S07.E09: Useful Idiot

[lostmydamnmind]

On 4/9/2018 at 6:18 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I get that she's a kid so she's not going to be part of some international espionage case (which is a good thing) but that's exactly why having Carrie pregnant with Brody's baby was a huge mistake from the writers. I get that people with jobs like Carrie's still have families and normal day to day problems but I have no interest in watching a show like Homeland for fascinating tidbits like Carrie picking Franny up from school.

ITA - we saw how difficult it was to balance this life when we saw Saul's marriage disintegrate. They can't be married to the job and a person at home, no matter how patient that person (Mira) has been over the years. They were already doing a good job illustrating how Carrie had trouble balancing a relationship with her job and diagnosis, without adding in this poor kid, which as someone who had a less than attentive mother, is painful to watch. Unless Franny is going to become a bigger driver of the story going forward, I don't know why they ever added the character into the mix.

As an aside (and putting on my tinfoil hat), I've never been convinced Franny was actually Brody's kid. Remember in S3 when Carrie was deep under cover in the psych hospital, was discharged and had the one night stand with the random dude who she then robbed of some cash the next morning? Dude resembled Brody pretty closely, IMO. And it was not long after that when we first saw her taking a pregnancy test.

[Loandbehold]

On 4/9/2018 at 4:33 AM, dwmarch said:

Yevgeny tells Dante "you can trust me, I wouldn't poison you" about five minutes after shooting his homeboy in the parking lot for the crime of wanting to drive him to the airport.

Yevgeny didn't shoot the guy for that. He shot him so he'd have a reason for the ER personnel to let him inside (whether that would actually happen is irrelevant so long as Yevgeny thought this would work).

[teddysmom]

Well they dialed the batshit crazy up to 11 on this one. 

If they can't protect a witness any better than that...  I thought he had 24-7 guards. But Not Oleg can just waltz in and close the blinds. 

FFS Carrie enough with fighting your sister over Franny.  

I can't believe she thought everything would go smoothly. Like some Russian wouldn't realize the trigger wasn't them? 

[meira.hand]

On 4/9/2018 at 11:33 AM, dwmarch said:

Yevgeny tells Dante "you can trust me, I wouldn't poison you" about five minutes after shooting his homeboy in the parking lot for the crime of wanting to drive him to the airport.

He shot Clayton to give him a way into the hospital and smeared his blood on his clothes to have an excuse to get into the changing rooms and get an orderly uniform and security card.

[Lady Iris]

4 hours ago, lostmydamnmind said:

Unless Franny is going to become a bigger driver of the story going forward, I don't know why they ever added the character into the mix.

Gawd! Miserable wretched Dana Brody was enough to last me an entire series. Here's hoping Franny stays sweet.

[slowpoked]

5 hours ago, lostmydamnmind said:

ITA - we saw how difficult it was to balance this life when we saw Saul's marriage disintegrate. They can't be married to the job and a person at home, no matter how patient that person (Mira) has been over the years. They were already doing a good job illustrating how Carrie had trouble balancing a relationship with her job and diagnosis, without adding in this poor kid, which as someone who had a less than attentive mother, is painful to watch. Unless Franny is going to become a bigger driver of the story going forward, I don't know why they ever added the character into the mix.

This. I thought that was already complex enough, and there's a lot of layers than can be explored in those - how someone like Carrie who has the diagnosis she has can take a high-stress, fast-paced working environment like the CIA. You think of CIA officials as tough-as-nails, always on top of things type. So how does someone like Carrie manage that and be in the position that she was? I thought was enough on Carrie's personal life side.

I think it also didn't help that her father died (with the actor passing away in real life). I think he grounds Carrie in a different way. I wonder if writing Franny in was something to make up for that. 

[Bannon]

1 hour ago, slowpoked said:

This. I thought that was already complex enough, and there's a lot of layers than can be explored in those - how someone like Carrie who has the diagnosis she has can take a high-stress, fast-paced working environment like the CIA. You think of CIA officials as tough-as-nails, always on top of things type. So how does someone like Carrie manage that and be in the position that she was? I thought was enough on Carrie's personal life side.

I think it also didn't help that her father died (with the actor passing away in real life). I think he grounds Carrie in a different way. I wonder if writing Franny in was something to make up for that. 

