Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[Xander]

22 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

I think because TheCW is not shown in every market like the big 4 are.

I was initially thinking that it shouldn't make a difference because a 1.0 is a 1.0 regardless but I think from a marketing standpoint, 50% of the audience in two cities is preferable to 100% in one and 0% in the other.  So yes, that does make sense. Thanks!

But with that said, according to Wikipedia:

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The CW covers just more than 95 percent of television homes in the United States.

Edited October 2, 2017 by Xander

[Starfish35]

46 minutes ago, Miss Dee said:

With the events happening like they do - Legends and Supergirl characters leaving after the funeral - I think there are honestly no plans by either couple to have a wedding at that point, or they'd ask them to stay. Legends would turn it down, of course, but otherwise I don't see why Kara and Alex wouldn't stay. Unless there's a plot related reason, like Earth-X planning to infiltrate Supergirl's Earth for the midwinter plot arc and they have to hightail it home.

Yeah, this is what I was thinking too. 

[BunsenBurner]

1 hour ago, Primal Slayer said:

Did we watch a different s3? They didn't reverse anything from Flashpoint on The Flash.

 

I was responding to @quarks when she said stated: So I stand by this argument: Flash is an amoral show, one that, greatly unlike its sister shows, seems unaware that the world it presents is monstrous.  It features a superpowered protagonist who can and does change the lives of his friends - many of whom are also his employees - frequently without their input - and generally presents his decisions as either understandable (season one) or the only choice he could make (reversing Flashpoint in season three). 

[BkWurm1]

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The CW covers just more than 95 percent of television homes in the United States.

Do channels still get judged for being UHF vs VHF?  I know they are digital now but would the stigma of being "lesser" channels still matter?

[Trini]

19 hours ago, quarks said:

In the meantime, though, yeah - it is, unfortunately, canon that Iris woke up in time to save H.R., but for whatever reason (plot), didn't - and was grinning over her wedding invitations shortly after his funeral.  Another all too typical Arrowverse example of not thinking how things would appear to the audience. 

I think you've made too many assumptions about the situation and what Iris (or anyone else) could have done about HR.
I guess to some, smiles after a funeral could appear callous; but I doubt it appeared that way to most. In that scene Barry/Iris (and the audience) finally had a moment to breathe and be happy after half a season of seeing Iris murdered. There are always nits to pick, but this isn't an example of a moral failing.

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Hmm - that Big Belly Burger ad might be the closest thing we get to 'Superhero Fight Club' this year.

[way2interested]

4 minutes ago, Trini said:

I think you've made too many assumptions about the situation and what Iris (or anyone else) could have done about HR.
I guess to some, smiles after a funeral could appear callous; but I doubt it appeared that way to most. In that scene Barry/Iris (and the audience) finally had a moment to breathe and be happy after half a season of seeing Iris murdered. There are always nits to pick, but this isn't an example of a moral failing.

I think it might just still be a weird perception thing since s2 also ended in a death and there wasn't any somewhat upbeat moments, so it's like they went counter to what was kind of established. Yeah, HR isn't Barry's dad, but it's still a death (a sacrifice, no less) of someone they knew. It's like how some people were thrown off at the characters making jokes in 420 of Arrow right after Laurel died, since the similar plot structure from s2 (Moira dying in 220) had them not being remotely lighthearted until almost the very last scene a full three episodes later. Except, in Flash's case, this is part of a recurring problem of characters dying without any lasting effects on their deaths. Eddie, Ronnie, Barry's dad, HR, had their deaths and their immediate emotional reactions from them (except Eddie, who only had like a partial one many episodes later), but then their deaths didn't cause emotional changes or reflections. Yeah Arrow has a revolving door of people not really staying dead, but a bunch of them still had lasting emotional and plot effects. Tommy's death pushed Oliver's motivations most of s2, Moira's death brought Oliver to his lowest emotional point in s2, Laurel's death provoked an entire plot in s5, Sara's death set the emotional standard for the beginning of s3, even Oliver's dad's death from the pilot still had recurring emotional effects in the series and coming back in s5 (not to mention even supporting characters carry deaths, like Diggle with his brother, Roy with those cops he killed, Tatsu with her family, etc.). The closest Flash has to that is Barry with his mom.

That's not me saying that Arrow excels at this (Sara's death was kind of forgotten come midseason finale, Ray's fiancee seemed all but forgotten come 315, Havenrock was a blip, etc.), but that Flash's seems more of a continuous error, ergo failing, at least from a perception case. Arrow may have a problem with deaths sticking to the audience, but Flash has a problem with having deaths matter. 

[Trini]

1 hour ago, way2interested said:

Except, in Flash's case, this is part of a recurring problem of characters dying without any lasting effects on their deaths. Eddie, Ronnie, Barry's dad, HR, had their deaths and their immediate emotional reactions from them (except Eddie, who only had like a partial one many episodes later), but then their deaths didn't cause emotional changes or reflections. Yeah Arrow has a revolving door of people not really staying dead, but a bunch of them still had lasting emotional and plot effects.... The closest Flash has to that is Barry with his mom.

