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The Radical Story Of Patty Hearst


Sarah 103
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On 1/29/2018 at 8:34 PM, Sarah 103 said:

CNN has a great track record so I'm looking forward to this. The era facinates me. Is anyone else looking forward to this, or do you think the topic is overdone? 

My mom use to tell me stories about Patty Hearst. She use to tell me the horrors about the Summer of Sam, going out in a blonde wig to avoid being shot because of her dark hair color when she went disco clubbing. Good times.

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I always found this story fascinating. I was just a few years younger than PH. I always thought that the SLA brain-washed her. Kind of a cross between Stockholm syndrome and brain-washing.

I was surprised to see one of the kidnappers being on the show. It looks like he is out of prison. Unless that is a fake set to fake us out.

Great coverage of the story.

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On 2/14/2018 at 8:34 AM, margol29 said:

I always found this story fascinating. I was just a few years younger than PH. I always thought that the SLA brain-washed her. Kind of a cross between Stockholm syndrome and brain-washing.

I was surprised to see one of the kidnappers being on the show. It looks like he is out of prison. Unless that is a fake set to fake us out.

Great coverage of the story.

I followed the story closely at the time, lived in L.A. when the SLA shoot-out happened.   I was totally anti-war, protested, etc., but the actions of these groups were beyond the pale.  I agree with you about the brainwashing and Stockholm syndrome, and always thought that the failure of the predictably arrogant F. Lee Bailey to convince the jury that those were real mitigating factors was a travesty (although PH spent a minimal time in prison)..  

Bill Harris is so amazingly smug, somehow still justifying the group's lofty "ideals" co-existing with their criminal and violent actions.  Bullshit excuses for horrific behavior makes it's hard for me to believe a word he says about what really happened.  It's great that he's done his time and apparently leads a productive life, but he's so VERY clearly delighted to take the spotlight and expound on his version of history that it's stomach-turning.  I'm kind of disappointed that Jeffery Toobin would put so much emphasis on Harris. 

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Growing up in the 70s, it seemed like Patty Hearst's name was just part of the evening news like the weather. 

I remember feeling there was more to this story than what was being told.

When I think of Elizabeth Smart and other victims of crimes who were brainwashed, it always takes me back to what Ms. Hearst endured. What bothers me is that to this day there are some people who feel she was not a victim and that she should not be viewed as one.

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On 2/15/2018 at 2:35 PM, jrlr said:

Bill Harris is so amazingly smug, somehow still justifying the group's lofty "ideals" co-existing with their criminal and violent actions.  Bullshit excuses for horrific behavior makes it's hard for me to believe a word he says about what really happened.  It's great that he's done his time and apparently leads a productive life, but he's so VERY clearly delighted to take the spotlight and expound on his version of history that it's stomach-turning.  I'm kind of disappointed that Jeffery Toobin would put so much emphasis on Harris. 

At first I was surprised & interested to see Bill Harris interviewed at length, but that was while watching Part 2 which I viewed first. However after watching Part 1 and his animation and arrogance describing the kidnapping I find it near impossible to believe his account of events.

I read Every Secret Thing years ago and I remember thinking it was lacking. I don't know that Patty Hearst truly knows or understands exactly what happened to her during her captivity. 

Edited by chick binewski
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So I forgot to watch on Friday, so watched the first two episodes last night. Either my On Demand froze, or the last scene in part two was showing the dramatization of Patty throwing a book against the wall. Can someone confirm?

And though I didn't live through this period as a teen/adult, but was a baby/child, I find it fascinating. But I have a complaint. Is this special about Patty Hearst or a documentary/portrait piece on Bill FUCKING Harris? Why is he being interviewed/am I having to hear his smug, arrogant mouth for 90% of each episode?

And I could also really, really, REALLY do without the fake dramatizations while the people are being interviewed. Like I needed to see Defreeze having sex with whatever woman in SLA, in the background while Harris was talking shit about how Patty wanted to have "sexual" whatever with Willie, when she didn't even know what he looked like?

