Relationship Thread: Advice, Venting And Everything Else

[ratgirlagogo]

12 hours ago, JTMacc99 said:

Which is when he drops this line: "I don't care what Obama says. Hope is never good. Don't try it. It never works out."  That made me laugh really hard, because yep. That's where an awful lot of the bad shit that happens. When you have hope and then get let down.

Heh. Of course Hope was the last thing left in Pandora's Box after she accidentally opened it and let out all the evils of the world.  You could, yes, make the argument that hope wasn't an antidote to the evils, but the last of the evils itself:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandora

[JTMacc99]

5 hours ago, ratgirlagogo said:

Heh. Of course Hope was the last thing left in Pandora's Box after she accidentally opened it and let out all the evils of the world.  You could, yes, make the argument that hope wasn't an antidote to the evils, but the last of the evils itself:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandora

Nice!  Wikipedia also gives me this:

Norse mythology however considered Hope (Vön) to be the slobber dripping from the mouth of Fenris Wolf: their concept of courage rated most highly a cheerful bravery in the absence of hope.

[Zola]

On 12/10/2017 at 4:53 PM, wings707 said:

What happened!?   You can't leave us hanging.  

It didn't pan out very well. The meal was fine but the conversation throughout was awkward and full of the smallest of small talk.

I don't think she liked me all that much either as she kept on asking questions about my previous relationships and how they ended, and who was at fault etc. Not really the kind of Q&A one would expect on a first, and subsequently, final date!

Even more annoying was her insistence we go Dutch even though her part of the bill was about 40% more expensive than mine!

Think I'll stick to the tried and tested formula of spontaneous dates rather than formal ones, lol

Edited October 19, 2017 by Zola

[riley702]

Hmm. To me, Dutch means we each pay for our own. I'd have held to that, especially since the date was going so crappily.

Edited October 20, 2017 by riley702

[JTMacc99]

Anybody else besides me jump at the opportunity to focus on somebody else's relationship issues, difficulties at home, because being able to offer any sort of help is far better than dealing with your own shit?

Can't just be me.

[Darva6]

On 12/6/2017 at 10:36 AM, JTMacc99 said:

Anybody else besides me jump at the opportunity to focus on somebody else's relationship issues, difficulties at home, because being able to offer any sort of help is far better than dealing with your own shit?

Can't just be me.

Story of my life!!! :) :D

[JTMacc99]

You know... On Friday I was talking to one of the specific people I did that with a bunch last year, and something was off with her. I figured it out later. She was happy. Jerk. 

Heh.

[JTMacc99]

On Friday I came home from work and saw that I had received a couple Christmas cards from my old college friends. The first one was from one friend we recently reconnected with, so this was the first time in a long time I got a card from him. It was a beautiful picture of his family, him, his wife, his two dogs, and his four teenage daughters. :::shudder:::  Heh. That's a lot of girls. I got one tween, and she's a freaking handful. Four. And then I was like, "holy college tuition" and "holy weddings" and holy moly. 

But that's the fun one.

The other card was from the [Smiths], which was interesting, because my friend Bob separated from his wife earlier this year, and I have been told it's not an amicable separation at the moment. I noticed that the envelope looked like it always does, with the cutesy holiday cartoon representations of the family on the return address sticker, so I opened it up with some curiosity. There was a picture of future ex wife, the dog, and the two boys on the couch, and the words Happy Holidays from the Smiths, and then the first names of her, the two boys, and the dog.

It seems as though she sent this card to the whole mailing list, including all of his old college friends. I wonder if she also sent it to his work colleagues. This is boiling-the-bunny psycho stuff. My friend Chris, who went through a terrible divorce with his ex because she has narcissistic personality disorder, and fought him about everything, pointed out that Christmas card is a classic example of the same issue. 

Oh, and then Chris pointed out that return address label had her, the two boys, and the dog on it. She replaced him with the dog, and sent it to all of his friends. 

My poor friend. 

As I was driving to work today, I made myself laugh. I've decided that if I ever decide to add somebody back into my life again, forget STD testing. I want a full blown psych evaluation done.

Edited December 18, 2017 by JTMacc99

[DeLurker]

20 minutes ago, JTMacc99 said:

I've decided that if I ever decide to add somebody back into my life again, forget STD testing. I want a full blown psych evaluation done.

Years ago I was helping my friend write her Match.com profile.  I had her end with "References available upon request".

[Zola]

So last night I was invited to a Christmas Party by one of my business clients. All very nice and formal; very nice dinner etc. But then typically as the drinks flow I became more and more indiscreet and informal, to the point where i think I was drunk - so much so that I don't even remember what happened during the remainder of the evening. 

