S04.E02: Blue Bloody

[AllyB]

19 hours ago, Diapason Untuned said:

Rather than a bad or good route, I feel it's more of an inevitable route, considering the premise. The more zombies were revealed existing, the more implausible it becomes that they could remain undetected forever. Eventually the secret would have to come out. I actually applaud the show for taking the premise to the logical conclusion.

But that was a premise they deliberately wrote themselves into, in order to justify the reveal. The whole arc of S3 was building to a reveal in the finale. It was only inevitable because that's the story they chose to tell. Though I have my suspicions about why they chose to tell it because they aren't really exploring this new universe in any interesting ways. They have this huge reveal but then continue on as a m.o.w. procedural instead of really exploring just how different the entire world would be now. And seeing as how FG's Z-day plan was forced into action way ahead of schedule it would make good story telling to see just how out of control it is because they were nowhere near prepared. Instead we're getting scene after scene of "hilarious" Liv on brains shenanigans at the expense of good storytelling and characterisation. It just seems to me like iZombie is the latest series to try and cash in on the success of True Blood by having a 'monsters out of the closet' story without actually knowing what it wants to achieve.

[Cthulhudrew]

On 3/5/2018 at 10:06 PM, HunterHunted said:

Liv used to try to fight the influence of the brains more.

If the writers are actually going somewhere with this, and Liv is deliberately not trying to hold on to her own personality, then I'd say kudos to the team. Unfortunately, I suspect this is just a case of writers deciding they really like having Liv be wacky each week, and completely writing the main character out of her own story in favor of hijinks.

On 3/6/2018 at 4:11 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Loved how Vampire Steve gave Clive this long explanation about how difficult it would be to crack the safe code and what his gadget was and all he got back was, "Don't care. Just open it."

Could Vampire Steve have gotten the tech he needed to make his gizmo from the Russians? Because we still don't know who the murderer was from "20 Sided Die". And no, I'm not going to stop mentioning that until they deal with it. Dangit!

[Affogato]

8 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

 

Could Vampire Steve have gotten the tech he needed to make his gizmo from the Russians? Because we still don't know who the murderer was from "20 Sided Die". And no, I'm not going to stop mentioning that until they deal with it. Dangit!

I think they dumped that storyline with the RL reveal of how vulnerable the grid is to sabotage, which came out immediately after the episode. 

[Thrifty]

8 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

If the writers are actually going somewhere with this, and Liv is deliberately not trying to hold on to her own personality, then I'd say kudos to the team. Unfortunately, I suspect this is just a case of writers deciding they really like having Liv be wacky each week, and completely writing the main character out of her own story in favor of hijinks.

I would love it if there were an in-universe reason for this that was addressed.  I would love to see the other characters call her out on this.  Like, what if the increasing domination of the brains were due to prolonged consumption of brains?  You are right though, that this is unlikely.  That explanation doesn't hold up well to the fact that Ravi himself is doing much of the same thing after barely eating brains for a few months.

[Affogato]

21 minutes ago, Thrifty said:

I would love it if there were an in-universe reason for this that was addressed.  I would love to see the other characters call her out on this.  Like, what if the increasing domination of the brains were due to prolonged consumption of brains?  You are right though, that this is unlikely.  That explanation doesn't hold up well to the fact that Ravi himself is doing much of the same thing after barely eating brains for a few months.

I seem to remember that last season there was in show  explanation for her seemingly OOC behavior because she was guilty about Drake. I expected it to ease off with her self realization, not double down.

Edited March 9, 2018 by Affogato

[dcalley]

I gave my brain a decent chance to come up with the actress who played Renegade, but I ended up having to cheat and look at IMDB. Anyway, Dawnn Lewis, from A Different World!

[dubbel zout]

I wonder if we'll see more of Renegade, because Dawnn Lewis seems a big enough get to merit more episodes.

[twoods]

I hope so because she was awesome, and I find the storyline with these people who are getting people out of the city much more intriguing than the cult one. How has Blaine not found out about his crazy father? 

[Affogato]

4 hours ago, twoods said:

I hope so because she was awesome, and I find the storyline with these people who are getting people out of the city much more intriguing than the cult one. How has Blaine not found out about his crazy father? 

