Hopes and Fears: How Will We Survive This Island? (Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers)

[calliope1975]

If Oliver were to see Felicity in the flashbacks, I would find it absolutely ridiculous.

 

I would also eat it up with a spoon and my heart would be full of butterflies.

 

I am a contradiction. 

[DrSpaceman10]

If Oliver were to see Felicity in the flashbacks, I would find it absolutely ridiculous.

 

What's more ridiculous, Oliver seeing Felicity in the flashbacks or a brainwashing plant that can make you kill someone?

[wonderwall]

I really hope that Oliver doesn't see Felicity during the flashbacks. I, too, would find that ridiculous. Less ridiculous would probably be Oliver learning about her? Like how she's an A+ hacker or something which is why he went to her instead of anyone else in the office for some help with his laptop that was 'ruined by a latte'. IDK. 

[apinknightmare]

What's more ridiculous, Oliver seeing Felicity in the flashbacks or a brainwashing plant that can make you kill someone?

 

The brainwashing plant. 

 

He could conceivably see her since in the timeline she'd probably be starting her job at QC (right?), and he'd probably drive by the office while he was in SC. If they're going to have him "see" her, I'd prefer it to be her just milling around in the background, walking into the building or something with her not even registering on his radar. But, I'd rather him not see her at all than have him see her and smile or feel some kind of connection. Or worse, bump into her or something (although I read a fic about that once and I liked it, haha).

Edited December 17, 2014 by apinknightmare

[statsgirl]

I'm putting this under spoiler quotes because while it's a reply to the posts above, 

 I think Oliver being in Starling City in flashbacks is a spoiler.

 

I really love the idea that Oliver saw Felicity and there's this instant connection even though it doesn't mean anything to him at that point. That's why I hope they don't have Oliver see Felicity in a flashback, because it would weaken the connection he felt with her and the red pen.

Edited December 17, 2014 by statsgirl

[looptab]

We know he felt that he had to make it right with Laurel.  Keeping her picture right in front of him after her got off the island could just be a constant reminder to himself that he still had to figure out a way to make it right.   I kind of see that as the reason why he tried to get back together with her, he doesn't know any other way to make it right with Laurel.  Getting back together with her, reset the relationship.  He's last interactions with her stop being 'cheated on her with her sister'.  

 Agreed. I'd like to see it pan out this way.

 

I don't know if it's been posted on here, but one of the producers said on twitter that they had a scene where Oliver gives her the picture back (in 2x21) because he thinks he's going to die, but they cut that scene.

Was this recently?

[DrSpaceman10]

Was this recently?

 

I can't find it now, but I think it was in the last couple of months. If I remember correctly it was on Marc Guggenheim's twitter.

Edited December 18, 2014 by drspaceman10

[tv echo]

We've been speculating that Oliver will reconcile his two identities and get together with Felicity by the end of this season.  While part of me hopes that these two will finally get together, another part of me is dreading it.  As soon as Oliver and Felicity get together, you know that the EPs won't let them just be happy as a couple.  Instead, they will immediately start thinking of ways to create conflict in their relationship. 

 

One easy source of conflict would be using the classic but tired love triangle trope.  If Oliver returns to Starling City and finds out what Laurel's been doing, he will probably feel compelled to train her because he can't stop her from doing what she wants.  Training and fighting together will bring Oliver and Laurel closer, and Laurel will remind Oliver of happier times when his parents and Tommy were alive and he had no responsibilities.  Laurel is the kind of person who goes after what she wants, plus she's manipulative, so she could easily cause problems.  If the EPs really can't resist the temptation to test Oliver and Laurel again, they could retcon the flashbacks (and use Laurel's picture) to build up that past relationship.  

 

Another possible source of conflict could arise from the fact that Felicity would now be keeping Ray's secret from Oliver.  In fact, she's holding the Arrow secret from Ray and the ATOM secret from Oliver.  Her greater loyalty would be to Oliver, but if the two conflict, she would have to betray Ray's secret - which I doubt she could do lightly. 

 

Couples usually don't stay together on CW shows (with rare exceptions like Nikita) because apparently their writers and producers don't know how to create drama without breaking couples up.  Also, I think shows like instigating shipper wars because they rile up fans and lead to increased online discussion.  For that reason, a part of me hopes the Arrow EPs drag out the 'will they-won't they' relationship between Oliver and Felicity for a long time.

Edited December 18, 2014 by tv echo

[Lokiberry]

I posted this on the Flash forum, but it's something that might be worth thinging about over here:

 

As I understand it, the events in Flashpoint rebooted everything into the New 52. What if they do the same thing on the show, and it effects both Flash and Arrow, and maybe Supergirl, since they're all in the same universe. Flash doesn't need it, but Arrow could use it to correct all the stupid mistakes and inconsistencies that are bogging the show down, particularly this season. It could also explain how there is a Supergirl when there has never been any mention of a Superman.

 

Season 1 could end with Barry going back in time to confront Reverse Flash the day his mother is murdered, and on Arrow, Felicity gets a phone call from Caitlyn telling her something big is happening, Both shows end with their worlds slightly different then they were before.

