Hopes and Fears: How Will We Survive This Island? (Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers)

[wonderwall]

I hope that in episode 9, Felicity tells Ray, "You're everything I want in a guy, you're just not the guy I want."  With that relationship declared as strictly friendship, I would dread the post-break episodes a little less.

The only reason why I want this is not because of Oliver/Felicity, but because I just DON'T want Felicity to string Ray along if she knows that nothing can come from her relationship with Ray or if she still has strong feelings for Oliver. It's just not right and I don't believe the Felicity I've come to know would ever do this. Then again, the writers have been writing her to be a little OOC so anything can happen. 

[Password]

If Felicity really and truly believes there will never be a chance for her and Oliver, and why wouldn't she after being repeatedly told, I think she'd give Ray a proper try. I don't know, Felicity seems hell bent on moving on. I really don't want her to crash but I can see that happening. BAM!! Crap, still in love with Oliver.

[statsgirl]

I think Felicity is going to try to move on but you don't stop loving someone like that.  Ray may do the salmon ladder and he may have the billionaire CEO stuff down pat, but he's not Oliver. 

 

When the writers do the next stall to keep Oliver and Felicity apart (and you know they will), I want Oliver to tell Felicity that even though he feels he can't be with her now because reasons,  I want him to tell Felicity that he when he saw her with Lyla's baby, he wanted a life like that with her.  That he has his own silent dreams (as she said to Barry) and they're of her.  Tie together all the little pieces the writers have been dangling in front of us.

 

Just to give me something to go on. 

Edited November 27, 2014 by statsgirl

[Ariah]

There's been talk how the men of Spartacus are coming over to Arrow and I thought - hey, wouldn't it be great to have more of them? (and not only men...)

 

Like: Dustin Clare (Gannicus) -> great Aquaman in my books. Frankly, great anything in my books, just as long as he's not a villain.

 

Ellen Hollman (Saxa) -> Laurel Lance after plastic surgery.

Anna Hutchison (Laeta) -> Barbara Gordon / Oracle

[BkWurm1]

I had hoped to stay away from the spoilers but I fear my anxiety over what is going to happen has sent me headfirst into the spoilers.  Again, hopefully I'll be back on the wagon during the hiatus...or at the very least I will be so confused over what might happen that all my speculation will be non spoiler based.  Knowing just a little is painful!

[statsgirl]

From the spoiler thread:

 

They love their iterations.  I am wondering if Team Arrow with Oliver, Diggle & Felicity is the first iteration and Oliver, Roy & Laurel will be the second (S4).  I don't think Felicity is going anywhere but I wonder if we'll see much of her in the lair going forward. I do believe she is being set up as the love interest and eventually I think she'll be more at Palmer Tech or Queen Inc and we'll see her handling Arrow stuff from there. 

 

If they are working on another spin-off I think it would be the Suicide Squad.  If that happens it's where I would expect to see Diggle.  He's basically operating as Oliver's friend and sounding board now. Roy's in the field.  When Diggle has been in the field it has been because of Lyla.  Otherwise, I wouldn't be surprised if DR became recurring in S4.

They do love their iterations.  But not every new iteration is better than the old one.  It worked for The Hood and for Deathstroke, but I have the feeling they should have stopped Canaries at Sara because it will be hard to sell Laurel as a better Canary then her.

 

In terms of Roy and Laurel replacing Diggle and Felicity, I think Diggle serves the function of the wise mentor, which is not a role Roy can fill no matter how good he gets with his aresenal.  There is a possibility that Oliver could take the role over but creatively, I don't think that could happen before his five year arc is up and he's grown back into a whole person.  At that point, it's possible Oliver could take over the Wise Man role to Roy's Young Man but I would still miss Diggle, and it would limit what Oliver could do.

 

I don't think Laurel could take over Felicity's place.  Objectively because she can't do the tech stuff and the show has demonstrated again and again how important that is. (Even now it's Felicity who is doing the work to look for Sara's killer, not Laurel.)  It's possible Felicity could do the tech stuff from PI/QC there but not realistic, already she's had problems in Corto Maltese doing both jobs at once and if Oliver refused to go 18 floors to talk to her about how they spend their nights, imagine what it's going to be like when it's 18 miles.  Subjectively, I don't see Laurel bringing either the humor or the emotional connection to others (including Diggle, Roy and any of Team Flash who drop by) that Felicity does and I think that's an important part of the show. 

