Season 7: Jamie Ross, Former Bond Girl

[Xeliou66]

10 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

That was such a good twist. The murder did a good job pretending to be her sister. She didn't slip up once. I don't feel sorry for her or her husband. They were dumb enough to do their casino scam in mob owned casinos. If your dumb enough to do that you deserve to get murdered. I hate how she completely dismisses her sister's life as if it was nothing. Her poor sister. I love the take down of Judge Marks. He was a jerk to Jamie the whole time making inappropriate remarks. Then telling the other Judge he had a right to question witnesses. Ah, no that's not your job. Your job is to make sure the trial is fair. As the other judge pointed out. I was surprised by Adam's response all we've seen is Marks being a jerk. 

Yeah it was a great twist that she was posing as her sister, and she was ice cold, she didn’t care at all about her sister’s life, she was a very cold blooded killer and it only showed at the end.  
Marks was a dick on a power trip, constantly making inappropriate remarks to Jamie and then acting like the defense attorney instead of the judge, I liked when the chief judge at the end said that Marks wasn’t supposed to care who won the trial. It was interesting that Adam said that Marks used to be a good judge, I guess he just let all of the power go to his head.     
It was also interesting how it was mentioned that Adam used to be a defense attorney at one point in his career. Adam is such a great character, I liked how he always did his job and followed the law regardless of his personal feelings. 

[andromeda331]

13 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah it was a great twist that she was posing as her sister, and she was ice cold, she didn’t care at all about her sister’s life, she was a very cold blooded killer and it only showed at the end.  

Yeah, she really was.

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Marks was a dick on a power trip, constantly making inappropriate remarks to Jamie and then acting like the defense attorney instead of the judge, I liked when the chief judge at the end said that Marks wasn’t supposed to care who won the trial. It was interesting that Adam said that Marks used to be a good judge, I guess he just let all of the power go to his head. 

 

The judge was right he wasn't supposed to care about who won. Marks really only cared about who won depending on who he liked or disliked. He was very pro-prosecution until Jamie revealed the woman on trial was the sister. He was really a jerk towards Jamie and Jack from then on blaming them for it. How was that their fault? They didn't know. The defense lawyer had to know and he chose to say nothing which if not illegal should still be wrong for a lawyer. Marks became pro-defense at that point. It didn't matter that the defendent murdered her sister. All he cared about was how mad he was at Jack and Jamie. I wonder how many other cases he did that in. This couldn't have been the first. I hope someone looked into his previous cases.

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It was also interesting how it was mentioned that Adam used to be a defense attorney at one point in his career. Adam is such a great character, I liked how he always did his job and followed the law regardless of his personal feelings

 

That's what I love most about Adam. He always did his job and followed the law even if it went against his personal feelings. I always find that more interesting then having characters upset and complaining about how the law goes against their personal believes and trying to make the job fit their beliefs. Like Serena and Nora did would do. That's not the job. The district attorney's office job is to go by the law. If that's what they wanted to do then they should run for office where they can make laws. Adam really was the best.

 

[Xeliou66]

I just watched Working Mom, this is a great episode, really good detective work and trial scenes. I didn’t buy Hillary’s story that she killed the guy in self defense, I thought it was clear she killed him to cover up the fact she was moonlighting as a hooker. I thought Jack’s closing argument was great - he laid out all of the facts of the case - that Hillary suffered no injuries and covered up the crime and lied constantly, and that she would go to any length to cover up her secret life, and that the victim was a blackmailer, not a rapist. This was a case of someone murdering their blackmailer, not self defense from a rapist, and killing a blackmailer isn’t justified, and I was glad the jury convicted her. Some really good detective work as well in tracking down who did it, I liked seeing them go through the credit card charges and get to the bottom of the case. Strong episode.

Now I’m watching the 3 parter, and while the Curtis melodrama gets on my nerves, I love the scenes of Lennie in LA, ready to play golf and see the sights. I liked how they had 3 hours to explore the case, and really delve deeper into it. It wasn’t perfect but I do like it, I know a lot of people don’t though.

[andromeda331]

40 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I just watched Working Mom, this is a great episode, really good detective work and trial scenes. I didn’t buy Hillary’s story that she killed the guy in self defense, I thought it was clear she killed him to cover up the fact she was moonlighting as a hooker. I thought Jack’s closing argument was great - he laid out all of the facts of the case - that Hillary suffered no injuries and covered up the crime and lied constantly, and that she would go to any length to cover up her secret life, and that the victim was a blackmailer, not a rapist. This was a case of someone murdering their blackmailer, not self defense from a rapist, and killing a blackmailer isn’t justified, and I was glad the jury convicted her. Some really good detective work as well in tracking down who did it, I liked seeing them go through the credit card charges and get to the bottom of the case. Strong episode.

I agree. The cop was terrible but he didn't rape her. She didn't want her family to find out what she was doing. She lied at every turn. It was a good investigation I like how you don't know where it's going. The first lie to the cops did actually make sense until they investigated further. I'm glad they convicted her too.

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Now I’m watching the 3 parter, and while the Curtis melodrama gets on my nerves, I love the scenes of Lennie in LA, ready to play golf and see the sights. I liked how they had 3 hours to explore the case, and really delve deeper into it. It wasn’t perfect but I do like it, I know a lot of people don’t though.

