Continuity, Nitpicks, Unanswered Questions and Timeline Headaches: When Did That Honeycrisp Apple Come From

[Writing Wrongs]

Her magic was immobilized by the frozen spell. That's probably why her heart could be taken. IDK

 

I would really be interested in hearing Zelena's thoughts on that whole being frozen thing.

[Curio]

So being frozen somehow stopped her heart protection spell, but the glamour spell kept working because that's the excuse Adam uses to explain why the heart is so red.

[KingOfHearts]

Her magic was immobilized by the frozen spell. That's probably why her heart could be taken. IDK

I would really be interested in hearing Zelena's thoughts on that whole being frozen thing.

I find it funny that it happened to her. What would be even weirder is if Zelena knew who Ingrid was and faked the whole spell. But that's about as contrived as Zarian itself.

[Rumsy4]

This didn't even occur to me. Too many retcons to keep track of! The continuity person in the staff needs to be fired. 

[Mari]

The continuity person in the staff needs to be fired.

I just figured they didn't have one. Edited September 30, 2015 by Mari

[Panopticon]

The continuity person in the staff needs to be fired. 

 

Seriously. This is not a daytime soap opera that's been running for fifty years and has had thousands of episodes written by hundreds of writers. These people have less than 100 hours of content to keep track of at this point, and most everyone who has been involved in the creation of that content is still working on the show. This should not be hard!

 

The issues aren't even limited to big retcons they chose to make because they changed their minds about the way the story should go (egg stealing and Zelena impersonating Marian). They make completely meaningless errors too, like this week forgetting that Emma should have been in Massachusetts rather than Minnesota when she was in elementary school. That location caption changed the story not at all; it was just sloppiness. 

[Curio]

They make completely meaningless errors too, like this week forgetting that Emma should have been in Massachusetts rather than Minnesota when she was in elementary school. That location caption changed the story not at all; it was just sloppiness. 

 

I'll admit that I don't know the exact dates and locations of every Emma flashback we've gotten so far. Does someone have a definitive timeline of when and where Emma has been leading up to her arrival in Storybrooke? Is it possible there was a small amount of time where she went to a foster center in Minneapolis for a few months before getting sent back to Massachusetts?

[Shanna Marie]

What would be even weirder is if Zelena knew who Ingrid was and faked the whole spell. But that's about as contrived as Zarian itself.

Didn't Ingrid confess to it? She told Elsa she was framing her for it so Elsa would see how much the people in the town hated magical people. If Zelena was faking, then that makes her revenge scheme even dumber and more out of character because that pretty much drove Robin into Regina's arms, and there was no guarantee which choice he'd make once "Marian" thawed. The scheme is already ridiculously contrived if she was counting on taking Regina's boyfriend and then letting her have him back just to take him again and then take him out of the city, knowing he didn't really want "Marian" but really wanted Regina, while Regina gets to continue living in luxury and isn't there to see her lover with someone else. If you throw in the freezing, taking herself out of the picture to give Robin temptation, it gets even sillier.

 

The thing I hate about the heart continuity is that in both cases it's a major plot point. "Marian"'s heart was able to be removed to save her life, and without that, there's no Zelena now, and there wouldn't have been any Author silliness. But Zelena was able to escape because her heart couldn't be removed, and without that, there might not have been a portal opened.

[Mari]

I'll admit that I don't know the exact dates and locations of every Emma flashback we've gotten so far. Does someone have a definitive timeline of when and where Emma has been leading up to her arrival in Storybrooke? Is it possible there was a small amount of time where she went to a foster center in Minneapolis for a few months before getting sent back to Massachusetts?

I can't give you specifics, but I can tell you that usually there's a lot of paperwork involved, and a compelling reason. With the families I know about, both states had to approve it, and the state the child was going to might not, partly because it's a hassle, and partly because moving into the state would often mean that the new state would now need to pay for the child's healthcare, schooling, and family stipend.

With kids in the foster system, whose biological family was moving, I've known it to take months before the kid's move was approved. Granted, those families often had other problems, too, but I'm not sure that a state would even consider moving a foster kid in Emma's situation.

