S06.E19: The Dragon

[formerlyfreedom]

Looking to expand his empire, Diaz and Laurel meet with The Quadrant, a coalition of mafia families who run national organized crime. Meanwhile, after Oliver’s recent decision, Felicity and Curtis double their efforts on building Helix Dynamics.

 

[Lady Calypso]

Well, then. That sucked.

[KenyaJ]

Nope. This episode doesn't even deserve my comments.

[apinknightmare]

I can't believe they wrote a whole episode to give Diaz a backstory and it turns out he was the victim of bullying who became a bully and only beats people who are weak. 

 

LOL, wait - yes I can.

[insomniadreams88]

Just ... no. 

[BkWurm1]

Even the Olicity was annoying.  Oliver was waaaaay too dismissive of Felicity being that upset.  And what she brings to the team.

And he solved the problem by treating her like the FREAKING 12 year old CHILD!!  I'm more pissed than I realized.  

Edited April 20, 2018 by BkWurm1

[mtlchick]

Dear Kirk Acevedo.  I can only use the "But I LOVED you in Band of Brothers!" card so many times until  it becomes useless.

 

Tonight, that card expired.  MY GOD, what the hell did we sit through?!   They killed off Michael Emerson to make Diaz the Big Bad why again?!

Edited April 20, 2018 by mtlchick

[calliope1975]

I don't know what that was, but it was not an episode of Arrow.

[ladylaw99]

Avoid this episode at all cost, I repeat do not watch this episode for your own sanity 

[Mellowyellow]

So not even a good Olicity kiss?

[BkWurm1]

Just now, Mellowyellow said:

So not even a good Olicity kiss?

I can't tell right now.  I'm too annoyed.  

[Primal Slayer]

This was the epitome of filler and not proper timing.

This wasn't a Diaz/Siren episode..it was a Diaz episode through and through. Siren was his body guard which idk what he would've done had she not come...he'd be screwed. 

I totally enjoyed Black Siren in this episode though, she was the saving grace. She served sass, wtf-ness, and truth. I dont know what Ken was talking about Siren fans not liking this episode...unless he meant the actual episode itself. 

We were 19 episodes to late, this is all the stuff that should've been building up to Diaz killing Cayden who should've been part of this Quadrant. I have no problem getting a villain centric episode but I expected to get a Team-Villain episode when it was like 5 of em. 

All this did was make me pitty Diaz and not in the good way.

[tennisgurl]

...what the hell did I just watch? Because it sure as hell wasn't an episode of Arrow! It was like watching a backdoor pilot for a show too terrible for anyone to ever even consider picking up! I was so bored, I feel like I just survived a day long wait at the DMV. 

I think we all deserve Beebo plush toys to cuddle as reward for suffering through that.

[JJ928]

I want to thank you all for your sacrifice. I will totally avoid this episode.

[insomniadreams88]

We deserved better from Oliver's only scene in the entire episode.

We deserved better from the 19th episode of a season.

We deserved better than this episode.

[Guest]

That was shit. The end. ?

[tennisgurl]

In the immortal words of Grunkle Stan:

"Welp, that just put me 40 minutes closer to death." 

[Primal Slayer]

Just now, tennisgurl said:

In the immortal words of Grunkle Stan:

"Welp, that just put me 40 minutes closer to death." 

In the immortal words of Naya Rivera

[apinknightmare]

8 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Even the Olicity was annoying.  Oliver was waaaaay to dismissive of Felicity being that upset.  And what she brings to the team.

It was annoying but this show has beaten me out of being really annoyed since the usual go-to for getting Oliver to be alone and lonely this time of year is for him to inexplicably push everyone away. It's like, this sucks but at least it's a different kind of suck!

[Mrs. de Winter]

So he was bullied and that made him a killer.   Was this the special episode of the season?  Bullying is the issue they are addressing?  Like the gun episode from last season?  And that is why it sucked so, so bad? 

WTH was the point of this torture?  