 

I have mixed feelings about the 3 parter. The Curtis stuff is annoying and it really throws me every time seeing Lauren Graham aka Lorelai and Scott Cohen aka Max Medina in the same episodes but very different characters after seeing them as a couple on Gilmore Girls. I like the case, the investigating and seeing Jack, Lennie and everyone dealing with LA courts and law. I do think the LA judge was wrong to deny the extradiction at first. They did have enough. I love Jack's questioning and how more ticked off Scott's character gets until he shows how he killed his wife. I also laugh every time they mention the movie his wife got him to made. Yeah, that is really bad. I hate Jamie's ex showing up and after everything he does especially using their kid. Jamie getting back at him was not nearly enough for what he did. I really wish Jamie nailed him. I really, really hate Gordon. 

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

I agree. The cop was terrible but he didn't rape her. She didn't want her family to find out what she was doing. She lied at every turn. It was a good investigation I like how you don't know where it's going. The first lie to the cops did actually make sense until they investigated further. I'm glad they convicted her too.

I have mixed feelings about the 3 parter. The Curtis stuff is annoying and it really throws me every time seeing Lauren Graham aka Lorelai and Scott Cohen aka Max Medina in the same episodes but very different characters after seeing them as a couple on Gilmore Girls. I like the case, the investigating and seeing Jack, Lennie and everyone dealing with LA courts and law. I do think the LA judge was wrong to deny the extradiction at first. They did have enough. I love Jack's questioning and how more ticked off Scott's character gets until he shows how he killed his wife. I also laugh every time they mention the movie his wife got him to made. Yeah, that is really bad. I hate Jamie's ex showing up and after everything he does especially using their kid. Jamie getting back at him was not nearly enough for what he did. I really wish Jamie nailed him. I really, really hate Gordon. 

Yeah the victim in Working Mom was sleazy but he wasn’t a rapist, he used blackmail to get sex but never physical force. It was clear that Hillary would go to any length to hide her double life because she didn’t want her husband, kids and everyone else in her circle to discover she was moonlighting as a hooker. Jack did a good job of clearly laying out the facts of the case to the jury.  
I also liked the investigation and where it led, it was also interesting how Bernum lied repeatedly about the situation and was hiding his relationship with Hillary, the episode had good detective work, I liked how they traced down the credit cards and the money orders and figured out who did it. It’s a strong episode.

The 3 parter I know is one episode that gets mentioned as one many people dislike, I guess mainly cause it had more personal stuff than normal between the Curtis stuff and Jamie’s ex husband, overall I like it though, it was a good case with a good plot and I liked having a longer episode to delve into things more. The judge in LA was a prick. I loved McCoy’s “a daring neo-realist foray into Jellystone Park” line and of course the ending lines between Schiff and McCoy were great as well - “take the rest of the week off” “it’s Friday, Adam” “so it is. See you on Monday”. 

 

[Xeliou66]

I watched Corruption last night, this is a really good episode, albeit somewhat different from the normal L&O episode. It’s one of the few episodes where I like Curtis in, he did a good job in probing deeper into the case and he was spot on. It was an interesting episode for Lennie as well, he clearly had a hard time believing Flynn was dirty but when evidence started to pile up he didn’t ignore it and came to realize Flynn was guilty, and it was clear he was very hurt by Flynn’s betrayal. Flynn was complete scum, not only did he become a dirty cop who took payoffs from a drug dealer and killed a witness on the dealer’s orders, but he was also willing to lie and try to ruin others reputations, such as Lennie’s, just to get a light sentence. I really hated Flynn, what a sorry excuse for a cop and a person. 
It was an interesting look into Lennie’s past, and I liked how he was supportive of the married officer who he had slept with, and I liked how she was willing to risk her reputation to clear Lennie’s name. 
Judge Hellman was an arrogant prick, and Lennie was understandably about to take a swing at him in the bathroom when he called Lennie’s ex a “slut”. I liked when Lennie said him and Flynn deserved each other and could both rot, I don’t know why Hellman was so adamant about believing that Flynn was telling the truth, I guess he didn’t want to admit he got played by a dirty cop who was trying to save his own skin.    
This was one of the few times Lennie and Adam were in the same scene, when Lennie was waiting at the DA’s office and Adam walked out of his office with Hellman, and Adam and Lennie nodded at each other. 
It’s a really good episode overall, and it might be the episode I like Curtis the most in.

[andromeda331]

10 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I watched Corruption last night, this is a really good episode, albeit somewhat different from the normal L&O episode. It’s one of the few episodes where I like Curtis in, he did a good job in probing deeper into the case and he was spot on. It was an interesting episode for Lennie as well, he clearly had a hard time believing Flynn was dirty but when evidence started to pile up he didn’t ignore it and came to realize Flynn was guilty, and it was clear he was very hurt by Flynn’s betrayal. Flynn was complete scum, not only did he become a dirty cop who took payoffs from a drug dealer and killed a witness on the dealer’s orders, but he was also willing to lie and try to ruin others reputations, such as Lennie’s, just to get a light sentence. I really hated Flynn, what a sorry excuse for a cop and a person. 
It was an interesting look into Lennie’s past, and I liked how he was supportive of the married officer who he had slept with, and I liked how she was willing to risk her reputation to clear Lennie’s name. 
Judge Hellman was an arrogant prick, and Lennie was understandably about to take a swing at him in the bathroom when he called Lennie’s ex a “slut”. I liked when Lennie said him and Flynn deserved each other and could both rot, I don’t know why Hellman was so adamant about believing that Flynn was telling the truth, I guess he didn’t want to admit he got played by a dirty cop who was trying to save his own skin.    
This was one of the few times Lennie and Adam were in the same scene, when Lennie was waiting at the DA’s office and Adam walked out of his office with Hellman, and Adam and Lennie nodded at each other. 
It’s a really good episode overall, and it might be the episode I like Curtis the most in.