Earlier this morning I woke up in someone else's bed, very much worse for wear. But I am woken up my a women I met at the party, and she was carrying a tray full of breakfast food. I vaguely remember her greeting me with a "Good morning, Zola! How's your head?"

I think I just mumbled something, trying to play for time because I had no idea how I got here, and no idea who she was, and neither did I know her name!

I had a mild hangover, but nothing overly debilitating; and after drinking some coffee and eating a couple of slices of toast, I was feeling much better. But try as i might I still couldn't remember how I ended up in this woman's bed! And I still didn't know her name.

Inevitably, she filled me in with the events of last night - I was being a complete asshat apparently. Drunk, loud and overbearing etc. She even showed me a couple of vids she took on her mobile phone, and OMG I really was being incredibly dumb and embarrassing! And it would seem that by 1am I was dancing my arse off and singing (badly) at or nearby my dinner table. 

This woman (Claire), decided to take matters into her own hands and took me back to her place in a taxi. She tried to have a conversation with me last night but I was too drunk to be very helpful. And even though I had brought my handbag to the party, I decided not to take my driving licence, which meant Claire had no idea where I lived after searching through my bag for some ID.

Claire also mentioned that my client hosting the party, wasn't impressed with my outrageous behaviour, and that I will be getting an email from him at some point underlining his "displeasure".

I then asked Claire if we had sex when she took me back to her place, and it would seem we did, even though I don't remember any part of it, other than waking up in her bed.

It got me thinking - if I was really that drunk and not in control of my senses, should it be right for someone to take advantage of my drunken state without my consent? But then again, perhaps I did give consent but don't remember doing so? If I didn't give consent, could what she did be construed as a form of rape?

Anyway, after taking a shower and dressing, I called a taxi and went home. She still wants to see me again, but I really don't know what to think about that. I have had one-night stands before, but this one feels different somehow. I feel as if I wasn't in control of things; couldn't remember anything, and that I ended up having sex with a complete stranger. For the first time ever I feel "violated" somehow, but can't explain why!

 

OMG, sorry for the very very long post! 

[AgentRXS]

3 hours ago, Zola said:

It got me thinking - if I was really that drunk and not in control of my senses, should it be right for someone to take advantage of my drunken state without my consent? But then again, perhaps I did give consent but don't remember doing so? If I didn't give consent, could what she did be construed as a form of rape?

Yup, if she knew you were too intoxicated to even inform her of your address, then she knew you were too intoxicated to give your consent. To me, that's rape. Hell, you could have been the sexual aggressor in your drunken state, she still should have known better. She could have easily placed you on her couch for the night instead of in her bed. If you were both drunk, then it gets into a grayish area. It sounds like she was sober enough to remember everything, so yeah, if you were too impaired to give proper consent, its rape.

[Bastet]

5 hours ago, Zola said:

For the first time ever I feel "violated" somehow, but can't explain why!

Because you were.  That degree of inebriation takes away your ability to consent; even if she asked you if you wanted to have sex and you said yes, that's not consent because you simply do not have the ability to consent under those circumstances.

I'm very sorry that happened to you.

[JTMacc99]

The Chris in this story is a friend of mine for over thirty years. 

I went to a Giants game with him in early December and at one point he told me about this Christmas gift he got for his girlfriend Lisa, and he was so excited about it. To be fair, he gets pretty excited about stuff, so this isn't entirely unusual. I was pretty impressed with the effort he put in tracking down some guy in another country and all of the other things that went into it. 

They posted this blog entry on Facebook, and I had a fine time making the two of them laugh by poking fun at Chris by noting the life lessons I learned from hanging out with him in my twenties such as "never try to stop a person with boundless enthusiasm and fierce determination; just try to point them in a safe direction" as I use that lesson every day with my daughter. I also learned how to say "No. I'm not doing that" and just go home.  Chris immediately responded with "Do you want to drive to Dallas for the third day of the NFL draft?" which is EXACTLY the kind of thing he might have said at one point. Heh. 

So if you want to read a cute story about somebody doing something nice for somebody else, give it a read.

Edited January 12, 2018 by JTMacc99

[SaySay24]

I read the story...brought tears to my eyes!

[Sun-Bun]

@Zola, I like you---anyone who parties as hard as you do is a friend of mine. I've woke up hungover and not remembering my night's previous events((save for embarrassing video footage, which I've usually added to my Instagram stories like a dumbass)) way too many times, so this fellow party animal is toasting a pint your way, mate.