The reason the move worked when they had the Ingrid and Lily flashbacks was because Emma was caught in Minnesota, after having run away and while there she stole something and illegally entered property. Once caught in Minnesota, she'd be their responsibility.

[KingOfHearts]

Maybe Zelena turned off her protection spell while glamoured? That's about as logical as her almost getting killed by the snow monster. Maybe she even willingly took the ice curse for OQ angst. It's pretty obvious she faked the second spell.

Edited September 30, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

Maybe Zelena turned off her protection spell while glamoured? That's about as logical as her almost getting killed by the snow monster. Maybe she even willingly took the ice curse for OQ angst. It's pretty obvious she faked the second spell.

Yeah, I can buy the second spell being a fake, but the plot still doesn't hold up. So we have Zelena, who's incredibly jealous of her sister getting all the good stuff while she felt unloved and second-best. Regina got to be a queen while Zelena was a cast-aside peasant. Rumple chose Regina and not Zelena to cast the curse. Zelena reveled in Regina's clothes and jewels when she took over Regina's castle. Her grand evil scheme was to rewrite history so that Leopold married Cora instead of Eva and Zelena would be raised as a princess, with Regina never being born. So when her "death" opened the time portal and allowed her to go through incorporeally, she:

1. Followed around Hook and Emma and killed and replaced Marian as a way of getting back to Storybrooke -- even though she was in the past where Regina was a queen and the curse hadn't yet been cast
2. Discovered that she was playing the role of Regina's boyfriend's believed-dead wife (how lucky was that?)
3. Spent about 30 seconds railing (quite rightfully) about the wrongs Regina had done to Marian
4. Nearly let herself be killed by a snow monster, even though no one was watching
5. Praised Regina for no longer being a monster, even though no one was watching
6. Got put under an ice curse, during which time her heart could be removed from her body, and leaving the path clear for Robin to be with Regina
7. Came out of the ice curse, praised Regina for saving her and said she wouldn't stand in Robin's way because he and Regina really loved each other, then faked still being under the curse so she'd have to leave town, counting on Robin doing the right thing and going with her
8. Left town with a man she didn't actually like (and who apparently isn't much of a lover) to live in a crappy New York apartment with him and his kid and get pregnant by him while Regina remained in Storybrooke in her mansion with her designer wardrobe

 

Her faking the first ice spell or dropping her heart protection while she was glamoured only makes her plan make slightly less sense.

 

I suspect the Minneapolis thing in the latest episode came about because the last time we saw Emma, she was in Minneapolis, and they forgot entirely about Boston. But if she did for some odd reason spend some time during childhood in Minneapolis, that might explain why she went there when she ran away from the group home in Boston.

[OnceUponAJen]

A couple of things have occurred to me.

a) As long as she was giving Regina the dagger anyway, why didn't Emma have Regina order her to not hurt anyone or use magic, except in self-defense or defense of others? (Or a similar order.) Emma asking it would get around that pesky free-will thing, and if using the magic is what's opening Emma up to the influence, why not cut that off?

Order her not to steal the dagger from any of the Nevengers while you're at it.

[Camera One]

Shouldn't Henry be asking how the Author job actually works?  Should he be taking notes or something about how Dark Swan almost killed Merida à la Isaac lurking in the bushes?

 

Surely, they can't leave this question unanswered for long?

[KAOS Agent]

Here's a question I have about redemption and darkness and whatnot. How come Regina tells Emma that she can't kill Lily because it'll send her down a dark path and it'll be super hard to come back from it when at the very same time Regina was heading to NYC with a gun and planning to take out Zelena? Does committing murder in the past exempt you from falling back into the darkness when you commit murder again? If Regina is a hero now, how can they justify any actions she was planning there? Hook pulled on gun on Ursula and immediately told Emma how easy it was to fall back into the darkness, but Regina runs around plotting murder, enslaving men, stealing blood and abetting torture and she's unaffected by it all. I don't get it. I'm not even trying to bash Regina here. I'm genuinely interested in how they portray this so called darkness affecting one character with a fairly minor infraction while another is doing a whole lot worse and is not bothered a bit about it. 

