herbz February 8, 2018 Share February 8, 2018 The team event will basically come down to whether Patrick Chan can stay upright. Here's hoping nobody has made Patrick Chan aware of this. 8 Link to comment
Good Queen Jane February 8, 2018 Share February 8, 2018 (edited) According to Icenetwork, in team, Nathan Chen will be doing the short and Adam Rippon will do the long, Bradie Tennell will do the short and Mirai Nagasu will do the long, with the Shibs and S/K doing both. However, the decision of who does the long does not have to be announced until all the shorts are completed so it could change based on the scores. ETA: The start order for Men's Short and Pairs Short in the team event is listed here. You can also get the results of each skating event live as well as the judge's scoring after each event at this site. Edited February 8, 2018 by Good Queen Jane Add link. 3 Link to comment
ChicksDigScars February 8, 2018 Share February 8, 2018 (edited) On 2/4/2018 at 6:56 PM, herbz said: It's still like this frankly. The Shibutani's PCS were artificially held back for years while Davis/White were around and then saw their domestic marks increase the minute D/W stopped- not because they'd suddenly improved heaps, but because the US now needed a clear new #1 to promote internationally. There were rumblings that a few top couples were vocally unhappy about V/M returning because it was going to push them straight down the pecking order that their absence had allowed them to climb. I believe it. It's pretty rare for someone to really shake things up- V/M did it a decade ago, and P/C in 2015. That's about it. Papadakis and Cizeron were 13th at the 2014 World Championships, and then won the damned thing the next year (which is practically unheard of). It's not quite as rigid as it once was, but it's still hard to move up in Dance unless you have a post-Olympic mass retirement. Unlike the other disciplines, a splat fest due to jumping isn't a factor. Mistakes are more subtle. After this Olympics, I would think that Virtue and Moir are done, but Papadakis and Cizeron are fairly young, and this is their first Olympics, so I think we'll get four more years of face clutching romance novels on ice. I don't really see the three U.S. pairs retiring, either? Maybe Chock and Bates? That's a tougher call. They're all mid-20's. I'm thinking that Bobrova and Soloviev (27 and 28 years old) might retire, too. Cappellini (30) and Lanotte (32), as well. Quote It seems unfair that the nationals champions (H/D) wouldn't get to participate in the team event-if what TSL is reporting is true-but I'm honestly not that surprised I don't have a problem with it. Hubbell and Donahue turned me off this season with their sense of entitlement and Madison's rather snotty reaction to the Shib's short dance scores when the camera turned on her at the U.S. Championships. Plus, even though H/D won Nationals this year, the Shib's won the bronze at the Grand Prix Final and the last World Championship. So, those factors kind of cancel each other out. Truthfully, if high scores were the goal, the Shib's short dance has the highest scoring average among the three U.S. teams this season, but Chock and Bates' free dance is the highest scoring among the three. So, really, it's a wash as to who they were going to pick. I think that the Shib's had the edge due to the fact that they also have Olympic experience, which H/D do not. Not that it actually matters. Barring a mistake of epic proportions, any of the three U.S. teams are going to finish third to the "greatest ice dancers who ever skated," Virtue and Moir, and the "most special, floating, dreamy, symbiotic dancers that ever drew breath," Papadakis and Cizeron. I'm being totally sarcastic. And no, I don't think the Shibs should finish ahead of V/M or P/C, if they all skate well. My thought is that Canada and the Skaters Formerly Known as Russia, will be in a close battle, but closer than four years ago. Canada finishes ahead of Russia in Dance, Russia finishes ahead in Ladies, the Pairs is a toss up, and yes, it will come down to Patrick Chan standing upright. I think that the US only finishes ahead in Men's, third in Dance, third or fourth in Ladies and holy crap, Knerims, please don't pull a Jeremy Abbott, and sink the ship. Edited February 8, 2018 by ChicksDigScars 6 Link to comment
