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Season 3: Speculation, News & Casting Spoilers

Notwisconsin

By Notwisconsin
in Victoria

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Brn2bwild

Brn2bwild

According to the creator of the series, Series Three will focus on more sexual tension, as Victoria doesn't want to keep having children:

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2018-02-16/victoria-series-3-preview/

That could mean it could carry through the 1850s, through the birth of all of her children, or may be just births of her last two sons.

While technically the show could cover the entire decade, I think there's too much that happened in both society and Victoria's own life to cover smoothly.  Series Two covered approximately 4-5 years.

I also don't believe that Victoria and Albert had premarital sex.  Albert seemed horrified by the very thought.  

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CousinAmy

CousinAmy

It looks like Daisy is just making up things as she goes along. It wasn't uncommon for married women to be constantly pregnant; if they didn't die in childbirth they would keep having babies until they were "done." Victoria is famous for it, and it's shocking to modern sensibilities, but it was a fact of life. Speculating on a sex strike - unless she has evidence from a diary, for example - is nonsense.

As for first babies taking a long time to come? I'm not sure where she got that statistic but I don't think there's a basis in fact. Wishful thinking, maybe.

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Kathira

Kathira

(edited)

She had 9 children in 17 years - that's an average of one every two years, not really that much space, especially when you consider that a pregnancy takes nine months. If there were gaps in between children, it's more likely that Victoria had miscarriages than that she withheld sex. If she miscarried early, she might not have even realized it, and even if it was a few months in, I would not be surprised if there was no record of it. That kind of thing was very much hushed up. Even today, it's such a taboo topic that many women who experience it don't know how common it is. It can also take a bit for ovulation to restart after a pregnancy, although since Victoria was such a "fertile Myrtle" it seems like she didn't have an issue with that!

Edited by Kathira
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kwnyc

kwnyc

On 2/19/2018 at 2:47 PM, Kathira said:

since Victoria was such a "fertile Myrtle" it seems like she didn't have an issue with that!

Well the prolific genes must have skipped a generation...the idea that Victoria was eldest of just 2 or 3 legitimate surviving grandchildren of George III (who had 15 children) boggles the mind.

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Badger

Badger

2 hours ago, kwnyc said:

Well the prolific genes must have skipped a generation...the idea that Victoria was eldest of just 2 or 3 legitimate surviving grandchildren of George III (who had 15 children) boggles the mind.

She wasn't.  Her cousin Prince George of Cambridge (later Duke of Cambridge) was actually a few months older.  

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nx74defiant

nx74defiant

On 2/19/2018 at 12:14 PM, Brn2bwild said:

According to the creator of the series, Series Three will focus on more sexual tension, as Victoria doesn't want to keep having children:

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2018-02-16/victoria-series-3-preview/

That could mean it could carry through the 1850s, through the birth of all of her children, or may be just births of her last two sons.

While technically the show could cover the entire decade, I think there's too much that happened in both society and Victoria's own life to cover smoothly.  Series Two covered approximately 4-5 years.

I also don't believe that Victoria and Albert had premarital sex.  Albert seemed horrified by the very thought.  

Albert was horrified to find out his son had sex outside of marriage. He reacted very badly. It does go against every thing we know about Albert's feelings about sex outside of marriage.

Re Vickie coming so soon - it's not like she was "premature" and born less than 9 months after the marriage. Yes there were couples that took a while for the first child, but we also have George IV, who didn't meet his bride until she arrived for the wedding. According to both of them their wedding night was the Only time they had sex and 9 months later Charlotte was born!

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elle

elle

(edited)
13 hours ago, kwnyc said:

Yes, that's right, though his father was Vicky's father's OLDER brother. I remember from S1 that he was the one who didn't want to marry a "dwarf."

Prince Adolphus, Duke of Cambridge (Feb 1774), George's father, was the YOUNGER brother of Prince Edward, Duke of Kent and Strathearn (Nov 1767), Queen Victoria's father.  Had he been the older brother, we would be talking about another King George or rather King Adolphus (Frederick?) as the father would have been next in line before his son.  

