Hopes and Fears: How Will We Survive This Island? (Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers)

[statsgirl]

I've said it before, but I hope now that Ray's suit is out in the open, they move him into interacting more with the rest of the cast, hopefully through Felicity connecting Ray to Team Arrow.  It will mean less screen time for Felicity but they will need to develop the character more if they're seriously thinking of giving ATOM his own spin-off, and Brandon Routh is too big a name to leave as a stall ship love interest.

 

Presumably that's why he's going to be at the TCAs, to talk about his upcoming arc as he comes out of the closet ... I mean boardroom.

 

Well, in my mind it's not a scenario where Oliver says, "I'm going to make you trust me," and Felicity replies with, "Yes, I will give you the chance to earn my trust," it's going to be something that just sort of happens. Oliver already thinks that she's in a romantic relationship with Ray (MG said so on Twitter). Fighting for her doesn't have to be a verbal thing - Oliver doesn't have to tell her he's doing it. He's said he wants her to be happy, so I always thought he would just gradually show her that he's changed and is committed to her by just being himself - a man who loves her - and the more he does that, the more she'll realize that Ray? He ain't the guy. 

I kind of think he does have to tell her -- it feels wimpy for The Arrow to just sit back and let his girl get into a relationship with another guy without telling her he's going to fight for her, especially after what he's just gone through which hopefully clarified things for him.  Not to mention, it's leaving an awful lot to chance. What if she doesn't realize the depth of his feelings for her and falls for the other guy thinking Oliver's feelings are platonic?

 

 

And, you know, she's already started the process of trying to move on - just the last episode we found out that she thinks Oliver regrets kissing her.

To me, that's the key as to why she isn't going to move on to Ray.  She was fine kissing him and trying to move on while she thought that Oliver regretted kissing her, now she knows that he loves her so they're going to have to come up with another reason as to why she would start dating Ray. Not to mention, with Ray still thinking his fiance would be the last woman he kissed, that's got Rebound Relationship all over it, and I'd hope Felicity is smart enough to let Ray move on before she gets involved with him.

[apinknightmare]

 

I kind of think he does have to tell her -- it feels wimpy for The Arrow to just sit back and let his girl get into a relationship with another guy without telling her he's going to fight for her, especially after what he's just gone through which hopefully clarified things for him.  Not to mention, it's leaving an awful lot to chance. What if she doesn't realize the depth of his feelings for her and falls for the other guy thinking Oliver's feelings are platonic?

 

Well, first of all, he doesn't "let" her do anything. And he thinks Felicity and Ray are already in a relationship (per MG) after seeing them kissing at PI, so he's already walked away from that. I didn't think he was going to say, 'don't get into a relationship with him, because I want you to be in a relationship with me,' - he thinks she's already in one. I figured he'd just start to show her that he was a) serious about her and b) the better option for her all the while thinking she was with someone else.

 

I don't really care if/how all this happens, honestly, I just take real issue with the notion that Felicity is somehow a bad person or OOC or not being true to herself and her feelings or being vindictive or whatever for possibly wanting to pursue something with someone who openly wants to be with her, and has no issues whatsoever about committing to her. Oliver can love her all he wants, but until he's willing to do something about it and prove that he's in it for real this time, I personally don't need any other reason for her to be with someone else. I'm sure it was nice for Felicity to finally hear Oliver tell her that he loves her, but does that change anything? Not really. There's a broken bridge between them, and he needs repair the damage he did to it by repeatedly backing away from her.

 

If Oliver comes back and tells Felicity he wants to be with her and she says, "That's nice. Prove it," and she continues to flirt or kiss or whatever with Ray or whoever else she chooses, that's fine by me. Because Oliver's given her every reason to believe that he's going to back off again, and she doesn't owe him anything. She owes it to herself to be true to her feelings and if her feelings are that she loves Oliver but doesn't trust him to really commit to her and doesn't want to wait around in case he isn't ever able to? There will be no judgment from me. And ultimately it's not even worth caring about since I know they'll get together eventually. 

Edited January 10, 2015 by apinknightmare

[calliope1975]

He's a good idea, on paper, done badly.

 

This is the show's motto to me: Good idea. Done Badly. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

Well, first of all, he doesn't "let" her do anything. And he thinks Felicity and Ray are already in a relationship (per MG) after seeing them kissing at PI, so he's already walked away from that.