Third ep is the right time for Blaine to find out. Pacing. Also I’m guessing everyone knows next episode. Maybe Fillmore tells Blaine and his position as street info guy is discredited. Blaine is tasked with getting dad onboard. Hijinks. 

Edited March 11, 2018 by Affogato

[Clanstarling]

On 3/5/2018 at 9:39 PM, thuganomics85 said:

Totally knew the killer was going to be Hoshi... err, I mean, Linda Park's character.

Thank you - I could not place her.

On 3/6/2018 at 5:15 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

At least one FG employee is aware -- the guy providing black market brains was there and escaped the attack on the black market. Now what he does with this information remains to be seen. 

....

We don't know what FG central knows about Angus's cult. We did have the one FG soldier who now knows. I think a bigger question is what Blaine knows. Has he been back to the well to feed Angus? Has he missed the big dummy who freed him? Has he heard any street chatter about this zombie cult?

Given he was (it seems) the primary driver behind the black market brains, I don't see him telling Fillmore Graves anything at all.

On 3/6/2018 at 9:39 AM, Thrifty said:

It's a real bitter irony that the humans opposing Fillmore-Graves are called terrorists in the show.

It's the irony of history - freedom fighters vs terrorists - it depends on perspective, and the ultimate designation depends on the outcome of the cause.

On 3/6/2018 at 4:30 PM, AllyB said:

 And instead we get the ever increasingly wacky Liv on brains. In earlier seasons, she was Liv under the influence of a different personality with Liv being self-aware and either enjoying or being frustrated by her personality changes. She was different but still essentially Liv at her core. But now it's just Liv's body hosting an oblivious caricature of a totally different person. It's crappy and done for laughs that don't come now because it's all laid on too thick.

I'm not out. Yet. This show was so so very excellent in the past and I'm hoping against hope that it will recapture that but I'd say I'll be waiting in vain based on this week's episode.

I'm THIS close to being out, mostly due to what they're doing with Liv on brains. Now she seems to be going out and buying a new wardrobe (or at least a few pieces) with each new brain, and feeling aches that aren't part of her body. It's like she's on Blue Brain, but functioning, sort of. I don't find it amusing, just irritating.

On 3/7/2018 at 8:47 AM, Thrifty said:

That sounds like a terribly dangerous game to play.  To let police, or even civilians purporting to be witnesses, invent their own evidence like that.  At least with an eyewitness account, you would have to establish you were there to see the crime, and this can be disproven.  You can have a zombie vision at any time or place after the fact.  Maybe it would be admissible, but it strikes me as extremely poor quality evidence.

Eyewitness statements are unreliable - you can be there and see (or not see) something completely different than what actually happened. There was a video that went around some years back showing a basketball game. At some point, a man in a gorilla suit joined in. Most people (myself included) did not notice him until they pointed it out. So it seems to me that brain visions would be pretty much on the same level - at least in a judicial system run by zombies.

On 3/7/2018 at 2:56 PM, Affogato said:

Is it scientifically accepted, though? By Ravi? Who has published in the field of zombie? People talk like this is a known area. It’s fillmores secret whatever they’ve done, Rager’s secret whatever they did, and Ravi and Liv. 

In New Seattle, I'd think the zombies, at least, would take it as a given, whether or not outside scientists know about it. So eventually, I think it would become a standard judicial tool. The visions in this case weren't strong enough to get more than a warrant, but that's not to say there wouldn't be those that witnessed a crime in progress.

[Affogato]

18 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

 

In New Seattle, I'd think the zombies, at least, would take it as a given, whether or not outside scientists know about it. So eventually, I think it would become a standard judicial tool. The visions in this case weren't strong enough to get more than a warrant, but that's not to say there wouldn't be those that witnessed a crime in progress.

Liv on brains is getting to me as well. 

So my zombie ex husband says he saw a vision saying I killed my current boyfriend. Oddly there is other evidence saying zombie ex husband killed him. Curiously the remains of the brain in question were all shared with ex husbands friends.

No, the new will was never signed. My vision says he burned it without signing. Yes I am the beneficiary. You can trust me. <smiles>

I suppose it is data but legally admissible? I still say the Supreme Court isn’t looking forward to its first case. 

