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S06.E15: Doppelganger


scarynikki12
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(edited)

The good: Olicity, Delicity, OTA + Thea, Oliver + Thea's conversation, Thea suiting up as Speedy, Thea + Roy

The "dear god no": Black Siren (Pretending to be LL would've made sense earlier in the season. Or if, you know, a doctor hadn't pronounced her dead and did an autopsy, and her body wasn't in the ground.), Diaz

The "I don't get this": Diggle wanting to be GA. I don't think he knows why he wants it. It's stupid. 

The "let them talk!": Felicity and Thea were standing together at one point when Oliver and Diggle returned to the bunker. Let those two actually have a conversation! One of the EPs (MG?) gave an excuse why they didn't talk in the earlier seasons. (It was lame.) There is zero excuse now. 

Edited by insomniadreams88
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Anyone else think Oliver is playing Siren? I feel like he was so against her, and that turn around was odd even for him. Hopefully, Felicity has rubbed off on him and he's getting smarter about people. Now, I want another Felicity/Siren face off because 5x10 was fun. So far, Felicity doesn't seem to buy any of Siren's shit and I really enjoy her reactions.

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Something I thought hilarious in the images set underneath Oliver's opening monologue.  When he says he came back with one goal, to save the city, the image shown on screen, aka the thing he is saving the city from, is Oliver as GA holding an arrow to Rene's throat, lol.  

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I actually liked this episode. 

KC was on motha-fing point. Black Siren pretending to be E1 Laurel is the sort of fun I need in my life with this show right now. I loved every minute of it. Now I don't need her to be full on good guy, I just want her to be more Catwoman if anything. She looks out for herself, works with the good guys, work with the bad guys, has a couple of cats....But they've made her far more interesting then they did the first half of the season so im at least somewhat grateful for that.

We didn't see much of Roy but I was happy to see him again, it felt like old times and was very refreshing. Plus this led Thea to be Speedy again which gave me even more nostalgia for S1-4, she should've suited up a long time ago instead of waiting. 

Not having NTA really do anything in this episode was nice but also makes them look bad (shocker) since what? Are they not going to fight crime while Rene is away? Are they not going to do anything until they can have a go at Black Siren again?

This did prove that they just need to cut at least 2 people from the show and from TA. 3 in the field, 1 on the comms is a good combo. They could do 4 and be pushing it a little but its a lot better then 5/6 in the field. 

Dragon finally gets something to do that was nice but it took to damn long. We should've been privvy to this 10 episodes ago. Why Siren so gleefully works for him doesnt make that much sense, she knows how this goes, she teams up with a big bad and then they die and she gets sent to jail. At least this way she can continue to play the Laurel card and be safe from the people who want to lock her up. Plus why should she be afraid? Just kill him with a Sirens kiss. 

Siren bringing up E2 Thea makes me yearn once again to see flashbacks of Siren and the other E2 Arrow casts! GIVE IT TO ME
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Oh, wow, Laurel is playing Oliver. No effing way, you guys.

At least we have a nice moment with Roy returning and Thea welcoming him back. But this is Arrow, so of course she’s going to be in deep shit next episode. Even in death, Malcolm Merlyn continues to be an asshole.

Diaz isn’t that compelling as a Big Bad. Like he’s trying to channel Al Pacino. Why can’t Anatoly cap him? I know he’s not physical and he doesn’t use magic, but Anatoly would’ve been better after Cayden got killed.

Hey, there’s the Wild Pup! Y’know, the girl Rene sold out Oliver for. But that turns out to be moot. Great, we could’ve had deep simmering between factions of Team Arrow, as opposed to total separation.

Seriously, so over Laurel. She’s the Grant Ward of the Arrowverse. We’re never going to be rid of her. I will admit that appearing back from the dead was a ballsy move. I mean, if that CSI in a Central City could have his conviction overturned because his “victim” wasn’t dead, then anything is possible! That said, if Ollie were to go “Fuck it,” have Barry rush her to STAR Labs, and Cisco sends her back to Earth-2 . . . that would be for the best.

