Season 7: Jamie Ross, Former Bond Girl

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I was somewhat surprised that Frances Sternhagen, who played the mother in law, is still with us. The episode first aired in January of '97, and I thought she was older than she looked even then.

On a similar note, Matrimony comes on at midnight. I always look forward to "the dancin' naked idiot family."

[WendyCR72]

40 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

I was somewhat surprised that Frances Sternhagen, who played the mother in law, is still with us. The episode first aired in January of '97, and I thought she was older than she looked even then.

On a similar note, Matrimony comes on at midnight. I always look forward to "the dancin' naked idiot family."

Frances Sternhagen is everywhere. I think she'll outlast everyone.  :-)  Let's hope "Matrimony" can be seen. (Assuming it's the WE episodes you're watching; WE has been having issues with blacking out in increments all day today! At least in my area.)

[Arcadiasw]

On Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 7:42 PM, WendyCR72 said:

Frances Sternhagen is everywhere. I think she'll outlast everyone.  :-)  Let's hope "Matrimony" can be seen. (Assuming it's the WE episodes you're watching; WE has been having issues with blacking out in increments all day today! At least in my area.)

Not just your area. It's in mine, too. I was annoyed a few weeks ago when the last episodes of season four was skipped. I was looking forward to seeing Mayhem again. However last Wednesday they didn't skip. I had a stay at home vacation last week and caught L&O all day. Of course today they skipped again. :(

[Arcadiasw]

On Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 0:27 PM, Spartan Girl said:

So "Legacy" will be on tonight, and even though I do feel bad for the wife that figures out her second husband murdered her first husband, I can't help feeling annoyed/angry/frustrated with her too.  Seriously, who gets remarried only ONE YEAR after their husband dies?  I didn't buy the "I was a single mother and was soooooo lonely" excuse.  I get that she was vulnerable and manipulated, but really, only a year is just kind of disrespectful.

Also, it probably should have been a red flag that the creepy stalker was bringing "teas and little cakes" to comfort her.  What guy willingly brings over tea?

Gotta give credit to the actress who played Robin. With her voice and body language at times throughout the episode Robin came off as well not the sharpest knife in the drawer. If that was the actress intent for her character, good job. 

It's not too surprising Robin married so soon after her husband died. She might be one of those people who can't be alone or isn't comfortable being alone. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 hours ago, Arcadiasw said:

Gotta give credit to the actress who played Robin. With her voice and body language at times throughout the episode Robin came off as well not the sharpest knife in the drawer. If that was the actress intent for her character, good job. 

It's not too surprising Robin married so soon after her husband died. She might be one of those people who can't be alone or isn't comfortable being alone. 

This was the actress's second return to the show. She played the prostitute who got AIDS in season one's "By Hooker, by Crook" I think is the name of the episode.  Weatlhy woman who was a madam, using "Poppy's Catering" as the name.

[roseha]

Quote

On a similar note, Matrimony comes on at midnight. I always look forward to "the dancin' naked idiot family."

I always wonder how the regular cast kept a straight face through that one.  Love that episode.

[Eolivet]

On 6/8/2016 at 6:01 PM, Arcadiasw said:

Gotta give credit to the actress who played Robin. With her voice and body language at times throughout the episode Robin came off as well not the sharpest knife in the drawer. If that was the actress intent for her character, good job. 

WE is re-airing season 7 on Tuesdays, and this episode just aired. I thought the actress did a good job -- I noticed the subtle change in her expression as it's revealed that her stalker husband never had a business trip in Harrisburg. Hadn't seen the ep in a while -- I got so mad at the dudebro roommate for lying on the stand!

I can sort of understand Robin -- her stalker husband wasn't a total stranger, he was a friend she'd known for years -- she had no reason to suspect him of being her husband's killer. I sort of put it in the same category of 9/11 widows who married firefighters -- she thought they went through something traumatic together that bonded them, and it became love in that sense.

But no -- she just married her stalker. Truly great episode (if not completely creepy and wrong).

[KHenry14]

On 6/8/2016 at 3:01 PM, Arcadiasw said:

Gotta give credit to the actress who played Robin. With her voice and body language at times throughout the episode Robin came off as well not the sharpest knife in the drawer. If that was the actress intent for her character, good job. 

