S06.E05: The Great Patriotic War

[Bannon]

The entire "Let's frame and kidnap a CIA officer's child, in order to blackmail the CIA officer"  plan  is just ridiculous.

[Umbelina]

The question asked was if the number of Russian dead was exaggerated.  No, it wasn't.

Of course ALL forces combined to win against Germany and it's collaborators.  In bodies though?  Russia lost BY far, the most, and in horrific circumstances.  Hitler invading Russia is widely considered to be his greatest tactical error, Hitler refusing to not give up on Stalingrad's capture?  Ruined his army, his finances, his equipment, and is widely believed now, in the cool light of day, to be the thing that finally broke the Third Reich's back.

So Claudia talking about the Great Patriotic War was not exaggeration, and Elizabeth talking about Russia's part in the war being ignored completely by history school books?  Is true, or is in my case certainly.  I'm glad if History books have been updated and include Russian losses and contributions to the end of the war, they weren't when I went to school  The USSR was "the big bad" and nothing positive was ever said about it.

Which is another reason I don't buy Paige's conversion to the Soviet Cause...

Stalin indeed caused many deaths on his own, from believing in his treaty with Germany, they were never allies, but they did sign a non-aggression pact promising not to invade each other, to his shooting down of Russian soldiers who were captured or surrendered, or ran, to the Gulags and prisoner army units that were sent on suicide missions.  When Russian soldier survivors were found in German prison camps, Russians often shot them, or sent them to Gulags to eventually probably die.

All of that contributed to Russia's massive loss of people, but the biggest contributor was Hitler attacking them, relentlessly. 

It's true that they lost far more people than any other country in that terrible time. 

[lavenderblue]

Delurking from this forum because for every Paige moment that has made me desperately hope we're meant to take the show itself at face value and disregard any showrunner or actor comments about Paige the superspy...nothing has flummoxed me quite so much as Paige laughing at the knowledge that Claudia traded sexual favors for food. So funny. Desperate starvation is so funny!!!! I'm sure if Elizabeth had opened up about whatever was entailed by her version of spy sex school, and the rape, Paige would half laugh and half frown and say wow, Mom, must've been weird to have to sleep with all those uggos.

Her second worst moment for me, in many tonight, came in her recounting of the bar fight, very much making herself sound more at risk and thus more at need of lashing out. She was not fighting off two guys, and I'm not sure how big a threat the jerk actually was -- not like we had much time to see what would've happened had she not immediately gone into fight mode.

I very nearly cheered when Philip essentially committed treason and I hope next week we get a whole lot more of both him and Oleg and a lot less of the trio of smug Soviet grrl power, and if that drinking scene was meant to be enjoyable in any respect, they'd have done better not to place it smack in the middle of screaming reminders that Elizabeth slaughtered two essentially harmless parents and tried to get a college student hooked up with illegal drugs, kidnapped and held hostage.

Edited April 26, 2018 by lavenderblue

[jjj]

2 minutes ago, Bannon said:

The entire "Let's frame and kidnap a CIA officer's child, in order to blackmail the CIA officer"  plan  is just ridiculous.

Why the F did they even need Philip for this?  They have hordes of spies who could abduct Kimmie in Greece and take her to Bulgaria.  Philip even could have written their plane/train tickets. 

[CaliCheeseSucks]

1 minute ago, jjj said:

Why the F did they even need Philip for this?  They have hordes of spies who could abduct Kimmie in Greece and take her to Bulgaria.  Philip even could have written their plane/train tickets. 

And for this, they brought Kimmie back, asked us to believe Phillip continued to tape and retrieve tapes from her father's briefcase while she was going to and from Ann Arbor from Washington, D.C. for three years, and attempted to sell us on a Thanksgiving weekend jaunt to Greece. It's so ham-handed, it would be funny if it didn't represent such a spectacularly bad storytelling design.

[Umbelina]

4 minutes ago, jjj said:

Why the F did they even need Philip for this?  They have hordes of spies who could abduct Kimmie in Greece and take her to Bulgaria.  Philip even could have written their plane/train tickets. 

That was Elizabeth's plan, right? 

She would go willingly with Philip, and no, I don't think they have a hoards of spies that Kimmie would trust and not make a fuss about, but they certainly would have regular KGB kidnap squads, like Gaad's.

Yes, it was stupid, but in that stupidity, Philip would have been the best choice.

Edited April 26, 2018 by Umbelina

[NitneLiun]

9 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Stalin indeed caused many deaths on his own, from believing in his treaty with Germany, they were never allies, but they did sign a non-aggression pact promising not to invade each other, .....

The pact may have technically been a non-aggression pact, but I'd say they became allies when they decided to invade Poland and carve it up. That's the kind of thing BFF's do.

[jjj]

2 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

That was Elizabeth's plan, right? 

