S02.E11: Chapter Twenty-Four: The Wrestler

[The Crazed Spruce]

Quote

Jughead learns some shocking details about Riverdale's history; Archie tries out for the Riverdale wrestling team; Betty unearths dark secrets about her brother; Veronica and Josie clash as they prepare for their Picken's Day performance.

[Advance35]

I don't know what it is about them but I love Hiram and Hermione.  They seem to have such a cold regard for everyone who isn't themselves.   I am SO hoping Veronica sides with her family when The Lodges enter full blown conflict with Riverdale's Justice League.  The Lodges look down on everyone, they just are more subtle then The Blossoms.  Hermione views everyone as pawns and while Hiram does too, you can more easily see the disdain he has for certain ones.  Namely, Fred and Archie.  Having said that, maybe it's the actor, but I can't help but like him.  I'd happily be his co-conspirator.  The way he turned that Serpent demonstration into something other then a complete disaster was good (if awkward, anyone in that town who's a real player wasn't buying his act) but clearly Jughead has found his next mission.  I'm on Team Lodge.  

The Blossoms are a Riverdale Horror Story.  And I worried that we might lose that macabre vibe that was in their scenes when Cheryl's father was written out, but the ladies carry the dynamic VERY well.  Penelope zeroing in on Alice's husband. Meeeaoooowww.

The Betty and long lost Cooper saga doesn't interest me.  Even Alice is starting to bore me, which says a lot.

Mayor Sierra McCoy is FAR more interesting then that squeak voiced daughter of hers.  And she's been in league with both wealthy and corrupt families, The Blossoms and now the Lodges.  I like the added dynamic that she resents those who give her marching orders.  And to an extent I think she's right.  Veronica is VERY careful about how she presents herself and it's something that's been present long before she started scheming with her parents.  Her one-upping Josie by performing with the Pussycats made me laugh out loud.  I know the bad girl I'm destined to love is in there and I love when the writers let her out.

I liked seeing Chuck Clayton again.  I'd love to see more of him as either redeemed hero or villain.  I think Archie beating Chuck was definitely writers license but not to the point where it bothered me.

[WhosThatGirl]

Everything about this episode was once again boring and predictable and not really anything I enjoyed. I expect I’ll be alone in thinking this though.

[SeanC]

Well, that was nothing if not ambitious as far as thematic content goes, though this new addition to the backstory of Riverdale the town seems like it seriously muddles the timeline.  Granting that they've never said where exactly this town is, but it seems like it has to be in upstate New York or somewhere in New England; Indian removal was pretty much done in those areas 200 years ago, but Toni's grandfather acts like it's something that happened in the memory of people he knew.

But hey, Graham Greene!

The storyline around Chic has all the makings of one of those Lifetime movies about teens being introduced to dangerous habits, which is exactly the kind of vibe I most enjoy from this show, so I'm onboard.

[WhosThatGirl]

I don’t know. Nothing about this episode really gets me excited about moving forward. I’m just bored by it all.

im also not looking forward to whatever the plan is for Betty and Dark Betty, it just feels like I’m going to be uncomfortable in a way that I don’t need to be for a 16 year old to be in. Hey Riverdale writers the news gives me enough of that and I fear you plan on doing that too. 

[Dee]

Toni setting Jughead straight would've been a lot more effective if the show weren't throwing Chuck under the bus, yet again, in service of advancing another white character's story.

Also? Veronica is a MEGA bitch. And NOT in a good way.

[tennisgurl]

So, now the south siders are also Native Americans or something? They really want Jughead to have the moral high ground here, dont they? And double down on the south side as the oppressed minority, even though we hardly know them beyond the ones in the Serpents. This also continues to raise questions about Riverdale itself. I always thought it was a western city (and this episode seemed to play into that as well) but its also apparently a short drive from there to NYC?

I kind of love Hiram and Hermione, despite their obvious sketchiness. They just constantly amuse me and make me want to cheer for them, as clearly scary as they are. I am also looking forward to Archie as Hiram's intern of evil. That should be interesting, especially if it puts him in conflict with Jughead. You know how they were best friends at one point? 

I wish they would give Chuck some actual development. I like the actor a lot and I think he (and the character) have a ton of potential. 

I love the Blossoms and their special brand of crazy so damn much. They are just a bizarre Gothic horror story every single week, I love it so much. 

So Dark Betty is set to return, along with her psycho brother. Maybe they become a psycho team, instead of going against each other? I swear, this plot is basically a re-tread of every Pretty Little Liars plot ever. 

[WhosThatGirl]

Yeah.. the more stuff and story they give to the gang story, the more boring and less like something I want on my screen it becomes.

Im sorry I didn’t want Dark betty to return. I didn’t. I don’t understand why people like it? Maybe I would like it more if I felt like the writers would actually go into depth with Betty’s mental illness but I knew if it came back, it would always be something like this and awful. It doesn’t look like it’s going to be good.

Are we ever going to have a fun show again? 

[SeanC]

20 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

This also continues to raise questions about Riverdale itself. I always thought it was a western city (and this episode seemed to play into that as well) but its also apparently a short drive from there to NYC?

In the first season Hiram had goons travel down from Montreal, which would suggest the east coast.

[opus]

Anyone know what song Veronica was singing?