Did Patty Hearst decline to be part of this? Is that the reason for the dramatizations, while still using the tapes she sent to her parents during her captivity?

There is plenty of footage that these horrid and cheesy dramatizations are NOT needed.

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Patty and her family declined to be a part of it.

The kidnappers/army interviews just piss me off. They're acting like that the woman they brutally BEAT INTO A MISCARRIAGE and the other woman they MURDERED was just "something that got out of hand"? GO TO HELL AND DIE.

Edited by Spartan Girl
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6 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Patty and her family declined to be a part of it.

The kidnappers/army interviews just piss me off. They're acting like that the woman they brutally BEAT TO DEATH was just "something that got out of hand"? GO TO HELL AND DIE.

Thanks for confirmation.

Oh please. That asshat Harris even said that Patty "was a freak" and not a typical "victim," whatever the FUCK he meant by that. That she was easily persuaded to join their cause? What the fuck ever.

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Was Bill Harris the guy with the beard and glasses, sitting in a somewhat overstuffed chair?  And he was on camera A LOT?  God he was vain and full of himself, no?  Does he not get that people DIED?  

I was born in 1965 and this was one of the first news stories I remember following.  Read and liked Jeffrey Toobin's book.

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44 minutes ago, Mrs. Hanson said:

Was Bill Harris the guy with the beard and glasses, sitting in a somewhat overstuffed chair?  And he was on camera A LOT?  God he was vain and full of himself, no?  Does he not get that people DIED?  

Yes. He was part of the SLA that kidnapped Patty.

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I had my second child in June of 1999.  Topic?  That was when Sarah Jane Olson, aka Kathleen Soliah was captured here in the Twin Cities.  Good Lord it was EVERYWHERE.  She tried to plead "Oh but I am Mrs. Homespun PTA Mom.....can we just let things slide?"  No, no you can't.  You were involved in a crime that resulted in the death of a POLICE OFFICER.  She then pleaded guilty to her crimes THEN when outside, in the hallway and held a news conference saying, no, I was not guilty.  The judge did NOT accept that well, hauled her into court again.  She has never shown remorse.  

I can see why Patty Heart does not want to participate.  She got commuted AND a full presidential pardon......very rare.  Let's not poke the dog.

These people try to sell the "Well, we were hippies!  Free love!  Fight the Power!" as a reason for being criminals.  Just because you smell like patchouli doesn't give you a pass.

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5 minutes ago, Mrs. Hanson said:

I had my second child in June of 1999.  Topic?  That was when Sarah Jane Olson, aka Kathleen Soliah was captured here in the Twin Cities.  Good Lord it was EVERYWHERE.  She tried to plead "Oh but I am Mrs. Homespun PTA Mom.....can we just let things slide?"  No, no you can't.  You were involved in a crime that resulted in the death of a POLICE OFFICER.  She then pleaded guilty to her crimes THEN when outside, in the hallway and held a news conference saying, no, I was not guilty.  The judge did NOT accept that well, hauled her into court again.  She has never shown remorse.  

I can see why Patty Heart does not want to participate.  She got commuted AND a full presidential pardon......very rare.  Let's not poke the dog.

These people try to sell the "Well, we were hippies!  Free love!  Fight the Power!" as a reason for being criminals.  Just because you smell like patchouli doesn't give you a pass.

OMGEEE!!!!! Original Recipe Law & Order did a ripped from the headlines story on this!!!! "White Rabbit." Season five, episode five:

A conservative suburban wife and mother turns out to be a fugitive student radical who was involved in an armored car heist and murder of a police officer 23 years earlier.

William Kunstler played himself, who had been her attorney when she escaped. She was married to a Republican, was a PTA mom...protested she had nothing to do with the murder of the cop, was just a getaway driver, and then they found a recording where she said to "kill the pig." or something like that.

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Count me in on wondering why the hell Bill Harris is sitting in an overstuffed recliner (instead of a jail cell) reminiscing about his SLA days like he's discussing some college fraternity pranks.