 

Would you happen to know where Guggenheim said this? WHich article or tweet? Just interested in his actual wording. I'd wondered about Oliver's thoughts about that Ray/Felicity kiss. I thought it played a role in the forehead kiss in the finale, that he thought she may already be in a relationship with Palmer hence no liplock.

 

It may be foolish of me, but I'm actualy a bit more hopeful regarding Olicity after doing a rewatch of the first half. I enjoyed Oliver's development. There's a lot of difference between the guy who couldn't even say ILY in the premiere to the guy who is very comfortable saying it in the winter finale. Now, I want to see Felicity's development. I definitely think Ray will be part of it, but maybe not in the way we're dreading. I'm starting to think there won't be another "lunge." Again, I said this may be foolish.

[statsgirl]

 

someone who openly wants to be with her, and has no issues whatsoever about committing to her.

Just to touch base a little, at this point that's not Ray.  He pulled back from kissing her, said he hadn't wanted it to be platonic between them, and is clearly still hung up on his dead fiance. He's even trying to save the city for Anna.

 

It's like with Barry, who loves Iris.  Felicity was smart enough to know that no good would come of them trying to make a go of it, and Barry is even more compatible with her than Ray is.  At this point Ray is still more in  his relationship with Anna than he is open to a real one with Felicity.

 

 

If Oliver comes back and tells Felicity he wants to be with her and she says, "That's nice. Prove it," and she continues to flirt or kiss or whatever with Ray or whoever else she chooses, that's fine by me.

I'd find it hard to forgive her, and she's my favorite character on the show.  ( I think it would spoil Olicity for me because I'd never trust her feelings again.  I hate the idea that much.)  

 

I think people deserve second chances to make things right when they realize they've made a mistake, and I'd find it even harder to deny one to someone I loved.

 

 

I'd wondered about Oliver's thoughts about that Ray/Felicity kiss. I thought it played a role in the forehead kiss in the finale, that he thought she may already be in a relationship with Palmer hence no liplock.

That makes sense to me.  But I still think it more likely that he kissed her on the forehead because it was like a benediction rather than something sexual.

 

ETA:  Thinking some more about it, I think that's the thing that would be most likely to make me give up on the show, not InstaCanary, who I could work around, but if Oliver came back and said "I died thinking of you. I realize I made a terrible mistake and I want us to be together" and Felicity were to reply "You had your chance and you blew it. If you want, you can try to prove to me what you're willing to do while I date and make out with Ray."  I don't think I could ever like Felicity again if she did that.

Edited January 11, 2015 by statsgirl

[Morrigan2575]

Would you happen to know where Guggenheim said this? WHich article or tweet? Just interested in his actual wording. I'd wondered about Oliver's thoughts about that Ray/Felicity kiss. I thought it played a role in the forehead kiss in the finale, that he thought she may already be in a relationship with Palmer hence no liplock.

someone asked MG on twitter if Oliver thought Ray/Felicity were in a relationship after he saw the kiss.

MG gave a snarky reply, like no he just thinks Felicity had something in her teeth and Ray was helping her remove it. No big.

Sorry, having trouble finding the conversation

Edited January 11, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[apinknightmare]

Would you happen to know where Guggenheim said this? WHich article or tweet? Just interested in his actual wording. I'd wondered about Oliver's thoughts about that Ray/Felicity kiss. I thought it played a role in the forehead kiss in the finale, that he thought she may already be in a relationship with Palmer hence no liplock.

 

It may be foolish of me, but I'm actualy a bit more hopeful regarding Olicity after doing a rewatch of the first half. I enjoyed Oliver's development. There's a lot of difference between the guy who couldn't even say ILY in the premiere to the guy who is very comfortable saying it in the winter finale. Now, I want to see Felicity's development. I definitely think Ray will be part of it, but maybe not in the way we're dreading. I'm starting to think there won't be another "lunge." Again, I said this may be foolish.

 

This was his response (the person asked if Oliver thought Ray and Felicity were in a romantic relationship after he saw them kissing): 

 

No. He just thinks she had something stuck in her teeth and asked him to remove it with his tongue.  It's all good.

 

Smart ass answer, but I think that Oliver telling Barry that he needed to let go of Iris for both their sakes while looking at Felicity, then telling he loved her but kissing her  on the forehead when he said goodbye - you can read between the lines that Oliver thinks they're together. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

Thanks Morrigan2575 and apinknightmare! I actually found the tweet, too. I can only roll my eyes at MG. There's being snarky, and then there's just being an ass. But yeah, that was my reading of Oliver's behavior and words in 3x08 and 3x09.

