S02.E12: Chapter Twenty-Five: The Wicked and the Divine

[The Crazed Spruce]

Quote

Veronica worries that Archie is learning too much about her family's secret business dealings; an incident at Pickens Park raises tension among the Serpents; Chic tries to help Betty with her inner darkness.

[WhosThatGirl]

Okay first off: I hate the cam stuff. Obviously it’s happening but it’s gross and everything and Chic is bad news and awful. Case in point Betty coming home to find that guys dead body and blood. But seriously the cam storyline is so uncomfortable to me.

 

I also dislike the Lodge story and Archie and probably Faux fbi agent and find it so boring and tedious. It’s not interesting at all to me. Also I called them buying SS high a long time ago!

 

Same with The serpents.  Ugh. Any scene with them is so boring and all the same. Like sorry Jughead but adults aren’t going to listen to you. Also really.. Jughead is an idiot. Why did he start taking stupid pills this season?  Also Hiram Lodge wants to destroy the serpents. Not surprised.

 

But finally Bughead and finally the first time! Aw! I’m a little sad Betty didn’t mention the Archie kiss, I don’t know how I feel about that. I also am sad that they were no I love Yous exchanges but that scene was so good. So good! Also loved them investigating together again! So cute. This was the Bughead I missed. Also no surprise that Tall Boy is the one who took the head. But show this was a good episode for Bughead keep it up and I’ll forgive you possibly show! Please don’t keep the Archie thing holding over their head for long and also please reinstate them saying I Love Yous again soon! 

 

I don’t know. The Bughead stuff was really good.. everything else not so much. I don’t really like any of the actual stories that are going on. The gang storyline is bad, The Lodges and Archie are things I’ve seen before, I hate the Chic story because of course he’s strange and odd and into cam sexual stuff and of course Betty is now going to be into that and fear writers way to be tone deaf on the times I thought the HOTD episode was bad but I gave you a pass and also now there’s a dead person in this mess too, of course. It’s just not good. I would have been okay without ever meeting Chic Cooper. He’s adding nothing to the show, he’s making it worse. 

[Dee]

EVERYTHING about The Serpents storyline is GROSSLY offensive.

[Advance35]

Ok, well, Betty, Ugh, I can't even.  I've never been super into her but now.......well whatever.  

Couldn't feel too bad for Jughead getting put on "probation."  He and a gang of grown men, held a woman down in the woods and took a knife to her.  Shakes head, I'm content for them to be the headliners, I am perfectly able to enjoy the B-Plots, at least for the most part.

It's the little things with the Lodges.  I like that the modiste has to come to THEM to work on Veronica's confirmation dress.  LOL. And the girl really does have a flare for drama. Hooded cloaks as opposed to coats, and confession episodes packed with the dramatic tension of Madame Butterfly.  I'm convinced the inside of Veronica's head is a never-ending novella, cranked up to x1000.  But having said that, Archie is her "beacon"?!?!?!?  Veronica's destiny is VILLAINY.  Mark my words.  This girl is going to crash HARD.

Those Lodges, I love the way the sun reflects off their scales when they coil. LOL.  So it's ACTUAL crime that the Lodge family is involved in.  I notice Hermione seems serpentine even when amongst her own.  That say's a lot.  And by the way, the Jacket she wore to Veronica's confirmation was flawless.

So the McCoy's come back, hat in hand.  Josie really is just a puppet.  In order for her to articulate an independent thought, she would need her mother to scribble it down to musical notes.  The depth of a mud puddle.  Can we nix her and give more screen time to Mayor McCoy?  Her power grabs and her sordid affair with Sheriff Keller warrant more story time. 

[Demian]

Quote

EVERYTHING about The Serpents storyline is GROSSLY offensive.

EVERYTHING about this EPISODE is GROSS.

But delightfully so.  This episode went full batshit, and I am completely here for that.

[Guest]

I loved that Jughead was able to solve the mystery of the missing head based on the junkman's description of the perp as being "tall."  There's definitely an investigative journalism career in his future.

[WhosThatGirl]

2 minutes ago, Demian said:

EVERYTHING about this EPISODE is GROSS.

But delightfully so.  This episode went full batshit, and I am completely here for that.

I thought it was kind of boring. I liked the Bughead stuff a little bit since it’s so tainted in the stupid gang story I’m over it at times too. Plus I hate the cam story, it’s really uncomfortable and confusing and I don’t get it. But to each their own. I’ve felt this way for the past two episodes and as I read on the forums I’m usually alone in a boat by myself and that’s fine.

[jay741982]

9 minutes ago, Demian said:

EVERYTHING about this EPISODE is GROSS.

But delightfully so.  This episode went full batshit, and I am completely here for that.

Agreed! I was enthralled and kept saying this fucking show WTF LOL. 

On another note LOVE seeing Bughead and they sealed the deal having their First time. I may be just a bit biased but their hookup was a little steamy yet I wanted a bit more. Not big on Betty not telling Juggy about Barchie Kiss but I think I understand why she didn't tell him right there. They were gonna fuck and she just wanted him badly lol. Also in that scene I was reminded of Olicity from Arrow first Sexytimes a bit and Im really wanting Bughead as OTP like Olicity is so I'm hoping that was a sign lol

Edited February 1, 2018 by jay741982

[Demian]

Quote

I’ve felt this way for the past two episodes and as I read on the forums I’m usually alone in a boat by myself and that’s fine.

Totally cool -- I picked up weird Goodfellas and Godfather vibes, which were entirely entertaining to me, but I get how it might have put off viewers with other interests.

I do like how Betty's becoming more and more like her mother, as far as facial cues go.  I'm thinking the actresses are working with each other to enhance their characters' connection through those shared facial expressions, and I'm loving it.  I've always thought Mädchen Amick was a horribly underrated actress, and I'm very happy she's killing it on this show.

[methodwriter85]

33 minutes ago, Demian said:

EVERYTHING about this EPISODE is GROSS.

But delightfully so.  This episode went full batshit, and I am completely here for that.

Yeah, I enjoyed that. Until said otherwise, I'm choosing to believe that was Chic's pimp.

[UNOSEZ]

Poor josie having to sit and be humiliated like that... I sure hope she snaps soon... That could not be me... Was it weird that all the dudes at the poker game were white and all their wives were Latina.. That just felt off somehow... I feel like Kevin said something this week but I wouldn't put money on it... 
Still no Reggie... Also no nutball Cheryl and  her zany mom... 

So Betty was being Petty abt toni and then decided (very stereotypically like a dude)  to not bring up potentially really bad news until after she got some juggy lovin

Archie was allright this epi.. No complaints and no dumb moves.. 

