S02.E13: Chapter Twenty-Six: The Tell-Tale Heart

[Quark]

Everyone on this show, bar Mr Andrews, is completely nuts.

I love it!

[secnarf]

17 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

I still don't get why they didn't just say they had no idea who's car that was rather than lying about the ownership, thereby admitting they knew it was there, then hotwiring it, driving it through town to the conveniently isolated body of water, sinking it, which they clearly weren't sure was going to work, and hoping that it never resurfaces. Jug, you are far from a criminal mastermind, or mastermind of any kind. That jacket has clearly depleted your brain cells. You used to be smarter than this.

I do think it would be hilarious if the cops did dust the Cooper house for fingerprints. "Um, ma'am, why are there no fingerprints on any of these apples?" "We haven't touched them." "Well, how did they get into this bowl?" "They came with the bowl." "yeah, okay."

I had both of those exact same thoughts while watching the episode!

As for the car, I later thought about it and realized that if they said they didn’t know whose car it was, the lady would have ticketed it and ran the plates to identify the owner. Then, there might have been some attempt to contact the owner so he could pay the ticket/retrieve his car (which would probably be towed). I think Jughead just didn’t want her to run the plates on the car. 

 

I was also begging betty to leave her prints all over those apples! 

[Mabinogia]

1 hour ago, secnarf said:

I was also begging betty to leave her prints all over those apples! 

It was a strange scene because it seemed very deliberate. Betty asks if he touched the apples and I'm pretty sure Alice said no. Then Betty obsessively scrubs the apples. Maybe I misheard and Alice said yes? Otherwise, I'm guessing it was meant to show Betty slowly slipping into madness.

The plate thing kind of makes sense, not wanting them to run the plates. I am a paranoid person by nature so if I went the Jughead route I'd be spending the rest of my life terrified that car was going to somehow be found.

[MaggieG]

Archie: "What's a capo?"

Archiekins, do yourself a favor and watch The Godfather. He actually cracks me up sometimes with how adorably dumb he is.

[Snookums]

Quote

 Just need to find a way to work in the Russian mafia,

Well, we already have Scary Russian Beret Lady receiving mysterious Lovecraftian  crates over in Greendale, so who knows.... * scary woo-woo ghost sounds*

[WhosThatGirl]

Yeah. The more I think about this episode and this season, I’m just not all that into all this crazy ridiculous stuff. I don’t know. I miss having an actual story on this show and not whatever this show has become. Nothing makes sense. At least the crazy last season wasn’t absurd like it feels now. 

[Chinders123]

3 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Yeah. The more I think about this episode and this season, I’m just not all that into all this crazy ridiculous stuff. I don’t know. I miss having an actual story on this show and not whatever this show has become. Nothing makes sense. At least the crazy last season wasn’t absurd like it feels now. 

It's starting to delve into Pretty Little Liars territory, where nothing made sense and it felt like the plot was being made up as it went along. I'm still going to watch no matter how crazy it gets because #bughead, but .... I see what you mean.

[WhosThatGirl]

Yeah PLL got really bad and I really disliked it. But I don’t know.. Riverdale feels worse? Maybe because one it was so much better in the first season than PLL ever was and two it feels too early for the show in the second season to be getting this crazy and ridiculous. I don’t know what happened but they lost their magic of season one.

[tennisgurl]

If Riverdale goes full PLL, I’ll be very disappointed. PLL has moments of actually being good, but it was mostly soap opera crazy since day 1. Riverdale has potential, and still has moments of actual story and character, so it becoming all nuts and ignoring the story would be really sad. 

[tennisgurl]

At least Riverdale didn’t have the high school teacher sleeping with their student marry the kid. Unlike PLL. 

[PeekaBoo]

Ok... been thinking about the last ep but am I the only one that is meh when it comes to the murder? 

 

I am unwilling to be invested in the whole thing because im afraid that the show will sort of forget about it and sweep it under the rug like they've done so far with other stuff... and if anything should happen,  im pretty sure the Jones will get punished!

[WhosThatGirl]

58 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

At least Riverdale didn’t have the high school teacher sleeping with their student marry the kid. Unlike PLL. 

Yeah I’ll give Riverdale credit that they at least sort of acknowledged that Archie and Grundy was wrong- unlike PLL which framed the teacher student love story as epic. I ranted and raved about it on that shows forums here.

However.. story wise they do seem to be heading that way. This season was a mess and there is no cohesiveness in anything. To me, they seem more excited about previews and promos and what’s shocking and less about actual story. 

[SourK]

I don't think this show can make up its mind about whether Veronica's okay with her dad being a mob boss.