I think the problem is having so many deaths on the Flash in the first place. Having plots not revolving around a death should be a feature not a bug. One of the reasons I'm not into Arrow.

[way2interested]

1 minute ago, Trini said:

I think the problem is having so many deaths on the Flash in the first place. Having plots not revolving around a death should be a feature not a bug. One of the reasons I'm not into Arrow.

I'm not saying that plots have to revolve around deaths, but that deaths have to mean something. Whether many deaths or just one, if there's not emotional change or reflection in the characters when it happens, then death does not matter, which I would consider a failing. Barry's mom's death has that emotional weight on the series and most importantly the main character, so I know Flash can do it, it just refuses to do it for present character deaths except for in the heat of when the death happens.

[tennisgurl]

Caught the new X-Men show tonight. Not as creative and strange as Legion, but I liked it. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

I looooove how much Felicity there is in the Big Belly Burger promo for the Arrowverse.

[Velocity23]

Guess they girls  were filming for Supergirl.

[Mellowyellow]

15 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

I looooove how much Felicity there is in the Big Belly Burger promo for the Arrowverse.

That was such an Olicity promo!!!!! I'm thinking most likely it's not a clip for s6 but Oliver showing up at the door was just too cute and made my shippy heart squeeeeeeeee

[bijoux]

14 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Guess they girls  were filming for Supergirl.

Felicity is the only one in pants. Man, if only this was a normal Arrow episode, I'd be starting a pool on the likelihood of a hot make out/sex scene.

[tv echo]

^^^ Note that CP/EBR and DP/MB are walking out of Boorman Archery & Archery Museum in New Westminster, BC.

Supergirl boss teases struggle for humanity in season 3
NATALIE ABRAMS    OCTOBER 2, 2017 
http://ew.com/tv/2017/10/02/supergirl-season-3-spoilers/

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Anything you can tease on the four-way crossover? Will we get to see more of the Supergirl characters involved?
[Andrew Kreisberg:] Yeah, well, it is a true four-way crossover. One of the things that we worked out is a four-hour story, and Kara and Alex are at the center of it through all four hours. One of the things we’ve been doing a lot this season is getting back a little bit to season 1 and really making it Danvers sisters-centric, so a lot of what’s going on this season is Kara and Alex doing things in tandem, and the crossover won’t be any different.

Edited October 3, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Smallville alumni news - I watched Lucifer for the first time last night just to see Tom Welling. The show was okay, but nothing to write home about. I do have to say that I've seen Lauren German (who plays Chloe) in a couple different shows now and I find her kinda off-putting. Her acting has a flat affect and I find her overly groomed eyebrows kinda distracting (not trying to be mean)...

Tom Welling reveals why he chose Lucifer to make his TV return
NATALIE ABRAMS  OCTOBER 2, 2017
http://ew.com/tv/2017/10/02/lucifer-tom-welling-interview-season-3/

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Was that part of the reason that you wanted to come back to TV, doing the complete opposite of Clark Kent?
I definitely didn’t want to play Clark Kent again. The great thing about Clark is he didn’t know who he was and he didn’t know what he was supposed to do with what he had and his abilities. This character very much knows what he’s capable of and knows what he wants to do and knows how to do it. So as much fun as that is to play, it wasn’t necessarily because of Clark that I chose this character. I think it was a number of things, it was the cast, the subject matter, the show, the showrunners, the Greg Beeman recommendation, the location. It was so many more factors than just “I don’t want to play Clark again,” but I’d be lying if I was saying that I’m not enjoying playing something very different for sure.

INTERVIEWING ALLISON MACK & MANU BENNETT AT PARIS MANGA - VALMY'S VLOG #21
Published on Oct 2, 2017, by Sylvain Valmy Jr.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AfD-W-o8I8

-- When fan asked Allison Mack who she thought Chloe should've ended up with - Clark, Davis, Jimmy or Oliver, she replied, "Oliver" because he was the "perfect partner... I wouldn't have wanted anyone other than Justin Hartley." She also shot down the possibility of Chloe showing up on The Flash in a potential Smallville reunion with Tom Welling.

-- When fan asked Manu Bennett about competing with SA on the salmon ladder, he first joked that DR "slaughtered him" on the salmon ladder, but then said that "Steve is really super fit."

Edited October 3, 2017 by tv echo

[Chaser]

I was thinking about this during the wedding discussion. Wether it's Olicity, WestAllen or the Danvers sisters, I don't like the crossover focusing on characters from one show throughout. It assumes people watch all the shows, cares about all the characters.

