Hopes and Fears: How Will We Survive This Island? (Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers)

[calliope1975]

Spec:   Tatsu said that Oliver would have to give up what he held dearest in order to  "defeat" Ra's. What if he has to send Thea to train as one of the League? Oliver would know she is alive. She'd be in one of the more (relatively) safer places in the DC-verse. She'd "just" be an assassin for Ra's.  Everybody is taking for granted that Ra's is totally unreasonable about whether an innocent was used as a pawn. In other words, taking Malcolm's word as gospel.

 

Maybe Tatsu knows about Ra's because she had to give up Maseo for backstory to be written later?

 

Hmmm. I know the assumption is that Tatsu and Maseo's kid is dead but what if she had to give him up as well as Maseo? From babyNyssa and DJ Doucebag, we know the LOA seems to take all ages.

 

Mostly, I just don't want a dead kid (or a dead anyone) on this show.

[Actionmage]

Right now, my only other thought is dead Thea but I would have to stop then, despite my love for Team Arrow.   With the EPs saying outloud to press that they wonder how to break their characters each season? Losing Thea would hurt Oliver the absolute most. I don't want that, but these IIC have lost whatever trust I have in them going any direction but cheap, lazy, easy, and anti- strong female character (Moira and Sara, MacKenzie and Helena, Dinah Sr., Laurel for a hot minute, DA Kate, and Waller.)

 

I could live with Thea taking a spot in Nanda Parbat; I think Nyssa could come to respect, if not like, Thea. She'd be alive and could visit.

[tv echo]

I just posted some MG tumblr clarifications in the "Uprising" thread, including one that strongly implied that

Felicity

is the treasure that Oliver loses in order to battle Ra's.  (Not really a spoiler, but just in case.)

Edited February 5, 2015 by tv echo

[SleepDeprived]

One of my biggest hopes and fears about the show, right now, has everything to do with what the writers are trying with Malcolm Merlyn.

 

I pray to all the Lords of Kobol that these writers are not actually serious about this attempt at a redemption arc with Malcolm. I hope that there is actually going to be some sort of twist that will clearly communicate that no way in hell will everything that Malcolm has done be swept under the rug for him to become some sort of misunderstood anti-hero. He is a murdering, lying, self-serving, opportunistic, manipulative villain who should get his comeuppance (preferably by Thea's blade). Not this thing that the writers seem to be pulling with Oliver, the hero of the show, being the one burdened to atone for Malcolm's sins.

 

But I fear that because Malcolm is played by John Barrowman and everyone's in love with him, the writers are actually serious with this forced redemption drivel. No way am I ever going to be here for that.

[apinknightmare]

I'm hoping that they're having Thea defend him so fervently so it makes her taking him down once she finds out what he did to her all the sweeter. 

[dtissagirl]

All of the "only the student can defeat the master" anvils point to Thea defeating Malcolm, but right now I just hope for it really hard.

My fear is this storyline is just too much Malcolm for me. As someone who doesn't really enjoy Barrowman's brand of no ham is too much ham, here let me chew more scenery idea of acting, this is gonna grate my nerves something fierce.

[TobinAlbers]

Honestly, I think they're going to pull a Smallville Lionel Luthor/Lex Luthor with Malcolm/Tommy with Malcolm being on the road to redemption via Thea and everyone warming to him for showing a true changing of he ways when Tommy (brainwashed by Ra's; trained by the League to be a ruthless killer; driven mad by Lazarus Pit resurrection) will return hell bent on righteous revenge and Team Arrow will actually stand against him to protect Merlyn.

 

Initially Tommy will be a wolf in sheep's clothing and Oliver and Malcolm will be glad to have him back; but then Tommy's conditioning will reveal itself, Malcolm will be suspicious and Tommy will kill Malcolm and rise to be an even bigger evil than Malcolm ever was with Oliver having to avenge Malcolm (having embraced Malcolm as a Thea's father) and stop his onetime BFF in a battle to the death.

 

I'm really hoping I'm wrong, but with the WTFery of last night's episode and how they seem to talk around Tommy while having him be the elephant in the room, I really think that he's primed for a suprise present day return. And I think the reason why Oliver didn't get the Lazarus Pit dip is because they were saving it for Tommy.

[ohjoy]

From the episode thread:

I have to believe Oliver isn't really working with Merlyn, but training under him to learn what he needs to defeat him.