Also, wow, I guess FP feels really remorseful about everything he did to Jason Blossom given that his way of preventing Betty and Alice from making "the same mistake" as he did was to stop them from getting caught. I'm really glad the show worked so hard to convince us he was secretly a good guy who didn't want to murder a teenager. Also LOL, because of course his way of helping is to add more crimes; that's how everybody helps in this damn town.

On 2/7/2018 at 10:13 PM, HunterHunted said:

I get that an affair is scandalous, but Kevin's mom is on a naval base in Bahrain.  We've never seen her or even had another character mention talking to her for 2 years. And Mayor McCoy's estranged husband is musician in recovery who is constantly on the road. I suspect everyone in town would be entirely sympathetic to Mayor McCoy and Sheriff Keller.

Wow -- I'm impressed that you remember all this stuff. I forgot those characters even existed. Or that the affair did.

On 2/7/2018 at 11:14 PM, RogerDodger said:

While I admittedly do not watch Riverdale for reality, I have a very hard time buying that millionaire mafioso Hiram Lodge would be that concerned over what Jughead would write in a student newspaper.

THIS. Except, multiply it and ask why anyone cares what Jughead writes in the school newspaper. I've literally never heard of a school newspaper that was read by anyone outside the school or by most people in the school.

[HunterHunted]

5 hours ago, SourK said:

THIS. Except, multiply it and ask why anyone cares what Jughead writes in the school newspaper. I've literally never heard of a school newspaper that was read by anyone outside the school or by most people in the school.

I can think of only a few times where a high school newspaper broke a major story: 

• The principal with fake degrees and credentials

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/04/05/these-high-school-journalists-investigated-a-new-principals-credentials-days-later-she-resigned/?utm_term=.47ede6e9fa53

• School uniforms made by sweatshops

http://archive.sltrib.com/story.php?ref=/ci_2520347

Usually when a school paper story breaks wide it's very school focused. So it's really only likely that Jughead's story about Southside High would have had any traction. And only then would it be the question of why the school stayed open for as many years as it had if it was so environmentally toxic. What had changed in the present circumstances to warrant its closure? Drugs had been run and manufactured out of the school for years. It was always criminally undermaintained and filled with asbestos and other toxic building materials. Why close it now?

Furthermore, school newspapers don't have carte blanche to write about everything in the community. Pickens Day? Yes, because it's about civics. Hiram Lodge colluding with the mayor to condemn city property so that he can purchase it? Probably not. Jughead could bootstrap this into his story about Southside High, but that's about it. Additionally, there is also a solid counterargument that the Lodges buying property that the city couldn't maintain and putting the property on the tax rolls only helps the community.

If the Lodges wanted to be really sketchy, they would rent the property from the city for some nominal amount ($1/year), redevelop it, keep nominal city services on the property to keep it tax free (or reduce property taxes) like a library in a new shopping development, a police and fire station in a new community development, or a luxury apartment development mixed throughout a city park. This would allow the Lodges to actually screw the city and community because the rest of the town is essentially denied access to that resource and the city doesn't get increased property taxes from the improved property.

[sacrebleu]

Actually, the most unbelievable thing for me was that Cheryl says she has a sleigh canopy bed?

Nope.  I'm not sure they even exist. Sleigh. Yes. Canopy. Yes... Sleigh canopy??? 

 

How much disbelief are we to suspend?

[secnarf]

6 hours ago, sacrebleu said:

Actually, the most unbelievable thing for me was that Cheryl says she has a sleigh canopy bed?

Nope.  I'm not sure they even exist. Sleigh. Yes. Canopy. Yes... Sleigh canopy??? 

 

How much disbelief are we to suspend?

https://www.wayfair.com/furniture/sb2/canopy-sleigh-beds-c46122-a3005~7090-a3005~7091.html

I had no idea they existed until I googled it.

[tennisgurl]

Man, Archie is the only person in the world who I think has accidentally joined the mafia. I still really like the Lodges, especially if I dont connect it with the first season too much, Back then, they seemed like a rich family that fell from grace when dad got arrested for some white collar crime, and now Veronica and Hermione have to adjust to a more "normal" life. All makes sense. But now, her dad is some kind of super well connected mob boss, as is Hermione, and they have a whole Soprano's style crime family and criminal underworld behind them. Because this season takes everything that was already at an 8, and takes it up to a 15. 

Like, the Coopers were always wacked out and had creepy secrets, but now its just gone so hard, it feels it it isn't even close to real. Like, could Chic be any MORE obviously evil? And could Alice be any dumber for going along with everything this obvious serial killer says? Come on. 

Cheryl doing archery in her spiffy archery outfit was great though. The Blossoms are still working fine, because they were always at a 15, even while everyone else was at an 8. Now that everyone is at a 15, the Blossoms dont get to Blossom the way they used to, and the whole show is going off the rails. 