[didia]

Regina is special, she can't be tempted  by darkness (LOL)

 

I believe the writers would talk about motivation. Regina was trying to save Robin, and Emma had other options, if she is afraid of Lily's intentions just don't bring her to Storybrooke! I think what is really difficult to explain is the Cruella situation, Emma was trying to save Henry!

 

I think I'll just accept they treat Regina differently. They want Regina to be a hero, but they love to play with the Evil Queen too.

[Camera One]

Lily was an innocent person and she was only damaged because of Snowing.  So Emma can't take out her anger on her.  

 

However, Zelena was a murderer.  To be fair, Regina also came to the epiphany that it would be wrong to kill Zelena.  Note that Regina took the hard way with Zelena while Snow took the easy way with Cora.  

[KAOS Agent]

Right, but my issue wasn't that what Emma was doing was wrong, it was that the show was implying that once you give into the darkness, it's very, very hard to come back. And you have to fight very hard to stay in the light such that any little bad thing could put you right back to evil. This was demonstrated by Hook's very real fear of his evil hand and pulling the gun on Ursula. He said the darkness creeps up on you and it's easy to fall back into it. So why the hell can Regina do the shit she does and not have a single instance where she's in the darkness at all? Just planning to kill Zelena is a no go in this stupid "heroes don't kill" world and ultimately, no matter what Zelena has done, shooting an unarmed woman in cold blood would also be murder.

[Mari]

 So why the hell can Regina do the shit she does and not have a single instance where she's in the darkness at all? 

 

Well,

Regina never has, and so [the writers] wanted to give that to her."--Lana Parilla

and

"There's just so many people that it's like, it's sometimes hard to do that story and sacrifice Regina's story. That's just showbiz." —Edward Kitsis

 

That's all I've got, I'm afraid.

[Shanna Marie]

So, trying to work out the timeline here:

 

At some point in the past, we see Arthur, Lancelot, and Percival, looking pretty much exactly the same way they do now, not even the slightest attempt to make them look in any way different (like Emma's glasses), when Arthur pulls the sword from the stone.

 

During the war against George and Regina, Lancelot shows up in the Enchanted Forest. As I recall, Snow and Charming had at least heard of Camelot. Lancelot was exiled from Camelot.

 

The curse happens, and 28 years pass, though the Enchanted Forest citizens and Coradome residents don't experience the passage of time.

 

Lancelot is said to have been a leader among the people who were trapped in the Coradome after time started moving again. Cora impersonates Lancelot and it's suggested she killed him.

 

A couple of years after time starts moving again, the Storybrooke gang ends up in Camelot, and Arthur refers to a prophecy that they would arrive. He also talks about a prophecy they've had for about a decade.

 

Then, to throw a real monkey wrench in, Percival talks as though he was a witness to Regina gleefully burning a village during her reign of terror before the curse, and says it was when he was a small child.

 

There's some wiggle room in Lancelot's presence in the Coradome, as we don't know that he was ever actually there. It could have been Cora impersonating him the whole time. Mulan recognized Hook as someone who joined the residents of Haven, but was she familiar with Cora?

 

There's also some theory that Percival wasn't actually the boy he mentioned but was acting on that child's behalf. That would eliminate that timeline issue.

 

But we still have Lancelot on the outs with Arthur and in the Enchanted Forest pre-curse, and we've now seen him with Arthur, apparently before Arthur was king, with Arthur not having obviously aged. That makes it look like Camelot was also somehow frozen in time for some reason, somewhere along the way. The "decade" Arthur refers to might not count the years frozen in time, so that what he's talking about is actually 48 years ago, as opposed to actually being ten years ago, during the curse.

 

I've had another wacky thought that the Lancelot Snow and Charming met was actually Merlin in disguise, making sure Emma would be born. That would make things line up better, and then Percival could have been the small child, all grown up, and Camelot wasn't actually frozen. Except then how would Snow and David have heard about it? I don't remember how much they knew about Camelot when Lancelot showed up. When Charming faked Excalibur to give Snow confidence (groan), was it still just a legend, or did they know at that time that the sword had already been taken from the stone?

[Curio]

Does the timeline work better if Percival was referring to himself as an older boy, like 14 years old? And then the Percival we saw attack Regina was just an older-looking young 20-something? Or am I over-thinking this?