I think Carrie was pregnant prior to James Rebhorn dying, but Rebhorn had been fighting melanoma for years, so maybe his death was anticipated. I do think it more likely that the writers just couldn't resist the temptation for their two major characters to become lovers, and then have a child. It's not as if the writing of this show has ever been especially disciplined at any time. The story would have been better served with showrunners demanding something better.

[Son of Saul]

9 hours ago, lostmydamnmind said:

 Unless Franny is going to become a bigger driver of the story going forward, I don't know why they ever added the character into the mix.

 

Maybe she will get kidnapped and taken to France so Liam Neeson can guest star for an episode or two?

[atlantaloves]

Works for me Son of Saul....cause this show totally sucks, I really hate Carrie, she is a crazy flying bitch. 

[Ottis]

I realized during this episode that I don’t care about any of this. I enjoyed Saul’s meeting with Paley, because I love how Saul works when he is right. Assuming he is. The rest? Don’t care. I fast forwarded through a lot of this. The woman helping Saul is wiser than Carrie. Not sure I’ll be back. This entire set up has no sense of risk, no sense of threat, it’s a procedural drama about media musings. 

[Son of Saul]

2 hours ago, atlantaloves said:

Works for me Son of Saul....cause this show totally sucks, I really hate Carrie, she is a crazy flying bitch. 

The show would be a million times better if Saul was the main character.

[atlantaloves]

You are so right, I actually watch it because of Saul now. I love Manny. I do miss Rupert Friend so much, what a character, and what a beautiful actor.  

[roughing it]

The show would have been better if Carrie didn't have to be so crazy, just to give Claire Danes the opportunity to chew up all the scenery and get her signature chin wobbles in.  And to get those Emmy nominations.  But it's Crazy Carrie, all the crazy time. 

It would be more realistic, and enjoyable, if Carrie actually controlled her illness with proper medications, and once in a while we see her illness affect her.  The show would be much better with competent Carrie, rather than Crazy Carrie.  It's tiresome!

[Lady Iris]

On ‎4‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 7:43 PM, Son of Saul said:

Unless Franny is going to become a bigger driver of the story going forward,

*cough* Driver? More like speedbump.

[dwmarch]

43 minutes ago, Lady Iris said:

*cough* Driver? More like speedbump.

Too soon!

(said while laughing and trying to figure out who I'm going to bunk with in Hell)

[Bannon]

On 4/11/2018 at 4:53 PM, Ottis said:

I realized during this episode that I don’t care about any of this. I enjoyed Saul’s meeting with Paley, because I love how Saul works when he is right. Assuming he is. The rest? Don’t care. I fast forwarded through a lot of this. The woman helping Saul is wiser than Carrie. Not sure I’ll be back. This entire set up has no sense of risk, no sense of threat, it’s a procedural drama about media musings. 

I'm pretty much hate watching it at this point. I can't believe there is going to be a season 8. Lemme guess. Carrie will experience conflict between her professional life, and her role as a mother, while managing the chemical imbalances in her brain.

[Mackey]

I didn’t think the bad hospital guarding of Dante was such silly writing. They had guarding around the ER rather than in front of his specific spot. The medical staff probably does not watch Homeland and neither they nor the guards could have possibly imagined that someone would shoot someone to break into the ER. I didn’t think of it and I’ve been watching that guy.

[Jextella]

On 4/10/2018 at 8:49 AM, lostmydamnmind said:

ITA - we saw how difficult it was to balance this life when we saw Saul's marriage disintegrate. They can't be married to the job and a person at home, no matter how patient that person (Mira) has been over the years. They were already doing a good job illustrating how Carrie had trouble balancing a relationship with her job and diagnosis, without adding in this poor kid, which as someone who had a less than attentive mother, is painful to watch. Unless Franny is going to become a bigger driver of the story going forward, I don't know why they ever added the character into the mix.

As an aside (and putting on my tinfoil hat), I've never been convinced Franny was actually Brody's kid. Remember in S3 when Carrie was deep under cover in the psych hospital, was discharged and had the one night stand with the random dude who she then robbed of some cash the next morning? Dude resembled Brody pretty closely, IMO. And it was not long after that when we first saw her taking a pregnancy test.