[WhosThatGirl]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

Man, Archie is the only person in the world who I think has accidentally joined the mafia. I still really like the Lodges, especially if I dont connect it with the first season too much, Back then, they seemed like a rich family that fell from grace when dad got arrested for some white collar crime, and now Veronica and Hermione have to adjust to a more "normal" life. All makes sense. But now, her dad is some kind of super well connected mob boss, as is Hermione, and they have a whole Soprano's style crime family and criminal underworld behind them. Because this season takes everything that was already at an 8, and takes it up to a 15. 

Like, the Coopers were always wacked out and had creepy secrets, but now its just gone so hard, it feels it it isn't even close to real. Like, could Chic be any MORE obviously evil? And could Alice be any dumber for going along with everything this obvious serial killer says? Come on. 

Cheryl doing archery in her spiffy archery outfit was great though. The Blossoms are still working fine, because they were always at a 15, even while everyone else was at an 8. Now that everyone is at a 15, the Blossoms dont get to Blossom the way they used to, and the whole show is going off the rails. 

Everything about this season just feels off to me. Even the Blossoms. And I wish I liked The Lodges But I find their story boring and like something we’ve seen many times over. The only thing interesting to me there is that maybe it is Hirmone calling all the shots which.. that doesn’t make sense compared to last season and the first few episodes of this season but whatever.

Also yes.. I have to state what I’ve been saying: they have made every character take stupid pills this season. Everyone is really stupid and making real dumb decisions.

Save for a few. I mean Archie has been taking them since this show has been on and Fred is fine but he’s never really around, save for a two second scene.  But like I said.. probably best if Fred’s time on screen is minimal, this show ruins any and all characters when they actually get a semblance of a story. See Kevin, Josie, and Cheryl stories for this season in the first half. 

[Affogato]

On ‎2‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 2:36 PM, Mabinogia said:

 

I do think it would be hilarious if the cops did dust the Cooper house for fingerprints. "Um, ma'am, why are there no fingerprints on any of these apples?" "We haven't touched them." "Well, how did they get into this bowl?" "They came with the bowl." "yeah, okay."

"The Fruit at the Bottom of the Bowl" is a Ray Bradbury Story. A criminal is caught in the attic wiping fingerprints off things that haven't been touched by anyone in years. . I've heard the story  credited with being one of the first stories of a certain kind of psychological thriller. I think this is a call out.

[Mabinogia]

1 hour ago, Affogato said:

"The Fruit at the Bottom of the Bowl" is a Ray Bradbury Story. A criminal is caught in the attic wiping fingerprints off things that haven't been touched by anyone in years. . I've heard the story  credited with being one of the first stories of a certain kind of psychological thriller. I think this is a call out.

Oooh, I'll have to read that. 

[Affogato]

1 hour ago, Mabinogia said:

Oooh, I'll have to read that. 

The episodes all have titles of movies and seem pretty stylized. I think the characters change a bit each episode to fit the theme, too. I just haven't had the time to watch the movies and make the comparisons, but I'm betting that this show is smarter than most people are giving it credit for....it may drive me to research the genre. 

On a lighter note boy am I shipping FP and Alice! Also, Moll flanders? Courtesan? Cheryl, damn. And love the 1950s alarm clock in Betty's boudoir. 

[Affogato]

The tell tale heart is a story by Edgar Allen Poe. 

Spoiler

A gothic horror story where a murderer’s guilt is betrayed when he hears/imagines he hears his victims heartbeat under the floorboards where he hid the body,

I think the ringing phone was a nice touch. 

And the affair with Sheriff Keller sinks the mayor. 

Edited February 11, 2018 by Affogato
Phone twists my words

[Daltrey]

On ‎2018‎-‎02‎-‎07 at 6:10 PM, WhosThatGirl said:

On ‎2018‎-‎02‎-‎07 at 6:06 PM, Sonoma said:

If it was a normal show I would feel more concerned. But to me Riverdale is a cross of fantasy, reality, and camp so I don't take this part of the show that seriously.

Yeah. I don’t know, it’s just not my favorite thing. And a season ago, this show felt very different and more lighter than what it is now.

You must have missed the borderline incest between distant cousins Polly Cooper and Brother Blossom, as well as the drug kingpin masquerading as a maple syrup magnate who hung himself after it was discovered he was the one who murdered his own son, lol. ;)

[WhosThatGirl]

5 hours ago, Daltrey said:

You must have missed the borderline incest between distant cousins Polly Cooper and Brother Blossom, as well as the drug kingpin masquerading as a maple syrup magnate who hung himself after it was discovered he was the one who murdered his own son, lol. ;)

Yeah.. I know  I remember but this season feels way too dark. I feel like it’s not even fun. At least last season the kids acted like kids. We haven’t seen anything remotely like that this season. At least in my opinion. 