She would go willingly with Philip, and no, I don't think they have a hoards of spies that Kimmie would trust and not make a fuss about, but they certainly would have regular KGB kidnap squads, like Gaad's.

Yes, it was stupid, but in that stupidity, Philip would have been the best choice.

Except there are about 50 other ways to get her to Bulgaria without blowing "Jim's" cover.  They would have had to kill her, or she would have provided a *very* detailed description of Philip to the CIA/FBI.  And bingo, he basically is the same sketch as Martha's husband. 

[Erin9]

19 minutes ago, Bannon said:

The entire "Let's frame and kidnap a CIA officer's child, in order to blackmail the CIA officer"  plan  is just ridiculous.

But it was supposed to be. Elizabeth was desperate. That was one of many reasons Philip did what he wanted in the end. And he didn’t want to destroy Kimmie further. And - he and Elizabeth don’t have the same agenda at all anymore. They don’t see the future for their homeland, family or the world the same way. 

[tennisgurl]

I just dont get Paige. I still love a lot of things about this show, but Paige is just inexplicable at this point. I used to like her, and I dont find her poorly acted, but she really drags the show down. We get all these super intense spy hijinks and complicated character motivations and ideologies, and then you have Paige. Paige, at this point, is basically just an empty vessel for Claudia and Elizabeth. She comes off not as young, but as super stupid, and willing to just buy whatever people with a very obvious bias tells them, without question. And this week was even more ridiculous. I thought it was stupid when she acted all shocked that spy's sometimes used sex appeal in their job (GASP!) but now, she`s shocked to discover that people had a hard time in WWII? Like, congrats Paige, I have an announcement from my old friend Colonel No Shit. He says...NO FREAKING SHIT! 

This show would be so much better if they spend more time on other, better characters, instead of Paige. At best, Paige just wants moms attention. At worst, Paige is a brainless idiot who will end up getting herself or others killed, and is basically a blank slate who will do whatever people ask if they make some soup for her. Not exactly a compelling character. Especially for a show that prides itself on its characters complexity. 

I can only assume that Elizabeth's plans are getting worse, because she`s getting desperate. That would certainly make sense. She is running herself ragged, her world is crashing down around her, and her double life is starting to get mixed up. 

Edited April 26, 2018 by tennisgurl

[Bannon]

12 minutes ago, Erin9 said:

But it was supposed to be. Elizabeth was desperate. That was one of many reasons Philip did what he wanted in the end. And he didn’t want to destroy Kimmie further. And - he and Elizabeth don’t have the same agenda at all anymore. They don’t see the future for their homeland, family or the world the same way. 

I'm sorry, but being desperate doesn't entail a hardened professional, like Liz, suddenly developing a single digit I.Q.. 

With the exception of a disgusted Phil telling his daughter to grow the eff up, via a one sided sparring match, every element of this episode irritated the hell out of me.

Edited April 26, 2018 by Bannon

[anonymiss]

2 hours ago, jjj said:

So, Elizabeth still has a tiny molecule of soul left; was it the painter that made her realize this, and not massacre the child?

What would have happened if the kid had run into the room mid-murders? It gave me flashbacks to Black Mirror's "Crocodile" episode.

I hope that wasn't Kimmie's first time because now she'll forever wonder if she was that bad in bed.

Paige was so cocky after sucker punching two guys who weren't about to hit a girl.

[Erin9]

5 minutes ago, Bannon said:

I'm sorry, but being desperate doesn't entail a hardened professional, like Liz, suddenly developing a single digit I.Q.. 

With the exception of a disgusted Phil telling his daughter to grow the eff up, via a one sided sparring match, every element of this episode irritated the hell out of me.

She’s desperate. Exhausted. At the end of her rope. And she’s stretched entirely too thin. And everything she’s trying has been failing. Not to mention the body count she’s racking up as things keep going wrong. 

I don’t find it at all surprising that her plans are terrible at this point. Of course they are. 

But I thought this episode had a lot of interesting elements too.... 

I love the tie in between being reminded of Oleg doing what he thought was more important years ago, and Philip doing what he thought was more important with Kimmie.

They’re so much alike. 

[jjj]

18 minutes ago, anonymiss said:

What would have happened if the kid had run into the room mid-murders? It gave me flashbacks to Black Mirror's "Crocodile" episode.

I hope that wasn't Kimmie's first time because now she'll forever wonder if she was that bad in bed.

The reason Elizabeth was so quiet leaving was so the child would not see her-- if he saw her, she would have killed him.  Same with Sofia.  She did not go there to kill Sofia -- she had to.

Not Kimmie's first time -- she got around in high school.  