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1 minute ago, JJ928 said:

Anyone else think Oliver is playing Siren? I feel like he was so against her, and that turn around was odd even for him. Hopefully, Felicity has rubbed off on him and he's getting smarter about people. Now, I want another Felicity/Siren face off because 5x10 was fun. So far, Felicity doesn't seem to buy any of Siren's shit and I really enjoy her reactions.

I'd love to believe that Oliver doesn't have a case of the plot stupids here, but this show makes its living on plot stupids, so...

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3 minutes ago, JJ928 said:

Anyone else think Oliver is playing Siren? I feel like he was so against her, and that turn around was odd even for him. Hopefully, Felicity has rubbed off on him and he's getting smarter about people. Now, I want another Felicity/Siren face off because 5x10 was fun. So far, Felicity doesn't seem to buy any of Siren's shit and I really enjoy her reactions.

I want to believe this because I also thought the turnaround was abrupt but IDK if he is. Sigh.

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I feel like the Roy and Thea and OTA stuff was really good and solid but there was a radical tone departure that doesn't fit with the episodes that came before.  No way that Dinah is that calm.  No way that the team is that chill about letting BS play LL.  No way would Dinah and Quentin be getting along that well.  And they might as well have reintroduced Diaz cause this guy and the 3D printer king don't seem to resemble each other much except for the mumbling.  I feel like this whole episode came from some other alternate earth.  

I'm going to do an immediate rewatch.  Maybe I was just off because I was rushing to try and catch up with the live thread (I had to start late due to technical difficulties with my sound).  I don't really know what to make of the episode.  I think it was a lot better than what we've had lately, but it doesn't really feel earned if you know what I mean?

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I don't know if I just flat out loved this episode or if I just enjoyed it so much because it came after last week’s nonsense.

That last scene in the bunker almost made me cry happy tears. That is Team Arrow, and I will not accept any substitutes. (Although I will always, always accept OTA on their own.)

Oh, but speaking of OTA, there’s a bit of a disturbance in the force. I need someone to explain to me like I’m 5 what Diggle’s deal was tonight. He’s a vigilante and a vital member of the team. He helps save the city every night. I’m so confused why it’s so important to him to be the Green Arrow instead of Spartan. Is he that desperate to be running things? Because this seems really out of character. I know he enjoyed being GA at the beginning of the season, but that doesn’t feel like an adequate explanation for whatever’s going on with him now. I almost feel like he going to Single White Female Oliver and it’s making me nervous.

On the other hand, if Diggle being GA leaves Oliver free for sexy times with Felicity . . . Was I the only one who wanted them to sex each other up right there in the bunker? The Olicity chemistry is so insane. Just letting them touch each other makes everything better. They should have tried that trick last week.

LMAO at Siren thinking Oliver believes she’s gonna make an honest go at being “good.” She thinks she’s playing Oliver, but she’s just playing herself. And I got whiplash from Quentin knowing BS is a lying liar who lies and then still holding out hope that she could grown into being his Laurel. What is his damage?

Finally, no Rene, minimal Curtis, and Oliver telling Dinah he’d rather be shorthanded than take her out in the field was like a balm to my soul. I’m gonna need a lot more of Oliver making it clear to them how much they suck. He’s taken and taken and taken for this last few episodes, and it’s time for him to start giving back in spades.

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9 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Something I thought hilarious in the images set underneath Oliver's opening monologue.  When he says he came back with one goal, to save the city, the image shown on screen, aka the thing he is saving the city from, is Oliver as GA holding an arrow to Rene's throat, lol.  

I didn't even notice that until you mentioned it, but it's really interesting that they added scenes of him in conflict with NTA to the opening. I'm afraid to get my hopes up that it's a sign that getting rid of those assholes is part of Oliver's new mission.