That being said, I'm so sorry about the gal who decided to take advantage of you in that state. However, I'm willing to give her a hard pass because she was probably pretty tipsy herself and went with the flow when she noticed you were hot to trot as well...she might've even felt a bit guilty about it upon reflection, hence the breakfast tray of remorse she kindly offered you. 

Just curious now---were you able to smooth things over with the client and did you maintain contact with the naughty woman?

[aradia22]

Quote

I'm not really down with proposals in general; I think marriage should be something both parties discuss and decide on, not something one asks the other to do.  And I think public proposals are awful.  And, boy howdy, do I think women should pick out their own rings.  But, these are my preferences, and I'd never get married anyway, so what do I care how someone else does things, really? 

Jumping in late but throwing in my two cents anyway. Even though I love rom-coms and romance novels, in real life I think you should see the proposal coming. In stories it tends to just be a way of rushing to the end and wrapping things up. (Sometimes to the detriment of the story but we can get into story structure in another thread.) But then I have a hard time, at least at this time in my life, picturing how a couple can be together for 6 months and know that they want to spend the rest of their lives together. I'm getting older and I have no idea how this is actually going to play out but I imagine knowing my significant other for 2-5 years before getting married. I think a proposal can be something romantic and spontaneous like @JTMacc99 described where you know its coming but the other person puts in some effort to make it a special memory. 

[ratgirlagogo]

On 1/12/2018 at 1:43 PM, JTMacc99 said:

. I also learned how to say "No. I'm not doing that" and just go home.  

Hooray for you!  This is so basic and yet how many people seem to NEVER learn this simple thing.  Half the cases on Investigation Discovery et. al. involve people, women usually,who never figured it out.  

[backformore]

Changing the subject here -  I read through this thread, and someone was talking about how to find a therapist. I don't know if that person found someone or not - but here goes -   My advice is to go to the Psychology Today website.  You can put in your town or zip code, and get a list of therapists in your area.  Photos, a little blurb, their specialties, location, and what insurance they take.  Psychology Today verifies that anyone listed has the credentials to practice in the state they list.  Therapists pay to be listed, so the listings tend to be current.  

[SaySay24]

I’ve written about my relationship here a little. I just want to say, I’m seeing an attorney on Tuesday to consider my options on separating. 

I do have a question in moving forward beyond the many questions I have for the attorney. What type of job, if any, could I try to apply for with no real recent or extensive job experience. I’m 32 years old with a Bachelor’s in education (3.98 GPA) and 2 full years plus 2 full summers of a Master’s in counseling (4.0 but no degree and no, I don’t think I can finish anywhere). Is there anything at all to even try toward at this point beyond minimum wage? I’m not looking down on that, I promise. I just have two young toddlers. I am reaching out to you all to ask, aka using one resource. 

[aradia22]

@SaySay24 I have no idea what the ideal job would be with those specifications. But I'm on the job search myself. And I don't know where you live but around the NY area, there are a lot of publishing houses and in looking up editing jobs I saw a couple of things that mentioned a BA in education. They were things like designing programs for schools or helping with books/DIY things to sell (Scholastic, etc.). That might be something that wouldn't immediately jump to mind and it might be less competitive than straightforward teaching or counseling jobs. Also, job sites have become more sophisticated. If you put in your credentials, some of them might be able to automatically generate suggestions for you. Give it a shot. I'm using ziprecruiter. 

[DeLurker]

@saysay24 - I am glad you are exploring your options regarding your marriage.   Find out what the typical parameters are in your state regarding custody, child support and alimony.  I think you will find your degree is quite versatile, but save exploring those options for another day.  What kind of career did you originally plan on pursuing?

[theredhead77]

@SaySay24 looking into substitute teaching, tutoring through a school, tutoring college students and teaching online courses at a community college or adult-ed would be a good place to start.

[backformore]

@SaySay24  You started on your masters, so at one point you were interested in that field.  If there is a community mental health center near you, they certainly hire people with your qualifications.   You can't be a therapist without the MA degree, but there are other jobs in mental health.  

[Zola]

I went out with a date last night, just to the cinema to watch "The Post", and all the way through she just wouldn't shut the hell up! And it turns out she is very much a SJW, not just behind the safety of a keyboard, but in the flesh too. All the way through she was highlighting identity politics and all the usual virtual signalling that goes with it. I mean, I'm not against such discussions, but surely there's a time and a place; and a cinema really isn't (or shouldn't) be one of those places.