 

If there is a Suicide Squad spin-off, I could see Diggle being on it in a recurring role while mixing duties on Arrow.  I don't see him being on there full time unless the writing somehow manages to deal with his dislike of blowing up Squad members every time Waller or Lyla decides they need to.

[writersblock51]

I alluded to a theory in the Spoiler discussion thread about what the show would be willing to do to garner viewer sympathy for Laurel.  Currently, it seems that her path to becoming BC will be a very painful, bumpy one.  But the other avenue I considered - and hope does not happen - is that she is raped. 

 

I think Sara was assaulted on many levels in her past, after she 'died' the 2nd time. We didn't see it or have her give details, but I think her motives to take on men who had been cruel to women came from a deep pool of tragic, first hand experience.

 

The CW isn't afraid to have rape as part of their shows.  I do hope that Arrow doesn't use it as a means to get sympathy for Laurel. But I would not be surprised if it happened anyway.

[BkWurm1]

I agree that the show has implied more than once that Sara faced rape and probably experienced it.  Between washing about the Amazo in a filmy bra and panties and only being save at the last second by Dr. I already forgot his name, they sold it without ever having to show it.  CL's terrified screams still stick in my head.  Then of course the "No woman should suffer at the hands of men" line, yeah she speaks from personal experience. 

 

I don't think we will see it happen to Laurel - at least not this season - because I think the time for it to have happened o her in order to  gain viewer's sympathy would have been when Laurel first donned a ski mask and tried to beat that guy up. That would have worked timing wise.  Now if it happens, it would just slow down her "journey" right as they are ramping it up.

 

I can't remember if BC had the rape storyline in the comics (I want to say she did) but I swear most female superheroes get faced with it at some time. It would be a very bad card to play since there is nothing entertaining about rape.  CW shows have gone there but I don't think a show like Arrow or Flash or Smallville could comeback from that happening in the present.  Out of the past, yes, but newly happening, no.   It kind of makes it all too real and at the very least would derail the normal storylines since suddenly they would seem cheap and frivolous.  They've already stepped too close to the doom and gloom with Sara's death, I dearly hope they don't decide to go there.   

[insubordination]

The writers of 'Arrow' simply aren't good enough to handle a rape storyline. I agree that showing what little they did of Sara's plight had enough impact and I'm really glad they left it where they did.  I think KC could pull it off, but I definitely don't want to see it on a show like this one. There is already far too much torturous grief on this show.

 

(Sidenote: It seems all the shows I watch Game of Thrones, Outlander, Vikings and Pretty Little Liars all have rape. Ugh! I've gotta get me some new shows.)

[dtissagirl]

Isn't Green Arrow supposed to be funny, charming, a womanizer and left-leaning? That's what I have read anyway.  He's so different from SV Arrow. I like SAmell, and I do like Oliver (75% of the time) and want him to win,  but enough with the constant misery.

Yes to all you listed about Green Arrow. His favorite past times include adopting kids off the streets, losing his fortune and then getting it back again just 'cause he can, and mocking super-powered folks to their faces about being super. Actually, he mocks everyone to their faces all the time, it's his entire schtick.

I'm hoping this is the very last season they can get away with ripping off Bats, and once they add GREEN to the Arrow, he won't BE Bat-lite anymore, because GA is not at all about having all the guilt, and the weight of the world on his shoulders. He helps people because it's the right thing to do when you have the means to do it. And he *enjoys* doing it.

[KirkB]

From what I have read in the comics Green Arrow is generally written as what Batman would be if he were emotionally healthy. I was hoping (as I usually do with the TV interpretations) that the Arrow people were planning to do their version of the comic characters though, not simply retread what has been done. Laurel is Black Canary in the comics. I thought making her Sara (an invented character) was a brilliant way of saying "See? We're doing our own thing." But they're not, they're succumbing to the easy lure of because comics! and that's disappointing.

[Morrigan2575]

These guys are too in love with Batman and TDK Trilogy to do an actual Green Arrow show/character.