[Mabinogia]

5 hours ago, Affogato said:

And the affair with Sheriff Keller sinks the mayor. 

And an affair with the mayor would ruin Sheriff Keller's career. I like to think that a part of Veronica's thinking was to protect Kevin's father from getting caught up on her parents stupid storyline. And to some extent Josie's mom. Hmm, I wonder if, now that her parents are targeting people she knows, parents of her friends, she might not find their lifestyle so appealing. I really want her to turn on them because, first, I can't stand the badly acted adult Lodges and second, I think she could be the only one in a position to really bring them down. 

[Affogato]

5 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

And an affair with the mayor would ruin Sheriff Keller's career. I like to think that a part of Veronica's thinking was to protect Kevin's father from getting caught up on her parents stupid storyline. And to some extent Josie's mom. Hmm, I wonder if, now that her parents are targeting people she knows, parents of her friends, she might not find their lifestyle so appealing. I really want her to turn on them because, first, I can't stand the badly acted adult Lodges and second, I think she could be the only one in a position to really bring them down. 

She's a good liar with a thousand yard stare.

I think she thinks she can use her influence for good. so far, not doing too bad, but I bet she gets in over her head soon. Especially if Archie starts spying/ratting on her. 

[Chas411]

The Chic storyline makes me prefer Hal to any of the other Coopers. He should go off with Penelope Blossom. At least she actually seems to like him.

I also really like Veronicas dad and prefer the over the top mafia storyline to any of the bullshit Serpent snorefest.

And I can see Bughead: The prequel starring FP and Alice has started. My eyes nearly rolled into the back of my head. Not sure how much more of either ship I can take.

Edited February 11, 2018 by Chas411

[WhosThatGirl]

3 minutes ago, Chas411 said:

The Chic storyline makes me prefer Hal to any of the other Coopers. He should go off with Penelope Blossom. At least she actually seems to like him.

I also really like Veronicas dad and prefer the over the top mafia storyline to any of the bullshit Serpent snorefest.

I’m with you on the Hal and Chic story. Not the Lodges because.. boring. Although I hate the gang story because it never makes sense.

But the Chic story is so boring and tedious, I watched a hundred other teen shows do the Chic character. I’m also not really into it implicating Alice and Betty and now Jughead and FP into a hiding a body story while Chic does.. nothing to help? I’m also not really excited for the reveal that he probably isn’t really Chic Cooper. It’s also really ruining the Alice character.

[Daltrey]

6 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

12 hours ago, Daltrey said:

You must have missed the borderline incest between distant cousins Polly Cooper and Brother Blossom, as well as the drug kingpin masquerading as a maple syrup magnate who hung himself after it was discovered he was the one who murdered his own son, lol. ;)

Yeah.. I know  I remember but this season feels way too dark. I feel like it’s not even fun. At least last season the kids acted like kids. We haven’t seen anything remotely like that this season. At least in my opinion. 

Fair enough. I just find the darkness is offset by how absurd it all is, lol. It's interesting how people perceive things differently; I have a friend who turned the pilot off after 20 minutes because he thought the kids didn't act like kids at all. I don't necessarily disagree with him, but I don't particularly care, either. It initially bothered me more how ridiculously insane most of the parents seemed to be, but I've come to realize that the show isn't even remotely trying to reflect anything of the real world. Now I just sit back and try to enjoy the ride, lol! ;)

[Mabinogia]

44 minutes ago, Daltrey said:

Fair enough. I just find the darkness is offset by how absurd it all is, lol. It's interesting how people perceive things differently;

I found season 1s darkness more absurd. I don't find a teenage girl turning to web porn because she's lonely, or an outcast joining a gang and basically trashing his future because he's following the same stupid path as his father that absurd. I feel like this season went more towards realism and it's hurting the show. I liked Alice cleaning blood off the floor and the Cooper women and Jones men hiding bodies and cars because that is absurd so it's funny to me. I actually find Chic pretty absurd too so he doesn't bother me the way he's bothering others. It's a sign, I hope, that things are going back towards dark humor rather than just gritty depressing darkness. 

I loved the dark humor of season 1. Hell, I loved Archie's shirtless vigilante group because it was so absurd and so very Archie. But then things, IMO, took a turn for the humorless. 

We all do see things differently, and we all want different things from the show. That is why I think pandering to an audience is the worst idea for a show. Because by pandering to one sect they are alienating another. They need to write the story they want to write because then the writing will be stronger and their passion for the story will draw more people in. Trouble is, I think they lost sight of what they want and are trying to give us what we want, but there are so many of us and we all want different things. It's just never going to work. 