This is totally what I assumed the "only the student can defeat the master" quip followed by Oliver asking to become Malcolm's student meant. Though I'm also totally willing to give up that thesis for any insane idea that gets Tommy back. Let him be Red Hood crazy. I don't care.

[apinknightmare]

From the episode thread:

This is totally what I assumed the "only the student can defeat the master" quip followed by Oliver asking to become Malcolm's student meant. Though I'm also totally willing to give up that thesis for any insane idea that gets Tommy back. Let him be Red Hood crazy. I don't care.

 

Yeah, I got that he was asking to be trained, too. But he really needed to explain that when he was in the foundry, because "Malcolm and I are working on that" sounds like they're in cahoots. Even Diggle was giving him the patented "THIS DUMBASS" side eye. 

Edited February 5, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Trini]

So, Oliver's plan is to train with Merlyn and kill Ra's al Ghul, right? The problem with that is that you can't really kill Ra's, and even if you could, it's not happening on frellin' Arrow. I don't know how they plan ending this arc, but Ra's being killed isn't even a serious option for me to consider.

 

For me the best option is for Merlyn to go up against Ra's and Ra's kills him; Ra's agrees to stay out of Starling.

[statsgirl]

I think Malcolm will be the one to die this season, not Ra's. Or maybe he won't die since you have to be Tommy before you're a man who dies on this show.

 

When Tatsu said that Oliver would have so sacrifice the thing he loves the most I figured it was Felicity he was going to lose, especially as soon as he announced he was teaming with MM, Felicity walked out,  But it's always possible that it will be the Oliver who is a hero that he will lose.

 

I find this "it takes a student to defeat the master" a horrible plot contrivance to get Oliver working with MM.  You  need someone with new ideas and new techniques to do that.

 

After seeing the episode, I like that they tried to soften Merlyn and it was a good episode for Barrowman but I'm still on the "Malcolm Merlyn is a scorpion" who won't change his ways" train.  I think he's do something heroic in the end to redeem himself as he dies but before that, Oliver is going to have a sharp lesson in 'be careful who you ally yourself with', as he watches Felicity get closer to Ray because she's so disappointed in Oliver.

 

My fear is this storyline is just too much Malcolm for me. As someone who doesn't really enjoy Barrowman's brand of no ham is too much ham, here let me chew more scenery idea of acting, this is gonna grate my nerves something fierce.

Yeah, Barrowman is great in small doses. I liked him in Uprising but I'm afraid if that if they over-emphasize him (as these EPs are wont to do) I'll be fed up fast. Less is more, people.

Edited February 6, 2015 by statsgirl

[Starfish35]

Some comments in the Uprising episode thread got me to thinking. What do you think the chances are of Rila Fukushima joining the cast full time next season?

The only reason I'm thinking it might be possible is because someone asked Marc awhile back on his Tumblr about the lack of diversity on Arrow compared to The Flash, and he said something about it being something they're working on. Which is kind of a non-answer I know, but still.

I don't know why I'm still looking for reasons to keep watching this show. *sigh*

Edited February 6, 2015 by Starfish35

[apinknightmare]

With whichever EP (AK, maybe?) saying she'll become Katana by the end of the season, maybe she's one of the "legitimate heroes" or whatever DR called them, that frees Oliver up to be a real boy. 

[statsgirl]

As opposed to the illegitimate ones?  ;-)

[jay741982]

With whichever EP (AK, maybe?) saying she'll become Katana by the end of the season, maybe she's one of the "legitimate heroes" or whatever DR called them, that frees Oliver up to be a real boy.

And start a future with Felicity and running QC hopefully

[Trini]

 

. What do you think the chances are of Rila Fukushima joining the cast full time next season?

 

Slim? They could change it, but it looks like her warrior days are behind her. But can we keep Maseo? The hot Chinese guy is the only reason I've paid attention to the flashbacks this season.

[Starfish35]

I'm confused - why would you think her warrior days are behind her? She hasn't become Katana yet.

[calliope1975]

After seeing the episode, I like that they tried to soften Merlyn and it was a good episode for Barrowman but I'm still on the "Malcolm Merlyn is a scorpion" who won't change his ways" train.  I think he's do something heroic in the end to redeem himself as he dies but before that, Oliver is going to have a sharp lesson in 'be careful who you ally yourself with', as he watches Felicity get closer to Ray because she's so disappointed in Oliver.