Edited by elle
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Badger

Badger

On 2/23/2018 at 12:36 AM, elle said:

Prince Adolphus, Duke of Cambridge (Feb 1774), George's father, was the YOUNGER brother of Prince Edward, Duke of Kent and Strathearn (Nov 1767), Queen Victoria's father.  Had he been the older brother, we would be talking about another King George or rather King Adolphus (Frederick?) as the father would have been next in line before his son.  

His granddaughter, Princess Victoria Mary of Teck, married Queen Victoria's grandson, Prince George, Duke of York and they later became King George V and Queen Mary, grandparents of Elizabeth II.  

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elle

elle

1 hour ago, Badger said:

His granddaughter, Princess Victoria Mary of Teck, married Queen Victoria's grandson, Prince George, Duke of York and they later became King George V and Queen Mary, grandparents of Elizabeth II.  

And just to make this more fun, Ernest Augustus, Duke of Cumberland, King of Hanover (b. June 1771), villainous* uncle of Queen Victoria, also had a son George who would succeed him to become George V of Hanover.

Can't keep the players straight without a program!

*His life is an interesting story while despised in England, he was was loved in Hanover.  There is speculation to the veracity of the stories that circulated about him.  While not an angel, by any means he seems not to be the mustache twirling villain he is often portrayed.

To get this back on topic, the prime ministers we should expect to see are Earl of Derby, Earl of Aberdeen, and Viscount Palmerston.  Depending on how much they cover in the series, they could end with Vicky's betrothal in September 1855 or her wedding in January 1858.

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Notwisconsin

Notwisconsin

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13 hours ago, elle said:

While not an angel, by any means he seems not to be the mustache twirling villain he is often portrayed.

Actually, he was. He had a mustache and he twirled it quite often.

 

There is a hotel in San Francisco which is named after the son of George IVths daughter,  Queen Charlotte, George V. not the real one. I've seen the painting in the lobby, it looks nothing like the real one.

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Nolefan

Nolefan

On 2/22/2018 at 8:41 AM, nx74defiant said:

Albert was horrified to find out his son had sex outside of marriage. He reacted very badly. It does go against every thing we know about Albert's feelings about sex outside of marriage.

Re Vickie coming so soon - it's not like she was "premature" and born less than 9 months after the marriage. Yes there were couples that took a while for the first child, but we also have George IV, who didn't meet his bride until she arrived for the wedding. According to both of them their wedding night was the Only time they had sex and 9 months later Charlotte was born!

I totally agree. Where did Ms. Goodwin get this premarital sex theory from? In her diary entry from her wedding night, Victoria states that she “never spent such an evening” and goes on and on about the new experience. Vicky was born 9 and a half months after Victoria and Albert’s wedding. I am not a doctor, but I know a woman can get pregnant the first time she has sex. I realize this is a television drama, but when the show creator makes statements like this which are in direct conflict to historical facts, it makes me nervous. Almost seems like she is more interested in rewriting history then telling the story of Queen Victoria for some strange reason.  

On 2/19/2018 at 1:58 PM, CousinAmy said:

It looks like Daisy is just making up things as she goes along. It wasn't uncommon for married women to be constantly pregnant; if they didn't die in childbirth they would keep having babies until they were "done." Victoria is famous for it, and it's shocking to modern sensibilities, but it was a fact of life. Speculating on a sex strike - unless she has evidence from a diary, for example - is nonsense.

As for first babies taking a long time to come? I'm not sure where she got that statistic but I don't think there's a basis in fact. Wishful thinking, maybe.

I totally agree. It seems more plausible to me that maybe Victoria and/or Albert became less fertile as they aged, instead of Ms. Goodwin’s sex strike theory. But, I guess her sex strike theory is better for creating drama.