I wish Adam and Lennie were in more scenes together. With their humor and sarcasm it would have been great. The Judge was a piece of work. I don't think he cared whether or not Flynn was telling the truth or not. He just wanted the publicity for taking down "dirty" cops and probably use it for a higher position or something.. He didn't have to call her a "slut" or be so harsh in his questioning of her.  She was risking her marriage and reputation to come forward. 

Flynn was a piece of shit. He was willing to thrown anyone under the bus whether they were guilty or not. He really thought Lennie would just accept it because Flynn covered for him in the past. As if they were the same things. I felt for Lennie when he realized what his friend was doing to him. That sucks. 

[Xeliou66]

19 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I wish Adam and Lennie were in more scenes together. With their humor and sarcasm it would have been great. The Judge was a piece of work. I don't think he cared whether or not Flynn was telling the truth or not. He just wanted the publicity for taking down "dirty" cops and probably use it for a higher position or something.. He didn't have to call her a "slut" or be so harsh in his questioning of her.  She was risking her marriage and reputation to come forward. 

Flynn was a piece of shit. He was willing to thrown anyone under the bus whether they were guilty or not. He really thought Lennie would just accept it because Flynn covered for him in the past. As if they were the same things. I felt for Lennie when he realized what his friend was doing to him. That sucks. 

The DA rarely has scene with the police officers, but yeah I wish Lennie and Adam had been in a few more scenes together, it would’ve been great to have some dialogue between them, they are both awesome and both had some great one liners. 
I’m not sure what Hellman’s problem was, if he was publicity hungry or if he didn’t want to admit he got played by Flynn but he was a real prick and I liked Lennie going off on him. 
Flynn was scum, and the way he stabbed Lennie in the back was despicable. Curtis was spot on about him from the start, and Lennie was a bit blind to the truth because of his past association with Flynn and how Flynn covered for him when he was an alcoholic.    
I liked how Lennie’s ex stepped forward and stood up for him even though it probably cost her her marriage, while she clearly had some character flaws she did the right thing and I liked that Lennie was going to offer her support at the end of the episode when he said she was having family troubles. 
Season 7 has so many downright awesome episodes, I personally think it’s the season with the best episodes, almost every one is a classic. 

[andromeda331]

5 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

The DA rarely has scene with the police officers, but yeah I wish Lennie and Adam had been in a few more scenes together, it would’ve been great to have some dialogue between them, they are both awesome and both had some great one liners. 
I’m not sure what Hellman’s problem was, if he was publicity hungry or if he didn’t want to admit he got played by Flynn but he was a real prick and I liked Lennie going off on him. 
Flynn was scum, and the way he stabbed Lennie in the back was despicable. Curtis was spot on about him from the start, and Lennie was a bit blind to the truth because of his past association with Flynn and how Flynn covered for him when he was an alcoholic.    

I like how it started with Curtis's suspicion how only Flynn saw the gun. It is odd that with so many cops that only one saw the gun but not impossible. The more he digged the more it became clear something was up.

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I liked how Lennie’s ex stepped forward and stood up for him even though it probably cost her her marriage, while she clearly had some character flaws she did the right thing and I liked that Lennie was going to offer her support at the end of the episode when he said she was having family troubles. 
Season 7 has so many downright awesome episodes, I personally think it’s the season with the best episodes, almost every one is a classic. 

 

I like that she did the right thing too. She did have a lot to lose her marriage and possibly any kids she has finding out she had an affair. But she still did the right thing. I like that Lennie tried to convince her not to. He didn't want her to lose anything because of him. Despite the trouble he was in.

 

 

 

[Spartan Girl]

Bumping up this thread to pay tribute to Frances Sternhagen, who played the mother who played the mother that ordered the hit on her dead son's murderer/best friend. Even though what she did was technically wrong, when you're right, you're right, and she WAS right that he killed him. That dodo daughter-in-law of hers could have saved herself a lot of grief if she'd taken the lady's warnings seriously instead of remarrying so soon. Especially after all the times he hit on her when her husband was still alive...

"But she was looooonely..."

Well, now she's alone again, and has to deal with the fact that she married and her husband's murderer and now has a child to constantly remind her. Good luck with that family dynamic.

Edited December 1, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

Well, now she's alone again, and has to deal with the fact that she married and her husband's murderer and now has a child to constantly remind her.

No. Her daughter is Rick's (her first husband) daughter. It's why Estelle put the hit out--murderer/stalker was going to adopt Rick's daughter.

[Spartan Girl]

17 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

No. Her daughter is Rick's (her first husband) daughter. It's why Estelle put the hit out--murderer/stalker was going to adopt Rick's daughter.

She had another baby, a son, with the murderer stalker—the neighbor lady was babysitting him at the beginning of the episode because they were all out for the daughter’s birthday dinner. So she had one child with Rick and another child with the stalker. So again, good luck with that family dynamic.

[GHScorpiosRule]

16 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

She had another baby, a son, with the murderer stalker

Ohhhh right. I always keep forgetting that.

But some women keep their rapist's babies, so I don't think she'll blame her child for who his father ended up being.

[Xeliou66]

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Bumping up this thread to pay tribute to Frances Sternhagen, who played the mother who played the mother that ordered the hit on her dead son's murderer/best friend. Even though what she did was technically wrong, when you're right, you're right, and she WAS right that he killed him. That dodo daughter-in-law of hers could have saved herself a lot of grief if she'd taken the lady's warnings seriously instead of remarrying so soon. Especially after all the times he hit on her when her husband was still alive...