 

I've decided that even if Malcolm dies "heroically" I could never see him as such. Deliberate hyperbole ahead - if Hitler had jumped in front of a bullet for Eva Braun, would anyone consider him remotely heroic? It's been said, and giffed before, but that Brooklyn 99 quote sums it up for me - "Cool motive, still murder."

 

So go ahead Malcolm, save Thea. Sacrifice to Ra's to save someone else's life. You're still the guy who killed 1/2 a neighborhood, probably injured thousands more, indirectly killed your son, and committed so very many other horrible atrocities. You still suck.

 

I do wonder why I don't view others as harshly like Nyssa. I may have to think on that.

[Trini]

I'm confused - why would you think her warrior days are behind her? She hasn't become Katana yet.

 

Sorry, I don't know her story from the comics; but she seemed to be in hiding. 

[tv echo]

A student defeats the master only if there are other forces at play.  The master will always have trained longer and knows all the tricks that the student does.  Ra's has trained for hundreds of years and killed hundreds of his students.

 

How does a student defeat his teacher?  By learning new tricks or by outwitting his teacher.  Batman defeated Ra's in Batman Begins by tricking Ra's into not minding his environment.  Oliver defeated Slade by outwitting him with Felicity (the first time on the freighter, Slade was defeated more by his surroundings than by Oliver).  Darth Vader defeated Obi-Wan Kenobi because Obi-Wan was old and also let him win that fight.

 

So unless Oliver can learn new tricks, outwit Ra's or wait for Ra's to get old, I don't see how he can ever beat him.

Edited February 6, 2015 by tv echo

[Password]

Erm... So you're saying Ra's won't fall for "Slade took Laurel because he thinks she's the woman I love...he took the wrong woman"?

I mean it's perfect. Ra's beat by history.

[tv echo]

LOL... I would hope that Ra's also acquired some smarts and wisdom during his hundreds of years.

[Password]

Yeah and also I don't think Felicity would hit him with a Mirakuru cure. Junk punch? Perhaps.

[apinknightmare]

LOL... I would hope that Ra's also acquired some smarts and wisdom during his hundreds of years.

 

Well, he obviously hasn't been working on his beer gut, so he must be exercising his mind.

[jay741982]

Yeah and also I don't think Felicity would hit him with a Mirakuru cure. Junk punch? Perhaps.

I'd love if FELICITY helped take down Ra's lol. Don't think she would be able to but it would be funny

[Chiny11]

I want to play "devil's advocate" and want to read what you guys think.

Question: With the depressing angst they've thrown at Olicity... What if (remember this is just a "what if") they do a Lauriver "lunge"/hookup?

How do you think Olicity will fare from the viewers perspective? Do you think shippers will give up and turn in their Olicity shipping card?

[calliope1975]

I would not only turn in my Show Shipper Card (I'd still read fanfic and live with the better show taking place in my head) but I'd also quit the show. I see no basis for anything lusty or romantic between Laurel and Oliver at this moment or throughout this season. Next season or in the future, sadly, all bets are off. But this year? Oh hell no, I'd be done.

[dtissagirl]

I'm trying to think of a couple I quit 'shipping because something happened that made me stop. I think it never happened; I just quit the shows and continue to read the fic instead.

[Password]

I'd be done.

[Genki]

Would likely quit the show, but would check in now and then to see how it was doing. So essentially wouldn't quit the ship, because it could get me back into the show. It probably fare better in binge watching anyway

[Chaser]

Somewhere along the way, Oliver and Laurel became my NOTP. If they went that direction, even for a hook-up I would be done with the show. I would still ship Olicity but Oliver would be so damaged for me I wouldn't watch.

[ohjoy]

Honestly, I'm halfway out the door as it is. The promise of Olicity is the only thing keeping me hanging on, and if Laurel (or really anybody) lands in Oliver's lap instead, I am so done with this show. I'll just repeat Felicity's "I don't want to be a woman you love" on my way out.

[statsgirl]

I think a Lauriver lunge will be a massive turn-off of the show not only for Olicity shippers but for anyone who likes Felicity.  They'll be left with the fans who only want what's in the comic books.

[Nagevs]

  They'll be left with the fans who only want what's in the comic books.

 

Deep down I think that's what they truly want.  This season to me has felt like it's been written for the comic book fans than any other set of viewers.

[KirkB]

Deep down I think that's what they truly want.  This season to me has felt like it's been written for the comic book fans than any other set of viewers.