Edited March 11, 2018 by Affogato

[Chicago Redshirt]

The FG black marketeer can always tell some sort of set of half-truths -- I had a lead on a possible black market for brains and was about to make a bust when all of the sudden I saw a group of zombies attack and I barely escaped. 

He has an incentive to say something because if he doesn't Angus and his crew are going to make everyone terrified to come to wherever the next black market is set up. And it's also possible that they will out him as one of the black market's architects if he doesn't control the narrative. 

[Clanstarling]

3 hours ago, Affogato said:

Liv on brains is getting to me as well. 

So my zombie ex husband says he saw a vision saying I killed my current boyfriend. Oddly there is other evidence saying zombie ex husband killed him. Curiously the remains of the brain in question were all shared with ex husbands friends.

No, the new will was never signed. My vision says he burned it without signing. Yes I am the beneficiary. You can trust me. <smiles>

I suppose it is data but legally admissible? I still say the Supreme Court isn’t looking forward to its first case. 

 

Those are definitely flaws with accepting brain visions as evidence. I like the narrative. :)

Eyewitness testimony is susceptible to similar flaws. John Grisham wrote non-fiction book about a man in Kansas in the 1980's who was convicted and almost executed, the only "real" evidence being that of an eye witness who placed him as the last person to see the woman who was murdered. Turned out, the eye witness was the murderer. It is an incredible tale, and I've never looked at the legal system the same way. If you're interested, check out The Innocent Man

To bring it back on topic, seems like New Seattle won't really be under US/human rule of law, so I'm doubting SCOTUS will be hearing anything (unless they took the vaccine...)

Edited March 11, 2018 by Clanstarling

[tennisgurl]

You know, I will never understand the dickhead humans who exist in stories like this, who want to do nothing other than antagonize the people who clearly have superpowers and could probably rip their heads off instantly. "Yeah, your a super strong zombie/vampire/robot/mutant/alien/whatever and could kick my ass easily, but I think throwing rocks at you as you walk down the street while calling you names is an awesome idea!" Not that I dont think people wouldn't be that stupid and prejudiced, and there are just so many of them in these kinds of stories! 

And this is one of the times when people really do have reason to be pissed at Fillmore Graves! Not reason to be a dick to random zombies minding their own business, but they effeminately have reasons to not be thrilled about the current clusterfuck. I am really not sure where this season is going. I kind of like the idea of zombies going out in the public and dealing with the fallout of that, but it also isn't really the show I signed up for, if that makes sense? I dont think they had run out of steam with "Liv and company solve mysteries while hiding zombies" yet.

[Affogato]

12 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

Those are definitely flaws with accepting brain visions as evidence. I like the narrative. :)

Eyewitness testimony is susceptible to similar flaws. John Grisham wrote non-fiction book about a man in Kansas in the 1980's who was convicted and almost executed, the only "real" evidence being that of an eye witness who placed him as the last person to see the woman who was murdered. Turned out, the eye witness was the murderer. It is an incredible tale, and I've never looked at the legal system the same way. If you're interested, check out The Innocent Man

To bring it back on topic, seems like New Seattle won't really be under US/human rule of law, so I'm doubting SCOTUS will be hearing anything (unless they took the vaccine...)

I’ll look for the book. Thanks. 

Right now I think Fillmore is maintaining martial law as subcontractors for the government. So still human law. 

I’m not really seeing anything working long term. Carey really made too many zombies. 

[Anela]

On March 6, 2018 at 8:14 PM, Chicago Redshirt said:

Maybe I'm just unsentimental or extra selfish, but if my wife, brother, or best friend was a zombie, I would have not a single problem leaving them behind. They're basically dead. I don't want to either be a zombie, a zombie victim, or the victim of a nuke or other weapon of mass destruction. Staying means risking those fates, and risking my love one losing control and eating me or others.

And if I were the zombie, and they were the normal humans, I would surely be telling them to GTFO while they can.

I would love to have my mother back, so I disagree. And Liv's family thought she was acting weird, and were worried about her, but didn't think she was dead. They disappeared, because she refused to do something that would help to save her brother's life. I remember someone saying that they should understand what was going on now - I'd like to see them back, but I doubt we'll get them. 

I hate the way they keep having her and Major break up and make up, then break up again. Just stop. Make up your minds. They were so obviously still in love when he was in danger of dying for good. Either let them have that, or leave them alone. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

18 minutes ago, Anela said:

I would love to have my mother back, so I disagree.

