S07.E16: Breadcrumbs

[formerlyfreedom]

Henry grapples with an important decision when a job prospect in New York threatens to take him away from Jacinda and Lucy, but a revelation in the case of The Candy Killer could make it even harder to leave Hyperion Heights. Meanwhile, Margot confides in Tilly, and in a flashback, Hook helps Henry find a way to prove himself to Ella.

 

[mythoughtis]

Tonight’s Hyperion Heights portion of the episode was pretty good. Tonight’s fairytale land part of the episode was the fakiest fairy tale of all 7 seasons.

Jacinda/ Ella is the  most whiny  ‘heroine’ ever

Edited April 7, 2018 by mythoughtis

[tennisgurl]

I will give my full thoughts on this episode once I stop laughing over the fact that grown up Henry is still so desperate to be a hero, and so whiny about it, that Hook actually got his old buddies to do a whole LARP adventure for Henry so he could be the big hero! 

Yeah thats not why he said he did it, but thats my story and I`m sticking to it. 

Edited April 7, 2018 by tennisgurl

[Shanna Marie]

I missed the first five minutes because of a weather alert (amusingly enough, I was getting really irked at the weatherman because he was spending more time recapping what had happened and showing pictures of hail from half an hour earlier, and it turned out he thought he was on Facebook Live and didn't realize this was a TV cut-in during prime time, so as soon as he realized he was on TV, he cut it off to go back to programming), so I assume I was spared a scene of Henry whining about not being a hero, or whatever. At least he figured it out, but geeze, you'd expect a guy his age to have figured that out long ago. It would also have been nice if we'd seen any bit of relationship development with him and Ella for us to give a damn whether they worked it out.

Also, is there actually a big podcasting company that would hire some random guy who just started a podcast to produce podcasts for them? I didn't know there were podcasting networks, other than the scam things where you're basically buying an infomercial for yourself. I don't think these writers know what podcasting is really about.

But Tilly and Margot were rather charming, and it was nice to see Margot wise up and look at things from her mother's point of view. Rogers and Tilly are also very sweet together. He just radiates "Dad" with her.

And I will confess to being amused by the concept of Whook being able to get Blackbeard to cooperate in a scam like that.

Oh, and we have confirmation that Henry really did write his main character as having his name. Does he realize he could relate to the main character no matter what the character's name was? He really and truly wrote a Mary Sue author insert.

[hockeycat400]

How can someone as naive and dim as Henry, manage to survive as an adult?!   "Yep...I will just leave my car under a bridge, right by some homeless guys and their fire in a can..."

And shouldn't his session with Weaver be considered confidential?    "Oh, I will just tell anyone who's interested, all about my interview with the police!  Sure why not?!"

And during the flashback proposal, he tells Ella she's the bravest woman he's ever known?!  Um, no...that would be your MOTHER.  And even your GRANDMOTHER.  You know, Emma and Snow?

[cappoe]

Okay is this the episode where they got their cancellation announcement. Because it explains why all of sudden they're referencing the original show and Emma, The Charmings, and OG Hook all within one episode.  

Before this episode Henry couldn't even be bothered to even reference his own dang mother.

The anti-chemistry couple strikes again, they literally have the worse chemistry I've ever seen on TV. It's just awful, and they chemistry tested with each other and still got the parts, HOW?!

Edited April 7, 2018 by cappoe

[Rumsy4]

I missed the first fifteen minute, but enjoyed the rest of it. I freaking LOVED that WHook had convinced Blackbeard (WBlackbeard?) to play along in his scheme to get Henry to stop being such a glory hound. WHook seemed to be trying to emulate the other Hook, and since he's actually met the other guy, it was kind of sweet. Smee and his obvious hero-worship of Whook was adorable.

HH Rogers was great with Tilly and his scenes with Sabine. If they had gone with the Rogers-Sabine romance, it may have been interesting. I found Tilly/Margot scenes cute as well.

Henry definitely ought not to have told Nick about the investigation. He's not very bright, it he?

Murderella is the "best and bravest" woman he knows? You're a hopeless idiot, Henry. 

I loved Rumple's talk with Henry. This is the first time they've had a real heart to heart after that S3B cut scene, where Henry wanted his "New York" memories back and leave Storybrooke. 
 