It's not too surprising Robin married so soon after her husband died. She might be one of those people who can't be alone or isn't comfortable being alone. 

That actress, Jenny Robertson, is a good one. Most people don't realize that her first role was as the slutty, ditzzy Millie in Bull Durham. A character which is the polar opposite of Robin Sheppard  in this episode. 

[Eolivet]

"Mad Dog" is a great, albeit horrifying, episode. I always thought it encapsulated the best -- and worst -- of McCoy better than any other episode I can think of.

The ending should seem like a cop-out (no pun intended), but I find it unbelievably effective. After all that pressure, there was nowhere else the story (or the sicko Darnell) could go.

It was proving McCoy was right, but in the most horrifying way possible. Season 7 was just so freaking good.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

16 hours ago, Eolivet said:

"Mad Dog" is a great, albeit horrifying, episode. I always thought it encapsulated the best -- and worst -- of McCoy better than any other episode I can think of.

"I'm sorry that it had to come to this."

"Not sorry enough."

The way Jack darts a look at Jamie always reminds me of how annoyed he got with Claire over her not leaping to his defense over the accusation that he was in the habit of suppressing exculpatory evidence in Trophy. He was right about Darnell, but his relentless tightening of the screws wouldn't have continued for so long with any other suspect because someone would have put a stop to it long before the (possibly) inevitable happened.

Also, random observation about the three-parter with Lorelai Gilmore - Janeane Garofalo is an attractive woman, but she needs to not dye her hair even darker when its already almost black. It makes her look like Vampira.

[BW Manilowe]

Was Jamie's ex-husband's last name Gordon, with a D, or Gorton, with a T? Everything I've seen has his first name as Neil, (like Neil Diamond), but his last name changes from Gordon to Gorton, depending on the source. And some sources (like the L&O Wiki/Wikia[?]) even switch between Gordon & Gorton in the middle of his character page! I've always thought his name was Neil Gordon (with a D).

[WendyCR72]

Pretty sure it was Neil Gordon, with a D.

[BW Manilowe]

21 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Pretty sure it was Neil Gordon, with a D.

Thanks. That's how I think I hear it & how I always try to write it.

By the way, would you know who the Mod is for Hawaii Five-0 (2010)? I'm wondering when/if they're gonna archive the ep (& other) threads specific for last season (Season 6).

[WendyCR72]

2 minutes ago, BW Manilowe said:

Thanks. That's how I think I hear it & how I always try to write it.

By the way, would you know who the Mod is for Hawaii Five-0 (2010)? I'm wondering when/if they're gonna archive the ep (& other) threads specific for last season (Season 6).

No, I don't. I'll look into it!

[BW Manilowe]

1 minute ago, WendyCR72 said:

No, I don't. I'll look into it!

Thanks. Much appreciated. If the 25 S6 ep threads could at least get moved, it would help compact the forum. S7 started 3 weeks ago (& has 4 ep threads up already).

[Snookums]

Quote

I can sort of understand Robin -- her stalker husband wasn't a total stranger, he was a friend she'd known for years -- she had no reason to suspect him of being her husband's killer. I sort of put it in the same category of 9/11 widows who married firefighters -- she thought they went through something traumatic together that bonded them, and it became love in that sense.

Yeah, this is pretty common. You lose your spouse unexpectedly, you're a new mother, scared, alone...it's very common for young widow/widowers to remarry quickly. Just not to the stalker that killed their first husband! And since her former MIL was the one worrying at the circumstances I'm sure she felt like she was the mature, intelligent one moving on and accepting that "accidents happen," etc. Any weird, off feelings could just be written off as "MIL's crazy schtick is just bugging me."

 

So, just watched Survivor, and MAN, that one is intense. It's got all the little hints you don't pick up on at first--like when Rey and Lenny are interviewing The Southern Contessa and she explains her late husband was a count whose family's property got taken away by the Italian government years ago and she's still wrangling to get it back. She's presented as a silly, bubbleheaded party girl type who clearly is out for as many baubles as she can get, and so is her husband's land claim. That's so dumb! Who even cares? Ancient history, right? 