Did feel like the "previously on Riverdale" was a bit misleading as I thought the story would focus more on toni and the fallout from the article.. But they went a diff way with it and the evictions... 

F. P was great too

To close... Poor Josie ima need that sister to channel her inner Aretha real soon. 

[SeanC]

In the realm of minor, irrelevant details that the show gets wrong, Veronica makes a big deal about getting her friends invited to her Confirmation as if it's normally a family-only affair, which...no.  Confirmations (when they're held specially and not as part of a regular service) are open affairs; literally anybody can show up, assuming they know when it's being held.

Good episode.  I like the way they're handling Archie's situation regarding Hiram and Veronica.

[emcmac87]

So I'm only 10 minutes in, but it seems they are implying Catholisicsm with Veronica.  My "grandfather" ( his brother died early so he stepped in) was a priest so I've tried to be accurate with my info. Confirmation happens around 16-18years old, because the point is that you are making your own choice to be a member of the church. First communion is done around age 8( when u can receive the Eucharist) and that's when everyone wears diff white dresses  Prob wrote too much about this. 

But weird they changed confirmation when it was actually correct for their characters timeline. 

Edited February 1, 2018 by emcmac87

[AzureOwl]

10 minutes ago, SeanC said:

In the realm of minor, irrelevant details that the show gets wrong, Veronica makes a big deal about getting her friends invited to her Confirmation as if it's normally a family-only affair, which...no.  Confirmations (when they're held specially and not as part of a regular service) are open affairs; literally anybody can show up, assuming they know when it's being held.

I got the impression that Veronica saw the ceremony and the party afterwards as a complete package. The Confirmation ceremony might not be a family-only affair but the party at home certainly was. 

BTW, was what Veronica said about the age of Confirmation right? Is it customary in the US to have it at 12 or 13? Because my Confirmation was when I was 16 years old.

5 minutes ago, emcmac87 said:

So I'm only 10 minutes in, but it seems they are implying Catholisicsm with Veronica.  My "grandfather" ( his brother early so he stepped in) was a priest so I've tried to be accurate with my info. Confirmation usually happens around senior year of high school age, because the whole the point is that you are making your own choice to be a member of the church. And it doesn't involve special dresses. First communion is done around age 8 and does involve  white dresses. 

Honestly don't know why they would change things, when it was already accurate. 

She was getting a bishop to perform the ceremony specially for her. There was nothing standard about that ceremony, from the dress to the singing, and everything else. 

[WhosThatGirl]

All of the Bughead scenes were so good. I just worry because they didn’t say I love you and that scene didn’t confirm that they were officially back together but I’m assuming that’s happening next week or I hope it is! I also worry about the non reveal of the barchie kiss. Also it was both Jughead and Betty’s first eight? Pretty sure about 99% sure it was bettys based on te moment when she looked in the mirror after. Iffy if it was Jugheads but who knows.

I hate the cam stuff.  It’s gross. Also going to say it again I don’t like the Chic story at all. And they’ve made it worse by bringing in the cam stuff. I’m always going to call it that perhaps he’s not end the real chic cooper.

i don’t even care about the Lodge stuff.

[WhosThatGirl]

3 minutes ago, Sonoma said:

My opinion about the dumb mistakes that Jughead and Betty have made, are making, and will continue to make? They're 16. It's hard to remember given that they're played by two of the most beautiful adults on the planet who have crazy chemistry,  but they're teenagers who sometimes make bad decisions. I'd be more concerned if Betty and Jughead were in their mid-20s and doing these dumb things like trying to be a gang leader or webcamming out of curiosity. 

Yeah but the cam stuff just feels gross and like it’s going to lead bad stuff Betty can’t undo or come back from. Same with Jughead and the gang stuff but we’ve all talked about that too. The problem is the show is making them do things that even at 16 they might not be able to come back from.

And sometimes I think the show writers want them to not be 16 with all the thins they are making them do.

Edited February 1, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[emcmac87]

20 minutes ago, AzureOwl said:

I got the impression that Veronica saw the ceremony and the party afterwards as a complete package. The Confirmation ceremony might not be a family-only affair but the party at home certainly was. 

BTW, was what Veronica said about the age of Confirmation right? Is it customary in the US to have it at 12 or 13? Because my Confirmation was when I was 16 years old.

She was getting a bishop to perform the ceremony specially for her. There was nothing standard about that ceremony, from the dress to the singing, and everything else. 

I'm sure I quoted wrong, I tried like 3 times and just hoped for the best haha.  I agree she saw the ceremony and party as package deal.  In my experience, the age of Confirmation was really weird, and if the Monsignor was so important(especially considering there money and influence), they could have had him perform the ceremony.  But Veronica is the correct age for it, so its just weird they changed that, since besides that, and the cotillion like dress, the community service, renouncing satan, and needing a sponsor are all accurate. I totally agree that was a Super Special Snowflake ceremony(I didn't know private home Easter service wasn't a thing for a long time), but why change the age thing.  Just irritates me, but then again confession is pretty much always inaccurate and the town of Riverdale is in a vacuum.  Because of my grandfather I get way too irritated about misrepresentations.    

[WhosThatGirl]

6 minutes ago, Sonoma said:

It's Riverdale! Trust me they're going to be able to come back from their messes in some batshit fashion. And then move on to the next Riverdale crazy. I strongly believe it helps to watch this show by taking only the characters' feelings seriously (love stories, friendships, family), but suspending all belief and breaking from reality while taking in the actual plots and storylines. If this episode is an indicator that they've turned a corner this season from that depressing first half, bring me more please!

Yeah, I guess. I’m here for Bughead that’s for sure. To me that’s one relationship they built up really well and then single handed ruined the first half. Like I said in an earlier post, keep them communicating with each other like they did tonight and I’m here for that. I’m really happy with everything Bughead got tonight.

[paulvdb]

48 minutes ago, AzureOwl said:

BTW, was what Veronica said about the age of Confirmation right? Is it customary in the US to have it at 12 or 13? Because my Confirmation was when I was 16 years old.

I don't know about the US, but here in The Netherlands it's around 12. Or at least it was 30 years ago when I was 12 years old.

[Snookums]

Quote

 But seriously the cam storyline is so uncomfortable to me.

Me too, because Betty IS UNDERAGE and the internet is forever. Chic's probably recording her sessions to blackmail her with. Of course, he'd be in as much trouble as her, but clearly this dude and Good Life Decisions mutually swiped left some time ago. The rest of the whole "Elizabeth, I know this looks bad but lock the front door and grab a mop!" angle, though? is the kind of the over the top crazy I love about shows like Riverdale. 