[Bannon]

Beyond being irritated, the way this show treats violence is now actually revolting to me. Not because they do a decent job of showing the immediate ugliness of it, as it is happening. That's the way I prefer seeing violence portrayed. What causes me revulsion is that these writers have fully descended to the level (to some degree, they have always been guilty of this) where they have a extremely high level of violence in their storytelling, but the logical outcome of that violence is completely missing. That is grotesque, in a show that is supposed to he grounded in history. 

Liz has now been engaged in an extended episode of mass murder, and there is no response from the world surrounding Liz. Her daughter is completely oblivious to the obvious connections between her mother, and a series of murders that would be all over the news. The FBI, in the midst of this mass murder spree with obvious espionage connections, keeps two defectors in an urban apartment with a fire escape (!!!) so as to allow Liz easy admission to her latest  stab-o-rama. It is offensive to me to treat violence, in the kind of show this purports to be, in this manner. I really, really, hate it. 

14 minutes ago, Erin9 said:

She’s desperate. Exhausted. At the end of her rope. And she’s stretched entirely too thin. And everything she’s trying has been failing. Not to mention the body count she’s racking up as things keep going wrong. 

I don’t find it at all surprising that her plans are terrible at this point. Of course they are. 

But I thought this episode had a lot of interesting elements too.... 

I love the tie in between being reminded of Oleg doing what he thought was more important years ago, and Philip doing what he thought was more important with Kimmie.

They’re so much alike. 

Agents don't cook up plans this without consultation. There is a reason why this ridiculous crap never happened during the Cold War. The real people involved weren't morons.

[Umbelina]

She's an officer, not an agent.  Martha was an agent.  Agents are what Intelligence Officers use.

I think she's pretty much alone in the "sabotage and get rid of Gorbachev" plan, it's not like she can ask for assistance.

[Bannon]

Even before we get to the terrible way violence is now portrayed on the show, it has to be noted how ridiculous it is that Liz, in the midst of operations with truly gigantic strategic implications, is also being asked to find time to whack an idiot hockey player and his wife. Fer' the luv of Julius and Ethel Rosenberg, that's stupid writing.

7 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

She's an officer, not an agent.  Martha was an agent.  Agents are what Intelligence Officers use.

I think she's pretty much alone in the "sabotage and get rid of Gorbachev" plan, it's not like she can ask for assistance.

She sure as hell can't arrange for Kimmy to be framed and held hostage in Bulgaria, without a helluva lot of assistance, by people with enough functioning synapses to say "That's the dumbest idea I've ever heard of. We aren't going to do that".

[Umbelina]

Yes, the Residentura would take care of average kills.  Elizabeth passing as an American had nothing to do with that kill, so that?  Was complete bullshit.

Not as much bullshit as having NO guards on the Teacups though.  Even if the FBI is stretched incredibly thin?  They could and would find someone for that, especially after he walked out to a local store.

[Bannon]

10 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Yes, the Residentura would take care of average kills.  Elizabeth passing as an American had nothing to do with that kill, so that?  Was complete bullshit.

Not as much bullshit as having NO guards on the Teacups though.  Even if the FBI is stretched incredibly thin?  They could and would find someone for that, especially after he walked out to a local store.

Hell, the FBI selecting that residence, for a safe house, is just idiotic. As is having an agent posted on the sidewalk, who may as well be wearing one of those windbreakers with "FBI" emblazoned on it.  

Like I said earlier, if the writers don't give a shit, why should the audience?

Edited April 26, 2018 by Bannon

[Shriekingeel]

Rewatching. The Oleg-Tatiana scene is my favorite in the episode. It’s intense and well-acted. 

 

One thing that pro-Soviet sources don’t like to discuss is how the methods Stalin and his generals fought the war contributed to the enormous casualty totals, such as the frequent tactical use of human-wave assaults on fortified positions.  Solzhenitsyn also says that many of the deaths included in wartime casualty totals were those in the vast prisoner population in the Gulag camps. In the privation of the war years, “Just as many died in the camps as at the front”.

[NitneLiun]

If the writing had been this bad halfway through the first season, I would have stopped watching. Unfortunately, I'm invested now and hanging around only to see who dies and who doesn't and whether their deaths will be gory. 

[Bannon]

13 minutes ago, Shriekingeel said:

Rewatching. The Oleg-Tatiana scene is my favorite in the episode. It’s intense and well-acted. 

 

One thing that pro-Soviet sources don’t like to discuss is how the methods Stalin and his generals fought the war contributed to the enormous casualty totals, such as the frequent tactical use of human-wave assaults on fortified positions.  Solzhenitsyn also says that many of the deaths included in wartime casualty totals were those in the vast prisoner population in the Gulag camps. In the privation of the war years, “Just as many died in the camps as at the front”.

Yes, Oleg and Tatiana was a good scene. Counterbalanced by Renee"s, which was either mystifyingly pointless, or mystifyingly bad, depending on how the story plays out.

