Season 7 Discussion

[Squirrely]

The quiet desperation in Michael's eyes really got to me. As much as I don't want to see another kid born into this cult, I would never wish her problems on anyone. I can't even fathom it in their world. And she still had the girls make a baby blanket for Alyssa! That shows some serious inner fortitude. 

Wonder how she handles the mentions of evolution at the zoo she frequents. I've never been to a zoo that doesn't have educational signs about some of the animals in that regard!

[ehall1052]

I really enjoyed the entire episode. The story line was so much more interesting than ones done by the “D” family.

I loved the segment with Michaella teaching her sisters to sew. That Callie is so stinkin’ CUTE AND ARTICULATE (notice I used capital letters ala Jill R. ?). I have a question though...Zach mentioned he had a tree job. You think he’s doing it as a side job or did he quit the police force? (By the way, Zach, too, is very articulate. Their dining room table school must have been more advanced)

[Bridget]

1 hour ago, XrystalPond said:

Michael seems so sad but has a much better attitude about issues with fertility than I ever did. Her ability to celebrate her sisters' pregnancies and nieces/nephews is admirable. I dislike the breeding for Jesus thing these people do, but I do hope she's able to have a child/children at some point. It's clearly something she wants badly. Even with all the opportunities in the world outside of this cult, I think she would still long to be a mother. I wish that her family would recognize her as more than a chore workhorse. 

Nathan just continues to exhibit that behavior I wish I could write off as something else. Dude needs to chill and admit that he's hardly living the life himself. I realize the truth is that most fundie girls are simply looking for a guy. Their standards are pretty low. But I would run from a grown man living with his parents, sharing a room with some of his brothers. That would be a red flag to me. 

Hahahahaha - breeding for Jesus! That will never not make me laugh!!

The only positive spin I can see about Brandon & Michaella’s fertility issues is that if/when they have kids, they won’t have 20 like she probably dreams about having. Or, perhaps she’s now OK with only a few kids now that she’s moved away and realized “Wow! Look at how much I get to do for me because I’m not raising my 16 siblings!” 

(Did we ever find out the exact root of this issue yet?)  I would never use the word “fault” in this situation, for obvious reasons, but all I can remember is that M had Dr. Vick examine her and he suggested running some unnamed tests. Insurance reasons aside, why do I think Brandon hasn’t been seen by a specialist? Maybe it’s because I’m not caffeinated yet, but I could’ve sworn it’s been mentioned that he hasn’t had his own bio material tested yet to make sure he can father a child.

Please feel free clarify or chime in if you know/remember something I don’t. 

Re: Nathan. I know, right? There is something going on with him. He tries to play it off like he’s truly happy teaching people to fly for Jesus, but it’s more like he is suffering from FOMO.

Maybe he’s jealous of Lawson & Trace in some weird way?

I’m just spit balling here. I truly have no idea why he is so hardened and sad.

I am not defending his behavior and there are no excuses for being that level of obnoxious, but as many have stated, his failed courtship obviously did take a serious toll on him. Perhaps he’s still trying to process what happened and didn’t properly grieve the loss of that relationship? Maybe he needs more closure or some therapy? Maybe he’s always been a misogynistic asshole and we never saw it?

I went to see a therapist when my ex-boyfriend and I broke up. I was devastated because it came totally out of the blue after 2.5 years. The reality is that we know he ain’t never gunna see no therapist to talk about feelin’s n stuff!

[zenme]

Zach has said he loves his job, so I don't see him quitting any time soon. I just think he's doing trees on the side on his days off for some extra money. I think it's smart.  

[BitterApple]

I think Zach does tree work as a side gig. On one of the last episodes, he mentioned having a tree job and his police cruiser was sitting in the driveway.

[cereality]

On top of being messed up because a woman dared to reject him, I also get the sense this sense that Nathan is the slightest bit “jealous” of younger brother Trace going to college and having all these “opportunities.”  While the Bates allowed all the kids to go to college, I feel like with the older kids, it was much more taking class here or there and then dropping out for a job or marriage; I don’t think Law and Nathan went at all.  With Carlin, Tori, Trace, Josie, there was much more “encouragement” of college – i.e. finishing a program before/after getting married rather than dropping out; Trace initially saying he didn’t want to go and Kelly telling him he really should go for a year and then he got some meaningless bible certificate in a year or two.

