Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[Trini]

I'm not pressed about which couple gets married, but I'm excited for the casts gathering for a (possible) wedding!

Besides that, I hope they can actually write the episodes as a movie; that would awesome.

[Sakura12]

Most martial artists are not super muscular they have to be thinner to move around the way they do. Caity does have more muscle tone then most female action stars. She almost didn't get the part of Sara because she didn't look like the typical model thin the CW usually hires. CL has no problem bulking up like she did for her movie the machine. But as you said she'd probably be out of a job because she definitely wouldn't fit the CW image.

 

[ComicFan777]

For me, fighters don't need to be super-muscular to be convincing - instead, I think coordination and speed is important.  From my experience, as long as you know how to hit and where to hit and with good speed, you can take down an opponent twice your size.

[wonderwall]

Can y'all talk whether CL is muscular enough to the LoT board? 

[Autistic Queer]

1 minute ago, Sakura12 said:

Most martial artists are not super muscular they have to be thinner to move around the way they do. Caity does have more muscle tone then most female action stars. She almost didn't get the part of Sara because she didn't look like the typical model thin the CW usually hires. CL has no problem bulking up like she did for her movie the machine. But as you said she'd probably be out of a job because she definitely wouldn't fit the CW image.

 

Damn. Now her I would believe kicking the crap out of anybody, and her hair is tied back *swoons*

[Miss Dee]

@tv echo and @Velocity23, thank you both for the links and posts; I appreciate your searching that stuff out so we don't have to!

@Sakura12, I don't know who that is in the picture you posted, but I'm printing that out and hanging it in front of my weight bench for inspiration!

I'm always nervous when there's a bunch of LoT spoilers and Mick isn't mentioned. I'd like to think he has some role in all the Ray stories, but I will put up real money that the bulk of the interaction in those will be with the new arrival.

[Sakura12]

4 minutes ago, Miss Dee said:

 

@Sakura12, I don't know who that is in the picture you posted, but I'm printing that out and hanging it in front of my weight bench for inspiration!

That's Caity Lotz in the Machine.

[Miss Dee]

Holy shit, I'd never have guessed!

[AveMaria30]

[ruby24]

Oh, man. That comment pushes me once more in the direction of "double wedding."

See, I just think that sounds so cheesy! I can handle one wedding being the event that draws everyone together, etc. but to have two couples getting married at the same time just seems dumb. And that sort of does take the focus away from either one of them as its own thing.

[RedVitC]

I'm trying to think of different life events, but for some reason I can't think of a lot of different ones: Weddings/getting engaged, birth (no one is pregnant that we know of right?), Job changes, secret identity reveal, moving (to another earth?)

[Velocity23]

I just dont think any couple will get married during the crossover. 

[ruby24]

Big "life events" usually are weddings, births and deaths. It's supposed to be "happy," so that rules out death, and no one is pregnant, so a birth isn't happening. Engagement could be a life event I guess. I don't know what else would count to be special enough as a crossover event.

[Starfish35]

Yeah I think I'm going to place my $0.02 bet on "double wedding". Lol.

Back when the new Legends character Zari was announced, we discussed the issues of  having a Muslim character go by the superhero name of Isis.  Some people guessed that they might not use the Isis name - looks like you all were right.  Thanks to @Proteus who posted this link in  the Legends forum.

Quote

Zari is inspired by the DC Comics character Isis; Guggenheim pointed out the very clear reason why they didn’t use that moniker. “It’s pretty simple: You might’ve heard there’s this terrorist organization called ISIS,” he said. “They’re kind of ruining things out there in the world. We just didn’t want the baggage quite frankly, especially given the fact that we are doing a Muslim superhero, it was just like opening up a can of worms. It’s just not worth it.”

http://ew.com/tv/2017/08/02/legends-of-tomorrow-muslim-superhero/amp/

Edited August 2, 2017 by Starfish35

[Morrigan2575]

4 minutes ago, RedVitC said:

I'm trying to think of different life events, but for some reason I can't think of a lot of different ones: Weddings/getting engaged, birth (no one is pregnant that we know of right?), Job changes, secret identity reveal, moving (to another earth?)