I want it to go back towards dark humor. I don't want no darkness, I just don't want realistic darkness. I have life for that. Give me couples and families bonding over hiding bodies, give me incest twins, and grandmothers who think their grandchildren should have been drown at birth, give me evil maple syrup magnets and shirtless vigilantes. Leave out the Mafioso crap and the gangland skinnings and teenage online prostitution.  And especially don't equate mental illness with overt sexuality just because it's happening to a pretty female that they want to get stripped down to her underwear as much as possible. 

[WhosThatGirl]

1 hour ago, Mabinogia said:

I found season 1s darkness more absurd. I don't find a teenage girl turning to web porn because she's lonely, or an outcast joining a gang and basically trashing his future because he's following the same stupid path as his father that absurd. I feel like this season went more towards realism and it's hurting the show. I liked Alice cleaning blood off the floor and the Cooper women and Jones men hiding bodies and cars because that is absurd so it's funny to me. I actually find Chic pretty absurd too so he doesn't bother me the way he's bothering others. It's a sign, I hope, that things are going back towards dark humor rather than just gritty depressing darkness. 

I loved the dark humor of season 1. Hell, I loved Archie's shirtless vigilante group because it was so absurd and so very Archie. But then things, IMO, took a turn for the humorless. 

We all do see things differently, and we all want different things from the show. That is why I think pandering to an audience is the worst idea for a show. Because by pandering to one sect they are alienating another. They need to write the story they want to write because then the writing will be stronger and their passion for the story will draw more people in. Trouble is, I think they lost sight of what they want and are trying to give us what we want, but there are so many of us and we all want different things. It's just never going to work. 

I want it to go back towards dark humor. I don't want no darkness, I just don't want realistic darkness. I have life for that. Give me couples and families bonding over hiding bodies, give me incest twins, and grandmothers who think their grandchildren should have been drown at birth, give me evil maple syrup magnets and shirtless vigilantes. Leave out the Mafioso crap and the gangland skinnings and teenage online prostitution.  And especially don't equate mental illness with overt sexuality just because it's happening to a pretty female that they want to get stripped down to her underwear as much as possible. 

This. 

It also would be nice as I have to keep saying for the characters to actually hang out together once in a while and also would be nice if there weren’t ten thousand plots going on because no one shares screen time really with each other. 

But hey I digress.

i also miss when it seemed like the kids had fun once in a while. Even this back half of the season, nothing’s really fun. It’s all still so dark and making it not fun at all to watch.

[Daltrey]

1 hour ago, Mabinogia said:

2 hours ago, Daltrey said:

Fair enough. I just find the darkness is offset by how absurd it all is, lol. It's interesting how people perceive things differently;

I found season 1s darkness more absurd. I don't find a teenage girl turning to web porn because she's lonely, or an outcast joining a gang and basically trashing his future because he's following the same stupid path as his father that absurd. I feel like this season went more towards realism and it's hurting the show. I liked Alice cleaning blood off the floor and the Cooper women and Jones men hiding bodies and cars because that is absurd so it's funny to me. I actually find Chic pretty absurd too so he doesn't bother me the way he's bothering others. It's a sign, I hope, that things are going back towards dark humor rather than just gritty depressing darkness. 

I loved the dark humor of season 1. Hell, I loved Archie's shirtless vigilante group because it was so absurd and so very Archie. But then things, IMO, took a turn for the humorless. 

We all do see things differently, and we all want different things from the show. That is why I think pandering to an audience is the worst idea for a show. Because by pandering to one sect they are alienating another. They need to write the story they want to write because then the writing will be stronger and their passion for the story will draw more people in. Trouble is, I think they lost sight of what they want and are trying to give us what we want, but there are so many of us and we all want different things. It's just never going to work. 

I want it to go back towards dark humor. I don't want no darkness, I just don't want realistic darkness. I have life for that. Give me couples and families bonding over hiding bodies, give me incest twins, and grandmothers who think their grandchildren should have been drown at birth, give me evil maple syrup magnets and shirtless vigilantes. Leave out the Mafioso crap and the gangland skinnings and teenage online prostitution.  And especially don't equate mental illness with overt sexuality just because it's happening to a pretty female that they want to get stripped down to her underwear as much as possible.

I think that might just be a near perfect assessment. Your point  about pandering made me reconsider my thought regarding the show vs the real world. If the show has tried to reflect anything of the real world, I would say it is issues of political correctness, however ham fisted they've managed it. I think they've done a great job of achieving diversity of representation, though some characters stories could use a little more flesh *cough* Josie, *cough* Kevin and Reggie, but some situations just seem hackneyed, trite or hypocritical. The things done to Chuck by the women in response to things he did and didn't do in regard to The Women's Movement come to mind, and the idea of the Serpents gang being derived from the remnants of a Native tribe is a little left field bizarre and feels a bit shoehorned in. Like you say, we have real life for this; give us the sublimely absurd escapism offered off the top.