People's mileage would vary. And as someone who just lost his mother a few months ago, I still miss her and would love to have her back as well. But that's not what's at issue, IMO.

The question I was trying to address was: would I as a healthy human voluntarily stay in Seattle, knowing that there's a large chance of being nuked, zombie chow, zombified, deprived of resources, etc. etc., because one of my loved ones had been zombified? Would I stand pat as the government started to put up a wall around the city? Or would I try to leave if I foresaw all those potential dangers and more?

Some people would stay regardless because it's their home or to support their loved one. I personally don't see me doing that.

[Paloma]

17 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

The question I was trying to address was: would I as a healthy human voluntarily stay in Seattle, knowing that there's a large chance of being nuked, zombie chow, zombified, deprived of resources, etc. etc., because one of my loved ones had been zombified? Would I stand pat as the government started to put up a wall around the city? Or would I try to leave if I foresaw all those potential dangers and more?

That is a really good question and one I would like to see the show address, although doing so would risk having the tone go from mostly comic to mostly depressing drama. There could be parallels with both historical (e.g., the Warsaw ghetto) and current (e.g., the Syrian civil war) real-life situations, where the decision to leave an area (if even possible) could mean the difference between life and death for you and your surviving loved ones. 

[Anela]

55 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

People's mileage would vary. And as someone who just lost his mother a few months ago, I still miss her and would love to have her back as well. But that's not what's at issue, IMO.

The question I was trying to address was: would I as a healthy human voluntarily stay in Seattle, knowing that there's a large chance of being nuked, zombie chow, zombified, deprived of resources, etc. etc., because one of my loved ones had been zombified? Would I stand pat as the government started to put up a wall around the city? Or would I try to leave if I foresaw all those potential dangers and more?

Some people would stay regardless because it's their home or to support their loved one. I personally don't see me doing that.

Last season, I asked what was keeping them from just being nuked, and people told me the government would never do that to their own people. 

You see how people love Liv, and Major. If they were like that, I think it would be difficult to leave them, and I would want to keep them safe. The only bad thing here was that the people who placed themselves in charge, were tainting vaccines, turning people into zombies. that's a no-no, but not all of them were in on it. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, Anela said:

Last season, I asked what was keeping them from just being nuked, and people told me the government would never do that to their own people. 

You see how people love Liv, and Major. If they were like that, I think it would be difficult to leave them, and I would want to keep them safe. The only bad thing here was that the people who placed themselves in charge, were tainting vaccines, turning people into zombies. that's a no-no, but not all of them were in on it. 

When I say "nuked," I mean shorthand for using any number of weapons of mass destruction or figurative scorched earth policies. Using an actual nuke would probably be a measure of last resort because there's an environmental toll that would be too harsh. But literally flattening Seattle with bombs, choking off all resources with a blockade, etc etc. -- those are things probably would happen in real life. Maybe less so with iZombieverse zombies, since they can function as people as long as they are sufficiently fed. If we were talking about Walking Dead, Romero-style zombies, I have no doubt that the government would not just quarantine a city if it were the focal point of an outbreak...it would blow it up.

[possibilities]

I think that using the word "zombie" taints the perception of the situation, which is that there is a virus which is creating a set of symptoms in populations exposed through blood or body fluid exchange.

Would we recommend "nuking" San Francisco of NYC because many people there contracted HiV in the 1980s? Should families abandon their loved ones if they contract the virus?

Almost all the zombies were infected against their will. A harsh response is beyond unkind. It strikes me as downright immoral.

[Thrifty]

6 hours ago, possibilities said:

I think that using the word "zombie" taints the perception of the situation, which is that there is a virus which is creating a set of symptoms in populations exposed through blood or body fluid exchange.

Would we recommend "nuking" San Francisco of NYC because many people there contracted HiV in the 1980s? Should families abandon their loved ones if they contract the virus?

Almost all the zombies were infected against their will. A harsh response is beyond unkind. It strikes me as downright immoral.