[tv echo]

I watched the premiere of The Gifted. Overall I liked it and give it a thumbs up. However, I wasn't sure at first because a lot of the premiere reminded me of stuff that I had seen before. Still, the production quality and acting were good, and I think this show has a lot of potential. Warning: some spoilers below...

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At first, it had a Tomorrow People vibe with the group of young mutants. Incidentally, making the leader of the mutant underground a young hunky guy, and the key people of this mutant underground all attractive 20-somethings, seemed like a blatant appeal to the youth demo, but not very realistic. Where were the over-30 mutant leaders? There was a reference to the disappearance of the X-Men and the Brotherhood, which might explain the absence of older leaders. But then I saw that there were older mutants at that mutant underground facility. So why was this one young guy apparently in charge? Was it based on power? I also noted that the female mutant who was captured was like a young Jessica Jones clone.

The scene where the teen son first exhibits his mutant powers while under emotional stress was very much like the beginning of the first X-Men movie - even with similar, metal-bending powers (though, I guess, these were more like sound wave blow-out powers). No surprise, I guess, since Bryan Singer also directed the Gifted premiere.

The Strucker family with their two teen children was like the Incredibles in that the daughter could create a protective bubble wall with her mind.  Both actors playing the teens were fine, although the teen daughter has the potential to become annoying if not written right.

The show managed to keep my attention and make want to watch more.  I think Stephen Moyer and Amy Acker, as the Strucker parents, elevated the show because their acting was better than that of the rest of the cast. The actors playing the mutant underground leaders were the weak acting links. Although Amy Acker still seems too young to be the mother of high school teenagers (even though she's 40 in real life), she and Stephen Moyer (47 in real life) were believable as a couple. Finally, the CGI effects were decent and the realistic setting worked.

The premiere ended on a cliffhanger and preview that made me want to come back next week.

Edited October 3, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

[tv echo]

[Sakura12]

I enjoyed The Gifted, was it groundbreaking television, No. But for a pilot they managed to introduce the characters and the world without making it boring like most pilots.

As for Lucifer, Chloe is still my least favorite character. She's gotten slightly better where I tolerate her. Welling's character so far seems like they typical a-hole new boss. However Lucifer usually changes it up and makes it interesting. I will wait and see what they do with him. Plus I don't think TW would come back to tv for such a generic role. 

Edited October 3, 2017 by Sakura12

[Velocity23]

Gifted premiered to a 1.5 and 4.8 mil  viewers

 

http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/articles/the-sked-monday-network-scorecard-10-2-2017.html

[JJ928]

I have a question, since it seems there are quite a few Smallville fans here. I love Lucifer, and I never watched Smallville (I can't stand any Supes), so I had no expectations or excitement when it came to Tom Welling. Last night was the first time I saw him in anything, and I found him so awkward. I cringed at his acting, so my question is: is he just a bad actor or will he improve with time? Because I was not enjoying his scenes, and found myself wishing I could ff.

[Starfish35]

3 hours ago, tv echo said:

I do have to say that I've seen Lauren German (who plays Chloe) in a couple different shows now and I find her kinda off-putting. Her acting has a flat affect and I find her overly groomed eyebrows kinda distracting (not trying to be mean)...

I know I was not at all impressed with her the season she was on Hawaii Five-0, but I never was sure whether it was her or that role. :(

[Sakura12]

15 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

I know I was not at all impressed with her the season she was on Hawaii Five-0, but I never was sure whether it was her or that role. :(

Its her. Every show I've seen her in she was the always the weakest acting wise. Lucifer has so many other great characters that I just accept her being there. 

She's supposed to be shipped with Lucifer but I don't think it's that big of a ship. When they had their ship block of Luci marrying a stripper named Candy, most people liked her better. Especially when it turned out her airhead baby talk was just an act. She was helping him because he helped her. 

[Featherhat]

7 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Its her. Every show I've seen her in she was the always the weakest acting wise. Lucifer has so many other great characters that I just accept her being there. 

She's supposed to be shipped with Lucifer but I don't think it's that big of a ship. When they had their ship block of Luci marrying a stripper named Candy, most people liked her better. Especially when it turned out her airhead baby talk was just an act. She was helping him because he helped her. 

Yeah, I really don't like Chloe/Lucifer as a ship, I don't think they sell the huge attraction and I just don't see how it can work with the set up they've created. I like them as opposite partners, but I do find LG the weak link in an otherwise stellar cast. I think her best role recently was probably as Shay on Chicago Fire. The show is really, really good at pairing up different characters and having them knock it out of the park, they also gave Dan (Sebastian Blood for Arrow fans) a character rehab last season and I went from assuming he'd thankfully die in the S1 finale to being one of my favourite characters. It's a lot like LOT in the way it did both those things. 

I loved Candy Morningstar and twigged she was just playing airheaded early on but Lindsey Gort was great in the part. 