Edited April 7, 2018 by Rumsy4

[cappoe]

6 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

 

HH Rogers was great with Tilly and his scenes with Sabine. If they had gone with the Rogers-Sabine romance, it may have been interesting. I found Tilly/Margot scenes cute as well.

 

I have to disagree. If there's one thing these people did right with S7 is not give Rogers a romance. It was not necessary and it was way too soon. So I'm glad they did not go there, plus all the controversy and backlash they did not need not when they were already struggling to maintain viewers.

[tennisgurl]

I admit, I do like that WHook convinced Blackbeard and his whole crew to take part in this scheme, I actually didnt see it coming, and it made me laugh. Although, Henry was really getting on my nerves in the EF, going on about how his mom and grandpa faught dragons and such. Its not like they did that because they wanted glory, they did that because they had to because lives depended on it. Did he never pick up on that? Its good that he learned the lesson eventually, but he really hadn't gotten there yet? Also, Murderella is the best and bravest women he has ever known? Maybe show that sometime, show and dont just tell. 

I do still enjoy Tilly and Hook, he really radiates dad around her, and Tilly and Margot were also quite cute. They have very natural chemistry, and I actually am interested in seeing them reunite, unlike Henry and Murderella. I also could maybe get into Sabine/Rogers, but I also think not giving him a romance was a good call. 

In what universe does Henry's lame podcast get picked up by a big podcast company in NYC? How many listeners could he possibly have for his boring stories about his boring romance and a convoluted real estate scheme? Most podcast companies will only pick someone up after they have a ton of listeners or buzz, how much does Henry have? I kept waiting for the reveal that, like with WHook, this was just someone faking an adventure for Henry's benefit, to get him out of town for whatever reason, or make him feel better. Also, Henry actually named the main character in his book after himself? He really is massive level Mary Sue, isnt he? And kind of a dumbass. Who tells their buddy who they've only known for a few weeks details of a police investigation? And who hears that your needed to catch a serial killer, and just goes "Well, I would help, but I've got a crappy podcast to work on. Bye Felecia" and would have kept going without a sign from "the universe" or whatever? Is this "real" Henry, or "cursed" Henry, because they both seem like the exact same guy. 

Trying to figure out how magic works in this show gives me a headache. So, Henry has a magic ring that can randomly stop a giant whirlpool? Did I miss where they explained how that works? Yeah yeah yeah. A wizard did it. And this is all in the WishVerse? Or is this Murderellas verse? Or the original EF? Can you give us some hints, please?

I did actually like the conversation between Rumple and Henry. They haven't really had a scene in ages, and it was nice to see that connection again, even if Henry has no clue who he is. I always thought their relationship was rather underdeveloped, but had some really interesting moments here and there. 

So now Nick/Jack/Hansel/whoever is going full on mustache twirling villain, huh? Even though it sounds like he has a decent reason to be pissed, and the witch cult seems to be evil by all account, I guess he will be our new NEW big bad until Gothel and the coat hangers get their shit together and do something. More of the same really. The victims are irredeemable monsters and the villains are the innocent victims. Christ, this show is predictable. Its Greg and Percival all over again. Can we just have ONE DAMN SEASON without victim blaming and the villains getting all their evil deeds wiped away?!?! 

Edited April 7, 2018 by tennisgurl

[Rumsy4]

28 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Trying to figure out how magic works in this show gives me a headache. So, Henry has a magic ring that can randomly stop a giant whirlpool?

It was Davy Jones' ring that he had given his lover. So, Henry figured out that Davy wanted the ring back. 

Edited April 7, 2018 by Rumsy4

[tennisgurl]

6 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

It was Davy's Jones' ring that he had given his lover. So, Henry figured out that Davy wanted the ring back. 

Ah, gotcha! I knew it was Davy Jones ring, so that makes sense. Also, that makes me really want to see someone fight Davy Jones. Or drink with him. That sounds awesome.

[Rumsy4]

I will never understand why the show did not go with Davy Jones as Hook's father. 

[Souris]

3 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

I will never understand why the show did not go with Davy Jones as Hook's father. 

Because people wanted to see that, and A&E would rather eat hot coals than deliver what people wanted to see.