[apinknightmare]

Just to touch base a little, at this point that's not Ray.  He pulled back from kissing her, said he hadn't wanted it to be platonic between them, and is clearly still hung up on his dead fiance. He's even trying to save the city for Anna.

 

It's like with Barry, who loves Iris.  Felicity was smart enough to know that no good would come of them trying to make a go of it, and Barry is even more compatible with her than Ray is.  At this point Ray is still more in  his relationship with Anna than he is open to a real one with Felicity.

 

Right, at this particular point, that isn't Ray. But he and Felicity also aren't together. I expect that IF they were ever to get together, he'd be all in, and there wouldn't be any wishy-washiness on his part. He's open with her - she'll know where she stands with him. After all this time she still doesn't know where she stands with Oliver. He loves her, yeah, but he's not doing anything about it. Maybe that'll change when he comes back. I hope it does, and that nothing comes to fruition between her and Ray, and that Oliver will be honest with her and they'll work things out together. I just highly, highly doubt that'll happen.

 

 

 

I'd find it hard to forgive her, and she's my favorite character on the show.  ( I think it would spoil Olicity for me because I'd never trust her feelings again.  I hate the idea that much.) 

I think people deserve second chances to make things right when they realize they've made a mistake, and I'd find it even harder to deny one to someone I loved.

 

IDK, to me, being open to allowing him to prove himself to her and giving him a second chance does not mean she has to put her life on hold to wait for that to happen, because in her mind chances are high that he'll get spooked again and push her away. But I think that Oliver thinking that she's already in a relationship with Ray is going to come into play somehow - he's either going to think she's happy and not want to ruin it and realize that he wants to be with her so badly that he can't deny himself anymore, so he won't say anything for a while and maybe by that point Felicity and Ray ARE in a relationship, since he'll have come back after telling her he loves her and done nothing about it - so it's just another "maybe" to her - and she thought he wasn't serious...or something along those lines. 

 

 

ETA:  Thinking some more about it, I think that's the thing that would be most likely to make me give up on the show, not InstaCanary, who I could work around, but if Oliver came back and said "I died thinking of you. I realize I made a terrible mistake and I want us to be together" and Felicity were to reply "You had your chance and you blew it. If you want, you can try to prove to me what you're willing to do while I date and make out with Ray."  I don't think I could ever like Felicity again if she did that.

 

I doubt it would be that cut and dry, and I don't think she would flat-out deny him in any way that would be hurtful to him. She's not that kind of person. I'd also be surprised if he's initially that forthright and open with her, but I hope this show does surprise me. Like I wrote above, I really would like it if nothing ever happened with Ray, Oliver came back to fight for her and she let him, they grew closer and then got into a relationship together. That is definitely my preferred course of action. I just really don't think I'm going to get that. At all, not by a long shot.

Edited January 11, 2015 by apinknightmare

[statsgirl]

I doubt Felicity and Oliver will be in a relationship when Oliver gets back, this is MG after all, but there are more organic ways to keep them apart (e.g. Felicity not willing to let herself be entirely open because he could die on her too) than having Felicity suddenly decide to date Ray.  Dating Ray so soon would also taint Felicity's mourning for Oliver while he's gone, assuming it's going to be "epic".

 

Besides, Diggle already told Oliver that if he really wanted Felicity to be happy, he'd be in a relationship with her himself.

[apinknightmare]

Oh, there most definitely are more organic reasons to keep them apart, I'm just assuming (hopefully incorrectly) that Ray's gonna be a reason. And while I don't like it, I wouldn't judge Felicity for it. I absolutely agree with you that her getting into a relationship with him while Oliver's "dead" would taint her mourning and make me question her feelings for the guy - I wouldn't like that at all. I just think that once Oliver comes back all bets are off in that department. 

 

And true, Digg did say that. But then Oliver went off to PI to tell Felicity whatever he was going to tell her, saw her kissing Ray, and then did nothing. So whatever held him back then could still possibly be holding him back when he returns. But I hope not.

[statsgirl]

Diggle did say "tell her before it's too late" because she doesn't want to be alone.

 

It just seems strange that Oliver wouldn't fight for her when he seems to be willing to fight for everything else.  He even broke up Laurel and Tommy, and Tommy was his best friend.

[apinknightmare]

Diggle did say "tell her before it's too late" because she doesn't want to be alone.

