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Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

ArctisTor

By ArctisTor
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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

Ugh, I actually came to complain that this was the cheesiest episode of Flash I'd seen in a long time and not at all in a good way.  

Beebo and actually Barry's parts at the prison weren't bad but I was cringing with all the Ralph's stuff not for the old offensive reasons but just for how awful it was.  Also I HATE that it's now a regular thing for people to yell at Caitlin so they can get the person they really want around.  It's such an icky vibe that it's been normalized and made into a joke.  

Mark Hamil's version of the Trickster managed to be equally over the top but also menacing, this guy and his mom (sigh) were just embarrassing to watch. (Hey, you too could go off your meds and turn into a homicidal prankster!) And whatever happened to their original hostages?  There's no mention of them again.  Did they get impatient and melt them and the "heroes" are too busy patting themselves on the back to remember?

And yeah, even though Barr's parts weren't a cringe-fest, Barry in jail is still one of the dumbest storylines ever.  

And it's extra sad that he would rather live in a jail block rather than with Iris.  He even says being in jail is not that different than normal.  Barry likes seeing her once a day and finally after major hints, held his wife's hand but otherwise, he really doesn't seem that bothered by being locked up and away from Iris.  I am not feeling his suffering.  Iris needs to realize that she's now the one way more into their relationship than Barry.

Still find the future daughter cute and well cast.      

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apinknightmare
apinknightmare

I mean, I don't want her in a suit so it's not the "never" in this instance that bothers me, but Marc saying that Felicity specifically would make the notion of superheroics "silly." Why? In this show

Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

And then someone tells him that what he did was okay because of reasons, or that he can't keep feeling guilty, he just has to move forward. Like, no, just...go ahead and feel really guilty for awhile?

SleepDeprived
SleepDeprived

Hey, now... Listen. The practice of proper etiquette during an impromptu wedding officiated by your best friend in a park, right after the funeral of a beloved colleague, is of the utmost importance,

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Mellowyellow

Mellowyellow

21 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

And yeah, even though Barr's parts weren't a cringe-fest, Barry in jail is still one of the dumbest storylines ever.  

And it's extra sad that he would rather live in a jail block rather than with Iris.  He even says being in jail is not that different than normal.  Barry likes seeing her once a day and finally after major hints, held his wife's hand but otherwise, he really doesn't seem that bothered by being locked up and away from Iris.  I am not feeling his suffering.  Iris needs to realize that she's now the one way more into their relationship than Barry.

Still find the future daughter cute and well cast.      

Is it bad? I thought their first date was pretty bad back in the day when they looked dead bored and like they had nothing in common with each other but they have been written better in recent seasons. 

BkWurm1

BkWurm1

4 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Is it bad? I thought their first date was pretty bad back in the day when they looked dead bored and like they had nothing in common with each other but they have been written better in recent seasons. 

It's just that Iris looks so sad but Barry mostly seems fine.  Maybe a bit bored.

Sakura12

Sakura12

The 2nd week ratings are the ones I look at. I actually liked the second episode better than the first, this one kept me interested in the rest of the season. 

I turned on the tv and saw Beebo on the Flash, but didn't care enough to watch the episode to find out why. 

lemotomato

lemotomato

(edited)

Assuming that 0.7, 2 million holds, Flash hit that low 5 episodes before Arrow did in season 4. And there isn't even a long hiatus to blame for it.

Edit: It bugs me so much when I see people claiming that Arrow season 4's ratings "tanked". Season 4A of Arrow was rock steady compared to what's happening on Flash this season:

Capture2.JPG.22bc20262a5361969b2a1038be12c993.JPG

Edited by lemotomato
tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Oscar nominations were announced yesterday morning. Bad news - no noms for Wonder Woman. Good news - the Best Director noms included a female director (Greta Gerwig, Lady Bird). More good news...

'Logan' Breaks Ground with Adapted Screenplay Oscar Nomination
JANUARY 23, 2018 6:47am PT by Aaron Couch
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/logan-oscar-nominations-film-nominated-best-screenplay-1077336

Quote

After decades of comic book stories, Wolverine has reached a height no other superhero has before.

Logan has become the first superhero movie to land an adapted screenplay nomination at the Oscars, with Scott Frank, director James Mangold and Michael Green sharing the honor. (In 2004, The Incredibles scored an original screenplay nomination for Brad Bird.)
*  *  *
"I didn’t really imagine we were going to get a nomination, given several things," Mangold told The Hollywood Reporter by phone Tuesday. "One was that we premiered a year ago. And then you add to that the mix that we are a comic book adaptation, and it dawns on you what a thrill it is to get nominated and to be among the incredible nominees."