[Rumsy4]

I really like how Alice/Tilly is written. She does come across like a girl who grew up isolated, and therefore sees things differently. Like the actual-heart shaped beignet and having to be explained the "T" goes at the end of Margot, and repeating that to Rogers. Rogers-Tilly is once again way more believable as a parent-child relationship than Roni-Henry. I wish the writers had course-corrected way earlier in the season and delivered more of this dynamic and more of Alice instead of whatever it is they did in the first half of the season.

Sabine was refreshing too. Now that it's not her centric, she not the writers' definition of "badass" anymore. 

16 minutes ago, Souris said:

Because people wanted to see that, and A&E would rather eat hot coals than deliver what people wanted to see.

Fair enough. lol

[CCTC]

It does show a bit of consistency that the remorseless serial killer is someone who was tormented and almost murdered as a child and the targets that we are supposed to see as innocent victims were witches - not innocent witches - but the evil murderous kind. 

Have they addressed Gothel trying to get her coat hangers lately.   They have really gotten bad at completely ignoring plots that are not the main part of the episode and then when they do revisit it it has been two months and you have to remember what happened.

[Shanna Marie]

5 minutes ago, CCTC said:

Have they addressed Gothel trying to get her coat hangers lately.   They have really gotten bad at completely ignoring plots that are not the main part of the episode and then when they do revisit it it has been two months and you have to remember what happened.

And that was the big mid-season cliffhanger.

I'm still boggling over the idea that any publisher would let an author have a main character with his exact name without it being one of those literary works that's meant to be a fake autobiography. The Once Upon a Time story is definitely not literary enough to pull off that device. The first thing in the revision letter would be along the lines of "I think your character needs a different name. It might be offputting or distracting to readers for the character to have the same name as the author."

[KingOfHearts]

I haven't been able to catch the entire episode yet, but I did manage to watch the Tilly/Margot scene on YouTube. If they were given more time to date and come together, they'd probably be a decent couple. Their scenes tend to be the slower ones, and it's some of the best stuff of this season. Whenever the show takes a breath, the quality really goes up. We need more scenes of the characters just talking and enjoying each other's company. Not angsting or regurgitating important plot points. 

[Camera One]

This episode had a mix of alright, and laughably bad.

They finally focus on Adult Henry and his first 10 minutes made him seem like the whiniest, most insecure person ever.  He basically repeated the "I refuse to believe I'm just a character in someone else's story" line that Jared Henry said, and it sounded way worse coming from an adult. 

The flashback was weak in the sense that the reason Henry learned his "lesson" that he didn't need to impress Cinderella (direct quote,  his words: "I don't need a great story!  I just need a great life!") was SOLELY because he was about to die. Except he has almost died a hundred times since he was 10 years old and he never learned that lesson until he's in his mid-30s?  

While Blackbeard pretending to be defeated was pretty funny, it was also ridiculous and unlikely that he would agree to do that for Whook.

Why would they be saved from only the ring being thrown into the whirlpool?  Wouldn't Davy Jones want all the treasure back?  

 

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

So, Henry has a magic ring that can randomly stop a giant whirlpool? And this is all in the WishVerse? Or is this Murderellas verse? Or the original EF? Can you give us some hints, please?

That's what I don't understand.  Wish Smee and Wish Blackbeard would be in the Wish Realm, no?  So Whook had yet another magic bean to travel there with Henry?

The whole podcast thing was another huge joke.  "I listen to your podcast - everyone in here talks about it!" Uh, why?  We really have no idea what's on this awesome podcast except for the interview with Jacinda and Lucy.  That made it all the more ridiculous that Henry is hired by some New York company.  I loved Jacinda's response, "I guess you'll have to go for it.  Uh, yeah."

Why would everyone (Sabine, Lucy, etc.) assume that Henry didn't truly want the job offer and was just on standby waiting for Jacinda to call him to tell him not to go?  It's not like he's a runaway success or has a real job.  It's just a job interview and he could always make his decision after.  It's just so stupid taking cheap elements from a romantic comedy and transplanting it even though it doesn't work in this context.

Lucy is back on team Murderenry because Roni *might* figure out how to stop Henry from being poisoned?  These characters flip-flop like there's no tomorrow.

So the Control Freak at the Rollin' Bayou is hiring because now she just has no standards.  Does Tilly have a food safe certificate?  Oh yeah, only one person in the truck needs it.  I thought the beignet looked like a chicken nugget when it was in the fryer.