The comparison is a little faulty because HIV makes people weaker and eventually kills them.  Zombie-ism makes people stronger, more dangerous, and is not fatal.  An untreated zombie turns into a wild animal.  It is a lot like rabies, but due to its non-fatal nature it is not as self limiting.  Also there is no cure or vaccine.  Oh wait, there is a vaccine but the dumbass who invented it is not sharing it with anyone.

HIV also isn't nearly as virulent.

[Affogato]

10 hours ago, Paloma said:

That is a really good question and one I would like to see the show address, although doing so would risk having the tone go from mostly comic to mostly depressing drama. There could be parallels with both historical (e.g., the Warsaw ghetto) and current (e.g., the Syrian civil war) real-life situations, where the decision to leave an area (if even possible) could mean the difference between life and death for you and your surviving loved ones. 

In some ways Major made that decision when he decided to rezombify and stay. 

[Affogato]

11 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

People's mileage would vary. And as someone who just lost his mother a few months ago, I still miss her and would love to have her back as well. But that's not what's at issue, IMO.

The question I was trying to address was: would I as a healthy human voluntarily stay in Seattle, knowing that there's a large chance of being nuked, zombie chow, zombified, deprived of resources, etc. etc., because one of my loved ones had been zombified? Would I stand pat as the government started to put up a wall around the city? Or would I try to leave if I foresaw all those potential dangers and more?

Some people would stay regardless because it's their home or to support their loved one. I personally don't see me doing that.

Sorry about your mother. 

Not everyone has the resources to pick up quickly and relocate. Some would need to liquidate. Some are living hand to mouth.Some may have seen opportunity at first and some may have sen it in illegal activities  in retrospect many may think as the teeth close on their brain stems that they should have stuffed  n extra pair of socks in their pocket and scampered  

We may find that people abandoned their zombie six year olds , decisively, at the first announcement and got out. But also people who, having stayed, now are trapped by how much the kids still need them even as they realize their situation is untenable. 

Edited March 14, 2018 by Affogato

[Paloma]

1 hour ago, Affogato said:

In some ways Major made that decision when he decided to rezombify and stay. 

My memory is shaky on what exactly led to that decision, but I think it had to do with the bond he had made with the FG soldiers and his feeling that he had no place in the world without being part of that. I could be wrong, but I don't think choosing life vs. death was a big factor in that decision--remember how upset he was when Liv zombified him to save his life earlier.

[Chicago Redshirt]

Took a couple responses to the Ramifications thread

[Affogato]

1 hour ago, Paloma said:

My memory is shaky on what exactly led to that decision, but I think it had to do with the bond he had made with the FG soldiers and his feeling that he had no place in the world without being part of that. I could be wrong, but I don't think choosing life vs. death was a big factor in that decision--remember how upset he was when Liv zombified him to save his life earlier.

I don’t men life vs death but that one of his options was to walk away from his friends and Seattle.

Initially he wanted to remin human at all costs and then he accepted zombism of his own free will but either way it was never to leave the situation to save himself. And he knew about that option early enough to do it gracefully. Work as personal trainer while looking for a job in social work  

Along the way he did bond with the fg soldiers as much or more than he bonded with Liv and Ravi. But his priorities remain the same. Personal bonds over safety. 

[possibilities]

Major was outed as the (supposed) Chaos Killer and was a total pariah among non-zombies. He rejoined Fillmore Graves (which required him to be re-zombified) after that, because they understood and appreciated his heroism and accepted his worth. He really didn't have many other options because no one was ever going to hire him as a social worker or anything else at that point. He was a famous face believed to be a serial killer.

[Affogato]

4 hours ago, possibilities said:

Major was outed as the (supposed) Chaos Killer and was a total pariah among non-zombies. He rejoined Fillmore Graves (which required him to be re-zombified) after that, because they understood and appreciated his heroism and accepted his worth. He really didn't have many other options because no one was ever going to hire him as a social worker or anything else at that point. He was a famous face believed to be a serial killer.

There have been actual probable serial killers who have become famous under an assumed name. ANd he could have left earlier. 

[AllyB]

10 hours ago, Paloma said:

My memory is shaky on what exactly led to that decision, but I think it had to do with the bond he had made with the FG soldiers and his feeling that he had no place in the world without being part of that. I could be wrong, but I don't think choosing life vs. death was a big factor in that decision--remember how upset he was when Liv zombified him to save his life earlier.