"But she was looooonely..."

Well, now she's alone again, and has to deal with the fact that she married and her husband's murderer and now has a child to constantly remind her. Good luck with that family dynamic.

That’s a great episode - I love the twist that the wife wasn’t having an affair with the killer and wasn’t an accomplice but that the killer was obsessed with her instead and killed her husband to get him out of the way. 

[Spartan Girl]

18 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Ohhhh right. I always keep forgetting that.

But some women keep their rapist's babies, so I don't think she'll blame her child for who his father ended up being.

Good point. But both children are always going to be a guilty reminder of what happened, especially how she almost let Rick’s daughter be adopted by his murderer.

Poor Estelle. I don’t suppose the fact that she was right would get an early parole? If nothing else, I wish we’d gotten to see Robin apologizing to Estelle for not believing her.

[andromeda331]

8 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

That’s a great episode - I love the twist that the wife wasn’t having an affair with the killer and wasn’t an accomplice but that the killer was obsessed with her instead and killed her husband to get him out of the way. 

So do I. Everyone assumed they were but it turned out she wasn't having an affair. He was a stalker. I love that he couldn't explain why he was in the same town she was for her reunion.

8 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Good point. But both children are always going to be a guilty reminder of what happened, especially how she almost let Rick’s daughter be adopted by his murderer.

Poor Estelle. I don’t suppose the fact that she was right would get an early parole? If nothing else, I wish we’d gotten to see Robin apologizing to Estelle for not believing her.

I do think that's crappy of her to let Rick adopt her daughter. Why would she do that? She loved her first husband, he loved his daughter so why would she want to do that? Ironically that's what set Esther off to hire a hitman. 

[Xeliou66]

3 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

So do I. Everyone assumed they were but it turned out she wasn't having an affair. He was a stalker. I love that he couldn't explain why he was in the same town she was for her reunion.

I do think that's crappy of her to let Rick adopt her daughter. Why would she do that? She loved her first husband, he loved his daughter so why would she want to do that? Ironically that's what set Esther off to hire a hitman. 

Jim was the killer husband who was going to adopt the daughter, Rick was the first husband who was Jim’s victim. I agree the Robin, the wife, was kind of dumb, how was she not suspicious of Jim when he was constantly flirting with her before Rick’s death and then Estelle was suspicious of Jim, it seems like Robin would’ve been as well. And yeah I wonder what would happen with the family going forward, mainly between the baby and the older daughter, at some point, both kids would know that one’s father murdered the other one’s father, and I can’t see them being a happily family with that. 

[Spartan Girl]

16 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Jim was the killer husband who was going to adopt the daughter, Rick was the first husband who was Jim’s victim. I agree the Robin, the wife, was kind of dumb, how was she not suspicious of Jim when he was constantly flirting with her before Rick’s death and then Estelle was suspicious of Jim, it seems like Robin would’ve been as well. And yeah I wonder what would happen with the family going forward, mainly between the baby and the older daughter, at some point, both kids would know that one’s father murdered the other one’s father, and I can’t see them being a happily family with that. 

Robin must have known, like Estelle, that Rick was terrified of heights, and yet she remained blissfully blind while Estelle immediately smelled a rat. No wonder Estelle started to think that Robin was in on it—her immediately jumping into a relationship with Jim and refusal to listen to Estelle did her no favors. And yeah, there was no reason to let Jim adopt Rick’s daughter—that was a shitty thing to do to Rick AND Estelle.

I wish I felt more sorry for her. Like Adam and Jack said, it must be tough to realize you married your stalker. But remarry in haste, repent in leisure, and now she’s got two innocent kids that are stuck in such a fucked up family situation that no amount of therapy is ever going to make okay.

Edited December 2, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

Like Arthur and Jack said, it must be tough to realize you married your stalker

Adam. Not Foghorn.

[andromeda331]

14 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Jim was the killer husband who was going to adopt the daughter, Rick was the first husband who was Jim’s victim. I agree the Robin, the wife, was kind of dumb, how was she not suspicious of Jim when he was constantly flirting with her before Rick’s death and then Estelle was suspicious of Jim, it seems like Robin would’ve been as well. And yeah I wonder what would happen with the family going forward, mainly between the baby and the older daughter, at some point, both kids would know that one’s father murdered the other one’s father, and I can’t see them being a happily family with that. 

I know but I don't like that Jim was going to adopt Rick's daughter. I don't like that Robin agreed to that. Why would she want to do that? I agree Robin's an idiot. Jim flirted with her while she was married to Rick and never put a stop to it. She never found it odd that he always showed up where she was or did his laundry with her? His apartment was several blocks away. Even if it's laundry was broken or whatever she didn't find it odd that he would go that many blocks to do his laundry with her? His behavoir was creepy and inappropriate and she did nothing.

I don't know how the kids are going to end up. Jim's son is going to grow up knowing that his father murdered his sister's father for his wife. But then again Mary I and Elizabeth I were close despite what Anne (and Henry did to Mary's mother and to Mary) it wasn't until really Mary was Queen that ended and that was due to their differences in religion and politics that destroyed it. So maybe there's hope?