[ohjoy]

We've been speculating that Oliver will reconcile his two identities and get together with Felicity by the end of this season.  While part of me hopes that these two will finally get together, another part of me is dreading it.  As soon as Oliver and Felicity get together, you know that the EPs won't let them just be happy as a couple.  Instead, they will immediately start thinking of ways to create conflict in their relationship. 

[snip]

Couples usually don't stay together on CW shows (with rare exceptions like Nikita) because apparently their writers and producers don't know how to create drama without breaking couples up.  Also, I think shows like instigating shipper wars because they rile up fans and lead to increased online discussion.  For that reason, a part of me hopes the Arrow EPs drag out the 'will they-won't they' relationship between Oliver and Felicity for a long time.

I'M TOO OLD FOR THIS.

 

Honestly, if I could just get 4-6 episodes of pure, unadulterated, "we're in love and we don't care who knows it" Olicity, I would be fine. I'm so done with the contrived conflict in any form though. "Will they/won't they" is just another unnecessary conflict in my books. I don't even know if I"ll last the season, much less any time beyond that if they don't get it together. (And by "they", of course I mean the showrunners.)

[SmallScreenDiva]

I would rather they get together and STAY together. Doesn't mean there won't be conflict in their relationship. Balancing work/life is going to be hell with their vigilante duties, Felicity's work at Palmer Tech. I mean, they barely have time for their normal lives. Well, Felicity, anyway. Oliver just seems to be working out all the time now that he doesn't have to show up at the office. When does Felicity sleep?!?! ... but that might not be dramatic enough for the EPs.

[Ariah]

But CW did manage to write an adult relationship in Nikita. At least that's how i remember Michael and Nikita - sorry, spoilers:

 

once they got together, they were together. Yes, they had their differences and obstacles, but no love triangles in the present (past did come up, but it was dealt with quickly).

 

That relationship (and the Flash episode) proves to me that CW is capable of showing us a mature relationship that does not need to be boring. And doesn't involve two people being glued by the hip together to show they are a couple. These are not teenagers, they do not need to hold hands in eachother's backpockets to show they're in loooove ;)

[ohjoy]

My concern is less about the CW network in general and more about the particular showrunner(s) who are[n't] pulling the strings on this relationship. It won't matter how mature and stable the CW can be if the people in charge of Arrow don't actually want to see that happen -- if they are so sown up in the stories that come out of the comics that they cannot fathom emotional conflict beyond what is seen in those comics (i.e. triangles, secrets, and death).

[NumberCruncher]

My concern is less about the CW network in general and more about the particular showrunner(s) who are[n't] pulling the strings on this relationship. It won't matter how mature and stable the CW can be if the people in charge of Arrow don't actually want to see that happen -- if they are so sown up in the stories that come out of the comics that they cannot fathom emotional conflict beyond what is seen in those comics (i.e. triangles, secrets, and death).

^This.

Theoretically this show isn't mainly about romance--it's only one (IMO) minor element. That being the case, there should be no reason why they have to follow the typical CW formula and create contrived will-they-or-won't-they drama. There's more than enough conflict and action going on with it being based on a comic book superhero that the impact of all that should naturally flow into other aspects of the show, i.e. relationships. The forced love triangle for the sake of keeping the main couple apart is entirely unnecessary.

[SmallScreenDiva]

My hope — and it's probably a futile one — is that the EPs won't think it necessary to actually put Ray and Felicity in a romantic relationship. I can see them getting closer; both of them have lost the people they love. They'll probably bond over that. But they don't have to be together-together to stall Olicity. Oliver already thinks there's some sort of relationship there after seeing the kiss. So let that misunderstanding, coupled with both Oliver's and Felicity's personal relationship demons, be enough to keep them apart.

 

Unfortunately, Andrew Kreisberg repeated that "legitimate choice for Felicity" spiel again at the Flarrow screening so, yeah, bracing myself too for Ray and Felicity.

[Password]

Legitimate choice. That's so strange to my ears because right now Ray isn't a legitimate choice, he's the alternative. Until Oliver actually throws his hat into the proverbial pot, there's no choice to be made. Let's not forget if Oliver didnt freak out in The Climb Felicity would be in a relationship with him...Ray who? Unless they mean Felicity has the choice to wait around in case Oliver changes his mind...which I assume not. Felicity having a choice doesn't necessarily mean getting into a relationship with Ray. Like she has to sample the goods (oh my eyes) before she can choose Oliver. It seems more like a choice of life than love. She's basically got everything with Ray: great job that she's amazing at, good looking (albeit questionable) boyfriend opportunity AND the ability to use her skills to be a hero and help Ray become a hero. Sleeping with Ray is unnecessary because she hasn't slept with Oliver.

...but of course the writers don't see it this way.

[statsgirl]

Unfortunately, Andrew Kreisberg repeated that "legitimate choice for Felicity" spiel again at the Flarrow screening so, yeah, bracing myself too for Ray and Felicity.

I was hoping that ended in the Cupid episode now they would only be working on the ATOM costume.  sigh.

 

Add that to MG's statement  that he thinks the best romances are star-crossed and they get together, break up , get together again... and it's not the CW we  have to worry about, it's Arrow's EPs.