Mangold has directed on Oscar films before, such as the 2005 Johnny Cash biopic Walk the Line, but this is the first time he has personally been nominated.
*  *  *
After a particularly strong 2017 for superhero films, fans wondered if Logan or Wonder Woman would break through in awards season. In the end, Wonder Woman was shut out of the Oscars; however, non-superhero but still geeky films fared well. Guillermo del Toro's The Shape of Water led the pack with 13 nominations, including for best picture, best original screenplay (Del Toro and Vanessa Taylor) and best director and acting nominations for Sally Hawkins, Richard Jenkins and Octavia Spencer. Writer-director Jordan Peele's horror hit Get Out earned nominations for best picture, director, original screenplay and best actor (Daniel Kaluuya).

And though it wasn't for a superhero movie, The Dark Knight director Christopher Nolan finally landed a best director nomination with Dunkirk. He's previously been nominated for screenwriting (Memento and Inception) and for producing a best picture nominee (Inception), but the directing nomination had eluded him, much to the frustration of the In Nolan We Trust faithful.

Edited by tv echo
GHScorpiosRule

GHScorpiosRule

I only had three words for Flash's episode last night and I stand by them: "That.Was.Horrible."

My brain can't understand how so many enjoyed it; thought it was very "season one" or entertaining. The only thing that I found touching was Barry vibrating his hand through the glass plate so he and Iris could touch and hold hands.

The upgrade to Dibny's costume was just a mishmash of Plastic Man. Nowhere CLOSE to how Elongated Man's costume really looks.

Starfish35

Starfish35

1 hour ago, lemotomato said:

Assuming that 0.7, 2 million holds, Flash hit that low 5 episodes before Arrow did in season 4. And there isn't even a long hiatus to blame for it.

Edit: It bugs me so much when I see people claiming that Arrow season 4's ratings "tanked". Season 4A of Arrow was rock steady compared to what's happening on Flash this season:

Capture2.JPG.22bc20262a5361969b2a1038be12c993.JPG

Wow, look at the viewer numbers.  Arrow actually increased in viewers slightly, whereas Flash has lost ~750,000 viewers since the beginning of the season.  Ouch.

Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)
2 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I found it FUCKING DEPRESSING. And I LOVE Logan.

I love Logan too, but I refuse to watch that movie.  I know enough about it to know that I would find it super super depressing, and that's just not something I need right now.  It may be a good movie - I can't speak to that.  But it's not for me. :(

Edited by Starfish35
GHScorpiosRule

GHScorpiosRule

1 minute ago, Starfish35 said:

I love Logan too, but I refuse to watch that movie.  I know enough about it to know that I would find it super super depressing, and that's just not something I need right now.  It may be a good movie - I can't speak to that.  But it's not for me. :(

In hindsight, I'm glad I didn't watch it in the theater.  It recently became available on HBO, so I watched it there. Not a movie I can watch again, as much as I love Jackman and Stewart.

Chaser

Chaser

I can appreciate Logan from afar. The acting was stellar. It had fantastic moments. However, I will never watch it again. It was soul sucking depressing.

The Dark Knight should have taken Best Picture that year. Nolan for Best Director.

I don't think Dunkirk is Nolan's best movie but from a directing aspect, I really appreciated what he did.

calliope1975

calliope1975

Hah! I loved Logan and wish it been nommed for Best Picture. It was depressing, but I found it a fitting end for Jackman's Wolverine. My entire theater sat in silence when it ended for several minutes which has never happened to me before. But, to each his own. :)

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wingster55

wingster55

11 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Wow, look at the viewer numbers.  Arrow actually increased in viewers slightly, whereas Flash has lost ~750,000 viewers since the beginning of the season.  Ouch.

It isn't fair to compare the seasons as they were in different years. The main thing is the CW (IIRC) losing affiliates in Chicago, and the Netflix deal. Why wait week to week when the show comes on Netflix just a few days later?

Black Lightning vs This Is Us? Yeesh. 

 

I loved Logan too. Best Marvel movie in 2017 (MCU included). 

Velocity23

Velocity23

1 minute ago, wingster55 said:

It isn't fair to compare the seasons as they were in different years. The main thing is the CW (IIRC) losing affiliates in Chicago, and the Netflix deal. Why wait week to week when the show comes on Netflix just a few days later?

Black Lightning vs This Is Us? Yeesh. 

 

I loved Logan too. Best Marvel movie in 2017 (MCU included). 

Ummm the Netflix deal was in place before Flash even premiered. 