[HerkyJerky]

The biggest mystery to this episode is how do you play Clue with just two people?

[WhosThatGirl]

I feel like I’ve said how I feel enough about this season and these episodes but I’m starting to feel we need to open up a new topic thread to discuss where Riverdale Went Wrong. 

[PeekaBoo]

6 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I feel like I’ve said how I feel enough about this season and these episodes but I’m starting to feel we need to open up a new topic thread to discuss where Riverdale Went Wrong. 

Oh and feel more depressed about our beloved show?!?! Nah... I think in the end we would end up repeating ourselves and feel even more depressed!!! lol... ;-)

[Mabinogia]

12 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

It also would be nice as I have to keep saying for the characters to actually hang out together once in a while and also would be nice if there weren’t ten thousand plots going on because no one shares screen time really with each other. 

So so so true. One of the best surprises about this show when I first started was how much I really believed these kids were friends. Their friendship held the show together. All the craziness was acceptable because at it's core this show had such a strong friendship grounding it. Now, when we do get the main characters in scene's together it almost always feels like couples. Mostly Jug/Betty and Archie Veronica but we did get a little Betty/Archie. But it is rare to see them all together anymore. Veronica's busy being a mob princess with Archie as her own personal capo. Jug is busy being a junior gang leader and Betty is busy having some kind of oversexed mental breakdown. I miss them all hanging out in a booth at Pop's being teenagers.

[WhosThatGirl]

1 hour ago, Mabinogia said:

So so so true. One of the best surprises about this show when I first started was how much I really believed these kids were friends. Their friendship held the show together. All the craziness was acceptable because at it's core this show had such a strong friendship grounding it. Now, when we do get the main characters in scene's together it almost always feels like couples. Mostly Jug/Betty and Archie Veronica but we did get a little Betty/Archie. But it is rare to see them all together anymore. Veronica's busy being a mob princess with Archie as her own personal capo. Jug is busy being a junior gang leader and Betty is busy having some kind of oversexed mental breakdown. I miss them all hanging out in a booth at Pop's being teenagers.

Yup. That’s my really real big problem( get me wrong, I’ve talked endlessly about actual stories they are doing, I can never get behind the Jughead cuts off someone’s tattoo, or the webcam stuff) that none of the characters are talking to each other at all. 

The last episode that seemed to remember that Betty, Jughead, Archie, and Veronica are friends as the first episode this season.

And then all these things happen and none of these characters have chosen to discuss it. Archie and Betty kiss and then never mention it again? Archie tells Veronica because Cheryl knows and doesn’t tell Betty any of this? Because the way Betty has been acting, it doesn’t seem like she knows Veronica knows. Also I don’t think Veronica wouldn’t at least  talk to Betty about it, but beronica and Betty haven’t been actual friends since probably episode seven.

A part of me wanted to give the show credit and think maybe thebshow was having Veronica make a deliberate choice in putting some distance between her and Betty because of the kiss, but I don’t think the show reallly cares enough to do that. If anything, this friendship is just not as important as Veronica having a Godfather storyline with her father and singing songs from cruel Intentions.

Even if the back second half of this season is better, it’s still running a mile minute with no real time to breathe and to me, no real plot point. Just a shocking scene to fit into a promo and to end the episode on. 

[Snookums]

Quote

And the affair with Sheriff Keller sinks the mayor. 

It sinks them both. Not only because of the juicy scandal part of it, but because it's law enforcement literally in bed with the executive branch of town government: never a good idea. Plus, Serena would be taking even more racist crap and death threats while Keller would be pilloried for cheating on his war hero spouse, not to mention the heaping servings of public humiliation for Josie and Kevin. Veronica was right to warn the mayor to get in front of it while she could. 

 

Quote

 I don't want no darkness, I just don't want realistic darkness. I have life for that.

A- to the -MEN. I've got plenty of depressing shit going on in reality; I watch this show for a hit of VC Andrews  ridiculousness. 

Even in Season One they had a serious misstep with Archie and Miss Grundy; although it was woven into the murder storyline much more seamlessly and there was one big story to focus on--Jason's murder. But the whole "underage kid and teacher" thing is way too realistic, unfortunately, for the absurd gloss to take, and the writers very smartly bailed on that. When they got sexy with Archie again it was with girls his own age or making bizarro web threats with his shirt off.