I'm guessing he's being featured so prominently because he's the only one who's left and willing to talk, but it's an understatement to say he's more than a little too pleased with himself. 

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28 minutes ago, CynicalGirl said:

Count me in on wondering why the hell Bill Harris is sitting in an overstuffed recliner (instead of a jail cell) reminiscing about his SLA days like he's discussing some college fraternity pranks.

I'm guessing he's being featured so prominently because he's the only one who's left and willing to talk, but it's an understatement to say he's more than a little too pleased with himself. 

He's just a smug arrogant asshole. I think it was in Part two, where whoever was interviewing him, questioned him on the statement that Patty wanted sex with Willie, and he's all like I don't care if  you believe me or not, that's what happened, bullshit. I hope CNN didn't pay him for interviewing him.

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37 minutes ago, CynicalGirl said:

Count me in on wondering why the hell Bill Harris is sitting in an overstuffed recliner (instead of a jail cell) reminiscing about his SLA days like he's discussing some college fraternity pranks.

I'm guessing he's being featured so prominently because he's the only one who's left and willing to talk, but it's an understatement to say he's more than a little too pleased with himself. 

My thoughts exactly. It was interesting for a little bit  to see him as he is now. But he is a little too smug and self satisfied about all the harm, chaos and deaths he was involved with. Seems to have little remorse. It’s disturbing that he is getting such a prominent voice. 

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When he was discussing the actual kidnapping, and how the trunk closed so he had to get the key to open it, and then Patty was "gone"--cowering against a fence. Oh and Steven Weed, he just needed to keep his head down, but he didn't, so they beat the crap out of him. Haha, yeah, good times, Bill. 

I hope they didn't pay him either, but they probably did. 

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I grew up knowing about Patty Hears but nothing beyond rich girl kidnapped and she joined them since it happened before I was born.

I have really enjoyed it so far. Bill Harris irritated the crap out of me. 

Edited by Court
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14 hours ago, Mrs. Hanson said:

I had my second child in June of 1999.  Topic?  That was when Sarah Jane Olson, aka Kathleen Soliah was captured here in the Twin Cities.  Good Lord it was EVERYWHERE.  She tried to plead "Oh but I am Mrs. Homespun PTA Mom.....can we just let things slide?"  No, no you can't.  You were involved in a crime that resulted in the death of a POLICE OFFICER.  She then pleaded guilty to her crimes THEN when outside, in the hallway and held a news conference saying, no, I was not guilty.  The judge did NOT accept that well, hauled her into court again.  She has never shown remorse.  

I can see why Patty Heart does not want to participate.  She got commuted AND a full presidential pardon......very rare.  Let's not poke the dog.

These people try to sell the "Well, we were hippies!  Free love!  Fight the Power!" as a reason for being criminals.  Just because you smell like patchouli doesn't give you a pass.

Anyone with a brain would call bullshit. Hippies were about peace, love, and nonviolent protesting. At least they're supposed to.

Edited by Spartan Girl
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6 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Anyone with a Brain would call bullshit. Hippies were about peace, love, and nonviolent protesting. At least they're supposed to.

There is the rub....they have no brains.  They also think they are smarter than everyone else in the room.

My two cents:  Patty was kidnapped - no doubt about that.  She had conflicting feelings towards her parents wealth and her place in society.  She thought "Hmm.....these folks are gonna stick it to the MAN!"  But then it kept going and going and going......it went to far (obviously!)  Patty Hearst had a very smug air about her, even back in 70's when her sentence was commuted.  Her attitude was "yeah, well.....it should have been commuted!"

14 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

He's just a smug arrogant asshole. I think it was in Part two, where whoever was interviewing him, questioned him on the statement that Patty wanted sex with Willie, and he's all like I don't care if  you believe me or not, that's what happened, bullshit. I hope CNN didn't pay him for interviewing him.

Exactly!  He is acting like, "Well we kidnapped a goat and died the fur green as a fraternity prank - then left it on the porch of the Dean of Admissions!!!  It was HYSTERICAL!"  No, you were thugs of the worst kind.  The very worst.