It’s not that Nathan missed some ivy league type experience, but he’s made sideways comments to Trace lately re – you’re in college, just find yourself a girl; or the whole lecturing of, you’re finishing college, you need to decide what to do with your life.  Who knows maybe he’s feeling a bit locked in as a “pilot” – and jealous that his 21 year old brother can do whatever he wants.  Reality is Nathan is not exactly over the hill at 24, though given how poorly educated these people are, maybe he does already feel “stuck” in a job with no options.

More than education, I do think he is totally jealous of Trace being in a situation where he’s around girls, while he’s in his fake flight training with 99% of people around him being men. His sisters have said that Trace has made a ton of friends in college and girls are always asking about him. Doesn’t seem like he’s courting yet, but when he’s ready financially – even if it takes a year or 2 – I don’t think he’ll have any problem calling up one of his old classmates and asking her out or one of his guy friends (who I suspect he’ll continue to hang with even though he’s not in school anymore) and get set up with their sisters.

OTOH – it seems like the siblings think Law and Nathan are annoying af and aren’t gonna do much to inflict them on some girl.  Erin – the family matchmaker – so much as said that she wouldn’t set them up, irrespective of the fact that she picked up Evan from off the street for her sister; it’s not like she has particularly high standards for men but even she thinks Law and Nathan don’t match up.  And Tori, Carlin, Josie, and Katie just look annoyed af every time Nathan speaks – usually criticizing the sisters for their hair or clothes or whatever – so I imagine they’re all playing the – sorry I don’t have any single girl friends – card.  And I think Nathan knows that he is neither good looking nor charming, so picking up a random girl at church (who probably stay away bc they know he’s an ass) or at a restaurant isn’t likely.  So it’s possible that 24 year old Nathan is really starting to worry where he’ll meet a girl since the one girl who liked him ran away screaming.

Interesting is that Zach is a good big brother who expresses concerns re his siblings – Jackson’s future; when Erin was miscarrying; Michaela’s baby issues etc., yet even he kind of mocks and stays away from Nathan.  He commented in the last episode that he doesn’t know where Nathan came from bc no other kids are like him.  Zach could sit him down and talk to him about letting the Ashley thing go, not blaming all women generally and realizing that he needs to work on making himself a better man etc.  Yet bc Zach doesn’t need to be lectured to, he’s probably like – do what you want, you know it all . . . .

[Absolom]

Ratings for this week:  194K viewers and a .04 rating.  147th cable show of the day.

[sATL]

Micheala driving to/from  the Chicago Brookfield Zoo w/o Brandon. Wow... I think the last time I saw her she seemed scared of the city. Glad she found a "friend " in the zoo.

[EVS]

40 minutes ago, sATL said:

Micheala driving to/from  the Chicago Brookfield Zoo w/o Brandon. Wow... I think the last time I saw her she seemed scared of the city. Glad she found a "friend " in the zoo.

La Grange and Brookfield are more suburban and less than 5 miles apart depending on exactly where they live. Michael mentioned that Brandon had gotten them a membership so they probably go regularly. It’s still not rural like where she grew up though, so I agree that it is great that she is comfortable driving there. 

I used to have a membership when my kids were young, but I haven’t been in at least 10 years. It made me nostalgic and it was interesting to see some of the changes. I want to go now, myself, lol. 

[sATL]

On 7/7/2018 at 8:02 PM, cereality said:

.  And Nathan says that he’s working at some school in Texas in teach other fundie young men to fly!? Uh – at this rate, why not put your skills to actual use and join the Air Force or get a job with a commercial airline/charter airline? Though as I say this, I kind of wonder if the business plan for many of these fundies is to pool resources and start a charter airline one day??

You can't fly for the Air Force (or Navy/Marines), unless you're an officer - which means at least a bachelor degree plus years of training, including flight school. Not sure if their homeshool HS pgm, will allow Nathan to enroll in a bachelor degree program at an accredited university. I guess a GED would though.

To fly for the Commercial Airlines (ie Delta, American, Southwest,,,) - I'm sure there is an equally long process ( link ). The few times I get to chat with a pilot in the airport - they received their training/certifications in one of the military branches.

I think he could go in as enlisted (unless the GED/diploma is an issue)  in the Air Force  ( link 2) , to be around planes, doing the job assigned to him, and be called an "airman".

