Hopes and Fears: How Will We Survive This Island? (Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers)

[jay741982]

I fear that the EPs will break up Oliver and Felicity next season, and that the reason will have something to do with her father.  After everything that's happened this past season (and the previous two seasons' build-up), it will be difficult for them to come up with a believable, organic reason to break them up, but who knows with these EPs?  When Oliver thought he was dying in 3x09, his last thought was of Felicity.  By 3x20, he had already planned his suicide mission to take down Ra's with the bioweapon in the plane.  So when he had sex with Felicity, it was the last sex he expected to have in his life.  Knowing his suicidal plan also explains why he didn't get mad at her for drugging him - he understood her desperation and also didn't want their 'final' parting to be in anger.  Knowing his suicidal plan also gives added poignancy to his good-bye scene when he says to her, "Let's not say good-bye this time."  In 3x23, both Oliver and Felicity left everything and everyone behind to go off together, both to help him discover who he is now and finally to spend some quality time together as a couple.  Against all of that, for them to break up over a misunderstanding or argument or conflicted loyalties would require a major plot contrivance.  However, these EPs are the masters of major plot contrivances.

 

Despite the EPs' promise of a lighter season, I wonder if next season will be Felicity's turn to go dark.  For example, if her father is a major HIVE villain with super smarts, perhaps he attempts to corrupt her with the lure of high-tech equipment and advanced knowledge, while fooling her with a pretense of being a good guy trapped in a bad situation.

I have always thought that will be how Her Dad causes Angst for Olicity. He will seem like he's in over his head with H.I.V.E telling Felicity they made him abandon Her and Donna, he wants out so on and so forth. Felicity wanting a relationship with her pops starts to belive him but something about him don't sit well with Oliver, Cue disagreement/Big fight. Then it's revealed to the audience Her Dad is bad news like he's Damiens right hand man. Eventually Felicity finds out her dad is bad news. Then Oliver winds up fighting her dad

[kismet]

I want Felicity's father to be a major comic book character but I don't want him to be DD because Darhk is just too evil.  I can take gray, Moira was gray and I get her motivations, but DD seems to be pure evil, worse than Slade or Ra's, and I don't want that for Felicity.

 

 

But how could Slade come up with that much money so fast? Would you be okay with Slade seeking out DD and asking him to finance an Oliver take-down?

Yes I would be okay with that. I want Slade to have masterminded some type of revenge mission on his own. I want him to have his own agency in that regard. I don't mind if he saught out financial backing from another person like DD. I just don't want everything to have been DD or DD's idea.

Edited May 19, 2015 by kismet

[kismet]

I want her father to be an important part of the story, but not DD. He's just too evil and like others have said, I really can't see him having settled with Donna & Felicity for a few years of domestication before running off again. The writing indicates that he was a part of her childhood for a few years and that just doesn't seem to jive with DD. But a known associate of his or someone high in his ranks it would be beliveable.

 

I think her father will be someone very important to the comics or someone well known from DR's spills. So it will be interesting to see. I wonder if they will have it be somebody good and not evil.

 

Call me cautiously optimistic, but I hope they do not have any angst in the O/F relationship this season. Evil father or no. I just want them to be happy, not necessarily every episode ~ but after this season I want them to be together, no break-ups - minimal angst/tension. I also don't want their relationship to  I could see them setting them up to have some friction in s5. I wonder if her father arc will be someone that can continue into s5. They have a lot to do in s4a with LoT, DD, Dig & HIVE ~ I can see them holding onto a lot of FS's father drama and keeping it for end of s4 & have O/F end on a tense/bad note in s4 finale to counterbalance the happy s3 end.

[KirkB]

Do we know for sure HIVE is going to be part of this season? Didn't they say they were going to do it last year and that Diggle was going to be involved in the story and then changed their minds? How do we know that won't happen again?

 

I'd rather Felicity's father not be anyone terribly important and not connected to Dark or HIVE or whatever the big villain story is in 4. It's one thing for Oliver, who has traveled around the world and made connections with all kinds of criminal scum to be associated with the Russians and the Yakuza and Argus and Slade, and to a lesser extent Diggle with his military and family history, but for Felicity to randomly be connected to the villain who just happens to come to Starling is a pretty big coincidence to swallow...unless he's there specifically because of her. Besides, the way Felicity and her mom were talking I didn't get the sense her dad is any one that important. A criminal, yes, but maybe in the hacking or embezzling sense.