[Dee]

Union Of The Snake by Duran Duran

[opus]

43 minutes ago, Dee said:

Union Of The Snake by Duran Duran

Thanks

[methodwriter85]

I was not happy with the Indian removal storyline at all, and the idea that the Serpents are some loyal Native American group that just wanted to keep what's left of their land. Really, show? Really?

Let me tell you something- using a really nasty part of our country's history, and then twisting it in ways that make no sense (like it's been pointed out, Riverdale is an East Coast town and Indian removal was long done by the mid-19th century) just so you can serve Jughead's sense of moral superiority is disgusting. I come to this show for campy escapism, not bastardized history.

The whole thing made me think of the Jebediah Springfield episode of the Simpsons, but if the show had taken everything deadly seriously.

On the other hand, I really like Archie's attempts at trying to make Hiram like him, and his baffled reaction when he realized he couldn't. KJ really can play Archie like a kid. I never thought I'd be saying I preferred an Archie storyline to a Jughead one, but this is what the show has done to me this season. If they were trying to make Jughead insufferable in order to make Archie look better, guess they succeeded. 

Chic is soooo not Hal's son. Also, kudos to casting. Chic really does look like a trashy twink cam boy. *cough* Not that I would know what trashy cam boys look like. *cough*

I also appreciated hearing a Duran Duran song. It felt apropos- Veronica is slowly but surely going to the dark side, and I kind of love that she totally screwed over Josie, who seems to only have one expression.

Edited January 25, 2018 by methodwriter85

[twoods]

Of course Chuck's character was thrown under a bus so Archie can look like a bad ass. Someone who just started wrestling beating the star of the team? Yeah, right. At least I can enjoy the actor on Black Lightning where he won't get crapped on.

When did Josie become so annoying? Did she expect that the girls would crumble without her? And her mom is being all high and mighty over the Lodges when she has no problem cashing all that money they are bribing her with. Take several seats.

STFU Jughead. Toni makes him less insufferable, but he needs to go back to season one Jughead fast or I'm going to lose it.

It's getting more obvious that Chic is not Hal's son after his comment towards Alice on why he shouldn't be there. Guess he's the next customer for Penelope. The actor is still creepy, and I find nothing "hot" about him. Crazy Kevin.

Edited January 25, 2018 by twoods

[opus]

It's nice they cast Dave Franco as Chic.

Or am I the only one that sees that? :)

[AnimeMania]

If Betty isn't wearing a mask, a leather outfit and carrying a whip in the next episode, I am going to be disappointed.

[kissedbyarose]

9 hours ago, Advance35 said:

I don't know what it is about them but I love Hiram and Hermione.  They seem to have such a cold regard for everyone who isn't themselves.   I am SO hoping Veronica sides with her family when The Lodges enter full blown conflict with Riverdale's Justice League.  The Lodges look down on everyone, they just are more subtle then The Blossoms.  Hermione views everyone as pawns and while Hiram does too, you can more easily see the disdain he has for certain ones.  Namely, Fred and Archie.  Having said that, maybe it's the actor, but I can't help but like him.  I'd happily be his co-conspirator.  The way he turned that Serpent demonstration into something other then a complete disaster was good (if awkward, anyone in that town who's a real player wasn't buying his act) but clearly Jughead has found his next mission.  I'm on Team Lodge.  

I liked seeing Chuck Clayton again.  I'd love to see more of him as either redeemed hero or villain.  I think Archie beating Chuck was definitely writers license but not to the point where it bothered me.

All of this! I mentioned in an older episode thread the Lodges remind me of the novellas I watched with my mom and its still true. I just find them very entertaining plus if the opposite side is Jughead then I’m Team Lodge all thd way.

Boooooo on that fight show. Literally anyone else (aside from Kevin) would’ve worked.

9 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Yeah.. the more stuff and story they give to the gang story, the more boring and less like something I want on my screen it becomes.

Im sorry I didn’t want Dark betty to return. I didn’t. I don’t understand why people like it? Maybe I would like it more if I felt like the writers would actually go into depth with Betty’s mental illness but I knew if it came back, it would always be something like this and awful. It doesn’t look like it’s going to be good.

Are we ever going to have a fun show again? 

The Serpents bike gang stemming from an old Indian tribe? C’mon show. You don’t have the nuance for this kind of thing. It’s especially hard because Jughead seems to be the only one with the problem here... which I’m not even sure what his problem is anymore. 

Also not here for Dark Betty either and the overuse of the word darkness... which means nothing at this point. Betty doesn’t understand herself so she wants to be a cam girl? Wut? Girl, go see a therapist. 

The Blossoms continue to entertain me. Mama Blossom is easily becoming one of my favorite characters on this train wreck of a show. 

[poppy-]

10 hours ago, Dee said:

Toni setting Jughead straight would've been a lot more effective if the show weren't throwing Chuck under the bus, yet again, in service of advancing another white character's story.

Also? Veronica is a MEGA bitch. And NOT in a good way.

 

Chuck's a straight up villain,   despite one cute scene with Josie.

I do like the physics of wrestling in Riverdale.  The smaller the tougher.  Hiram > Archie > Chuck.

And did we know Kevin was built like that? A good 15-20 lb of muscle more than Archie?  They have some magic cameras and bulky sweaters that made me think he was, like, normal sized.

Young people: do all teen guys shave their chests really or is that a CW thing?  I'd have assumed CW but y'all do shave parts we didn't when I was in high school.....