[YaddaYadda]

Does the timeline work better if Percival was referring to himself as an older boy, like 14 years old? And then the Percival we saw attack Regina was just an older-looking young 20-something? Or am I over-thinking this?

 

 

It still wouldn't work because of the timeline they gave us when Arthur went to pull the sword out of the stone. Arthur is king when Lancelot meets Snowing. Snow has heard of the knights of the round table, she recognizes Lancelot's name. If we go by that, then Percival can't be that boy. Or at least I don't think he is.

[Camera One]

We still haven't had the Snow/Lancelot, "Wait, aren't you supposed to be dead?" convo.  I guess that is when we get some answers.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Camera One

[kili]

It still wouldn't work because of the timeline they gave us when Arthur went to pull the sword out of the stone. Arthur is king when Lancelot meets Snowing. Snow has heard of the knights of the round table, she recognizes Lancelot's name. If we go by that, then Percival can't be that boy.

 

I've got the Calvinball, let me try. Let's start by believing that everybody is telling the truth and the timeline is something like:

Regina burns down Percival's Village (RBV)

King Arthur, Lancelot and Percival pull the sword out of the stone (SOTS)

King Arthur and Lancelot have a fight and Lancelot ends up in the EF and marries Snow/Charming (MSC)

Merlin Creeps out Youn Emma (CYE)

Lancelot is Maybe Killed by Cora (KBC)

Merlin is Turned into a Tree (TT)

Granny's Arrives in Camelot (GAC)

 

The problem appears to be that GAC is 10 years after SOTS and 32 years after RBV while SOTS needs to be 20 years after RBV and 30 years before GAC.

 

So, clearly, what happened is that Regina burned down the village and the Shadow took Percival (now a lost boy) to Neverland for about 10 years and he escaped to the world without magic with Neal/Bae. After about 15 years, he got a job at a movie theatre where he met an old guy named Merlin who liked creeping out the little kids and they got talking one night and it turned out they were from the same realm. So, Merlin creates a portal out of an old boot and some silly putty and sends them both back to the Enchanted Forrest where they run into a little girl named Merida. She tells him about a strange stones that whisper to people and they explore. Magic happens and the stones turn into people (including Gwen, Arthur and Lancelot). Merlin makes a few prophecies, Arthur pulls the sword from the stone and then a magical bear causes Merlin to be turned into a tree and freezes Camelot for 10 years. The arrival of Grannys unfreezes them, but they know it has been 10 years because. (just because) Stuff happens in Camelot (including Percival's death) and stuff happens in Storybrook and the Camelot people go home. Lancelot and Gwen have an affair and Arthur gets made and Lancelot runs off only to encounter a magical bar stool that transports him back in time to King George's land. He gets a job working for King George when he encounters Snow who he remembers and knows he has to get her to marry Charming and to get Ruth to give up her life.

 

Boom! Continuity restored. Why not? Regina's never been to a ball and Furies suddenly demand payment from people who have had their lives saved.

[Camera One]

I found out why Regina never learned to dance.

 

A very long time ago, on a very joyous day, Prince Henry and his wife Cora were celebrating the birth of their first child... well, his first and her fourth (oops, revealed the twist in Season 7).  The fairy godmothers of the neighboring realms had gathered to give Baby Regina gifts from their rulers.  Regina was gifted with... uh... moving on, then the nasty fairy godmother from the realm of Eva and Leopold stood up.  "Regina, the gift I bestow you is two left feet.  Your dancing skills will be atrocious."  Cora gasped.  The evil Eva had ruined her life again.  Forevermore, Cora stopped Regina from dancing so not to embarrass her family, and Regina learned to fear dancing.  What a shame her life was destroyed by Eva, as she was an innocent.  The ceremony ended abruptly.  Meanwhile, a wedding guest, The Fury, was angry she didn't get to eat dessert at the buffet due to the premature termination of the celebration, so she vowed to wreak revenge on Regina in the future.  The end.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

 

I found out why Regina never learned to dance.

Your story is plausible because it's not Regina's fault at all and someone else is to blame.