But more importantly - Die, Curtis, Die.  Die painful, die slow, just die.  I will never forgive this show for thinking Felicity needed to apologize to this waste of space character.  

Please tell me these writers have new things to do next season.  

[Guest]

I do think this episode would've been more appropriate earlier in the season with regards to fleshing out Diaz but it still would've been one of the worst episodes this show has ever done.

[insomniadreams88]

Also, shut up, Curtis.

And HOW DARE THEY HAVE FELICITY APOLOGIZE!

[Mary0360]

10 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

So not even a good Olicity kiss?

[insomniadreams88]

The Olicity scene actually annoys me more the second time. Oliver, stop being stupid. 

[Lady Calypso]

6 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

The Olicity scene actually annoys me more the second time. Oliver, stop being stupid. 

Everyone was stupid this episode. Felicity, stop being stupid when it comes to Curtis.

[tennisgurl]

Oh yeah, there was more to this episode besides boredom. There was annoyance! Although, honestly at least the annoyance broke up the mind melting boredom. 

Speaking of mind melting, so NOW BS has standards? Is she really listening to Quentin's crazy talk about becoming his Laurel substitute? Or, is it that beating some guy up and setting people on fire just TOO FAR, as opposed to turning an unarmed mans brains into mush in front of his girlfriend, or killing multiple innocent people? That was all fun and happy times, but this? I guess this is too far? What? 

Also, why was Oliver so chill about Felicity being upset about him being in danger? It seemed OOC for him to be so cavalier about her very real fears, and he seemed very condescending about it. If you insist on this stupid solo act, at least let her wear an earpiece so she knows your not dead! Speaking of, kind of weird having a whole episode without Oliver in it except for the last five minutes! Oh yeah, THATS what the fans want!

Oh my God SHUT UP CURTIS! And Felicity shouldn't have to analogize to him for one second! And he doesn't say sorry? Even after he turned on her, told her to fuck off every time she tried to reach out, shut off her friends arm, and acted like he and his buddies were the victims when his BFF came at her husband with an ax? No apology? Fuck off Curtis. 

[way2interested]

It at least partially looked like they framed it as Felicity just being desperate for a friend rather than actually caring about forgiveness, but it's just annoying since they only have it that way because Felicity needed someone to talk to in the episode about her worries about Oliver and Oliver and Diggle were not options (from also their own doing) and they need to fumble with a reason that Curtis and Felicity would be in a scene together. The least they could have done though is have Curtis apologize back and recognize that.

Edited April 20, 2018 by way2interested

[Primal Slayer]

To me, it was clear that Vince was the turning point that made Siren question her ways (along with Quentin), something that she once enjoyed and reveled in just wasn't good anymore. I think she still enjoys chaos but isn't interested in torture or has the thrill of the kill anymore.

[Trisha]

38 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Even the Olicity was annoying.  Oliver was waaaaay to dismissive of Felicity being that upset.  And what she brings to the team.

And he solved the problem by treating her like the FREAKING 12 year old CHILD!!  I'm more pissed than I realized.

Yup. She’s in tears and he’s smirking at her and placating her? I half expected him to pat her on the head. (Except no, because that would require him to touch her. Seriously, did he keep his hands in his pockets during the kiss until the end when she hugged him? It’s getting so weird!)

Edited April 20, 2018 by Trisha

[Guest]

This was me when Felicity apologized to Curtis and he stood there completely silent and then had the audacity to enjoy John quitting the team and Oliver being by himself. I WANT CURTIS DEAD. 

Edited April 20, 2018 by Guest

[apinknightmare]

5 minutes ago, Trisha said:

(Except no, because that would require him to touch her. Seriously, did he keep his hands in his pockets during the kiss until the end when she hugged him? It’s getting so weird!)

He put his arms around her for the first hug, he was holding onto her hand as she backed away from him. He took his hands out of his pockets during the kiss and was reaching for her when she pulled away to hug him. 

[BkWurm1]

37 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

The Olicity scene actually annoys me more the second time. Oliver, stop being stupid. 