The best part of the episode was definitely Rogers walking Tilly to work and picking her up after.  They really sold the father/daughter relationship.  It was nice to see Rogers wearing modern clothing.  

Couldn't Weaver have figured out the clues himself in the storybook?  It was all pretty obvious.  I did laugh when Weaver said Henry was his favorite character in the book.  Give me a break.  And "Henry Mills in the book... he always knew the right path."  Riiiiight, Detective Revisionist history.

I did like the scenes with Zelena and Lucy, surprisingly.  I liked Robyn's scene with Alice, but I found her a total brat in the bar with her mother.  Still, she was miles better than Wannabe Robin Hood Flashback Murderobyn.  Keep your new personality.

They're really sticking to their guns, pushing a Henry/Jacinda engagement episode, 16 episodes after finding out they had zero chemistry.  

The unintentional laughs of this episode were numerous.  I did laugh heartily when Henry got locked in the car at the end.  The other funny scene was when Robin tore off the tiniest crumb on the beignet and then held it in her hand forever while she talked on and on.  We never saw her putting the beignet in her mouth and then suddenly she was chewing and saying it was REALLY good, but she never took another bite.  It was THAT good, eh?

Edited April 7, 2018 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

19 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Why would they be saved from only the ring being thrown into the whirlpool?  Wouldn't Davy Jones want all the treasure back?  

Davy's an old romantic. (I wondered the same thing)

21 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Lucy is back on team Murderenry because Roni *might* figure out how to stop Henry from being poisoned?  These characters flip-flop like there's no tomorrow.

The writers think they're giving us an epic story like The Parent Trap where kids are involved in matchmaking their parents. But it's seriously cringey with Lucy.

23 minutes ago, Camera One said:

It's just so stupid taking cheap elements from a romantic comedy and transplanting it even though it doesn't work in this context.

And this is not even the worst part. Next week we'll get the Classic Misunderstanding Trope(TM) where Jacinda assumes Henry doesn't love her because he left for NY and is not answering his calls, and Roni and Lucy freaking out about it. Ugh. Gimme a break! 

[Camera One]

22 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

Next week we'll get the Classic Misunderstanding Trope(TM) where Jacinda assumes Henry doesn't love her because he left for NY and is not answering his calls, and Roni and Lucy freaking out about it. Ugh. Gimme a break! 

Oh goody!  We haven't seen that storyline since Hook disappeared and Emma assumed he didn't love her anymore and went to the bar to get over him.

A&E, I was wondering where this flashback fits into the timeline.  Surely, they wouldn't be looking for dragons to fight and going on treasure hunting expeditions during The Resistance?  Yet Tiana's coronation as Queen wasn't until after Lucy was born.  Thank you.

Quote

“Some crazy stuff happens in Henry’s personal life, involving Jacinda and Lucy as well, that will have ramifications for the potential of this new job offer,” West previews. “Henry is going to have a big choice in front of him as far as which route he wants to take.”

I don't remember where this happened in the episode.  What crazy stuff involving Jacinda and Lucy?

Quote

 “This time I’m the one in need of some advice,” says Tiera Skovbye, referring to Margot’s reunion with her mother Kelly (aka Zelena). After some three years apart, “I’ve come back to try to rebuild our relationship, but I can tell she’s hiding some things from me — obviously! And that’s frustrating. I’m like, ‘You need to tell me whats going on!'”

Have they ever specified that three years has gone by?  So that means the Curse lasted 3 years?  

[thuganomics85]

I was about to call all kinds of bullshit over Henry getting the upper-hand in his fight against Blackbeard and, in general, how poorly made the entire thing was, but then it being revealed it was all a set-up by Hook to make Henry feel "heroic", almost made it all worth it!  I guess it kind of in character for Henry to still be like this, but man, he really hasn't grown up, has he?  It was fun seeing Blackbeard again (and Smee!), and I did like the character beats for Henry and "New Hook", but, of course, it all ends with them dragging back his romance with Cinderella, which is pretty much making my eyes glaze over.