herbz February 8, 2018 Share February 8, 2018 (edited) I scored the whole competition and I do not believe P/C should have won the World Championships in 2015. Their FD created a beautiful mood, was a slightly new aesthetic for the sport, and was also riddled with execution errors that weren't appropriately reflected in the very inflated scores. The world of ice dance is in many ways as fixed as it ever was IMO- because P/C shouldn't have been 13th the year before so their ascent shouldn't have seemed so random. Their federation has been as much a hindrance in the past to them as they are a help now. Didier had previously prevented them from going to Sochi and the national judges weren't placing them as highly as they should be, not unlike what was happening with the Shibs in the US. It happens everywhere. If only one dance couple can do the team, I absolutely agree it should be the Shibs. They've got the highest international scores when clean and, excluding the last two competitions, a better record of consistency. I just wanted them split because I felt that, looking at the performances of all 3 teams this year compared to the performances of the individuals, another couple deserved a shot at a medal. But dance was also going to be the last priority, and it is what it is. V/M for my book are the greatest technicians this sport has ever seen, hands down. Artistry is obviously subjective, but I'll say that I'm glad they veered away from the lovey lyrical wafty stuff this year. Give me Pink Floyd and Carmen, Prince and Roxanne over Seasons any day. I'd be more into P/C if they ever experiment with a different style of movement, as elegant as their typical style is. The Shibs and H/D are fighting for bronze (C/B don't have the political momentum to push through unless errors are made IMO) but frankly they should be way closer to P/C than they are. I'd put a clean S/S short in second. None of the people in those two couples have the fundamental flaws in their skating that Papadakis has. Edited February 8, 2018 by herbz 4 Link to comment
Vera February 8, 2018 Share February 8, 2018 1 hour ago, ChicksDigScars said: I'm thinking that Bobrova and Soloviev (27 and 28 years old) might retire, too. Cappellini (30) and Lanotte (32), as well. Both teams are retiring. There have been rumors that Dima may continue with a different partner. W/P will retire too I think. With the U.S teams, even is all three stay on, I'm not sure they'll hold those placements for long. Hawayek/Baker, Parsons/Parsons, McNamara/Carpenter will all give them a run for their money. There's also Carreira/Ponomarenko. The depth the U.S doesn't have in pairs, they have in dance. 1 hour ago, herbz said: I'd be more into P/C if they ever experiment with a different style of movement, as elegant as their typical style is. For P/C to try a different style, they may have to start skating more in opposition, more in hold and less on two feet. While harder, doing so may mean they lose that floaty ethereal quality they have. 1 Link to comment
herbz February 8, 2018 Share February 8, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, Vera said: For P/C to try a different style, they may have to start skating more in opposition, more in hold and less on two feet. While harder, doing so may mean they lose that floaty ethereal quality they have. Quite. Which is why I think they are massively propped in PCS. This isn't meant to be Pairs Sans Throws. What's the flipping point of V/M, S/S, H/D etc etc working on mastering closed holds and changes of direction when you could just skate languidly side by side with pretty hands and receive higher components for it? Their two footing drives me mad (the presto section of Moonlight Sonata is full of it as soon as the choreo becomes more detailed because they're not precise enough to match the tempo change, and they fudged the Ravensburger so badly in 2016 I could scarcely believe it when they won the SD. Poor Shibs) V/M did the Valse Triste and Assassin's Tango at 17 and I don't think P/C would have a prayer of pulling either of those programs off now. The common claim is that they're 'effortless'. Well yeah, that might just be because what they're doing literally requires less effort. The more I think about it, the more I think I'll be cheering V/M on if they use their silver medal press conference to be worse sports than Maradona in 86. For some unfathomable reason they're about to be screwed. I'm a big, big fan of Hawayek/Baker. He got the Latin movement down better than virtually all of the top men this season, and their FD is just lovely. Good basics too. Looking forward to seeing their progression. Edited February 9, 2018 by herbz 5 Link to comment