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This was more watchable than this civil war crap we've been force-fed for weeks but IDK, still not the best? BS does nothing for me so I don't really care about her and that whole weird vibe with her and Dragon creeped me out. Plus the acting in that first scene? BAD. SO BAD.

I also hate the fact that Quentin still wants to make her Laurel and now Oliver is giving her a chance. I hate it when they make him dumb. Noooooooo. We were doing so well!

I enjoyed all the Thea stuff and it makes me sad that they wasted her for so long. Her with OTA makes sense and felt great to watch. 

The Olicity scenes, though brief, were lovely. Their chemistry is so great IDK why they're wasting it. It's frustrating because they're married, I'd like to see them more...married, you know? I did LOVE LOVE LOVE what Oliver said to Thea about how Felicity has changed his life and he wants Thea to have that same happiness. My shipper heart.

I do not understand why Diggle is so hellbent on being Green Arrow when he basically does the same thing as Spartan just without arrows. It's not making any sense to me so I hope they explore that in his ep soon.

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6 minutes ago, KenyaJ said:

LMAO at Siren thinking Oliver believes she’s gonna make an honest go at being “good.” She thinks she’s playing Oliver, but she’s just playing herself. And I got whiplash from Quentin knowing BS is a lying liar who lies and then still holding out hope that she could grown into being his Laurel. What is his damage?

 

Brain damage. It's the only explanation. 

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I feel like this Siren arc may end with Lance's death. You know she's gonna fool him into thinking she's changing, and then breaking his heart when he figures shit out.

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"I don't know how but this is really, really bad." - Felicity as she was watching "Laurel's" "acting"

Hahahahaha.... Yeah, she's marginally better as BS but I'm still gonna go ahead and take this as a meta statement by the show about the actual acting of KC.

EG7bQ.gif

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Not that I'm against it, but isn't Roy too sore for sex?

When the woman at the end took off her hood, I thought it was Evelyn.  That's what you get for dark lighting everything.

Overall, it was worse than I had hoped it would be.  I"m really glad that Roy is back but too much of the time he was tied up having to get punched or listen to the villains monologue.

It was great to see Thea suit up again. What a waste, sidelining her for the n00bs. And I liked the Rene-freeness of the episode and no NTA.

It was a good episode for KC as Black Siren too. It's too bad they resisted writing Laurel as this for 5 seasons because this is her sparking.

But overall, I found the episode kind of boring. Not enough Roy and Thea action, too much Diaz and trying to be clever.

6 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

This did prove that they just need to cut at least 2 people from the show and from TA. 3 in the field, 1 on the comms is a good combo. They could do 4 and be pushing it a little but its a lot better then 5/6 in the field. 

We established that in s2. Why does the show keep having to re-learn it?

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Couldn't Oliver just get Barry to show up in costume and say, yeah, no, that's not LL but her evil twin that tried to destroy Central City a couple years ago, shortly after LL died?  And then connect her to the person killing people in Star City via scream for the last few months?  How hard is this?  

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5 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Couldn't Oliver just get Barry to show up in costume and say, yeah, no, that's not LL but her evil twin that tried to destroy Central City a couple years ago, shortly after LL died?  And then connect her to the person killing people in Star City via scream for the last few months?  How hard is this?  

Why can't Flash just zoom in and take out Dragon? 

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10 minutes ago, JJ928 said:

I feel like this Siren arc may end with Lance's death. You know she's gonna fool him into thinking she's changing, and then breaking his heart when he figures shit out.

I still want Lance on screen and freed from the crazy but I'm starting to think this might happen.  

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(edited)

This is an episode written by Speed Weed.  I have issues with some of how it was written, but I really like how they managed to make a lot happen in a short time while not making it feel like the scenes were ridiculously rushed.  Lots of locations and sets used, not to mention extras and support characters too.  