 

It just seems strange that Oliver wouldn't fight for her when he seems to be willing to fight for everything else.  He even broke up Laurel and Tommy, and Tommy was his best friend.

 

Yeah, the whole "I can't be Oliver and The Arrow" storyline is/was ill-concieved. Because the only way he's not letting himself be Oliver Queen is by being with Felicity. They should've just had him tell her that his excitement over being with her distracts him and people are in danger when he's distracted, so he couldn't allow himself to be with her. But I guess that would've been much less dramatic, haha.

Edited January 11, 2015 by apinknightmare

[wonderwall]

I think the writers are just lazy to put them in a relationship because putting them in a relationship requires work to make them interesting and fun and fresh every episode. Instead they take the easy way out and find contrived ways of keeping them apart (which IMO is a lot easier). I mean there is a precedence of long term relationships on TV shows that have worked such as:

• Eric and Tami Taylor
• Danny and Mindy
• Jim and Pam
• Marshall and Lily
• Monica and Chandler
• Every couple on Modern Family
• Ben and Leslie
• Andy Dwyer and April
• Adam and Kristina Braverman
• Turk and Carla

 

And I could go on! I swear, the writers are just lazy because their attention is being diverted to 50 million sub plots. In the words of Ron Swanson, never half ass two things, whole ass one thing. And the writers seem to be half assing more than two things because there's just too much going on. 

[jay741982]

Diggle and Lyla are a happy stable couple it shouldn't be hard to put Olicity together and be relatively stable. I understand Olicity is the SUPER Couple basically but it shouldn't be hard there are people on this board who could do it I bet LOL

[BkWurm1]

Monica and Chandler is my go to example of a couple that were written really well once they were put together.  They never really suffered from the ship stall either.  Sure there were the occasional hiccup but it usually was all resolved in one episode and only served to endear them to the audience.   Then on the same show we also have the perfect example of how you can ruin a couple with the constant will they won't they break em up to make them up.  I remember when everyone watching was crazy about Ross and Rachel and then it just kept going back and forth and so many mixed messages were sent until it was self defense not to really care anymore.  The same writers handled (or mishandled as the case may be) both relationships so it's a puzzle how they could get one so right and the other so wrong. 

 

A more modern example is Mindy and Danny from the Mindy Project.  It's one thing to start a show with established couples like on Modern Family and a whole other balancing act to transition from flirty flirt to full on couple.  On the Mindy Project this year I think the show has been better since putting them together, funnier and sweeter.  I feel like sit coms are figuring out how to do couples but not sure if the dramas have been clued in that the Moonlighting Curse has been exposed for the fraud that it is. 

 

The only legitimate reason why Arrow might want to stay Olicity is that Oliver being in a relationship might make him too balanced.  I guess that is what this season has been, trying to give the viewers a true romance but at the same time keeping Oliver messed up in the head.  I just think there are better ways to point out Oliver's continued PTSD than "I can only love you from afar"

[Password]

I just think there are better ways to point out Oliver's continued PTSD than "I can only love you from afar"

If anything allowing Oliver to have a constant whilst dealing with his PTSD would've been far more interesting than " I can only love you from afar". Oliver has seen and felt so many deaths of loved ones that he hasn't been able to mourn. I had hoped Olicity could be that stable, mature relationship that he can hold onto whilst he faces his demons from the past.

I'm still hoping that after this tropey triangle they DO go back to having an uncomplicated Olicity relationship, and allow Oliver to deal with his other issues...I also hope they allow him to go to therapy. Just so that someone from the outside can help him understand and deal with his emotions and go-to reaction of pushing people away.

[BkWurm1]

I'm still hoping that after this tropey triangle they DO go back to having an uncomplicated Olicity relationship, and allow Oliver to deal with his other issues...I also hope they allow him to go to therapy. Just so that someone from the outside can help him understand and deal with his emotions and go-to reaction of pushing people away.

 

 

I  wonder if maybe that scene in the Carrie Cutter Cupid episode where Oliver briefly talks to her therapist, I wonder if we might just get something where he really does get some help.  Maybe it was just supposed to be a one off joke, but it didn't feel like a throwaway line.  If felt like it could go somewhere.

 

I don't want lots of time devoted to him in therapy but a little insight every now and then (probably with him in full Arrow regalia asking the occasional question from the shadows) could be interesting. 