Engagement, Wedding, getting pregnant/announcement, death and with this group rebirth.

[LeighAn]

Or-

 

Big life events are Big life events. Greg seems to think there's more life events then a wedding and since he's the one approving the storylines and all........

[ruby24]

Yeah, but another big life event involving romance?

[LeighAn]

A break up is a big life event that involves romance.

[Morrigan2575]

2 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

A break up is a big life event that involves romance.

Excellent point. ??

[Xander]

2 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

A break up is a big life event that involves romance.

LOL. I don't think they are teasing a break up.

I really don't want a wedding but I think it's time I make peace with the big possibility that there will be one. That doesn't mean that the ceremony will go through without a hitch. 

[ruby24]

A break-up is not a happy event that would make fans go crazy though.

[LeighAn]

Maybe the couple who are getting married break up. Happy event leads to a break up. 

[Velocity23]

Well he did say big events ... he didnt exactly mention that they will be happy. 

[lemotomato]

I dunno... Iris leaving Barry at the altar would make me happy. 

Karma's a bitch, Barry! Don't meddle in other people's relationships next time.

[RedVitC]

It was Melissa that mentioned two big events that will make people happy (at least implied), if both of those are romance related definitely happy. Like I said, I'm not at all against a double wedding, but I'm not sure how the info we got today necessarily implies a double wedding. I do think 'romance in the air' as a tease implies romance for more than just one couple. So maybe the main ship for each show. Not sure which that would be on legends, Nate/Amaya?

Watch it be an entirely different couple after all this speculation ?

Edited August 2, 2017 by RedVitC

[Chaser]

5 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

I dunno... Iris leaving Barry at the altar would make me happy. 

Karma's a bitch, Barry! Don't meddle in other people's relationships next time.

In the background you just see Dyla/Olicity smirking. 

[LeighAn]

7 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

I dunno... Iris leaving Barry at the altar would make me happy. 

Karma's a bitch, Barry! Don't meddle in other people's relationships next time.

[Morrigan2575]

38 minutes ago, RedVitC said:

It was Melissa that mentioned two big events that will make people happy (at least implied), if both of those are romance related definitely happy. Like I said, I'm not at all against a double wedding, but I'm not sure how the info we got today necessarily implies a double wedding. I do think 'romance in the air' as a tease implies romance for more than just one couple. So maybe the main ship for each show. Not sure which that would be on legends, Nate/Amaya?

Watch it be an entirely different couple after all this speculation ?

She might not even be talking about weddings or relationships.  Maybe one of them is Superman showing up in the crossover? Pretty sure that would would make fans happy. 

[statsgirl]

4 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Neither Dynasty nor Valor seem like there are going to be the hits he wants.  

I saw the trailers for both and let's just say I'm not going anywhere near either show.

Pedowitz would have done better to write better female characters on existing shows like The Flash and Supergirl instead of trying to the soap opera route.

3 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

IIRC, The Mighty Isis is her code name in the Comics. Not sure if that will happen on the show 

Lots of countries call them Dayesh but with ISIS being the most common name in the US, it was a good move to change it.

2 hours ago, ComicFan777 said:

For me, fighters don't need to be super-muscular to be convincing - instead, I think coordination and speed is important.  From my experience, as long as you know how to hit and where to hit and with good speed, you can take down an opponent twice your size.

There are martial arts for smaller, non-supermuscular people and I'd rather see that done by female actors than the hitting, strength-based stuff. 

That said, actresses are expected to be too thin.  SMG's stunt double on Buffy said that if she weighed as little as SMG, she never would be able to do the stunts.

[DrSpaceman10]

57 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

I dunno... Iris leaving Barry at the altar would make me happy. 

Karma's a bitch, Barry! Don't meddle in other people's relationships next time.

50 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

 

Run, Iris, Run :)

[Trini]

5 hours ago, ruby24 said:

Big "life events" usually are weddings, births and deaths. It's supposed to be "happy," so that rules out death, and no one is pregnant, so a birth isn't happening. Engagement could be a life event I guess. I don't know what else would count to be special enough as a crossover event.