Re: Tom Welling, I think he is a limited actor, which worked ok for Clark Kent and I wasn't loving him in this role, but it is supposed to get more interesting, if not better acted. The scenes with him did feel awkward and like they were part of a different episode, I even wondered if it was a reworked version of last season's "left over" episodes even though I knew it wasn't supposed to be. I'm not looking forward to any love triangle shenanigans they might try and pull with him, Chloe and Lucifer, I don't think TW will sell it and as I said above I don't really like Chloe/Lucifer as a romantic paring anyway. 

Edited October 3, 2017 by Featherhat

[insomniadreams88]

I found Tom Welling's character's introduction scene in last night's Lucifer somewhat off-putting and that affected how I viewed him for the rest of the episode. It seemed less like "this character is this rockstar we're pushing him as" and more like "look! We got Tom Welling! It's Tom Welling!" though that could also be because they've kind of been making it a big deal that this is his return to TV. 

As for Chloe/Lucifer, I feel like it's sort of becoming "they're the couple we planned from the beginning and now we're sort of dragging it out and even we don't particularly seem to care about them together anymore." I find their relationships with pretty much every other character more interesting though I don't not ship them. 

[JJ928]

I don't mind Chloe/Lucifer but they're not OTP status for me. I think Lauren works best w/certain people, some actors can just get more out of her, if that makes sense. I really like when Maze & Chloe share scenes, but Maze seems to work well with everyone. I think Chloe is also suffering from the 'keep the love interest in the dark' trope. Hopefully when she learns the truth it'll allow her to branch out more. I hope Tom is the kind of actor that needs time to grow into a role, and not one that just sucks, because last night was painful & it sounds like he's gonna be very involved.

[LeighAn]

1 hour ago, JJ928 said:

I have a question, since it seems there are quite a few Smallville fans here. I love Lucifer, and I never watched Smallville (I can't stand any Supes), so I had no expectations or excitement when it came to Tom Welling. Last night was the first time I saw him in anything, and I found him so awkward. I cringed at his acting, so my question is: is he just a bad actor or will he improve with time? Because I was not enjoying his scenes, and found myself wishing I could ff.

As someone who watched Smallville and brought the DVDs and everything haha... Tom Welling is pretty to look at but amazing actor he is not. He wasn't offensive in his role as Clark Kent but the role didn't require a lot of range or anything complicated from him.

 

So I imagine in a role where he's working with stronger actors in a role that stretches him his some what wooden acting would stand out. Having said that I don't watch Lucifer. 

 

Pretty much most of the Smallville actors were likeable but average actors with the exception of maybe Michael Rosebaum and John Glover who were probably the strongest actors but even they could get a little hammy at times. 

Edited October 3, 2017 by LeighAn

[Sakura12]

Welling was as awkward as he was playing Clark in this new role. Not sure how it's going to work with a triangle with him and LG. Chloe is the least interesting character on the show. I agree she is slightly better in her scenes with Maze. Making them roommates was a good move. Plus I love Maze and Trixie. 

[Velocity23]

Legends of Tomorrow boss teases big changes ahead in season 3

http://ew.com/tv/2017/10/03/legends-tomorrow-season-3-preview-spoilers/

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You’re doing another group of villains this year. Did Damien Darhk take note from the Legion of Doom in creating this new cabal?
I wouldn’t say that. I would say that he’s definitely learned from all of his mistakes, because this is a Damien that is not only post-Legends season 2, it’s also a Damien that’s post-Arrow season 4.

Why does he decide to create this group? What is he after?
Oh. I can’t. Come on. That’s the season. That would be like if a year ago I said, “Oh, the Legion of Doom want to get the Spear of Destiny so they can rewrite reality.”

Fair, but he came in with pretty grandiose plan when he was on Arrow. He literally wanted to destroy the world.
Yes, but I didn’t tell you that for a while.

Does he have similar motivations?
Suffice it to say, he has a very specific plan and a very specific agenda, and part of the fun of the season, of course, is our slow reveal of what that is.

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What can you tell us about Zari and her journey this season?
When we meet Zari, her brother will have been killed and the rest of her family is presumed missing. However, when she joins the Legends, she is surprised to learn that their rules prevent her from using time travel to save her brother. A computer hacker by training, Zari then sets out to see if she can find a loophole to these rules and, essentially, hack time.

What’s in store for Sara this season?
Sara’s really come into her own, and in many ways I think Sara probably best dramatizes the overall arc that the Legends have gone on, which is she’s found her place as the captain of the Wave Rider, so unlike last season where it was a little bit of a learning curve, she’s happy to be the captain. At the same time, it was really fundamentally her idea and her decision to violate the prime directive of the show and have the Legends travel back to a time that they had already participated in, thereby breaking time. So one of the things that hangs over the whole year, not as a pall, but just as another layer to Sara’s already complicated character, is the fact that she has some measure of responsibility for all the anachronisms that they are dealing with.