Edited July 14, 2018 by sATL

[cereality]

I was writing fast and didn't literally mean Nathan was qualified to be a fighter pilot for the Air Force. LOL. I realize that Air Force pilots - whether sexy fighter jets or day to day cargo planes - are officers often from the Air Force or Naval Academies or otherwise college grads from ROTC programs with highly competitive follow up testing/training to actually qualify as pilots. Pretty sure the fundie dining room school doesn't qualify you to even survive one semester of freshman year at any US military academy (where you are studying engineering and calculus and physics), let alone graduate from one with high enough marks to actually be commissioned as a pilot. And I know Delta/USAir etc. are similar competitive roads and the pilot ranks are FULL of guys who flew for the military for 20 years and retired into a commercial pilot job.

I mean -- if you know you like planes, being around planes etc. -- why not ENLIST? That's all they are qualified to do -- I think they do have GEDs. You do mechanics, learn all about planes, airport operations etc. and it can be a decent career for life with good benefits, pensions etc. and I know in some branches (IDK about Air Force) there are non commissioned officers, so if you follow the path of degrees/certificates required which the military pays for, you can work your way up to NCO. Or you take your mechanics etc. training for 5 years and leave and go be an airline mechanic anywhere from American to FedEx -- all these companies hire TONS of them and it's good pay, benefits, some are union gigs; similarly you can do airport operations at like any airport anywhere though I think mechanics make more due to specialized skills. As I think of it -- I believe FedEx is even a Tennessee HQ in Memphis -- you train wherever the military sends you but 5 years later you are back in your home state for life if you snag a FedEx mechanic job. In any event these kinds of jobs allow you near planes all day, and you can save your money and do your flying hobby/flying to serve the Lord thing on weekends and on vacations!? IDK to me that sounds like a more legit career path than fundie flight school where you're training countless other fundie men to fly for no apparent reason since God forbid anyone take an actual job and make something of their career.

[floridamom]

cereality: This is excellent advice to the 'flying fundies'. I agree that the military would really train these guys to fly in the real world, benefits included. ...but that's just it. If you notice, these pilots, midwives, etc. do everything mediocre. They aren't being all they can be. They half ass most things and just get by. John David Duggar is a perfect example of that. All these 'pilots' only seem to fly small aircraft and for personal/family/religious business. One day, lack of benefits, retirement will bite them in the behind. How will God help them then, when they don't help themselves? The women, except for maybe Josie Bates, have no real work experience to fall back on if in the event they need it.

[BitterApple]

I haven't had a chance to watch the episode yet, but I wonder if Nathan's real gripe is the fact that his single status is preventing him from living a real, independent life. It seems to be a huge point of contention (which I actually agree with) that the marrieds get to do outings and couples dinners while single adult children are excluded. It's the Fundie equivalent of being forced to sit at the kids' table for Thanksgiving dinner when you're 19. 

I believe Josiah Duggar got married partly because he was sick of living in the boys' dorm and I can't help but think there's similar frustration going on with Nathan. 

In contrast, Lawson makes similar quips about the married vs. single dynamic, but I don't get the vibe it bothers him quite so deeply. He's basically living on his own anyways, so I don't think he feels the walls closing in on him the same way Nathan does.

[Bridget]

2 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I haven't had a chance to watch the episode yet, but I wonder if Nathan's real gripe is the fact that his single status is preventing him from living a real, independent life. It seems to be a huge point of contention (which I actually agree with) that the marrieds get to do outings and couples dinners while single adult children are excluded. It's the Fundie equivalent of being forced to sit at the kids' table for Thanksgiving dinner when you're 19. 

I believe Josiah Duggar got married partly because he was sick of living in the boys' dorm and I can't help but think there's similar frustration going on with Nathan. 

In contrast, Lawson makes similar quips about the married vs. single dynamic, but I don't get the vibe it bothers him quite so deeply. He's basically living on his own anyways, so I don't think he feels the walls closing in on him the same way Nathan does.

Exactly! I couldn’t agree with you more.

The more I think about it, the more I think he is climbing the walls at the house and has got to be quite desperate to get out of that house, especially as a single (gasp!) adult. 

Showing up to the I Love You Day steak dinner for the couples convinced me of that. 

He probably thought he’d be able to get out via marriage to Ashley and then that blew us in his face, leaving him both heartbroken and pissed off that he was stuck at home.

Since Lawson heads to Nashville for periods of time, Nathan probably goes to Texas to teaching flying for months at a time for the same reason: to get out of that house. It doesn’t seem like he’s got a solid bond with any of his siblings or has a partner in crime, so he’s definitely not missing anyone when he’s away for months at a time, which is normal (to me). 

[BitterApple]

I finally got around to watching the episode, and wtf, is anyone capable of doing anything without waiting for Michael to come home?! Fixing holes and sewing on missing buttons is easy. Any number of the older kids should be able to do that. 