[Trini]

So... Merlyn should be getting killed off for real this season, right? I'm sure TPTB would love to have Barrowman forever but it seems the logical solution; because prison is probably not going to work in this case.

[KirkB]

Slade is going to come back, right? And I'd be surprised if he was going to let Boomerang rot, since letting him out too would mess with Barry, which in turn would mess with Oliver. So if the secret island isn't viable anymore I'd say, yeah, they're going to have to kill Malcolm to make sure they stop him. And REALLY kill him this time, Oliver.

[BkWurm1]

I don't see Oliver killing Malcolm.  I could possibly see Thea killing Malcolm to save Oliver though. 

[Happy Harpy]

Aside from Team Arrow back front and center, no more clichés will they-won't they, NO metahumans or superpowers on this show and no superheroes swarming town, here's a couple of things that I hope the writers will  do because I think it'll make the show enjoyable again for me.

I hope that instead of bringing new players ("shiny new toys", as it was so justly put here) they'd use the great ones they already have. There is so much unexploited potential imo.

 

-I want Teen Arrow back. I loved it, and I think it's one of the last time that Arrow surprised me in a very good way, by making Sin/Thea/Roy a friendship and not a love triangle. I want them to be there for Thea through her crucible -her brainwash and what she did then- like Felicity and Diggle were there for Oliver at the end of S2. I think that Roy works well with Team Arrow but as I said in another thread, I don't want him as the Robin to Oliver's Batman. I'd love for him to have his own Team and oh, the show already provided it.

And since Sin is coming back, and she's the only Black Canary 2.0 I'd ever accept, I want Laurel to realize she isn't made to be the BC and give Sin the jacket instead. It would be imo a perfect twist on the comic: Speedy/Arsenal in a "trio" with the new BC, to replace the GA/BC duo which imo doesn't work on Arrow.

They could operate in parallel with Team Arrow, have different links with the other players than Team Arrow have, especially with Merlyn, Nyssa (through the Sin/Sara connection)...there would be so many storyline possibilities imo.

 

-One of my favorite scenes this season is the Oliver/Lyla one in the crossover. I saw so much potential in it for Team Arrow, Oliver/Felicity, and Diggle/Lyla. I could see, depending on the issue at hand, Oliver siding with Lyla, or with Diggle, or with Felicity "against" the two others. It would create real conflicts  without burning down the house or disintegrating Team Arrow, and without romantic plot tumors and other contrived storylines. They would still respect and love each other but disagree or even find themselves on different sides all for very valid/coherent reasons. With Waller, ARGUS and the Suicide Squad in the background. Team Arrow + Lyla is imo another direction the show should try to go, too.

 

-Bring Walter back. He's imo the most good and decent character, and I want him as the CEO of Queen Consolidated again. And Thea needs him. Since I can't have Moira foiling Malcolm with her deviousness (and really, bringing back a character from death to kill him again? Arrow would do that more than any self-respecting soap opera, then) I want Walter to oppose him and foil him with his goodness .

 

-Give Quentin more to do. And more than a hope, I have a wish. First, I want Quentin to learn the truth about Sara, try to deal with and hang on (proving the liars wrong). And then, I want Donna Smoak to come back and I want her to sweep him off his feet, marry him and make him Felicity's stepdad. I know that I joked when I mentioned it at the beginning of the season, but now I'm serious and I don't care whether it sounds like a crack pairing. She'd be exactly what Quentin would need: a woman fun and zany on the outside, but strong and steady in the inside. All that obviously he didn't have so far (Dinah, I loved you the first time around, but now you're dead to me). And imo, the show needs recurring characters like Donna Smoak, who can bring the light and the comedy while having depth.

Edited December 19, 2014 by Happy Harpy

[BkWurm1]

-Give Quentin more to do. And more than a hope, I have a wish. First, I want Quentin to learn the truth about Sara, try to deal with and hang on (proving the liars wrong). And then, I want Donna Smoak to come back and I want her to sweep him off his feet, marry him and make him Felicity's stepdad. I know that I joked when I mentioned it at the beginning of the season, but now I'm serious and I don't care whether it sounds like a crack pairing. She'd be exactly what Quentin would need: a woman fun and zany on the outside, but strong and steady in the inside. All that obviously he didn't have so far (Dinah, I loved you the first time around, but now you're dead to me). And imo, the show needs recurring characters like Donna Smoak, who can bring the light and the comedy while having depth.

 

I love this on so many levels.  No one can replace Sara for Quentin, but I would seriously love if he was granted another courageous blond daughter in his life and give someone for Felicity to lean on too. 

[tv echo]

I love the idea of Quentin with Donna Smoak - opposites attract, you know?  That would be great.  From your lips to the EPs' ears... 

[NumberCruncher]

I love the idea of Quentin with Donna Smoak - opposites attract, you know? That would be great. From your lips to the EPs' ears...

And Paul Blackthorne supports it too. It has amazing possibilities...Quentin is a bit of a cynical, sarcastic smartass while Donna is more of the sunny, but sassy take-no-shit-from-anyone woman. It also helps that they're both easy on the eyes so the hotness potential is off the charts.