But having done so with the males on the show, they took the sexualized teen idea and decided to make Betty a whole freakin' wardrobe out of it. Not only was she stripping in a grody bar, she's doing online porn! Again, stuff that's not too far off the beaten path, at all, especially the latter. To be fair, Dark Betty was introduced last season and she's been brought up a few times so it wasn't completely out of nowhere, but still. How much sophisticated and damaging sex in designer outfits do they think sixteen year olds have? 

Edited February 12, 2018 by Snookums

[Mabinogia]

7 minutes ago, Snookums said:

But the whole "underage kid and teacher" thing is way too realistic, unfortunately, for the absurd gloss to take, and the writers very smartly bailed on that.

Having suffered through years of Pretty Little Liars, I will give Riverdale credit for never having romanticized what was going on. The other kids weren't rooting for Archie and Mrs. Grundy to get married and have babies together. Alice, rightly, went after Mrs. Grundy for abusing a minor. And Grundy had the decency to at least try to hide what they were doing because she knew it wasn't right. All things PLL seemed to miss.

So, while I agree it wasn't a great storyline, I don't get why they had it there in the first place, at least it was handled correctly, like the bad, shameful thing it was instead of paraded around as true love. And it was just a small side story and it ended.

[WhosThatGirl]

1 minute ago, Mabinogia said:

Having suffered through years of Pretty Little Liars, I will give Riverdale credit for never having romanticized what was going on. The other kids weren't rooting for Archie and Mrs. Grundy to get married and have babies together. Alice, rightly, went after Mrs. Grundy for abusing a minor. And Grundy had the decency to at least try to hide what they were doing because she knew it wasn't right. All things PLL seemed to miss.

So, while I agree it wasn't a great storyline, I don't get why they had it there in the first place, at least it was handled correctly, like the bad, shameful thing it was instead of paraded around as true love. And it was just a small side story and it ended.

Yup. This. I said it a few days ago, this show made it what it was. Unlike pretty little liars who framed the teacher student relationship as a great epic love story. 

[Mabinogia]

1 hour ago, WhosThatGirl said:

And then all these things happen and none of these characters have chosen to discuss it. Archie and Betty kiss and then never mention it again? Archie tells Veronica because Cheryl knows and doesn’t tell Betty any of this? Because the way Betty has been acting, it doesn’t seem like she knows Veronica knows. Also I don’t think Veronica wouldn’t at least  talk to Betty about it, but beronica and Betty haven’t been actual friends since probably episode seven.

I want to think the show is doing this in an attempt to sell the idea that without each other these kids are lost, that they need each other because they make each other better, stronger, but that is all in my head. The show hasn't really shown any of them missing their friendship. There was a little pining from Juggy towards Betty, but no missing of their friendships at all.

 

1 minute ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Yup. This. I said it a few days ago, this show made it what it was. Unlike pretty little liars who framed the teacher student relationship as a great epic love story. 

This is the only thing giving me hope that maybe the cam girl storyline will be more than just trying to get Lily in her underwear as much as possible. They did a decent job with the teacher/student affair. But then they did royally screw up the junior gang leader storyline so who knows which way cam girl will go. I have no hope at all that the Chic storyline will be redeemed. They need to just shoot it like they did Black Hood and put us all out of our misery.

[mtlchick]

I'm starting to wonder if the show KNOWS it's becoming a farce that some of the plot points are deliberately bad for a reason or they really think they're doing good work and the scenes are not intentionally stupid but are certainly coming off as such.  There's being absurd and then there is "seriously, what the hell did I just watch?" 

[WhosThatGirl]

36 minutes ago, mtlchick said:

I'm starting to wonder if the show KNOWS it's becoming a farce that some of the plot points are deliberately bad for a reason or they really think they're doing good work and the scenes are not intentionally stupid but are certainly coming off as such.  There's being absurd and then there is "seriously, what the hell did I just watch?" 

This. I feel this way too. I really don’t know what to think. I used to think this about one tree hill, especially in the later years that everyone involved knew it was becoming insane and that’s what they were planning but then when the series ended, the network had a retrospective about it and no.. they were serious about the plots they had done. And I was like “wow okay”.

[Chas411]

I honestly think the shows biggest downfall is how seriously it's taken itself this season so no i don't think they're aware how awful it is. If they were there's be humour jotted around like there was last season instead of this big long cringefest we've been getting. 

[PeekaBoo]

They really can't take themselves seriously, can they?!?!

I'm thinking that they might be aware of certain elements not working (*coughing* blackhood/RedCircle*) but I'm wondering whether they are convinced they have these "great fab" ideas and stories going on.

Sometimes I'm wondering whether it's all part of RAS's masterplan, that he wants to thrown everyone away, with clues and nonsense only to come back with a pang! and then everything suddenly makes sense. Wishful thinking I know... I'm ever so gullible and naïve!! I'm hoping for the best lol!!!