If the writers actually thought their whole zombies out of the closet plot through that right there has enormous ramifications for Major. At the start of season 3 he was miserable because the public had vilified him as the Chaos Killer. And later once he became human again and was being publicly fetishised as the Chaos Killer by his new girlfriend. So to him the best solution was to rezombify and return to FG where he had found some sort of purpose. But all that changed once zombies were outed. If he had remained human for just a few more days everything would have changed for him.

In the new world of everyone knowing about zombies he'd have been able to approach the press and let them know that all his Chaos Killer "victims" were zombies and he froze them to protect them (and the public) until his scientist friend, who had already made a good first attempt at a cure, perfected his serum and could make them human again. Not only that but he discovered zombies while trying to protect the street kids he worked with, took out the zombie business that was murdering them and assisted Ravi in his search for the tainted utopium he needed. I'm not saying he wouldn't face some criticism but overall, (especially as a very handsome, charming guy with a history in social work) he'd be celebrated as a hero.

There would have to be a part of Major who is absolutely kicking himself for rezombifying. 

[Jacks-Son]

   ON 3/5/2018 AT 9:39 PM,  THUGANOMICS85 SAID: 

Totally knew the killer was going to be Hoshi... err, I mean, Linda Park's character.

Thank you - I could not place her.

Linda Park looked a little gaunt. When she played Hoshi on ENT, she was a lot chubbier.

I think that Rose McIver should be nominated for an Emmy Award. If Tatiana Maslany could be nominated and win a Golden Globe award for playing multiple characters in the same show, McIver should be a shoe-in. Her portrayal as a mean dowager was spot on and excellent. She consistently delivers a top-notch acting job week after week.

[Clanstarling]

2 hours ago, Jacks-Son said:

Linda Park looked a little gaunt. When she played Hoshi on ENT, she was a lot chubbier.

Yes, I agree she's looking gaunt here. Her face was rounder, that's true. I don't remember much about what her build (outside of her face)  looked like in this episode, but on ENT she was normal weighted.

[Jacks-Son]

25 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

on ENT she was normal weighted.

She was considered a hottie on ENT and I think she was cute, but IMHO, nobody beat Jolene Blalock (T'Pol), not even Jeri Ryan (Seven of Nine).

Beautiful Women of Star Trek

As far as Clive and Bozzio, I'm interested in how they are going to resolve the intimacy issue. I think Bozzio needs to talk to Liv to see how she handled it when Major was human.

[Anela]

4 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

Yes, I agree she's looking gaunt here. Her face was rounder, that's true. I don't remember much about what her build (outside of her face)  looked like in this episode, but on ENT she was normal weighted.

She's pregnant now. I wonder when they filmed it. I wasn't that familiar with her, but looked up her husband quickly last month, as I was watching the first season of 24 (just a little late to that party).

[Jacks-Son]

1 hour ago, Anela said:

 I was watching the first season of 24 (just a little late to that party).

Linda Park is pregnant now? You could have fooled me.  Don't know if this was filmed before or after.  I'll go with "before".  Whoa, 1st season of "24".  That was the jam back then. Just a little late, LOL. It's cool; I first watched "Dawson's Creek" about a decade after it's stopped airing. It doesn't matter when you start, as long as you enjoy the series.

[Clanstarling]

9 hours ago, Jacks-Son said:

She was considered a hottie on ENT and I think she was cute, but IMHO, nobody beat Jolene Blalock (T'Pol), not even Jeri Ryan (Seven of Nine).

Beautiful Women of Star Trek

As far as Clive and Bozzio, I'm interested in how they are going to resolve the intimacy issue. I think Bozzio needs to talk to Liv to see how she handled it when Major was human.

It is hard to compete with "Dinners" in her skin tight outfit, same with Seven. ;)

[Jacks-Son]

9 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

It is hard to compete with "Dinners" in her skin tight outfit, same with Seven. ;)

Dinners?? Who or what is that?

[Clanstarling]

14 hours ago, Jacks-Son said:

Dinners?? Who or what is that?

Sorry, old Television Without Pity nickname for T'Pol.

[Jacks-Son]

5 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

Sorry, old Television Without Pity nickname for T'Pol.

OT: Any idea why TWoP called T'Pol "Dinners". I used to listen to their podcasts and don't remember that nickname. Was it because she had a standing offer to dinner with Trip and Archer?