At this point I'm game for anything that gives PB more to do besides making Quentin the fool in Laurel's big secret.

[KirkB]

How DO you have actors like Paul Blackthorne and John Barrowman in your cast and do so little with them?

[tv echo]

Unfortunately, with the way this season is going, I wouldn't be surprised if the EPs end up killing off Quentin to further Laurel's journey (and parallel Oliver's journey).  That would make me even more unhappy.

Edited December 19, 2014 by tv echo

[statsgirl]

I'm curious to see whether they will do Quentin/Donna.  I think Charlotte Ross said about a month ago that she's going to be back on the show.

When the episode aired, I tweeted that I wanted Donna back and dating Quentin.  The tweet was favorited by one of the writers so they know the idea is out there in the audience as well as PB's campaign.

 

I don't see Oliver killing Malcolm.  I could possibly see Thea killing Malcolm to save Oliver though. 

That would be an amazing story.  Unfortunately, it doesn't fit the show's thinking, which is that men have agency and women are expendable..

[Happy Harpy]

 

Unfortunately, with the way this season is going, I wouldn't be surprised if the EPs end up killing off Quentin to further Laurel's journey (and parallel Oliver's journey).

You know, when you have an issue you have a good solution and a bad solution. And since Sara's assassination, I'm beginning to believe that TPTB go for none but the worst solution. Seriously, the show needs to stop with death as a plot device.

 

I think Charlotte Ross said about a month ago that she's going to be back on the show.

 

And Paul Blackthorne supports it too.

Best news I've heard about Arrow since...the beginning of the season? I think it's the first thing I look forward to for 3-B.

Quentin deserves more than heartbreak and wet blankets. P.Blackthorne and C.Ross are so ridiculously good looking and such great actors. I truly hope they can at least interact. Plus, it would bring back the Quentin/Felicity friendship and all those good memories of S1 finale and S2-A.

[Starfish35]

That might actually be a Laurel/Felicity moment I could enjoy. Both of them watching horrorstruck as their parents flirted shamelessly with each other.

[quarks]

From the Sara thread:

 

I guess my fears are still correct because right now it looks like they are moving toward an Arrow/Canary show, except with a different Canary.

 

 

Well, maybe?

 

Sure, I'm not thrilled that the show went from a pretty cool comic book story of a woman joining, then breaking free, then rejoining a group of assassins, to what's happening with Laurel this season.  Just so we're clear. But going back and looking at what's actually happened on the show so far in these past nine episodes: Laurel has been featured in only three of the nine episodes so far (Sara, The Magician, and Guilty.)  She was barely in a fourth (The Brave and The Bold, under two minutes of screentime) and not at all in a fifth, and did not appear on the Flash during the crossover event.  In the remaining episodes (The Calm, Corto Maltese, The Secret Origin of Felicity Smoak and the Climb) she's averaged about four to six minutes of screentime in a 40 minute episode. And in three of those episodes (Corto Maltese, Felicity Smoak, the Climb) she and Oliver never interacted on screen at all. At this point, Oliver has more than three times the amount of screentime that Laurel has had, even with two episodes where he doesn't appear in the flashbacks (Corto Maltese, Felicity Smoak).  This isn't suggesting an Arrow and Canary show.

Forgetting screentime for a moment, the show has had Oliver trained by Yao Fei, Shado, Slade and now ARGUS, Sara trained by the League of Assassins and Laurel trained by....a retired boxer.   Roy, not Laurel, has stepped into Sara's place as Oliver's fighting partner.  Laurel so far has gotten herself beaten up (sigh) and kidnapped again (sigh); her sole defense/attack move was crashing her car.  And who actually went after the bad guys in that episode? Not Laurel: Oliver, Roy and Diggle. If this show is actually trying to turn Laurel into Oliver's equal and fighting partner, it's choosing a very, very odd way to do this.

 

Now, yes, we've been told that

the next four episodes will have a nice little Laurel arc which will include Laurel putting on the costume.  But we've also been told that the next four episodes are not Laurel centric at all and in fact feature Roy and Team Arrow.  The Canadagraph pictures show Laurel interacting with Tommy, not Oliver. We've also been told that she's not just going to be able to step into the fishnets; that her road is going to be brutal and painful.  None of that suggests an upcoming Arrow/Canary show, or that they will be fighting crime together. 

 

On a metalevel, this is now three seasons where the ratings are not in KC/Laurel's favor, though "The Brave and the Bold" is a pretty obvious outlier, as is "The Magician" because of baseball.  Looking at the other seven episodes, however, "Sara" and "Guilty," which heavily featured Laurel, had the lowest ratings of the season.  Guilty was also one of the worst reviewed episodes of the season.  The one thing in her favor is that the one episode that didn't feature her, "Draw Back Your Bow," also got the lowest ratings of the season so far from IMDB, an 8.4 rating.  But the other IMDB ratings aren't encouraging for Laurel: The Calm, 9.1; Sara, 8.8; Corto Maltese, 8.5; The Magician, 8.8; Secret Origin of Felicity Smoak 8.8; Guilty 8.6; Brave and the Bold 9.5; The Climb, 9.8.) I think the ratings for the last two episodes have nothing to do with Laurel (or, for that matter, Felicity) and have everything to do with Flash/Ra's Al Ghul, but still, the most popular episode so far this season, based on those ratings, was an episode where Oliver and Laurel never interacted.