And what made it worse was because I wasn't agreeing with her on all the points she was raising throughout the film, she then started taking a pop at me!

In retrospect I should have really paid more attention to her political megaphone when we started chatting a couple of weeks back. But i played along thinking that she would know when to switch off the politics and switch on the romance. But it seems she just can't help herself.

Just lately going out on dates is proving to be incredibly difficult compared to just a year or so ago. Is it me or are relationships in general becoming more and more complicated (especially for us "Millennial Generation")? 

[aradia22]

@Zola It sounds like that's just a case of someone who thinks it's OK to talk during movies (I don't) and someone who disagrees. I don't think her politics/activism/etc. is as relevant as that. I do think that when you sit down to talk about politics things can be more complicated than they were in the past because what you believe seems more significant these days. 

[Mindthinkr]

Ok. First time venting on this thread. I’ve been dating a guy, who I thought was wonderful, until last night. He had a bit to drink (too much IMO) and told me that he was thinking of breaking up with me. Today I told him about last night and he had no memory of it or what he said. This is the first time that he “blacked out”. After I told him about what was said and how he made me feel he apologized and seemed remorseful but the sting of his words haven’t gone away. Tonight I tried to give him the benefit of believing him but I’m worried that if anything small goes wrong he’ll end it without consideration of my feelings. Sunday we are supposed to leave for a 2 week trip together. Hmmm...I have enough $$ so if anything goes wrong I can get home alone no problem. If you go out for someone for 6 months and they don’t give you anything for Christmas, is that some kind of clue that I’m missing? I got us tickets to the symphony which he loves and some of his favorite food treats. I got nothing. He states his last wife was a gold digger but I’m self sufficient and not dependent on him for anything.  Any thoughts folks? I’m scared, still stung and wonder. Perhaps I’m being too emotional but I really waited (made him wait) a long time to even allow him to be a part of my life. Help please. 

[Moose135]

41 minutes ago, Mindthinkr said:

If you go out for someone for 6 months and they don’t give you anything for Christmas, is that some kind of clue that I’m missing?

Yes, it is.  At the very least, he's thoughtless and inconsiderate, but it makes it look like he doesn't care about you.  I'd had been seeing my girlfriend about two months by Christmas, and I would never have thought to not get her a gift.  It's not about spending a bunch on something, but a Christmas gift shows he cares and is thinking of you.

Having too much to drink without remembering what happened is a warning in itself, but saying what he did really sets off alarms.  There's probably truth in the Latin phrase in vino veritas. It seems strange to me that he would say that if he wasn't really thinking about it.

[Sun-Bun]

30 minutes ago, Mindthinkr said:

Ok. First time venting on this thread. I’ve been dating a guy, who I thought was wonderful, until last night. He had a bit to drink (too much IMO) and told me that he was thinking of breaking up with me. Today I told him about last night and he had no memory of it or what he said. This is the first time that he “blacked out”. After I told him about what was said and how he made me feel he apologized and seemed remorseful but the sting of his words haven’t gone away. Tonight I tried to give him the benefit of believing him but I’m worried that if anything small goes wrong he’ll end it without consideration of my feelings. Sunday we are supposed to leave for a 2 week trip together. Hmmm...I have enough $$ so if anything goes wrong I can get home alone no problem. If you go out for someone for 6 months and they don’t give you anything for Christmas, is that some kind of clue that I’m missing? I got us tickets to the symphony which he loves and some of his favorite food treats. I got nothing. He states his last wife was a gold digger but I’m self sufficient and not dependent on him for anything.  Any thoughts folks? I’m scared, still stung and wonder. Perhaps I’m being too emotional but I really waited (made him wait) a long time to even allow him to be a part of my life. Help please. 

He couldn't so much as give you one thing for Christmas? Whatttt??? NOTHING?!

Nope. Hell no. My red flags would be waving like crazy over that dick move.

When you're in a supposedly stable relationship, Christmas and holidays are not just about YOU anymore. No one gives a shit about your past or some shitty excuse of "golddigger ex" baggage. You make an effort. You make a point to show that you care about your special someone with a special something, even if it's just a dinner/show out or flowers or candy. The way you took care of him for the holiday makes me wonder if he's subconsciously enjoying finally being on the other side of the checkbook.

I think it's time you sit him down for a chat; tell him just how much his drunken words truly stung and that you're having trouble forgetting it and the damage is done. Maybe mention that his drinking habits are questionable. DEFINITELY mention that your feelings were still already hurt from his Scrooge ass completely forgetting to get you anything for Christmas. And then I'd tell him you feel it's time for a break because you're not sure if he's ready to be the committed and considerate partner whom you truly deserve, therefore you need time away to assess your own feelings. Maybe in that time apart you both can honestly think about how compatible you truly are, because he definitely isn't respecting you and your feelings the way a good partner should.