[writersblock51]

There are enough elements of the comic Oliver/Green Arrow that could be pulled into the show that would be a welcome tweak - not a replica of the comic book character but with familiar aspects that also - and most importantly, IMO, differentiate him from the many variations of Bruce Wayne/Batman.

 

I think SA's humor is pretty well known now. Oliver has had many good zingers and snark. I think keeping that and adding to it would be good.  I also think his facial expressions have been excellent at letting us see that he can joke around, too, even if he doesn't say a thing. I instantly picture the scene with him and Roy talking about flying to Corto Maltese, when Roy admits he's never been on a plane before. It was a subtle but effective moment that I think we need more of.

 

Oliver's philanthropy has been wrapped up, I think, in his ulterior motives (helping Sebastian last year). I'd like to see - when he has the company back, perhaps - a brief scene where he's quietly donating money or supplies to a worthy cause.  And it would have NOTHING to do with advancing a Team Arrow investigation.

 

If Oliver ultimately gets into Starling City politics, that would be good, too. Maybe.

 

I wish the show would remember that they have this character to build up and around.  The fascination with expanding the universe and focusing on all the shiny new toys is hurting this show already. I hope it doesn't get worse.

[statsgirl]

I alluded to a theory in the Spoiler discussion thread about what the show would be willing to do to garner viewer sympathy for Laurel.  Currently, it seems that her path to becoming BC will be a very painful, bumpy one.  But the other avenue I considered - and hope does not happen - is that she is raped. 

I really hope they don't go this route for a number of reasons:  because it was strongly indicated that Sara was and I don't want to see Laurel repeating it; because I don't think it would be entertaining to watch; and because it would be about weakening Laurel yet again.  She's had so many chances to step up to being her super-powered self, from Tommy's death to the legal system failing to Sara's death now (why are people on this show always being motivated by death?) and if an outside reason to be strong isn't enough, I don't want to see it because she's been made weak yet again.

 

I wish the show would remember that they have this character to build up and around.  The fascination with expanding the universe and focusing on all the shiny new toys is hurting this show already. I hope it doesn't get worse.

My hope is that they stop trying to copy the Nolan Batman, or the comic Batman, and be creative with what they've got SA's Oliver Queen.  I didn't like Nolan's Batman, I even preferred the George Clooney versioin (heresy, I know) so having this show reproduce TDK is a lose-lose for me.

[insubordination]

I don't want Oliver to 'come back wrong' like Buffy did. Not fun to watch. I know they like to torture him, but leave the poor guy alone for a while. Death would be a sweet release for him at this point.

[SonofaBiscuit]

With Guggenheim's declaration that the show will never be the same again, I fear this is where we move full speed ahead with Lazarus Pits, tiny shrinking humans, superpowered freaks of the week, etc.  If I want to see that, I'll watch The Flash. 

 

I fear that we'll never see SA shirtless again, what with all those new scars he's going to have from being impaled with a sword.

 

This mid-season finale literally made me sick to my stomach (the last time that happened was when Sara died).  FFS, a TV show shouldn't make me so miserable, I have real life for that!  I don't even think that I can take the emotional fallout from this (especially for Felicity), so I might have to wait a while before tuning back in again.  Ugh.

Edited December 11, 2014 by SonofaBiscuit

[Ariah]

The thing I fear most now - and it's an irrational fear - is that they really pulled a Ned Stark and the Oliver we see in the photos is a vertigo induced vision.

 

But, as I say, it's an irrational fear propelled by Stephen Amell trolling the internet with his "it was a good run" quotes. And the fact that the show would most definatelly not be the same sans-Arrow.

 

Also, my friend textd me saying "I'm afraid they're going to drop Arrow for Atom". I try not to be wexed.

[statsgirl]

If some people really think that Oliver is gone, then the cliff-hanger did what it was meant to do.

 

I can't see the show being about anyone other than Oliver.  They're not going to make a Diggle show, unless it's the Suicide Squad, and none of the other supporting actors is a good enough actor to carry it.  Heck, it took even Stephen Amell until now to be really nuanced in playing his role.

 

 

I don't want Oliver to 'come back wrong' like Buffy did. Not fun to watch. I know they like to torture him, but leave the poor guy alone for a while. Death would be a sweet release for him at this point.