[izabella]

The biggest laugh this episode for me was Elizabeth telling Philip that she and Claudia showed Paige the WWII movie, and that Elizabeth thinks Paige really "got it."  No, E.  Paige gets nothing, absolutely nothing, about what it means for 27 million Russian people to die in a war.  She knows nothing of starvation and being forced to have sex for food, or eating rats because there was nothing else.  She understands nothing about every town and village and building being bombed and in ruins.  She understands nothing of people freezing to death during the winter war years.  And she understands nothing of Claudia's whole family being killed.  She has no frame of reference to "get it."

Paige is playing at being a spy while having no depth of understanding about any of it, and without the maturity or life experience to even begin to truly understand any of it.  She and Elizabeth have so many deep, unresolved issues.  That's the only thing about spy training that has real meaning for Paige.  She did like flexing her muscles, though!  She was so flippant and cocky about it that I enjoyed Phillip showing her how she is overestimating her skills.  Give it some thought, Paige. 

Kimmie and Paige are roughly the same age, right?  I'm glad Phillip ultimately couldn't go through with the stupid kidnapping and Bulgarian prison plot, but I wish he'd come to that decision before crossing his own boundaries and having sex with her.  He'll be beating himself up for that, while Elizabeth beats him up for backing out of her plot.

[MisterBluxom]

@Erin9

Nice post Erin. After reading your post I got a very strong sensation that there is big trouble on the horizon for one or more of the Jennings family.

I especially resonated with your "Elizabeth's plan was bad and reeked of desperation". That was right on! So very accurate. That gave me a kind of vision that something terrible is going to happen to one of the Jennings before this season is over.

Actually, if something terrible must happen to one of the Jennings, I would prefer that it happen to Claudia. I know she is not a Jennings. But I've never cared for her character and in a way, I'm sorry to say this because it's never nice to wish bad things happen to anyone but ... well ... Oh Hell! I'm sure you get my meaning.

 

By the way. When discussing the Jennings, what the Hockey Puck is up with Henry? Or at least the actor who plays him? Surely there is something bizarre going on.

Is the show runner keeping him out of the line of sight to prepare us for Henry meeting some horrible and gory end?

Or is the actor who plays him having some kind of problem in his real life that is preventing him from participating?

I get a whiff of something like Suzanne Sommers in the last season of Three's Company. Or maybe that really sad kid from Two and a Half Men. Remember that kid? He just kind of disappeared.

Does anyone know why they are ostracizing the Henry character? That is really strange.

Edited April 26, 2018 by MissBluxom

[MisterBluxom]

3 hours ago, Bannon said:

Also, Holly Taylor is a terrible actor, even allowing for the bad writing.

Heh! Heh! Heh!

I must say that it warms my heart to see you hanging on to your opinion about Holly Taylor. I have to admire someone who develops an opinion and just sticks to it for six years. I'm not being sarcastic here. I really mean it.

On the other hand, I really loved the scene tonight where she kicked ass fighting those two buffoons.  If more women got martial arts training and reacted the same way to men putting their hands on them, I'm betting there would be far fewer men who mouth off with stupid shit directed at ladies. They most especially have no right to put their hands on someone else - especially a lady.  That was one of my favorite scenes of this entire show.

But you are right. She really isn't any good at acting and I'm proud to let you carry the torch in the Holly Taylor Talent Hunt.  Giggle.

Edited April 26, 2018 by MissBluxom

[Umbelina]

How did Elizabeth know the right apartment?  Because yeah, no one followed Stan into that LARGE building to find out which door he went to.

Also, she uses a knife to kill two people, yet there is not a drop of blood on her.  WTF show?

[BingeyKohan]

Wow this board has really turned on The Americans! The killings made it difficult to watch but I thought this was the best episode this season so far. If it feels like somewhat of a different show from prior seasons think it’s meant to. I can be bored by Paige, too, but I liked the fire she showed leaving the garage after the sparring session. And I loved Philip’s closing phone call with Kimmie. When he warned her not to go to a Communist country with anyone while traveling I had the same feeling as when he took ‘Clark’s’ wig off for Martha. It struck me that we’ve seen him get close to two marks and in some way reveal himself to them but that has happened zero times with Elizabeth. 

What we need next is a real sense of actual FBI investigation and dot connecting, not just a convo in the sound proof room where that’s all happened off-screen. That I would complain about. (And I do agree they should have established how E knew which apartment window to crawl through.)

[EtheltoTillie]

20 minutes ago, BingeyKohan said:

Wow this board has really turned on The Americans! The killings made it difficult to watch but I thought this was the best episode this season so far. If it feels like somewhat of a different show from prior seasons think it’s meant to. I can be bored by Paige, too, but I liked the fire she showed leaving the garage after the sparring session. And I loved Philip’s closing phone call with Kimmie. When he warned her not to go to a Communist country with anyone while traveling I had the same feeling as when he took ‘Clark’s’ wig off for Martha. It struck me that we’ve seen him get close to two marks and in some way reveal himself to them but that has happened zero times with Elizabeth. 