5 hours ago, RedVitC said:

I'm trying to think of different life events, but for some reason I can't think of a lot of different ones: Weddings/getting engaged, birth (no one is pregnant that we know of right?), Job changes, secret identity reveal, moving (to another earth?)

5 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Engagement, Wedding, getting pregnant/announcement, death and with this group rebirth.

Also maybe a couple moving in together; adoption; or various 'firsts': date, sex, kiss? A graduation? I wouldn't rule out a pregnancy either, even though it's unlikely.

Edited August 3, 2017 by Trini

[wonderwall]

To me, logically it makes sense that the network would move Arrow because of the extra day in between.

But it still sucks that Arrow is the one that has to be pushed and pulled and the one that has to conform to the other shows. Stephen was excited for the show to close, and to be honest so was I because I'd have liked to have seen the conflict ending on the show I watch. Instead we'll be in the middle and have zero resolution. Its just very unsatisfying. 

And to people who don't get why some people feel this way, you don't have to? Just respect that they do. 

[Starfish35]

Are you saying you only intend on watching the Arrow portion of the crossover?  In that case, I could see why a person would prefer, if they're only watching one piece, for it to be the end piece.  I guess I was thinking of it all as one thing in four parts, not four separate shows, and didn't see why it much mattered what the order was.   I apologize for my misunderstanding. :(

Edited August 3, 2017 by Starfish35

[tv echo]

EW has updated its article to include the GB quote. ComicBookMovie reported GB's quote slightly differently. Note the difference? One seems to rebut the wedding idea, while the other doesn't. Also, regarding MG's quote below, so much for SA saying that Arrow's tone will remain Arrow, regardless of its participation in a crossover...

CW sets two-night event for four-way superhero crossover
NATALIE ABRAMS AUGUST 2, 2017
http://ew.com/tv/2017/08/02/cw-flash-arrow-supergirl-legends-crossover-date/

Quote

Details on the four-way crossover are being kept under wraps, but Pedowitz did offer one tease: “Let me just say, romance is in the air,” he said, likening this big team-up to Marvel’s tentpole movies. “What’s the joy of having the third Avengers? It’s the fun of having everybody get together, that’s the fun of it. You get to see a whole different thing. They’re all big episodic productions, but this will be even bigger.”

Executive producer Greg Berlanti later confirmed that romance does play a role. “That is true,” Berlanti said. “Our way of making the show bigger this year was to go even more personal, so it’s a big life event for a few different people on the show.” Like a wedding? “There are many life events that happen,” he countered.

ARROWVERSE Crossover Will Revolve Around A Big Romantic Event; Is The Flash Finally Tying The Knot?
Josh Wilding | 8/3/2017
https://www.comicbookmovie.com/tv/dc/the_flash/arrowverse-crossover-will-revolve-around-a-big-romantic-event-is-the-flash-finally-tying-the-knot-a153022

Quote

It was yesterday that we learned when this year's Arrowverse crossover will air over two nights and now a few more details about what we should expect from the event have been revealed. The CW President Mark Pedowitz has said that "romance is in the air" for our heroes and now The Flash executive producer Greg Berlanti has expanded on that by saying it will feature a "big life event."

"Our way of making the show bigger this year was to go even more personal," he explains, "so it’s a big life event for a few different people on the show. There are many life events that happen." What could he be talking about? Well, speculation is already running rampant online that the heroes will all be brought together here for an event as momentous as the wedding of Barry Allen to Iris West. 
*  *  *
We'll just have to wait and see on that but Arrow executive producer Marc Guggenheim went on to explain that there's a very specific reason for why the crossover is now taking place over two nights.

"We’re really approaching this big four-part event as two back-to-back two hour movies, and I think when you look at it through that lens, it becomes less important for the Supergirl episode to feel like a Supergirl episode and the Arrow episode to feel like an Arrow episode, which was always our approach in the past." What are you guys hoping it will entail? Let us know your thoughts below. 

Edited August 3, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Gorilla Grodd will be part of LoT's group of villains, and some other info from TCA Summer Press Tour...