Edited by Mrs. Hanson
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On ‎2‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 6:28 PM, Mrs. Hanson said:

I had my second child in June of 1999.  Topic?  That was when Sarah Jane Olson, aka Kathleen Soliah was captured here in the Twin Cities.  Good Lord it was EVERYWHERE.  She tried to plead "Oh but I am Mrs. Homespun PTA Mom.....can we just let things slide?"  No, no you can't.  You were involved in a crime that resulted in the death of a POLICE OFFICER.  She then pleaded guilty to her crimes THEN when outside, in the hallway and held a news conference saying, no, I was not guilty.  The judge did NOT accept that well, hauled her into court again.  She has never shown remorse.  

I can see why Patty Heart does not want to participate.  She got commuted AND a full presidential pardon......very rare.  Let's not poke the dog.

These people try to sell the "Well, we were hippies!  Free love!  Fight the Power!" as a reason for being criminals.  Just because you smell like patchouli doesn't give you a pass.

My recollection is, SJO was responsible for the murder of a bank customer, not a police officer. She was indicted for the pipe bombs placed on police cars, but no police were killed. She later pled guilty to the murder of the bank customer. 

Edited by GreatKazu
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What the hell is this? This series should have been titled The SLA: Not murdering terrorists, Just Misunderstood!??????

Again that arrogant smug douche canoe takes up most of the show; Patty is hardly mentioned, except for the viewers to believe that Patty ended up the mastermind and the most dangerous out of all of them.

The shooting in May 1974 was live. Yet apparently seemingly “intelligent” people thought the remaining SLA who refused to come out and were shooting, were innocents who were murdered? Alrighty then.

And you have GOT to be fucking kidding me with that idiot wife of Jack Scott, the reporter as well as Scott himself, harboring these fugitives! According to Harris, they were always short of money, yet seemed to always manage to buy bullets and cars, as well as sympathizers who weren’t SLA, to harbor them and give them money.

And boo-FUCKING-hoo that May 17, 1974 was “the worst day of my life” for Harris, who was safe and sound in a motel near Disney Land, while the rest of his accomplices died.

To hear him talk, the SLA were freedom fighters.????

The whole segment with Tom what’shisface was all kinds of weird. That Harris didn’t kill him-but Tom was just another hostage they let go. Were they all so charismatic that they fell under their spell?

Or that anyone would argue with a man who had a fucking automatic weapon/gun in his hand when he told them he needed their car and was going to take it?

The only time I wasn’t pissed was hearing about the Nurse/church clerk who was murdered at the bank robbery. And when the employee was reliving what happened and had to pause because she broke down and her youngest son crying. I got teary myself.

Why is Harris not in jail still? That he continues to think the murder was “just an accident” in a tone that totally translated his indifference to what they did, and set it aside to keep running is beyond my understanding. 

The sound and affect of Patty’s voice doesn’t change in over the year since she was kidnapped.

Frankly, I don’t blame her or her family for refusing to be interviewed.

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On 2/21/2018 at 11:33 AM, Mrs. Hanson said:

 

On 2/21/2018 at 6:39 AM, Spartan Girl said:

 

My two cents:  Patty was kidnapped - no doubt about that.  She had conflicting feelings towards her parents wealth and her place in society.  She thought "Hmm.....these folks are gonna stick it to the MAN!"  But then it kept going and going and going......it went to far (obviously!)  Patty Hearst had a very smug air about her, even back in 70's when her sentence was commuted.  Her attitude was "yeah, well.....it should have been commuted!"

 

Well she was right. Should have been commuted. Honestly, she never should have been convicted. 

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On 2/20/2018 at 11:34 AM, Mrs. Hanson said:

I was born in 1965 and this was one of the first news stories I remember following. 

This was also the first current events story I remember reading in the paper (I was born in ‘66). I distinctly recall an article with the transcripts of PH calling her father really mean things and just being appalled that someone could be so rude to her daddy! (My Dad was, and still is, all about respecting one’s elders.)