 

(Sidenote: this is the first time I've checked those ratings, and I have to say, Felicity + Ray go out to dinner = low ratings; Ray shows Felicity cool robot suits = high ratings. I feel so vindicated. Thanks, IMDB!)

 

On a further metalevel, after last season's attempts at soft pilots for Young Justice, Suicide Squad and Birds of Prey, the only thing that got greenlit was the Suicide Squad movie.  For the Birds of Prey/their actresses? Crickets. One got killed off, another has been kept completely incompetent, a third so far hasn't been invited back (though I expect that will happen eventually) even though that episode actually got better ratings than the Young Justice and Suicide Squad soft pilots. Now, it's very possible that this is just the usual Hollywood sexism at work. Or it's possible that WB is looking at more data than what we have (specifics on Twitter, download numbers, that sort of thing) and making decisions based on that. But neither theory suggests an equal role for Laurel Canary on this show.

 

Which is to say, I have a number of fears about the second half of the season. I think we're going to get a Ray/Felicity relationship,

probably after Oliver's return,

which doesn't thrill me.  I think that Colton Haynes is going to be asked to carry more of the show, at least for the next few episodes, than he probably should, based on what we've seen so far.  (I like Roy, but in my opinion he's not quite capable of carrying an episode yet.)  I'm pretty sure we're not going to see as much of Diggle as I want, mostly because I do seem to say that every single episode.  I'm worried that we'll have several more episodes go by before Thea gets told that she killed Sara, which is going to aggravate me, or anyone telling Quentin what happened to Sara, which ditto. Speaking of Quentin, I'm very concerned about his upcoming existence: the more the show seems to turn from villains of the week and issues contained to Starling City, the less it seems to need him, and I am afraid that the show is going to kill him off, which will suck.  And I'm not looking forward to whatever happens to Laurel in the rest of the season, mostly because, to put it mildly, the first nine episodes have not encouraged me.

 

But I have very little fear that this is going to turn into the Arrow and Canary show.  A few episodes, sure, and probably more than I want, but not more than that. Otherwise, I think they would have teamed up, or at least met, in the fall finale.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Thanks, quarks, for easing my mind a bit! (Would you believe I was actually hoping that you'd do a post like this?) Part of that post was me kinda going with one of the worst-case scenarios, brace-for-maximum impact in my head. With this show, it almost helps to think of bad things so I'm not too crushed later ;)

[Morrigan2575]

quarks - I personally can't imagine them putting Ray/Felicity together in the 10 weeks or do that Oliver will be dead. I also can't imagine the show having Felicity turn to Ray after Oliver comes back from the dead. I fear that if they do either it will reflect very badly on Felicity. However, I've learned not to bet against you as you've been fairly right about most things this season. Edited December 21, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[statsgirl]

I will be very upset if they kill Quentin off.  He and Diggle are the Voice of Reason now that Moira is dead and Walter is gone,  If Arrow wants to keep  their cross-section of viewers, they have to appeal to more than the CW teen angst.

 

I don't see how they can sell a Ray/Felicity relationship after Oliver's dying thought was of kissing her; I'll have the psych tests ready for them if they attempt to try.

[ohjoy]

You might want to have straight-jackets and/or protective custody available for them as well in that case. ;-)

[Happy Harpy]

 

But I have very little fear that this is going to turn into the Arrow and Canary show.  A few episodes, sure, and probably more than I want, but not more than that.

I think that the writers want the GA/BC show, very much, and that's why Laurel is still here. But Laurel being a polarizing character, they're aware they can't. I'm afraid they're playing a "long con" with her and establish her as the BC in parallel to Oliver, in order to (re)build her popularity first; while slowly phasing out Team Arrow (Diggle with his family, Felicity at QC with 50 Shades).

 

I fear that if they do either it will reflect very badly on Felicity.

I do think that Ray reflects badly on Felicity, and it will be worse if they get into a romantic relationship but thankfully, this is the third season. The audience can tell whether a character is written OOC and imo, it has already been the case in the whole Ray/Felicity thing. Taking the following to the relationships thread.

Edited December 21, 2014 by Happy Harpy

[Starfish35]

I am hesitant to make any predictions regarding Laurel at this point, until we see what actually happens over the next four episodes. Also, I have a tendency to be very wrong about what these writers will do. See: Thea, and also Sara. :(

But.

That being said, I just, even now, have a hard time believing that Laurel will continue to be kept in her own little storyline indefinitely. I can't really make any sense of what they've done with her so far this season, but why would they continue to keep a character that they can't successfully integrate into the overall story after three seasons? There is a very large part of me that continues to think that either she will become a full-fledged member of the team by the end of the season, or she will be written out. They will have spent three seasons trying to make her work. I just can't imagine them continuing to keep her in this odd state of limbo forever, especially with a character that is supposedly their main female character. I'm not saying that it will become the Arrow/Canary show, but I also don't think they can continue to justify her being on the show if she's not on the team after becoming BC.