And then the events of the the episode unfold, and you realize stolen land and stolen property were stolen from real people, people who lost everything and that fifty years was as a day as far as they're concerned. Spending your entire adult life trying to get one damn person to care that you were robbed of everything, that the last asset and link to your old life was cheerfully snatched up and sold by a Swiss bank that's still obscenely rich and sleek today, doing business with everybody, not caring what they did to you? And how that leaks into your daughter's mind so that she's paralyzed with fear and sorrow and then she finally hears that the guy who used her dead, Holocaust survivor father's stolen coins in a lie to make himself rich--ugh. Karen Allen really brought it in this episode, especially when she's talking to Olivet and shrieks out "HE WANTED TO GET ONE THING BACK!" No thing, no coin, no land, is just itself. It's what was done to its owners.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

2 hours ago, Snookums said:

And then the events of the the episode unfold, and you realize stolen land and stolen property were stolen from real people, people who lost everything and that fifty years was as a day as far as they're concerned. Spending your entire adult life trying to get one damn person to care that you were robbed of everything, that the last asset and link to your old life was cheerfully snatched up and sold by a Swiss bank that's still obscenely rich and sleek today, doing business with everybody, not caring what they did to you? And how that leaks into your daughter's mind so that she's paralyzed with fear and sorrow and then she finally hears that the guy who used her dead, Holocaust survivor father's stolen coins in a lie to make himself rich--ugh. Karen Allen really brought it in this episode, especially when she's talking to Olivet and shrieks out "HE WANTED TO GET ONE THING BACK!" No thing, no coin, no land, is just itself. It's what was done to its owners.

Brittle, angry Judith is one of the few killers I can really feel sorry for, and not just because I've adored Karen Allen for years. She would likely never have gotten in trouble with the law in any way if the crooked coin dealer hadn't lied about having her father's coins, and if his friend hadn't covered up for him to keep the lie from being exposed. Fair enough to say neither of them could have known how troubled she was, but had they not pretty much colluded to deceive everyone, not just her, none of it would have happened.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Expert is on Sundance now. Gawd, Vera Farmiga's hair.

[Spartan Girl]

Deleted. Moved to All Episodes discussion

Edited April 30, 2017 by Spartan Girl

[Xeliou66]

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

"Promises to Keep" was on last night, with Lindsey Crouse as the shrink boinking her patient behind his fiancée's back, which lead to the guy murdering the fiancée. Still don't know why Ben and the team felt sorry for the crazy asshole. Yeah, the shrink took advantage of him, but the only real victim in that case was the actual murder victim. Her boyfriend cheated on her, then murdered her just to "protect" his precious Diiiiiiiiaaaane. And then the shrink tries to throw the cops off by making her out to be a crazy drunk slut. Ugh.

Um, that was a season 3 episode, why don't you move that post over to the general discussion thread

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

Um, that was a season 3 episode, why don't you move that post over to the general discussion thread

Crap, I didn't know I posted it in this thread. Sorry!

[CoderLady]

On 4/27/2017 at 5:43 PM, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Expert is on Sundance now. Gawd, Vera Farmiga's hair.

When the detectives were interviewing witnesses and one described her, she mentioned the bangs. Makes me wonder if Farmiga had the bangs when she got the role or if she had to get her hair cut like that because it was in the script. Now I'm trying to decide which is worse.

[shapeshifter]

This season has been airing on WE this week.
I know there's a lot of hate for the character of Rey Curtis in the L&O fandom (and there are a lot of plot reasons for this Rey hate) but in the episodes I've caught from season 7, he seems like an attractive Jiminy Cricket type of character -- sort of conscience when one is needed, but probably more of just not wanting to risk getting into trouble because as a non-white man he knows that can quickly go south.

Anyway, in 7.19 "Double Down," there's a lot of Detectives vs. Lawyers with regards to a (technical) "cop killer" getting off with "only" 15 years in prison in exchange for information about a kidnapped witness's location when the detectives figure the witness has to be dead.

Rey goes ever so slightly into the gray area on the witness stand, which gives us a satisfying (IMO) exchange between Curtis and McCoy at the end of the episode.