[poppy-]

6 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

On the other hand, I really like Archie's attempts at trying to make Hiram like him, and his baffled reaction when he realized he couldn't. KJ really can play Archie like a kid. I never thought I'd be saying I preferred an Archie storyline to a Jughead one, but this is what the show has done to me this season. If they were trying to make Jughead insufferable in order to make Archie look better, guess they succeeded. 

I agree, I really like KJ Apa's performance (and his believable American accent).

Season 1: horrible murders and intrigue and all Archie's friends tell him "nah, don't help, go play music buddy"
Season 2 he is less protected by his friends and has to try to navigate on his own with cunning liars like Hiram and the "FBI Agent" and he reacts like...... a  teenager.  A gullible teenager who can't really keep up and never has a witty comeback.   Who just wants to play music and basketball and hang out with his pretty girlfriend. 

[Ruby Red]

Someone take these characters away from these writers. They all deserve better.

[Guest]

Quote

It's nice they cast Dave Franco as Chic.

Or am I the only one that sees that? :)

You're definitely not the only one!

[luna1122]

13 hours ago, opus said:

It's nice they cast Dave Franco as Chic.

Or am I the only one that sees that? :)

My honey came in as  I was watching and said 'I didn't know Dave Franco was on this show'.  He actually did know it wasn't him, but the resemblance is clear, tho Chic looks like the twinkier, twitchier, tweakier, murdery-er version of Dave.

I loved the Duran Duran song too.

And any show that casually drops references to Foxcatcher and Snowpiercer is always going to be good with me. I love the show and Jughead's movie love.

So Bad Betty is gonna be a cam-girl now? Seems about right and better than being, you know a killer.

Edited January 25, 2018 by luna1122

[Dee]

1 hour ago, poppy- said:

Chuck's a straight up villain,   despite one cute scene with Josie.

What makes Chuck a "straight up villain"? He's a boy scout compared to most of his classmates, let alone their parents.

[AAEBoiler]

1 hour ago, poppy- said:

And did we know Kevin was built like that? A good 15-20 lb of muscle more than Archie?  They have some magic cameras and bulky sweaters that made me think he was, like, normal sized.

I'm glad I wasn't the only one to notice this. The dude is huge! 

[Chicago Redshirt]

11 hours ago, Dee said:

Toni setting Jughead straight would've been a lot more effective if the show weren't throwing Chuck under the bus, yet again, in service of advancing another white character's story.

Also? Veronica is a MEGA bitch. And NOT in a good way.

I don't see how Veronica was wrong in what she did. She tried to patch a rift between Josie and the other Pussycats. As I remember, Melody and Valerie got upset when Josie went behind their back and tried to go on a solo career at Cheryl's urging. (Hey, whatever happened to that storyline?) As I recall, her solo career wasn't going anywhere. If I were Melody and Valerie, I'd be pissed that it was only after her attempts at soloing failed that she tried to do this one time only thing. Too bad all that dialogue only happened in Offscreendale. 

Anyway, it was Josie who had to be all "I'm not going to be manipulated by a Lodge because mommy told me so, and I'm not going to participate in your Pickens Day reindeer games." Even if she lost the attitude, that was an obnoxious thing to do. 

11 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

So, now the south siders are also Native Americans or something? They really want Jughead to have the moral high ground here, dont they? And double down on the south side as the oppressed minority, even though we hardly know them beyond the ones in the Serpents. This also continues to raise questions about Riverdale itself. I always thought it was a western city (and this episode seemed to play into that as well) but its also apparently a short drive from there to NYC?

 

I was always under the impression Riverdale was somewhere East Coasty. 

7 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

I also appreciated hearing a Duran Duran song. It felt apropos- Veronica is slowly but surely going to the dark side, and I kind of love that she totally screwed over Josie, who seems to only have one expression.

I get that Union of the Snake was meant to be some sort of play on the Southside Serpents. But within the context of the show, performing for a celebration of the town's founding, it didn't really make much sense to me.

I'm also disappointed that it took me as long as it did to put together that Veronica was covering Duran Duran song I'd heard a gajillion times.

7 hours ago, twoods said:

Of course Chuck's character was thrown under a bus so Archie can look like a bad ass. Someone who just started wrestling beating the star of the team? Yeah, right. At least I can enjoy the actor on Black Lightning where he won't get crapped on.

When did Josie become so annoying? Did she expect that the girls would crumble without her? And her mom is being all high and mighty over the Lodges when she has no problem cashing all that money they are bribing her with. Take several seats.

If we buy Hiram "best wrestler evah" Lodge's philosophy, it makes sense, because wrestling is about willpower, and of course in that category, Archie's a goddamn Green Lantern. 

When hasn't Josie been annoying? I can think of maybe one time, which was when she was being dissed by her dad, and that was some sympathy.

I do have some sympathy for (is this the first time they gave her first name?) Sierra McCoy. She's trapped between several hard places, and in this context to be the African-American female mayor of this city that has racism bubbling up pretty prominently, she needs cash and allies, and the Lodges represent both. 

[Dee]

9 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I don't see how Veronica was wrong in what she did. She tried to patch a rift between Josie and the other Pussycats.

The state of Josie's solo career has nothing to do with Veronica.

Veronica wasn't trying to patch a rift between Josie & The Pussycats. She could could care less about their residual feelings about their breakup & she had no desire to see them reunited until it served her purposes.