[statsgirl]

I think they will try to make her a fully-fledged part of Team Arrow, but unless they change her personality, it won't work.  The Laurel who we've known for 2 1/2 seasons isn't going to accept taking third or fourth place on the team (assuming she can dominate Roy or Felicity and take their place), but I don't think the team can function with such neophyte leader, and I think the majority of the audience will have trouble with it too. Should Diggle take orders from Laurel?  He accepted them from Sara but Sara was not only an experienced and skilled fighter in her own right, she made friends with Diggle right away by meeting him on common ground.  Season 3, and Laurel is still giving him and Felicity orders..  And it's going to be all kinds of awkward with both Laurel "I know you like I know my own name" and Felicity in interactions with Oliver.

 

Laurel Canary can help out while Oliver is gone but when he gets back, I think the show would work best if Laurel is off working her own cases.  

[NumberCruncher]

This discussion makes me realize just how painfully awkward it would be to have Laurel in the Arrow lair when Oliver and Felicity get their flirt on. It's fine in front of Digg and Roy, but Laurel? Yikes.

[DrSpaceman10]

This discussion makes me realize just how painfully awkward it would be to have Laurel in the Arrow lair when Oliver and Felicity get their flirt on. It's fine in front of Digg and Roy, but Laurel? Yikes.

 

Maybe this is why she might leave when Oliver comes back. I really can't imagine her there very often (or at all) when Oliver comes back.

 

On a semi-related note, does anyone feel like KC sometimes plays her scenes with Oliver as though she has romantic feelings for him? I feel like sometimes she's making heart-eyes at him and SA isn't making them back and it makes their scenes really awkward for me to watch (and also why I don't want Felicity/Oliver to have any scenes with her).

[Starfish35]

Laurel Canary can help out while Oliver is gone but when he gets back, I think the show would work best if Laurel is off working her own cases.

I don't disagree that having her in the Arrowcave will be awkward. But it's also awkward every time the show cuts away from the main story to give her her own time and storyline separate from everyone else. Every time the show does this, it just highlights how completely non-essential to the show she is. Up until now, the writers could excuse it by saying she hadn't become her comic book alter-ego yet, but once she becomes BC, that excuse no longer works. My point is....if she's not going to be on the team, she needs to be gone. Period. There is literally no point whatsoever in keeping her if she isn't going to be part of the team - she's just taking up time that could be given to main storylines. And I just can't believe they would continue to do that indefinitely.

Edited December 21, 2014 by Starfish35

[calliope1975]

I think they will try to make her a fully-fledged part of Team Arrow, but unless they change her personality, it won't work. 

 

This is what I found so weird. Why not soften Laurel's personality when she was in the Arrowcave? Why not have her be unsure of her role? My fear is not only will they continue to shoehorn her into Team Arrow, but they'll also have her continue to be demanding and rude and expect me to be happy to watch. 

[tv echo]

I will be very upset if they kill Quentin off.  He and Diggle are the Voice of Reason now that Moira is dead and Walter is gone,  If Arrow wants to keep  their cross-section of viewers, they have to appeal to more than the CW teen angst.

Agree.  I also really want Quentin to find some happiness.  He thought he lost his beloved daughter Sara years ago, got divorced, and became an alcoholic.  Now when he's overcome his alcoholism, has a cordial relationship with his ex-wife, and thinks Sara is alive, we know she's really dead.  When he finds out, he'll be devastated - I really believed their loving father & daughter relationship.  All he'll be left with is one remaining daughter, Laurel, who seems to disrespect him and talk down to him, and an ex-wife, Dinah, who we've seen go all Lady Macbeth with her crazy face and telling her own child to find her other child's killer, make him pay and "make him suffer".  Actually, given all that Quentin has lost and suffered, why can't he put on a mask and become a superhero too?  He's had as much of an "island" as Laurel - and he's got the cop training which makes him more qualified.  To paraphrase Oprah, "you get a mask and you get a mask and you get a mask - you all get a mask!"

 

It will be very difficult for Laurel to become a part of Team Arrow if she's not willing to listen to Oliver.  He's the team leader, but she's shown no willingness so far to respect his leadership or follow his orders.  Maybe to the EPs, that's their way of showing that she's a "strong" woman who stands up for herself. Or maybe she still regards him and treats him like pre-island Ollie (though she seems to have a thing for the Arrow).  But how can you (Oliver) trust someone to be a part of your team if you can't trust that they'll obey you?

Edited December 21, 2014 by tv echo

[Enero]

Hopes (some are more like wishes)

Wish they would bring back Walter in some capacity. I always enjoyed his interactions with Thea and Oliver. I think he was the only parent that never lied to either. He was good for both emotionally and I think he could bring a lot to the table business wise by helping Oliver get back QC, taking up the position as CEO of the company and helping Oliver to save SC (whether he knows the secret or not).

I love Diggle, but I hope they will give him more to do than be the voice of reason and Oliver/Arrow's quasi-psychologist. The show teased H.I.V.E. last season in 2x6. I'd really like to know what that is and why they wanted Diggle's brother dead. I think there could be some good story potential there that would not only give Diggle a much needed storyline but also could involve the rest of Team Arrow and Lyla. Also now that Oliver is "dead" he is the only person I can see stepping up to guide what's left of Team Arrow. So hopefully while Oliver is gone we'll see Diggle more front/center and calling the shots.