Honestly, I feel your pain though; this douchewaffle sounds like all the unappreciative jerks I used to date. I'd spoil them too, take them to concerts and nice meals, spa treatments, give thoughtful gifts on holidays...I couldn't even tell you what I got in return, beyond a few half-assed dinners/drinks out. Certainly not any mind-blowing orgasms either! And it was usually that same bullshit about ex'es and not wanting to get too serious, "I've been hurt", "my life is complicated", blah,blah,blah,bullshitcakes. 

You can do better. You're worth more than that. Life's too short to settle. 

[emma675]

MINDTHINKR, you deserve so much better! Hell, I gave office coworkers I had known for 6 weeks Christmas gifts last year, 6 months of dating pretty much requires a gift (unless you both mutually decide not to). I would postpone the vacay if you're able to and maybe tell him you need a break so you can think things over and decide if you want to continue to see him.

[BookWoman56]

1 hour ago, Mindthinkr said:

I’ve been dating a guy, who I thought was wonderful, until last night.... If you go out for someone for 6 months and they don’t give you anything for Christmas, is that some kind of clue that I’m missing? I got us tickets to the symphony which he loves and some of his favorite food treats. I got nothing. He states his last wife was a gold digger but I’m self sufficient and not dependent on him for anything.  Any thoughts folks? I’m scared, still stung and wonder. Perhaps I’m being too emotional but I really waited (made him wait) a long time to even allow him to be a part of my life. Help please. 

If he was truly wonderful until last night when he got drunk and confessed he was thinking about breaking up with you, then he would have given you something for Christmas to reciprocate for what you gave him.  I've encountered one variety of this person before, where the person who had a gold-digger ex deliberately did not give gifts and so forth for a while as a kind of "test" to see if the new person would demand an expensive present, etc. But you've been dating for 6 months now, and he's had plenty of time to determine if you're interested in him versus his wallet. I don't know how to say this any less bluntly than this: if the two of you are at a stage in your relationship where you're going on a 2-week trip together, then you're at a point where a month ago, he should have given you a Christmas present, even if it wasn't as expensive or thoughtful as what you gave him, just as an indication that he was thinking about you.  So while he didn't give you a tangible Christmas present, he sure as hell gave you an intangible one: the knowledge that he has little to no consideration for your feelings. In your situation, I would not go on the trip with him, because if he's thinking about breaking up with you, my guess is that is the time when he will do it, when you're away from home with no support system around. At a minimum, take the advice @Sun-Bun offered and have a serious discussion with him, in which you tell him that because of his behavior (lack of present plus drunkenly stating he's thinking of breaking up), you feel the need for a break to consider whether to continue or end the relationship.  Obviously, I don't know this specific guy, but I know his type, and IMO you're better off cutting your emotional losses now than staying invested in a relationship with a guy who is never going to be considerate of you. He's going to use the tale of the gold-digger ex to justify every jerk move he makes, and no matter how many hoops you jump through, it's never going to be enough.

[Bastet]

5 minutes ago, BookWoman56 said:

if the two of you are at a stage in your relationship where you're going on a 2-week trip together, then you're at a point where a month ago, he should have given you a Christmas present, even if it wasn't as expensive or thoughtful as what you gave him, just as an indication that he was thinking about you.

Yes, this.  It's not so much about the time frame - although I'm hard-pressed to imagine a situation in which dating for six months does not inspire a person to give the other something for Christmas - as about the fact agreeing to go away together, not for a long weekend, but for TWO WEEKS, implies a significant level of intimacy, compatibility, and possibility of a long-term future for the relationship (something that, on the flip side, I'm as surprised to see happen after only six months as I am to see a present not happen after six whole months).  So for me it's really the disconnect between what that indicates versus what talking about breaking up when alcohol loosened his tongue plus not giving so much as a box of candy for Christmas indicates.  It's screwy, and I think the latter is a better barometer of his commitment (or lack thereof).  I wouldn't go on a trip with him under the circumstances, and would likely quit seeing him altogether, but at the very least it calls for a frank conversation.