Edited by BkWurm1
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Injuries in this show just do not make sense. Roy has just gotten beat to hell and should be in the hospital but instead he is having sex. Laurel had an amateur operate on her and should be in the hospital longer then a milisecond recovering. The wound is clearly still bothering her.

We have to people back who are suppose to be dead and the media outlets are barely paying attention, the city council is just sitting back twiddling their thumbs. If the city needs money Id be advertising the hell out of it. "Come to Star City, where you never die!"

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5 minutes ago, Soulfire said:

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OMG they are talking into each other's mouths with their faces touching! Let this poor couple have their dessert!!!!!!!

SA & EBR have insane onscreen chemistry! They need to do a Hallmark movie together when Arrow is over! Pretty please??????

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(edited)

I did enjoy BS ripping on LL's "style".   I was never terribly impressed, lol.  

Dinah just patiently watching and waiting on the other side of the window is so jarring compared to last week.  And per the show's timeline, this happened what...Yesterday?  I prefer this level of emotion from her but it doesn't match last week at all. 

I really need someone to figure out how much time has passed since we got back from the first winter hiatus.  I feel like only a couple days have gone by in the last three weeks. 

Edited by BkWurm1
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@BkWurm1 There will always be a part of me that wants Lance to prosper because I like Paul. I just don't know what they're doing with him, everything leads me to think death. Even though he's been extra cray this season, I'll miss him if he goes. Still, I'd keep Thea over him if I had to chose.

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(edited)

Olicity is both hot and sweet. More please. 

I mostly enjoyed this ep. I loved having Speedy back on the team and seeing Roy. There's such a stark difference between how I feel about Roy and how I feel about NTA. Did Zoe say the babysitter had left 2 hours ago? She seems old enough to be at home alone (wait, how old is Zoey?) but what horrible fellow NTA people are Dinah and/or Curtis that no one immediately thought to go be with her. Curtis strolled up to the door, no hurry. 

Whatever. I should be praising TPTB for the lack of NTA. I did like and want more of Oliver dismissing NTA and telling them they aren't trusted. 

DDDragon is a less scary villain. And maybe try a normal volume voice once in a while. 

I've given up trying to figure out Quentin's problem. He flipped and flopped back in forth so much in this ep he must have whiplash. 

Edited by calliope1975
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Something that REALLY bugs me.  Dinah gives Lance the speech about how BS is not his Laurel at the hospital.  But Dinah is the one that convinced Lance to hide and cover up shooting BS because it would be too hard for anyone to find out that he'd basically killed his daughter. I feel like SHE'S the one that brainwashed Lance into seeing his Laurel and this Laurel as the same person in the first place by insisting he had something to feel guilty about.  Grr.  

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I'm a little concerned at how many times I've rewatched Oliver telling Dinah she was persona non grata on the mission to get Roy. Her face just completely cracks. It's one time where I have absolutely no complaints about JH's acting. Intention or not, it was perfect.

 

2 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I did enjoy BS ripping on LL's "style".   I was never terribly impress, lol.  

Oh yeah. Regardless of my antipathy towards the character, it always bugged me that her wardrobe was so lackluster. Even bad characters deserve good clothes.

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(edited)

I love that Thea was so good and competent as Speedy in this episode but I also was surprised.  I guess if she wasn't in top form the LoA gal wouldn't be as interesting in making her live up to her legacy.  

I really missed her on the team.  It's a pity they couldn't have given all her Mayor stuff to Quentin and left her in the field but then the newbs wouldn't have been needed.  Oh, what could have been.

Thea and Roy were so sweet.  I love her just laying a kiss on him right away.  

I really like the new SCPD set.  Pity they gave it to Dinah.  

At the halfway point of the episode, Oliver tells Lance and Dinah about the depth of corruption in the ranks and tells her she needs to put her vendetta on hold while they figure out who can be trusted.  It's a pity that came so late in the episode since it would have explained the tonal shift in Dinah's behavior. 