Legends of Tomorrow bosses on introducing Muslim superhero
NATALIE ABRAMS AUGUST 2, 2017 
http://ew.com/tv/2017/08/02/legends-of-tomorrow-muslim-superhero/?23 

Quote

In other news, the Legends bosses revealed that The Flash villain Gorilla Grodd will appear in season 3 as one of the many villains targeting the Legends, which also include Vixen’s granddaughter Kuasa (Tracy Ifeachor) and a new iteration of Damien Darhk (Neal McDonough), who will be the leader of this new group. “We’re going to have a group of villains that’s going to have little bit more of a rotating membership,” Guggenheim said.

Supergirl boss Greg Berlanti addresses Sanvers future
NATALIE ABRAMS AUGUST 2, 2017
http://ew.com/tv/2017/08/02/supergirl-season-3-maggie-alex-sanvers/ 

Quote

For fans worried this may spell the end of the Sanvers relationship, Berlanti played coy. “I don’t want to say too much about the story aspects of it, but we got into it wanting to tell the story of Alex because she was a lead on the show and no matter what, we want to continue exploring Alex’s romantic life,” Berlanti said. “We get to do it in as much as actors want to come play and work with us as much as we can. It’s obviously been a really successful element of the show. We love telling the stories.”
*  *  *
“I think [Floriana is] wonderful on the show, and she’s got some real ardent fans, and she should,” he said. “Of course we wanted more of her, but she’s got other things in the hopper and other things she wants to consider. We’d love to have her back as much as possible.”

Edited August 3, 2017 by tv echo

[Featherhat]

Last time LOT finished the crossover and it was definitely the least "this is our show with some special guests" of the four. It even ended with Oliver and Barry getting a beer together. Placement doesn't necessarily matter that much, especially when they're promoting it as a run on movie. Yeah its not great but it's logical. By the time it airs I'm sure there will be a lot else to complain about. ;)

[tv echo]

Another media report on that romance teaser...

THIS YEAR’S ARROW-VERSE 4 SHOW CROSSOVER MAY HAPPEN FOR ROMANTIC REASONS
POSTED BY SYDNEY BUCKSBAUM ON AUGUST 2, 2017
http://nerdist.com/dc-arrow-supergirl-flash-legends-tomorrow-crossover-romance-cw-tca/

Quote

... The network just revealed details about the highly-anticipated crossover with Supergirl, The Flash, Arrow and Legends of Tomorrow, and based on the new intel, the aliens of last year’s crossover epic will bested this year with a storyline based on…love?

According to The CW President Mark Pedowitz, yes. “I do not want to give it away,” Pedowitz explained during the Summer 2017 Television Critics Association Press Tour. “I don’t want to give any spoiler alerts but let me just say, romance is in the air.
*  *  *
Let’s go back to that romance bit, because obviously that leads us to the multi-series arc. When Arrow and Legends of Tomorrow executive producer Marc Guggenheim was later asked to elaborate on what Pedowitz meant by that, he said, “I really can’t, actually.”

“I will say this, [Thursday] we’re going to pitch the network on what the crossover is,” Guggenheim added. “There’s just no way that we can top aliens last year, so [we figured] let’s up the emotional content. At the very least, we know we can bring the emotion. I’m not saying the emotion is romantic, necessarily. I’m just saying, we start from a place of, we wanted there to be some really big emotional turns for our characters. One of the differences about the crossover this year as opposed to years past is, we’re doing some big character moves that affect all four of the shows.”

Also, MG confirmed that, yes, Damian Darhk is brought back from the dead...

Arrowverse Showrunner Promises ‘Fun’ Damien Darhk Return
Dusty Stowe   August 3, 2017
http://screenrant.com/legends-tomorrow-season-3-damien-darhk-return/

Quote

While discussing the show at this week’s Television Critics Association, series producer Marc Guggenheim confirmed Darhk is returning to Legends of Tomorrow this season, but it will be a version of the character after his death on Arrow.

“[Legends of Tomorrow season 3] is a different Damien Darhk than the one you saw last year. This is the post-Arrow season 4. We pick up after he’s been killed. We have a fun way to bring him back.”