2

I don't mind the show addressing the real world.  That's part of the push and pull of that line of work.  And it brings up ethical issues that make me think, e.g. kid vs. democracy.

Fascinating idea that Franny might not be Brody's.

[Bannon]

17 hours ago, Mackey said:

I didn’t think the bad hospital guarding of Dante was such silly writing. They had guarding around the ER rather than in front of his specific spot. The medical staff probably does not watch Homeland and neither they nor the guards could have possibly imagined that someone would shoot someone to break into the ER. I didn’t think of it and I’ve been watching that guy.

They are there to keep Dante from being killed. That entails being around Dante. Oops.

[dwmarch]

On 4/13/2018 at 6:39 PM, Mackey said:

I didn’t think the bad hospital guarding of Dante was such silly writing. They had guarding around the ER rather than in front of his specific spot. The medical staff probably does not watch Homeland and neither they nor the guards could have possibly imagined that someone would shoot someone to break into the ER. I didn’t think of it and I’ve been watching that guy.

For me, it's from watching too much 24, where any bad guy could kill any important secondary character so long as it was in a hospital. The worst example was one of the later seasons where Jack had to beg to be allowed to question a suspect. "I promise I won't kill him even though I really, really want to!" Cue a bad guy dropping from above the ceiling tiles or some shit, murdering the witness and leaving Jack standing there looking guilty as hell.

In this episode we are told there's a number of plainclothes guards in the lobby and that the wing where Dante is being held is closed off. Now who are these guards? They could be local PD or they could be muscle Saul has recruited for his off-books intelligence agency. In either case, when they are told "guard this goddamn door" that is the only thing they should be doing. A (non) random GSW comes in and they lose track of the blood-soaked dude who accompanied the victim. Is this because they were too busy peering over the shoulders of the trauma surgeons and they got distracted? That would be some bullshit right there. Then again, Saul was busy with other matters so maybe Carrie recruited them in which case they were probably trying to fight custody battles, balance their finances and keep their mental health issues in order simultaneously while also trying to save the world by performing a boring and repetitive task. Now it makes sense.

[Pallas]

Best Buy has better security. What we saw outside Dante's door was one agent who was taking a leak when Yevgeny arrived with his red-flag everything, from his manner to whatever shoes he was wearing to his non-matching ID to his Russian accent. (If every ID card in the hospital can open the door of the wing -- which seems unlikely in itself, in this situation -- then yes, two people posted outside/inside the door of the room, along with video monitoring.) For Yevgeny to successfully use the same tactic twice in the same season is even more unimaginative than it is unfeasible.

It seems most likely that Dante's dead, though all we know is that the agent with a shy bladder seemed to say so to the delusional Carrie. (Did he say that, and if so, was he speaking of Yevgeny.) And that Dante was not only turned but knowingly working for the Russians, which seems...odd. What, he preferred how they handled their own Afghanistani misadventure? Their recent operations in Ukraine or Crimea? Putin's support of Assad?

And how, anyway, does that translate into opposition to President Keane? Last season's storyline had the U.S. defense/intelligence dark forces mount a pre-emptive coup against her because she refused to commit herself or the country against Iran and Syria, Russia's allies in the MIddle East. This season she resisted an airstrike on an Iranian convoy delivering weapons to Syria. Or is Dante simply opposing what he sees as both the fecklessness and immorality of U.S. actions (a view shared at different times by Carrie, Saul and Quinn)? In his despair after Kabul, was Dante drawn to a global power that at least seemed to have a clear aim, and strategy, and led by a world-class chief -- no politician, but rather, a supremely self-assured and savvy fellow spook? 

So Dante died to save Brody's daughter. In a way. It's not that Yevgeny planned to leave him alive, but Dante's only chance was to stall Yevgeny long enough for the agent guarding him from a restroom to wash his hands, wipe around the sink and change the roll in the paper towel dispenser -- don't leave a mess for the next guy --- before returning to his post. Meanwhile, back in the unguarded room with the only witness in the world, Yevgeny's actions were also unhurried. As deliberate as a certain kind of disappointed father, more often found on TV than in real life. His preference for twisting the knife to wielding the pillow was more stagecraft than spycraft; in fact, his whole persona seems a lot more 19th-century Russian literature than either "old" 20th -- or "new" 21st-century Russian operative. Which may be the point but I doubt it. 