Tonight in "It's hard out there for a parent!":  First, Hook finds a job for the daughter he doesn't know is actually his daughter, and worries that she'll fuck it all up, but while she might not be the next best cook, she ends up being a decent saleswoman.  Meanwhile, Zelena still can't tell her daughter about the whole "We're actually totally based off of fairy tale creatures.  Oh, and you're a product of rape, but lets forget about that part especially!", so that causes friction as well.  But it all works out, especially after Tilly and Margot meet, and the chemistry is still there, it seems.

"Nice" to see Lucy's back to being kind of creepy with her whole "You won't even know I'm here!", when she basically asks to sit by while her Mom calls her on and off boyfriend (kind of?)  Take it down a few notches, Lucy.

Henry and Weaver team up and finally find start figuring out the motives over who the killer his.  But, of course, Henry hilariously blabs the entire thing to Nick, who is totally Hansel, so now Nick's got him all tied up and he is preparing for his next victim: Zelena.

This was probably one of the best episodes this season despite mainly being filler, but that might be because I've somehow gotten charmed by the relationship between Hook and Tilly, and Tilly in general.  It's too bad they've waited this long to really go somewhere with this aspect of the season.

[Writing Wrongs]

So people can leave HH without problems unlike Storybrooke?

So Nick is "awake" then? How do you wake people up? I'm so confused.

I laughed when Hook said "Prince Henry of Storybrooke".

Edited April 7, 2018 by Writing Wrongs

[mythoughtis]

I thought Henry answered the phone and then set it aside so Jacinda could hear him with Nick and call for help.   However, that would be an intelligent move and Henry was semi-coherent, so possibly not.  

3 years would make Lucy at least 11, right? She was 8 in whatever realm they were in before the curse?  Which realm was that again? EF or Wish? 

[rogvortex58]

I never thought it was possible, but the Jolly Roger was full of idiots in this episode. The storm only came because of the treasure they took from the sea, for some fake adventure Nook wanted to give to Henry. Which means the only danger they were in was the one they created themselves. And all because Henry wanted to be part of some story to live up to his family’s legacy?

what was it Mufasa said? “being brave doesn’t mean you go looking for trouble”? That’s the big difference between Henry and his family. They got into adventures and did good because they chose to do what was right. Not to prove something to themselves.

seriously, Nook. nice try. But Killian would have done it a lot better. And Henry, stop trying to be Charming or the savior. Just be yourself.

Edited April 7, 2018 by rogvortex58

[Rumsy4]

7 hours ago, Camera One said:

I don't remember where this happened in the episode.  What crazy stuff involving Jacinda and Lucy?

The fact that they're still in the show? 

52 minutes ago, rogvortex58 said:

seriously, Nook. nice try. But Killian would have done it a lot better. 

But that was the point, to me. Post-Poison Heart Curse, poor WHook keeps messing things up by bumbling around. He wants to live up to the ideal Henry has built around the other Hook. He actually sees into the heart of the matter--that Henry has a bit of a hero complex, and tries to help out in a misguided attempt to bolster his confidence. It backfired, but in the end, Henry's faith in him helped out his self-confidence as well (Smee's touched and happy expression in the background made the scene for me. haha). 

[rogvortex58]

I get that he’s not perfect. And despite his short comings he’s been a trusted ally and part of the inner circle, as established in previous flashbacks. But after this stunt, I was just embarrassed for him.

That said, I also understand that timeline wise, it’s still early days for him and Henry. So it makes sense that this was a growing process for the two of them.

Edited April 7, 2018 by rogvortex58

[Mabinogia]

6 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

but that might be because I've somehow gotten charmed by the relationship between Hook and Tilly, and Tilly in general.  It's too bad they've waited this long to really go somewhere with this aspect of the season.

I probably would have actually watched this season if it had been about Whook and Tilly primarily. She is easily the best new character, he is easily the best returning character, their story is interesting, the actors work well together, and I actually care what happens to them and am not actively rooting for their deaths like I am most of the others. 

As it is, I watched as much of the Whook/Tilly/Robyn scenes as I could while avoiding Henry scene's like the plague, though I did catch the reveal that the swashbuckling adventure was one great big cosplay for Henry to feel like a hero. That may be the single best thing this show has ever done. It was epically hilarious. IDK about the rest of you, but for now I'm on Nick/Jack/Hansel's side in the whole "let's kills the evil witches who murder people" thing. He's like the Dexter of Fairy Tales. Team Hansel!!!!