Yeah, the first time through I was just trying to enjoy it but while it felt off, it was over so fast.  Then I watched again and the second time I was so annoyed at where the writing has brought us, to a moment that makes Oliver seem so incredibly oblivious about her very valid concerns.  I was willing to put up with him making a dumb ass choice but I thought he'd not try to gaslight Felicity into thinking she was being irrational.  

How can he deny that Felicity as his eyes and ears has so many more options to help than when she's watching it on a tv screen after the fact?  And he hadn't even called her to let her know, yeah hey, there was this big explosion that drew a big crowd and a bunch of people saw me there, I'm fine.  Instead, he's baffled she was worried, almost laughs she thinks she would be able to be less helpless in the Bunker watching over him and then gives her a promise meant to end a very complex conversation.  I don't like this dynamic one bit.  

And the thing that has me REALLY worried is how long it might actually drag on.  

11 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

He put his arms around her for the first hug, he was holding onto her hand as she backed away from him. He took his hands out of his pockets during the kiss and was reaching for her when she pulled away to hug him. 

Yeah, touching her isn't the problem.  Remembering the characterization of Oliver Queen and how much he valued Overwatch is.  

Edited April 20, 2018 by BkWurm1

[Guest]

The Olicity scene didn't annoy me as much as others here mainly because it felt more shoehorned in for foreshadowing reasons when he

Spoiler

doesn't come back at the end of the season. 

[BkWurm1]

19 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

This was me when Felicity apologized to Curtis and he stood there completely silent and then had the audacity to enjoy John quitting the team and Oliver being by himself. I WANT CURTIS DEAD. 

I really thought that Curtis would say SOMETHING at least.  Some kind of half hearted thing but instead he smugly stands there thinking he's the victim 

2 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

The Olicity scene didn't annoy me as much as others here mainly because it felt more shoehorned in for foreshadowing reasons when he

  Reveal hidden contents

doesn't come back at the end of the season. 

I get the foreshadowing but that's half why it upsets me.  Because he is being super condescending and dismissive.  Is that the lesson Oliver must learn?  I thought he figured out the I  might die any time back the first day on the island.  

[Guest]

1 minute ago, BkWurm1 said:

I really thought that Curtis would say SOMETHING at least.  Some kind of half hearted thing but instead he smugly stands there thinking he's the victim 

Yep. It just proves they're never gonna apologize. Ever. The writers really do think the newbies are the ones in the right here. I'm just...I'm at a loss.

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

The Olicity scene didn't annoy me as much as others here mainly because it felt more shoehorned in for foreshadowing reasons when he

  Hide contents

doesn't come back at the end of the season. 

Yeah, it's whatever for me. I don't think for a second that Oliver would usually dismiss this (if for no other reason than going it alone isn't strategically smart at all!) or that Felicity would just stand around looking at the news and not finding a way to help him whether he wanted it or not by hardwiring something into his suit that he couldn't turn off. It's just their turn to have the plots. 

[Mary0360]

1 minute ago, Angel12d said:

The Olicity scene didn't annoy me as much as others here mainly because it felt more shoehorned in for foreshadowing reasons when he

  Reveal hidden contents

doesn't come back at the end of the season. 

Yep. Exactly. It's about them (the writers) getting from point A to B. They are trying unsubtly to set up future storylines for both Felicity and Oliver. I don't think it has anything to do with a change in dynamic or characterisation. It's just in putting plot over characters the characters were written as a let down in a pretty let down of an episode.

[BkWurm1]

55 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

It was annoying but this show has beaten me out of being really annoyed since the usual go-to for getting Oliver to be alone and lonely this time of year is for him to inexplicably push everyone away. It's like, this sucks but at least it's a different kind of suck!

I've really enjoyed not being annoyed at Oliver this season.  It was fun while it lasted.  I mean, it's a measured annoyance. It's no where near the levels of the Noobs but I kind of feel this is the first time Oliver hasn't valued Felicity professionally. And that sucks. 