Yeah. I'm getting tired of seeing Oliver get beat up on, and take two steps forward and then three back.

[tv echo]

I'm hoping that the success of The Flash and the great ratings for the Arrow crossover episode will cause the EPs to lighten up Arrow in the future.  I don't want Arrow to be as lighthearted as The Flash, but it doesn't have to be so dark all the time.

[writersblock51]

I'm hoping that when Oliver comes back, and we know he will, that he's not a meta-human.  Stronger, wiser (shed those family & Lance blind spots!) and a bit more sword skilled, yes.  Super strength, amnesia, too strong to be intimate with the woman he loves? NO.

 

Ideally, I hope the meta-human factor stays off of Arrow but that ship may have sailed with Ra's Anti-Aging Treatment Program pretty much out in the open.

[Ariah]

I may be fine with Oliver being just a little bit stronger. Just a little bit.

 

But I really hope for at least one episode of the team struggling without Oliver - and I want to see Oliver struggling without his team. It's the only thing that can sweeten these Oliver-lite episode for me.

 

(Also, I'm not a fan of how the EP's are trying to sound as if Oliver is dead-dead and not coming back)

[Starfish35]

Ok, this is SHEER speculation, which is why it is going here rather than the spoiler thread. Ausiello just posted a Blind Item about a pregnancy on a show in early 2015.

http://tvline.com/2014/12/12/blind-item-pregnant-star-series-ausiello/

Sources confirm to TVLine exclusively that an established program that is covered voraciously on this very site is planning to impregnate its leading lady (the character, not the actress!) early in the new year — and it’s safe to say no one will see the baby twist coming.

The pregnancy — the timing of which defies almost every television convention — has the potential to dramatically alter the DNA of the series. (And this is not a show on its last legs; this baby, and the subsequent implications, will likely be around for a good while). It also comes as the relationship between the mother and father is hardly on solid ground.

I can't hardly imagine that it would be Arrow, but Arrow has come up in the comments, and it does fit the main basic criteria - a show on one of the main five networks (NOT cable) that is in its third to fifth season and that is Iikely to be around for awhile (in other words, not in its final season or about to be cancelled).

Just throwing it out there for your speculation/amusement/nightmares/dreams.

edited to correct date

Edited December 13, 2014 by Starfish35

[SonofaBiscuit]

^Nah, it's probably about OUaT.  Notice how they mention DNA?  Everyone on that show is related.

[ohjoy]

“Forgive and have mercy on him. Excuse him and pardon him. Make honorable his reception. Protect him from the punishment of the grave. And the torment of the fire.”

For some reason when Ra's said this and then shoved Oliver off the cliff I got the weird impression that there was maybe a Lazarus pit below them in a ravine or something, and that we were going to find out later that Ra's intentionally killed Oliver so he could ressurect him for "reasons". (Not that that's logical, or that I would even want that, but that's where my head went.)

Edited December 13, 2014 by RandomMe

[scarynikki12]

Nah, it's probably about OUaT

 

Once does treat Regina like the female lead a lot of the time even though it's supposed to be Emma.  Regina also recently slept with her married boyfriend while Emma's relationship with Hook is still in its early, kissing only, stages. 

 

Even if it's not about Once I agree that it's not about Arrow.  Neither Laurel nor Felicity is involved in a romantic relationship so either getting pregnant this season wouldn't make any sense.  Plus, they're pushing Laurel as the Black Canary and Felicity is always at work or the Arrow Cave and a pregnancy would bring their respective stories to a screeching halt. 

 

I am curious about which show that refers to and I hope I remember to look for the answer when it happens.

[statsgirl]

The best guess for the pregnancy that I read was Penny on The Big Bang Theory.  The show is not going anywhere since they just signed new contracts,l and it's about scientists which would account for the DNA, although I think Bernadette is the only one who works with it.  But it's been on for 8 seasons so it doesn't qualify.  An alternate is Casey/Dawson from Chicago Fire.

 

Should we move this to The Quiver since it's probably not about Arrow?