Edited January 11, 2015 by BkWurm1

[wonderwall]

I would totally watch 10 minutes of Oliver talking to a therapist. That would be interesting as hell. 

[olicityfan25]

Yup more interesting than what they are doing now with fake heroes.

[tv echo]

Other examples of couples who started out as friends and became lovers and OTPs, but there was never any doubt that they loved each other (even when they were just friends):

• Mulder and Scully on The X-Files
• Kate and Rick on Castle
• Brennan and Booth on Bones
• John and Aeryn on Farscape
• Richard and Kahlan on Legend of the Seeker (and Sword of Truth books)

 

Incidentally, I hope that when the closing credits roll on the last episode of this season, I'm not going to be sitting there hoping for an X-Men: Days of Future Past-type reset of Season 3....

[looptab]

 

Incidentally, I hope that when the closing credits roll on the last episode of this season, I'm not going to be sitting there hoping for an X-Men: Days of Future Past-type reset of Season 3....

I feel like Season 3 is the Days of Future Past of Season 1 lol

(In terms of the resetting feeling- I think I needed to clarify that, as I loved DoFP, and Season 3..well..the jury is still out)

Edited January 11, 2015 by looptab

[tv echo]

Chiny11 asked in the Relationships thread: "Do you think tptb would do a Lauriver 2.0?"  Here's my response:

 

Yes.  Reading MG and other EP tweets/comments give me the impression that they're just going to do what they want, regardless of fan feedback, logic, story/character development, etc. - and that they're high on themselves right now due to the incredible success of The Flash.  I mean, just look at all of the other projects each of them is handling.

 

I fear that when Oliver returns, Felicity will reject him (for whatever reason) and although Oliver will still love her - therefore, not contradicting SA's statement that Oliver only loves one person this season, Oliver will end up fighting alongside Laurel - who could get training from Nyssa, while sparring with Oliver, Roy and Diggle in the Arrowcave.  Although SA also said that the Oliver/Laurel ship has sailed, he only has knowledge of this season.  I can easily see (and dread) the EPs evolving the Oliver and Laurel relationship during the course of Season 4 - they get to know each other's new post-crucible selves (not relying on memories of their pre-island selves), bond while fighting the big bads, blah blah blah.

 

Frankly, I'm barely hanging on this season.

Edited January 11, 2015 by tv echo

[Chiny11]

Chiny11 asked in the Relationships thread: "Do you think tptb would do a Lauriver 2.0?" Here's my response:

Yes. Reading MG and other EP tweets/comments give me the impression that they're just going to do what they want, regardless of fan feedback, logic, story/character development, etc. - and that they're high on themselves right now due to the incredible success of The Flash. I mean, just look at all of the other projects each of them is handling.

I fear that when Oliver returns, Felicity will reject him (for whatever reason) and although Oliver will still love her - therefore, not contradicting SA's statement that Oliver only loves one person this season, Oliver will end up fighting alongside Laurel - who could get training from Nyssa, while sparring with Oliver, Roy and Diggle in the Arrowcave. Although SA also said that the Oliver/Laurel ship has sailed, he only has knowledge of this season. I can easily see (and dread) the EPs evolving the Oliver and Laurel relationship during the course of Season 4 - they get to know each other's new post-crucible selves (not relying on memories of their pre-island selves), bond while fighting the big bads, blah blah blah.

Frankly, I'm barely hanging on this season.

Thank for the response.

Hmmmm...I suppose as writers they can do whatever they want on their show.

Let me be a little vain here and say I wish Felicity's other option was NOT Ray Palmer. I am sorry, but I am upset that is who she gets. I mean anyone but Ray. Ugh!

[statsgirl]

I really think an Oliver/Laurel relationship this season would be if not a show-killer, something that would turn a lot of people off.  It's bad enough that Sara died and Laurel's becoming the Black Canary; to have her take Oliver too from Felicity who is a fan-favorite (and even if she is dating Ray at the time, Laurel would still be taking Oliver from her) would rebound badly on Laurel's character.

 

Besides, what would it gain them in terms of storytelling other than Comics!  Felicity makes the show lighter, which it badly needs this season, she makes Oliver a more interesting character, and does the show really need more of Laurel on screen on top of her BC arc?

 

 

I would totally watch 10 minutes of Oliver talking to a therapist. That would be interesting as hell. 

I think it would be even harder to pull truth out of Oliver than it was for Worf to pull it out of Beckett on Castle.