I am debating watching this, but if it’s all about the terrorists, I might have to take a pass. 

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5 hours ago, Sharpie66 said:

I am debating watching this, but if it’s all about the terrorists, I might have to take a pass. 

That’s what it looks like to me. I am so disappointed in CNN Films. A total bait and switch. Patty is painted so horribly in this, and she’s got no point of view. And since she refused to be a part of this, I bet we’ll just see her post interviews like the one she did with Larry King as her “rebuttal” or her “side” of things. Aside from her former fiancé, and the cops, Every Single Person is defending or giving the SLA a tongue bath.

The FBI is painted as the most incompetent agency to ever have existed. 

I admit I’m surprised Harris and his gang were able to elude them for so long.

And now I’m going to see what objective information I can find, because even Toobin thinks she’s guilty. 

I’ll add that I’m also disgusted.

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I can appreciate they want to take a hard look at Hearst, but glossing over the alleged 2 months she spent blindfolded in a closet doesn't work for me. Neither does Harris' version of the SLA spin the bottle where Patty declares her desire to sleep with one of her kidnappers. CNN did feel compelled to note in bold type that Hearst strongly disputes the claims of consensual sex, but for a 6 part series I don't think that's enough.

The fact Emily Harris is earning 6 figures at major studios for computer programming (which she of course learned in prison) is also disturbing, but it might be interesting to hear her version of the truth against her ex-husband's tales.

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Are there other series from earlier that show more of Hearst's side? I believe she was raped. I believe she was brainwashed but have trouble reconciling that with all the actions she took over the next two years.

 

Both Harrises should still be in jail.

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9 hours ago, Court said:

Are there other series from earlier that show more of Hearst's side? I believe she was raped. I believe she was brainwashed but have trouble reconciling that with all the actions she took over the next two years.

 

Both Harrises should still be in jail.

Not that I am aware of. The show The Seventies touched on it, but didn't go into more detail as I hoped they would. The success of Blackfish, The Sixties, The Seventies has gone to CNN's head, because they've been lazy, slipshod and now deceitful with this series. I'll be taking a looong side eye with any future projects they take on.

And I fully agree that both Bill and Emily Harris should be in jail. And that the Scotts should have also spent some time in jail for aiding and abetting.

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On 2/20/2018 at 9:38 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

OMGEEE!!!!! Original Recipe Law & Order did a ripped from the headlines story on this!!!! "White Rabbit." Season five, episode five:

 

 

William Kunstler played himself, who had been her attorney when she escaped. She was married to a Republican, was a PTA mom...protested she had nothing to do with the murder of the cop, was just a getaway driver, and then they found a recording where she said to "kill the pig." or something like that.

She (Republican PTA mom) & another lady were the lookouts during the robbery. I think the other lady was either still in prison for her part of the events, or she was on parole but threatened with being sent back to finish the rest of her sentence if she didn't help Jack & whichever ADA he was working with that season (Abbie?) finally put the Republican PTA mom in prison for her participation after however many years in hiding. You haven't quite got the line she (or the other lady) said (I've seen this ep enough to have that part memorized). The line was actually "Pig at three o'clock."

Edited by BW Manilowe
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10 minutes ago, BW Manilowe said:

You haven't quite got the line she (or the other lady) said (I've seen this ep enough to have that part memorized). The line was actually "Pig at three o'clock."

I've seen and watched Original Recipe Law & Order numerous times, and my initial comment did say "or something like that" which indicated I wasn't sure about the exact quote.

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On ‎2‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 7:42 AM, Robert Lynch said:

My mom use to tell me stories about Patty Hearst. She use to tell me the horrors about the Summer of Sam, going out in a blonde wig to avoid being shot because of her dark hair color when she went disco clubbing. Good times.

I haven't seen this series (didn't know it existed until stumbling upon this thread), but I recently read American Heiress by Jeffrey Toobin, and it struck me that among the book's many failings was that it glossed over just how violent and turbulent this time period was.  Many people had very good reason not to trust government institutions, including the FBI and local police forces, which helps explain why the SLA was able to get help from random people along the way.