Felicity is the best, love her, was glad to see that we got a little back story on her in 3x5. But I'm probably the only viewer that was disappointed with it. Honestly I didn't think the episode was all that great - mainly due to the case surrounding her ex. I didn't think it was a very interesting case. Sacrilege I know! :). Anyway, she goes through this ordeal with her boyfriend going to prison then dying, which results in her dying her hair blond and is suddenly the Felicity we know and love today. It was a very difficult ordeal for her, no doubt, but I don't know. I guess I was expecting a little more. I hope that we do see more. What happened to her between Cooper's "death" and her ending up in Starling City? Who is her father? Why did he disappear? Is he some superhero or super villian, saving or destroying the world? Or is he just some normal guy with normal issues. I'd like to know more about her orgins. Also I absolutely love Charlotte Ross. I hope we'll see her again soon.

Fears

Oliver's baby mama drama. I don't want to see it, but know the show would not have touched on it so heavily last season then had Oliver run into her this season for it just to be a coincidence. It's inevitable they are going to explore this. I just hope they don't use it as some soap opera antic to keep Oliver and Felicity apart or as some threat to Oliver by one of his nemesis. If they must explore, hopefully it will be used to further explore Olive Queen and the humanity he always feel he's on the verge of losing.

Oliver's resurrection. I fear he will come back all wrong and screwed up and as a result not only will he be a danger to SC but will revisit his relationship with Laurel due to being screwed up and confused about who he was before he "died." As a result Felicity will take up with Crazy Eyes Ray and Olicity will be off course again for another season.

Also, I fear that Malcom will somehow be involved with Oliver's resurrection. I do not want to see this at.all. Malcom is irredeemable IMHO and I don't want Oliver owing him or working with him ( under the influence of hypnotic herbs or not) at all. I want Oliver to take him down and save Thea if she is unable to save herself.

Edited December 21, 2014 by Enero

[BkWurm1]

From the relationship thread. 

I for one really hope Oliver doesn't come back 50 shades of messed up because....just why? AGAIN???? If he doesn't, I'd love to see Felicity being more than hesitant to get into anything with him knowing he's accepts death the way he does.

...frankly if he rejects her again, do you thing Felicity. Can't stand that it's Ray, but unfortunately he's whom we've been given.

But I'm hesitant to say that because, didn't one of the EPs say we'd be surprised how much humanity Oliver wants back? Have we already been surprised or are they keeping that for the final 3 episodes of season 3?

ETA: Actually I retract that "do your thing". I would like to see her at LEAST ask him why he keeps saying he loves her then retracting it. These two need to desperately TALK to each other. No more tunning scared damn it.

 

Kind of touches on a lot of things. First off:

 

 Is Oliver coming back himself or messed up in the head? (more than just almost dying and falling off a cliff would mess you up)  That is going to feed into how he reacts to Felicity when he returns.  I mean, if he comes back, seemingly himself and then tells Felicity, oh, yeah, I do love you but I'm still not going to be with you, why the hell would she wait around for him at all?  What I'm concerned we will get is this kind of reaction from Oliver only to discover that he isn't right in the head, so it will turn out that Felicity is turning to Ray because Oliver is under some kind of influence or something.   I just don't want the ridiculous drama.  Too melodramatic for me. 

 

Then the issue of accepting and facing death:

 

I don't think this would be as big of an issue.  From the start Felicity has accepted the risks that Oliver takes.  Death, for any of them, is a possibility.  What she won't accept is not trying to live life to the fullest despite the risk of death.  Oliver's point of view seems to have been, there is no point in reaching for things outside of the mission because it's all going to end soon anyway while Felicity wants to hope for the best and take in as much as life has to offer, damn the risks.  It's too late to protect her heart so I think the only thing that would make Felicity hesitate is fearing Oliver is going to change his mind again. And dear lord if that happened again, sigh.   

 

I'm still speculating ( based almost on nothing) that by the end of the season, Oliver is going to hang up his leathers and try to be just Oliver Queen full time and then leave it to next season for him to find a balance between Arrow and Oliver - so along with that idea, I'm kind of expecting him to still come back just as wishy washy about his life choices as before but with a desire to figure out a way to let him be with Felicity.  I'm just not sure if we are going to have multiple episodes wasted by Oliver not being himself or if we will jump right back into him trying to work it out.  If he's not some crazy version of Oliver, I'm not sure if we will get full blown dating between Felicity and Ray. 

 

The way I see it, before Oliver comes back alive, the only way Felicity would be with Ray is if a) there is a major time jump of like a year or b) it's some kind of hugely OOC grief hook up that she immediately regrets (or at least sees as unhealthy and not fair to Ray)  which, of course is why I'm hoping there is no hooking up with Ray before Oliver is back again.