displayname February 8, 2018 Share February 8, 2018 2 hours ago, herbz said: fundamental flaws in their skating that Papadakis has. What do you mean by this? Link to comment
herbz February 8, 2018 Share February 8, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, fan94 said: What do you mean by this? I could get really technical here, but the easiest place to see it is in her knees. She does not straighten them when extending, like ever. Completely ruins the line. They try to hide it in competition with long flowy skirts. And she's not particularly secure in her technique either, so she has to cling on to Guillaume to complete brackets and counters. Watch her rather than him in the NtMiSt and you'll see the instability in the turns. She skates on two feet quite a bit (noticeable in the more complex patterns) and hardly does any transitioning herself- she gets danced around and dragged into position a lot. So that they're getting the highest components in the field for skating skills and transitions is patently absurd, because there are several teams objectively better at it. She also doesn't sufficiently engage her core in lifts so he has to do far more work to change her position than he should. Watch V/M and how good Tessa is at distributing her own body weight- she's not being thrown around and then being put down, she's very deliberately placing herself while Scott supports her. If Gabby wasn't such a slip of a thing I'd be surprised if Guillaume wasn't well on his way to a back injury. Edited February 8, 2018 by herbz 2 Link to comment
displayname February 8, 2018 Share February 8, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, herbz said: I could get really technical here, but the easiest place to see it is in her knees. She does not straighten them when extending, like ever. Completely ruins the line. And she's not particularly secure in her technique either, so she has to cling on to Guillaume to complete brackets and counters. Watch her rather than him in the NtMiSt and you'll see the instability in the turns. She skates on two feet quite a bit (noticeable in the more complex patterns) and hardly does any transitioning herself- she gets dragged into position a lot. She also doesn't sufficiently engage her core in lifts so he has to do far more work to change her position that he should. Watch V/M and how good Tessa is at distributing her own body weight- she's not being thrown around and then being put down, she's very deliberately placing herself while Scott supports her. If Gabby wasn't such a slip of a thing I'd be surprised if Guillaume wasn't well on his way to a back injury. Oh, you mean the actual dance parts of the skating! Is there something in the skating that's bad, too, apart from the turns? How do the Shibs compare? They're my faves. Edited February 8, 2018 by fan94 Link to comment
herbz February 8, 2018 Share February 8, 2018 (edited) 52 minutes ago, fan94 said: Oh, you mean the actual dance parts of the skating! Is there something in the skating that's bad, too, apart from the turns? How do the Shibs compare? They're my faves. The instability, the transitions and the footwork are all part of the skating. I think she has many good qualities for dance- she has very expressive arms, gorgeous hands, and I think she acts very well, but she's a lazy skater. The Shibs have excellent technique. Better technique than their scores would suggest. They aren't as powerful, as fast or as crisp as V/M, but they don't sacrifice precision for speed in the way P/C do (and D/W did before them, don't kill me guys) and haven't been rewarded properly for it in the past. Their SD patterns are almost always textbook. Hubbell/Donohue have the better edge quality. Edited February 8, 2018 by herbz 3 Link to comment
displayname February 8, 2018 Share February 8, 2018 3 minutes ago, herbz said: she has many good qualities for dance Lack of extension, and not engaging the core in lifts is flawed technique for dance. 1 Link to comment
herbz February 8, 2018 Share February 8, 2018 (edited) 25 minutes ago, fan94 said: Lack of extension, and not engaging the core in lifts is flawed technique for dance. Of course, I was just (poorly) trying to separate out the good dance qualities she does have from the pure skating skills. It isn't really possible to separate them though, so that was a bit of a stupid endeavour on my part. Maybe I should've said some good qualities! I don't hate her or anything, and she has definitely improved big time since they first burst on to the scene, I just don't think they are OGM calibre as a team right now, especially given who they're competing against. Edited February 8, 2018 by herbz 2 Link to comment