[wonderwall]

I think it's because felicity nor donna don't know just how bad her father is. I mean this is a comic book show so it's easy for me to suspend my disbelief. I think it would be pretty awesome to see if the villain comes into town for Felicity. But I can also see him come into town for intelligence on the arrow or what not.

With the way David talks about this character I presume this guy is a big comic book character. He definitely can't be normal nor a normal villain

Edited May 19, 2015 by wonderwall

[tarotx]

I was thinking what I want for Felicity's father. I think it would be cool if he turns out to be a Masked hero. Maybe little Fecility saw him do his thing and though she doesn't remember she kind of does.

Maybe he's from the future and HIVE has wanted to extort That knowledge. But preferably he's like Howard Stark with a need to create interesting gadgets that can be used for evil. I'm not a huge DC reader so I'll have to do some research to find someone on their roster.

Time Travel is a part of The Flarrow universe so Rip Hunter would be a good choice if Felicity's father was going to be connected to LOT.

Whoever he is I don't want him evil evil nor do I want him to cause Olicity true Angst. I'm all for openingly discussing worry and opposite points of view. But no secrets or Melodrama. I'm so over that for Oliver. Find a way to use Stephen and Emily's natural chemistry to move the relationship organically where melodrama isn't necessary.

Edited May 22, 2015 by tarotx

[Chaser]

I would prefer her father is some amoral free-lance hacker who was employed by HIVE to do some work, maybe design their sytems. When Team Arrow starts in on HIVE, Felicity proves to be very effective at getting into that sytem so they call in her father. Its sets up a head to head between father and daughter, along the way maybe one of the recognizing something computery that tips the other off on their connection. He ends up turning and helping the Team.

 

I don't want her father to be some type of supervillain. Just a flaky Dad who got tired of the 9 to 5 and family life. He still loves his family but couldn't handle the responsiblity. Or he is employed by HIVE and felt the need to leave after his involvement with him.

[statsgirl]

I want them to have fun with deciding who Felicity's father is. They hit got with the Easter Egg that was a one shot character called Felicity Smoak, so I want them to be really comic book creative with who her father is.  But I don't want him to be tied into Oliver's story except tangentially as a minion of Damian Darhk, I was this to be about Felicity and maybe teaming up with Diggle.

 

Despite the EPs' promise of a lighter season, I wonder if next season will be Felicity's turn to go dark.  For example, if her father is a major HIVE villain with super smarts, perhaps he attempts to corrupt her with the lure of high-tech equipment and advanced knowledge, while fooling her with a pretense of being a good guy trapped in a bad situation.

Can't they have just one season of happiness?  It feels like it's been such a miserable season 3 that I want at least Felicity and Oliver to be mostly on the same side next season.  I like the idea of Felicity thinking he's a good guy and she can save him, because that's the kind of person she is, only to find out too late that he's evil.  While Oliver is all suspicious because that's he kind of guy he's become.  I'd rather that as a source of friction than Oliver's kid.

 

I think I can take Felicity going dark, but in season 5. It's too soon after her Season Of Angst And Crying for me.

[Guest]

I want Felicity's father to be involved in H.I.V.E because I love the thought of Diggle and Felicity's stories interlocking somehow and they never knew it. But I really don't want her dad to be DD. I guess I like the idea of him being relatively normal but chose to do bad things with his genius intellect rather than good. I like the parallel of him being like Felicity but she chose to do good things with her abilities, and seeing how that kind of clashes with her dad. 

 

I just hope that there's balance amid all this stuff. I need some happiness. S3 was way too dark and depressing and if Felicity is going to have some issues with her father (and likely Oliver considering they're bringing in his kid) then I'll need some balance. I hope Oliver and Felicity are rock solid and happy and work through things together. 

Edited May 19, 2015 by Guest

[Starfish35]

I know everyone's expecting Bratva in the flashbacks next season, but does anyone think it might be something else, and Bratva saved for season five? The question about Coast City in the finale thread just made me think. Do you all think that was just another Easter Egg, or was it a hint?

[catahoulamama]

I know everyone's expecting Bratva in the flashbacks next season, but does anyone think it might be something else, and Bratva saved for season five? The question about Coast City in the finale thread just made me think. Do you all think that was just another Easter Egg, or was it a hint?

I just assumed it was an Easter Egg.  They seem to do that with names of streets, addresses, or they slap it on the side of a cargo container, etc.  The ship shown in the finale was merely registered in Coast City, so theoretically, it could be headed anywhere.  (After this season, my fingers are crossed for Bratva/Russia!)

[apinknightmare]

I'm curious about the flashbacks for next season too. Because in the BTS pictures posted of that boat, wasn't it Russian? I could've sworn it had Russian writing on the hull, but Coast City was written across it in the finale, so...did they decide to change course or what? 