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Nolefan

Nolefan

Casting information was recently released. Victoria’s older sister Fedora has been casted, as well as the part of Lord Palmerston. Looks like the actor playing Lord Palmerston is much, much younger than the real Lord Palmerston. Wonder what this will mean? Lord Palmerston was married to Lord Melbourne’s sister. I thought this might be interesting to explore in the show, but with the character being much younger, will his wife be reinvented? The new casting information made me think about what I hope to see in Season 3. My list:

(1) Victoria and Albert are now both a bit older, and each Prime Minister that they admired (Victoria and Lord M/Albert and Robert Peele) is now gone. I hope to see Victoria and Albert start to team up with each other against common foes, such as Lord Palmerston.

(2) The bedroom door lock I have read so much about at Osborne House. 

(3) The show is at its best when if features new inventions of the time (Engine of Change was one of my favorites). So, I am looking forward to the Great Exhibition. 

(4) The Scotland episode was another one of my favorites. I hope Victoria and Albert take another vacation there. I read little Vicky used to ride with her parents through the Highlands on a Shetland pony, which would be too cute.

(5) I read that Victoria and Albert travelled to Albert’s home in Germany. It became one of Victoria’s favorite places. I hope Season 3 includes a trip there, which would also have the added benefit of more Ernest. (And in regard to Ernest, I need some questions answered: What about the wife he is supposed to have by now? Are Ernest and Harriet over? Will Victoria ever got a clue about Ernest and Harriet?)

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voiceover

voiceover

Knee-deep in Julia Baird's Victoria the Queen, finally arriving at tales of her relationship with my favorite historical figure: Benjamin Disraeli.

By the time the series gets to his role in her life (if it should live that long), my current choice for the actor to play him would be Matt Smith.  Very possible Jenna would have been replaced by then, so no Who-vian comparisons need be snickered over.  He just seems right, physically, for the part.  Though I still have fond memories of Antony Sher's perfect Dizzy in Mrs Brown.

CherithCutestory

CherithCutestory

(edited)
On 2/19/2018 at 1:58 PM, CousinAmy said:

It looks like Daisy is just making up things as she goes along. It wasn't uncommon for married women to be constantly pregnant; if they didn't die in childbirth they would keep having babies until they were "done." Victoria is famous for it, and it's shocking to modern sensibilities, but it was a fact of life. Speculating on a sex strike - unless she has evidence from a diary, for example - is nonsense.

 

But Victoria very much hated being pregnant and was very clear about that. She also disliked babies at that frog stage. So, it's not at all unlikely that she contemplated stopping even if she was too into Albert to go through with it. It's not like this is being made up out of nowhere. 

Quote

 

I also don't believe that Victoria and Albert had premarital sex.  Albert seemed horrified by the very thought.  


 

I'd guess they didn't because of Victoria's journal. But it was very common to have sex with your betrothed before marriage at the time. The contract for marriage was much the same thing as marriage itself. It isn't remotely comparable to sex with an "actress" you have no intention of marrying, as was the case with Bertie. He wasn't horrified at sex before marriage but at sex with a woman of ill repute who would never be a marriage prospect. 

Edited by CherithCutestory
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Razzberry

Razzberry

from the Goodwin interview: "She added that the upcoming Christmas special will contain an “astonishing” episode which happened in real life but which she suspects viewers “won’t believe is actually true”.

Wonder what she's referring to.  I'm glad the show is back soon, though I wish she'd hold the sugar-coating. 

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Nolefan

Nolefan

4 hours ago, Razzberry said:

from the Goodwin interview: "She added that the upcoming Christmas special will contain an “astonishing” episode which happened in real life but which she suspects viewers “won’t believe is actually true”.

Wonder what she's referring to.  I'm glad the show is back soon, though I wish she'd hold the sugar-coating. 

I think she was referring to Sara Forbes becoming Queen Victoria’s goddaughter. I read that the show exaggerated the stuff about Victoria wanting to adopt Sara. Mr. and Mrs. Forbes adopted Sara right away. Victoria took a great interest in Sara’s upbringing. Sara even vacationed with Victoria & Albert and their children at Osborne House.

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