Edited April 20, 2018 by BkWurm1

[KenyaJ]

5 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

The Olicity scene didn't annoy me as much as others here mainly because it felt more shoehorned in for foreshadowing reasons when he

  Reveal hidden contents

doesn't come back at the end of the season. 

Yeah, same. Also, I feel like

Oliver's going to get a taste of his own medicine when he freaks out about Felicity putting herself in harm's way in 622.

[Trisha]

So IGN gave this a glowing review and EW gave it the same grade they gave last week’s. I give up. 

[BkWurm1]

It's mixed over on Reddit.  I'd say 60/40 love it or think it was not bad.  40 agreed it was awful or at least dull.  

[Soulfire]

.

 

 

[Belinea]

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

I really thought that Curtis would say SOMETHING at least.  Some kind of half hearted thing but instead he smugly stands there thinking he's the victim 

I really can't even bring myself to like him anymore. He and Rene can both go far, far away. He can keep his awful attitude to himself. How can any writer think that this is making people care about the newbies?  Why on earth is Felicity the only one to apologize?

Their decision to bend the characters out of shape so that the plot can move forward is almost painful to watch. Oliver really didn't seem to care much about Felicity's fear. Even though at the beginning of the season he was all like 'We are in this together, have been from the start'. 

Also, I love Felicity, but I didn't like the writing choices for her tonight. 

Was there anything else that one had to watch, other than Oliver's cameo?

1 hour ago, Trisha said:

So IGN gave this a glowing review and EW gave it the same grade they gave last week’s. I give up. 

Well, of course they did. 

Edited April 20, 2018 by Belinea

[KillahBee007]

So, I’m glad I skipped this one. Whoo boy. 

[thuganomics85]

Holy shit, could this possibly be the worst of episode of Arrow ever?  If not, it has to be in the Bottom Five at least.

Seriously, I usually try to not let bad material effect how I view an actor, but this show is actually making me dislike Kirk Acevedo, because it really feels like someone in the writers' room is a huge fan of him, and believe he and the character are better then they actually are?  Of all of the villains to get an episode like this, they give it to him?  Not Malcolm, Slade, or Chase?  Hell, even a Cayden-centric one would have been miles better since Michael Emerson is a treasure.  But 40+ minutes of some dude who became evil since he was bullied at an orphanage, so he enacts his grand plan of "getting a seat at the table" of some low-rent mafia organization, mainly because no one can shoot for shit, apparently. Or even make the effort.  Really, after he downed the dad, everyone should have opened fire right then and there.  But I guess they were just that enthralled by his massive charisma and intensity?  What the fuck ever! 

To be fair, I guess the lasting implication is that this is likely going to be why the Black Siren ends up turning on him, since she clearly seemed unnerved by him at the end. But that is not enough to suffer through this dud.  I literally zoned out at one point and wasn't even pay attention.  It was during that long-ass car sequence, which I think was suppose to be how Diaz and control "the Dragon" or something, but I couldn't tell y'all.  It was like I was watching a really bad season of True Detective.

Sadly, the breaks from this slog weren't much better, since it involved poor Felicity a) putting up with Curtis still trying to guilt-trip her and Team Arrow about Rene (he came at Oliver with an AXE.  YOU.  FUCKING.  ASSHOLE!!!!!!) and b) having stupid Oliver (Stephen Amell gets a cameo!  On his own show!!!!) dismiss her fears and concerns, and basically acting like an uncaring, condescending jerk.  So dumb.

Pretty much everyone else got to have a break at least.  I hope David Ramsey enjoyed his week off.

If they keep this up, I might actually be glad if Barry fucked up the timeline again in order to save this show and his (the Legends will be save up in their Waverider!)  This has become a pretty brutal year for the D.C. shows.