[calliope1975]

I'm curious about the flashbacks for next season too. Because in the BTS pictures posted of that boat, wasn't it Russian? I could've sworn it had Russian writing on the hull, but Coast City was written across it in the finale, so...did they decide to change course or what? 

 

I was thinking that, too, when I saw that scene. I'm pretty sure there was Cyrillic writing on the bts ship.

[Guest]

Maybe Oliver goes to Coast City first and then ends up in Russia in like episode 2 or 3. Because I think at this point everyone is expecting Bratva flashbacks and I guess this throws people off the scent, so to speak!

[Carrie Ann]

I suppose it wouldn't be odd for a ship docked in Vancouver to be Russian, so maybe they always intended to change that in post-production. But...yeah, I really need this to be the Bratva season.

[kismet]

SA mentioned we would hear Coast City again in s4 during the upfronts. I hope it is where LoT's homebase is and not the FB. I just want Bratva FB this season.

 

However, part of me feels like this season is going to be split in terms of theme & plot. I wonder if perhaps he will be in CC for the beginning FB while we have LoT setting up & then wind up in Russia mid season. Then the Bratva FB can continue from s4b to s5a. Then s5b FB will be Russia  that then blends into island in s6 OQ back on Island in his own purgatory.

[FurryFury]

I'm curious about the flashbacks for next season too. Because in the BTS pictures posted of that boat, wasn't it Russian? I could've sworn it had Russian writing on the hull, but Coast City was written across it in the finale, so...did they decide to change course or what? 

Could you give a link to that BTS picture?

Edited May 20, 2015 by FurryFury

[Velocity23]

[nksarmi]

Ok so there is an article today that confirms that in season two, things will be different on Flash.  They have also confirmed multiple Earths on Flash.  That has to impact Arrow in some manor right?  Do you think they will use the events of Flash to undo anything - good or bad - on Arrow?

[Chaser]

Ok so there is an article today that confirms that in season two, things will be different on Flash.  They have also confirmed multiple Earths on Flash.  That has to impact Arrow in some manor right?  Do you think they will use the events of Flash to undo anything - good or bad - on Arrow?

They say that Flash and Arrow (and apparently LOT) exist in the same universe, so unless CC leaves under a Dome I would assume its going to impact Arrow.

 

I'm not sure what they would undo on Arrow, but I could see some AU verses of the characters popping up.

[apinknightmare]

I think they're going to have to keep the multiverses over on the flash. I just cannot see them exploring multiple timelines on Arrow, where time travel hasn't even been introduced.

[statsgirl]

AS I was watching The Flash and they were talking about Barry going back in time and resetting the timeline, I thought "If they change it so that Barry doesn't show up in Nanda Parbat to let them out of the dungeon (because the reason Barry met Oliver in the first place was because he was looking into his mother's murder), there are going to be a lot of pissed off Arrow fans.

 

I don't mind if the characters exist in the same universe, but I want Arrow to be more grounded than Flash or LoT.

[nksarmi]

But.... I'm still not entirely sure how Barry is in fact still the Flash at the end of Flash without Wells/RF speeding up when Barry became the Flash as he claims.  If Barry isn't the Flash in season three of the Arrow, then he can't let the team out of the dungeon in NP and well holy crap what then?

 

So I am going to have to handwave that RF was lying and that Barry actually became Flash right on schedule and that he was always going to meet Oliver in season two and metahumans were always going to exists and the changes in Flarrowverse will be minor and probably only impact Flash, but damn it - if they are going to mess around like this, they really needs to just combine the writers rooms for all three shows and have them write everything simultaneously with each other. Otherwise, they seriously need a continuity floater to make sure things don't get really f-ed up next season.

[DrSpaceman10]

I'm not sure how grounded Arrow is going to stay next season. Mirakuru and bringing a not completely dead Thea back to life sort of skirted the grounded line, but crossovers with LoT (which seems to heavily involve time travel) and bringing a character who has been dead for a year back to life almost completely throw out Arrow being grounded. 

[Password]

I reckon Arrow hasn't been groundrd since Mirakuru. Sure the effects were like steroids gone horribly wrong, but the precedent was there.

Reading these comments sort of makes me worried about how the time travel will effect Arrow. Too many ifs and buts brought up in The Flash finale. Hopefully it won't grotesquely ruin everything.

[AyChihuahua]

These writers are simply not smart enough for time travel storylines, ESPECIALLY time travel storylines over three shows.  It's going to be a disaster for viewers who actually think about plot/story, etc.  After last night's Flash it really is already a disaster for viewers who think things through.