[Shanna Marie]

13 hours ago, Camera One said:

The whole podcast thing was another huge joke.  "I listen to your podcast - everyone in here talks about it!" Uh, why?  We really have no idea what's on this awesome podcast except for the interview with Jacinda and Lucy.  That made it all the more ridiculous that Henry is hired by some New York company.

Why would anyone outside Hyperion Heights even listen to a podcast about one neighborhood in Seattle? It's not something narrative, like "Welcome to Night Vale." It doesn't even sound like it's so amusingly written that it's worth listening to even if you're not from that neighborhood, like the Facebook posts from the Bangor, Maine, police department (if you haven't read those, look them up because they're laugh-out-loud funny and someone seriously needs to turn them into a TV comedy about cops in Maine). It's just neighborhood gossip and real estate scandal.

13 hours ago, Camera One said:

They finally focus on Adult Henry and his first 10 minutes made him seem like the whiniest, most insecure person ever.  He basically repeated the "I refuse to believe I'm just a character in someone else's story" line that Jared Henry said, and it sounded way worse coming from an adult. 

That's where this whole "book" thing is so weird -- who gets written about and why, and why does it even matter? It seems like most of these fairy tale characters don't ever know they're characters in a book, so how does Henry know there's not a book out there somewhere that he's in but doesn't know about? And didn't he write the story of what went on in the first six seasons? Wasn't he in that book? Is the problem that he wasn't the main character? Except he was kind of the main character in season one, and it sounds like he's the main character in the book adult Henry writes (which seems to actually be the book teen Henry wrote as the Author). Is the problem that he peaked at 10 and hasn't really been the hero since then? It still comes down to the fact that you become a hero in one of those books by living your life and doing the right thing when the time comes. The guy who goes wandering around looking for the chance to be a hero is seldom actually a hero.

13 hours ago, Camera One said:

They're really sticking to their guns, pushing a Henry/Jacinda engagement episode, 16 episodes after finding out they had zero chemistry.  

I guess they're stuck with it, since they already have a kid. It's not like they could go back and not have Henry and Ella get together. Their only chance was for it to turn out that Ella already had Lucy with Jack before Henry met her, but they didn't take that opportunity. So since they're stuck with it, they had to fill in one of the gaps of them getting together. Not that Henry rushing off during the Resistance to go have a random, selfish adventure so that he could be a hero worthy of an attempted murderer is all that romantic. Was there no mission relevant to the Resistance he could have gone on to prove himself? No spying or recon that needed to be done? No raid on an enemy outpost?

[Camera One]

9 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

I guess they're stuck with it, since they already have a kid. It's not like they could go back and not have Henry and Ella get together. Their only chance was for it to turn out that Ella already had Lucy with Jack before Henry met her, but they didn't take that opportunity. So since they're stuck with it, they had to fill in one of the gaps of them getting together. Not that Henry rushing off during the Resistance to go have a random, selfish adventure so that he could be a hero worthy of an attempted murderer is all that romantic. Was there no mission relevant to the Resistance he could have gone on to prove himself? No spying or recon that needed to be done? No raid on an enemy outpost?

Stuff like that is why a carefully constructed coherent timeline matters and why I wondered if this was during the Resistance.  It makes a huge impact on characterization, and the difference between Henry being an extremely selfish bratty man-child, or a just an insecure loser man-child.

[snarkastic]

I don't know if anyone commented in a previous episode thread, but WHY do none of the ladies making food in the truck wear a hairnet or at least have it tied back? Is this why Sabine couldn't get a food safety certificate

[Camera One]

And LOL at Tilly's creative idea of giving free samples.  When Sabine herself gave free samples at the Food Truck festival.  

I did love the subplot, but still, the writing is really quite laughable.

[Terrafamilia]

How is Nick "awake"? Hmmm, maybe the Nick persona didn't stick because he was never really "Jack" in the first place? So, Magic! Makes about as much sense as anything here makes sense anymore.

[Rumsy4]

Someone on tumblr posted screenshots of Nick's copy of Henry's book (X, X). There were handwritten notes and annotations in the margin saying "it didn't happen like that" or "does no one remember but me?" and stuff like that. These are fairy tales we've not seen played out in the show. Does this mean Henry actually did compile some of these stories in his travels? But didn't they say that Henry's book ended with him meeting Cinderella? Why are all these extra fairy tales there? Why am I bothering? 