Edited December 13, 2014 by statsgirl

[tv echo]

I'm still trying to understand why Felicity didn't say ILY back to Oliver.  So I'm speculating that maybe it had something to do with her father.  Maybe the last time she saw him, he was leaving for a work trip and said ILY to her and little Felicity said ILY back.  Then he never returned and Mama Smoak believed that he had abandoned his family.  So when Oliver was leaving and said ILY to her, maybe she had a sudden deja vu moment and wanted to say ILY back but couldn't because she was irrationally afraid that if she said it, he wouldn't return.

[wonderwall]

I'm still trying to understand why Felicity didn't say ILY back to Oliver.  So I'm speculating that maybe it had something to do with her father.  Maybe the last time she saw him, he was leaving for a work trip and said ILY to her and little Felicity said ILY back.  Then he never returned and Mama Smoak believed that he had abandoned his family.  So when Oliver was leaving and said ILY to her, maybe she had a sudden deja vu moment and wanted to say ILY back but couldn't because she was irrationally afraid that if she said it, he wouldn't return.

I mentioned in the relationships thread that maybe the reason why is because up until that point she thought Oliver regretted her which is why she had trouble opening up her feelings to him again. Plus he didn't really give her a chance to internalize what he said before he left. 

[Starfish35]

Should we move this to The Quiver since it's probably not about Arrow?

I put it here for Arrow related speculation, but yeah, speculation about it being another show should probably go to the Small Talk thread.

[tv echo]

This reviewer pointed out another hint of the Lazarus Pit:

While it’s a cold, snowy mountain, there is steam rising nearby, and Maseo (in his new League identity) did identify it as consecrated ground for their order..... So yes, there’s every possibility that with his seemingly dying breaths, Oliver will crawl his way toward this green hot spring and poof, he’s all better. 

http://www.newsarama.com/22961-arrow-fall-finale-who-killed-sara-lance-oh-and-about-that-ending-and-what-s-next-spoilers.html

 

So we've seen the following clues pointing toward Oliver's survival via some type of Lazarus Pit and/or magical herbs:

• Ra's first appearance on the show was emerging from water
• Oliver packed some herbs when he left
• Ra's last challenge was 67 years ago
• Fight took place on LOA consecrated ground
• There is steam rising nearby
• Ra's didn't skewer Oliver through the heart
• It was freezing cold, which would slow blood flow
• Maseo, a former friend/ally, was conveniently present at the fight
• Someone approached Oliver's body

Edited December 14, 2014 by tv echo

[statsgirl]

And don't forget how much these writers love their comic book parallels!  As much as I don't want it to be, it looks like it's the Lazarus Pit for Oliver.

 

(It makes sense that the LoA would put their duelling grounds near a Lazarus Pit.)

[tv echo]

I'm still thinking about Maseo's presence during Oliver's fight with Ra's.  Presumably Ra's selected who would be present.  Nyssa's presence is understandable.  But Ra's would pick someone he trusted.  Maseo only joined the LOA a few years ago.  Ra's would've investigated Maseo before allowing him to join the LOA.  So Ra's should know about Maseo's history with both ARGUS and Oliver.  So why would he pick Maseo to be the only other witness at that fight?  Someone floated the theory that Ra's deliberately didn't skewer Oliver through the heart but wanted Oliver to survive for some reason.  Perhaps he knew that Maseo would help Oliver?

[Ariah]

If the whole analogy with Batman is still valid, Ra's would want Oliver as his next heir and a father to Nyssa's children. Since we don't know if this universe has a Talia, Nyssa's the only daughter of Ra's we saw. Her relationship with Sara would not produce heirs to the League (not in the customary way, that is). Ra's could have just find the right man for the job - that is if he survives his a bit too-near-death experience.

 

After all, I believe Ra's was actually impressed with Oliver - as much as Ra's can be impressed that is. He knows Oliver took the blame for the murder and had the courage to actually ask for the trial by combat (in practice - he chose uncertain but painfull death instead of a quick death). What is more, the boy survived the climb and managed to score one hit and make Ra's actually bleed.

 

If I was the writer, I would have Ra's tell Maseo to retreive Oliver's body and Nyssa to nurse him back to health. Add a bit of brainwashing plants (Malcolm had to learn about those from someone) and there - Ra's can have his brand new Arrow to train (because Oliver Queen is dead).