[Xeliou66]

15 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

I know but I don't like that Jim was going to adopt Rick's daughter. I don't like that Robin agreed to that. Why would she want to do that? I agree Robin's an idiot. Jim flirted with her while she was married to Rick and never put a stop to it. She never found it odd that he always showed up where she was or did his laundry with her? His apartment was several blocks away. Even if it's laundry was broken or whatever she didn't find it odd that he would go that many blocks to do his laundry with her? His behavoir was creepy and inappropriate and she did nothing.

I don't know how the kids are going to end up. Jim's son is going to grow up knowing that his father murdered his sister's father for his wife. But then again Mary I and Elizabeth I were close despite what Anne (and Henry did to Mary's mother and to Mary) it wasn't until really Mary was Queen that ended and that was due to their differences in religion and politics that destroyed it. So maybe there's hope?

Yeah Robin had to be blind as a bat about Jim - she should’ve been able to see he had a fixation on her given how he was constantly flirting with her and trying to be near her. She should’ve listened to Estelle’s warnings about him. 
And I just don’t see that being a happy family dynamic given that eventually the siblings would learn one’s father murdered the other’s father, that’s just a recipe for a toxic family.
 

[Spartan Girl]

5 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Adam. Not Foghorn.

D’oh!! I thought I wrote Adam!

[Xeliou66]

24 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

I know but I don't like that Jim was going to adopt Rick's daughter. I don't like that Robin agreed to that. Why would she want to do that? I agree Robin's an idiot. Jim flirted with her while she was married to Rick and never put a stop to it. She never found it odd that he always showed up where she was or did his laundry with her? His apartment was several blocks away. Even if it's laundry was broken or whatever she didn't find it odd that he would go that many blocks to do his laundry with her? His behavoir was creepy and inappropriate and she did nothing.

I don't know how the kids are going to end up. Jim's son is going to grow up knowing that his father murdered his sister's father for his wife. But then again Mary I and Elizabeth I were close despite what Anne (and Henry did to Mary's mother and to Mary) it wasn't until really Mary was Queen that ended and that was due to their differences in religion and politics that destroyed it. So maybe there's hope?

Yeah Robin had to be blind as a bat about Jim - she should’ve been able to see he had a fixation on her given how he was constantly flirting with her and trying to be near her. She should’ve listened to Estelle’s warnings about him. 
And I just don’t see that being a happy family dynamic given that eventually the siblings would learn one’s father murdered the other’s father, that’s just a recipe for a toxic family situation. I’m not sure what would happen there.

[GHScorpiosRule]

23 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I wish we’d gotten to see Robin apologizing to Estelle for not believing her

If this were a soap opera or a serialized show, maybe. But Jim got caught and punished. While I feel for Estelle, and she was right, she still committed a crime.

35 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

D’oh!! I thought I wrote Adam!

😄 You can go back and edit!

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

I don't know how the kids are going to end up. Jim's son is going to grow up knowing that his father murdered his sister's father for his wife

Who’s going to tell him? Families have been known to keep their secrets. Robin can just keep quiet. Internet was in its infancy then.

[Spartan Girl]

41 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

If this were a soap opera or a serialized show, maybe. But Jim got caught and punished. While I feel for Estelle, and she was right, she still committed a crime.

She did, but Robin can still apologize to her. Estelle is owed that much.

42 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Who’s going to tell him? Families have been known to keep their secrets. Robin can just keep quiet. Internet was in its infancy then.

Unless the ordeal caused Robin to grow some brain cells, I don’t have much confidence in her parenting skills. I’m sure since she’s the kind of person that couldn’t be alone, she already went looking for husband number three not long after the trial.

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

If this were a soap opera or a serialized show, maybe. But Jim got caught and punished. While I feel for Estelle, and she was right, she still committed a crime.

😄 You can go back and edit!

Who’s going to tell him? Families have been known to keep their secrets. Robin can just keep quiet. Internet was in its infancy then.

At some point the kids would find out. I mean the older one knew Jim and would’ve had questions about why Jim was no longer a part of her life and I’m sure she knew her dad was deceased. She would’ve put two and two together eventually. Secrets like that always have a way of coming out, so it would only be a matter of time until both kids found out one’s dad killed the other’s dad.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Robin was smart enough to serve Jim with divorce papers after he was sentenced or whatever it was that Adam said.

I’d like to think Robin would be smarter if she ever gets married again.

[andromeda331]

9 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

If this were a soap opera or a serialized show, maybe. But Jim got caught and punished. While I feel for Estelle, and she was right, she still committed a crime.

😄 You can go back and edit!

Who’s going to tell him? Families have been known to keep their secrets. Robin can just keep quiet. Internet was in its infancy then.

It was a court case. Jim was on trial and convicted for Rick's murder and Robin testified against him which convict. Everyone would know. Sure the kids are young but there's no way their not going to find out. Maybe even Estelle.

[Door County Cherry]

I feel like I have to defend Robin here a bit.

I would never apologize to the person who set up a hit outside of the home where my children were.

I also don't blame her for thinking her mother-in-law was a bit crazy.  The police also ruled it an accident.  The MIL also thought there was an affair which Robin knew to be untrue so she saw no motive.  There might have been one weird moment but It sounds like she saw Jim as Rick's best friend who also became her friend.  Bad judgment?  Perhaps but most of us probably wouldn't think that someone we had no romantic relationship with, who we thought was a player, being willing to kill to create an opportunity for a romantic relationship. 

I also don't think she was betraying anyone by thinking of having her new husband adopt her oldest child (other than the fact that he turned out to be a murderer.)  He's the only father figure the child is going to remember and once she had a second child, it makes sense to have him be the legal father of both of the children in case something were to happen to Robin. 