Edited August 3, 2017 by tv echo

[bijoux]

13 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

Last time LOT finished the crossover and it was definitely the least "this is our show with some special guests" of the four. It even ended with Oliver and Barry getting a beer together. Placement doesn't necessarily matter that much, especially when they're promoting it as a run on movie. Yeah its not great but it's logical. By the time it airs I'm sure there will be a lot else to complain about. ;)

That was just weird. I understand the instinct of having Oliver and Barry interact, because I do like their dynamic more often than not, but the logical thing would have been to end it with the Waverider disappearing into another time or something. 

[Cleanqueen]

The LOT portion of the crossover last year was my favorite part from start to finish. In previous years I've always preferred the flash portion of it. I just like the crossovers to be fun and have characters that normally don't interact actually interact.

I do think there is at least a wedding in the crossover. And tbh I think it will probably be the WA wedding, I don't think it is a coincidence that the save the date matches the actual date the flash episode airs in the crossover.

I am pretty sure we will probably get at least one pregnancy announcement, maybe Lyla is pregnant again?

A proposal, perhaps olicity if they're not engaged by then

And Mon El and Kara reuniting. 

[way2interested]

14 minutes ago, bijoux said:

That was just weird. I understand the instinct of having Oliver and Barry interact, because I do like their dynamic more often than not, but the logical thing would have been to end it with the Waverider disappearing into another time or something. 

Yeah, I actually felt a little bad for really liking the scene because I thought if I was a huge fan of LoT, I would have felt a bit cheated. Although, the LoT episode was the best one in the whole crossover, so then I end up not feeling too bad at the end of the day.

[Sunshine]

I hate the idea (because I hate Barry) but I think a Barry & Iris wedding makes the most sense for a big life event bringing everyone together.  Barry & Cisco are the only characters who have interacted with the Supergirl CAST.  I would expect this to be the Big CW Wedding of the   Arrowverse because it is comic cannon.  

[bijoux]

I'm fine with everybody gathering for their wedding, because I really don't see it actually happening. Supergirl and whoever doesn't even need to be invited, she'll already be there, so why not invite her last minute since things deceptively look fine at the end of the first crossover night. Then things go kaboom on The Flash and the wedding gets cancelled/postponed.

Or, if they really want something different, they can send everybody to SG's Earth. Little world hopping as a corporate retreat.

[tv echo]

DC'S LEGENDS OF TOMORROW: SEASON 3'S SUPERNATURAL VILLAIN RECRUITS GORILLA GRODD
TERRI SCHWARTZ  2 AUG 2017
http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/08/02/dcs-legends-of-tomorrow-season-3s-supernatural-villain-recruits-gorilla-grodd

Quote

After the success of the Legion of Doom in DC's Legends of Tomorrow: Season 2, the upcoming season of The CW series will again be uniting a team of villains. This time, though, there will be a different sort of person in charge.

"At the head of whatever you want to call our evil organization, it's different. Last year it was three characters from the three different shows that form this alliance. This is a non-human entity," executive producer Phil Klemmer told IGN at the 2017 TV Critics' Association summer press tour. "This is a much more supernatural, spooky vibe this season. We're dealing more with magic. It's less real-world bad guys."
*  *  *
Klemmer was keen to leave that character a secret, but he did promise you will hear the character's name in the Season 3 premiere. Unlike previous seasons which are more science or time-travel focused, Season 3 of Legends will "be more in the world of the occult and monsters."

Following behind this leader as his acolytes are familiar characters like Damian Darhk, who will have been brought back to life after his death on Arrow, as well as Gorilla Grodd. "Damian Darhk is going to be the leader of this group in the way Thawne was sort of the boss last year for the Legion of Doom. This group is distinctly led up by Damien," executive producer Marc Guggenheim told reporters. He added, "We have a fun way to bring him back that kind of plays into the season-long mythology."

As for Grodd, Klemmer said, "It will be a version of him that we have not met yet on any of the shows. It will be the most evolved and powerful form of Grodd. We're actually breaking the episode now." This will be a post-Gorilla City Grodd. Legends will lean even more into Grodd's sympathetic and sad plight, and at least one of the Legends will "take the bait" for Grodd's side of things.
*  *  *
"We want to give you the sense of a group like we did last year, because that was a lot of fun," said Guggenheim to a group of reporters. "There'll be a little bit more rotation, also so we can give you a little bit more of a variety." He said he does have a name for this group of supervillains that he would "like to see referenced on the show."