[Son of Saul]

On 13/04/2018 at 2:47 AM, roughing it said:

The show would have been better if Carrie didn't have to be so crazy, just to give Claire Danes the opportunity to chew up all the scenery and get her signature chin wobbles in.  And to get those Emmy nominations.  But it's Crazy Carrie, all the crazy time. 

It would be more realistic, and enjoyable, if Carrie actually controlled her illness with proper medications, and once in a while we see her illness affect her.  The show would be much better with competent Carrie, rather than Crazy Carrie.  It's tiresome!

She does like a chin wobble. She also loves a wet eye and s nasal snort. 

Edited April 16, 2018 by Son of Saul

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Clip: what did you do?

[John Potts]

So glad that Team America (World Secret Police!) got a win this week. Not a complete triumph, but the USA is at least on the right track. Nice to see Saul adopting the highly unorthodox tactic of telling the truth and that Senator Paley was patriotic enough to do what was right, even though was ambitious and it would politically damage him (though I don't believe he would bring up impeachment himself). And loved "Useful Idiot"!

Oh Dante - you went from believing one spy who was lying to him... to trusting another spy who was lying to him. And Yevgeny didn't even sleep with him (that we know of)!

On ‎09‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 5:45 PM, snarts said:

One single tweet can take down Yvevgeny's entire network in the US?

I buy that. It's an Emergency "Get out NOW!" code, so it should be simple.

On ‎10‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 2:49 PM, lostmydamnmind said:

Unless Franny is going to become a bigger driver of the story going forward, I don't know why they ever added the character into the mix.

 

On ‎11‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 12:43 AM, Son of Saul said:

Maybe she will get kidnapped and taken to France so Liam Neeson can guest star for an episode or two?

"I don't know who you are, but if you don't let my daughter go, I will find you, sleep with you and COMPLETELY RUIN YOUR LIFE!"

[gallimaufry]

I liked the tweet trap door and the useful idiot motif, plus that was a great creepy ending but it's difficult to see what the producers' endgame is here.  The Russian operation is now blown to pieces so it's hard to see where the plot goes from here.  If Dante is dead, it seems like a waste of a good character; if he isn't, it seems like a weird/overly-convenient plot move.  Keane and Wellington are hugely unsympathetic; so is the Senator.  Whatever happens to them... who cares, frankly.  Carrie is hugely unsympathetic because of her maltreatment of her daughter who probably isn't dead but you never know.  There are some good elements this season but the only stakes left right now seem to be Carrie's sanity and I'm not sure I'm all that interested in three episodes of mental ward Carrie.  Shame because some elements of this season had promise.

[Roseanna]

On ‎9‎.‎4‎.‎2018 at 7:20 AM, Joimiaroxeu said:

Ugh, Carrie is the worst. AFAIC she should not only lose custody of Frannie she should be forbidden from ever seeing her again. She is the biggest danger to both Frannie's mental and physical health.

 

On ‎9‎.‎4‎.‎2018 at 7:25 AM, HollyG said:

Carrie needs to relinquish custody of Frannie and check into the hospital. Hopefully she will find a drug that works for her. When she is mentally stable again, maybe she can see Frannie part time. But I think Carrie's sister & her family should be the primary care givers.  She also needs to stop working for the CIA, Saul, POTUS and anything that has to do with working undercover/spy type of work. All of that work seems to trigger these psychotic episodes in her. It's way too stressful for someone with a fragile psyche to cope with.

 

On ‎9‎.‎4‎.‎2018 at 9:14 AM, tpplay said:

All I freaking care about is that Carrie is the WORST. MOTHER. ON. THE PLANET.

The WORST.

No way I could give a - whatever - about her at the last minute oh I've got to go grab my kid - shenanigans   She doesn't deserve to raise that kid and this episode ROARS its agreement.

Geez.  What more does she have to do to prove herself the worst freaking mother in the world?

Is there anyone out there who gives a fuck about whether she gets to keep her kid?

I think any judge in the world would remove that poor girl from her mother's custody

Jesus.