What we need next is a real sense of actual FBI investigation and dot connecting, not just a convo in the sound proof room where that’s all happened off-screen. That I would complain about. (And I do agree they should have established how E knew which apartment window to crawl through.)

I think everyone here actually loves the show so we're just exasperated. We're all in for the duration. 

Meanwhile, I did not think the Bulgaria plot was Liz's sole idea. I thought it was partly coming from Claudia. 

[Ina123]

The big irony would be that Renee gets a job at the FBI and sees the sketches of Phillip and Elizabeth (in disguise) on a bulletin board or on some wall and tells Stan, "Hey, that looks like P and E." Stan takes a long stare and then a light bulb appears over his head.

[Chaos Theory]

Well everyone had a pretty shitty night.

Nice knowing you Mr. and Mrs. Tea Cup.

Bye Kimmie at least you didn’t end up in a Bulgarian prison.  Philip’s consciences always surprises.  It was a nice ending for the Kimmie story though.  Kimmie was always a Mirror for the way Philip viewed Paige.  Stay in Greece.  Stay out of it and then come home.

I did like the bar scene with Paige beating the crap out of the drunk frat boys.  I didn’t really understand Elizabeth’s reaction.  She was more upset that Paige would blow her supposed cover then get hurt.  But I did really enjoy both scenes of what came after.  Both the “fight” scene with her father and the drinking scene with her mother and Claudia.

All in all the best episodes of the season. 

I know I am forgetting the Russian scenes but I keep forgetting their names.  I really liked them anyway.  I like that the Russians are back in play in a big way now.  Hi Russians whose names I keep forgetting but I like anyway.

Edited April 26, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[Ellaria]

6 hours ago, lavenderblue said:

Delurking from this forum because for every Paige moment that has made me desperately hope we're meant to take the show itself at face value and disregard any showrunner or actor comments about Paige the superspy...nothing has flummoxed me quite so much as Paige laughing at the knowledge that Claudia traded sexual favors for food. 

5 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I just dont get Paige. I still love a lot of things about this show, but Paige is just inexplicable at this point...Paige, at this point, is basically just an empty vessel for Claudia and Elizabeth...

...This show would be so much better if they spend more time on other, better characters, instead of Paige. At best, Paige just wants moms attention. At worst, Paige is a brainless idiot who will end up getting herself or others killed, and is basically a blank slate who will do whatever people ask if they make some soup for her. Not exactly a compelling character. Especially for a show that prides itself on its characters complexity. 

6 hours ago, Erin9 said:

 I don’t think Paige gets much of anything. I liked her snapping at Elizabeth. It was realistic that her lectures would wear thin. But I don’t think she truly gets how stupid she was drawing attention to herself like that...

...I’m not sure Paige could have sounded more clueless when she explained to Philip that unlike him she and Elizabeth are “into it.” Condescending too. Again- she has no idea what this life is. Not really. And she certainly has no idea why Philip really quit. 

Nice observations here. We are spending lots of time watching Paige "not get anything." My greatest objection is the lack of seriousness with which she treats her actions and her disregard for history and current events. ("Wait - Granny - you had sex with a soldier so you could get food. That's wild. Maybe I should try it.") It seems to get worse each week. Paige equates spy life with being a Powerpuff Girl. And yes, much of this is on Liz.

Frankly, I'm beginning to resent the time spent on this unsatisfactory story line when time could be devoted to more interesting characters. A strength of this show was the complexity of the characters- as @tennisgurl said - and that has been abandoned with Paige.

I assume that she will have a major impact on the end game. She probably already has: Philip's traitorous turn, Liz's desperation.

4 hours ago, Bannon said:

Hell, the FBI selecting that residence, for a safe house, is just idiotic. As is having an agent posted on the sidewalk, who may as well be wearing one of those windbreakers with "FBI" emblazoned on it.  

4 hours ago, Bannon said:

Counterbalanced by Renee"s, which was either mystifyingly pointless, or mystifyingly bad, depending on how the story plays out.

Yes. All in the service of the Liz Jennings Murder Machine. The writers are making it too easy. It was never like this in the past.

As far as Renee, I assume that we will next see her with some sort of office job at the FBI. She will somehow stumble onto the sketches of Phil/Liz in disguise and say, "Hey, Stan, don't these look like our neighbors." And before the chorus here tells me how unlikely this would actually be...I wouldn't put anything past the writing for this season.

PS- @Ina123 beat me to it. Great minds think alike!