On the stand, Rey is asked by the lawyer defending the bad guy why, when Rey and Lennie burst into the court room to give McCoy news that they had found the bad guy's partner--why didn't Rey tell McCoy the partner was dead? The real reason is because McCoy told Briscoe and Rey Curtis to stop talking. 
But:

[REY TO THE DEFENDANT'S LAWYER] We might have thought it was understood.

[LAWYER] Understood. The logical inference for an experienced prosecutor to draw.

[REY] For a detective, yes. For a prosecutor, I don't know. In my experience, sometimes
they're not too bright.

Then, later:
[REY TO JACK MCCOY] What if I'd testified you told us to shut up?

[JACK] It would've hurt.

[REY] Yeah.

[JACK] Well, at least you got to dodge the question by calling me an idiot.

[REY] Yeah, that helped.

 

 

 

[Xeliou66]

Double Down is an interesting episode that I have mixed feelings about - but I thought it was very clever and quick thinking by McCoy to tell Briscoe and Curtis to shut up when they came to inform him about the accomplice’s death. I was annoyed with how the police seemed to care more about punishing the killer than about possibly saving the hostage because the person killed was a cop, I thought the DA’s handled the situation well. Also disturbing was how Briscoe was apparently willing to commit perjury to nail the guy, it was one time I sided with Curtis. I liked Jack saying that the defendant could do hard time until hell freezes over, that was good. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

Rey being shown as not a judgmental, sanctimonious, self-righteous, civil rights abusing cop was the exception, not the rule.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Rey being shown as not a judgmental, sanctimonious, self-righteous, civil rights abusing cop was the exception, not the rule.

Perhaps we could refer to this version of Rey as "Season 7 Rey"? 😁

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

Double Down is an interesting episode that I have mixed feelings about...

Lots to think about with this episode, that probably was never discussed when it aired in 1997 before we were dissecting shows online.

It wasn't until the last part of the episode (multitasking watching) that I realized the guy that everyone wanted to get the death penalty didn't kill anyone except his accomplice, who had already killed a cop and and the cabbie. Plus, the perp knew the cabbie was already dead, so it wasn't like he was risking the cabbie's life by delaying the cabbie being found while negotiating to get himself out of prison in 10 years instead of never.
And, he was robbing the liquor store to get rent money rather than something like drug money. 
But the actor playing the perp made him seem so evil--like demonic from Criminal Minds or X-Files, LOL.

In contrast, the fresh-faced kid working in the robbed liquor store who stole $600 in the chaos got off free after being questioned. 
And yet, if the kid hadn't stolen that money, the main perp wouldn't have killed his partner to get the partner's portion of the money for the rent, because the split would have been enough. Perhaps the partner being dead was a good thing for the sake of society, but the main perp was initially being charged with murder because of his part in the robbery--which is what the kid did too.

[GHScorpiosRule]

On 12/8/2021 at 3:56 PM, shapeshifter said:

Perhaps we could refer to this version of Rey as "Season 7 Rey"? 😁

I never warmed up to Rey because I was so, so bitter at Noth's firing and Bratt replacing him.

Then there's his cheating on his wife with the grad student played by Jennifer Garner after witnessing someone put to death, instead of, oh, I don't know, going home to your WIFE? This season did have good episodes. I loved Jamie. She didn't take any shit from Jack.

The only times I've liked Rey is when he makes up that certificate for the kid in the three parter, and Van Buren signs it; not playing ball with Lennie's former, and now dirty cop played by Kevin Conway;and trying to do something nice for the stalker victim they didn't believe, after her stalker killed her.

Edited December 10, 2021 by GHScorpiosRule
STOOPID NOTAUTOCORRECT!

[Ailianna]

5 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Perhaps we could refer to this version of Rey as "Season 7 Rey"? 😁

Lots to think about with this episode, that probably was never discussed when it aired in 1997 before we were dissecting shows online.