Edited October 8, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[KingOfHearts]

 

I don't think Rumple was supposed to have known about the Eggbaby switch, since he had no inkling that Lily's blood could have substituted for Emma's to make the Ink.  It would have made more sense IF he had known.  As it stands, resurrecting Maleficent was next to pointless.

Part of me thinks he had to have known. The only reason I could think for him reuniting the Queens of Darkness is that he wanted Emma to get mad at Snowing. He had to have found out about the Eggnapping at some point because he used Snowing's blood to resurrect Maleficent. Why else would he need to grab Cruella and Maleficent? He's the Dark One - after getting back into Storybrooke and getting the Dagger, he would take what he wanted by force. He didn't need lackeys. The only plausible explanation is that they were manipulation to darken Emma, and maybe even neutralize Regina.

[Camera One]

I have been struggling to come up with a logical reason for him reuniting the Queens of Darkness as well.  It throws me off though that Rumple didn't mention any of it.  And it was awfully un-Rumple-like not to realize all along that Lily's blood could be used instead of Emma's.  Rumple using Cruella to make Emma "dark" seemed to be him just using a lucky scenario which ensued, since he had no idea Cruella knew Isaac.  

[orza]

The reason is most likely that they needed to be good corporate citizens and promote other Disney brands. The show is, after all, a for-profit business in the Disney concern. Merida is no doubt appearing on the show this season for the same reason. An awful lot of creative decisions are driven by business decisions made by people higher up in the abc/Disney organization.

[KingOfHearts]

 

The reason is most likely that they needed to be good corporate citizens and promote other Disney brands. The show is, after all, a for-profit business in the Disney concern. Merida is no doubt appearing on the show this season for the same reason. An awful lot of creative decisions are driven by business decisions made by people higher up in the abc/Disney organization.

This has to do with the show's continuity. We're not talking about meta creative/business decisions here.

Edited October 17, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[orza]

When push comes to shove, continuity sometimes needs to take a back seat to business. Continuity is important but not necessarily a high priority. This show is a business. That impacts every decision from casting and costuming to script writing and story arcs

[KingOfHearts]

 

When push comes to shove, continuity sometimes needs to take a back seat to business. Continuity is important but not necessarily a high priority. This show is a business. That impacts every decision from casting and costuming to script writing and story arcs

Yes, but that doesn't stop over-analytical minds from attempting to find a reason for major plot points. We're not looking for an ultimate solution that involves including the meta. Our brains naturally want to figure continuity out within a complex show with multiple possibilities. That's why many people develop headcanons or nitpick. While I don't think we needed a full answer to enjoy 4B, it's still fun to speculate.

Edited October 17, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

I was just wondering what it would be like if A&E set continuity rules at a supermarket.

 

STORE GREETER: Hello everyone, it's free shopping day!

CASHIER: Rumple, great choice, five thousand spools of thread. Free for you!

CASHIER: Hello Regina, wonderful choice.  Five hundred boxes of apples.  Free for you!

SNOW: Hello, beautiful day isn't it?

CASHIER: That will be $5000.  

SNOW: I thought it's free shopping day?

CASHIER: Every merchandise comes with a price!

SNOW: But why didn't Rumple and Regina have to pay? 

CASHIER: Their purchases came with a price too.  It's just YOU are paying for it.  

SNOW: Uh... 

CASHIER: Step aside and stop wasting my time.  Hello, Robin.  Great choice.  That will be $100 please.

ROBIN: If I say I'm buying this for someone else...?

CASHIER: Free!

ROBIN: Thank you.  I owe a great debt to you.

EMMA: Hello, I'm buying these socks for the homeless.

CASHIER: $5000 please.

EMMA: What?  Didn't you just say...

CASHIER: That doesn't apply to you, 

EMMA: Why?

CASHIER: Because.  Fill in the blanks.  It's the funnest part.

Edited October 18, 2015 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

In 3B, why did Zelena invade Regina's castle when she did? She apparently spent at least a few years in Oz before the curse after finding about her sister. It's difficult to imagine her not going to Knifington Palace and roasting Regina. If she was waiting for the castle to be clear, she could have come after time stopped being frozen. 