Edited April 26, 2018 by Ellaria Sand

[SunnyBeBe]

I really hate to nit pick, but, I will briefly. Paige oh Paige.  You know, I wasn't a spy in training when I was her age, but, I had greater skills than her.  She admitted that she had drank alcohol at the bar.  Did she drive there? If stopped by police, it could give cause for arrest. You don't want that.  Plus, if being harassed, you don't just dart out of a business. Bad guys can follow. You go to bathroom with other people around, wait, leave when they aren't aware and can't follow you home or accost you.  Oh well.....I guess none of that applies if you are up for a fight.....so ridiculous.  It almost felt like a Foxy Brown moment! (Those of a certain age with get this.)  I never thought The Americans and jumped the shark would ever come from my lips in the same sentence. 

I can't imagine laughing and talking with my mom about sexual experiences.  EWWWW.....no way.  So bizarre. 

I agree about the crazy Kimmie plan.  HOW could it be over for Philp once Kimmie was released?  She would describe him and there would be a hunt for him.  Why didn't P confront E with this question? Makes no sense to me.  Except that, Kimmie would not be released alive.  They would kill her after they got the info. Maybe, that's what P finally concluded. 

Regina said she would have to take a pay cut to come to the FBI.  Can someone recall what she said her job was last episode?

Stan just shows up and gives P lots of business secrets......Isn't that against the rules? lol Recall how he told Henry that he didn't even talk to his wife about his job secrets. 

Edited April 26, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[JFParnell]

Tough, extended episode to watch in places -- and y'all know the places I mean!

Oh, Lizzie. We were 20 minutes in and no one had died yet. I thought maybe you were going to take a break from your murder spree. That was ugly, and I can't imagine a single viewer out there who is any longer (or was anyone ever?) rooting for her character to become anything but a corpse resting on a slab in a morgue. Elizabeth must be stopped. Yay, thank God for Stan! Oh, errm, wait .... he's still mooching beers off of Philip and telling about his horrible not so very good day and ... sharing classified information with his neighbor(!!!). (Seriously, did Stan just freely tell his BFF across the street that the two dead people Philip would likely read about in the morning's papers were actually Russian defectors whom the FBI was -- badly, it seems -- babysitting? Gotta think Stan is wandering outside the FBI operations manual on that one.)

LOVED the scene between Oleg and Tatiana. It ran longer than you might expect and was the better for it. Oleg elevates this show whenever he's onscreen. I started this season presuming he's going to die, and I hope I'm wrong.

Plenty of good movies from 1987 for Liz, Paige and Claudia to rent at the video store. Wall Street came out that year! They'd love that. Although it might not have been available on tape (tape, sheesh!) yet.

Paige is past the point of parody. (A lot of alliteration from anxious anchors placed in powerful posts.) Didn't buy the "Paige loses it and exposes her ninja skills" scene -- it was just too obviously a "written" scene and setup, to get us usomeplace the writers needed/wanted to go next. The drink being had with the new boy who magically appears by the pinball machine; the lout nearby who behaves like a lout right when the script needs him to do so.

Henry disappeared yet again. Maybe the phone in the hallway at school is broken.

When Philip was finally, er, umm, well, with Kimmie, the look on his face was so perfectly "I have hit absolute rock bottom here ..." Loved his choice at the end, though it will probably cost him his life.

I'm still watching, though show can try my patience. I might just be watching to make sure Elizabeth dies! lol

[SunnyBeBe]

It might have been an okay episode, but, it just caused me to realize that I no longer really care about the characters.  I used to like E, but, now....not so much.  And it's not really because the character is violent or cruel, but, because she's so dense.  And training Paige with Claudia meetings.....it's just beyond asinine.  I no longer really care about that family except for P.  

I've never held a high opinion of Stan, so.....now that he's giving Russians secret intel......makes me not care if goes out.  Don't know Renee. 

I respected Oleg's decision back when, but, I never cared for him, so,......I would hate for his parents to be jailed or killed. 

Claudia....I used to like her character, because she used to look out for P & E and seemed to bring stability. Now....she seems to have lost it.  IT's like she's semi-retired. Once again.  Just don't care what happens with her. 

[benteen]

6 hours ago, Bannon said:

I'm sorry, but being desperate doesn't entail a hardened professional, like Liz, suddenly developing a single digit I.Q.. 

With the exception of a disgusted Phil telling his daughter to grow the eff up, via a one sided sparring match, every element of this episode irritated the hell out of me.

What a shock, every element of the episode irritated you.

[Bannon]

1 hour ago, benteen said:

What a shock, every element of the episode irritated you.

Well, what I actually said was that there were two good scenes, and I have never been hesitant to praise those things in this show which I've found praiseworthy, mostly the acting. Acting can only go so far, however.

Hey, I've always said that I'll never tell somebody that they shouldn't like what they like. By the same token, if I think something is poorly done, I'm going to write that, and give my reasons why I believe it to be so.

Edited April 26, 2018 by Bannon
Too early in morning to structure a sentence.