Velocity23

Velocity23

Just now, wingster55 said:

No it wasn't. http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/netflix-cw-streaming-licensing-deal-1201808624/

The first Netflix deal was signed in 2012 and the shows would start airing past season at the start of the new season. It was in place when s2 Arrow premiered. 

http://deadline.com/2011/10/netflix-signs-4-year-licensing-deal-with-the-cw-182444/

What CW did lose was the hulu deal but that is because they demanded all the episodes and Netflix was offering a better deal. 

wingster55

wingster55

1 minute ago, Velocity23 said:

The first Netflix deal was signed in 2012 and the shows would start airing past season at the start of the new season. It was in place when s2 Arrow premiered. 

http://deadline.com/2011/10/netflix-signs-4-year-licensing-deal-with-the-cw-182444/

What CW did lose was the hulu deal but that is because they demanded all the episodes and Netflix was offering a better deal. 

Airing just before the new season is not the same as airing 8 days after a season wraps up. 

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lemotomato

lemotomato

(edited)
34 minutes ago, wingster55 said:

It isn't fair to compare the seasons as they were in different years.

What does different years have to do with @Starfish35 pointing out the fact that there's a  -750,000 viewers difference between Flash 4.01 to 4.11? 

Edited by lemotomato
Cleanqueen

Cleanqueen

I think whats even worse is that The Flash started higher than Arrow so even if lost affiliates like Arrow did then that drop compared to Arrow drop is embarrassing. Currently Flash is 0.7 and Arrow 0.45(avg) and last year this time Flash had 1.1 and arrow had 0.6. Flash has lost 1M viewers and arrow about 600k.

tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

The USC Scripter Awards are awards presented annually by the University of Southern California to honor screenwriters...

'Wonder Woman,’ ‘Lost City of Z,’ ‘Big Little Lies’ Among USC Scripter Finalists
By Kristopher Tapley  JANUARY 16, 2018
http://variety.com/2018/film/awards/usc-scripter-finalists-2018-wonder-woman-big-little-lies-1202665239/

Quote

Finalists have been unveiled for the 30th annual USC Scripter Awards, celebrating adaptations of the written word.

Due to a three-way tie, there were seven nominees on the film side this year.

Chaired by USC professor and past president of the Writers Guild of America, West, Howard Rodman, the 2018 Scripter selection committee* selected the finalists from a field of 91 film and 28 television adaptations.

Nominees for film are:
*  *  *
Screenwriters Scott Frank, Michael Green, and James Mangold, and authors Roy Thomas, Len Wein, and John Romita, Sr., for “Logan”
*  *  *
Screenwriter Allan Heinberg and author William Moulton Marston for “Wonder Woman”
*  *  *
Winners will be revealed at the 30th annual USC Scripter Awards on Saturday, Feb. 10.

Film Nominees - screenwriters for:
Call Me by Your Name
The Disaster Artist
Logan
The Lost City of Z
Molly's Game
Mudbound
Wonder Woman

Edited by tv echo
Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)

Well if you want comparisons, I just ran some quick calculations (using the most recent numbers available).

During this current season, from the premiere to the most recent episode, the viewer gain/loss is:

  • Supergirl +11%
  • Arrow -9%
  • Legends -11%
  • The Flash -27% -25% (updated)
Edited by Starfish35
Updated with final viewer numbers for last night's episode
Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)
4 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Supergirl going up surprised me.

Supergirl has picked up viewers the last couple of episodes.  It's been over 2M viewers.  Before the winter break, the only episode where it was over 2M was the crossover.  Of course it will likely drop back down, especially after its hiatus, but it came back a little stronger.

Edited by Starfish35
GHScorpiosRule

GHScorpiosRule

Just now, Starfish35 said:

Supergirl has picked up viewers the last couple of episodes.  It's been over 2M viewers.  Before the winter break, the only episode where it was over 2M was the crossover.  Of course it will likely drop back down, especially after its hiatus, but it came back better.

I believe there are two more episodes before it goes off hiatus again, to return later in the Spring and end its season in the summer. Who knows who will remember to tune in? Sure the ones who have read about this happening online, but the casual or viewers who aren't online? It's stupid. I don't understand why all shows can't air at the same time.

way2interested

way2interested

12 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

On another note the rest of the cast seem to ship them which is adorable. 

Oh yeah, I love the stories about CB shipping them hard, like sneaking back onto to set just to watch them kiss and to watch their first time. I honestly wondered if Daisy's speech to Simmons in s4 about how they're going to get out of this because she and Fitz belong with each other and she was going to help them back to see each other again was from her or from CB.

catrox14

catrox14

1 hour ago, Starfish35 said:

Well if you want comparisons, I just ran some quick calculations (using the most recent numbers available).