Which, under normal circumstances, would just be garden variety Riverdale self serving; but Josie is supposed to be one of her good friends. Manipulating a close friend, via an extremely painful situation in their life, to score points with your own parents is REALLY gross.

Veronica HATES when other people use her as a tool in their schemes without her permission, especially those closest to her, why would she assume others would feel any different?

[WhosThatGirl]

2 hours ago, Ruby Red said:

Someone take these characters away from these writers. They all deserve better.

I really hate every character and the writers. I think I might have to quit this show. For real. They’re doing nothing I want to watch and what they are doing is incredibly insulting.

[Ruby Red]

55 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I really hate every character and the writers. I think I might have to quit this show. For real. They’re doing nothing I want to watch and what they are doing is incredibly insulting.

I don't hate the characters, I just dislike the writers strongly for doing the characters so dirty.

[WhosThatGirl]

1 minute ago, Ruby Red said:

I don't hate the characters, I just dislike the writers strongly for doing the characters so dirty.

I mean.. yeah but because of the terrible writing I hate all of them. There really is nothing I’ve seen on screen and what I do see makes me angry. Like look I get it’s a tv show but some of the things that are doing shouldn’t be used for entertainment grabs in the way they are doing it but whatever.

[tennisgurl]

1 hour ago, Ruby Red said:

I don't hate the characters, I just dislike the writers strongly for doing the characters so dirty.

Yep! I just dont like how the writers are using the characters right now, especially Jughead, who has just become the most annoying prick in Riverdale over the course of only a few episodes. I still like the characters, and a lot of the smaller bits they still get (and when the actors rise above the weirdness), but for the most part, they're all trapped in lame subplots that rarely intersect with each other, and make them look like assholes or idiots. Honestly, I think Archie and Cheryl have the best plots now, and they're plots are surrounding hooker moms and wrestling to earn their girlfriends sketchy fathers approval!

Also, Kevin is freaking built, who knew he was hiding so much underneath his sweater collection! I love that he is actually really good at wrestling, and his dad cheering for him at their practice. 

I just cant with this whole "the Serpents are oppressed Native Americans now even though this story makes no sense to anyone with any remote knowledge of history" plot. It so clearly exists to make Jughead look like the good guy and give him something to rebel against, and make the south siders look like the constant victims. How have the Serpents gone from a clearly violent and dangerous gang to eternally oppressed by evil northsiders victims and plucky outsiders? Are they one of those gangs that doesn't actually do gang things, and just wear leather jackets and sometimes do dance battles against other leather jacket wearing gangs? And sometimes...swear? 

Its really awkward to take an actual historical tragedy and mix it into a story that has nothing to do with it. And using a Native American story with characters who mostly dont seem to be Native Americans.

Edited January 25, 2018 by tennisgurl

[AnimeMania]

6 hours ago, kissedbyarose said:

The Serpents bike gang stemming from an old Indian tribe?

I am not sure if it is the "bike gang" or "the name of the bike gang" that stems from an old Native American tribe. Maybe we have a "Washington Redskins" situation. Everyone seems to be arguing about how long ago the event happened, but not if the event happened. I am glad Ms Blossom admitted their family wanted the land and and just took it. Cheryl seemed to almost feel sympathy for people who were less fortunate than her or was she just worried how this might tarnish the Blossom name.

[the-grey-lady]

This entire episode felt like it was coated in a skin of slime, barring a few amusing moments.

From Chic Cooper's cold, dead eyes, and his frank appraisal of his sister, and Hal's patent dismissal of his son(?), to Betty's chirping about Chic's totes cool camboy career as if this is just another career choice like advertising executive, followed by her baffling admission regarding her own "darkness" to someone she freaking met something like 48 hours previous. I can't. And let's not even discuss the dark, black, sucking hole of the Lodge family, particularly the way Mark Consuelos manages to utter absolutely everything he says with a side of menace, especially his and Archie's bizarre sexual chest thumping over Veronica and their strangely homoerotic wrestling match. Ew ew ew.

And the Coopers' confrontation at Pickens Day! WTH! Chic's computer and Hal and Alice's baffling defense of this creepy boy they don't know at all! Penelope Blossom cheerfully admitting to her daughter that of course their family killed people! No thing like a chicken wing!

I'm not even going to touch the Native American/Serpent BS and that ludicrous protest. I wanted to push Jughead into an open manhole. (And I normally love Juggie.)

After that episode, I need a shower. And maybe a Valium. This show is about teenagers...right?

[WhosThatGirl]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

Yep! I just dont like how the writers are using the characters right now, especially Jughead, who has just become the most annoying prick in Riverdale over the course of only a few episodes. I still like the characters, and a lot of the smaller bits they still get (and when the actors rise above the weirdness), but for the most part, they're all trapped in lame subplots that rarely intersect with each other, and make them look like assholes or idiots. Honestly, I think Archie and Cheryl have the best plots now, and they're plots are surrounding hooker moms and wrestling to earn their girlfriends sketchy fathers approval!

Also, Kevin is freaking built, who knew he was hiding so much underneath his sweater collection! I love that he is actually really good at wrestling, and his dad cheering for him at their practice. 