 

 

Maybe, but they're still failing. I'm a comic book fan, well, less so than I used to be but still, and I'm terribly disappointed in what's happening to the show. I'm not a big Olicity supporter, though the way they are treating the two of them is ridiculous. Even Laurel in the Canary suit isn't enough to make me stop watching. On the other hand, killing Sara for Laurel, everyone actively lying to Quentin about it, almost all of them acting out of character, Thea's whole arc such as it is, Ra's being a huge failure (and him one of my favorite DC villains), the utter stupidity of the story line for these last three episodes, and now working with Malcolm, in combination with pushing Ray and Laurel in to costumes neither has earned, has lessened my overall enjoyment of the show to the point I am actually considering stopping. I'm not going to quit just yet though, I want to see how the rest of the season pans out. It's still possible it could recover, but how season three ends will be a major part of whether or not I come back for season four.

[Chiny11]

Thanks for all the comments. Interesting read.

For me, if a Lauriver lunge/hookup happens, I won't come back to the show (I am currently not watching).

Anyway, let's see how it goes.

[GirlWednesday]

I broke down and watched the last three episodes and then watched season 2a. So I now have a question.

Back in the day, EPs said there is a five year story arc. They have burnt thru a lot in 2.5 yrs.

Malcolm Merlin/ dark archer, death stroke, if they burn thru Ra's al Ghul. Who's left?

In terms of major foils for green arrow.

I would expect that Tommy does come back, it makes sense. They keep coming back to that tripe of first/second generation of the green arrow, death stroke, canary (sniff. Damn you Laurel!)

So that leaves Tommy as dark archer #2, NYSSA as the new demon, who else...

Chiny11, I'd quit the show I think. Laurel is too insufferable. I ffwd all her scenes but I cannot stand the thought of Ll/OQ together. Yuk

Edited February 7, 2015 by GirlWednesday

[statsgirl]

I don't think Nyssa will replace Ra's during the time of the show.  Ra's is too important a character in the comics.

 

As much as I liked Tommy and hate that they killed him off, I would rage if he came back.  Tommy is the only male character who  died and didn't return back alive again like Slade, Malcolm, Oliver and even Cooper did. Meanwhile Shado, Moira and Sara, three great characters the show really could use, remain dead dead.

 

It's too bad there isn't a character currently on the show who could become the Dark Archer #2.  I'd say Roy but he's a nice guy and he has his own comic book heritage. Possibly Thea but I get the feeling the show wants her to be good albeit clueless.

 

From the episode thread:

The only thing I can think of that makes a little bit of sense is Oliver banking on Malcolm teaching him to fight dirty. If he thinks Malcolm knows of some weakness in Ra's.

But then, dirty fighting for real could be solved by one of two phone calls [ARGUS has missiles, Barry Allen has a super sonic punch], so I got nothing.

Yeah. If Ra's is so bad and Oliver has to pull out all the stops to defeat him even to making a deal with Malcolm, why not really pull out all the stops and get Barry's help?  Surely by not Oliver knows Malcolm Merlyn can't be trusted. Just ask Diggle and Felicity. Just ask Sara or Robert .... oops, they're dead.

[GirlWednesday]

Now I'm spitballing but watching season 2a made me realize that the writers could have fixed Laurel (imo) quite easily and in thirty seconds of the first S2 episode. LL losing tommy, decided to hit the streets as a cop. Every scene she had in season 2 could have been better if she was a beat cop that used excessive violence to settle scores and was also alcoholic. Sarah comes back, LL is pissed that sarah brought danger into their lives, kicks her out. On and on. Instead of Lazarus pit or some other shenanigans, Slade saved Tommy using mirakuru (which made him insane) and then it would Turn Laurel against oliver becuz of Tommy love (in my mind would have worked better, though you do make a great point about the imbalance of men coming back and not women). THEA goes with the merlins.

Now season 3 could have been about sara and oliver learning to be full heros, going back to what made season2a great (great episodic crime fighting with team arrow expanded). Meanwhile merlins plus LL/man hunter are training up to fight Ra's al Ghul. Season 2b could have been about merlins putting team arrow in the cross hairs of the league and then becuz of THEA, team arrow is forced to split up. Blah blah angst.