[AgentRXS]

The only way it would be considered acceptable to not get a Christmas gift is if it is mutually agreed upon way beforehand that you weren't going to exchange gifts. I had an ex who didn't celebrate  any holidays, not even his own birthday. He refused to accept gifts from me, and he never got me anything either.I accepted it because holidays don't matter much to me either.  It seems like this guy had no problem accepting your gifts, but couldn't muster up anything for you? He's on my "Ain't-Shit" list for that.  You should probably be thankful for his so-called "blackout" moment (which I find questionable)because it either told you how he really feels, or he is trying to emotionally manipulate you. He may be testing your level of commitment to him by seeing how you respond to him saying something like that.

Its up to you, of course, but I say cancel the trip and walk away. It sounds like this man is just wasting your time.

Edited January 23, 2018 by AgentRXS

[aradia22]

@Mindthinkr Part 1: The Confession

I think it matters what kind of a drunk he is. Like, what was his tone when he was telling you about wanting to break up? Was he casual and jokey? Was he serious and lucid? Was he angry or depressed and going into your perceived faults? Or was it just hurtful because he brought it up? 

Part 2: The Gift

If he's been married, I'm guessing you're a little older. For me, six months isn't a huge deal unless you're seeing each other all the time and/or exclusive. But again, it sounds like you're older than I am and things are serious if you're going on a 2 week long trip. So I think you have a valid reason for concern. If you feel like it's that kind of relationship maybe talk to him about it. Not about gifts but figuring out if you're both serious and looking for a commitment. If you don't like what you hear, at least you'll know. 

Edited January 23, 2018 by aradia22

[Zola]

On 21/01/2018 at 7:30 PM, aradia22 said:

@Zola It sounds like that's just a case of someone who thinks it's OK to talk during movies (I don't) and someone who disagrees. I don't think her politics/activism/etc. is as relevant as that. I do think that when you sit down to talk about politics things can be more complicated than they were in the past because what you believe seems more significant these days. 

I would tend to agree. She's is forever on Twitter & Instagram amongst other SM sites posting her politics and sometimes telling me all about it when she's finished.  She's certainly a vocal activist compared to my fairly backseat stance. But we had a good talk a couple of days ago and she's agreed (or at least will try) to tone it down when we're together socialising, otherwise I might as well cut my losses and move on. 

I guess with the advent of SM everyone has the right to air their political views (amongst other things), which is fine when everyone that follows you agrees with your sentiment; but when someone disagrees it all kicks off into the long grass.

Still, I do give a good hand massage - which generally shut her up for more than five minutes, lol

[theredhead77]

10 hours ago, Mindthinkr said:

He had a bit to drink (too much IMO) and told me that he was thinking of breaking up with me

If he said it when he's drunk it's been in his mind. I'm of the belief that actions speak louder than words. His actions of not getting you anything for Christmas, after 6 months, not even a bogus I made reservations at your favorite fancy place with your favorite of wine special date night after-thought gift speak volumes. 

I wouldn't even have a conversation about it, because it sounds like he's going to spin it into being about him and his ex, you're crazy blah blah. At this point I'd see if I could get my money back for the trip, or bring a friend and break up with his ass.

[DeLurker]

@Mindthinkr - I think the feedback everyone else has given is spot on. You'll be on watch for clues in his behavior 24/7 if you go away and I can't imagine that will be enjoyable in any way.  Well, if it were me, I would be.

How long ago was the trip planned?  And timing of this black out is suspicious to me.  If there's been no other times where he's indulged too much or let something casually slip out, is it coincidental that this happens a week before your extended trip together?

Our pasts are automatically going to influence our future relationships - so him being wary of a golddigger is a reasonable concern for him to have.  But if he hasn't figured out what category you fall in after 5 months (before Christmas), then he's an idiot.  And we all have prior relationships that had rough patches - subsequent relationships shouldn't have to spend their time trying to make up for a failed relationship's deficiency.

Think carefully about what you want to do and not whether it inconveniences him in any way.

I'm really sorry this happened to you. 

[Mindthinkr]

My many thanks to all of you for your thoughtful replies. I cancelled a date we were supposed to have tonight and tomorrow am going up to my daughter’s overnight. I plan to use the time to reflect about what happened. Now I’m fighting a bit of depression. Some from what he said, some from the bubbles being burst and as much as I’d like to ignore some red flags I just can’t. I was on the phone last night with a girlfriend who has met him (her boyfriend too). They didn’t want to hurt me but have felt that he’s arrogant and self absorbed. He’s 76 and not going to change. I’m younger but was happy before I met him and will always have the loves of my life....my kitties. I’ll let y’all know what I decide after I figure it out. My grandchildren will be a welcome distraction. Again my thanks for your concern. 