 

My question is, why did she wait until just before Team Storybrooke came back to EF? She couldn't have known about the curse ripping when she invaded because apparently she had already spent some time there threatening Aurora and Phillip.  

Edited October 18, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Mari]

So, if we assume the Camelot five years ago timestamp doesn't include the curse years, how much has to fit into the two and a halfish years between Lancelot getting exiled and the curse?

[KingOfHearts]

 

So, if we assume the Camelot five years ago timestamp doesn't include the curse years, how much has to fit into the two and a halfish years between Lancelot getting exiled and the curse?

I've tried making a crazy theory where the Dark One's vault is a metaphysical world that the DO was able to reach into during the curse. But there's several problems, like the dagger being there and Guinevere and Lancelot not being frozen.

[Rumsy4]

It was meant to exclude the 28 years. Otherwise it makes no sense. 

[Shanna Marie]

In addition to time, I'm wondering about distances. When Belle and Neal went to the Dark One's vault, it was apparently in walking distance from Rumple's castle, which would make sense. In Emma and Hook's time travel adventure, Rumple's castle was apparently in walking distance from Regina's castle -- and Hook managed to walk it with "Marian" over his shoulder. Now we're seeing that Camelot is an easy walk from the Dark One vault. Unless maybe it migrates to be near the current Dark One?

 

So basically, we have all these kingdoms in walking distance of each other. Like, walk about three miles and you're in another kingdom with a legendary king. And yet somehow the Enchanted Forest people have never met Arthur, apparently never attended a ball where they ran into him, and didn't invite him to the royal wedding.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Now we're seeing that Camelot is an easy walk from the Dark One vault. Unless maybe it migrates to be near the current Dark One?

It's like sitcoms that visit Disney World. They treat it all as one park with everything in walking distance, but in reality it's different parks. These kingdoms all have to be very tiny. You got Snowing's, Rapunzel's, Eric's, Arendelle, Camelot, Midas's, The Northern Kingdom, Henry Sr.'s, possibly Sir Maurice's. It's all very scrunched in.

 

 

It was meant to exclude the 28 years. Otherwise it makes no sense.

Yeah. It still aggravates me though. It's like saying the sky is green and expecting you to believe it because reasons. A&E are no strangers to that kind of method... There are four lights!

Edited October 19, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[kili]

Now we're seeing that Camelot is an easy walk from the Dark One vault. Unless maybe it migrates to be near the current Dark One?

I've decided the Dark One's vault is like the doors in "The Magician's Nephew". There are Dark One vaults in all the realms and you enter your local vault and go through the the portal door that takes you to the central Dark One Grove. It's also kind of like Jefferson's Hat Door room and you just have to stick your fingers in your ears and go "LaLaLaLa I can't here you" when people ask why Rumple didn't use those Dark One doors to get things from other realms instead of getting Jefferson to do it. 

[Camera One]

Everything about the Dark One vault made no sense to me.  So if the Dark One is dead and you touch it, it resurrects the Dark One.  But if there's an existing Dark One, you can visit.  And it contains the swirling gooey darkness, but it doesn't kill you and it's afraid of torches WHICH ARE FOUND INSIDE THE VAULT ITSELF.  It's giving me a headache to even think about this.

[Mari]

Since the timeline (and its many problems) is a perennial topic of conversation, I figured we could start a thread dedicated to it, in part so that we can have a resource when we have questions in the future.

 

Here's the important stuff (with problems) that I have so far:

 

Snow and Charming met roughly 3.5 years before the Dark Curse hit in the pilot. Logic behind it: 'Snow Falls,' when Snow and Charming meet, takes place in the spring/summer and their adventures over the first season take roughly a year--we know this because 'Heart of Darkness' takes place in winter, but it's spring again in 1x22 when they get engaged (which is consistent with summer weather in 1x10--it's later in the summer that David sends the letter and ultimately goes on the run. He and Red must have traveled together for a few weeks/months). It probably takes them another year to get married in the state wedding of the pilot--it seems to be coldish weather in 2x10, when they win, but then their honeymoon is during generic spring/summer weather. Emma is born over a year from the flashbacks in 'The New Neverland' (her birthday is in October, whereas 'New Neverland' takes place in spring/summer--it must take them a few months to conceive). So if you add up the year Snowing spent finding each other, a year to conquer the kingdom, and say 1.5 years between the state wedding and Emma's birth/the curse, you're at 3.5 years from their meeting to the curse hitting in the pilot.