What will we see for Ray?
We feel like Ray functions best when he’s the beacon of light of the show. We’ve done dark stuff with Ray before — we did it on Arrow, done it occasionally on Legends, particularly in season 1. Ray’s a lot like the show itself, which is you can occasionally go a little dark, but the show really lives in the light and it lives in the fun. The thing about Ray is that he really does find the bright side in everything and I think that’s why he’s so lovable.

What about for Stein?
We’re really continuing Stein’s story this year from last year, which is last year he discovered he had a daughter and this year he’s really feeling the tension of what does it mean to be away from his family on this time ship? It’s something we actually talked about in the very first episode when Stein decided to leave and go aboard the Wave Rider with Rip. I describe Stein’s storyline this year as something we’ve always flirted with and made little nods to here and there, but never truly, truly dealt with, and never really dramatized in a significant way. We’re doing that this year given the fact that he now has this daughter, and how that is a pull back for him to 2017.

It’s very hard to talk about Stein without talking about Jackson, vice versa, because they are tied together. So one of the things that’s really interesting to us is they’re like Siamese twins, and what happens when one wants to go left and the other wants to go right? And if you watch the trailer, you’ll see that Ray and Jax are paired up as Siamese twins in P.T. Barnum’s circus. That’s not random. That’s part of Jax coming to realize that, wow, this decision to be time-traveling superheroes, it’s not just the decision that Jax is making for himself, it’s a decision he’s making for Stein.

What about for Amaya?
Clearly the elephant in the room, no pun intended, with Amaya is this destiny that she learned about at the end of season 2. We really didn’t have the screen time to tell the story of what does it mean to discover that you’ve got this destiny and if you don’t fulfill this destiny that your village will be lost and the world will be short one superhero? So we’re really exploring that this year in a fun way, and we’re certainly exploring it from the vantage point of how does that affect her relationship with Nate?

Speaking of, what’s next for Nate?
Nate’s just a blast. This year really sees Nate embracing the superhero side of his life. Last year, he functioned very much as the historian, he was always providing the historical exposition, and there’s certainly an element of that in his character this year, but we’re really leaning into the Citizen Steel superhero side of him. We are also having a lot of run with his relationship with Ray. There’s this budding bromance that’s a lot of fun to play between those two guys.

And lastly, what’s coming for Mick?
Mick’s a lot of fun to write this year because of the story we told with him last year. Last year, by the end of the season, we pretty much had him come to terms with the fact that he thinks they’re lame, he thinks being a hero is lame, but gosh darn it, these people are his team and they’re his crew and he’s going to back them up. So what I think is a lot of fun about Rory is he’s sort of the most unadulterated version of Rory that we’ve seen on the show thus far, because he’s not conflicted by any questions of loyalty. He’s still Mick, and he’s still a criminal, and he’s still all the things you love about him, but we’re not playing this — like we said in the season premiere last year — “What am I doing on the show?” He knows the answer to that question. He may not be happy with the answer, but he’s at least moved on from it. It takes a character who’s already, I think, one of the funniest aspects of the show and makes him even funnier.

[Velocity23]

The Flash boss teases lighter season 4

http://ew.com/tv/2017/10/03/flash-season-4-premiere-spoilers/

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ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: What’s Barry’s mindset when we pick back up with him?
ANDREW KREISBERG: Barry is not exactly the same as when we last saw him, and he’s going to go on a bit of a journey in the premiere episode. But the most important thing about Barry this year is that the experience of being in the Speed Force was a bit of a baptism for him. The premiere episode is called “The Flash Reborn” and Barry, in a way, has been born again. His experience in there has really washed away a lot of his sins, cleansed him of his doubts, fears, and his guilts, and he really loves being The Flash again. It really is leaving him free and clear to have an open road and a fresh start, and he’s just not upset the way he’s been these past two seasons.

It’s not in the titles, but every one of these shows — whether it’s Supergirl or Arrow or Flash — it really is like Begins; it’s really Arrow Begins, and Flash Begins, and Supergirl Begins. Now it’s season 4 and he’s really become The Flash in the comic books, the one who really is in full mastery of his skills and has the emotional maturity that he has in the comics.

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How has the team been operating without him? And how will the team feel upon his return since Iris has taken charge?
Well, it’s a lot of fun in episode two. Barry and Iris keep comically clashing inadvertently because she’s used to being in charge, and he’s used to being in charge, and so they wind up going to couples therapy to work through it. The two of them with the therapist is some of the funniest stuff we have ever done on this show, but it also leads to a deepening of their relationship.

Grant is so funny this season. We’ve been having him do the funniest things, and Candice is really — making her the team leader, which unfortunately didn’t occur to us until this season, has really given her the agency on the show that she hasn’t always had. She’s always been smart, and funny, and proud, and brave, and eager, but she didn’t always have the authority that she has this season. It’s really nice to see her making decisions, and telling people where to go, and what to do, and Candice has really risen to the challenge, as we knew that she would.