[Shanna Marie]

3 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

These are fairy tales we've not seen played out in the show. Does this mean Henry actually did compile some of these stories in his travels? But didn't they say that Henry's book ended with him meeting Cinderella? Why are all these extra fairy tales there? Why am I bothering? 

I suspect the props people just used some book of fairytales instead of bothering to write the book Henry supposedly wrote. We're only supposed to see the notes, not pay attention to the text. They forget about the magic of high definition and screen captures, so it's not just a prop book, but something we can read. In the show, supposedly the Hansel and Gretel story was the one he really corrected.

I would love to see what this show would have done with "The Mouse, the Bird, and the Sausage" because that is one wacky story that doesn't work if you make the characters into humans.

[Camera One]

35 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

Someone on tumblr posted screenshots of Nick's copy of Henry's book (X, X). There were handwritten notes and annotations in the margin saying "it didn't happen like that" or "does no one remember but me?" and stuff like that. These are fairy tales we've not seen played out in the show. Does this mean Henry actually did compile some of these stories in his travels? But didn't they say that Henry's book ended with him meeting Cinderella? Why are all these extra fairy tales there? Why am I bothering? 

Exactly.  Wouldn't most of the book include the story of the OTHER Hansel and Gretel in Storybrooke?  Henry wouldn't have been young enough to document what happened to Hansel as a child.  I can buy Adult Hansel in the book in the adventure with giants since that was before Henry met Cinderella, but Henry never met Gretel so why would he write her story?  

[Shanna Marie]

14 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Wouldn't most of the book include the story of the OTHER Hansel and Gretel in Storybrooke?  Henry wouldn't have been young enough to document what happened to Hansel as a child. 

My impression from the dialogue was that the book was about the Storybrooke Hansel and Gretel, and thus the "not true" and "it didn't happen like that" from this Hansel, who must not know about the multiverse and that this was about a different Hansel and Gretel, so he was correcting the text.

[Camera One]

2 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

My impression from the dialogue was that the book was about the Storybrooke Hansel and Gretel, and thus the "not true" and "it didn't happen like that" from this Hansel, who must not know about the multiverse and that this was about a different Hansel and Gretel, so he was correcting the text.

Okay, that would make a lot of sense.  Though I don't understand the format of the book... wouldn't Henry be telling about Storybrooke Hansel and Gretel?  Or did he tell ALL the flashback stories as well?  Because the book would actually explain that Henry went to another universe and met another Cinderella.

Edited April 7, 2018 by Camera One

[Shanna Marie]

7 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Though I don't understand the format of the book... wouldn't Henry be telling about Storybrooke Hansel and Gretel?  Or did he tell ALL the flashback stories as well?  Because the book would actually explain that Henry went to another universe and met another Cinderella.

My impression is that the book is basically the show, with flashbacks woven in among the "present" stories (Henry probably got the flashbacks from the storybook, since in season one he knew most of the backstories). Janselnick may or may not have clued in on the Cinderella bit at the end, assuming he made it that far into the book. But we are dealing with a psycho serial killer here, so we can't expect too much reason from him. If he saw a story that seemed to be about himself and his sister and about other people he knew but was different from what he'd experienced, he probably didn't stop to consider that it was another realm's version of these people.

If the book is basically the first six seasons, it has to be an utterly disjointed mess as a novel, with the villain from the first few chapters abruptly becoming a hero for the rest of the book, Rumple going back and forth between being villain and ally, characters appearing for a few chapters and then disappearing, plot lines that only last for a few chapters. Really, the only story arc that runs in any moderately coherent fashion from beginning to end (but with a lot of stops, starts, and reversals) would be Emma's personal story, going from being alone on a fake date to ending up with a big family and getting married after finding love, but then an epilogue of adult Henry meeting Cinderella doesn't fit that. It sounds like Henry is the main character, but he doesn't really have any kind of story arc after season one. Most of the time, he's just present. He doesn't have any kind of character growth (in fact, he may have been more mature at 10 than he is in his 30s). There's nothing really about him that would make him a thread pulling together all the various story arcs.