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I haven't seen this series (didn't know it existed until stumbling upon this thread), but I recently read American Heiress by Jeffrey Toobin, and it struck me that among the book's many failings was that it glossed over just how violent and turbulent this time period was.  Many people had very good reason not to trust government institutions, including the FBI and local police forces, which helps explain why the SLA was able to get help from random people along the way.

I don't know that he did gloss over it.  He talks about the bombings and radicalism of the early to mid 70s. 

As to Hearst, my thought on her was there was a point where she crossed over from victim to perpetrator.  Toobin does go into a lot of detail as to Patty's role in various crimes, even after most of the SLA members were dead, all the various opportunities she had to walk away and how her attitude and values did a complete flip once she was on trial and needed the protection her family could offer.  I also thought he offered a nice portrait of a woman who was deeply unhappy prior to the kidnapping, and who was very eager to give her parents the rhetorical "F You," that the SLA allowed her to do.  That isn't to say she didn't go through a thoroughly terrible experience with the SLA during her initial months as their hostage, just that things changed at some point. 

Edited by txhorns79
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I think Patty already gave her parents the "F You" when she became involved with her math teacher (Weed) at 16, moved in with him at 18 and became engaged. So the "rebel" in her was already there. I am not trying to minimize the kidnapping or her initial ordeal--that was totally random and out of her control--but to me she seemed like someone who was very easily influenced, especially by authority-figure-type men. And when her father refused to give up money in the SLA's second demand, that sealed the deal. I don't want to call her weak-minded, but yeah. The last example is when she ended up with her bodyguard. Another "F You" to her parents and their rich lifestyle. 

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Patty seems to have glommed on to a man as her escape route, protection, or shield in every instance. As a rebellions 15 year old, she decided to win her teacher--and did! (as an aside--really? Those were different times, for sure. Can you imagine a teacher embarking on an affair with a 16 year old student today? Oy.) In captivity, she seems to have made the decision to enter in to a relationship with one of her captors. I think she picked Cujo because he was the least threatening, the most impressionable. When he was killed, she hooked up with another guy in the group. Once free, she made a dead set at her bodyguard (a married man with kids!). She seems to have had great faith in her ability to fascinate. Maybe she thought her youth and willingness to jump into bed were capital she could spend for protection? She was exotic to all of these men; rich, privileged, from a different class of society. I agree with @CynicalGirl, at least some of it was a middle finger to her parents. But she never gave up her rich lifestyle, did she? Doesn't she live in Greenwich, Connecticut? Not exactly the wrong side of the tracks.

Patty and I are about the same age. I remember her kidnapping and the drama that followed well. I don't doubt that she was terrorized and did what she felt she had to do to survive. But boy, is she ever a bad spokesperson for herself. She comes across as entitled, snotty, patronizing and shallow. I don't want to drag her for not being likable, it smacks too much of "she should smile more", but she did not do well at PR.

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You're right, she didn't give up the lifestyle and she didn't get to Greenwich on a bodyguard's salary. She did get her hubby a job as VP of Security at Hearst Corp.

I guess I was referring more to her choice in men, not exactly the type of suitors her parents would have chosen. Not sure what kind of job she could have secured for Weed or the SLA guy.

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On ‎3‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 11:36 AM, txhorns79 said:

I don't know that he did gloss over it.  He talks about the bombings and radicalism of the early to mid 70s. 

My impression was that Toobin mentioned these things upfront, in the manner of doing a good book report on the times, but never used the information to provide context or motivation for much of anything that happened in the story he was actually recounting. 

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My impression was that Toobin mentioned these things upfront, in the manner of doing a good book report on the times, but never used the information to provide context or motivation for much of anything that happened in the story he was actually recounting. 

I think he gave good background on the SLA and how they were a fifth or sixth tier Weather Underground, and that the general environment where bombs going off at government buildings or public places is such a common occurrence that those stories didn't even make the front page. 

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