17 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

The last episode that seemed to remember that Betty, Jughead, Archie, and Veronica are friends as the first episode this season.

And then all these things happen and none of these characters have chosen to discuss it. Archie and Betty kiss and then never mention it again? Archie tells Veronica because Cheryl knows and doesn’t tell Betty any of this? Because the way Betty has been acting, it doesn’t seem like she knows Veronica knows. Also I don’t think Veronica wouldn’t at least  talk to Betty about it, but beronica and Betty haven’t been actual friends since probably episode seven.

A part of me wanted to give the show credit and think maybe thebshow was having Veronica make a deliberate choice in putting some distance between her and Betty because of the kiss, but I don’t think the show reallly cares enough to do that. If anything, this friendship is just not as important as Veronica having a Godfather storyline with her father and singing songs from cruel Intentions.

Even if the back second half of this season is better, it’s still running a mile minute with no real time to breathe and to me, no real plot point. Just a shocking scene to fit into a promo and to end the episode on. 

THat's what i'm going for... It's with these types of comments that you realize how little time the core four has had and now we have the next ep to look forward to (meaning not!) and we're all, yeah, they're finally exchanging words together and then they go for drama with veronica and betty doing god knows what... Sigh...

Veronica and Betty have had soooo much going on lately with obsessive killers chasing after them and seeing your dad DonCorleone fading in the background in favour of an evilQueen while you're singing snake songs  that one little (yet mega-wow factor) kiss can be easily be brushed aside and be brought up again for a sexy cabin trip... (majorly rolling eyes right now)... It's so ridiculous... Only in Riverdale!!!  

 God I love to that the show lol!!

[WhosThatGirl]

Yeah. I was really excited for this batch of episodes and super excited for the next episode but based on the preview I keep getting less excited. It doesn’t look like I’m going to enjoy anything that happens in that episode actually. 

Eta: also yeah someone else said it best that maybe while I’m having a problem with this season is that it wants to have the show be both ways. It wants to be extremely ridiculous but also include some very real life things. Like they want to have a gang story but then they want us to believe the gang is just doing things because of some Native American back story because we can’t hate the gang too much, they really are good even if they are scalping people! And I’ve said enough about what they’ve been making the Betty do this season.. which stops being creepy and veers into real life uncomfortableness. But whatever. 

Edited February 13, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[Mabinogia]

58 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Like they want to have a gang story but then they want us to believe the gang is just doing things because of some Native American back story because we can’t hate the gang too much

The thing is, something like this would have worked if there had been any sign beforehand that 1) the gang were Native American which, I don't think so. They mostly seem like typical white bikers. 2) they had ever mentioned this huge Native American population that was so recently decimated. Instead it feels like you said, they realized they had to make the gang more sympathetic because the audience wasn't on their side so they picked an oppressed group and shoehorned them into the story. 

Much of this season has felt like them trying to find a way to make us like the mess they made. They are fumbling around in the dark trying to find the thing that will bring the audience back to their side. The sad thing is, all they had to do was tell a single storyline (like Jason's murder last year) pepper in some good character moments, some core four bonding and BAM another successful season. Instead they took away everything that was good about last season, the humor, the core four friendship, the focused storytelling and focused on the least interesting bits, the teen angst and drama. They removed all that made this show unique and different and turned it into every other teen drama. 

I hope they learn from this season and get back to what made this show special.

[Daltrey]

On the plus side, Gabby's has gotten a lot more screen time this season, lol.

[methodwriter85]

Penelope Blossom and Hal. Okay. Honestly, I love that even without Clifford and the Jason murder, the Blossoms manage to stay crazy.

[queenanne]

I admit I haven't read past episode's plaints lately, just this episode; but I can't be the only person who finds it uber weird that they've had Hal have basically no reaction to "his son" outside of a vague generally placed hostility, can I?  It's plainly bad writing to me, designed for no other reason than because the writer's room can't quite figure out yet what the denouement of Chic is yet, and are anxious not to box themselves into a corner into which they have to write themselves out of.  We've had no "blame me, when I never wanted the kid, Alice?"  We've had no "how do you know this kid isn't an imposter?"  (Hal's danced around the latter; but he hasn't said it.  Instead, he's said weird generalities.)  But primarily, I'm irritated the wig out because it's so plainly obvious to me that the only reason anyone hasn't said anything, is because they're waiting to tell us that Chic is Alice's secret kid with FP (no spoilers, I promise, but that's so clearly the way it's going unless this Chic is a full-on imposter, because there's no hint or inkling that Hal feels in any way positive or even conflicted about Chic.  He just flat out treats the kid like a fifth wheel).