 

[Spartan Girl]

4 hours ago, Door County Cherry said:

I also don't think she was betraying anyone by thinking of having her new husband adopt her oldest child (other than the fact that he turned out to be a murderer.)  He's the only father figure the child is going to remember and once she had a second child, it makes sense to have him be the legal father of both of the children in case something were to happen to Robin. 

 

Maybe that was what it felt like to her. But we know Jim really wanted to adopt the daughter because he was marking his territory, erasing all evidence of Rick. And it would surprise me one bit if he also couldn’t resist rubbing it in Estelle’s face, since she was the only one who knew he did it but couldn’t prove it.

And the only reason the police ruled Rick’s death an accident at first was because they didn’t do the autopsy, which I find astounding because even in accidents I’d assume that it was a routine procedure, just to be thorough.

14 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Robin was smart enough to serve Jim with divorce papers after he was sentenced or whatever it was that Adam said.

I’d like to think Robin would be smarter if she ever gets married again.

Well, you can only live in la la land for so long. But it still kills me that even after the belated autopsy proved that Rick had been struck by a blunt force object and not the fall, it took proving that Jim followed her to the conference on his own and not for a “work thing” that finally flipped the switch for Robin and finally made her see the truth. Hell, plenty of other women in her place wouldn’t have jumped right in with her dead husband’s best friend so soon after the death no matter how “sweet and supportive” he was.

But then again, Joe Goldberg keeps getting away with stalking and murder on You, so what do I know?

[Xeliou66]

14 hours ago, Door County Cherry said:

I feel like I have to defend Robin here a bit.

I would never apologize to the person who set up a hit outside of the home where my children were.

I also don't blame her for thinking her mother-in-law was a bit crazy.  The police also ruled it an accident.  The MIL also thought there was an affair which Robin knew to be untrue so she saw no motive.  There might have been one weird moment but It sounds like she saw Jim as Rick's best friend who also became her friend.  Bad judgment?  Perhaps but most of us probably wouldn't think that someone we had no romantic relationship with, who we thought was a player, being willing to kill to create an opportunity for a romantic relationship. 

I also don't think she was betraying anyone by thinking of having her new husband adopt her oldest child (other than the fact that he turned out to be a murderer.)  He's the only father figure the child is going to remember and once she had a second child, it makes sense to have him be the legal father of both of the children in case something were to happen to Robin. 

 

I agree about not apologizing to Estelle, she shouldn’t be forgiven for hiring a hitman, I didn’t really feel much sympathy for her, vigilantism is wrong. But I still think Robin was blind as a bat about Jim, Jim was constantly flirting with her and trying to be near her, she should’ve seen he had a fixation on her, and it took her long enough to wake up about Jim, even after Rodgers’ autopsy findings she still wouldn’t accept that Jim did it. Jim was creepy and Robin was blind to it. My sympathy went to the 2 kids, who would be very messed up after the whole ordeal, particularly the daughter since she knew Jim as a father figure. 

[andromeda331]

I do have sympathy for Estelle. Her son was murdered and no one believed her. Everyone from Robin to the police wrote her off as either someone who couldn't get over son's accidental death or crazy. She had to watch her daughter-in-law marry the man who murdered her son. She had to see him raising her son's child and see him every time she visited her granddaughter. Then she finds out he's adopting her granddaughter. That went on for a few years (I forget how long). Her son is being completely erased by the man who murdered him. That was the last straw. She had to do something. I disagree with vigilantism and her hiring a hit man. The man easily could have missed and shot her granddaughter or someone else. I just watched a show episode where the victims family decided to shoot one of the people he believed was responsible for his family member's death. But he shot the guy and the guy with him killing the latter. That person had nothing to do with the murder and wasn't even in the country when it happen. But he's dead and the guy trying to avenge his relative went to jail for along time. She could have raised money for another autopsy. Lots of victims families do that. But I do have sympathy for her.

[Spartan Girl]

6 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I do have sympathy for Estelle. Her son was murdered and no one believed her. Everyone from Robin to the police wrote her off as either someone who couldn't get over son's accidental death or crazy. She had to watch her daughter-in-law marry the man who murdered her son. She had to see him raising her son's child and see him every time she visited her granddaughter. Then she finds out he's adopting her granddaughter. That went on for a few years (I forget how long). Her son is being completely erased by the man who murdered him. That was the last straw. She had to do something. I disagree with vigilantism and her hiring a hit man. The man easily could have missed and shot her granddaughter or someone else. I just watched a show episode where the victims family decided to shoot one of the people he believed was responsible for his family member's death. But he shot the guy and the guy with him killing the latter. That person had nothing to do with the murder and wasn't even in the country when it happen. But he's dead and the guy trying to avenge his relative went to jail for along time. She could have raised money for another autopsy. Lots of victims families do that. But I do have sympathy for her.

This. I still think Robin should at least apologize for not believing Estelle and putting her through all that. She doesn’t have to forgive her for the hit itself.  I know what Estelle did was wrong and the hit could have gone wrong in a million ways. But it not been for any of that Robin would still be living in ignorant bliss with Jim. I would think that Robin would feel so horrified and disgusted by everything that she would at the very least felt guilty for dismissing Estelle’s warnings and putting her through all that.

And I’m sorry but I can’t blame Estelle for assuming there was an affair. I’m sure there were friends that side-eyed Robin and Jim for hooking up and marrying so soon after Rick’s death. When it’s that fast, people are going to naturally think something was going on for a while.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[GHScorpiosRule]

Poor Robin. You'd think SHE was the killer with all the dragging she's getting here.