[Clanstarling]

47 minutes ago, Jacks-Son said:

OT: Any idea why TWoP called T'Pol "Dinners". I used to listen to their podcasts and don't remember that nickname. Was it because she had a standing offer to dinner with Trip and Archer?

Picture T'Pol and her most prominent features. Biologically, what are their functional uses?

I didn't know TWoP did podcasts - I only read the recaps. Perhaps they didn't use this nickname outloud.

Edited March 16, 2018 by Clanstarling

[sab85]

On 3/14/2018 at 5:58 AM, Affogato said:

We may find that people abandoned their zombie six year olds , decisively, at the first announcement and got out. But also people who, having stayed, now are trapped by how much the kids still need them even as they realize their situation is untenable. 

There was an off -hand line either this episode or last (by a FG lacky?) that a couple hundred thousandhumans got out in the "Exodus" before the wall went up. So some did GTFO but others couldn't/wouldn't/waited too long.

[Jacks-Son]

12 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

Picture T'Pol and her most prominent features. Biologically, what are their functional uses?

Ahem, that was clear enough, though rather crude on their part. I can certainly appreciate the form, though I may not use that particular term to describe them.  Nowadays, they're just called, "The Girls".   Thanks for clearing that up.  I may be confusing TWoP with TV Campfire Podcast. I don't think TWoP had a podcast, just a website. Nope, it wasn't TV Campfire Podcast. The podcast is called "Tuning in to SciFi TV".

Edited March 17, 2018 by Jacks-Son

[Affogato]

On 3/14/2018 at 12:52 PM, possibilities said:

Major was outed as the (supposed) Chaos Killer and was a total pariah among non-zombies. He rejoined Fillmore Graves (which required him to be re-zombified) after that, because they understood and appreciated his heroism and accepted his worth. He really didn't have many other options because no one was ever going to hire him as a social worker or anything else at that point. He was a famous face believed to be a serial killer.

Chicago redshirt had said he would get out of dodge if he discovered zombies were real and living in dodge. Period. Clearly Major didn’t do this. 

People have pit their lives together under worse circumstances. Maybe he wouldn’t have passed a cori but he could have done something. 

[Affogato]

10 hours ago, sab85 said:

There was an off -hand line either this episode or last (by a FG lacky?) that a couple hundred thousandhumans got out in the "Exodus" before the wall went up. So some did GTFO but others couldn't/wouldn't/waited too long.

There are always articles about how people stay in place during hurricanes. They have nowhere to go and all of their worldly anything is in their house. No car. No relatives to stay with. And so on. 

It would be interesting if Liv’s family moved before the reveal. Could explain some things. They could figure out on their own what happened to Liv. White hair. Medical examiner. Etc. maybe her brother could be trying to come in to talk to her? Or he could use the phone. 

[Clanstarling]

8 hours ago, Jacks-Son said:

Ahem, that was clear enough, though rather crude on their part. I can certainly appreciate the form, though I may not use that particular term to describe them.  Nowadays, they're just called, "The Girls".   Thanks for clearing that up.  I may be confusing TWoP with TV Campfire Podcast. I don't think TWoP had a podcast, just a website. Nope, it wasn't TV Campfire Podcast. The podcast is called "Tuning in to SciFi TV".

Hence my reluctance to spell it out directly. As I recall, it was funny in context, but it has been a very long time since I read them, and for some reason that stuck. Now, back on topic...

11 hours ago, sab85 said:

There was an off -hand line either this episode or last (by a FG lacky?) that a couple hundred thousandhumans got out in the "Exodus" before the wall went up. So some did GTFO but others couldn't/wouldn't/waited too long.

It took me years to understand how hard it is to say "now, we have to go now and leave everything we own and our entire lives behind." I thought about it a lot in Holocaust studies, why some people got out in time, and why others did not. I think perhaps those who have less to leave behind, and who have liquid assets, find it easier to leave. And the timeline in New Seattle was pretty short.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Inside the episode:

[AudienceofOne]

Preacher whipping up the zombies while Take Me To Church plays in the background? Only this show could pull that off.

[KaleyFirefly]

On 3/6/2018 at 7:15 AM, Superclam said:

Yes, the New Seattle thing requires a lot of hand waving on a show where people eat brains. 