Callie is so freaking adorable. I hope Michael and Brandon find some way to become parents soon. They're really good with kids. 

Also, does anyone know what suburb they live in? It looked really nice. 

I think Bobby will do well as a Youth Pastor. He's funny with a cool personality. I was surprised Tori was looking forward to the move. I was expecting her to whine about being away from her family.

Jud and Jeb are miniature Zach and Lawson. 

[lookeyloo]

I missed my two brothers when I got married the first time and moved away. We are not fundie and had a normal sibling relationship.  And I was married to who I thought was my one true love. But still missed my brothers. Wouldn’t surprise me if all that quiet took some getting used to m

[BitterApple]

I think Erin has turned into a higher-functioning Jill. She's not quite as needy, but she's equally clueless about how the real world works and doesn't cope well outside her bubble. Similar to how Jill clings to her buddy group, Erin is doing the same with her siblings.

[Sew Sumi]

She has her humblebrag game down, though. Her SM continues to exemplify the Perfect Life. 

[BitterApple]

Chad looks 40 at 30. I think he's nice-looking, but yet again Erin seems to be clueless as to the toll their lifestyle is taking on him. That picture is heavily airbrushed because he has tons of stress lines in real life.

On a side note, I think Everly looks exactly like Alyssa's daughters. She's much more chubby and filled out than Carson and Brooklyn were at that age.

[floridamom]

Erin is simply 'clueless'.

[Spencer Hastings]

Chad is certainly good looking but there’s no way he and I could pass for being the same age.  He looks like he needs a long nap.

[cereality]

Man being married to a Bates princess will certainly age a guy.  He doesn’t look 31 in that pic, he looks at least 41 with the bags under his eyes, wrinkles around his eyes, and a “smile” that is basically just showing teeth.  Erin has 0 awareness or else she may notice that every time she talks about the pregnancy with the 3rd kid – including in tonight’s episode and extensively in one of the earlier ones this season where they were setting up the nursery “haven” – Chad sits there and “giggles” uncomfortably, while she coos about how happy she’ll be with a baby in her arms – bc apparently her 1 and 2 yr old aren’t babies.  Then he chimes in with the requisite statements re 3 kids WOW, Lord’s blessings, so worried about delivery but I’m sooooo happy.  Uh yeah Chad we can see that, we believe you, really . . . .

And looks like Bobby is on his way to becoming Chad 2.0 but more useless.  They’ve been married for what 6-7 mos? And when tonight’s episode was filmed it would’ve been what, 3-4 months, max – maybe even less bc they were talking about it finally starting to be the end of winter? He already looks to me like he’s lost some weight on his face.  When they were courting/engaged, he had the start of a man gut; nothing terrible but he just looked like someone who didn’t work out and could get away with eating whatever and still looking good bc of his young age.  He had a jacket on in tonight’s episode so couldn’t see the gut, but his face looked noticeably thinner to me when they were sitting in that gas station deli joint talking to Gil and Kelly (who he still calls Mr. and Mrs. Bates post marriage) about his youth pastor job in Nashville and how he’d be chaplain for some Christian school and Tori will “try to do something” at the school!? Uh sweetie either you’re a teacher or you’re not and given that you’re pregnant IRL, no school is going to hire someone for YEAR ONE of teaching who then says – oh yeah but I’m only coming Sept to Nov and then I’m on maternity leave and we’ll try again next yr.  Looks like being married to Princess Tori is aging Bobby already and I have to imagine that Tori does NOT cook – and it’s not like they’re rolling in cash so I’m not sure that they’re eating out nightly either.

[BitterApple]

I think Tori, Erin and Carlin are the most high maintenance of the Bates girls, so I'm not surprised Chad and Bobby are aging in dog years. 

From what I saw of the engagement/wedding episodes, Bobby's parents didn't look remotely thrilled about their son marrying Tori, so maybe their negative impressions of her were spot on. I also got the vibe that his family was fairly well off, so I can't imagine they wanted their son mucking about in a trailer in the backwoods of Tennessee. Either way he's stuck screwed committed now, so he has to make the best of it. 

[Squirrely]

The fact that Nathan is a grown man living in a room with preschoolers shows just how fucked up their lifestyle is. If he's that desperate, he needs to get his own place and have a life that doesn't revolve around his family. They're so codependent and it's just not healthy. There is also nothing stopping him and Lawson from having meals outside of the home with other adults. 