And remarrying so soon after a loved one's death isn't unusual. One of my English teachers in high school's kids (who were teens) weren't pleased when he quickly remarried after his wife died of breast cancer.

I don't begrudge Robin marrying--is it any worse than that dude that divorced his wife (portrayed by the awesome Amy Carlson) after 9/11 and married his best friend's widow in season 13? 14? I think it was? Said friend having died in the Towers?

Edited December 5, 2023 by GHScorpiosRule

[WendyCR72]

The fact that Robin needed to have the fact that Jim was basically stalking her shoved in her face before she woke the hell up irked me.

I should probably feel badly for her. But I am fully Team Estelle here. I do not condone the vigilante justice/hitman angle, but as enumerated above in the post by @Spartan Girl, I at least understand why she felt she had no other option.

And those kids will be wrecked for life.

[Spartan Girl]

7 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

 

I don't begrudge Robin marrying--is it any worse than that dude that divorced his wife (portrayed by the awesome Amy Carlson) after 9/11 and married his best friend's widow in season 13? 14? I think it was? Said friend having died in the Towers?

Oh that guy was way worse, I’ll give you that. Seeing how him and his new wife screwed her out of child support, forcing her to go back to work full time and drove her to a breakdown…but that’s another season 😜 

[andromeda331]

5 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Oh that guy was way worse, I’ll give you that. Seeing how him and his new wife screwed her out of child support, forcing her to go back to work full time and drove her to a breakdown…but that’s another season 😜 

I agree. That guy was a scumbag. Don't forget they were also going for custody of the kids.  

[MarylandGirl]

16 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

The fact that Robin needed to have the fact that Jim was basically stalking her shoved in her face before she woke the hell up irked me.

I should probably feel badly for her. But I am fully Team Estelle here. I do not condone the vigilante justice/hitman angle, but as enumerated above in the post by @Spartan Girl, I at least understand why she felt she had no other option.

And those kids will be wrecked for life.

In Robin's defense, I think at times we ignore something because it would be too painful to think otherwise. And she might have been so overcome by grief from her first husband's death that Jim seemed like a comfort to her. And she wasn't in a mental place to wonder about all the coincidences. Though Jim also took advantage of this, pursuing her when she was vulnerable.

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, MarylandGirl said:

In Robin's defense, I think at times we ignore something because it would be too painful to think otherwise. And she might have been so overcome by grief from her first husband's death that Jim seemed like a comfort to her. And she wasn't in a mental place to wonder about all the coincidences. Though Jim also took advantage of this, pursuing her when she was vulnerable.

Very true.

At the end of the day, Robin really is only guilty of poor judgement. And she wound up paying for it in spades.

[TakomaSnark]

Watching Double Blind now. Great showcase for Jamie. 

[Xeliou66]

8 minutes ago, TakomaSnark said:

Watching Double Blind now. Great showcase for Jamie. 

I caught part of Jamie’s first 2 episodes last night before I fell asleep - she was a strong character from the start - I liked how she was very sharp and wasn’t afraid to voice her opinions. Her second episode, ID, is one of my all time favorites - such a great mystery with colorful characters throughout. I like Jamie a lot and it will forever enrage me how the revival crapped all over her for no reason.

[andromeda331]

9 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I caught part of Jamie’s first 2 episodes last night before I fell asleep - she was a strong character from the start - I liked how she was very sharp and wasn’t afraid to voice her opinions. Her second episode, ID, is one of my all time favorites - such a great mystery with colorful characters throughout. I like Jamie a lot and it will forever enrage me how the revival crapped all over her for no reason.

Yeah she was great from the beginning.  I do think her in School Daze was the start of crapping all over Jamie. I don't see her defending a school shooter and trying hard to keep him from a life in prison. That's not something Jamie would do and it felt too much likea repeat of Killerz when there was so many people worried about the murderer. She was more herself in the first return episode when she was defending a murderer. Even though she knew he was guilty and Jack thought he boxed her in to helping him. She instead resigns and advices her client to keep his mouth shut. That's exactly what she would do.  Although why Jack thought she would help him I don't know. I love Adam just laughing and not at all surprised that Jamie didn't betray her client. 

[Xeliou66]

49 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

Yeah she was great from the beginning.  I do think her in School Daze was the start of crapping all over Jamie. I don't see her defending a school shooter and trying hard to keep him from a life in prison. That's not something Jamie would do and it felt too much likea repeat of Killerz when there was so many people worried about the murderer. She was more herself in the first return episode when she was defending a murderer. Even though she knew he was guilty and Jack thought he boxed her in to helping him. She instead resigns and advices her client to keep his mouth shut. That's exactly what she would do.  Although why Jack thought she would help him I don't know. I love Adam just laughing and not at all surprised that Jamie didn't betray her client. 

I have to disagree with you about School Daze - even the worst murderers deserve competent legal counsel, and that’s what Jamie was doing, providing him a defense, it’s the only way the system can work. She didn’t do anything unethical or improper in that episode, she just did her job, and her job was defending her client. I thought it was done fine. 
But the revival took a steaming shit on her, implying she was involved in a murder conspiracy, NO WAY would the real Jamie Ross do that. I have no idea why they brought her back just to shit on her. Why couldn’t she have just been the presiding judge? The episode should’ve been written so that Jamie was the judge and there was an issue with a juror being tampered with/biased and so Jack had to approach her after hours about it, that would’ve been an awesome way to start the Mothership revival. Instead they did a piss poor job and trashed the character while ignoring continuity. 