How big is the containment area? All of Seattle? A million people? 300k? 

Are the humans still getting food deliveries? Clothes? 

Why are the humans, like the rich socialite, not upset about being stuck in zombie containment? Wasn't she rich enough to buy herself out? 

Why didn't the Filmore Graves enforcement troops notice Blaine's father going down the street with a microphone feeding people brains? No reports on the attack the night before? No notice of this growing threat? 

"I should repeat to myself that it's just a show, and I really should relax!" 

I love your MST3000 reference, and I agree with your assessment. It's getting more and more difficult to handwave this stuff. I mean, starving zombie children roaming the streets and the humans don't seem freaked out about this?

[KaleyFirefly]

On 3/6/2018 at 7:30 PM, AllyB said:

 And instead we get the ever increasingly wacky Liv on brains. In earlier seasons, she was Liv under the influence of a different personality with Liv being self-aware and either enjoying or being frustrated by her personality changes. She was different but still essentially Liv at her core. But now it's just Liv's body hosting an oblivious caricature of a totally different person. It's crappy and done for laughs that don't come now because it's all laid on too thick. 

I agree. This bugs me so much. I miss the old Liv. I hate seeing her do a different ridiculous stereotype character every week.

[aradia22]

I don't know how I feel about Angus actually being insane and thinking Blaine was the voice of God. I guess I can believe it after all the psychological torture but I didn't really need him to be back at all and I like him better when he's a villain with a plan of his own. But I guess this suggests that people don't change and he'd be evil no matter what. If not the ruthless pursuit of money then murder for brains.

Wait... are all the brain dealers humans? Is it the same thing with the factory where there's less temptation? What about all the zombies who used to work for Blaine prepping brain meals at the morgue or the ones who work at the Scratching Post? They seem fine. 

I like that they're stepping up the styling on Liv for her brain-induced personalities but I'm disliking the way the brains are taking over so much. I feel like she had better control in earlier seasons and she should have better control now that she's used to it. She's one of the oldest (meaning when she turned) zombies we know of in Seattle and we don't see other people (the ones on individual brains and not brain tubes) running around acting this silly. How did she forget how to use a microwave? How can she have the same health issues (telling Major to watch the hip and the thing about Clive carrying her like a sherpa)? 

It's weird that none of the main characters (especially at Fillmore Graves or in the police department, government, etc.) know about Angus yet. He's not exactly being secretive throwing brains out the back of a truck and yelling in the streets.

Yeah, with the punks outside the restaurant... I'm not feeling the parallels to other marginalized groups. It's... kind of too soon. Last episode with the kid being "closeted" there was an LGBT parallel but so far a lot of what's come up is sounding like racial prejudice. I would get it if people were just afraid of zombies or hated them but the really specific language feels off. "Are you a zombie or just a zombie lover" had me rolling my eyes.

The more interesting part of the scene was later when Jordan was provoked into scratching a human (what is the protocol when policing anyway to stop that from happening?) and the kid wanted his friend to shoot him. I wish they'd spend more time on real things about what it would be like with zombies in the world and less time trying to make statements about topics bigger than they're equipped to handle.

It was interesting to see Clive/Dale's take on a problem Liv/Major have had on and off when they weren't either zombies or humans at the same time. I've totally forgotten if Liv and Major had a way of getting around it or if they just broke up. It also reminds me of Ned/Charlie on Pushing Daisies. 

I'm SUPER interested in Renegade. I'm normally not one to advocate for new characters but if it gets us off Blaine and his dad, I'm all for it... especially when it increases the diversity of the cast.

I feel like the end of the episode confrontation came out of nowhere and yet it was very in character. I'm glad someone finally called Liv out on her attitude (though that attitude hasn't been present much as of late). And Major has been being a good soldier lately (though he hasn't transformed into a monster so I'm not entirely sure her attacks were warranted). I get Liv being holier than thou but I don't really get why they broke up because working for Fillmore Graves hasn't really made Major compromise his beliefs or integrity aside from choosing which kids should be recruited as "Peacekeepers." We've seen him not use excessive force, be strict but not severe with his zombie youth group, and let Liv and Ravi past the checkpoint. He was more morally gray when he was the Chaos Killer.