displayname February 8, 2018 Share February 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, herbz said: Of course not, I was just (poorly) trying to separate out the good dance qualities she does have from the pure skating skills. Maybe I should've said some good qualities! I don't hate her or anything, and she has definitely improved since they first burst on to the scene, I just don't think they are OGM calibre as a team right now. Watching their 2016 worlds FD, she also just seems very sluggish compared to Cizeron. Link to comment
herbz February 8, 2018 Share February 8, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, fan94 said: Watching their 2016 worlds FD, she also just seems very sluggish compared to Cizeron. In fairness to her, that season she spent about 6 months off the ice after a concussion and I was impressed that she managed to complete that program at all. She's definitely got grit. She isn't nearly as good as him though (though I don't agree with the people who ascribe him godlike skating skills either, I think sometimes people get a bit lost in the exquisite upper body. He's got room to improve too) Edited February 8, 2018 by herbz 1 Link to comment
Moxie Cat February 8, 2018 Share February 8, 2018 7 hours ago, Good Queen Jane said: According to Icenetwork, in team, Nathan Chen will be doing the short and Adam Rippon will do the long Why is this? Zhou finished ahead of Rippon, as we all know; Zhou has more quads so can probably rack up more points; and trusting Rippon to do the routine that he choked on, to win for the Americans, seems a bit questionable. I think I'd be a little annoyed if I were Vincent. Otherwise, probably splitting the ladies and having the Shibs do both makes sense, even though I'm still not a fan of the Shibs' free this year (though it was better at Nationals than the GP). Link to comment
displayname February 9, 2018 Share February 9, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Moxie Cat said: Why is this? Zhou finished ahead of Rippon, as we all know; Zhou has more quads so can probably rack up more points; and trusting Rippon to do the routine that he choked on, to win for the Americans, seems a bit questionable. I think I'd be a little annoyed if I were Vincent. Zhou has poor PCS, no matter what the USFSA says, and melted down in both the short and the long during the GP season. He regularly underrotates his quads. Rippon melted down once -- in the US nationals FS. This makes sense. Also makes sense to me, since it was clear to me that Miner was discarded over Zhou, not Rippon. Edited February 9, 2018 by fan94 3 Link to comment
mtlchick February 9, 2018 Share February 9, 2018 (squees that figure skating starts tonight...tomorrow...whatever time zone it is, IT'S HERE!) 4 Link to comment
herbz February 9, 2018 Share February 9, 2018 Just seen footage of that lift change. Reports made that sound far more drastic a change that it actually is. Looks good to me. Idc what anyone says, I love the team event. I think it's because the athletes involved clearly love it so much. Link to comment
healthnut February 9, 2018 Share February 9, 2018 Looks like a lot of empty seats... 1 Link to comment
MaKaM February 9, 2018 Share February 9, 2018 Speed skating is at the same venue? Whew, sucks. I really like Nathan's blades. Those are neat. I wish the camera would back off a bit. Y'all gonna give him a complex, NBC! 3 Link to comment
Bewitched February 9, 2018 Share February 9, 2018 Is it weird that I think the ice sounds different? 1 Link to comment
AuntieDiane6 February 9, 2018 Share February 9, 2018 Quote Looks like a lot of empty seats... If I viewed the skating as someone who doesn't regularly follow the sport, I would already have switched the station. The skaters simply have got to produce a better show than those snore-fests we have seen so far. 1 Link to comment
WhitneyWhit February 9, 2018 Share February 9, 2018 I'm really enjoying the Time Life greatest hits music collection we're being treated to tonight. 7 Link to comment
mtlchick February 9, 2018 Share February 9, 2018 You're my boy Blue! -- er Patrick! This ice is in really bad shape. All of the men have fallen. I'm worried for pairs and the throws they will have to do. 3 Link to comment