I just cant with this whole "the Serpents are oppressed Native Americans now even though this story makes no sense to anyone with any remote knowledge of history" plot. It so clearly exists to make Jughead look like the good guy and give him something to rebel against, and make the south siders look like the constant victims. How have the Serpents gone from a clearly violent and dangerous gang to eternally oppressed by evil northsiders victims and plucky outsiders? Are they one of those gangs that doesn't actually do gang things, and just wear leather jackets and sometimes do dance battles against other leather jacket wearing gangs? And sometimes...swear? 

Its really awkward to take an actual historical tragedy and mix it into a story that has nothing to do with it. And using a Native American story with characters who mostly dont seem to be Native Americans.

Like I said, the more they give the gang screen time and story the more terrible it becomes. And I’m assuming they’re tying to garner sympathy for the gang because the first half of this season made Jughead complently different and we have to have a reason for him being loyal to this gang and still like him.

Well show.. you are failing. You are just making things worse.

Also I was right, when we spend actual time on characters they get worse. See Josie who became kind of insufferable this past episode and especially towards her ex band mates who she believed would fall apart with her out her or something.

And while Archie might have an interesting story to somewhich.. I don’t personally think it is but I digress and Cheryl is fun sometimes, I can only take a little bit of Cheryl.

And the Betty stuff bothers me more that I can say I already wrote an essay it’s on the spoiler and speculation thread I don’t feel like retyping it.

Everything else is everything I said in my earlier posts, I feel insulted watching.

Edited January 25, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[UNOSEZ]

17 hours ago, Dee said:

Toni setting Jughead straight would've been a lot more effective if the show weren't throwing Chuck under the bus, yet again, in service of advancing another white character's story.

Also? Veronica is a MEGA bitch. And NOT in a good way.

I was so happy the way she handled that.. And to his credit how jug reacted afterwards.. But then yeah.. Did one of the writers have a blk bully growing up because the one black guy on the show has been dumped on time and time again... And wasn't Reggie supposed to be more integral this season??.. I both hated and loved what Veronica did.. It was both a power move.. And completely sumbaggy... Josie ain't ever been nothing but nice to Veronica and she just blindsided her.. But I guess daddy's little girl is feeling herself a bit more now that she's on the inside... I hope this is explored later on.. And I wanna know who is on who's side coming up... I think Cheryl is def team southside.. Josie may be torn.. Wanting to get back at the cats and Veronica but not wanting to Cross her mom... Also.. More Toni.. More sweet pea.. And STOP ABUSING CHUCK. 

[AdorkableSars]

19 hours ago, Advance35 said:

I don't know what it is about them but I love Hiram and Hermione.  They seem to have such a cold regard for everyone who isn't themselves.   I am SO hoping Veronica sides with her family when The Lodges enter full blown conflict with Riverdale's Justice League.  The Lodges look down on everyone, they just are more subtle then The Blossoms.  Hermione views everyone as pawns and while Hiram does too, you can more easily see the disdain he has for certain ones.  Namely, Fred and Archie.  Having said that, maybe it's the actor, but I can't help but like him.  I'd happily be his co-conspirator.  The way he turned that Serpent demonstration into something other then a complete disaster was good (if awkward, anyone in that town who's a real player wasn't buying his act) but clearly Jughead has found his next mission.  I'm on Team Lodge.  

 

The thing is the writers are doing such a disservice to so many characters this season. Some of them have taken complete 180s (I'm looking at you, Jughead). So truly, at this point, it is kind of fun to root for the villans like Hiram/Hermoine and Penelope. Their nefarious ways are amusing and somewhat absurd, but fun to watch. And we all deserve that because there really isn't much else fun happening on this show right now. 

19 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

im also not looking forward to whatever the plan is for Betty and Dark Betty, it just feels like I’m going to be uncomfortable in a way that I don’t need to be for a 16 year old to be in. Hey Riverdale writers the news gives me enough of that and I fear you plan on doing that too. 

Ugh. This. Enough Dark Betty. This (and the writers' obsession with it) is getting creepy. And also, there are other characters besides Betty. And better storylines you could be giving Betty...not this creepy shit.

19 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I wish they would give Chuck some actual development. I like the actor a lot and I think he (and the character) have a ton of potential. 

He and Josie had awesome chemistry in their Pops scene earlier this season. There's for sure potential there. I like the actor too!

8 hours ago, Ruby Red said:

Someone take these characters away from these writers. They all deserve better.

For. Real. I can't get over how last season was so fun and campy and yes, ridiculous, but well-written and riveting. Maybe 22 episodes is too much per season for this show. Especially if they're going to continue to ruin so many characters.

That being said, this week's episode was so much better than last week, (Although I missed FP.) Some things I really liked:

- Toni setting Jughead straight, and calling him out on his bullshit. I really like their friendship, and how Toni seems to keep Jughead in line. More of that, please. Before they completely ruin Jughead, to the point of no return.

- Betty's jealousy that Jughead and Toni were hanging out. Sorry not sorry. My Bughead shipping heart was mad into it. 

- More Cheryl and Kevin this episode! I get that the Core Four are supposed to be front and center, but it's coming at the expense of other characters. Kevin and Cheryl always have such great lines and usually bring some levity to their scenes. And Casey and Madelaine deserve more screen time - they're so good!