Carrie really thinks that her taking Frannie to Dante's was a mistake of the same kind every mother sometimes makes. And after that she makes a new mistake by believing that she can take care of Frannie during the operation, even taking her to the same place with the dangerous Russian agent, She just can't understand that it's not about her feelings but Frannie's needs that are the most important. Plus, sometimes the greatest love is to give over the loved one to somebody who can better take care of her.

On ‎9‎.‎4‎.‎2018 at 5:30 PM, Bannon said:

At this point, I think it can be definitively stated that this show would have been better if A) Carrie and Brody had never become lovers, and B) if, after recovering from the fiasco of storytelling that culminated in the bombing at the CIA, they had kept Carrie out of the United States completely, avoiding any characters like a U.S. President, which hardly any show pulls off credibly. Yes, it was oh-so-tempting to have a Russian election manipulation story arc which mirrored today's headlines, but this show has always been better after season one when Carrie was posted overseas.

I liked Carrie and Brody as lovers, but it would have been better if Carrie had shot him because he had fooled her and really been the bomber? 

On ‎9‎.‎4‎.‎2018 at 5:36 PM, Shades of Scarlet said:

The fact that the Russians were trying to stop NotOleg to avoid an international incident and even threatened to burn him themselves was fascinating.  

Yevgeny may have been a master spy but now acts like a fool. His master are quite right by ordering him home (in such cases you cut your losses and plan the next game) but even if he wasn't, he is the boss and sees the big picture. By becomick amock Yevgeny can make great harm to Russian interests (I hope). 

[Roseanna]

On ‎10‎.‎4‎.‎2018 at 4:49 AM, TVbitch said:

Hard to believe Dante looking so devastated when Oleg told him Carrie played him. 

Why not? It wasn't only that Carrie had fooled Dante with her sympathy to tell the code but the poisoning could have killed him. (I must confess that I never suspected it although I wondered why Carrie suggested that Dante would get a lawyer.)

All that meant that both Carrie and Yevgeni were as bad and Dante could trust nobody in the world. 

[Roseanna]

On ‎15‎.‎4‎.‎2018 at 5:04 PM, Pallas said:

And that Dante was not only turned but knowingly working for the Russians, which seems...odd. What, he preferred how they handled their own Afghanistani misadventure? Their recent operations in Ukraine or Crimea? Putin's support of Assad?

It's not odd because it's not political. Dante was sent home from Kabul and he was bitter towards Carrie who had been promoted despite a bad operation (so far he knew). After that the Russians had an easy job: you gave all to your country but it doesn't value you but we do…

In addition, Dante was Simone's agent and on the basis of cameras at Wellington's she seems to be pretty good in sex and Dante was lonely and divorced.

All in all, I think he loved how easy it was to fool Carrie.  

[Roseanna]

On ‎17‎.‎4‎.‎2018 at 10:11 PM, gallimaufry said:

The Russian operation is now blown to pieces

Is it? Simone is in Russia and Dante is (likely) dead, so there is nobody to testify for Saul's theory.

Putting all the blame on the Russians is too easy as it ousts all the things presented in the last season: the divided country, who will lead US foreign policy (the CIA versus the legitimately elected President), the war on terror without end...  

[Roseanna]

On ‎9‎.‎4‎.‎2018 at 7:57 AM, scrb said:

James Bond is not only suave, he doesn't bring his personal problems to his work or his work to his home life.  So the show is saying in essence female spies have it much tougher than male spies?  Or that they can't be as good spies as men because they're emotionally unstable?

I don't think that it's because Carrie is a woman but because she is both unstable and single-minded which prevents her to make rational decisions. Either she concentrates totally on her work and then she forgets Frannie's existence and/or wellbeing, f.ex. bringing her to Dante's home instead of returning her to her sister before visiting Dante. Or she concentrates totally on the danger to lose Frannies custody  and then she forgets that she is middle of the operation and goes to fetch Frannie from schoold instead of realizing that until the operation is over and her mental problems cured, it's better that Frannie is taken care by her sister.  

Also, Carrie is used to endanger herself without hesitation and disobeying orders not to do so. She has never learned that she has no right to endanger Frannie. Still less she understands the effects on Frannie - she always belittles them.

[Refresh]

Wrong episode oops! 

Edited September 20, 2018 by Refresh