[aradia22]

@Mindthinkr 76!?! Oh, honey, drop his ass.

[Mindthinkr]

3 minutes ago, aradia22 said:

@Mindthinkr 76!?! Oh, honey, drop his ass.

That’s what my brother’s first reaction was.  I’m in my low 60’s but have kept my figure (still wear the same sizes I wore in High School) and do not feel that I need a man for happiness. I’m just so disappointed. Ah well. 

[emma675]

Mindthinkr,  we love you and you can do better! Don't let his cranky old ass bring you down, you deserve happiness.

[theredhead77]

4 hours ago, Mindthinkr said:

My many thanks to all of you for your thoughtful replies. I cancelled a date we were supposed to have tonight and tomorrow am going up to my daughter’s overnight. I plan to use the time to reflect about what happened. Now I’m fighting a bit of depression. Some from what he said, some from the bubbles being burst and as much as I’d like to ignore some red flags I just can’t. I was on the phone last night with a girlfriend who has met him (her boyfriend too). They didn’t want to hurt me but have felt that he’s arrogant and self absorbed. He’s 76 and not going to change. I’m younger but was happy before I met him and will always have the loves of my life....my kitties. I’ll let y’all know what I decide after I figure it out. My grandchildren will be a welcome distraction. Again my thanks for your concern. 

I'm sorry you have to deal with this. You're right, at 76 he isn't going to change and frankly at 76, not even giving you a token Christmas gift is a calculated move.

I hope your time with your family helps provide some perspective and clarity.

[AgentRXS]

@Mindthinkr I know it hurts but at least you only invested 6 months into him. If he's acting like that in what should still be considered the "honeymoon" stage, then you know there are only worse things that lie ahead as more of his true self comes out. There have got to be better fish in the sea than him.

[Mindthinkr]

11 hours ago, AgentRXS said:

 

@Mindthinkr I know it hurts but at least you only invested 6 months

 

Actually it’s been since June of last summer. Going on 8 months.  Hence why I’ve was so stunned at the holidays. That might’ve been why I got so depressed (upset?) over Christmas and refused to see anyone. He was with his kids. I have to figure out a slow exit plan. The good news is most people around here never got a clue that we’re dating and I don’t want him out there  spewing negativity about me so I’m slowly backing up. I was warned by one of you fellow posters but didn’t think it would turn out this way. I went to talk to him a little bit last night (the date out was canceled) and he went on about his day and it really sunk into me how self centered he is, although he did notice that I was “pallid”. I just couldn’t open up. Futile. I d like to work this out because he has so many strong good points but a controller...don’t think that I have the stomach for that. I think I figured out what got him over the top the other night but I don’t think that it’s the kind of detail I should just put out here. Up to my daughter’ Later today. It will be fun. I need the distraction. 

[DeLurker]

Speaking for myself, anyone who falls into the category of "controller" is straight out Don't.  A controlling person implies being rigid and possibly manipulative/punitive when you don't see things their way.

Frankly, he's too old to change his ways.  Even if he is motivated to try, I think the probability of meaningful success is very low.  As we become older, I think I've read that we kind of get distilled down to more of the essence of who we are.  Our choices are more deliberate - how we spend our time, how we treat others, we lose/drop some of the filters that were needed in society and the workplace....

Look what this already cost you - you say you refused to see anyone over Christmas.  So spending the holiday season without friends and family because you were upset & depressed (I don't think that is an either or situation) was taken away from you.  If one of your friends or family had been in your shoes, what would you advise them?  I'm guessing you would have encouraged them to not punish themselves and come out with you to a holiday gathering or spend it with you indulging in a pizza and movie binge.

I know this is a sucky situation for you and I am sorry for that.  Put yourself first - he's shown that he can take of himself (and will).

Edited January 24, 2018 by DeLurker

[JTMacc99]

I've been sitting around lately thinking that I do kind of miss the company of another person. There's just something about being with a person, touching another person, sharing, all of that crap, that makes you feel whole. 

And then I read this:

On 1/22/2018 at 9:45 PM, Mindthinkr said:

Ok. First time venting on this thread. I’ve been dating a guy, who I thought was wonderful, until last night. He had a bit to drink (too much IMO) and told me that he was thinking of breaking up with me.

And how quickly I remember that in order to get all of the things I mentioned above, it means I have to get involved with another person. And people suck sometimes. 

@Mindthinkr, I've read everything you've said here, and everything said to you. My take on it all didn't have to get past "had a bit too much to drink and told me he was thinking of breaking up with me." 