Yaaaaaaay! for Betty and Jug finally getting their timing right! However, here's another reason I don't like the cam girl storyline, beyond the obvious: when Betty stops and does the whole "I gotta  tell you something---er, no I don't," I thought that's what she was talking about; I had totally forgotten the whole kiss thing. 

Now, if the cam girl stuff didn't exist, I could see The Kiss becoming it's proper kind of oversized secret, the kind that a bunch of teenagers would blow up into Drama Llama All-World Championship finals stuff. It's seen as world shaking but the consequences are only what the writers/characters decide for it: nobody's getting preggers or arrested or publicly humiliated. It's a kiss and they can all shake out the relationship dynamics without permanent fallout. Veronica "accidentally" tells Jug, Jug confronts Betty, Betty confronts Ronnie, Archie stands around like a dumbass, etc.

But bring in the "porn on the net" and frankly, we're in much deeper territory; much like with Jughead mutilating the Snake Charmer, it escalates things way beyond "fun and funny" into HOLY SHIT.  I get escalating stakes but there's different kinds of poker--when you go from penny ante into high roller there's really nowhere beyond that, and all the stuff that came before seems silly for the characters to worry about.

But anyway! This one had lots of bits I really enjoyed:

Ronnie's whole Confirmation as Showstopper thing: how important is this Monsignor guy that he apparently can't get away for one night, or have the Lodges go to New York for the ceremony? I especially loved the whole "let's sing a secular song for the religious portion of the ceremony in front of the Altar and God and everyone" bit. I mean, it wasn't disrespectful in itself with the lyrics or anything but wouldn't a hymn be the more traditional choice? Ronnie's convenient skipping over of all that extramarital boning was a riot too--confession means ALL the sins, V! 

Josie is now officially being played by a block of modeling clay and I wish the writers would get to her rebellious phase sooner rather than later (or more probably, never.) When you think back, the show has actually set up this dynamic between her and her mom all along: Mayor McCoy has been really overinvested in her career and professionalism and whatever, and Josie's Dad has apparently decided that purity of jazz is more important than supporting his daughter so she's really got no one else. So naturally when McCoy drags her here and there for use towards her own nefarious ends she's much more used to giving in than fighting. Here's hoping that changes soon. Perhaps Melody and Val could drift by, glare disapprovingly, and vanish back into the hoary netherworld.

(Say, I forgot to ask last week; are the McCoys still staying at the Five Seasons? Isn't the Black Hood supposedly dead? Is this on the taxpayers' dime? What does Sierra know that she's afraid to go home?)

Archie's being the Faux FBI guy's stalking horse is clearly getting more irritating for him than he expected it to be, hee. I hope something occurs that shakes Archie's dumb puppy trust soon; like maybe finding out Papa Poutine (oh brother) isn't dead? Because if he is that does lend credence the idea that Agent Don't Bother Calling To Confirm My Authenticity's the real deal--or more likely that he shot the guy himself. Ugh, this whole Godfather thing is getting to be Black Hood II--so much trouble the show will eventually drop it like a Cheryl Stalker Storyline.

[WhosThatGirl]

8 minutes ago, Snookums said:

Me too, because Betty IS UNDERAGE and the internet is forever. Chic's probably recording her sessions to blackmail her with. Of course, he'd be in as much trouble as her, but clearly this dude and Good Life Decisions mutually swiped left some time ago. The rest of the whole "Elizabeth, I know this looks bad but lock the front door and grab a mop!" angle, though? is the kind of the over the top crazy I love about shows like Riverdale. 

Yaaaaaaay! for Betty and Jug finally getting their timing right! However, here's another reason I don't like the cam girl storyline, beyond the obvious: when Betty stops and does the whole "I gotta  tell you something---er, no I don't," I thought that's what she was talking about; I had totally forgotten the whole kiss thing. 

Now, if the cam girl stuff didn't exist, I could see The Kiss becoming it's proper kind of oversized secret, the kind that a bunch of teenagers would blow up into Drama Llama All-World Championship finals stuff. It's seen as world shaking but the consequences are only what the writers/characters decide for it: nobody's getting preggers or arrested or publicly humiliated. It's a kiss and they can all shake out the relationship dynamics without permanent fallout. Veronica "accidentally" tells Jug, Jug confronts Betty, Betty confronts Ronnie, Archie stands around like a dumbass, etc.

But bring in the "porn on the net" and frankly, we're in much deeper territory; much like with Jughead mutilating the Snake Charmer, it escalates things way beyond "fun and funny" into HOLY SHIT.  I get escalating stakes but there's different kinds of poker--when you go from penny ante into high roller there's really nowhere beyond that, and all the stuff that came before seems silly for the characters to worry about.

But anyway! This one had lots of bits I really enjoyed:

Ronnie's whole Confirmation as Showstopper thing: how important is this Monsignor guy that he apparently can't get away for one night, or have the Lodges go to New York for the ceremony? I especially loved the whole "let's sing a secular song for the religious portion of the ceremony in front of the Altar and God and everyone" bit. I mean, it wasn't disrespectful in itself with the lyrics or anything but wouldn't a hymn be the more traditional choice? Ronnie's convenient skipping over of all that extramarital boning was a riot too--confession means ALL the sins, V! 

Josie is now officially being played by a block of modeling clay and I wish the writers would get to her rebellious phase sooner rather than later (or more probably, never.) When you think back, the show has actually set up this dynamic between her and her mom all along: Mayor McCoy has been really overinvested in her career and professionalism and whatever, and Josie's Dad has apparently decided that purity of jazz is more important than supporting his daughter so she's really got no one else. So naturally when McCoy drags her here and there for use towards her own nefarious ends she's much more used to giving in than fighting. Here's hoping that changes soon. Perhaps Melody and Val could drift by, glare disapprovingly, and vanish back into the hoary netherworld.

(Say, I forgot to ask last week; are the McCoys still staying at the Five Seasons? Isn't the Black Hood supposedly dead? Is this on the taxpayers' dime? What does Sierra know that she's afraid to go home?)

Archie's being the Faux FBI guy's stalking horse is clearly getting more irritating for him than he expected it to be, hee. I hope something occurs that shakes Archie's dumb puppy trust soon; like maybe finding out Papa Poutine (oh brother) isn't dead? Because if he is that does lend credence the idea that Agent Don't Bother Calling To Confirm My Authenticity's the real deal--or more likely that he shot the guy himself. Ugh, this whole Godfather thing is getting to be Black Hood II--so much trouble the show will eventually drop it like a Cheryl Stalker Storyline.