[KirkB]

Oh man, that sounds exactly like something the EP's would do, only I don't want to see that for Nyssa.

[Trini]

You know what I'm dreading? The next few episodes and the previouslies. Because you know they going to keep showing over and OVER Oliver's death scene --just like they did with Sara-- and I don't think I can take it. The once was traumatizing enough.

[SonofaBiscuit]

You know what I'm dreading? The next few episodes and the previouslies. Because you know they going to keep showing over and OVER Oliver's death scene --just like they did with Sara-- and I don't think I can take it. The once was traumatizing enough.

 

Yeah, I was thinking about that.  I can handle the Sara death scene, but Oliver's "death" was even worse and I have no desire to ever see that again.  Like I said elsewhere, I can't even go on tumblr because there are tons of gifs of that scene everywhere and it's just too much!

Edited December 15, 2014 by SonofaBiscuit

[ban1o]

You know what I'm dreading? The next few episodes and the previouslies. Because you know they going to keep showing over and OVER Oliver's death scene --just like they did with Sara-- and I don't think I can take it. The once was traumatizing enough.

oh god you're right. I'll probably have to skip previouslies then 

[chaos is welcome]

I really hope they don't, although history dictates they will. I can't even go to tumblr these days because every gifset has it. It's awful :(

[BkWurm1]

I fear that we'll never see SA shirtless again, what with all those new scars he's going to have from being impaled with a sword.

 

This is the one reason why I could be ok with the Lazarus pits...if it took away all his scars.  If all SA had to do in order to take his shirt off was go in for the application of fake tattoos, that can't take too much time.  I need me some salmon ladder time...and shirtless training...and anything else that could be showcased best in slow motion. 

[tv echo]

I'm ambivalent about the possible introduction of the Lazarus Pit.  On the one hand, if it is used to bring back Oliver with enhanced abilities, then it will make him more equal to other superheroes who have superpowers.  On the other hand, the Lazarus Pit could be used to speed up Laurel's journey toward becoming a competent Black Canary (maybe used to save her after she is mortally wounded while ineptly fighting) - which would be a cheat and disrespect what Oliver and Sara had to go through.

Edited December 15, 2014 by tv echo

[TanyaKay]

http://instagram.com/p/wpI9f7pG0L/?modal=true

Willa just posted an instagram video where she is sporting long hair.
As they are shooting the episode with Colin Donnell in it, I suspect we will have Tommy/Thea flashbacks from the time when Oliver was missing.

[ban1o]

http://instagram.com/p/wpI9f7pG0L/?modal=true

Willa just posted an instagram video where she is sporting long hair.

As they are shooting the episode with Colin Donnell in it, I suspect we will have Tommy/Thea flashbacks from the time when Oliver was missing.

mmm shouldn't this go in the spoiler thread? not really sure :P

 

Anyway if not, Then yeah it look like it.

Edited December 15, 2014 by ban1o

[Kordi]

This is not a spoiler, but a mere speculation from the comments at "tv.com". I think this is an interesting possibility:

 

"I've been thinking about a peculiar reaction that Nyssa had when Ra's spoke of getting revenge for her slain beloved. She was surprised. That was not the expected reaction of someone getting justice for a lost love one. So my thought is that maybe Ra's decided that Sara wasn't worthy of his daughter so he had Malcolm kill her in exchange for releasing him from his blood debt. And of course Merlyn gets Thea to do it so that Oliver won't kill him and goes after Ra's to protect her. Malcolm knows that Oliver has no chance against Ra's, so he gets rid of the one person who could turn Thea against him, and Ra's has a scapegoat. My guess is that Nyssa is the person who saves Oliver."

[yellowfred]

I feel like Ra's has to have been up to something, just from how focused he was on finding Sara's killer, since he was pretty dismissive of her murder the last time we saw him.  Admittedly, if he did make a deal with Malcolm to set this whole thing up, that would be a pretty convoluted plan, but not much more convoluted than Malcolm training Thea and then brainwashing her to kill Sara so that Oliver would have to kill Ra's.  Plus, it would make more sense than Malcolm betting everything on Oliver being able to beat Ra's in a trial by combat, because Malcolm might be crazy and evil, but he's not that stupid.  On a personal level, I really hope that there's some additional element to why Sara was murdered that's actually about her, because I really don't like the idea of her being collateral damage in some power play.