It wasn't until the last part of the episode (multitasking watching) that I realized the guy that everyone wanted to get the death penalty didn't kill anyone except his accomplice, who had already killed a cop and and the cabbie. Plus, the perp knew the cabbie was already dead, so it wasn't like he was risking the cabbie's life by delaying the cabbie being found while negotiating to get himself out of prison in 10 years instead of never.
And, he was robbing the liquor store to get rent money rather than something like drug money. 
But the actor playing the perp made him seem so evil--like demonic from Criminal Minds or X-Files, LOL.

In contrast, the fresh-faced kid working in the robbed liquor store who stole $600 in the chaos got off free after being questioned. 
And yet, if the kid hadn't stolen that money, the main perp wouldn't have killed his partner to get the partner's portion of the money for the rent, because the split would have been enough. Perhaps the partner being dead was a good thing for the sake of society, but the main perp was initially being charged with murder because of his part in the robbery--which is what the kid did too.

The kid committed a misdemeanor petit larceny, no accomplice and no force used. Not a robbery at all. Its been a while since I saw this one, but I'm also remembering it that he took advantage of the robbery to steal. The $600 was already in the safe when the robbery happened (like it was supposed to be), so it wasn't available to the robbers anyway. But after the robbery, he went back to the safe, took the $600 and told his boss he never had time to put the money in originally. His actions didn't contribute to any deaths at all.

[Spartan Girl]

21 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

The only times I've liked Rey is when he makes up that certificate for the kid in the three parter, and Van Buren signs it; not playing ball with Lennie's former, and now dirty copy played by Kevin Conrad; and trying to do something nice for the stalker victim they didn't believe, after her stalker killed her.

Which was kind of ruined by his initial refusal to back Lennie’s testimony that the stalker victim hadn’t lied after all—which it was pretty obvious by that point that she didn’t admit to lying; she only broke down and cried because of the enormity of the fact that they believed SHE was the liar. I mean, it was nice Rey tried to make sure she wasn’t going to get fired, but not owning up to the fact that they were wrong? Screw him.

[GHScorpiosRule]

7 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

I mean, it was nice Rey tried to make sure she wasn’t going to get fired, but not owning up to the fact that they were wrong? Screw him.

And the defense attorney called him out for it. That if he believed she had lied, why lie to her employer that she was telling the truth?

[Arcadiasw]

Saw "Good Girl" Wow Rey: "LT take a look. Does she look like a stone killer?"

Van Buren handled that beautifully.

Edited December 11, 2021 by Arcadiasw

[GHScorpiosRule]

More thoughts later, but after finishing this season, it’s a DAMNED  shame that we only  had Jamie for only two seasons.

I loved her take no prisoners attitude and confidence from the moment she appeared.

I really don’t understand the criticisms of Carey being a lousy actress.

[Xeliou66]

I saw Past Imperfect and Terminal today, both really strong episodes to finish season 7

Past Imperfect is a really good episode with a lot of good twists and turns, I haven’t seen it talked about much, but it was a good case with good investigative and legal stuff. I found the murderer kind of sympathetic given how she had been treated by her mother, but she was also greedy as I think she only wanted the money from the inheritance, she was still a murderer though and deserved to go to prison.

Terminal is fantastic, the investigation is really good and takes some good twists and all but it’s really Schiff who shines in the episode and gets to take center stage, it was great seeing him get to speak up in court, and I loved the scene where him and McCoy do the research on similar cases. And of course the ending is one of the saddest in L&O’s history with Schiff’s wife dying, very memorable, tear jerking ending. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

Eh. Didn’t feel sorry for the MURDERER in “Past Imperfect” at all. It just tickled me to see Ducky David McCallum!

Watching “Working Mom” I don’t know how Jack was able to get hubby to tell him that he didn’t know anything thing because his wife didn’t tell him anything. Any conversations they had fall under spousal privilege. And that objections weren’t raised at trial was another head scratcher. Since practically every episode involving spouses and their conversations always raised this privilege.

LAINE!!! I’d forgotten that Elaine Stritch had reprised her role! I loved her-both the actress and character!

[Xeliou66]

21 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Eh. Didn’t feel sorry for the MURDERER in “Past Imperfect” at all. It just tickled me to see Ducky David McCallum!