Thank you for stating what I had trouble with the cam stuff. Internet is forever and that’s what I mean when I say things like I think the people who work on the  the show wishes and wants the teens to be older. The stories they are giving them seem more suitable for seniors in high school, hell even juniors, not sophomores which is what the gang is. 

Also.. Betty is already in it. I had hoped she wouldn’t be in it and the preview was misleading but she was already engaging in the cam stuff with someone right? When Alice knocked on her door she was talking to someone..

And yeah.. maybe I shouldn’t take this story and I should remove it and just watch for the relationships with the characters  but this story will affect Betty and Jughead probably. To me.. that’s probably what’s going to cause trouble for them. A kiss is something I think they can get over and deal with the repercussions, doing cam girl stuff is something else entirely.

[Nefercat]

In the US Catholic Church, the bishop of a diocese can set the age of confirmation for somewhere between 7 (considered the age of reason) and 16. It’s most common to have it in early high school (14-16), but it depends on the individual diocese. 

 

Alice continues to make me laugh. Hal: “I want my way or I’m leaving.” Alice: “Okay. Bye.” Hal has a point about the whole stranger-in-the-house thing, but Hal is also a jerk face so I’m on Team Alice in any of their disagreements. Love that Alice is in full-on Lady Macbeth mode because why not, Show. 

 

Other than the FBI scenes, Archie is slightly less gollygeewillikers in these recent episodes and it’s a nice change. 

 

I missed Cheryl. In a show chock full of bonkers characters, she’s my fave. But at least there was a Bughead hookup. Hope they’re back together for a while. Maybe Juggy can use his ace investigative journalism skillz to figure out who Chic really is!

“Excuse me, sir, I saw an ad in my booth at Pop’s about you looking for your missing son. Can you describe your son?”

“Well, he had cheekbones...”

”Cheekbones? That’s definitely the guy calling himself Chic Cooper! I’ve gotta tell Betty before it’s too late!”

[twoods]

Besides all the hotness of Bughead (squee!), we got to see Jughead's glorious hair again. He looks so good when he doesn't have that ugly hat on, and it's a  travesty we don't see it as often. Maybe one of the serpents will burn it, because that hair deserves its own show.

I'm so glad that they threw all these great Bughead scenes to almost take the nasty taste from my mouth of the cam crap. Besides being underaged, how long is Betty going to keep this creepiness from Jug? Also, she should have told him about Archie. He just told her he didn't "stuff" with Toni- a kiss wouldn't have been that big of a deal.

I like that Ronnie is trying to shield Archie from her family's corrupt business, but I don't get the 180 because she was against the shady business last season.

Edited February 1, 2018 by twoods

[Snookums]

Quote

Alice continues to make me laugh. Hal: “I want my way or I’m leaving.” Alice: “Okay. Bye.” Hal has a point about the whole stranger-in-the-house thing, but Hal is also a jerk face so I’m on Team Alice in any of their disagreements. Love that Alice is in full-on Lady Macbeth mode because why not, Show.

I love how Hal is the one who's actually making the good point but Alice is the one who's all yeah but YOU'RE A SCUMMY JERKFACE and she just wins everything. 

[WhosThatGirl]

4 minutes ago, Sonoma said:

Jughead confessed to Betty that he MUTILATED a woman. He violently hurt someone. Betty was appropriately horrified but didn't judge him nor hold it against him. If Jughead were to turn around and judge Betty for webcamming, an action that only affected herself and something she did when they were not even together, and allow this to hurt their relationship, he would be a complete hypocrite. I don't see Jughead doing that.

 

I hope so. But I never know with the show and where they plan on going with things, story wise. I hope she tells him about the cam stuff though.

 

Also it seems like they are hinting at a Veronica and Archie breakup, Veronica doesn’t want Archie in her family’s dealings and Hiram implied a sort of ultimatum with if they keep dating, he’s gotta be in or out. I know Archie is also doing his own thing that could screw it up with the FBI guy whose probably not really FBI but I feel like Hiram is going to try and find a way to break up Veronica and Archie too. Or Corrupt Archie despite what Veronica wants.

Edited February 1, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[twoods]

8 minutes ago, Sonoma said:

A kiss with just anyone is not a big deal. A kiss with Archie is a bigger one. Jughead already had, maybe even still has, insecurities about her past feelings towards Archie. When they were talking about their break up in episode 2x6, he straight out told her that having Archie do it made it worse for him. Then he brought up Archie breaking up with him for her again when he confessed about Toni. So as much as I didn't like it I can see why she was hesitant about telling him.

You're right, but it's more manufactured drama to put a wedge between the two of them when they start dating again. It was refreshing that Archie just told Ronnie without the angst, but Betty was the one in love with Archie so I can see why Jughead would be hurt. I hope that when he finds out, he would understand because after they started dating, Betty never seemed into Archie at all. Please don't screw them up again, writers!

[UNOSEZ]

So... Betty thinks it's OK to strip in front of grown men and her mom.. And be a cam girl but almost killed Chuck for posting a puc of Veronica with some syrup or pancakes.. I kinda forget now... Hmmm allright riverdale

[WhosThatGirl]

3 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

So... Betty thinks it's OK to strip in front of grown men and her mom.. And be a cam girl but almost killed Chuck for posting a puc of Veronica with some syrup or pancakes.. I kinda forget now... Hmmm allright riverdale

I don’t think we are really supposed to remember anything that happened in season 1. Like I pretend season was a different universe and season 2 is it’s own universe. It sort of makes things easier sometimes. So yeah whatever Chuck did last season doesn’t really factor in this Riverdale reality.

Edited February 1, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[tennisgurl]

Jughead is almost two characters sometimes. When he is with Betty or any of the rest of the gang, I like him a lot. He and Betty are cute and have great chemistry, and his relationships with his other friends are actually interesting. Then we get to his Serpent stuff, and I just roll my eyes. I have no idea how we went from them as a scary gang Jughead was so desperate to avoid that he preferred being homeless to living with FP, to him being all Ride or Die for these guys. The writers have basically had to retcon the gang as misunderstood rebels against evil Northsiders who are also oppressed Native Americans (or something) to have it make any kind of sense. 

Anyway, I do so enjoy this show when it embraces the crazy. There is no worse Riverdale than a boring Riverdale, and this was NOT boring. It wasn't that perfect combination of story, character, and camp that we get when this show is at its best, but it had its moments, certainly more so than the last few episodes. 