- Cheryl going to stand with the Serpents at the protest at Dickens Day (or is it Pickens Day? I forget already...). Looks like she's finally had enough of her messed up family - past and present

- So. Much. Plaid. On. Jughead. Dudes in plaid are a weakness for me <3

- Sheriff Keller looking all hunky in his off-duty clothes (but have they completely dropped the Sheriff Keller/Mayor McCoy affair story?)

- The wrestling scenes because they made me laugh. Not sure that was the intent, but it's what I did. So thanks, Riverdale! 

- Valerie and Melody sightings...yay!!! (But wasn't Archie supposed to sing with them? Was the only point of him practicing with Veronica to have Hiram deliver that line about how Archie is a better Pussycat than he is a wrestler. Which was a sick burn. Get it, Hiram...)

That's all I can think of now. And my lunch break is over. Gosh darn adulting at work gets in the way of what I really want to do in life...

Edited January 25, 2018 by AdorkableSars
I don't know if it was Pickens or Dickens Day!

[UNOSEZ]

5 hours ago, Dee said:

What makes Chuck a "straight up villain"? He's a boy scout compared to most of his classmates, let alone their parents.

You didn't hear.. He along with a ton of other dudes talked abt girls in secret.. And fibbed abt sexual exploits.. They wrote it in a book very few knew abt.. And he posted a sexually charged tweet... So of course he needed to be drugged assaulted handcuffed left for dead in a hot tub kicked off the football team and suspended from school in a wildly public way(just him tho no one else on the team)  and sure the girls who assaulted him stormed into a boys locker room while he was changing and accosted him while he was in a towel.. And never even got into any trouble for imprisonment or drugging him or almost drowning him.. Cuz you know he's the villian then of course he gets assaulted again at a party by Jughead.. Abd when he defends himself an adult gangbangers physically throws him out.. But he's a villian so when he gets accused of stalking josie even tho he's innocent and the person doing it is viewed as a kooky zany lady it makes sense.. And now Becuz he's a villian he loses to a novice wrestler who pulls guns on folks.. Gets into street fights... Drag races.. Abd us an all around vigilante who vandalizes other ppls property and isabt 20 pounds smaller. But it's OK.. Cuz Chuck is a str8 up villian... 

 

Ok I gotta admit I think I may have gotten triggered this episode. 

[UNOSEZ]

What I gathered from toni's grandpops is that somehow outta the rubble if the slaughter the remaining native Americans kinda came together and over time that morphed into a biker gang.. It's how some street gangs started.. So I'm guessing Toni's gpop learned abt certain traditions of his ppl some core values and as time went on and as im sure opportunities were slim(cuz when in history did displaced minorities get a real fair shake) some of the descendants of the survivors of the massacre took the icon of their forefathers and created the modern serpents.. By then the southside(which I'm guessing was the only land they were allowed to settle in)  had other folks not just native Americans.. But ppl who had also been in the margins.. And boom biker gang.. A generation or two later here's Juggy... Toni... Sweet Pea et Al. 

[WhosThatGirl]

I don’t think chucks a straight up villain but he needs more character development. Although maybe it’s better he stays off screen, when these characters get more screen they become more and more awful.

 Also on Cheryl and stalking of Josie.. I hated that. It’s why it’s soured me on the last main character I still even liked. That was an awful drop in storyline for reasons just cause. And it has messed up the character for me. And so all the main kids are not great anymore. I was always meh on Archie and Veronica before and this season hasn’t improved them much and it’s effectively ruined Jughead and Betty for me. And Kevin who became real annoying this season with his one episode arc that was all whiny and I couldn’t even.

[PeekaBoo]

14 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

I was not happy with the Indian removal storyline at all, and the idea that the Serpents are some loyal Native American group that just wanted to keep what's left of their land. Really, show? Really?

Let me tell you something- using a really nasty part of our country's history, and then twisting it in ways that make no sense (like it's been pointed out, Riverdale is an East Coast town and Indian removal was long done by the mid-19th century) just so you can serve Jughead's sense of moral superiority is disgusting. I come to this show for campy escapism, not bastardized history.

The whole thing made me think of the Jebediah Springfield episode of the Simpsons, but if the show had taken everything deadly seriously.. 

 

THIS!!! You just have to realize how ridiculous the whole thing is when you refer to a Simpsons episode lol!!!

 

What the hell is going on with Jughead (besides awful awful writing)?? I mean the dude's angry, he's just sooo freaking angry all the the freaking time!!! Come on, lighten up a bit!!!

I get that he wants to protest and all from bad stuff that happened eons ago but come on, did he forget he was white or something? Not his call at all!!! I really hope Toni can keep up with him and stop him when she has to... I thought it was bit bad bringing native indian stuff because I would like ot think it's still (?) a sensitive thing for certain people (i'm assuming)...

 

Other than that, the  ep was ok.

After watching Chic’s little fit when he stormed back to the house, it so reminded me so much of Jughead’s birthday rant, and getting so bitchy-angry and paranoid is such Jones’ traits imo… Hint! hint!

I’m very still split and leaning forward on the not-liking of veronica’s portrayal… Nah, she's just as bad as her parents.... Not liking the lodges at all.... So freaking sneaky...