I was thrilled to see Josie working in a real salon! This is the one thing I'll say the Bates do better than the Duggars. Alyssa worked for a florist before she got married. They were able to be away from home without chaperones, interacting with the general public. It's no coincidence that these are the daughters who seem to feel a bit suffocated by their family. Erin and Micheal found ways to earn money, but still within the fundie bubble. 

Edited July 20, 2018 by Squirrely
typo

[sATL]

has Zach been working on his upper body strength by lifting weights ? He looked bigger on top when he walked in with the shuffleboard design

[Sew Sumi]

Whitney's posted about them going to the gym, so I would say yes. 

[sATL]

12 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Whitney's posted about them going to the gym, so I would say yes. 

Well I hope he keeps up the good work. I wonder if his sheriff dept makes the officers re-test the physical test every so often.

[flyingdi]

7 hours ago, Squirrely said:

The fact that Nathan is a grown man living in a room with preschoolers shows just how fucked up their lifestyle is. If he's that desperate, he needs to get his own place and have a life that doesn't revolve around his family. They're so codependent and it's just not healthy. There is also nothing stopping him and Lawson from having meals outside of the home with other adults. 

I was thrilled to see Josie working in a real salon! This is the one thing I'll say the Bates do better than the Duggars. Alyssa worked for a florist before she got married. They were able to be away from home without chaperones, interacting with the general public. It's no coincidence that these are the daughters who seem to feel a bit suffocated by their family. Erin and Micheal found ways to earn money, but still within the fundie bubble. 

I thought the Bates family had more bedrooms than the Duggars? Don't they have at least 4 besides the parents room?

[Squirrely]

7 minutes ago, flyingdi said:

I thought the Bates family had more bedrooms than the Duggars? Don't they have at least 4 besides the parents room?

You may be right, come to think of it. But my point still stands. They're grown men who will never form their own social circles, and they won't leave home til they're married.

I'm not knocking every young adult who lives with their parents to save money or while they're in school. But most of them have not been brainwashed from birth to think they have no other choice. 

 

Zach and Whit are both looking good! I don't think Whitney looked bad at all before, but you can tell she's really working to stay fit. Good for her. I could use some of that myself! 

[floridamom]

There is a big maturity difference with adults who live at home but have a real adult responsible life outside of their parents' houses..ie, they either are going to a real college or trade school, have a real job in the workforce and the responsibility it brings and socialize with co-workers, vendors, clients, etc; people from all walks of life. They also have their own social life. Families like the Bates do NOT offer any of those opportunities for their adult children. They are merely 'tall children' who still live at home. They work some type of job, yes, but only recently with Josie working in a hair salon has this been allowed. I don't think Erin and Alyssa had the time to be adults at home as they both married rather quickly, at 19, I think. MIchaela is merely a babysitter and household chore provider. She may have gone to that Gothard approved college, but has no real work experience to put in practice. She's totally insulated. Sad, but true.

[Farmfam]

31 minutes ago, floridamom said:

There is a big maturity difference with adults who live at home but have a real adult responsible life outside of their parents' houses..ie, they either are going to a real college or trade school, have a real job in the workforce and the responsibility it brings and socialize with co-workers, vendors, clients, etc; people from all walks of life. They also have their own social life. Families like the Bates do NOT offer any of those opportunities for their adult children. They are merely 'tall children' who still live at home. They work some type of job, yes, but only recently with Josie working in a hair salon has this been allowed. I don't think Erin and Alyssa had the time to be adults at home as they both married rather quickly, at 19, I think. MIchaela is merely a babysitter and household chore provider. She may have gone to that Gothard approved college, but has no real work experience to put in practice. She's totally insulated. Sad, but true.

So by this standard, you are saying the boys are mature and responsible?

Lawson, Nathan, and maybe Trace all have jobs/ some *college and are living at home. That would be they have been exposed to social circles and others from different walks of life. 

 

*Trace has some college? Crown, but still...? I’ve read differing reports of being a graduate to only holding some certificate. 

[cereality]

11 hours ago, Farmfam said:

So by this standard, you are saying the boys are mature and responsible?

Lawson, Nathan, and maybe Trace all have jobs/ some *college and are living at home. That would be they have been exposed to social circles and others from different walks of life. 

 

*Trace has some college? Crown, but still...? I’ve read differing reports of being a graduate to only holding some certificate. 