 

Actually, I'm keeping my fingers crossed that there won't be any further romance between Felicity and Ray (at least none that is reciprocated by Felicity).  It feels like the season really getting crowded with yet to be explored story lines.  Malcolm and Thea has been barely touched on.  The Ray Atom suit needs attention.  Some big fight for the end of the season needs build up.  Toss in maybe some more Argus stuff and is there really time or need to squeeze in Ray and Felicity actually dating? 

 

We already had the kiss.  TPTB promised Ray as a love interest for Felicity.  Check!  Now, lest move on to him being a rival/ally to the Arrow.  Felicity is a smart girl.  She knows now that she was recruited for the Atom project and she knows that while Ray might like her and while she might like him on some levels, neither of them have their hearts or heads in the right spaces to make a real go of it..  On Felicity's end, why would she chose to put her heart in such a precarious place?  Unless the certainty that a relationship with Ray would crash and fizzle (cause they don't generate enough heat to burn) is the whole point. 

 

Yeah, I have no clue what is going to happen. I'm just hoping the show can leave Felicity as Ray's guide into the hero biz and not have to make it a romance thing.  They've sowed the seeds enough for the writers to lay the guys out as two options (minus the part where Oliver says he isn't an option) so they could play with the who will she choose part without having to actually make Felicity choose Ray, if that makes sense. 

[DrSpaceman10]

So far, the only really important Oliver/Felicity moments were in 3x01 and 3x09, which possibly implies that we'll have to wait until May for any kind of forward movement with them.

 

If the writers do feel they have to keep Oliver/Felicity apart until May (because important things can only happen in the premiere, the mid-season finale, and the finale) then the only ways to keep them apart would either be Oliver coming back messed up or Ray and Felicity dating. The most cliched thing to do would be to have Ray and Felicity get into a relationship just as Oliver comes back (like they already sort of did in 3x07 with the kiss). 

 

If they really wanted to subvert viewer's expectations then they'd put Oliver/Felicity together when Oliver comes back, but they seem more afraid of the "Moonlighting Curse" than eager to subvert expectations.

Edited December 21, 2014 by drspaceman10

[TanyaKay]

And in three of those episodes (Corto Maltese, Felicity Smoak, the Climb) she and Oliver never interacted on screen at all.

 

Just wanted to point out that Oliver and Laurel did interact with each other in Corto Maltese. She came to him at the end of episode after getting beaten up and asked him to train her. He refused.

[quarks]

Thanks. I forgot that bit was in Corto Maltese. But I don't think that scene bodes well for an upcoming Arrow/Canary show.

[Jediknight]

For some reason when Ra's said this and then shoved Oliver off the cliff I got the weird impression that there was maybe a Lazarus pit below them in a ravine or something, and that we were going to find out later that Ra's intentionally killed Oliver so he could ressurect him for "reasons". (Not that that's logical, or that I would even want that, but that's where my head went.)

I think Ra's is playing Oliver.  He had Nyssa and Maseo up there so they could resurrect Oliver, and show Oliver he has friends in the League.  That entire time, they never let it be known to Oliver they're doing this under Ra's' orders.  Ra's knows Oliver didn't kill Sara, but he still had to kill Oliver, due to the challenge and Oliver showing disrespect to the League and Ra's by not telling them who killed Sara.

 

It's not so much that he cares about Sara, but he sees it that the guilty party has completely slapped the League in the face, with their disrespect of the League, Nyssa, and Ra's.  He has some respect for Oliver, or else he would have killed him quickly, and not praised him, and prayed for him.  He knows Oliver is covering for someone, so he sees that Oliver has honor in that he'll fight to protect somebody, and be willing to forfeit his life.  In the eyes of Ra's the guilty party, has no honor, the guilty party is sending Oliver to his death.  That's a complete lack of respect for the League, Nyssa, and Ra's, so Ra's wants the guilty party to burn.

 

Also during the fight when Oliver got his shot in, Nyssa starts to come forward like she was going to say something.  I think they showed us that, because they're going with it's a plan from Ra's, Nyssa, Maseo, and the rest of League to find out who killed Sara.

 

Season 1 could end with Barry going back in time to confront Reverse Flash the day his mother is murdered, and on Arrow, Felicity gets a phone call from Caitlyn telling her something big is happening, Both shows end with their worlds slightly different then they were before.

I don't want Flashpoint, because they can't do it justice with only a few characters.  It also can't be minor changes, Flashpoint made the world a vision of Hell that Dante would cry at.

Edited December 23, 2014 by Jediknight

[tv echo]

An altered timeline could certainly solve the InstaCanary problem for Arrow, wouldn't it?  In the new timeline, Laurel (not Sara) would go on the boat trip with Oliver, be presumed dead but end up training with the LOA for 5 years, then return to Starling City as the BC.  The EPs could completely retcon the past 2.5 years and start over again.  But it would be a BIG CHEAT - along the lines of Bobby Ewing showing up in the shower and telling Pam that the past year of Dallas was just a bad dream...

[calliope1975]

I really hope Malcolm Merlyn is the big bad this year. Barrowman's great, but Malcolm is totally crazy pants. JB can talk about how Merlyn loves his daughter, but I'm not seeing it at all. I'd much rather Ra's be using Oliver to take down Merlyn. He can be a frenemy for now and then go all out villain in a later season.