Watching “Working Mom” I don’t know how Jack was able to get hubby to tell him that he didn’t know anything thing because his wife didn’t tell him anything. Any conversations they had fall under spousal privilege. And that objections weren’t raised at trial was another head scratcher. Since practically every episode involving spouses and their conversations always raised this privilege.

LAINE!!! I’d forgotten that Elaine Stritch had reprised her role! I loved her-both the actress and character!

I found the murderer in Past Imperfect a bit more sympathetic than I find most murderers, but don’t get me wrong she still deserved to go to prison and I found her final sentence fair.

Working Mom is a great episode, some great investigative and legal stuff in that one. As for the husband, they weren’t in court when Jack and Jamie talked to him in his office so nobody’s rights were being violated or anything, they had the right to question the husband as to what he knew, and in court I think the husband/wife waived spousal privilege so that the husband could testify on his wife’s behalf, he wasn’t being forced to testify against her, he was testifying on her behalf so the privileged was waived, that’s what I think happened anyway.

I kind of found Lanie Stieglitz annoying, something about her voice and her personality just irritated me, but she did a good job in this episode, but I didn’t believe her client’s story for a minute, there was no evidence pointing towards self-defense, and I really liked Jack’s closing argument where he laid out the evidence and pointed out that the victim was a blackmailer, not a rapist, and this was a case of a woman executing her blackmailer, and I’m glad the jury convicted. It’s a great episode, almost every season 7 episode is fantastic IMO. 

[Xeliou66]

I saw Causa Mortis tonight, and I really like this one, the season 7 premiere - I’ve expressed my hatred for Aftershock many times, but I liked how season 7 started, they didn’t completely ignore the events of Aftershock, but they only referenced them a couple of times, with Van Buren asking Curtis how Lennie was, McCoy being reluctant to work with a new second chair, and then the ending scene between Jack and Lennie. And I really liked that there was no beef between Jack and Lennie over what happened to Claire, neither blamed the other and Lennie invited Jack out for a drink at the end of the episode.

The case was really good in this one - a lot of detective work was done in tracking down the killer and there was a lot of good legal stuff as well, I really liked our introduction to Jamie Ross, she’s a good character and her intro was well done. I really disliked the killer’s fiancé, she protected him throughout and was whiny and self-absorbed. 

[Spartan Girl]

6 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I really disliked the killer’s fiancé, she protected him throughout and was whiny and self-absorbed

Same. Didn’t buy her eleventh hour remorse either: saying that she was sorry “it happened” isn’t taking responsibility. And the fact that she had the nerve to say she didn’t want her baby growing up without a father when four kids weren’t going to grow up without their mother made me want to smack her. That baby actually would be better off without that creep for a father, I’m just sorry they’re stuck with you for a mother!

Their lawyers were scum as well with those underhanded tactics to get the gun thrown out.

Loved Jamie’s debut but at the end it almost sounded like she actually bought the “I didn’t mean to kill her” bullshit.** Jack and Lenny were right: he didn’t use the gun because he didn’t want the noise.

Or maybe I read that part wrong because I’m so oversensitive from all Serena’s shit.

[shapeshifter]

50 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Loved Jamie’s debut but at the end it almost sounded like she actually bought the “I didn’t mean to kill her” bullshit.** Jack and Lenny were right: he didn’t use the gun because he didn’t want the noise.

Or maybe I read that part wrong because I’m so oversensitive from all Serena’s shit.

Here's the dialogue, but reading it now, I interpret Jamie's line to mean that she wonders how close the victim was to successfully connecting to the killer as a human and convincing him not to kill her. The victim sounds desperate, but never waivers from trying to reach him. The victim had experience teaching "ex-cons, ex-drug addicts" who "stopped to thank her" when they graduated. Jaimie is not a favorite of mine; maybe Carey Lowell just doesn't convey meaning very well. Her IMDb list post-L&O is much shorter than those of Jill Hennessy, Alana de la Garza, and Angie Harmon.

• [VICTIM'S TAPE RECORDING PLAYED IN COURT] Please, just stop
  and think, Fernando. You're making a terrible mistake. Just stop and think.

• The People have nothing
  further, Your Honor.

• [JACK IN ADAM'S OFFICE] The lab ran off a copy.

• Good.