I don’t think it’s just about having a job, I think it’s about having a job that has you interacting with people from all walks of life and holding onto the job for more than 3 seconds (ahem – Alyssa).  I think the only ones who meet this are Zach and Josie – and amongst the inlaws John, Kelton, and Chad.  When someone comes to Josie for a haircut or calls Zach when they’re stranded on the side of the road or calls John, Kelton, Chad for an HVAC, water or remodel issue, they can’t exactly say – hmm well have you received Jesus and then decide whether to take the job based on that answer; I mean I guess Chad could since he works for himself, but the rest of them have employers that are looking to make $$ and/or have government restrictions on these things.

That continuous, prolonged interaction with others is what lets you realize that people are people and you can be friends with them and interact with them normally whether they share your faith or not.  For Zach and Josie, not only is it about interacting with clients, it’s also about their coworkers.  Most jobs you aren’t busy for every single second of the day, which means you chat with coworkers and over time learn about how they live their lives and guess what they aren’t total immoral weirdos just bc they may not be as faithful as you, may have gone to regular school, have friends or even a spouse of a different race, watch TV/movies, date and even sleep with people before marriage, wear pants, have a mortgage etc.  It allows them broad exposure to the world that Nathan, Brandon etc. don’t have – he works at a fundie/ALERT type of flight school, teaching other fundie men to fly/ministering to other fundies, where exactly are they interacting with anyone at all different than themselves? Bobby is likely going down the same path with “ministry.” 

Trace/Law are kind of at a crossroads depending on what they end up doing – a secular job vs. a fundie facing.  Sure Law must have exposure to all kinds of things being in music in Nashville, but honestly I don’t know how much of that is his full time life vs. going to Nashville to record/write with the 1-2 fundies there he knows (Andy somebody) and then every so often putting together a show at some other fundie church in the country.

[Farmfam]

45 minutes ago, cereality said:

I don’t think it’s just about having a job, I think it’s about having a job that has you interacting with people from all walks of life and holding onto the job for more than 3 seconds (ahem – Alyssa).  I think the only ones who meet this are Zach and Josie – and amongst the inlaws John, Kelton, and Chad.  When someone comes to Josie for a haircut or calls Zach when they’re stranded on the side of the road or calls John, Kelton, Chad for an HVAC, water or remodel issue, they can’t exactly say – hmm well have you received Jesus and then decide whether to take the job based on that answer; I mean I guess Chad could since he works for himself, but the rest of them have employers that are looking to make $$ and/or have government restrictions on these things.

That continuous, prolonged interaction with others is what lets you realize that people are people and you can be friends with them and interact with them normally whether they share your faith or not.  For Zach and Josie, not only is it about interacting with clients, it’s also about their coworkers.  Most jobs you aren’t busy for every single second of the day, which means you chat with coworkers and over time learn about how they live their lives and guess what they aren’t total immoral weirdos just bc they may not be as faithful as you, may have gone to regular school, have friends or even a spouse of a different race, watch TV/movies, date and even sleep with people before marriage, wear pants, have a mortgage etc.  It allows them broad exposure to the world that Nathan, Brandon etc. don’t have – he works at a fundie/ALERT type of flight school, teaching other fundie men to fly/ministering to other fundies, where exactly are they interacting with anyone at all different than themselves? Bobby is likely going down the same path with “ministry.” 

Trace/Law are kind of at a crossroads depending on what they end up doing – a secular job vs. a fundie facing.  Sure Law must have exposure to all kinds of things being in music in Nashville, but honestly I don’t know how much of that is his full time life vs. going to Nashville to record/write with the 1-2 fundies there he knows (Andy somebody) and then every so often putting together a show at some other fundie church in the country.

Thank you for clarifying! I hadn’t thought any of the boys seemed mature or responsible, and let’s face it, I know lots of people that work and have adult responsibilities that don’t qualify either! This makes more sense!

[floridamom]

FarmFan, NO, I am not saying the Bates boy are mature....they are not mature IMO. They don't live regular single adult-guy lives with REAL jobs away from their parents' belief system, they don't have friends with whom they go out for a meal, go to a sports bar type place to watch a game together, they don't date. They are immature IMO. I think becoming a deputy sheriff has matured and changed Zach in ways we'll never even phathom. He has accomplished something and I admire him for getting out there and having a real, separate career from his family's interests.

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Folks,

Some of the posts were getting too personal.  Remember we are here to talk about a TV show.  Some of the topics on the show, especially around pregnancy and miscarriage, may relate to poster's personal history.  That is the reality of reality TV.  

If someone has you wanting to use language that would make the Bateses run for cover, take a break, take a breath and do not post until you can do so calmly, focusing on the show.  