Unlike Season 2's "aberrations," Season 3 will deal with "anachronisms," where figures from throughout history appear in time periods not their own. An upcoming example of one of these: What if Helen of Troy turned up in 1940s Hollywood and started a studio war? The mysterious villain of Season 3 is "exploiting these fractures to sort of further their global evil purpose."
*  *  *
Upcoming storylines see the Legends visiting Ray's childhood where, Klemmer teases, the audience "sort of get underneath [Ray's] skin a little bit, and we sort of figure out the pathology behind [his] optimism. There's a bit of a sadness to [his] childhood, and we realize that you are hiding some darkness."

Additionally, Paul Blackthorne is hoped to appear as Quentin Lance in Season 3, episode 5 (though that's not officially locked in), and Wentworth Miller is coming back as a "bizarro" version of Captain Cold. Klemmer confirms they're still actively campaigning for Matt Ryan's Constantine to appear on Legends of Tomorrow as well.

Edited August 3, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

I found this article interesting for any number of reasons...

Why It's Okay That Arrow and Supergirl Borrow From Better Known Superheroes
By Russ Burlingame | August 2, 2017
http://comicbook.com/movies/2017/08/03/in-defense-of-the-poor-mans-version/

Quote

"Arrow is just Batman with a new coat of paint."

For all the times we've heard that criticism of The CW's flagship superhero drama, it's rare that anybody actually digs down very deep into it, except for in a really snarky way.

It's actually a fairly common complaint that goes across all of superhero media. The critique is leveled against Supergirl for the show's frequent use of Superman foes; Marvel drew some heat for rolling out Quicksilver right around the same time as The Flash headed to TV; Agents of SHIELD got a little bit of Damage Control shade back when it launched, and of course shows like Gotham and the forthcoming Krypton are always in danger of having to answer for the hundredth time when the character is going to put on a costume and the "real" story will start.
*  *  *
For today, though, we're going to focus on just a few -- mostly Supergirl and Arrow -- and talk about why being "the poor man's _____" is maybe not as terrible as it's cracked up to be.

NEW IDEAS

Perhaps the most important reason not to belittle this practice is simple: there are ideas that are very unlikely ever to make it into a big-screen adaptation of an A-list character, but can easily find a way to resonate with audiences when handed off to another character.
*  *  *
Among the characters and concepts that seem like self-evidently awesome ideas to longtime fans, though, there are hundreds that are unlikely to ever make the grade as a feature film starring Superman or Batman. The budgetary and scheduling constraints of such productions are simply too great, and the fact that Marvel and DC have movies that are all part of an elaborately-Jenga-ed shared universe makes it even less likely that side characters, subplots, and non-super stories will ever be told in the blockbuster epics.

Introducing them into TV series allows them to start as minor characters and grow as the story merits it -- but the A-list characters attached to many of these properties will not have a live-action series again anytime soon. So the best chance to see someone like Morgan Edge is to remove him from the context of Superman and Metropolis and drop him into National City with Supergirl.

This has been true across the Arrowverse of shows, with characters like Vibe and Wild Dog, who haven't been able to support their own comics in decades (if ever) becoming mainstream success stories on shows with viewerships larger than the circulation of DC's best-selling comic books.
*  *  *
SUPPORTING CASTS

We wouldn't be the first, or the hundred thousandth, to note that superhero comics are basically soap operas for a different demographic.

A big part of the appeal of most of the best superhero comics is the supporting cast -- and you can track a trend in recent comics whereby the superheroics and "events" take center stage at the expense of the supporting cast, which has contributed to a culture where comic book readers tend to read things they think "count" instead of things that are simply good. 
*  *  *
Big-budget movies featuring A-list characters are, by and large, the live-action equivalent of event comics. Nothing happens that's "small," and very little of the time is spent on the characters' personal lives.

But, as is evidenced by the huge shipping communities that surround basically every superhero show, there is an audience for these characters to slow down and have actual lives, friends, loved ones, and the like -- in fact, most people who watch the shows demand some degree of development beyond just the punching of bad guys.