 

 

That said, I don't think time issues are going to be a huge Arrow thing.  It's definitely not grounded anymore, but it feels like (especially with the cartoon of the woman who magically changes into various animals) they're going with more magic than time travel on Arrow.  The LP could have been handwaved as mirakuru (which was science-based) on steroids with Thea, but not if it brings back long-dead Sara.  So I think Arrow will be more magic-y next season and Oliver will cross over to the time-related shows rather than time issues crossing over to Arrow.

[Sakura12]

I think it depends on when Sara was brought back. If Rip Hunter was the one to do it, then he could've gotten to her right after they buried her and brought her back, then hid her away while she recovered more of her sanity. If it's Malcolm, Nyssa or Oliver that do it to long dead Sara then that does bring it more int the magic part. Although we don't know exactly how this LP works and even in the comics, Ra's put the skeletons of Bruce's parents in the pits, they came back as zombies but it still brought them back to life. So Sara having been dead a year with her all of her organs left intact comes back and like Caity has been saying, Sara's going to be different. We only saw a glimpse of her in the trailer. It could be her sanity comes and goes. 

[DrSpaceman10]

I don't think they'll have Oliver bring her back because how would they explain bringing Sara back but not Moira, Tommy, Shado, etc..? I'd prefer if they just brought her back on LoT and tried to keep Arrow more grounded, but I don't think that's what will happen. 

[kismet]

I wouldn't put it past MM to have resurrected Sara right after he killed her, kept her pseudo-prisoner as one of his contingency plans should the OQ take down Ras plan fail. It was likely his way to appease Nyssa & keep her on his side, esp if she became the new Ras. I wonder now that he has completed his deal with OQ, if he will release SL as a good sign gesture. MM just doesn't seem like the type of guy/villain that would put all of his trust into OQ & his plans.

[tennisgurl]

I don't really need the show to be super grounded. It has always been a super hero type of show, just one that had no powers. I just need it to make sense within the shows own rules. I don't mind the Arrow crew being aware that there are people with powers, or magic, or time travel, as long as it never takes over the show. Thats what the spin-offs are for. I don't need Arrow to be like our world, it just needs to make sense in its own world, even if its a world thats becoming more of a comic book world. Have time travel? Fine, just don't let it mess too much with the plot, and keep it consistent. Its all I ask.  

[catahoulamama]

I think they're going to have to keep the multiverses over on the flash. I just cannot see them exploring multiple timelines on Arrow, where time travel hasn't even been introduced.

 

I don't know how they can get around it *not* affecting Arrow, if the shows live in the same universe and share storylines and characters, and will even more so next year with the addition of LoT.  It's kinda tough to be all, "CC is just a train ride away from SC, but let's all just whistle past the huge sucking time travely, history affecting, black hole vortex thingy we've got going on here in CC" LOL

[apinknightmare]

I don't know how they can get around it *not* affecting Arrow, if the shows live in the same universe and share storylines and characters, and will even more so next year with the addition of LoT. It's kinda tough to be all, "CC is just a train ride away from SC, but let's all just whistle past the huge sucking time travely, history affecting, black hole vortex thingy we've got going on here in CC" LOL

The Flash is exploring multiverses next season, so with that and the time travel on LoT, I always figured that Arrow would continue to be based in the timeline it currently is and all the time traveling weirdness would happen in the multiverses outside of it. Not sure how that would work with crossovers - it'd be easier to do it with the Flash people going over to Starling rather than the reverse. If they do that, they'd be going back to the same timeline that Barry just screwed up.

I just don't think that time on Arrow is going to reset everytime Barry messes with it, nor do I think they're going to match whatever Central City timeline they're currently exploring with Arrow. I think the Arrow story has to somehow stay linear, with only minor interruptions from the time traveling.

[The Crazed Spruce]

The Flash is exploring multiverses next season, so with that and the time travel on LoT, I always figured that Arrow would continue to be based in the timeline it currently is and all the time traveling weirdness would happen in the multiverses outside of it. Not sure how that would work with crossovers - it'd be easier to do it with the Flash people going over to Starling rather than the reverse. If they do that, they'd be going back to the same timeline that Barry just screwed up.

I just don't think that time on Arrow is going to reset everytime Barry messes with it, nor do I think they're going to match whatever Central City timeline they're currently exploring with Arrow. I think the Arrow story has to somehow stay linear, with only minor interruptions from the time traveling.