As always, snark the show, not each other.  If you have an issue with a post, report; don't engage.  If you have a question, please PM @PrincessPurrsALot.

[Bessiesue]

FloridaMom, your post is spot on.  I also think this is Erin's issue. She is playing house, and does not understand the concept of real life.  Sure it is fun to have your Ken, and live like Barbie, but eventually reality sets in.  You learn to live within your means, and deal with life.  Poor Chad gives me the impression that he has no idea to talk real life issues with Erin.  They are stuffed like sausages in a tiny home.   

As much as I am in love with this family, Gill and Kelly have really hurt the older ones with their religion.  My poor Nathan ,I have run out of excuses for your nutty behavior.  I do wonder if someone in that flight school is also from a broken courtship, and feeding him all of this nonsense. Did anyone else catch the line about Trace telling Josie how he tried out for Dixie, and did not make it.  Poor thing is now two and 0.  He has been invited to a rodeo, but I have not seen anything on that either.  

Watching the younger girls vs the younger boys with Michael l is like day and night.  Those four girls have more manners between them than Jeb and Jud together.  I know she was very close to them, so I am guessing maybe she is responsible for their behavior.  Katie and Josie time will tell. My Mother always said she can tell how mature brides are by their weddings, so I am very curious how Josie will handle hers.  With nature dignity similar to Michael, or childlike aka Tori.   

[BitterApple]

Lord this episode was sooooo boring.

I'm eye-rolling Bobby dropping the "pregnancy bombshell" when Tori's bump was so obvious, to say nothing of the fuller face and noticeable weight gain.

I love Zach and Whit's house, but a white area rug near the front door is a bad idea. It will be impossible to keep that thing clean. 

I think it's awesome Jackson is working with Chad. He seems like the type who thrives under the attention of an older mentor, and he's learning skills that will make him employable as an adult (as opposed to Trace and his horse pageants).

[flyingdi]

I'm feeling sorry for Trace lately.  He seems lost.  

PS Bring back the bow ties, Trace!  Bow ties are cool!

[Evagirl]

I've said this before and it bears repeating - Gil and Kelly Jo made some very good looking kids.  I used to think Lawson and Nathan were the cutest older boys, but Trace has really come into his own and now, IMO, he better looking than any of the other 3 older boys.  I did a double-take when I saw him last night. 

All of the girls are so pretty.  I think it's the individual personalities that make each one stand out in their own way.

How I wish Michaela would get pregnant.  She's a true nurturer and would make a  good mom.  She's loves hanging out with her younger sibs.  Whenever she comes home, she always walks around with the youngest niece or nephew cradled in her arms.

I've enjoyed watching this family grow up on TV.  They have flaws as we all do, but in the end if everyone is happy and satisfied with the life they've chosen, who am I to put them down just because it's not the life I would have chosen for me?  When you've got kids that are healthy, not on drugs, not running the streets, respectful of elders,  living independently and most of all, a strong belief in following Christ, you're blessed.  

[Sew Sumi]

Will this season ever end? Next week is episode #28 with no end in sight! There has to be a happy medium between this and the 7 episode, bi-annual Duggarfest.

[sATL]

Zach managed to get everyone to always take off their shoes at the door ? Wow... you go Zach & Whitney...

I guess Kelli is going to make it to every grandchild's birth ??  

Edited July 28, 2018 by sATL

[Sew Sumi]

Next week is the FL trip.

[Absolom]

3 hours ago, sATL said:

Zach managed to get everyone to always take off their shoes at the door ? Wow... you go Zach & Whitney...

I guess Kelli is going to make it to every child's birth ??  

Not quite.  Carlin ignored him for sure.

[andromeda331]

13 hours ago, Evagirl said:

I've said this before and it bears repeating - Gil and Kelly Jo made some very good looking kids.  I used to think Lawson and Nathan were the cutest older boys, but Trace has really come into his own and now, IMO, he better looking than any of the other 3 older boys.  I did a double-take when I saw him last night. 

All of the girls are so pretty.  I think it's the individual personalities that make each one stand out in their own way.

How I wish Michaela would get pregnant.  She's a true nurturer and would make a  good mom.  She's loves hanging out with her younger sibs.  Whenever she comes home, she always walks around with the youngest niece or nephew cradled in her arms.

I've enjoyed watching this family grow up on TV.  They have flaws as we all do, but in the end if everyone is happy and satisfied with the life they've chosen, who am I to put them down just because it's not the life I would have chosen for me?  When you've got kids that are healthy, not on drugs, not running the streets, respectful of elders,  living independently and most of all, a strong belief in following Christ, you're blessed.  