I just had to laugh at the Cooper breakfasts, from awkward to dreary, the super-death-glares coming from Hal and Alice just trying to be super cheerful and trying to hush her two kids talking about their darkness and self-harming techniques at the table for everyone to hear... Yeah, the coopers are ssoooooooooo the parents-of-the-year!! lol!!! I mean, Ding!Ding! Shouldn't it ring a bell!!! As someone commented on Tumblr ---> new OTP: Betty + Psychoterapist! <3 <3

The wrestling thing was ok.... I liked Archie trying to do what he can to get closer to Hiram! THought KJ did a pretty damn good job and surpringly, i'm hearing less of his NZ-accent as opposed to S1!

Loved the bit of Betty getting jealous of Toni!! Jughead seems a bit oblivious doesn't he?! They're trying to be "normal" between them but you see the little heart eyes from Betty but the nada! from Jughead! Oh well...

Liked seeing KEvin a little bit more and Josie was a MEH! She's too scared of what mommy says so let her be where she's at...

And OMG! Hall and Peneloppe!! OMG OMG! LOL LOL!!! hahahahah, didn't think they would start that early!!!

Poor poor Cheryl (wonder how she chopped down the statues' head!).... I feel for her.... Stuck in a godforsaken family that is crazy beyond shit!!! I hope she'll turn to the southside (or toni - the same!). ....

The episode was ok, fun to watch but ok...

Edited January 25, 2018 by PeekaBoo

[WhosThatGirl]

I still hope FP isn’t Chics father. 

[tennisgurl]

54 minutes ago, PeekaBoo said:

THIS!!! You just have to realize how ridiculous the whole thing is when you refer to a Simpsons episode lol!!!

 

Simpsons did it! 

[WhosThatGirl]

Yeah. Two days later and I really thought last weeks episode was bad but this last one was so boring to me and like I said, the fact that they have to give the gang storyline some Native American backstory to garner sympathy for Jughead is ridiculous. It is.

And I don’t like any of the characters because they’re being written terribly. And yes Cheryl is fun sometimes but with  this show when characters are given an actual story, screen time or an arc this season their character is ruined. See Kevin’s big episode and when Cheryl revealed herself as Josies stalker. I know I should just let that go, but still.. I can’t. It just proves that the show clearly doesn’t know what to do at this point anymore.

I don’t know. I’m just.. not only that but the episodes have felt so boring. I feel like everything that’s happening is things I predicted to happen and nothing feels original. 

Oh season 1 Riverdale where did you go? 

[Snookums]

Quote

Granting that they've never said where exactly this town is, but it seems like it has to be in upstate New York or somewhere in New England; Indian removal was pretty much done in those areas 200 years ago, but Toni's grandfather acts like it's something that happened in the memory of people he knew.

None of this made any sense, and while I get that Riverdale exists in this floating nebulous blob that apparently drifts here, there, everywhere across the continental US, it also apparently enters time portals where there were living witnesses to a slaughter that couldn't have happened less than 150 years ago.  It also seems to posit that the Serpents are a simple amalgam of all oppressed minorities from all time periods, with the proper group surfacing per storyline need, only to sink back underneath the waves of "eh, who cares?" when done with. Next we'll find out Sweet Pea's grandmother was a Chinese railroad worker or something.

And if the show is trying to up its "minority cred" with this kind of crap (ignoring the way that the actual POC actors are barely getting scraps of lines) why on earth is this Proud Indigenous Biker Gang okay with being led by a white guy and his sixteen year old white son??? And while we're up, isn't Toni getting tired of being the mouthpiece for all sex/gender/race correction being done on the show?

Speaking of sixteen year olds, has no one mentioned to Betty that doing cam girl work is her making kiddie porn? Because she's under eighteen. And she could conceivably go to prison for it. But I guess the writers were too busy stripping down and oiling up the Roided Out Riverdale Wrestlers to concern themselves with it too much.

Things I did like:

 Kevin (and the show) pointing out that just being a good general athlete and in shape doesn't make you an instant prodigy of a particular sport. Wrestling is thinking on your feet in the most literal sense and using geometry and physics to calculate your moves--it takes practice! The idea that A) Chuck could possibly be dominated by a newbie who is under his weight by at least forty pounds and B) any wrestling coach who is A-OK with putting those two in a ring surrounded by witnesses is ludicrous. But he also allowed a 48 year old man to tackle/be tackled by minors twenty years younger and fifty pounds heavier than him and finish by nearly choking Archie to death, so...

Josie at least got some story time, and it was woven in as much as anything can be on this alpaca rug of a show. Sierra McCoy also seems to be doing more than popping up to Mayor for a few minutes at a time. And Josie's shock at the Pussycats being totally fine with a new front singer was well done--betrayal for betrayal for betrayal here! They should reform and call themselves The Backstabbers.

Cheryl's mom and her unrepentant lunacy about all things at all times--this actress is having a ball! (Query, however: Didn't Penelope marry into the Blossom family? She's not a Blossom by blood but she takes this shit so personally, like a deranged fangirl. Did she marry her cousin? No wonder Cheryl's such a scatter of nuttiness.)

The Coopers' breakfasts of Bitchiness and Snarling. Hal's chipmunk baby face contrasts so well with his icy rages and bizarre obsession with Polly while Alice veers between denial and chirping cheerfulness, Betty blurts out bizarre non sequiturs of lines about scars, and Chic just vibrates with barely restrained fury. 

(Hal, however, needs to annunce the Big Secret about Chic which everybody in this damn town should already know--he's not the kid's father, doy. But he was too busy being grooved on by Penelope Blossom and seemingly forgetting his hate-on for their entire family so to hell with it, I suppose.)