Growsonwalls February 9, 2018 Share February 9, 2018 Patrick Chan is having one classic Chansplat. 8 Link to comment
SophiaD February 9, 2018 Share February 9, 2018 Johnny just admitted (before Chan performed) that Canada was the favorite over Russia in the team competition. Chan isn't my favorite, but it's a shame for his (presumably final) Olympics to start like this. I'm actually enjoying their commentary this evening, although Terry's constant adulation of Nathan is making me nervous. Let the guy skate, Terry! 1 Link to comment
Moxie Cat February 9, 2018 Share February 9, 2018 "A bit big" says Tara about Chanflation. Ugh, so worried for Nathan and this ice. 6 Link to comment
MaKaM February 9, 2018 Share February 9, 2018 Guess we are skipping Bychenko...for a repeat of Nathan's fluff from Tuesday. 3 Link to comment
herbz February 9, 2018 Share February 9, 2018 (edited) Oh dear. Practically ushered OAR through the door. ETA: might just be my screen, but this ice looks in terrible shape for the first event. Edited February 9, 2018 by herbz 3 Link to comment
SophiaD February 9, 2018 Share February 9, 2018 Wow, reuse of footage from Tuesday's program. Would rather see real skating now, please, NBC. Also, Nathan's ballet teacher is scary. And baby skating Nathan was adorable. 4 Link to comment
irisheyes February 9, 2018 Share February 9, 2018 It’s here! It’s finally here! I’m so excited that not even Tara and Johnny are annoying me tonight. I love every freakin’ thing about the Olympics. 2 Link to comment
mtlchick February 9, 2018 Share February 9, 2018 1 minute ago, MaKaM said: Guess we are skipping Bychenko... God bless the CBC in Canada. And you guys got robbed. For one, he stayed up. 1 Link to comment
Moxie Cat February 9, 2018 Share February 9, 2018 Wrong skater to skip, NBC packagers. 6 Link to comment
MaKaM February 9, 2018 Share February 9, 2018 (edited) Oh, geez, I forgot how much I actually hate watching this live. Tape delay + spoilers for me! ETA: Is the sound for the skater's music too low? Is that one of the issues? It seems so boring this time... Edited February 9, 2018 by MaKaM 4 Link to comment
Vera February 9, 2018 Share February 9, 2018 CBC is streaming the event here They are showing everything. Link to comment
Growsonwalls February 9, 2018 Share February 9, 2018 Oh dear. First a Chansplat now a Chensplat? 3 Link to comment
absnow54 February 9, 2018 Share February 9, 2018 Wow the ice must be really bad if even Nathan Chen is eating it. 3 Link to comment
WhitneyWhit February 9, 2018 Share February 9, 2018 Loving Nathan's Patrick Chan tribute. 9 Link to comment
MaKaM February 9, 2018 Share February 9, 2018 Weird. That warmup for him was so good and then that. Link to comment
SophiaD February 9, 2018 Share February 9, 2018 OMG! This is horrifying. I hope Nathan and Raf figure out what's going on with the ice before the men's competition! 4 Link to comment
AuntieDiane6 February 9, 2018 Share February 9, 2018 Quote Wrong skater to skip, NBC packagers. Yup. 5 Link to comment
healthnut February 9, 2018 Share February 9, 2018 Oh dear... My husband commented earlier he thought the ice looked terrible and I brushed him off but I think you guys are right. And it does sound crunchy. 6 Link to comment
AuntieDiane6 February 9, 2018 Share February 9, 2018 I'm beginning to think I should be watching the big Switzerland/Vietnam pairs curling event. 5 Link to comment
MaKaM February 9, 2018 Share February 9, 2018 Ooh, NBC is going to be bitching something fierce if the ice quality is not improved ASAP because this shit ain't gonna sell ad space. 7 Link to comment
Bewitched February 9, 2018 Share February 9, 2018 Both Chen and this OAR athlete look like they are afraid of this ice and a bad injury. Hopefully it will get better before anyone else competes. 4 Link to comment
MostlyC February 9, 2018 Share February 9, 2018 So....how does one know that the ice is bad (other than so many people splatting on it)? What is the criteria? 1 Link to comment
Jaded February 9, 2018 Share February 9, 2018 This is awful. That ice does look really off visually. Can't imagine what it's like to actually skate on. 2 Link to comment
AuntieDiane6 February 9, 2018 Share February 9, 2018 Quote ....how does one know that the ice is bad (other than so many people splatting on it)? Because the ice looks like my car windshield after an all-night ice storm when I'm rushing to work and don't have time to scrape it properly. 7 Link to comment
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