[way2interested]

I guess unpopular opinion then, since I actually really liked the Olicity scene at the end. It's the only time I genuinely felt something in the episode, and I liked that Felicity got to express what she was feeling. And I didn't necessarily see Oliver as being completely dismissive or anything as much as just trying to be as naively confident at the idea of separating his domestic life and his crime-fighting life for Felicity's sake. (Still super dumb for not telling her whether he's, you know, alive or not, but that's the part I chalked up to plot having to plot)

[JamieLynn832002]

This week on Mumbles: The 3D-Printing Dragon Arrow, I character I don't care about said things I couldn't understand while proving his mettle as the boringest bore who ever bored the evilest evil who ever eviled and for a minute I even got to see the Green Arrow.

 

Good God, what was that? I'm not even sure an episode this devoted to the villain would have worked with the more compelling villains but with Diaz, it was torture.

[Hiveminder]

Wait. They had Felicity apologize to Curtis? What, did they think people loved it when Felicity apologized to Oliver last year so much that they just had to have her do it again, but this time to someone way more smug, unlikeable and completely completely unapologetic himself?  Maybe next week she can apologize to Rene for being annoyed when he calls her blondie. 

[BkWurm1]

9 hours ago, Mary0360 said:

Yep. Exactly. It's about them (the writers) getting from point A to B. They are trying unsubtly to set up future storylines for both Felicity and Oliver. I don't think it has anything to do with a change in dynamic or characterisation. It's just in putting plot over characters the characters were written as a let down in a pretty let down of an episode.

2

I think I just reached my breaking point for it this week.   

9 hours ago, KenyaJ said:

Yeah, same. Also, I feel like

  Reveal hidden contents

Oliver's going to get a taste of his own medicine when he freaks out about Felicity putting herself in harm's way in 622.

Unless it just convinces him he's right to go it alone even more.  

7 hours ago, Belinea said:

I really can't even bring myself to like him anymore. He and Rene can both go far, far away. He can keep his awful attitude to himself. How can any writer think that this is making people care about the newbies?  Why on earth is Felicity the only one to apologize?

Their decision to bend the characters out of shape so that the plot can move forward is almost painful to watch. Oliver really didn't seem to care much about Felicity's fear. Even though at the beginning of the season he was all like 'We are in this together, have been from the start'. 

Also, I love Felicity, but I didn't like the writing choices for her tonight. 

Was there anything else that one had to watch, other than Oliver's cameo?

Well, of course they did. 

 

1

I do truly get why Felicity would offer the kind of apology she did.  She didn't say her team shouldn't have done what they did but she did express regret for the conflict and I can find that genuine and in character and I also agree that she clearly just needed to bury herself in work and the only work she had was the company which she'd tried to protect as something outside of the conflict.  All that made sense, even her talking to Curtis since her only other alternative would be someone from another show and yes, that is how actual friendships work, but we have to operate in the confines of Arrow for the episode.  

But why on earth was their no concession of any kind from Curtis?  The closest he gets is saying it had been a really long time since they'd gotten together to work on their company.  This would have been the perfect moment to make Curtis sympathetic to the audience again or at least not further pile on the audience hate.  They'd already established him showing up and being willing to work on the company so why couldn't Curtis have expressed a similar general I'm sad the team conflict has also affected their friendship.  It would have been SOMETHING and Curtis could still hold onto his belief his team was in the right without another potshot.  It's a writing choice I can't make sense of unless they want to keep adding to the NTA hate but I can't figure out the angle to that.  

And the alternative that they think the newbs are right still doesn't keep the audience from finding them insufferable and by the time this was written it HAD to be a well-known fact, so if the newbs are the ones they want us to back, why would they make sure we still wanted to use Curtis as a punching bag?  It's just so damn mind-boggling. 

 I almost wonder if there is some kind of unconscious gender bias (even with a female writer) where it's ok for a woman to express regret for something she's really not at fault for but the male character can't?  I'd call it a stretch normally since Oliver apologizes for lots of stuff not really his fault but I'm grasping at straws for some sort of explanation.  

Edited April 20, 2018 by BkWurm1

[jay741982]

I've actually seen a few people in Comments section of the review of this Episode on Tvline.com say this episode was fantastic!!?? What the fuck? What are they watching? Saying BS like Dragon is so much more terrifying now LOL. Someone actually said it was better than Arrow has been lately SMH