[Shriekingeel]

The best thing about last night’s episode of #TheAmericans was the shot of Philip in the phone booth, with the American flag just out of focus behind him. The camera rotates around to put it right behind him—like a cartoon angel on his shoulder, whispering into his ear.

—Sonny Bunch on Twitter 

[Dev F]

5 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Yes, the Residentura would take care of average kills.  Elizabeth passing as an American had nothing to do with that kill, so that?  Was complete bullshit.

Yeah, but it's the same bullshit the show has always engaged in. Probably the most significant way the series has demanded that we suspend our disbelief (second only to the KGB's magic fucking telephone network) is that the Centre's most valuable and secret operatives are constantly doing things that would be left to those operatives' agents or to officers under official cover.

I wasn't bothered by the urgency of the Gennadi kill, though. If they're going to do it at all they need to do it now, before he's relocated and their one killer lead, Stan, becomes irrelevant.

1 hour ago, BingeyKohan said:

Wow this board has really turned on The Americans! The killings made it difficult to watch but I thought this was the best episode this season so far.

It's especially funny to me because elsewhere the episode is being praised pretty effusively -- overly so, in my opinion, since I found the episode to be a collection of great moments that all felt a little disjointed, held together by plot contrivances that were a little more convenient than usual. But to each his/her own.

[benteen]

After the last three episodes, The Americans bounces back with a really good show.

Tatiana's confrontation with Oleg was GREAT and definitely the highlight of the episode.  I was surprised that she was still at the same job because I had forgotten that he burned her mission with William.  Costa Ronin was great as always but the Very Cherny really brought it and her obsession with Oleg brings another element of danger to these events.  It's interesting that its the women who are on the side of the old way of doing things.  Tatiana, Claudia and Elizabeth.

You know how much of a monster Elizabeth is when honeypotting her husband isn't even close to the worst thing she did in this episode.  Good lord, her first instincts are to kill and ruin everything that she touches.  She's become like an old athlete still chasing the dream well after their time.  Yeah, Willie Mays last hit drove in the go ahead run for the Mets in the 1973 World Series but he was also falling down in the outfield that season as well.  That's kind of what Elizabeth is doing this season. 

I was hoping that by seducing Kimmie that Philip was trying to convince her to stay home with him for the Thanksgiving season, thus continuing to give him access to her father.  But no, he really was going to do Elizabeth's bidding and destroy another life.  I'm glad he came through at the end and warned Kimmie.  Elizabeth should be grateful too as her plan would likely have blown up in her face.

Immensely satisfied to see Philip put Paige "the great patriot" in her place.  It annoyed the hell out of me when she said that he didn't like to do what she and Elizabeth are doing now.  Don't compare yourself to your father, Paige...you will fail every time.

That asshole in the bar did get what he deserved but Paige is still an epic fail as a spy.

Terrific work from Miriam Shor as Erica once again.

The killing Gennadi and Sophia was so ill-advised.  Brutal scene but very well-done.

I think Gennadi was watching "Fishing with Orlando Wilson."  It was a show that used to run on TBS back in the 80s (maybe the 90s too).  I used to catch the end of it while waiting for wrestling to come out.  It had a memorable theme song.

Don't get me wrong...there's still some sloppiness here.  The relative lack of security around Gennadi's building for one and the murder spree that Elizabeth has gone got out of hand three episode ago.  But this was the first episode that I really was into and I hope a sign of things to come.

[GingerMarie]

Claudia was not drunk and we know Elizabeth was not.  She prides herself on being in control at all times, even when it means playing her daughter.  Elizabeth admitted that Paige was not cut out for this and Philip just drove the point home .  I am not sure why everyone thinks Paige should act any differently than she is.  She has always been the 'golden child', sensitive and insightful, selfish and always asking 'why me', if I pout long enough I will get my way.  Paige feels she is entitled.  Her parents, Claudia, Grabiel, Pastor Tim and the Centre have all played in to this notion that Paige is the one.  Paige really has nothing vested in the Cause.  Why should she, everything has been given to her.  I am not sure why we expect Paige to suddenly care about anything except Paige.  

[jjj]

The phone booth Philip called from -- reminded me of Martha calling from a phone booth like this right before she went underground.  I think it was a call to her parents? 

[Erin9]

4 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

@Erin9

Nice post Erin. After reading your post I got a very strong sensation that there is big trouble on the horizon for one or more of the Jennings family.

I especially resonated with your "Elizabeth's plan was bad and reeked of desperation". That was right on! So very accurate. That gave me a kind of vision that something terrible is going to happen to one of the Jennings before this season is over.

Actually, if something terrible must happen to one of the Jennings, I would prefer that it happen to Claudia. I know she is not a Jennings. But I've never cared for her character and in a way, I'm sorry to say this because it's never nice to wish bad things happen to anyone but ... well ... Oh Hell! I'm sure you get my meaning.