 

As always, my best case scenario for this storyline is that Sara isn't really dead; she's just been laying low for a while, but now she's going to bring Oliver to the Lazarus Pit, because she owes him one.

[statsgirl]

Bringing this here from the spoiler discussion thread, it's fun speculation about how they're going to handle Oliver clutching Laurel's picture on the island in season five when he's back there again:

I can't decide if they're just gonna ignore the picture until the last possible minute when they actually have to deal with it [i.e. in the last episode of season five], or if they're gonna keep bringing it up on flashbacks to minimize its importance -- thus saying to the audience, "forget what you saw in the pilot, that was not at all the point we were trying to make, even though it totally was the cornerstone of our five-year plan to attach Oliver's humanity to the love of a woman, IF ONLY IT HAD WORKED WITH THE FIRST WOMAN, many apologies".

 

They've kinda done some minimizing of the picture last season when Sara showed up on the island, and Shado asked Oliver about the girl in the picture. Celina Jade -- bless her expressive eyes -- looked at Oliver as if he were A WORM TO BE SQUASHED. But yeah, if they wanna lampshade how much they want the audience to move on from that picture, the flashbacks in 314 would be the perfect time to make another derisive comment about it.

 

 

However, I agree, they'll keep minimizing its importance, at least while they're still aboard the Olicity train and if they don't decide (God forbid) to give Lauriver another go. I think one nice way they could extricate themselves from it is if in season 5 they try to convey the message that Oliver was so hellbent on fixing past mistakes and Laurel was the symbol of it. So in a way fixing things with her would erase the last five years, or something like that. At least that's what I wish they'd do. :)

 

I think the picture on the island is the easier part to fix.  When Oliver goes back to the island,  he takes the picture out, acknowledges that hanging on to it helped him get through those dark days at the beginning, but now he's a different person. He tenderly puts the picture into his father's book and packs them both up for when he's rescued.

 

The harder part is that picture on Oliver's desk in the present day season one scenes.  That implies he was still that much in love with her.

[BkWurm1]

We know he felt that he had to make it right with Laurel.  Keeping her picture right in front of him after her got off the island could just be a constant reminder to himself that he still had to figure out a way to make it right.   I kind of see that as the reason why he tried to get back together with her, he doesn't know any other way to make it right with Laurel.  Getting back together with her, reset the relationship.  He's last interactions with her stop being 'cheated on her with her sister'.  Unfortunately it switched to 'screwed over Tommy' even if it wasn't technically cheating.   

[DrSpaceman10]

I don't know if it's been posted on here, but one of the producers said on twitter that they had a scene where Oliver gives her the picture back (in 2x21) because he thinks he's going to die, but they cut that scene. 

 

I think they'll just retcon the picture, like they retconned Sara liking Oliver first in the flashbacks to make that subsequent "relationship" look more kosher.

[calliope1975]

I think they'll just retcon the picture, like they retconned Sara liking Oliver first in the flashbacks to make that subsequent "relationship" look more kosher.

 

I hope so. If Laurel had remained the love interest, then I could see the picture in the past being a nice parallel for the present. But we all know how that turned out and it would just be a bit weird (to me) to reference it now.

[yellowfred]

Personally, I wouldn't find it strange to have him be in love with Laurel (or, at least the idea of Laurel) at the point that he's about to come back to Starling City.  It would make sense for flashback!Oliver to end up, more or less, at that point, since that's pretty much where season1!Oliver started out.  I think it would work well as a point of contrast, showing how far he's come since returning from the island.  While I've never really bought into the idea that Oliver and Laurel had some great love, I think it makes sense that he had to let go of the idea of getting back together with her before he could move on. 

 

What I'll actually be more interested to see is how they get him to circle back to the list his dad gave him that he hasn't even looked at (that I can recall) since season one.  I think both that and the Laurel thing tie into the idea of Oliver coming back to fix past mistakes, so it could work well with him, in present day, resolving to let go of the past and build something new.

[Kordi]

Deleted, because contained SPOILER.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Kordi