[KirkB]

Although if the therapist in question was Harleen Quinzel it would make for a hell of an episode.

[BkWurm1]

I think it would be even harder to pull truth out of Oliver than it was for Worf to pull it out of Beckett on Castle.

 

That was Worf?  How on earth did I miss that? 

 

I really think an Oliver/Laurel relationship this season would be if not a show-killer, something that would turn a lot of people off.  It's bad enough that Sara died and Laurel's becoming the Black Canary; to have her take Oliver too from Felicity who is a fan-favorite (and even if she is dating Ray at the time, Laurel would still be taking Oliver from her) would rebound badly on Laurel's character.

 

Agreed.  There are a lot that viewers will put up with but I truly think this would be a major deal breaker.  They might already be a lock for season 4 but it would hurt their chances at any other spin offs if Arrow suddenly lost it's shine with the critics and viewers and I think that would do it. 

[tv echo]

At the end of each season so far, there's been a major character death (Tommy, Moira), so do you think there will be one at the end of season 3 as well, or do you think they just moved this season's major death up earlier with killing off Sara?  If so, then who would they still kill off?  

 

I think the costumed DC characters are safe (Sara was the Canary, not the Black Canary).  I'm now fearful for Thea.

[Ariah]

At the end of each season so far, there's been a major character death (Tommy, Moira), so do you think there will be one at the end of season 3 as well, or do you think they just moved this season's major death up earlier with killing off Sara?  If so, then who would they still kill off?  

 

I think the costumed DC characters are safe (Sara was the Canary, not the Black Canary).  I'm now fearful for Thea.

 

And I for Quentin.

He has an expiration date written all over him.

What is more, his death adds to Laurel's womanpain and crucible, furthers Oliver's mainpain and - let's not forget about it - opens a door to intriduce a younger, sexier police detective! (the last bit is sarcasm, but I'm emulating CW's executives right now).

 

Don't get me wrong, if I want any Lance to die, it's certainly not Quentin. But if i were to chose the deadman walking of the season, I'd pick him.

 

Also - Ra's, killed in the last episode with a sword to the chest and kicked off the cliff. By Oliver.

Plus - Malcolm, shot dead by Thea.

[Chiny11]

Someone referenced what they did in Smallville above. That is another reason why I am fearful that the writers will do Lauriver 2.0.

Also,I think it is a pity that the voice of online fans is being painted in a bad light - with the whole "it would very awful to allow fans influence writing"

IMO a story should grow organically. And the writers (ad they write) could draw inspiration from any source including fan feedback. Now I am not saying TV shows should always write what the fans want. I am just saying that if fan feedback inspires writers of a TV show to take a different route, that is not a bad thing. It is a organic thing. Eg Dawson's Creek.

They way some writers are quick to deny the influence of fan feedback is just pathetic IMO.

No one can really say what the Arrow writers will do. But because of how EBR's Felicity came on board and mesmerized critics and fans, journalists have ALWAYS asked (and will continue) to ask the "will you guys go with your original plan or fan feedback" questions. And this will always put the writers in a defensive position (they don't necessarily have to be they can boldly state that the story organically changed). The Arrow writers will always reject that fans influenced them.

Maybe if Felicity was a character that was a regular write from the pilot OR was planned as a recurring character, the question in the last paragraph won't be an issue. But she was planned for one episode, but EBR wowed everyone and they brought her on for more and now the rest is history.

So yeah, they way these writers have been so defensive about not being influenced by fans makes me think they are not going that route in season 4.

To be honest, if I don't get Olicity, they I want baby mama drama. Yep, I will take that over Lauriver 2.0.

Please forgive spelling and grammar errors.

Any thoughts?

[jay741982]

I worry for Quentin as well. Doesn't Laurels dad die in the comics? They could go that route it would suck cause I like Quentin more than Laurel a lot more than laurel

[tv echo]

Like I said before, my new motto for watching Arrow is...

 

Hope for the Best, but Prepare for the Worst!

[Carrie Ann]

I actually think we might have gotten our major character deaths out of the way in 3A, and if we have another in 3B, it might be a villain this time.