I would really like to know how the hell Diaz knows what he knows.  I can buy into knowing Team Arrow's ID's but how did anyone find out about Roy?  Let alone where he was.  I'm almost hoping at this point that DDDragon found Chase's diary.  

Edited by BkWurm1
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I'm really hoping that if Roy and Thea are leaving that it's a big setup for them to join the Titans. Either that or one of them joins the Legends (preferably Roy just so we can see a Kid Flash/Arsenal team up)

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(edited)

I'm annoyed the whole 'you didn't sell us out' moment apparently makes up for the dozens BS has murdered. SA looked so over their scenes. Lol

3D Dick is awful. I miss Cayden James.

I felt like Oliver should have told Thea to find Roy a long time ago. 

I'm so confused by Diggle. It almost makes me angry. I hate this whole Diggle envy Hood storyline. 

Needed more Felicity. More Olicity. I just need so much more Olicity. 

Edited by Chaser
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(edited)

First time I watched this episode I thought that BS was getting threatened into staying and helping Diaz which made no sense to me. The second time through I realizes she actually was into helping because she likes the idea of controlling the city.  Don't know why she changed her mind, but she's the one that initiated getting more up close and personal with Diaz in that creepy scene where he touched her face.  She's into it.   Blech.    

About Diggle harping on being the GA.  I wonder if it's not so much that he needs to be the GA but he needs to get the question of who is going to be the GA settled.  Even Felicity thinks Oliver being back is temporary.  Maybe that's the real issue, Diggle thinking that Oliver thinks he can't handle taking over anymore?  Maybe he's worried Oliver doesn't think he can cut it and that is why Oliver is sticking around rather than that Oliver has changed his mind and wants to stick around.  

Edited by BkWurm1
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Yeah, this Diggle storyline is not making any sense and he actually came across a little petulant, like a little kid. "I want my hood back, gimme!" IDK what they're doing here. Did this really come about because of that dumbass alien delusion? Just when I couldn't hate the 100th more.

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Well, miles better then last week at least, but still basically settling for general competency, with a few annoying moments.

Best part was easily the lack of the Noobs.  No Rene (outside the hilarious inadvertent moment in the opening act when they showed Oliver putting an arrow to his throat last week if his "save the city" narration.  He truly is the biggest threat to this show!), barely any Curtis, and Dinah was mainly on her best behavior.  I approve!

So, the good news for Oliver is that Cayden's death has torpedoed Rene's testimony against him, but the bad news is that this has led to Diaz hunting down Roy and trying to force him to testify.  But thankfully he is saved thanks to Thea becoming Speedy again!  It's really bad pathetic how poorly used Willa Holland has been this season, and I'm glad she got to go back out in the field, and add her dynamic to the team.  Of course, this is all likely some big set-up since "Laurel" is still working for Diaz, but I'm glad they got Roy back.

So, with Cayden gone, now its Diaz's turn to give all these big dramatic speeches and monologues.  Sorry, Kirk Acevedo, I still like you as an actor, but you really are stuck in Michael Emerson's shadows when it comes to that department.  But I still think my main issue is that I would find this way more interesting if Anatoly was the big baddie, due to the history between him and Oliver, David Nykl's awesomeness, and just generally being a better character.

Diggle's now getting upset about no longer being the Green Arrow?

Whelp, I'm certainly looking forward to the next episode at least since one of my favorites is returning!

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(edited)

The episode was actually much better than I thought. Not great or even up to par, but I was surprised with how quickly the BS stuff was shuffled by to get back to the Diaz/Roy stuff, which was way more interesting anyway. At first I actually didn't mind Diaz, but now he's officially passed into confusion for me. How or why is he doing all of these things?

Also, I'm guessing Diggle's issues were set-up for

Spoiler

his episode in 617, "Brothers in Arms." Just like how they were setting up 616 with Thea and Roy.