Ronnie and religion is one of my new favorite things. Granted, I dont know how it lines up with any kind of Riverdale (I was about Veronica's age when I had my confirmation, and it was a year long prep process) but Riverdale gonna Riverdale. Reality is kind of like Riverdales weather forecast: Inconsistent, often nonsense, and basically dependent on Cheryl's outfit of the day. 

I can increasingly see why Jughead and Betty are so into each other, they escalate things so quickly! Jughead went from doing some odd jobs for his dads gang, to being a full member and mutilating and almost killing people, and Betty decided to explore her darker, sexier side, so she goes from sexy cheer-leading to public striptease at a biker bar and THEN she becomes a cam girl! That is a horrible idea on every level, and its making me feel pretty uncomfortable. I feel like it will come back at some point to bite her, but maybe now. Who knows on this show?

[WhosThatGirl]

Yeah. I’m never going to like the cam story. I find it really disturbing and uncomfortable and I don’t think anything is going to change that for me and I really wish it wasn’t happening.

I did love the Bughead moments though. They were this episodes highlight.

i still hate the gang story.  I agree that it’s really hard to understand how season 1 Jughead got to season 2. He basically resisted the gang for all of a day and then was all in it. 

And nothing else I find interesting. I wish I cared about the Lodges and whatever is going on there but I don’t. 

Edited February 1, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[PeekaBoo]

OMG.

The world is safe again...

I really got season 1 vibes out of this episode, it brought back a lot of nostalgia, don't if it was just the bughead duo sleuthing around but half-way through I was, hey, this is what I used to liked about the show! So bravo show for that part!

The  whole confirmation thing was blah... A bit boring if not for all the evil crime villains meeting up... It was nice seeing Mr.Friendly again (wasn't that his nickname on Lost?) but really papa poutine!?!?! LOL!! LOL!!! MWahaahahah.... Sorry, is that the only thing French-Canadians are known for when they're mentioned?!?! Poutine?!?! And the fleur-de-lys pin on his coat? type-cast  really?!?! lol... I guess now we know who sent the dudes to trash Fred's construction site last season, huh? I had hoped we would have gotten to see Mr.Friendly some more but oh well...

Ok, ok, getting sidetracked... THat hiram is one oozingly evil guy. I just don't like him anymore, at all! I don't care what his SoDale plans are or that he's really a good dad to veronica, he just bad!  Taking out the guy that was going to take him out, interfering with the Serpents to create havoc in the SS, anything just to get things his way. I gotta feel for Veronica because she's probably aware of this and can't get away from that. So yes, I feel a Varchie break-up is going to happen soon, she's going to find out about what Archie's been up to and god knows it's not going to go well.... Other than that, I liked the whole mobster thing...

Archie is becoming more interesting, i'm liking this arc! He's clearly conflicted and he really is out to help Veronica and support her.

Wasn't that guy that was leaving the Cooper mansion, the guy that worked at the Bijou, the same guy that worked at the drive-in and the same guy that was kissing Grundy this season? ?

And Bughead, bless my heart.. I'm happy they cleared the air and that Jughead (at least) told her everything that had happened between him and Toni and the skinning and all that stuff... I wished Betty could have been more forthcoming in her own revelations but that's the way it is, I can imagine her stuff might be "more hurtful"... I think she's afraid he might react wrose with the Barchie kiss or the webcam thing... While most likely he'll be "ok" with the Barchie kiss, something tells me the webcam thing won't be for now, maybe at the cabin... So they're back together, their scenes were adorable, the end was perfect, they just wanted it and they went for it, :D :D :D

THe whole serpent thing is just annoying... I'm glad they didn't make the whole penny thing a bigger than what it was... The thing between Fp + jug was heartbreaking, you could see how FP was disappointed in his kid... the heartbreak...

the ending... Yeah, I don't like Chic at all anymore...Now we don't know what happened or the whodunit but chic is bad news, kudos for hal to step up about that part...

loved the episode!

On an added note: It's funny how the mayor seems to be a revolving door at the mayor's office where anyone can just go in there and pretty much just say whatever they want... And she thinks she's safer at the hotel instead of her own house?!?! lol...

Now I'm craving for a poutine!!!

Edited February 1, 2018 by PeekaBoo
lots on my mind

[The Wild Sow]

7 hours ago, paulvdb said:

 

 

7 hours ago, paulvdb said:

8 hours ago, AzureOwl said:

BTW, was what Veronica said about the age of Confirmation right? Is it customary in the US to have it at 12 or 13? Because my Confirmation was when I was 16 years old.

I don't know about the US, but here in The Netherlands it's around 12. Or at least it was 30 years ago when I was 12 years old.

I was 11, in the 6th grade.  My youngest sister was 13.  Between 1969 and 1977.

A lot of girls in my class did wear white dresses, but I, thinking myself sophisticated, wore a navy blue suit!  And my first pair of little heels :-)

[absnow54]

Catholics and non-Catholic Christians have different confirmation traditions. I was raised Catholic, and believe I had mine at 14... maybe 15? My friends who were other types of Christian had there's a year or two earlier.

[Ruby Red]

So, this episode felt like it had better pacing than the last two episodes. The scenes did not feel as rushed, even when many different things were happening.

I find it difficult to really get that invested in all the characters. Because okay, the Lodges are shady and we all know Hiram is a dangerous man. But will Veronica ever find out that her father hasn't changed? Probably. I actually found myself liking the Archie and Veronica scenes this episode, and people can none should now say that Veronica is manipulating Archie!", they seemed genuine. But Archie is still a meh character to me, I think Veronica can do better. The stuff with Hiram and his family was predictable. It should be interesting to see Veronica's reaction when she finds out the truth. And how will she react over the whole Archie and the FBI thing? Even if it is a really silly plot for Archie, but oh well, it shows how he loves Veronica and wants to protect her too. 

The writers seem to be kind of lost on having Jughead understand the point of when Toni called him out on his own white privilege, and now it is like he is still not understanding it. That scene with FP was... Interesting and made me feel a little uncomfortable. It is not okay for FP to shove Jughead against a wall, and what he said to him about how Jughead destroys everything around him was a cruel thing to say. Like seriously, he is a 16-year old teenager. However, on the flip side, FP was not wrong with his freak out over Jughead skinning Penny. What made me uncomfortable was the wording, "Mutilating women., that gender-specific verb. Penny is an awful person, but I really wish the writers had never made Jughead do what he did.