[KirkB]

Well, they've 'killed' Oliver but I don't think that really counts, and killing Sara at the beginning of the season kind of throws the balance off, but if they stick to form someone major is still going to die before it's over. Oliver has had his brush with death and is the star anyway so he's out of the running. Malcolm is probably safe because he's Barrowman. Thea is the only other Queen left so she'll more than likely stay around unless the EP's really want to mess with Oliver's head. Laurel is obviously safe since she has a lot of work to do. I think the most likely candidates are Felicity, Roy and Lyla. Felicity, BECAUSE she is so popular no one would expect it and it would be shocking. Roy, because I think Arsenal 'dies' in the comics and comes back, as they do. And Lyla could die both for Diggle (and Oliver's) pain and to restrict his time on the show by focusing him on his kid.

[Starfish35]

I think Quentin is probably the most likely candidate, especially considering how underused he's been so far this season. Maybe Malcolm, and/or Lyla. I'm not sure anyone is totally safe other than Oliver and Laurel though. Maseo probably still has a target on his back if Tatsu is still to become Katana, although I don't know if he counts as a "major" character.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Starfish35

[jay741982]

Here's something novel for them DONT kill anyone on the good guys

[statsgirl]

Just guessing, but I think they will have a big Malcolm arc and he will die at the end of the season, unless they're so in love with John Barrowman they want to keep him.  He's expensive and there's limited storytelling with him if they want to keep Slade and Ra's around.

 

I hope Quentin doesn't die because I like him and because they need someone with connections to the law and the police.  Laurel could have done it but she's going off book now.

[KirkB]

Quentin's almost too obvious, though I wouldn't put it past them, and I'm not convinced Malcolm will ever die. He may leave, but the EP's will probably want to have the option of calling on the Barrowman again in the future.

[BunsenBurner]

Personally I want Laurel and Ray to be end game. Ray is perfect for her. He's rich, committed to saving his city, and he's a little off kilter. They are so totally focused as well He's everything she needs. Besides that they look like they go together. I can't figure out why they haven't met yet.

Edited January 13, 2015 by BunsenBurner

[Starfish35]

You're probably joking and I'm sure it'll never happen but...it might not be a bad idea actually when I stopped to think about it. His comicbook girlfriend Jean Loring was an attorney, but since we've already seen her as Moira's attorney and she's quite a bit older, why not put Laurel in that spot? Too crazy? Too comic-book canon breaking?

[BunsenBurner]

I actually think it would tie everything up in a neat bow! It would all be canon, just not the right canon. Didn't BR say they weren't exactly following canon?

[Starfish35]

I think it's a fantastic idea. :) What would the ship name be? Palmance? Lauray? AtomicCanary? :)

Since I mentioned Jean Loring, MG did say that they "will be acknowledging the Jean Loring that appeared in the beginning of Season 2 as Moira’s attorney, in the context of Ray Palmer, just not as boyfriend and girlfriend". I wonder how they're going to do that? Could she be Anna's mother perhaps? Or was there something I missed that's already aired?

Edited January 13, 2015 by Starfish35

[BunsenBurner]

Love AtomicCanary or Raurel (it makes me laugh).

[Luckylyn]

Now I want to start a band, so I can name it AtomicCanary.

[statsgirl]

I'm not Ray Palmer's biggest fan but I wouldn't wish him on Laurel.  She's pretty much the most selfish person on Arrow, including Moira and Malcolm and Ray, while creepy at times, is kind and generous. Who else would give Felicity that much time off when she's just starting her job?

 

Selfish people need to marry other selfish people; it keeps them in check.  With a generous person, they just ride rough shod over them and end up making both parties miserable, one because he's always trying to please a person who can never be completely pleased, and the other because her affection eventually turns to contempt.  I've seen it happen too often.

 

==========================

I was thinking of what happens when Oliver returns and specifically what they're going to do to stall Oliver and Felicity getting together.

 

I like the idea of Felicity, after she's showed how happy she is to have him back (as opposed to throwing glasses of wine), to be the one to say she can't do it because losing him hurt too much.

 

It has a number of nice parallels between them -- Oliver was hurt physically in the duel; Felicity was hurt emotionally.  Oliver spent the first part of the season thinking he can't have a relationship with Felicity because of what he does, Felicity now thinking she can't have a relationship with him because what he does means she could lose him again.

 

It gives Oliver the chance to truly think about whether he should push for a relationship or will  he hurt her too much if he does and things go bad.  Then Diggle or some event can convince him that yes, they need to be together and he can set about winning her.

 

It also means that Oliver can work to get to have a relationship with Felicity without the ickiness of her dating Ray at the same time.

[SonofaBiscuit]

I like the idea of Felicity, after she's showed how happy she is to have him back (as opposed to throwing glasses of wine), to be the one to say she can't do it because losing him hurt too much.