• I'm leaving instructions to play it at
  Salva's parole hearing 25 years from now.

• Makes you wonder how close she
  came to walking away from it.

• She was dead the minute
  he said, "Drive."

• Then why didn't he shoot her?

• [LENNIE] The noise.

 

 

8 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I saw Causa Mortis tonight, and I really like this one, the season 7 premiere - I’ve expressed my hatred for Aftershock many times, but I liked how season 7 started, they didn’t completely ignore the events of Aftershock, but they only referenced them a couple of times, with Van Buren asking Curtis how Lennie was, McCoy being reluctant to work with a new second chair, and then the ending scene between Jack and Lennie. And I really liked that there was no beef between Jack and Lennie over what happened to Claire, neither blamed the other and Lennie invited Jack out for a drink at the end of the episode.

Yes. The above-quoted dialogue is immediately followed by the final exchange that references what happened to Claire:

• [LENNIE] So, you want to join me for a club soda? 
• Not tonight. Rain check? 
  You know, a few weeks before it happened, she wanted to quit. I talked her out of it.
• Yeah, well, I could have kept walking past that bar.

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

 I interpret Jamie's line to mean that she wonders how close the victim was to successfully connecting to the killer as a human and convincing him not to kill her. The victim sounds desperate, but never waivers from trying to reach him

Yeah, but there’s a fine line between troubled kid and irredeemable scumbag. He was the latter; he chose to kill her, did everything he could to try and get away with it, and he only seemed upset that his fiancée was able to hear the tape at the end—which was clearly different from whatever version he gave her.

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Yeah, but there’s a fine line between troubled kid and irredeemable scumbag. He was the latter; he chose to kill her, did everything he could to try and get away with it, and he only seemed upset that his fiancée was able to hear the tape at the end—which was clearly different from whatever version he gave her.

Yeah. I wouldn't mind seeing a new episode that riffed on this one but with the prosecuting attorney being permitted to have "witnesses" (like the victim's husband) testify about how she had worked with troubled youth and been able to reach them and form positive, constructive professional relationships with them, but then, even after everything she said in the recording to the killer, the killer was still unmoved, and therefore should get life without parole. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

23 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Yeah. I wouldn't mind seeing a new episode that riffed on this one but with the prosecuting attorney being permitted to have "witnesses" (like the victim's husband) testify about how she had worked with troubled youth and been able to reach them and form positive, constructive professional relationships with them, but then, even after everything she said in the recording to the killer, the killer was still unmoved, and therefore should get life without parole. 

That kind of testimony takes place during the sentencing phase--victim impact statement; not during the trial. Because that kind of testimony isn't evidence.

[GHScorpiosRule]

5 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Loved Jamie’s debut but at the end it almost sounded like she actually bought the “I didn’t mean to kill her” bullshit.** Jack and Lenny were right: he didn’t use the gun because he didn’t want the noise.

Or maybe I read that part wrong because I’m so oversensitive from all Serena’s shit.

I may be misremembering, but Jamie didn't strike me as the type of ADA that wiffle-waffled. She was all in as an ADA, and was it in her first appearance that Jamie told Jack that she believed in monsters? And how aggressive she was going after her friend, Charlie, the crooked ADA? Though that was in season 8, though.

There was none of the self-important "moral superiority"* of Claire's or Rohmbot's continued arguments for the defense from Jamie.

*Lou Cariou, playing Mac, Claire's stepfather in "Aftershock".

[TotalDrama]

I loathe Carey Lowell for leaving the show so soon. One of the memorable short-stint and well received actors on the show, it's a pity she didn't last longer. As good as Angie Harmon was, Carey should have at least taken up those seasons and we would have had her for five years. She was a more intimidating co-anchor for Jack after the laid-back and sweet Claire Kincaid that I'd like to have seen more of this dynamic. I'm glad they finally made use of her in Trial By Jury as a judge, which seemed more fitting than her re-transitioning back to being a defense attorney which I thought was pathetic given her change from that to an ADA when she first came on. But what an even more pity we haven't saw her since on any of the shows as a judge. This is what I dislike about this franchise; just the lack of bringing back these characters that are still floating around NYC for all we know and not being utilized or mentioned until it's convenient. I will tweet to the showrunner of the L&O revival to include her in somehow. 