Will there be trust issues between Barry and Iris upon his return since he didn’t really discuss sacrificing himself with his fiancée?
He is so happy to be back, and so happy to be The Flash, and so happy to be with her. There are some things that she experienced in the last six months, because from his perspective, he went into the Speed Force and then he was out, so for him no time has passed at all, but she had to spend six months living without him, and as she says, living with having to explain that he disappeared, it’s been a hard six months for her. So obviously she’s happy he’s back, but they do have some things to talk about.

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Other than not being a speedster, what makes The Thinker a different villain than what we’ve seen on the show before? Can you talk about his motivations?
It’s been interesting because none of us are geniuses, so it’s been interesting putting all of our writer brains together to come up with something that is worthy of somebody who is supposed to be the world’s fastest mind. Last season, by the back half of the season, we really zeroed in on Savitar and his motivations and whatnot, but I think early on in the season, it wasn’t as clear to us, and I think that showed on screen. This season, we worked really, really hard to really understand what the Thinker wants, and why he’s doing it, and how he’s going about it. As you’re watching these first episodes you really see that there’s a chess match going on. In the beginning, our guys don’t even realize that they’re playing against him, but then you watch as they’re realizing that somebody is manipulating events and pulling the strings, watching them move and countermove in episodes as it’s all building to a big confrontation.

What can you tease about Breacher’s arrival and what kind of dynamic he has with both Cisco and his daughter, Gypsy?
Well, we just thought it would be a great episode. Gypsy and Jessica [Camacho], they’re so tough and so strong. We’re like, “Obviously she came from somebody strong,” and we just thought it would be a hilarious idea for Cisco, who’s managed to melt Gypsy’s heart, being unable to do the same with her father. We were in the room and we were like, “Who could we get?” and someone said Danny Trejo and we all started laughing like, “He’d be great, but of course Danny Trejo’s not going to do this.” But as I’ve discovered over these past few years, if you don’t ask, you don’t get it. So we reached out to him and his people, and it turned out he was a fan, and he was eager to do it, and he loved the character. I feel like we wrote him a great script. His character and his storyline with Cisco and Gypsy, it’s part of this slight redirection of the series this year — it’s just doing much more fun stories and much more just out and out hilarious things to match Barry’s newfound optimism and lightness.

What is Caitlin’s journey this year and how much has she changed since the end of last season?
I don’t want to give too much away, just because how Caitlin reintegrates with the team is part of the fun of the first episode. All I’ll say is that for the people that love Caitlin, they’re going to be really happy, and for the people who love Killer Frost, they’re really going to be happy, too.

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What can you tell us about Wells this year? Are we seeing another one, or are we just picking up with Harry, who was sticking around at the end of last season?
We’re picking up with Harry. We felt like we managed to pull off three different Wells in three years, and rather than just going and doing another Wells, we definitely felt there was more meat on the bone with Harry. Harry is a genius, and his daughter is safe, and she’s The Flash on Earth-3, and he’s one of those people who’s realizing that he doesn’t have a life. So season 4 for Harry is really realizing what he’s missing in his life and what it is he needs to become a better, more complete person. So he’s going to be going on a fairly epic emotional journey this season that is tied to The Thinker’s plan, and we’re really excited about it. It’s probably something a little bit more emotional than we’ve ever done for that character, but Tom is such a phenomenal actor, we know he’ll knock it out of the park. I’ll also say that Harry won’t be the only Wells we’ll see this season.

What themes are you’re exploring this season? Are you inspired by any certain comic book storyline, because a lot of people assumed you guys would be doing Rebirth?
Yeah, we’re not doing Rebirth based on that title. We were actually going to call it Rebirth, and then realized everybody was going to think we were doing Rebirth, which is why we changed it to “The Flash Reborn.” These first three years were really about growing up and now they’re all adults, which is both good and bad. They’ve all become pretty expert at what they do and they’re not as wide-eyed about everything that’s happening to them. For Barry and Iris, they are finally going to get married this season and then it’s going to be: Can they stay married with everything that’s coming up against them?

[statsgirl]

I agree that Tom Welling wasn't great in the episode, especially compared to Eddie Cibrian on Rosewood who came on in essentially the same role, the new hard-ass, antagonistic police captain. Right now I think Welling's character is going to end up as the new villain, Mr. Sinner.

2 hours ago, Featherhat said:

Yeah, I really don't like Chloe/Lucifer as a ship, I don't think they sell the huge attraction and I just don't see how it can work with the set up they've created. I like them as opposite partners, but I do find LG the weak link in an otherwise stellar cast. I think her best role recently was probably as Shay on Chicago Fire. The show is really, really good at pairing up different characters and having them knock it out of the park, they also gave Dan (Sebastian Blood for Arrow fans) a character rehab last season and I went from assuming he'd thankfully die in the S1 finale to being one of my favourite characters. It's a lot like LOT in the way it did both those things.