 

I'm hoping for a nice (on the lips) kiss during their reunion before things proceed to fall apart.  I'm wondering how this is going to go down because Oliver thinks that Felicity is involved with Ray.  Will he bring that up and she'll set him straight, or is he basically going to say fuck it and go for it even though he thinks Felicity is with Ray?  Hmmm.

 

It gives Oliver the chance to truly think about whether he should push for a relationship or will  he hurt her too much if he does and things go bad.  Then Diggle or some event can convince him that yes, they need to be together and he can set about winning her.

 

 

Maybe the event will be the Diggle/Lyla wedding.

[Chaser]

I feel like the first part of the season was really showing Oliver's point of view and we really saw some growth from him. I would like the next part of the season to show Felicity's side.

[BkWurm1]

Love AtomicCanary or Raurel (it makes me laugh).

 

Ha!  I love Raurel.  It’s reminds me of the sound that Scooby Doo makes.

I like the idea of Felicity, after she's showed how happy she is to have him back (as opposed to throwing glasses of wine), to be the one to say she can't do it because losing him hurt too much.

It has a number of nice parallels between them -- Oliver was hurt physically in the duel; Felicity was hurt emotionally.  Oliver spent the first part of the season thinking he can't have a relationship with Felicity because of what he does, Felicity now thinking she can't have a relationship with him because what he does means she could lose him again.

 

 

Yeah, I really hope we get the super happy reunion before they hit us with the other shoe, but I’m not a fan of the woman being afraid to be in a relationship because the guy is in a dangerous line of work idea.  It never makes the woman look good as real an issue as it may be. 

 

That's why I'm on board for her to start thinking that maybe she was part of the reason why Oliver lost.  He said she makes him lose focus and if she starts wondering if she hadn't been an issue, would he have prevailed, well, the guilt building up while she thought he was dead and the relief that he was alive could realistically make her think the only way she can keep him alive is by giving him up.  Then they can be equally messed up and miserable without the audience hating either of them. 

 

Also, please no Ray romance.    

Edited January 14, 2015 by BkWurm1

[statsgirl]

But if she makes the decision that she can't be with him to keep him alive while he's saying he wants to be with her, isn't that taking away his autonomy?  I'm not any happier about that than I was about Oliver taking away Thea's when he decided to fight Ra's and not tell her about the video.

[BkWurm1]

But if she makes the decision that she can't be with him to keep him alive while he's saying he wants to be with her, isn't that taking away his autonomy?  I'm not any happier about that than I was about Oliver taking away Thea's when he decided to fight Ra's and not tell her about the video.

People make irrational decisions.  It isn't really about him being willing to risk it, it would be about her basically having bargained with the universe.  What would she give up for Oliver to be alive?  Rational or not, wouldn't she spend time wondering if he'd been right, even if it was only at her darkest moments? 

 

He comes back and she IS afraid of losing him again but that's not something she can control, but rejecting him while thinking it will keep him safer gives her the illusion that she can somehow control the uncontrollable and because she does love him so much, she's willing to go to extremes...at least until she comes to her senses and realizes she's being ridiculous.

 

Before, she was willing to risk the pain.  What they do is a risk to any one of them and because what they do is important, she accepts that risk for herself.  Her life, her choice.  And she accepts the same from her partners.  She didn't shy away from the risk of death before.  She could handle it as long as they lived when they could, using the now rather than just waiting around and dreading the tomorrow and I don't want that to change about Felicity. 

 

In the end, what I'm saying -she rejects him to protect him - isn't any different than her rejecting him because losing him hurt too much, they come from the same root ,but I really want that extra layer of self deception because I believe that if she was forced to look at what she was doing - pushing him away out of fear - she would call herself a hypocrite and a fool...which is what I'm hoping for after some time passes.  

 

I think Felicity is terrified of losing the people most important to her but I think instead of shutting people out, she instead choses carefully and then is willing to risk everything.  I think she would be absolutely aware of being afraid of losing Oliver again and going through that pain, but in my head, Felicity would be more afraid of never having him in her life in the first place and only by, in a sense, tricking herself, would she allow her self to bow before her fear. 

 

Felicity is brave not because she's not afraid, but because she doesn't let her fear stop her.  That's why I don't want her rejecting Oliver to just be because it hurts too much. 

Edited January 14, 2015 by BkWurm1