Edited by way2interested
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1 minute ago, BkWurm1 said:

First time I watched this episode I thought that BS was getting threatened into staying and helping Diaz which made no sense to me. The second time through I realizes she actually was into helping because she likes the idea of controlling the city.  Don't know why she changed her mind, but she's the one that initiated getting more up close and personal with Diaz in that creepy scene where he touched her face.  She's into it.   Blech.    

She was into it. And that expression when she read Diaz's text was not ambiguous. No clue what Reddit dude was watching. 

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10 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I would really like to know how the hell Diaz knows what he knows.  I can buy into knowing Team Arrow's ID's but how did anyone find out about Roy?  Let alone where he was.  I'm almost hoping at this point that DDDragon found Chase's diary.  

I can only accept my headcannon of Cayden James having planned on getting to Roy and just never got around to it so Dragon picked it up.

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What was the point of DDDragon bringing Roy to the casino?  Was it just to make BS look like she was trying to play nice?  Because otherwise, it didn't accomplish anything, did it?  Unless we are supposed to think DDDragon threatening Thea while she's totally free somehow convinced Roy to play on his team?  It's pure crap to even suggest it, but then I'm back to the question of if there was any point to the Roy and Diaz scenes at all?

 

And despite what they said about even with Roy being missing it not changing the case against him, it really does.  If there is no testimony, there is no conviction.  

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There was no sense in the "kidnapping and beating up Roy" plot.  If the "info from a bad guy" ruling that Jean Loring pulled in the opening scene applies, it should apply to Roy too.  And no matter how much they beat him up, as soon as he gets on the stand, he can say that he only said that Oliver is the Green Arrow because he was being tortured.

20 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

First time I watched this episode I thought that BS was getting threatened into staying and helping Diaz which made no sense to me. The second time through I realizes she actually was into helping because she likes the idea of controlling the city.  Don't know why she changed her mind, but she's the one that initiated getting more up close and personal with Diaz in that creepy scene where he touched her face.  She's into it.   Blech.   

This does make sense though.  She likes killing, she likes torture, and pretending to be on Quentin's and OTA's side is going to kill them when they find out how she's double crossing them.

The part that's hardest to believe that 3-D is smart enough to cause all the pain that Oliver said he did over the last six months.

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I watched this with my sister. She noticed in one scene that when GA sitcan arriw he didn’t reach his arm back for an arrow. 

 

I liked that in that fight that team Arrow kept pulling the arrows out of the bad guys. Loved that. 

 

The female police captain made a mistake but I can’t think of it right now. 

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(edited)

I adored that little moment when Dinah is all grudgingly offering her help to rescue Roy and Oliver just says no.  Her surprise is delicious.  He's not supposed to be the one saying no, lol.  Only the NTA is supposed to have a reason not to want to work with the OTA.  Oh, Dinah, that's not the way this works.  No one is waiting around for you guys to come back. Especially Oliver.  

Cracked me up all over again on the rewatch when Roy gets hoisted up on some thug's shoulder and carted away.  Can he not walk?  I wonder if the reality was that CH isn't in this scene and that's his stand in so they couldn't show his face.  

"I love it when you visit me Mr. Mayor.  I love it even more when you leave."  Diaz was this close to raving about Oliver's butt, wasn't he.  :D

Edited by BkWurm1
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(edited)
14 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

There was no sense in the "kidnapping and beating up Roy" plot.  If the "info from a bad guy" ruling that Jean Loring pulled in the opening scene applies, it should apply to Roy too.  And no matter how much they beat him up, as soon as he gets on the stand, he can say that he only said that Oliver is the Green Arrow because he was being tortured.

Yeah, I was momentarily excited by Jean's mention of Brady v. Maryland because the show got a legal thing right, and that was exciting. But the DA would be better off using Mickey Mouse as his star witness than Roy. Roy would be the most impeachable witness ever. Jean should have pretended to be upset in front of the judge and then danced a jig as soon as she left his office.

Edited by KenyaJ
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