So then it doesn't matter that none of the kids are allowed to chose their own lives? As long as their not on drugs and running the streets its completely okay that their not allowed to move out unless they marry. None of the girls can chose to work and not get married? None of them can chose to go to a different college or away for college? Or aren't allowed to date? That they have to marry the first person they are allowed to date? Do you really think any of these kids would have made these choices if they were allowed to have the options and choices most kids have? Do you think if any of them were allowed to move out and have their own apartment any of the eighteen or older would still be at home?  That Michaela had to potty train her younger siblings? That every time she comes home to visit Kelly always makes her work? That Alyssa had to do all the cooking? That Katie and Carlin are now in charged of the cooking and teaching their younger siblings? That Tori was doing it before them.  The Bates used the bubby system too. The parents didn't raise their kids anymore then the Duggar parents. 

Edited July 28, 2018 by andromeda331

[Sew Sumi]

Let's also not forget their abhorrent beliefs, courtesy of Bill Gothard. Hell, with Chad's father and another guy, they staged a coup and took over the cult for themselves. I suggest the OP Google IBLP and ATI for more information. The ATI Wisdom Booklets are floating around the internet. All of these tools illustrate the tools the Bateses and Duggars used to control their kids. 

[Nysha]

14 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Do you think if any of them were allowed to move out and have their own apartment any of the eighteen or older would still be at home?

Every one of the adult children can move out. Gil and Kathy, Jim Bob and Michelle, and all the rest aren't holding them against their will. It would be hard. They would have to break free of their indoctrination, their current standard of living and will no doubt struggle but they can all leave.

I think it's a horrible life choice but all of the married Bates have chosen, to some extent, to continue down their parents' path.

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, Nysha said:

Every one of the adult children can move out. Gil and Kathy, Jim Bob and Michelle, and all the rest aren't holding them against their will. It would be hard. They would have to break free of their indoctrination, their current standard of living and will no doubt struggle but they can all leave.

I think it's a horrible life choice but all of the married Bates have chosen, to some extent, to continue down their parents' path.

If you read up on Gothard which the family followed and that Gil Bates is on the board of along with Chad's father there's endless information on how to raise kids which both sets of parents followed and used on their kids. They also helped cover up the sexual harassment of girls in the cult for years at the hands of their leader. Until Gil and others were able to out him. The kids have been indoctrinated from birth. Both sets of parents admitted in the past to using the Pearls method before both scrubbed their blogs. The Duggar kids have been purposely under educated so they won't leave and won't be able to go out and get a real job. The Bates family looks shinier and pretty but their believes are just as horrible and just as horrible parents. None of the kids can leave unless they marry and move out. That's why none of the Duggar kids have been able to do that. Because their not allowed. That's why we've never seen Jana or Jessa living on their own in their own apartments unmarried. Or any of the boys.    

[Nysha]

I realize they are indoctrinated/brainwashed to follow the cult, but they're not being kept in chains or isolated from society. If they wanted to give up their current lifestyle and family ties, they could leave. The unmarried Bates adults work and/or go to college. I'm sure if they told their non-Gothard friends they needed to leave someone would help them. The Duggar adult children could call Amy or probably any of Michelle's extended family. TLC or some other channel would probably jump at the chance to film "Rescuing Jeremiah Duggar". If the adult Duggar kids' money is actually put in a pot and controlled by Jim Bob, anyone who left would probably be able to file a lawsuit claiming they were pressure and/or didn't understand what they were signing and get some compensation.

I'm not defending Gothard, the Pearls, or the parents. I'm just stating that the adult children can walk away at any time as long as they're willing to give up everything. It's not easy, but other cult children have done it with less exposure to the real world than the Bates and Duggars.

'

[BitterApple]

Not to defend their child-rearing methods, but it may not be worth it for the adult kids to move out. Lawson goes back and forth between Rocky Top and Nashville. Josie and (likely) Carlin will be married soon. Trace has no job and Nathan probably can't afford to live on his own. 

As far as the older kids, Alyssa married at 19 and Erin married while in college. When Zach was in his early 20s, his brothers would've been teens, so I can't see any scenario where two or three siblings would've been old enough and earning regular paychecks to go in on an apartment together.

Edited July 28, 2018 by BitterApple

[Sew Sumi]

But none of them have left Gothardism behind. That's what @Nysha meant about leaving. Sure they can move out, and even have big screen TVs like Zach, but the indoctrination runs very, very deep.