That's my take, too. The Flash is gonna spend a few episodes running through various parallel realities while Arrow will take place in the main continuity (Earth 1, if you will).

[statsgirl]

I would be very disappointed if Barry reset Arrow even once.  It would feel like nothing mattered any more.

I don't think they'll have Oliver bring her back because how would they explain bringing Sara back but not Moira, Tommy, Shado, etc..? I'd prefer if they just brought her back on LoT and tried to keep Arrow more grounded, but I don't think that's what will happen. 

She's the one most recently dead?  Moira's been dead for a year, Tommy for two and Shado for six.  What else would Malcolm need to do to keep his end of the bargain?  Just staying out of Starling City would be boring.

 

It's too bad Malcolm never really cared about Tommy after he got back from Nanda Parbat otherwise he might try to raise him too.

[Sakura12]

Sara didn't go through the proper burial procedures, they just buried her in her old grave. That will probably help with her resurrection. I'm assuming Moira and Tommy since they had funerals and were properly buried did go though the procedures. Shado's been dead for 6 years.

[tv echo]

Using the multiverses trope on Arrow could be a way for the EPs to (try to) please all shipper fans, although it would be a cheat - like in the Archie comics where Archie is married to Veronica in one reality and married to Betty in another reality.

 

I was reading Jenny Raftery's twitter and someone suggested Richard Armitage to play someone who's part of Bratva.  I'd be so on board for that.

Edited May 22, 2015 by tv echo

[kismet]

My initial reaction about the multiverses universes as a way to please all groups of fans may not work and may cause more harm to the show than good. I do not have a lot of experience with shows that have multiverse universes, so I may not fully understand how they work. About the closest thing I can think of at the moment is the FlashSideways in Lost, which many people/fans of the show that I know absolutely hated and felt ruined the last season of the show. Whereas the FlashFWDs & FlashBacks felt like they teased & challenged your mind. The FlashSideway just felt like a plot device to push the storyline.

 

I feel like multiverse have the potential to ruin Arrow as well if used for more than just a few episodes. Personally, I do not know how I feel about them as long running arcs because it does feel sorta like a cheat. It also feels almost too comic or sci-fi that it might lose the general audience. In theory, it could work on Flash or LoT because it has main heroes that can jump through time. So its easy to understand/explain how those show got there. There are no characters with that potential on Arrow, so it would likely be someone coming in and resetting the timeline, which after awhile becomes bothersome, esp for a general viewer to accept that someone can come onto your show and just reset it at any point. I can imagine my friends (who are general audience members) that are not highly invested in the show/characters eventually just not turning back in, because you never know what story/character/world is going to be real & present, so what is the point?

 

Some people just like to know what type of show they are going to be tuning into. You might not like a certain story arc, but you certainly want it resolved not just part of some alternative timeline that may or may not get taken away or be important. I will admit that when Flash did their alternative time line episode a few weeks back after Barry tells Iris & kisses her, the show sorta knocked me a little. I would consider myself as an invested but still general fan of the Flash but after that episode, I cared less about tuning in the next week or keeping up with the show every week because there was less return on my investment. If I missed an episode when they did something or if something was spoiled, I did not care as much because I knew that it might be changed at any moment, so what's the point in keeping up to date? I went from having to watch it faithfully in chronological order to keep ahead of the story to catching it when I can. I will still get back to those episodes I missed, but there is not that rush I felt before I knew the timeline could be changed at the will of the writers whenever they wanted. I had every intention of watching the finale, but missed it because I was stuck at work for an extra 90min. I've yet to tune in because the show has lost that must see live quality that it had before it started to create alternative timelines. Sidenote ~ The worst part sometimes about the shared Flarrow universe is there are no way to prevent social media from ruining one shows developments. Many ARROW fans post on Flash, that you find out stuff even if you try to avoid it. I'm also not eager to watch the finale as I heard that one of my fav characters might not survive (and even though, I saw that coming weeks ago - I'm still not looking forward to watching it).

 

On a show like Arrow, I think AUs that are 1-3 episode arcs either because of dreams/drugs/medical conditions/etc are easier to understand and accept because it sets it up and finishes it in the same compact episode arc. There may be fallout or consequences because of the supposed AU, but the actual reality of the timeline was never really truly altered. I appreciate if the writers try to mess with some timelines or arcs through relatable or pseudo-realistic methods~ it can be entertaining if written well. Bringing people back from the dead, having something be all a dream or having a main character be under the influence of drugs can be ways to mess with the multiverses, but still have only one actual reality. For example, I enjoyed the concept of having a brainwashed OQ reeking havoc on SC. It allowed SA to play a different type of character. It still had real consequences, but at the end of the day there was no reset button or alternative timeline/universe by which the show explained or was able to get rid of what happened. The arc as written had flaws, but overall I thought the concept was a good idea.