[Camera One]

I seriously doubt A&E thought through how Henry's book would actually go.  Why would the Curse repopulate that book so that it would be published and so many people would read it?  Drizella and Gothel didn't even throw in a Savior clause into the Curse, did they?

I forgot how much I loved A&E's self-insert dialogue when Henry proclaimed at the police station, "Stop putting it all on me!  I don't have the answers!"

[legaleagle53]

2 hours ago, Terrafamilia said:

How is Nick "awake"? Hmmm, maybe the Nick persona didn't stick because he was never really "Jack" in the first place? So, Magic! Makes about as much sense as anything here makes sense anymore.

Who says Nick's awake?  He heard about Hansel's story, identified with it, adopted it as his own, and ran with it without knowing that it really IS his story.  He's just that cray-cray.

Edited April 7, 2018 by legaleagle53

[Rumsy4]

8 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Why would the Curse repopulate that book so that it would be published and so many people would read it?

Maybe we'll get a backstory musical episode that explains the appearance of book and why nobody remembers singing.

Edited April 7, 2018 by Rumsy4

[mythoughtis]

Nick knows he’s Hansel. . Henry called him that and he answered with ‘No one has called me that in a very long time’.  

[tennisgurl]

I can already tell where this story goes next. We find out Hansel's backstory, and find out about how his life was ruined and his family slaughtered by the coat hangers (and Zelena, because its a small multiverse after all) being all evil and whatnot, while in the HH, Hansel/Jack/Nick cackles evilly about how much he loves killing, and how the witches murdered his family and tortured him when he was a kid. Henry think hes crazy, but Ronnie and Zelena and company end up stopping him. He gets killed off when he tries to kill Zelena or some other witch, and no one gives him a second glance. Zelena feels bad for half a second, and then Reginia tells her that its all in the past and it doesn't matter, and Hansel was the real monster and everyone has a drink, without thinking for another second about the guy whos life was destroyed. I feel like I've seen this before on this show...

Because, as we all know, if someone does something horrible to you and your family, and you try to get justice against the person who did it, your an evil monster who must die for your crimes against humanity. But if someone accidentally tripped you once and didnt apologize fast enough, you have the right to go on a murderous bloody rampage, as long as eventually you stop and bake some Italian food for some of your victims. The ones still alive anyway. Thats just how it works, right? 

[Shanna Marie]

36 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:

Nick knows he’s Hansel. . Henry called him that and he answered with ‘No one has called me that in a very long time’.  

I wonder if he also knows he's Jack -- like, does he remember his distant past and his cursed self, but not his years as Jack, being Henry's friend? Or does he remember it all and the kidnapping and (we can hope) torture of Henry is payback for making him listen to hours of talk about movies he had no interest in because he lacked the cultural reference for any of it to be at all meaningful?

[Camera One]

8 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

I wonder if he also knows he's Jack -- like, does he remember his distant past and his cursed self, but not his years as Jack, being Henry's friend? Or does he remember it all and the kidnapping and (we can hope) torture of Henry is payback for making him listen to hours of talk about movies he had no interest in because he lacked the cultural reference for any of it to be at all meaningful?

I don't know why he doesn't just kill Henry.  Is it because he has genuine feelings for him?

[mythoughtis]

Can someone explain the coat hangers reference? I missed that dialogue. 

[Camera One]

3 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:

Can someone explain the coat hangers reference? I missed that dialogue. 

Coat hangers = Mother Gothel's Coven of Eight

In the winter finale, Mother Gothel brought Anastasia into a room with a bunch of coat hangers with the hooded capes that her Coven wears.  So we were just joking that the cliffhanger was a bunch of dreaded coat hangers.

Edited April 7, 2018 by Camera One

[mythoughtis]

2 minutes ago, Camera One said:

In the winter finale, Mother Gothel brought Anastasia into a room with a bunch of coat hangers with the hooded capes that her Coven wears.  So we were just joking that the cliffhanger was a bunch of coat hangers. 

I guess we could call the Cult members coat hangers .., since they seem to be riding Gothels coattails. 

[KingOfHearts]

About to finally watch this episode. @Camera One, I need you to start a prayer circle for me.

[Rumsy4]

Why are Nick's arms scarred, but his hands fine? Was he wearing flame-resistant gloves that only covered his hands when he presumably shoved the Witch into the oven?