Speaking of things I wish the writers never made their characters do, Betty and the cam girl thing... I suppose it came from feelings of loneliness but it was still creepy. Just why oh, why? She is 15/16!! Just like the Serpent dance, what were the writers thinking?

On a more brighter note. Betty and Jughead scenes, the sleuthing together has always been such a great part of their dynamic! They work so well together. And Jughead letting Betty in again, telling her she is the only he could talk to about this despite the fact he broke up with  her, but he can't help it. Him opening up to her, telling her about his kiss and groping session with Toni, realizing how he has made several dumb decisions, which included breaking up with her, and yes there was not a lot of reaction from Betty about skinning Penny..  But I think it would have been a little hypocritical after what she did to Chuck, which is equally bad. So I understood her lack of an extreme response. Neither of them are angels and have done pretty bad stuff - I am not certain yet if I like it, or at least from Jughead I still prefer season 1 Jug who I don't think would ever have done such thing, but perhaps it is another way for them to understand each other... So they don't really judge each other for their more uglier aspects of their personalities. If things only had been more consistent and executed better, but oh well...

So on to Betty and Jughead's first time and what lead up to it... Yes, I was bothered with the fact that Betty lied to him and did not tell him about kissing Archie when she may have almost been ready to confess when she said, "I need to tell you something.", I can understand why she got scared of doing so. This was the same guy that she loves who has been pushing her away, who has shut her out of his life, who was now finally communicating with her again, letting her in. Who told her that he was sorry for pushing her away, shielding her from his world and his "darkness" (they really need to stop using that word) and she said "I can handle it." and how he says "I know. I know you can.", he is giving back her agency and will hopefully stop making decisions for her like this to only push her away. When Betty asked Jughead about him and Toni, he mentioned Archie again, which implies that he still is dealing with some insecurities. How it still bothers him that Betty broke up with him via Archie. So, when Jughead asks Betty to stay, it tells her he is finally letting her in again. I think she really did not want to lose that, for him to build another wall like he has before, I think the whole point of her saying, "I just want you. I want all of you." was that he is the only one she wants and that kiss with Archie doesn't matter because it's not important for it to ruin the moment. She did not want him to feel bad like how he had been venting about all his bad decisions before. I think they both really needed those moments of intimacy again, many things in the episode showed how they still love each other without even having to say another "I love you." verbally. I don't think it was unrealistic, and they are teenagers. I did wish Betty had told him before, but it seemed like they just really needed it and it looked passionate, sweet and full of longing at once. And Betty’s smile as she came home at the Cooper’s was lovely! They still have things to talk about, but they can later, hopefully.

I would have liked something more out of their first time, a longer scene and a afterglow scene of them happy together with things like, “I missed you.” Etc. but I’ll accept this one. It is clear they have missed each other and they love each other, the episode showed us all of that without telling. We have other episodes for more opportunities of such scenes.

 And okay, that cliffhanger. I assume this was Chic’s doing and Alice is going to help cover the murder up I bet, and Betty roped in as well, probably. Chic inspiring Betty to be a cam girl was still a creepy move! Why don’t the writers understand that? And can't they give Betty a break?

[WhosThatGirl]

I think what’s making me have a sour taste about this episode a day later is the cam girl stuff. I actually liked this episode but I can’t get past this plot point and I really wish I could but it really sours a lot of the good moments for me.

I feel like the cam stuff is going to come back and be bad for Betty. I also don’t quite understand what the writers were thinking here. I was really hoping the previews were just showing her being curious about it but that first scene she was already in it and it bothers me.

Maybe I’m being dramatic but I don’t know.. i would have liked this episode without that and this just ruins it for me.

[Mabinogia]

I'm reserving judgement on the cam girl thing until I see what their intent was. It doesn't seem that out of character for Betty who stripped sadly in front of a bunch of drunk bikers. She has that dark side. I think that's going to be the point. I also think/hope Alice has that dark side too and really lets it rip on someone at some point. I love angry Alice.

The Lodge stuff....zzzzzzz They have managed to make gangsters dull. Archie should have done us all a favor and let that other guy kill Hiram.

When Hal said he was leaving I wondered if he was headed over to Chez Blossom. He's clearly not getting any from his wife, so why not?

This was a much better ep than the past several because Bughead were in scene's together, sleuthing and being adorable. I don't even care they had sex, I was just so happy to see them getting their Scooby on.

[WhosThatGirl]

The Lodge stuff is terribly boring and I feel like it’s been done better on other tv shows. I also have no idea where it’s all going.. Veronica seems aware that her dad and mom are still doing shady business stuff enough to not want Archie involved but i guess since it’s her own family she can’t do anything about it, but like I said in an earlier post, Hiram pretty much implied that this means she has to break it off with Archie if she doesn’t want him involved. So what? I’m kind of confused.

I still have judgement on the cam girl stuff, it’s gross and sadly I feel like the writers should know better.

[Mabinogia]

3 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

The Lodge stuff is terribly boring and I feel like it’s been done better on other tv shows. I also have no idea where it’s all going..

For a moment, when she was doing her confirmation and they had that darkness around her until she looked at Archie's big, goofy grin and a halo of light appeared around her, I thought she was having an epiphany about how fucking hypocritical her parents were to have her go through a ceremony that makes her denounce bad things while they are fucking gangsters who clearly do not hesitate to kill their enemies. I thought she'd tell daddy she wanted out. Instead she just wanted Archie out, but he's already in. So yeah, confusing.

I think the cam girl stuff is supposed to be gross. I think that's the point. Look how far down the rabbit hole Betty is willing to go. I think we're supposed to be upset about it and wanting it not be happening. They are showing how bad Chic is for her.

[WhosThatGirl]

9 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

For a moment, when she was doing her confirmation and they had that darkness around her until she looked at Archie's big, goofy grin and a halo of light appeared around her, I thought she was having an epiphany about how fucking hypocritical her parents were to have her go through a ceremony that makes her denounce bad things while they are fucking gangsters who clearly do not hesitate to kill their enemies. I thought she'd tell daddy she wanted out. Instead she just wanted Archie out, but he's already in. So yeah, confusing.

I think the cam girl stuff is supposed to be gross. I think that's the point. Look how far down the rabbit hole Betty is willing to go. I think we're supposed to be upset about it and wanting it not be happening. They are showing how bad Chic is for her.

Yeah. They didn’t really have Veronica made any real move, one way or the other regarding Archie and the bad things her family does. They haven’t made things clear.