Archie going all Eeee-vil and agreeing to work with Hiram, but NOT so as to gather info for Fake FBI guy. Yes, this can only work out well, Archikins. Especially since you were concerned fifteen minutes ago about your dad and said Fake FBI guy was showing you the papers that would keep him out of it. You have the memory of a stoned goldfish. Also, the idea that there would be any contest between him, a young teenager in prime condition and a man his father's age in a running contest. I don't care how in shape Hiram is, that's a no.

2 minutes ago, Snookums said:

 

Edited January 26, 2018 by Snookums
quoted self by mistake

[WhosThatGirl]

Yeah the cam stuff with Betty  is gross and probably going to make me uncomfortable in the future episode for reasons, but I guess the writers don’t care anymore. Which bothers me. But I’ve talked endlessly about it in other posts and i don’t feel like repeating myself. 

[Snookums]

Does anybody know why they eliminated the "like" buttons?

[Enginerd]

Has the CW relaxed on its key mission as a showcase of youthful pulchritude? WRESTLING?!?! UCK. I don't know why, but wrestling unitards completely gross me out in a way that neither spandex shorts nor skimpy tank tops can do on their own. I think they look completely disgusting and everyone, EVERYONE, even CW hotties, looks gross in them. Is this just a fact or do I have some sort of subconscious baggage regarding wrestlers?

And really, Hiram? Locking antlers with a 16-year-old? All that effort to humiliate him? This would be a bad look on Hiram if he were only 20. As a 40-ish man who is also a successful shady businessman, he should really be above such petty juvenile antics. It's just making him look insecure.

 

Cooper breakfasts really are something. They all had a full glass of orange juice, but the pitcher was still full! How much orange juice do they need? Plus a mountain of pancakes and, of course, maple syrup. Maybe they'd all be a little more functional if they cut back on the sugar and simple carbs a bit. Betty trying to talk about dark tendencies and mental illness while Alice tried to play Happy Healthy Family was a hoot.

Poor Juggie, the Rebel Desperate For a Cause. He seems to have forgotten that he was only very briefly a southsider. He also seems to have an inflated idea of how much an abused outsider he was at Riverdale High. Aside from Reggie and Cheryl, who are awful to everyone, the students there mostly seem indifferent to Jughead and his not fitting in and not wanting to fit in. Maybe he's upset that his misfittery isn't getting more attention. Yeah, he was homeless and his family sucks, but the northside and his fellow students aren't the problem there. His anger is misplaced. I hope his mother eventually gets a large piece of someone's mind for abandoning him.

Is Betty's BROTHER really going to get her into cam girl work? A of all, the idea of one's brother training her in sex work is all kinds of squicky, B, this is definitely not something a 16-year-old should be doing, C, if Chic sets her up in this, isn't he producing/distributing kiddie porn, D, has she lost her damn mind? E, this is not something any of us needs to see.

Was Betty supposed to be shocked when she was informed of Chic's online exploits? She already knew he'd been turning tricks for violent clients. If anything, doing stuff over the interwebs has got to be a hell of a lot safer.

1 minute ago, Snookums said:

Does anybody know why they eliminated the "like" buttons?

Aren't they still there? Do you see the heart I clicked on your post? It's on the right side now on my screen.

[Enginerd]

I wish they'd give Josie something to do other than be an insufferable snot and a puppet for her parents. The character has so much potential, but she's mostly been a one-dimensional side note. Her mother has more screen appeal and she's up to all sorts of sketchy stuff!

[ahpny]

Quote

Also, the idea that there would be any contest between him, a young teenager in prime condition and a man his father's age in a running contest. I don't care how in shape Hiram is, that's a no.

As someone near "his father's age," I feel a need to chime in to say that there are plenty men (and women) of that age and beyond that can easily outperform many teenagers in a variety of sports. While the best 40-50-somethings may never outperform the best teen-twenty-somethings in most sports, we were already told that Archie was far from the best "teen" wrestler. Imputing that to running is hardly the biggest stretch this show as taken.  But what I found uncomfortable about that scene wasn't so much the credibility of Hiram winning, but his zealousness essentially to beat up a kid (his daughter's BF, no less) and this:

Quote

And really, Hiram? Locking antlers with a 16-year-old? All that effort to humiliate him? This would be a bad look on Hiram if he were only 20. As a 40-ish man who is also a successful shady businessman, he should really be above such petty juvenile antics. It's just making him look insecure.

As with most TV shows, the "16-years olds" don't really look 16 because they're played by 20-something actors, but it was still we pretty off-putting; a literal power imbalance exploited for maximum humiliation. But let's see Hiram pull this crap with Kevin.

Edited January 26, 2018 by ahpny

[Enginerd]

8 minutes ago, ahpny said:

As with most TV shows, the "16-years olds" don't really look 16 because they're played by 20-something actors, but it was still we pretty off-putting; a literal power imbalance exploited for maximum humiliation. But let's see Hiram pull this crap with Kevin.

HA! I'd love to see Kevin show up Hiram. Really, Hiram, just how fragile is your sense of masculine dominance that you gain anything by defeating a kid who just took up wrestling yesterday? That was pathetic.

[Snookums]

Quote

Aren't they still there? Do you see the heart I clicked on your post? It's on the right side now on my screen.

Found it, thanks! Was totally derping, much like my avatar.