 

IDK, I guess I'm not really sold on this concept of AU/Multiverses being something I would enjoy on Arrow. I'm not fully against it. But I think it has the potential to harm the show more so than help it. Where it might be an asset on  LoT & Flash, I see it as a BIG liability on Arrow.

[nksarmi]

I've given a lot of thought to how they could help KC/Laurel along in the BC story telling next season - because if she's here, I want to enjoy her.  So, I want them to do a wee bit of a retcon.  I don't think at this point that they can retcon in martial arts skills, but I would believe them if they told us that Laurel did some combination of gymnastics and ballet in her youth.

 

Don't get me wrong - Nyssa's "I have been a most excellent trainer" still lives as one of my favorite lines ever.  But I always kind of wanted to see Roy train a bit more, so I need them to still have Laurel doing something next season to try to improve.  Same with Thea.  Yes, they established she was a crack shot early and they had her train with Malcolm for 6 months, but I still want more for her - preferably with her brother because I love their dynamic.

 

But back to Laurel - I would like them to show that when they were kids Sara was the jock, but Laurel wasn't just a brain.  That she was into gymnastics (but gave it up at some point) and ballet.  I'd like them to have Daddy Lance walk in on her stretching out in ballet workout cloths and have him comment about it being nice to see her find another outlet for her frustrations only for her to say that Nyssa told her that if she did her old routines, she could up her agility and flexibility in the field.  Then he can get all exasperated with her but ask her to lunch or something.  I also want to see that relationship mended asap as I HATE Lance family drama.

 

So yea, I think if they retcon like this, the stunt coordinator can show Laurel do a few more fancy moves and not just try to make us believe that Laurel can punch a guy out.

[tarotx]

I can believe ballet so a recon there I'm all for but Laurel hasn't faught like a gymnast so not that. Maybe a Rythmic gymnast? That would also give her some believability with learning weaponry since that involves coordinating hand apparatus.

Edited May 22, 2015 by tarotx

[Chaser]

My issue with adding something into Laurel's background is its going to be Laurel 4.0 at this point. Another season, another Laurel.

 

Sure they could add in a ballet or gymnastic background, but it won't erase the fact that she tumbled on the car. I would rather they just stick with what they got.

[statsgirl]

I figure we're stuck with Laurel's fighting ability, which is pretty bad when it's KC doing it and pretty good when it's her stunt double.  Even if they retcon a background in ballet (she doesn't move like one) or gymnastics (I think KC did rhythmic gymnastics when she was a teenager), it's still going going to account for her ability to fight as much as being trained by Nyssa.  That's the best idea they've had for her, and Nyssa needs to come back and train her some more.  Also, LoA training would explain why she can beat up bad guys who have been fighting for years.  (But now why she can defeat 3 LoA assassins, that was a major fail in 3x22.)

 

My bigger problem is this (from the Behind the Scenes thread):

 

See, if this was the case it sort of would've worked for me. To see Laurel in denial about her sister's death to the point where she didn't want her sister's legacy to die. But it didn't come across that way for me. I think she accepted Sara's death, Laurel just wanted to be just like Sara because it eased the fire in her (which is exactly what she told Oliver when she asked him to train her I think). Oliver even called her out on being an addict and Laurel didn't deny this fact. So IMO her putting on the mask had less to do with keeping Sara around, than it was to satisfy her thirst/her fire. 

The motivation for Laurel makes a lot of sense if she's doing it because she thinks Sara stole her life (as she said in s2) and now wants to take Sara's because she's unhappy with her own and admires Sara's.  And because she's an addict and fighting is the addiction. 

 

But they seem to have dropped that whole addiction/SWF thing except in terms of her calling out her father on drinking.  I'd like the show to explore it more because if it's done properly, I  think they could get more sympathy for Laurel.

 

 

My initial reaction about the multiverses universes as a way to please all groups of fans may not work and may cause more harm to the show than good. I do not have a lot of experience with shows that have multiverse universes, so I may not fully understand how they work.

Stargate SG1 used to use multiverses to do what they wouldn't do on the show itself, a lot of the time putting Sam and Jack together which they refused to do on the show.  (The closest they got was a cut line in Stargate Atlantis when she said she was dating an older man in Washington.)  I found them less interesting than the other things on the show.