During this current season, from the premiere to the most recent episode, the viewer gain/loss is:

  • Supergirl +11%
  • Arrow -9%
  • Legends -11%
  • The Flash -27% -25% (updated)

It'll be intere

 

56 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Final-Bcast-2018-Jan-23.TUE_.png

Flash stayed at 0.7 but went up in viewers. 

I'm kind of surprised that Black Lightning fell back a bit. It's still a good rating though. It's gonna give The Flash a challenge the rest of the season, and SPN which came in 2nd until Black Lightning showed up. 

TwistedandBored

TwistedandBored

I am not surprised by Flash's low ratings. I hate Ralph and as soon as I saw the promo after last week's episode. I knew I wasn't gonna watch this episode live like I normally do. I am sorry but I can't stand that guy. Any episode that is about him. I skip and it seemed many people from TL did the same too. 

 

I am however sorry about BL decrease in ratings but I hope it picks up again soon. 

quarks

quarks

8 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

The upgrade to Dibny's costume was just a mishmash of Plastic Man. Nowhere CLOSE to how Elongated Man's costume really looks.

And they've kinda given Ralph several personality traits from Plastic Man, too.  I realize the television rights to Plastic Man are still tied up elsewhere, and Elongated Man was never as popular, and it's not like this is the first time they've given a minor comics character much of the personality of a better known comics character (yes, Oliver, we ARE talking about you), but still.

7 hours ago, wingster55 said:

It isn't fair to compare the seasons as they were in different years. The main thing is the CW (IIRC) losing affiliates in Chicago, and the Netflix deal. Why wait week to week when the show comes on Netflix just a few days later?

And yet, I distinctly recall several people comparing season one of Flash to season one of Arrow, which also, if memory serves, were in different years. 

And also comparing episode 301 of Arrow (which aired before the "airing eight days after the finale" Netflix deal) at 1.0/2.83, to episode 301 of Flash (which aired after the Netflix deal) at 1.3/3.17.

Which is to say that at the start of last season, even after the Netflix deal, Flash was outperforming Arrow on a season to season comparison. It is now underperforming Arrow on a season to season comparison - and not that far ahead of other CW shows in terms of viewers. 

This interests me, since of all of the Arrowverse shows, Flash has had the least number of regular cast changes - yes, Team Flash has had a rotating group of various men meandering through Star Labs (Fake Jay in season two, Draco Malfoy in season three, and Ralph the Irritant in season four), and of course Wally is now leaving Flash for Legends of Tomorrow. But otherwise, all of the season one cast members are still there (in major contrast to Arrow, Legends of Tomorrow and Supergirl), the show hasn't really changed its core feeling/purpose (again, in major contrast to Arrow and Legends of Tomorrow and to a lesser extent Supergirl), and has even tried to return to its season one feel. Did audiences perhaps want it to change, the way the other three shows did?

WindofChange

WindofChange

13 minutes ago, quarks said:

And yet, I distinctly recall several people comparing season one of Flash to season one of Arrow, which also, if memory serves, were in different years. 

It's only wrong when the comparison doesn't benefit The Flash.

statsgirl

statsgirl

10 hours ago, lemotomato said:

Assuming that 0.7, 2 million holds, Flash hit that low 5 episodes before Arrow did in season 4. And there isn't even a long hiatus to blame for it.

Edit: It bugs me so much when I see people claiming that Arrow season 4's ratings "tanked". Season 4A of Arrow was rock steady compared to what's happening on Flash this season:

Capture2.JPG.22bc20262a5361969b2a1038be12c993.JPG

A pictture really is worth a thousand words.

6 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Supergirl going up surprised me.

I think the writing is better this season, better use of the characters.

quarks

quarks

Of all of the Arrowverse shows, Flash is the only one that hasn't a) switched networks, b) significantly switched its original cast, and/or c) switched timeslots/evenings. If we are going to say "ooh, it's not fair to compare Flash to other shows because Netflix," then we also kinda have to point out the other three points as well. 

And as long as we're making these comparisons, Flash is now the only one of the CW superhero shows (including Black Lightning) that doesn't have a queer character as a regular cast member (Alex on Supergirl, Curtis on Arrow, Sara on Legends of Tomorrow, and now Anissa on Black Lightning).  It's also the hands down most misogynistic of the five shows - yes, including Arrow's "sure, we have four women as regular cast members this season, but that doesn't mean they should, you know, talk to each other, and while we're on this subject, clearly what the current Black Canary needs is yet another plot focusing on how terrible her taste in men is, like, Arrow, I ask only one thing of Dinah and any future Black Canaries from this point: END THE CONSTANT INVOLVEMENT WITH MEN WHO ARE TERRIBLE FOR THEM." Whoops, I got off subject there.

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