Someone needs to write this fanfic so I have something to hang on towhen arrow impodes! Lol

Edited February 7, 2015 by GirlWednesday

[BkWurm1]

I'm trying to think of a couple I quit 'shipping because something happened that made me stop. I think it never happened; I just quit the shows and continue to read the fic instead.

I came very close on Smallville.  The end of season eight when Clark turned on Chloe basically blaming her for everything and walked out on her at her lowest moment made me hate him with a seething energy I can still recapture if I dwell on the episode very long.  I quit the show but kept track of it for the first half of the following season but was lured back for the second half of the season for other reasons.  In the final season I watched only the Chloe, Hawkman, and Lionel Luthor episodes.  I splashed around in the shallow Chloe and Oliver pool, even had some very lurid thoughts at what a Hawkman and Chloe pairing would have look like but even hating Clark, I still couldn't help but see the connection and continued wasted potential between Chloe and Clark.  It was always IMO the potentially better story.  Even right down to the final episode where he was supposed to get married, I watched half hating him and half screaming silently at the screen "See! See!  Chlark should be together!"  Took me another year after the show ended before I stopped wanting to supply Clark with a kryptonite laced enema, but I didn't stop shipping.  I tried, but some ships are unsinkable.  

 

I'm pretty sure Olicity falls in the category for me. 

[BkWurm1]

Back in the day, EPs said there is a five year story arc. They have burnt thru a lot in 2.5 yrs.

Malcolm Merlin/ dark archer, death stroke, if they burn thru Ra's al Ghul. Who's left?

In terms of major foils for green arrow.

 

In terms of story telling, we still have for flashbacks Oliver's years in the Russian mafia.  In the present we need to find out about the Central City son, get back his company to name a few.  I'm sure we'll see the Huntress come back to be more fully redeemed.  When it comes to foes, I expect that they will start importing some more specific Black Canary foes (whoever they are) and hopefully more on how shady ARGUS really is, maybe more on whatever group was behind the hit on Diggle's brother. 

 

I suspect the show runners will devise a villain first and then look to see who in the DC goodybox sort kinda fits and use ties to personal events to make him/her a big bad rather than just relying on comic reputation for inspiration.  I'm still waiting for Waller to be the force of evil we all know she is. 

Edited February 7, 2015 by BkWurm1

[GirlWednesday]

I forgot about argus and the present day son.

Also doesn't Slade have a son or a daughter. Nyssa has sisters.

I hated lana so I tuned out from smallville season one, came back for Jensen and tuned out. Dawson's creek soulmates is another example of writers not adjusting their original game plan after show begins.

Arrow's Felicity and Veronica Mars' Logan are the only ones I can think of in recent memory that have adjusted their vision to suit what is working.

[BkWurm1]

Dawson's creek soulmates is another example of writers not adjusting their original game plan after show begins.

 

I didn't watch, but I thought that Dawson's creek was an example where they did switch end game, from Dawson and Joey to Joey and Pacy (I think was the name) 

[GirlWednesday]

Well like adding more to the Felicity role, they extended pacy as endgame. But even in the last hour of the show, Dawson was all " we are soulmates".

I get reminders of that stupid soulmate shit every time Laurel says to oliver " I know you better than anyone"

My reaction is always " Uhm no... Loneytunes lance, you do not know him better than anyone". The writers keep having LL saying stuff like that, just like Dawson and the soulmate schtik.

[SmallScreenDiva]

There'd been speculation on this forum about whether Oliver actually has a longer game plan than Malcolm and at the end will turn around and say, "Gotcha!" I couldn't quite buy that because, well, "Arrow" has never quite shown Oliver to be particularly good at playing a long game of chess, which is essentially what this would be. Also, it would be quite similar to the ruse he played on Slade, and many of us are still upset, debating whether Felicity knew about the plan. This would be a much deeper deception. SmoakandArrow over on Tumblr wrote a pretty good explanation of the risks of following that particular course. I know, I know ... some of you are going to say, well, they already ARE upsetting/disappointing of viewers ;)

 

... if Oliver whips around at the end to point a finger at Malcolm and be like, “Booyah! I knew all along, sucker!” is that really satisfying enough to excuse what we’d have watched him sacrifice, use, hurt, and mislead for 10+ episodes? For what?  Just to be the smartest guy in the room?  You really run a great risk of ticking your viewers off and setting Oliver back instead of push him a step closer to that hero goal.

[tv echo]

Here's what I'm dreading...