 

I will give them bringing Sara back because I think it was a huge mistake to kill Sara, but I don't want multiple universes on Arrow.   It's too confusing (they already have trouble handling two shows), and the potential for disaster is huge.

[BkWurm1]

By 3x20, he had already planned his suicide mission to take down Ra's with the bioweapon in the plane.

 

Just a small correction to something I keep seeing pop up.  Oliver did not plan his suicide mission on the plane until after his team failed in 3.22 (since Ra's was using the drone to lure out any that might try to stop him)  So while Oliver certainly didn't have a guarantee he'd survive his time with the LoA, he hadn't already signed his own death warrant. 

 

 

 

I know everyone's expecting Bratva in the flashbacks next season, but does anyone think it might be something else, and Bratva saved for season five? The question about Coast City in the finale thread just made me think. Do you all think that was just another Easter Egg, or was it a hint?

Since the season finale did send him to Coast City and there were an awful lot of mentions of Ferris Air, I expect that is where Oliver is going.  Will it involve the Bratva?  It could since we don't have to be in Russia for the Bratva to exist but I suspect that they are saving it for season five when Oliver just goes dark, dark, dark. 

[AyChihuahua]

Just a small correction to something I keep seeing pop up.  Oliver did not plan his suicide mission on the plane until after his team failed in 3.22 (since Ra's was using the drone to lure out any that might try to stop him)  So while Oliver certainly didn't have a guarantee he'd survive his time with the LoA, he hadn't already signed his own death warrant. 

Fully agree.  He didn't even know Ra's had the virus at that point (and in fact Ra's didn't have it, Nyssa did), so he could not possibly have made up that specific plan until quite a bit later.  In 3.20 he knew, through Malcolm, that Ra's would want to destroy Starling, but could not possibly have known HOW yet.  I also expect he knew that Ra's would try to brainwash/drug him.  He was, in 3.20, willing to die and probably somewhat EXPECTING to die, but he wasn't PLANNING to die.

[catahoulamama]

 

Since the season finale did send him to Coast City and there were an awful lot of mentions of Ferris Air, I expect that is where Oliver is going.  Will it involve the Bratva?  It could since we don't have to be in Russia for the Bratva to exist but I suspect that they are saving it for season five when Oliver just goes dark, dark, dark. 

 

I don't think it was made clear that Oliver was actually headed for Coast City. The ship they showed was registered in Coast City. It easily could have been an Easter Egg, and the same goes for the Green Lantern nods.

[kismet]

Do we think that he might be headed to Coast City in the present? It certainly was sunny & that coast line was beautiful in the frame out. Because I really thought that he had no specific destination when I first watched the finale. Since I've now seen the ending multiple times it just feels like perhaps I'm just being naive. As much as I want to believe in carefree, happy Oliver - I can't imagine him not having some type of plan/destination. I'm not saying that he didn't use the opportunity to get out of SC for a well needed vacation. But perhaps he went to Coast CIty to see some people he needs to see from his FB days. There might be some business to settle there either in s4 or comics 3.5. In S1, he seemed fine to just up & move to Coast City with McKenna despite having a mission in SC. I just think there is something cooking in CC, that will factor into S4 even if it is not the FB. My gut is telling me that will be the incubus for starting the team & the homebase of LoT.

Edited May 23, 2015 by kismet

[BkWurm1]

All I could tell from the finale is that they were in reality not driving off into the sunset.  They were driving with their backs to the sunset.  (I know, I know, nit pick, lol!)  So we know they were headed East which is no surprise since they were on the coast in Starling City, really no where left to go West unless they hopped a boat.

 

In my mind I imagined that they were not going to settle in any particular place.  That seemed to be part of Oliver's fantasy, to be free to go any where he wanted at any time.  They just get in the car and drive, leaving everything behind. 

 

I think if this show had real guts it would have been very interesting to see them finally find some place they want to put down roots and see what would Oliver do as a "regular" guy.  What would he do?  Has he ever even had a job apart from CEO or coerced agent for Argus?  What would he be drawn toward?  As much as he is inclined to help people, I really don't see him as a police officer, he doesn't have the rule following mentality needed.  The reality both in show and out of it is Oliver is only really qualified to be a vigilante with maybe a side job of Face of either a company or city.  He's not the guy to be bothered with the details. 

Edited May 23, 2015 by BkWurm1

[tv echo]

I figure we're stuck with Laurel's fighting ability, which is pretty bad when it's KC doing it and pretty good when it's her stunt double.  Even if they retcon a background in ballet (she doesn't move like one) or gymnastics (I think KC did rhythmic gymnastics when she was a teenager), it's still going going to account for her ability to fight as much as being trained by Nyssa.  That's the best idea they've had for her, and Nyssa needs to come back and train her some more.  Also, LoA training would explain why she can beat up bad guys who have been fighting for years.  (But now why she can defeat 3 LoA assassins, that was a major fail in 3x22.)