 

Belle/Rumpel's timeline relative to Snowing's: Roland is around 3 when season 3 starts, which means he must have been around 1.5-2 when time re-started in the pilot (S1 takes place over a full year, but S2 is just a few months). Let's say 2, because figure in 3a Roland is probably 3 years and a few months--people just don't usually say "he is three years and five months old." So, that means Belle met Robin Hood just over 2 years before the curse (Marian looks like she's just about to give birth in 'Lacey'). In other words, Belle meets Robin a few months after Snowing get engaged, while they're fighting to re-take the kingdom but before they have won (which fits--1x22 has always seemed very spring-y to me, and 'Lacey' seems definitely to be summer). Which means that Rumpel probably "recruits" Belle right at the time of Snowing's engagement, 2.5 years pre-curse. And Rumpel probably banishes Belle around the time that Snowing beat Regina, 1.5 years pre-curse, maybe a little earlier because I think Belle says she spent "months" with Rumpel, not a year.

But their timeline is the one that is screwy.

 

First, 'Ariel' poses a problem here, because you have Regina mentioning Ariel at the very end of 'Skin Deep,' which means that 'Skin Deep' must end about 3 years before the Curse (because in 'Ariel' it seems clear that Bandit Snow has already met Charming, but she hasn't gone after him in 1x10 yet). But 3 years pre-curse Belle hasn't met Rumpel yet....

 

Moreover, in 'The Evil Queen,' Rumpel seems to have just "recruited" Belle--he says "I already have a maid. Promising girl, actually!"--but 'The Evil Queen' is set even before Snow and Charming meet (so say 4 years pre-curse). This episode is also before David is recruited to be James, because Rumpel tells Regina to cut off trade with George's kingdom, which must put them in the dire straits of 'The Shepherd,' confirming its early status. So again this contradicts Roland's age, but actually is consistent with 'Ariel,' because if he's just met Belle 4 years pre-curse and obviously sent her away 3+ years ago, that matches the "months" comment Belle made.

 

So the Rumpel/Belle timeline can be consistent either with Roland's age or 'The Evil Queen'/'Ariel,' but not both, I think.

 

fwiw, in 2x09, Snow and Charming are already married (Rumpel plants the idea of the Curse in Regina's mind on their wedding day, per 2x10, and Regina is already thinking of the curse), and based on the tally marks in Belle's cell, she's been held by Regina for at least six months at that point, probably way longer. Which doesn't help with much, but.

 

Snow on the run: It seems to me that Snow was on the run for at least a year when she meets Charming. Again, we know that it's spring/summer when the Huntsman lets her go and there's at least one winter ('Red Handed') in between her escape and when she meets Charming (which is in the summer). The show has never said, but my personal headcanon is that she was on the run closer to 2 years; it just doesn't seem possible that we could go from the Snow of 'Red Handed' to the Snow of 'Snow Falls' in like six months (and where do you fit 'The Evil Queen' in, too?). It seems likelier to me that 'The Evil Queen' takes place about a year from Snow going on the run (gives her time to get good at fighting), and then 'Snow Falls' is closer to two (gives her time to get truly bitter/pessimistic about Regina+acquire some fairy dust). But at minimum Snow was on the run for a year. So Snow goes on the run 4.5-5.5 years before the Curse.

 

Charming seems to have been taken to be James about 4 years before the curse; this is consistent with 'The Evil Queen' (if, as I've speculated above, that episode is 4.5 years pre-curse, that puts George's kingdom in heavy financial need half a year later, which is maybe a little fast but not impossible) as well as 'The Shepherd'/'Snow Falls' (where it seems like he's been pretending to be a prince for several weeks by the time he and Abigail take the carriage ride 3.5 years pre-curse, if you think about how much time all the travel must have taken).

I went to the beginning of the thread and grabbed this, because stealinghome did such a good job on it.