It takes everything you've invested in the relationship and devalues it. It's the end of trust between you. It's just horrible. I am very sorry to hear it, and I hope you are able to move forward with as little pain as possible.

[film noire]

@Mindthinkr - you're a smart & funny presence just online, so I can only imagine how special you are in the real world -- imo (for what it's worth) your real Xmas gift was the universe telling you to walk away from a black hole of a man so 2018 can open up & unfold for you. 

Edited January 29, 2018 by film noire

[DisneyBoy]

We all get lied to. It's a part of life and you can eventually distance yourself from the liars once you've figured out their game.

 

...I can't. At least not in this situation and it's extremely stressful. Have to keep this vague, sorry, but I'm finding out that a lot of the people around me are lying to my face to keep me out of the loop. It's not a social situation or even a work situation where I could conceivably quit. Again, have to be vague.

 

Here's my question: once you've tested people by asking them a question you already know the answer to and they lie - and not just lie but lie so incredibly convincingly that you start to doubt your own sanity even though you know 200% what the real answer is and that they also know said answer - how do you handle it? Do you just try and maintain the facade of ignorance for the sake of getting through the situation and act like you believe them and are none the wiser? Do you call them out? Do you bide your time and then call them out once you are safely able?

 

I'm stuck dealing with these folks and I understand why they would lie (self interests) but I am deeply upset. Upset to be lied to. Upset that this is what people do to each other. Upset by being forced to hold in my outrage. Upset that they think I would be fooled indefinitely. Spit in my face, but don't smile like a snake and lie to me, repeatedly.

 

Need some help guys and gals. Tell me how you deal with this. How have you navigated this kind of situation?

 

I can't get away from these people and calling them out won't help. I feel like I have to just swallow it. Thanks.

[MrSmith]

I don't know how much help I can be, since I sometimes (some would argue "often") have all the subtlety of a 2-by-4 to the face. Personally, I can't stand liars. My approach would be to box them in by getting them to lie to me when there are lots of witnesses, then present them with irrefutable proof that they are lying. My main aims would be these:

1. Make public the fact they are lying
2. Have as many people as possible see that I caught them out
3. Politely and professionally serve them as much public humiliation and cost them as much "face" as possible.

The hope would be that they can serve as an object lesson to anyone else lying to you that doing so is not in their best interests.

Anyway, take my advice with as much or as little salt as you are inclined, especially since my approach is sometimes not the best one.

Edited March 5, 2018 by MrSmith
"in ... box them in!"

[AgentRXS]

10 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

Here's my question: once you've tested people by asking them a question you already know the answer to and they lie - and not just lie but lie so incredibly convincingly that you start to doubt your own sanity even though you know 200% what the real answer is and that they also know said answer - how do you handle it? Do you just try and maintain the facade of ignorance for the sake of getting through the situation and act like you believe them and are none the wiser? Do you call them out? Do you bide your time and then call them out once you are safely able?

It depends on how much the lie matters to you and how much you care about maintaining a relationship with the person in question.  I've feigned ignorance and pretended to accept the lie before, but it always backfires on me because I'm the type of person who would dwell on it and let if affect me until I eventually blow up and call them out on it anyway.  If you can't cut the person out of your life, its just best to try to approach them calmly and rationally to expose their lie. Try to remain matter-of-fact and emotionless. If you think that you would be placing yourself in danger by confronting them, then bide your time and waiting until your safe to do so.

[DeLurker]

10 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

I'm stuck dealing with these folks and I understand why they would lie (self interests) but I am deeply upset. Upset to be lied to. Upset that this is what people do to each other. Upset by being forced to hold in my outrage. Upset that they think I would be fooled indefinitely. Spit in my face, but don't smile like a snake and lie to me, repeatedly.

<snip>

I can't get away from these people and calling them out won't help. I feel like I have to just swallow it. Thanks.

I'm sorry that you are dealing with this but good that you recognize how upsetting this is to you.  It sounds like you are well past the point of not addressing it and continue to be forced to put on a happy face.

From a practical point of view, are they lying about anything of real consequence?  And are they only lying to you or is this just who these people are?  What do you anticipate the reaction would be if you called it out, calmly or otherwise?

Or when they tell you something you know or suspect might be untruthful, scream LIAR!  a la Carole Kane in the Princess Bride.  I actually use a real life lie one of my brother's told me (when we were kids) as justification for fact checking him on important issues because he was a "known liar".  It was said in humor, but I absolutely meant it and did in fact follow up with someone to make sure he did what he said he was going to do.  I may have screamed LIAR! at him too in the past.