I think definitely German is the weak link in the cast so I'm really glad they're not pushing her as the love interest any more.  I agree that she was better in Chicago Fire but a) it was a smaller role and b) she wasn't a big love interest for the star.

Having Maze move in with her was brilliant because they play off each other very well.  I also like it when the psychiatrist joins in.

59 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

What will we see for Ray?
We feel like Ray functions best when he’s the beacon of light of the show. We’ve done dark stuff with Ray before — we did it on Arrow, done it occasionally on Legends, particularly in season 1. Ray’s a lot like the show itself, which is you can occasionally go a little dark, but the show really lives in the light and it lives in the fun. The thing about Ray is that he really does find the bright side in everything and I think that’s why he’s so lovable.

Good. The show has the potential to go really dark so they need a light.  I love Mick's sarcasm but he doesn't function well as the light.

Ugh to more Nate as Citizen Steel. He really the show's Gary Stu.

Edited October 3, 2017 by statsgirl

[tofutan]

I always found the career trajectories of the Smallville cast pretty fascinating. I still remember how much TWOP trashed Kristin Kreuk but though she isn't gonna win any awards, she has had pretty steady work after Smallville (longer role on Chuck, then lead in Beauty and the Beast). 

[BkWurm1]

5 hours ago, tv echo said:

Who am I supposed to be looking at?

3 hours ago, JJ928 said:

I have a question, since it seems there are quite a few Smallville fans here. I love Lucifer, and I never watched Smallville (I can't stand any Supes), so I had no expectations or excitement when it came to Tom Welling. Last night was the first time I saw him in anything, and I found him so awkward. I cringed at his acting, so my question is: is he just a bad actor or will he improve with time? Because I was not enjoying his scenes, and found myself wishing I could ff.

Tom Welling is as good as the actors around him or if he's really comfortable so he'll be better when paired with the better actors and better when he relaxes more AND he could pull out an excellent bad boy when allowed so if his is the bad guy, that should be fun.  

Edited October 3, 2017 by BkWurm1

[way2interested]

1 minute ago, BkWurm1 said:

Who am I supposed to be looking at?

Red dress, she's playing Zari.

[BkWurm1]

13 minutes ago, tofutan said:

I always found the career trajectories of the Smallville cast pretty fascinating. I still remember how much TWOP trashed Kristin Kreuk but though she isn't gonna win any awards, she has had pretty steady work after Smallville (longer role on Chuck, then lead in Beauty and the Beast). 

MR has been too busy distancing himself from Lex so his roles have been all comedic ( imPastor has been good).  

TW for a while was concentrating on behind the scenes stuff.  Allison Mack was doing a bunch of plays and experimental stuff (and getting bad advice IMO from some guru type) and only in recent years seems have even tried to get back into acting on film.  She's still one of the most expressive actors I've seen but if the show gets cancelled it's hard to make your mark. KK left Smallville for that disaster of a movie but then returned to the netlet that let her be a big fish in a small pond while I think the others are still trying to shake off the WB/CW label.   

[Featherhat]

42 minutes ago, tofutan said:

I always found the career trajectories of the Smallville cast pretty fascinating. I still remember how much TWOP trashed Kristin Kreuk but though she isn't gonna win any awards, she has had pretty steady work after Smallville (longer role on Chuck, then lead in Beauty and the Beast). 

Yes she seems to have had a fair amount of steady work since leaving SV although, she did end up back at the same network so that's not entirely surprising. Erica Durance had 5 years of Saving Hope and now is recurring on Supergirl. Doesn't/didn't Alison Mack get really involved with a cult like group that might have had something to do with how much she's been doing after SV, at least on screen. 

 

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Good. The show has the potential to go really dark so they need a light.  I love Mick's sarcasm but he doesn't function well as the light.

Ugh to more Nate as Citizen Steel. He really the show's Gary Stu.

Yeah they seemed to figure out how to use Ray well last season, especially without a romance, though that will probably be changing. There have also been hints that Ray deliberately puts on a light front in bad situations as a coping mechanism. Meh on Nate. I really didn't like how he got insta superpowers 3 episodes in last season and instantly became dismissive of academia and "nerds". Dude that is why you ended up on the Waverider in the first place. 

Edited October 3, 2017 by Featherhat
Or what BKWurm1 said about Smallville actors

[Miss Dee]

See, Nate and Ray as the Bill and Ted of time travel aren't even half as fascinating as Ray and Mick's odd-couple, yin/yang, light-and-dark dynamic. I'm not saying don't pair up the bros - they're good for a laugh and I even like their more serious discussions - but Ray/Mick are just ten times more interesting when they're playing off and reacting to each other than paired with just about anyone else.

I wouldn't mind seeing more of Mick and Jax too, actually.