Agree.  When I think of someone who moves like she has a ballet background, I think of Summer Glau as River Tam and the way River smoothly and gracefully fought her way through a club and later through a pack of Reavers in Serenity.

[kismet]

Part of me is still a little bitter in how they wasted Summer Glau as Isabel. I wish they could bring her back in some capacity. I loved that the villain got killed, esp by Felicity. But really like China White, it was nice to have a talented female nemesis who had martial arts skills. I wonder if they could use her in FB.

[statsgirl]

River Tam's fight sequence in Serenity was a thing of beauty.

 

I think the show's EP fanboys got very excited at at booking Summer Glau and then didn't really know what to do with her and also had trouble working around her schedule.  I think I read somewhere that the lunge at the end of 2x13 was supposed to be Oliver/Isabel, not Oliver/Sara but Glau wasn't available.  It certainly would have made for a different take on the storyline

 

 

I don't think it was made clear that Oliver was actually headed for Coast City. The ship they showed was registered in Coast City. It easily could have been an Easter Egg, and the same goes for the Green Lantern nods.

Good point, that ships are registered to where it makes the most economic advantage for the company, not to where they are going.

 

I really don't think that ship is going to make it to Coast City, I strongly think something will happen at sea to head it north towards Russia. But there could be a Coast City tie-in, maybe to HIVE if the LoA is going to be based in Coast City.

 

I think if this show had real guts it would have been very interesting to see them finally find some place they want to put down roots and see what would Oliver do as a "regular" guy.  What would he do?  Has he ever even had a job apart from CEO or coerced agent for Argus?  What would he be drawn toward?  As much as he is inclined to help people, I really don't see him as a police officer, he doesn't have the rule following mentality needed.  The reality both in show and out of it is Oliver is only really qualified to be a vigilante with maybe a side job of Face of either a company or city.  He's not the guy to be bothered with the details. 

Oliver can put down roots after the show is done.

 

I wish we could have seen more of Nyssa discovering what life is like away from Nanda Parbat, and that's what I'd like to happen with Oliver on the road trip, to find out what it's like to be an adult dealing with the world in the way he never did while he was Ollie and couldn't afford to while he was on his Arrow crusade.

 

I don't see him settling away from Starling City at this point though. He's got such a huge sense of responsibility that eventually he's going to feel the need to go back and make sure it's okay, especially if he hears Ray is dead/missing.  Leaving his city with only Diggle, Laurel and Thea to defend it, the last two neophytes, has got to be worrying.

 

Oliver is a good leader, and hopefully he'll do more than bark out orders now, so I can see him becoming a humanitarian, maybe creating a foundation to help The Glades, and later becoming mayor as he does in the comics.  When he figures out what he wants to be, there are courses out there for whatever he wants to do. I can recommend Jeffry Sack's mooc on sustainable development if he's going to try to make a difference in the world..

. 

[BkWurm1]

I don't see him settling away from Starling City at this point though. He's got such a huge sense of responsibility that eventually he's going to feel the need to go back and make sure it's okay, especially if he hears Ray is dead/missing.  Leaving his city with only Diggle, Laurel and Thea to defend it, the last two neophytes, has got to be worrying.

 

No, I don't see him settling down really either.  At the most maybe they will have stopped and hung around some beach town  (based on SA saying that the first scene of Oliver will be him running - I expect it will be sounds of his heavy breathing only for the camera to zoom out and show the beautiful setting and him running for the shear fun of it, not because dudes are trying to kill him) 

 

I'm wondering if they will have somehow gone off grid and been hard to contact, either that or they got the news of Ray's "death" were sorry to hear it but didn't see how going back would make any difference to Ray (or they went back and hit the road again immediately.)  Either way I doubt the news of Felicity's  ownership would reach them immediately. 

 

I suspect that Laurel got a huge handwave from the producers and that yes, they do expect both Oliver and the audience to think Laurel and Thea can handle Starling alone.  It's absurd but hey, not much more than Laurel's whole rise to power.  

 

I think it would be interesting to see Oliver attempt to be Oliver Queen only back in Starling but on review of TPTB's habits of rushing storylines, they will probably have him in the suit by the end of the 1st episode and if we are lucky, he will also trying to explore what he can do as strictly Oliver Queen.