The cam stuff is just ick. And for some reason I keep thinking the Chic we are seeing on screen might not be the real Chic Cooper. I don’t know why but it wouldn’t surpirise me if this ends up being the case. But can I also say I hate the Chic story? As I said it’s making the show kind of worse. I could have done without any of it. I’m also one of the very few people who doesn’t really like Dark Betty. 

[Mabinogia]

1 hour ago, WhosThatGirl said:

But can I also say I hate the Chic story? As I said it’s making the show kind of worse. I could have done without any of it. I’m also one of the very few people who doesn’t really like Dark Betty. 

I like the idea of Chic, in as far as I like the backstory that Alice was asked to get an abortion by her boyfriend, didn't, had the kid and gave him up, has regretted it ever since, and has to have some underlying resentment toward Hal. I just don't like how they decided to portray Chic, as some creepy stalker vid boy prostitute with an obsession with Betty. It wasn't needed IMO. He could have been some kid who was adopted by a family that loved him but he still felt drawn to darkness, maybe he harmed himself. There would have been enough drama in the "who's the daddy" speculation and Alice being disappointed that she didn't give him all that this other family did.

I just don't get why he has to be this super creepy lurking bad guy. But perhaps it was to show how far Alice is willing to go to protect her kids, because I think Chic killed that guy (or she did protecting him) and she's going to cover it up to protect him. Oh Hal, this is what happens when you leave the house. lol

[WhosThatGirl]

6 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

I like the idea of Chic, in as far as I like the backstory that Alice was asked to get an abortion by her boyfriend, didn't, had the kid and gave him up, has regretted it ever since, and has to have some underlying resentment toward Hal. I just don't like how they decided to portray Chic, as some creepy stalker vid boy prostitute with an obsession with Betty. It wasn't needed IMO. He could have been some kid who was adopted by a family that loved him but he still felt drawn to darkness, maybe he harmed himself. There would have been enough drama in the "who's the daddy" speculation and Alice being disappointed that she didn't give him all that this other family did.

I just don't get why he has to be this super creepy lurking bad guy. But perhaps it was to show how far Alice is willing to go to protect her kids, because I think Chic killed that guy (or she did protecting him) and she's going to cover it up to protect him. Oh Hal, this is what happens when you leave the house. lol

Yeah. Maybe I would have liked it more if it wasn’t so predictable. Because that’s what it is. They haven’t done anything in this story that I’ve been surprised by in the character and story, actually. 

[Ruby Red]

Oh yeah, something else.

1. I get the impression that Betty does not know that Veronica knows about the B/A kiss. She doesn't, does she? She acted so normal with her. It will probably be brought up eventually, I am not sure if it is a good sign of their friendship if Veronica acting like everything is fine when I am sure it must bother her still... Why do the writers not care enough about their friendship?
2. Also Jughead and Archie... Who have not have a proper scene either since their one scene in 2x09. . It was weird how at the start of the episode Jughead was at Pop's, sitting by the bar while Archie was right there with that suit and they did not even look at each other. It's weird, but it may build up to something more when the B/A kiss comes to light. Maybe Archie is purposely avoiding him...

Edited February 1, 2018 by Ruby Red

[WhosThatGirl]

Jughead did look over at archie when he was running errands at pops. He was rolling his eyes at him.

Edited February 1, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[Ruby Red]

12 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Jughead did look over at archie when he was running errands at pops. He was rolling his eyes at him.

No, I think Jughead was just shaking his head at him.

[WhosThatGirl]

8 minutes ago, Ruby Red said:

No, I think Jughead was just shaking his head at him.

Oh, it looked like he was rolling his eyes at him. But I agree with you, the show doesn’t seem to care about any of the friendships Right now. As I said I think the last core four scene was the hug scene in the hospital in episode 2x1. 

[PeekaBoo]

3 hours ago, Ruby Red said:

That scene with FP was... Interesting and made me feel a little uncomfortable. It is not okay for FP to shove Jughead against a wall, and what he said to him about how Jughead destroys everything around him was a cruel thing to say. Like seriously, he is a 16-year old teenager. However, on the flip side, FP was not wrong with his freak out over Jughead skinning Penny. What made me uncomfortable was the wording, "Mutilating women., that gender-specific verb. Penny is an awful person, but I really wish the writers had never made Jughead do what he did.

Yeah, it was a bit awkward, it didn't sit well. FP was being quite hard on Jughead and I got the impression that he might have been drunk at the time? His eyes seemed a bit hazy imo. It's a bit weird because they have this hot/cold relationship, you know that FP really cares for him and wants him to do so much more but then Jguhead does something a bit crazy and then he goes all hard-ass on him... Yeah that "mutilating women" was a bit harsh, maybe he didn't expect his kid to go that dark...

26 minutes ago, Ruby Red said:

2. Also Jughead and Archie... Who have not have a proper scene either since their one scene in 2x09. . It was weird how at the start of the episode Jughead was at Pop's, sitting by the bar while Archie was right there with that suit and they did not even look at each other. It's weird, but it may build up to something more when the B/A kiss comes to light. Maybe Archie is purposely avoiding him...

I'm wondering to0 about Jughead and Archie, should they still be considered friends? Besides that little chat in 2x09 they haven't really talked directly to one another since that drug job and the break-up, right? I don't really think that Archie is avoiding him, I think they're both not really being friends right now? I got the impression from archie after that drug run that he didn't want to have anything to do with Jughead if he'd be dealing with the Serpents or someting like that.. I don't think Archie noticed Jughead at the diner tbh, he seemed way too frazzled to notice him there... imo 

 

I think the show did  a great job of portraying the bughead reunion.... Yeah, we could've gotten a bit of afterglow or the sweet goodbyes but they made it look good so kudos to them for pulling it off!!!

[the-grey-lady]

You know, I was a bit skeptical re: the Consuelos casting, because for me, he'll always be Matteo from All My Children. But this particular episode showed his acting chops beautifully. He's got this intense, dark aura about him all the time, and I liked the interplay of light and dark between him and Archie. I'm kind of "meh" on the rest of the Lodge storyline, mainly because I think the writers are playing fast and loose with the details here. Hiram Lodge runs a business that...purchases land? And he has business associates in all other kinds of businesses, and they...get together to make shady comments about those businesses? Is Hiram supposed to be in the mob? And how is Veronica suddenly totes cool with all of this shady shit, as long as Archie isn't involved? How is that supposed to work, anyway? Ronnie participates in the family business (whatever the hell that is), and then...pretends she's a different person around Archie? That sounds like a recipe for a healthy, long-lasting relationship.