 

Oliver resolves his identity issue this season - I can be both Oliver Queen and the Arrow!  We go 'great, now nothing is stopping him from getting together with Felicity'.  But wait... now Felicity is with Ray, and Laurel is sidling up to Oliver every chance she gets.  So season 4, we don't just have a love triangle of doom, we have a love quadrangle of doom.  

 

Or - if Ray spins off (we care not where), we have Felicity and Laurel being the Betty and Veronica to Oliver's Archie.

 

Because it's the CW - Melodrama Central - and these EPs have no idea how to write a good. ongoing relationship between two people who clearly love each other.

Edited February 7, 2015 by tv echo

[SmallScreenDiva]

Here's what I'm dreading...

 

Oliver resolves his identity issue this season - I can be both Oliver Queen and the Arrow!  We go 'great, now nothing is stopping him from getting together with Felicity'.  But wait... now Felicity is with Ray, and Laurel is sidling up to Oliver every chance she gets.  So season 4, we don't just have a love triangle of doom, we have a love quadrangle of doom.  

 

Or - if Ray spins off (we care not where), we have Felicity and Laurel being the Betty and Veronica to Oliver's Archie.

 

Because it's the CW - Melodrama Central - and these EPs have no idea how to write a good. ongoing relationship between two people who clearly love each other.

 

Oh, I have no doubt they're going to twist Oliver and Felicity into pretzels before they put them together for 5 seconds, and then they'll introduce Baby Mama or something. But I just can't imagine Laurel being inserted back romantically into Oliver's life. Because even if everything changes -- she's BC now, he's GA, yay for the comics crowd -- he's still the douche who banged her sister repeatedly and cheated on her repeatedly, and she's still the same doormat who refused to see it. Also, and I think this is a fairly important point, Katie Cassidy and Stephen Amell still have the chemistry of a black hole.

 

The show can sell Ray and Felicity and Oliver as a "love triange" *rme* because at least, IMO, there's chemistry between the actors and the characters. Is it the sizzling hot chemistry between Felicity and Oliver/Emily and Stephen? Big nope! But Ray, despite all the flaws in his character, actually has a pretty playful/friendly chemistry with Felicity. 

 

Edited to add: Unless they give Laurel and Oliver that drug Malcolm used to mind-rape Thea.

Edited February 7, 2015 by SmallScreenDiva

[BkWurm1]

If the show goes back to anything Laurel/Oliver romantically related , I want to be given the mind rape drug. A memory wipe would be the least this show could do for me at that point.

[Ang]

Oh, I have no doubt they're going to twist Oliver and Felicity into pretzels before they put them together for 5 seconds, and then they'll introduce Baby Mama or something. But I just can't imagine Laurel being inserted back romantically into Oliver's life. Because even if everything changes -- she's BC now, he's GA, yay for the comics crowd -- he's still the douche who banged her sister repeatedly and cheated on her repeatedly, and she's still the same doormat who refused to see it. Also, and I think this is a fairly important point, Katie Cassidy and Stephen Amell still have the chemistry of a black hole.

The show can sell Ray and Felicity and Oliver as a "love triange" *rme* because at least, IMO, there's chemistry between the actors and the characters. Is it the sizzling hot chemistry between Felicity and Oliver/Emily and Stephen? Big nope! But Ray, despite all the flaws in his character, actually has a pretty playful/friendly chemistry with Felicity.

Edited to add: Unless they give Laurel and Oliver that drug Malcolm used to mind-rape Thea.

Yes, pretzels. Yes, 5 seconds, and/or they'll give us Olicity in the most twisted, least satisfying way possible a la Buffy/Angel/Whedon. (So help me, if they have Felicity cheat on Ray with Oliver, I will lose it.)

I assume they'll END the series with BC and GA together, but I'm hoping it's in the last minutes of the last episode and only after they fully explore the relationship with Felicity and they send her off as a fully actualized human being who is defined neither by her relationship with a man nor her lack thereof.

Edited February 8, 2015 by Ang

[KirkB]

I assume they'll END the series with BC and GA together, but I'm hoping it's in the last minutes of the last episode and only after they fully explore the relationship with Felicity and they send her off as a fully actualized human being who is defined neither by her relationship with a man nor her lack thereof.

 

 

You're probably right, but now I'm thinking what I'd like to see (even though it makes no damn sense) is the show ends with Felicity in the Black Canary outfit, fighting side by side with the Green Arrow.