 

By the way. When discussing the Jennings, what the Hockey Puck is up with Henry? Or at least the actor who plays him? Surely there is something bizarre going on.

Is the show runner keeping him out of the line of sight to prepare us for Henry meeting some horrible and gory end?

Or is the actor who plays him having some kind of problem in his real life that is preventing him from participating?

I get a whiff of something like Suzanne Sommers in the last season of Three's Company. Or maybe that really sad kid from Two and a Half Men. Remember that kid? He just kind of disappeared.

Does anyone know why they are ostracizing the Henry character? That is really strange.

Thanks. :) 

I honestly think the writers haven’t known what to do with Henry. 

I wouldn’t mind seeing Claudia meet a bad end. But I’d like it come with a sense of failure. Total failure. Not like she is dying FOR anything.

There’s definitely a feeling of foreboding surrounding the Jennings, Oleg and to a lesser extent Claudia. 

[RedHawk]

7 hours ago, jjj said:

Do you suppose Mark Harmon is home watching "The Americans," and suddenly is amazed to see himself on the screen?  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx34pdYatng

I thought the exact same thing!

[MisterBluxom]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

<snip>

I can't imagine laughing and talking with my mom about sexual experiences.  EWWWW.....no way.  So bizarre. 

<snip>

Seems to me the reason for that scene was that the audience would love to know all about Elizabeth's sexual history.

I think that I could watch an entire episode containing nothing but Elizabeth revealing intimate personal details. I really love the Elizabeth character and I truly wish that I knew that character in my lonely life. Spending time talking with Elizabeth would be an enormously entertaining way to spend my time. Face it. Like her or hater her, she is still enormously interesting and entertaining.

I would just hope that she wouldn't knife me or anything like that. After all, she's a very dangerous lady.

[teddysmom]

4 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Also, she uses a knife to kill two people, yet there is not a drop of blood on her.  WTF show?

They had to cut back on blood budget for a couple episodes after the "brain explosion". FX isn't made of money!!! hee

May I suggest that instead of drinking olive oil (WTF), Paige just enjoy a 12 inch turkey sub from Subway prior to a night on the town. All that bread absorbs alcohol very well, and also fills you up so you're not eating crap at the bar, and no hangover. Now you eat it over the course of the late afternoon prior to your drinking but it works. 

Believe me. 

The three of them sitting around doing shots of vodka to see if olive oil coats your stomach. Come on.  First, she isn't doing shots. She's drinking mixed drinks or beer, up dancing, playing video games/pinball, not listening to her mom talk about couch sex. ick

The variables are completely different.  Bad science!! 

[Chaos Theory]

26 minutes ago, Dev F said:

 

It's especially funny to me because elsewhere the episode is being praised pretty effusively -- overly so, in my opinion, since I found the episode to be a collection of great moments that all felt a little disjointed, held together by plot contrivances that were a little more convenient than usual. But to each his/her own.

Where?  Because I am getting tired of coming here and feeling like I am the only person who still thinks this is one of the best shows on tv.  I almost didn’t post on this episode.

[RedHawk]

6 hours ago, Shriekingeel said:

Rewatching. The Oleg-Tatiana scene is my favorite in the episode. It’s intense and well-acted. 

 

One thing that pro-Soviet sources don’t like to discuss is how the methods Stalin and his generals fought the war contributed to the enormous casualty totals, such as the frequent tactical use of human-wave assaults on fortified positions.  Solzhenitsyn also says that many of the deaths included in wartime casualty totals were those in the vast prisoner population in the Gulag camps. In the privation of the war years, “Just as many died in the camps as at the front”.

When Claudia told Paige that number in the millions, I thought, "I wonder if she's now going to tell Paige how many of those losses were  due to Stalin's failures and prisoners in the Gulgag?" Does Paige even know the word "Gulag"? For a college kid in the late '80s, she's stunningly lacking in information, to put it nicely. I am just agreeing to suspend disbelief for show purposes.

Edited April 26, 2018 by RedHawk

[teddysmom]

Just now, Chaos Theory said:

Where?  Because I am getting tired of coming here and feeling like I am the only person who still thinks this is one of the best shows on tv.  I almost didn’t post on this episode

Oh I thought it was a great episode, and it is still one of the best shows on tv.   I was just commenting on the olive oil/parental sexcapades. 

[EtheltoTillie]

1 minute ago, Chaos Theory said:

Where?  Because I am getting tired of coming here and feeling like I am the only person who still thinks this is one of the best shows on tv.  I almost didn’t post on this episode.

You are not alone. I love this show even if I might gripe about plot holes. 

[teddysmom]

I have figured out the garage mystery!!

The houses/garages are L shaped, and zero lot lines. 

The garage on the right of the screen belongs to the home next to theirs.