The promo made the Betty-as-a-cam-girl thing seem like a huge plot point, so I was glad to see it relegated to the first few minutes of the episode, but..ICK. EW. I could see all-American girl Betty curious about the darker side of life, but she sure started taking off her clothes quickly. Burn that damn black wig, stat! I was thrilled to see the Bughead reunion, but I'm worried, yet again, that the writers are setting up a big breakup in the future, with the secrets Betty is keeping. If they're back to status quo (yet another breakup, Betty and Jug avoiding each other), I'm going to wonder what the point of this week was. That scene in the newspaper office when Betty asks Jughead if he and Toni "did anything," was adorable teenage. Which makes other events in the episode even sleazier.

I was thrilled to see Penny back, only because I was hoping the Serpents would kick Jughead out once and for all, so we could finally be done with this Jughead-in-a-damn-gang storyline. Masterclass in parenting by FP, by the way. Gee, none of this is your fault, FP. Raising Jughead around your gang wasn't bound to have unforeseen repercussions or anything.

I'll LOL'd, literally, at the image of Alice knee-deep in intestines, asking Betty if she'd locked the front door. At least this episode had that hilarity.

[WhosThatGirl]

7 minutes ago, the-grey-lady said:

You know, I was a bit skeptical re: the Consuelos casting, because for me, he'll always be Matteo from All My Children. But this particular episode showed his acting chops beautifully. He's got this intense, dark aura about him all the time, and I liked the interplay of light and dark between him and Archie. I'm kind of "meh" on the rest of the Lodge storyline, mainly because I think the writers are playing fast and loose with the details here. Hiram Lodge runs a business that...purchases land? And he has business associates in all other kinds of businesses, and they...get together to make shady comments about those businesses? Is Hiram supposed to be in the mob? And how is Veronica suddenly totes cool with all of this shady shit, as long as Archie isn't involved? How is that supposed to work, anyway? Ronnie participates in the family business (whatever the hell that is), and then...pretends she's a different person around Archie? That sounds like a recipe for a healthy, long-lasting relationship.

The promo made the Betty-as-a-cam-girl thing seem like a huge plot point, so I was glad to see it relegated to the first few minutes of the episode, but..ICK. EW. I could see all-American girl Betty curious about the darker side of life, but she sure started taking off her clothes quickly. Burn that damn black wig, stat! I was thrilled to see the Bughead reunion, but I'm worried, yet again, that the writers are setting up a big breakup in the future, with the secrets Betty is keeping. If they're back to status quo (yet another breakup, Betty and Jug avoiding each other), I'm going to wonder what the point of this week was. That scene in the newspaper office when Betty asks Jughead if he and Toni "did anything," was adorable teenage. Which makes other events in the episode even sleazier.

I was thrilled to see Penny back, only because I was hoping the Serpents would kick Jughead out once and for all, so we could finally be done with this Jughead-in-a-damn-gang storyline. Masterclass in parenting by FP, by the way. Gee, none of this is your fault, FP. Raising Jughead around your gang wasn't bound to have unforeseen repercussions or anything.

I'll LOL'd, literally, at the image of Alice knee-deep in intestines, asking Betty if she'd locked the front door. At least this episode had that hilarity.

Yes to most of all this! The Lodge stuff is confusing because Veronica in this episode made many observations that The Lodges are shady shaders and she wants Archie to have no part of that- even though Hiram made it seem like that means she has to end their relationship or something.

And yeah.. what is it that they actually do? What is Hiram’s business anyway? Buying property for reasons we will at this rate never get an answer to?

As for Bughead.. yeah. I’m a little worried as well. They were great scenes and I suppose I shouldn’t be waiting for the next breakup but the show is never really going to let them have solid Ground.

And I wish the gang story was over. It’s a bad story that we seem to be going around in circles with how FP and Jughead get into an argument about Jugheads involvement in it and getting too deep into it. I swear they’ve had this fight like every episode since FP got out of jail.

[Mabinogia]

22 minutes ago, PeekaBoo said:

Yeah, it was a bit awkward, it didn't sit well. FP was being quite hard on Jughead and I got the impression that he might have been drunk at the time? His eyes seemed a bit hazy imo. It's a bit weird because they have this hot/cold relationship, you know that FP really cares for him and wants him to do so much more but then Jguhead does something a bit crazy and then he goes all hard-ass on him... Yeah that "mutilating women" was a bit harsh, maybe he didn't expect his kid to go that dark...

I think they are actually doing an amazing job of showing what life is like for a kid with an alcoholic single parent. I do think FP was drunk in that scene. His eyes seemed unfocused. He's also furious because no matter how he tries to help him, Jug just keeps putting his foot in it. Really, that kid is his own worst enemy. He is ruining everything that FP worked hard to build. So he was pissed, he just found out that his kid took a blade to another human being with malicious intent (Jug is becoming a thug) and he's drunk so he can't control himself. It was a tense, horrible scene, but it was incredibly well done.

FP fascinates me in that I can tell he wants to do good, he wants Jug to be better than he is, he wants to give Jug the chance to get out of that life, but he also is a fucked up mess. He's an alcoholic gang leader. He's the worst possible role model and now Jug is following in his footsteps.

12 minutes ago, the-grey-lady said:

I'll LOL'd, literally, at the image of Alice knee-deep in intestines, asking Betty if she'd locked the front door. At least this episode had that hilarity.

I wonder if it meant anything that she called her Elizabeth instead of Betty. I can only recall he saying Elizabeth one other time, but can't remember when it was. Alice is full blown crazy, man. I loved how little she cared when Hal said he was leaving. HAHA she really has no fucks to give about him anymore.

[PeekaBoo]

2 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

I think they are actually doing an amazing job of showing what life is like for a kid with an alcoholic single parent. I do think FP was drunk in that scene. His eyes seemed unfocused. He's also furious because no matter how he tries to help him, Jug just keeps putting his foot in it. Really, that kid is his own worst enemy. He is ruining everything that FP worked hard to build. So he was pissed, he just found out that his kid took a blade to another human being with malicious intent (Jug is becoming a thug) and he's drunk so he can't control himself. It was a tense, horrible scene, but it was incredibly well done.

FP fascinates me in that I can tell he wants to do good, he wants Jug to be better than he is, he wants to give Jug the chance to get out of that life, but he also is a fucked up mess. He's an alcoholic gang leader. He's the worst possible role model and now Jug is following in his footsteps.

 

Totally agree. 

Fp has admitted several times how he never was the greatest dad and I think they showed it pretty well this episode.

My heart goes out to jughead, how the hell is he meant to make good decisions when he's trapped with the serpents and the socio economics that he's been dealt with?!