Edited December 24, 2021 by TotalDrama

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 minutes ago, TotalDrama said:

I loathe Carey Lowell for leaving the show so soon.

That’s pretty harsh. She had personal reasons for leaving. Actors don’t owe viewers to remain on a show or movie franchise.

I’m disappointed she left after two seasons, but she had a young child, from what I understand.

What I will say is that any ire I have for how she was written out, I lay at Wolf and whoever wrote her exit.

[TotalDrama]

9 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

That’s pretty harsh. She had personal reasons for leaving. Actors don’t owe viewers to remain on a show or movie franchise.

I’m disappointed she left after two seasons, but she had a young child, from what I understand.

What I will say is that any ire I have for how she was written out, I lay at Wolf and whoever wrote her exit.

If her child was a concern, then she shouldn't have been on the show in the first place. She did have that child when she came on did she? If not, then she should have at least found some way to work her schedule. The show went through various casting changes by that point. The last thing it needed was anymore, the least she could have done was stick around for a while to keep it stable. She left and then the following year you had Benjamin leaving like come on....it's annoying. It's amazing this show lasted as long as it did with all these people coming and going. The ones who only stayed on for a year or two, I give them the major side eye. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

The longevity of Orbach, Waterston, Merkerson was the exception, not the rule. Cast changes is what kept the show fresh.

Granted, some of the changes were head scratchers.

We’ll just have to agree to disagree.

[TotalDrama]

13 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

The longevity of Orbach, Waterston, Merkerson was the exception, not the rule. Cast changes is what kept the show fresh.

Granted, some of the changes were head scratchers.

We’ll just have to agree to disagree.

They were all head scratchers to me, and the ones who didn't even make it a FULL season without leaving (like Paul Sorvino, Jesse Martin, and Elizabeth Rohm) are very iffy because it's like damn, they couldn't finish out their seasons? Were they or the makers that desperate for them to leave? Jesse definitely could have finished out his last batch of episodes for sure. He only had like four more episodes. -_-

Edited December 24, 2021 by TotalDrama

[Door County Cherry]

2 hours ago, TotalDrama said:

The show went through various casting changes by that point. The last thing it needed was anymore, the least she could have done was stick around for a while to keep it stable.

It's not her job to keep things stable.  It looks like this was her first series drama role and it might have surprised her how long the days were. 

I do think the reason some of the departures are midseason were to set up the new faces so we're comfortable with them in the new season, 

[Morrigan2575]

8 hours ago, Door County Cherry said:

do think the reason some of the departures are midseason were to set up the new faces so we're comfortable with them in the new season, 

Could also be contracts. Perhaps contracts were up and they agreed to extend for X number of episodes to setup their characters departure.  With Rohm and Bratt they left to jump on their careers...although they never made the big leagues.

[TotalDrama]

 

14 hours ago, Door County Cherry said:

It's not her job to keep things stable.  It looks like this was her first series drama role and it might have surprised her how long the days were. 

I do think the reason some of the departures are midseason were to set up the new faces so we're comfortable with them in the new season, 

She should have known in advance what she was looking forward to though. I just hate seeing actors leave so soon when we already had casting changes and when they play such potential good characters that could surely do justice in the long run and they leave abruptly early on, it's just sad. As for the mid-season leaving thing, perhaps that's a good reason. I always found that odd though like they were in a hurry to get out or the makers were in a hurry to get them out. A very notable case of the latter is on SVU when you had Michaela McNamus still credited the whole Season 10 but they kicked her off six episodes shy because they saw she wasn't quite clicking with the role and audiences were not liking her either. I wasn't fond of her at first because I adored Novak so much, but rewatching those episodes I've grown to see she had potential. 

6 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Could also be contracts. Perhaps contracts were up and they agreed to extend for X number of episodes to setup their characters departure.  With Rohm and Bratt they left to jump on their careers...although they never made the big leagues.

Hey, Rohm might not have much of a success post L&O in other projects, but Benjamin Bratt had a few known hits most recently as that FOX show "Star" before they killed him off which was a damn shame.