And while Superman and Batman are off battling Darkseid together, Green Arrow and Supergirl have meaningful relationships with their partners, friends, co-workers, and other non-masked people.
*  *  *
IT ISN'T AS SIMPLE AS YOU THINK

The last point? In almost none of these cases are the "poor man's version" actually a poor man's version.

Yes, they may borrow some -- or a lot -- from the mythologies of other characters, but when done right, those thefts are happening in a way that strengthens the mythology of the specific character in question without undermining the mythology who are providing the raw story materials.

That Gotham is planning to use Ra's al Ghul, complete with "I want you to be my heir" and "here's a Lazarus Pit," in its upcoming season seems like a pretty good indication that Arrow returned the character in pretty much the same condition they found it, while still telling some stories that rank among the show's strongest with Ra's as a villain.

Supergirl is, again, a prime example here: Cat Grant has never really found a niche in the Superman mythology. Created as a potential love interest for Clark and rival for Lois, her creation came just before the Lois/Clark relationship "grew up" in the '90s and the pair were married. Try as they might, later writers never exactly seemed to find a comfortable groove for Cat.

Bringing her to Supergirl, though, allowed the writers to create a whole new dynamic between Cat and the super-powered character in her orbit. Why? Well, in part, because Supergirl may borrow a lot from Superman but both as a character and as a TV series, the two are incredibly distinct.

Edited August 3, 2017 by tv echo

[Miss Dee]

Those are some good points. TV can take the smaller stories and flesh them out a little more, and TV can take time to show the non-"event" happenings that round out their lives. The character moments of the DCCW shows are my favourite parts; I honestly don't care who they're between (although obviously the ones with Mick are my favourites).

One of the reasons I like Gotham so much is that they have the freedom to tell a story I haven't seen elsewhere: what were the formative years of Bruce Wayne like, and how was "Batman" forged? Most stories present him as a fait accompli, even when they're ostensibly showing how Batman Begins (see what I did there?). I don't want another story where Batman springs fully formed from the mind of Bruce Wayne like Athena from Zeus. I want to see him built, molecule by molecule.

I'd never get that story from the movies; hell, I'm not sure whether it's been covered in either comics or animated series. I'll always appreciate Gotham for giving me a different spin on that tale.

[Miss Dee]

As for the Gorilla Grodd spoilers: I'd love it if Mick stood up for Grodd because he knows what it's like to be dismissed as dumb and brutish when there's a lot more going on under the surface.

Alternatively, I'd also like it if Ray stood up for Grodd specifically because he feels they're dismissing him in a way similar to how they've treated Mick.

Either way, I'd just be excited for once to get a spoiler for Mick that doesn't suggest he's gonna die or turn evil....

[yellowfred]

9 hours ago, Featherhat said:

Last time LOT finished the crossover and it was definitely the least "this is our show with some special guests" of the four. It even ended with Oliver and Barry getting a beer together. Placement doesn't necessarily matter that much, especially when they're promoting it as a run on movie. Yeah its not great but it's logical. 

Yeah, that's the main reason I feel like it's probably better not to close out the crossover.  Like, I get that Legends episode had the big final battle and more of a resolution than the other episodes, but it also had by far the least focus on it's own characters.  That being said, I don't know how much of that was because it was the last episode of the crossover and how much was because it was the Legends episode, since Legends is basically the red-headed stepchild of the Arrowverse.

I'll be interested to see if they actually make it as much of a "one long movie" thing as they've been saying.  Like, I remember them saying similar stuff about last year's crossover, and it definitely had more of a "four different episodes of four different shows" vibe.

Edited August 3, 2017 by yellowfred

[lemotomato]

This makes me want to take back any criticism I had of the Arrow stunts team. 

My favorite exchange in the comments:

Quote

"i understand the Supergirl jump but what is supposed to be happening with the Flash"

"Basically he's supposed to be making a wind tunnel by spinning his arms really fast."

 

Edited August 3, 2017 by lemotomato

[LeighAn]

Arrow don't need no cgi to look believable like those other shows. 

[leopardprint]

1 minute ago, LeighAn said:

Arrow don't need no cgi to look believable like those other shows. 

Aren't the arrows all CGI? ?