So, the Guinevere/Lancelot stuff must have happened right before--days before--Lancelot married Snow and David by Lake Nostros.

How well does the Rumple stuff fit in?

[HoodlumSheep]

A lot of the stuff gave me a headache this episode, but for once I don't care as much as I probably should. Yeah: it's still aggravating (I would like Adam to release a detailed timeline of the events from this episode in relation to everything else), but I am still loving this season. It's just so much better than 4b. I'm sure once I rewatch the arc in it's entirety it won't be as amazing as it currently feels, but for now I'm happy.

[KingOfHearts]

Definitely a nitpick, but Zelena's skin color is inconsistent. It turns green when she goes back in time, but goes back to normal when she comes back to Storybrooke. You can't say EF makes it green either because she's not green in Camelot. Yet, she's still very jealous of Regina.

[Serena]

Maybe the baby is affecting it?

[shoregirl]

Does Zelena still have the bracelet to prevent her from doing magic on? Could that be preventing her from going green?

[YaddaYadda]

I think 5 years in Camelot is like 10 years in the EF. 

 

It's like Neverland and not aging there because of the way time passes.

 

Or Storybrooke and parts of the EF where time stood still until the curse was broken.

 

Everything in Camelot is broken. It's not just the kingdom, it's everything in it. We don't know what initially broke it, but Merlin is stuck in the tree, so maybe he slowed time down, while waiting for the Savior to show up and release him from where he is. 

 

Merlin has already tried to influence two children by going to them. He told Arthur to pull the sword out of the stone and told Emma to leave the sword alone. I wouldn't put it past him to have screwed with time in Camelot somehow so that he can fit in his ridiculous prophecies.

 

A&E said in SDCC that Camelot exists in a parallel timeline.

Edited October 19, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[jhlipton]

I have been struggling to come up with a logical reason for him reuniting the Queens of Darkness as well.  

 

To form The Cleavage of Evil, the Greatest Girl band Of All Time.   Duh.

[Mathius]

I thought the 28 years of "time standing still" that evidently affected all realms (which was clearly stated in the original Pilot script, but it didn't make it into the actual episode) were just being discounted.  So 5 years ago cutting those 28 years out would be back when Rumple was still the Dark One in the EF and around the time he got Belle.

[KingOfHearts]

I thought the 28 years of "time standing still" that evidently affected all realms (which was clearly stated in the original Pilot script, but it didn't make it into the actual episode) were just being discounted. So 5 years ago cutting those 28 years out would be back when Rumple was still the Dark One in the EF and around the time he got Belle.

Yes, but this is the only time in the show's history that's been done. I'm pretty sure they've said "30 years ago" somewhere, but I can't recall when.

A&E said in SDCC that Camelot exists in a parallel timeline.

A&E clarified it works just like EF and Arendelle.

"To be clear, Camelot’s timeline is parallel to ours?

HOROWITZ | It works just like The Enchanted Forest or Arendelle. They’re all just a few days ride away from each other."

Source: (Warning: spoiler article) http://tvline.com/2015/09/13/once-upon-a-time-season-5-preview-emma-dark-hook-regina-zelena/

Edited October 19, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[LizaD]

I thought time didn't stand still anywhere post-curse, outside of Storybrooke. That's the reason for the Cora dome in the first place right? Everything outside of Cora's bubble was going to move in normal time but she put them in a time bubble to sync up with Storybrooke. Arendelle wasn't affected by the curse either way but Ingrid froze them. 

 

Also didn't Happy say 6 weeks had past in Storybrooke and the amnesiacs also took that as 6 weeks had past in Camelot too and figured that's the amount of time they lost? I took that to mean that those 2 places also were in-sync.

 

Which brings up something else that bugs, now that they made that fairy tale realm so so tiny that you can walk to another kingdom in a couple of days and apparently the great big Dark curse only took out a tiny portion of it. Don't the EF people now feel stupid for not packing up and going over to say Arendelle over somewhere farther? From the time of Snow's wedding when Woegina gave them notification to Emma's birth, that gave them 9 months to walk somewhere and escape! Why didn't anyone think of that? I mean Hook knew he only had to "outrun" it.