[andromeda331]

On 12/28/2023 at 10:36 PM, Xeliou66 said:

I have to disagree with you about School Daze - even the worst murderers deserve competent legal counsel, and that’s what Jamie was doing, providing him a defense, it’s the only way the system can work. She didn’t do anything unethical or improper in that episode, she just did her job, and her job was defending her client. I thought it was done fine. 
continuity. 

Agree to disagree.

Quote

 

But the revival took a steaming shit on her, implying she was involved in a murder conspiracy, NO WAY would the real Jamie Ross do that. I have no idea why they brought her back just to shit on her. Why couldn’t she have just been the presiding judge? The episode should’ve been written so that Jamie was the judge and there was an issue with a juror being tampered with/biased and so Jack had to approach her after hours about it, that would’ve been an awesome way to start the Mothership revival. Instead they did a piss poor job and trashed the character while ignoring

 

They really did. When I heard Jamie was going to be in the first episode I was excited to see her as a judge. Instead they put her back down as a lawyer and had her do something she would never do and for no reason. I wanted to see her as a judge and interacting with Jack and the other lawyers. That would have been really great to see. Not the trash we got.

 

[Xeliou66]

The start of season 7 was on WE today, this is such an awesome season, and it got off to a great start with Causa Mortis and ID.

Causa Mortis has a great investigation, I liked how they found the car and realized the girl got it from her fiancé - both Fernando and her girlfriend were scum, Fernando bashed a woman’s head just for her car and his girlfriend didn’t care, she was more upset over losing her car. Fuck both of them. The field I need saying “he’s not evil” was just pathetic. The ending of the tape being played in court while the husband and daughter of the victim cry is very memorable. It was a good twist how the lawyers conspired to play the DA’s office knowing the evidence would be suppressed, and how Jack had to use the feds to get the fiancé to flip. 
It was also a nice intro to Jamie, she was a good ADA from the start. Though I did like how Jack passionately said that prosecuting the killer was their responsibility when Jamie wanted to hand the case to the feds. 
And while I’ve expressed my dislike for Aftershock many times, I did like how they handled the follow up to it in this episode, moving on from it but acknowledging Claire’s death a couple of times in subtle ways. I especially liked how there was no beef between Jack and Lennie over what happened with Claire’s death, I liked how the ending scene showed that both wanted the other not to feel guilt over what happened.

ID, the second episode of the season, is one of my all time favorites, such a great, twisted and intricate plot. It was a great twist that the killer was impersonating her sister and killed her to take her identity. She was so cold blooded, saying her sister “didn’t have a life”. There were a lot of colorful and entertaining characters in the case - the Jersey cop enjoying a fancy meal was funny, the elevator operator was colorful, and the receptionist who was rambling to them was funny also. Judge Marks was completely off his rocker, his comments to Jamie were way out of line and he was incredibly biased towards the defense. It was satisfying seeing the chief judge come down on him and take him off the case, telling him he was out of line and that he wasn’t supposed to care who won. I loved seeing Adam confront Marks and go to the chief judge when Marks wouldn’t step down. The scene where Jack is in the holding cell and Adam visits him is hilarious - the look on Adam’s face when Jack tells him to wear silk is awesome, as is Adam telling the murderer to sit down. It was always nice when Adam got a heavy role. It’s a near perfect episode.

Season 7 is downright awesome overall.

 

 

[Xeliou66]

Season 7 has so many great episodes, saw a nice run of them on BBC America this week

Matrimony is a strong plot with interesting suspects - it was a good twist that the young wife’s mom was the killer. The trial scenes were good, and it’s interesting that it was one of the few times they brought an innocent person to trial, and the jury got the right verdict by acquitting. Arthur Gold did a good job defending his client, he was smug but a very effective and smart attorney, a worthy adversary for Stone in earlier episodes and McCoy in this one. It makes me laugh when the wife calls Briscoe and Curtis “Leonard” and “Rey” casually when they come to talk to her. And the killer mom’s rant at the end about how they might have to go back to Arkansas and be a “dancing naked idiot family” was funny.

Working Mom is a great episode as well, really good investigation and trial. It was an interesting case about the hooker housewives. I didn’t buy the killer’s claim of rape and I’m glad the jury didn’t either, as Jack said in his closing this was a case of a woman executing her blackmailer, not defending herself from an assault. The victim was sleazy but he didn’t deserve to be murdered, he used blackmail to get sex but he never used violence. It was clear that Hillary would go to any length to hide her secret life from her family and friends. Jack gave a strong closing and he exposed the husband as a liar in his cross. A very good and in-depth investigation as well with Briscoe/Curtis tracking down the credit card charges.

Both Matrimony and Working Mom are great episodes, most of season 7 is fantastic. 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

On 12/3/2023 at 8:23 PM, andromeda331 said:

I do have sympathy for Estelle. Her son was murdered and no one believed her. Everyone from Robin to the police wrote her off as either someone who couldn't get over son's accidental death or crazy. She had to watch her daughter-in-law marry the man who murdered her son.

"Who was I? Just the mother, crazed with grief."

Notice the parallel with Survivor, even if it's not an exact match. Like Judith Sandler, Estelle was driven to the end of her wits by a situation she didn't create but had to watch unfold, and no one would listen to her. Jim must have been working up to adopting her granddaughter for a while, the final step in "taking over" the life her son should have had, and Robin was at best blind to the signs of anything being wrong or willfully ignoring them.  I'm not saying she was right, I'm saying I understand.