ETA: Actually, I could accept the Bill and Ted of time travel if a certain bald and badass criminal made them a trio as the surliest Rufus you ever saw....

Edited October 4, 2017 by Miss Dee
Spelling

[Mellowyellow]

Did Mick call Felicity anything in the Crossover or did they not speak?

Did he call Oliver anything?

Edited October 4, 2017 by Mellowyellow

[bijoux]

I don't know about Felicity, but Oliver was Robin Hood. At 1:12.

[Mellowyellow]

@bijoux

Thank you so much!!!! You rock! 

[way2interested]

41 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Did Mick call Felicity anything in the Crossover or did they not speak?

He called her "Ponytail"

And she asked him what it was like being mind controlled at the end of the Flash episode.

[bijoux]

Last year's crossover wasn't my favorite, but there were good moments. Like Cisco's, I gotcha, girl.

[Mellowyellow]

@way2interested thank you so much!!! You guys are the bestest!!!! *huggles*

[Miss Dee]

Somewhere we need to keep a list of Mick's Micknames. He's Micknamed a lot of the Arrowverse cast by now. It'd be good for research purposes.

[BkWurm1]

Ponytail is so much better than blondie.

[Starfish35]

2 hours ago, Miss Dee said:

Somewhere we need to keep a list of Mick's Micknames. He's Micknamed a lot of the Arrowverse cast by now. It'd be good for research purposes.

Well, let's see:

Haircut = Ray

Ponytail = Felicity

Robin Hood = Oliver

....feel free to add on. :)

[tv echo]

Ask Ausiello: Spoilers on This Is Us, Flash, New Girl, Arrow, Grey's Anatomy, The Blacklist, Supernatural and More
By Michael Ausiello / October 3 2017, 10:29 AM PDT
http://tvline.com/2017/10/03/sandra-oh-greys-anatomy-season-14-cristina-returning/

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Question: How will The Flash’s Barry react to Iris being the team leader at S.T.A.R. Labs? — Malasha
Ausiello: “I think he loves” that Iris is now leading the charge, showrunner Todd Helbing says. But upon his return from the Speed Force, “it’s a new dynamic that he’s walking into, so there’s a big learning curve. It’s not just Cisco and Wells behind the command station, it’s the woman he loves. It’s going to take a bit of time for him to get used to that.”
*  *  *
Question: I’m returning to Arrow after a year break, thanks to the Katie Cassidy news. Do you have any Black Siren scoop to tie me over until October? —Helen
Ausiello: During an in-depth Q&A with Matt Mitovich, Stephen Amell indicated that of Team Arrow, “Oliver, ironically — and despite the fact that she allied herself with Adrian Chase — is the most hopeful one” when it comes to Black Siren perhaps one day being redeemed. “He’s like, ‘If theres a bit of Laurel in there, I want to find it.'” The feeling however is not at all mutual. As Amell puts it, stone-cold Black Siren feels “nothing” when she looks at the other Laurel Lance’s loved ones, Ollie included.
*  *  *
Question: Have anything yet on my brand-new obsession, The Gifted? —J.
Ausiello: Coming out of last night’s angsty cliffhanger, Episode 2 is “super-continuous, and super-intense,” show boss Matt Nix tells us. “If you liked the pace an scale of the pilot, we do not let up in the second episode.” While the heroes who did escape the Sentinels deal with detours (“We’ve seen Blink’s portals working great, but what if they don’t? Really interesting things happen,” Nix teases), Reed endeavors to reunite with his family — though, Stephen Moyer says, “there are going to be many things along the way that stop him from being able to do that in the way that he had hoped.”

Edited October 4, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

THE ATOM CONFIRMED FOR INJUSTICE 2
GlyphMasterson  4 OCTOBER, 2017
https://mmoexaminer.com/atom-confirmed-injustice-2/ 

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Now, to be clear, there have been a few to put on The Atom name (and suit), the one coming to Injustice 2 is Ryan Choi, the second to wear the mantle. It honestly would’ve been believable that Ray Palmer could’ve come to the game, given his prominence in the DC/CW universe (as he was on Arrow and now is a key member of the Legends of Tomorrow), but Ryan Choi is more than up to the task of taking on the roster.
*  *  *
In DC Comics, Ryan Choi was a prodigy at the college that Dr. Ray Palmer taught at (or at least, in the current continuity that’s the case), and after Palmer went “missing”, Choi became the Atom. In the current comics, Choi is actually a part of the Justice League of America, and he’s been featured in cartoons as well, mainly Batman: The Brave and The Bold.

In Injustice 2, he uses his size manipulation ability to the fullest, both shrinking down to dodge and get in peoples faces, to growing large and utterly smashing them. It just goes to show that the team at NetherRealm know how to make every character unique.

Edited October 4, 2017 by tv echo

[Chaser]

Barry loves it so much they need to share it with a therapist. It also sounds like they are going for an Olicity dynamic in the labs in WestAllen.