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Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

ArctisTor

By ArctisTor
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apinknightmare
apinknightmare

I mean, I don't want her in a suit so it's not the "never" in this instance that bothers me, but Marc saying that Felicity specifically would make the notion of superheroics "silly." Why? In this show

Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

And then someone tells him that what he did was okay because of reasons, or that he can't keep feeling guilty, he just has to move forward. Like, no, just...go ahead and feel really guilty for awhile?

SleepDeprived
SleepDeprived

Hey, now... Listen. The practice of proper etiquette during an impromptu wedding officiated by your best friend in a park, right after the funeral of a beloved colleague, is of the utmost importance,

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Starfish35

Starfish35

23 minutes ago, Belinea said:

I am more interested in the bi character or the character that is going to come out. However they phrased that. Wonder who it will be? 

In the TVLine article, it was AK who announced that, and then GB said it would be a "significant character".  AK being the one to announce it makes me think it's a Flash or Supergirl character.

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statsgirl

statsgirl

Alex is useful to them for teasing multiple ships, like with J'onn or Maxwell Lord.  Also the most important relationship on Supergirl is Kara/Alex and to make Alex gay might affect that for some viewers.

I wonder if it's one of the new characters coming on to the show.  The reporter is gay in the comic books, right?

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Lily-n11

Lily-n11

(edited)

Maybe it's 22 episodes without the big crossover?

Since Supergirl premiers Oct. 10th (Monday after Flash and Arrow) I thought it would be another 22 ep-season and Flash and Arrow would have 23 episodes.

checking facts... Supergirl season 1 was 20 episodes.  Clearly Arrow and Flash had to donate one episode each.

Edited by Lily-n11
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Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)
Quote

Alex is useful to them for teasing multiple ships, like with J'onn or Maxwell Lord.  Also the most important relationship on Supergirl is Kara/Alex and to make Alex gay might affect that for some viewers.

I wonder if it's one of the new characters coming on to the show.  The reporter is gay in the comic books, right?

I think you're thinking of Maggie Sawyer, the detective.  But IIRC she's already out according to the character description, so it's not her.

Edited by Starfish35
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Proteus

Proteus

2 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

I think you're thinking of Maggie Sawyer, the detective.  But IIRC she's already out according to the character description, so it's not her.

Alex will probably be paired with her.

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Starfish35

Starfish35

3 minutes ago, Trini said:

They said any of the four shows, but I think it's more likely to be Legends or Supergirl. And I'm leaning more toward Supergirl.

I was thinking Flash and Supergirl - who do you think it might be on LoT?  I agree though - I'm also leaning toward it being Supergirl. 

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statsgirl

statsgirl

57 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I think a musical episode works if the music is specifically written for the show. If it's a bunch of characters walking around singing Muzak top 40? The possibility for secondhand embarrassment is very high. 

Not necessarily, if the songs are good and the actors can sing.  Peter Bogdanovich's At Long Last Love failed (Cole Porter songs etc.) but that was because the actors couldn't sing.  Woody Allen has done it successfully a number of times.

I only insist that Barrowman be on that episode, and maybe Colton Haynes.

Could Snart be the character that's coming out?  My money's on Winn though.

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Guest

Guest

I think it's someone on Supergirl. My first thought was Winn because I actually thought he was gay at first. But I wouldn't rule out Alex either.

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Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)

I think Winn or Alex, and I don't know that I'd be thinking Alex if they hadn't brought Maggie Sawyer in.  

I forgot to comment - Lance Henrickson as Obsidian on LoT.  Awesome! :)  I've loved him ever since Fringe.

EDIT: I'm a complete idiot - I just realized I was thinking of Lance Reddick, not Henriksen.

Edited by Starfish35
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

3 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Not necessarily, if the songs are good and the actors can sing.  

Just stating my own feelings about it. I haven't seen every non-original music musical episode ever, but the ones I have seen have been IMO totally cringeworthy. 

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Trini

Trini

Fringe managed to make their 'musical' episode work with actors not great at singing, with no original songs, so I'm not worried about that part at all. The overall writing of the episodes and how they fit the songs in the story is the part that's tricky.

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statsgirl

statsgirl

If it's Winn or Alex on Supergirl, that will mean that all the gay actors on the Flarrowvers shows play straight characters while the gay characters are played by straight actors.

I understand the logic of having the musical episode be a cross-over of Supergirl and The Flash but we've been talking about a musical episode of Arrow since before The Flash was created and it just feels like another kick at Arrow when it's down.

There is nothing that turns me off The Flash or Supergirl more than they way Berlanti & Co. treat Arrow.

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ruby24

ruby24

It's two musical episodes, right? One of Flash and one of Supergirl, so it's basically a two-parter?

The Buffy musical is one of my favorite episodes of TV ever, but partly because I liked the original score Joss came up with, and how everything tied into the characters and the story so perfectly. This one will probably be more of a stunt thing. But it could still be fun. I assume Grant, Jesse, and Carlos will sing on Flash, and I don't know who besides Melissa and Jeremy can sing on Supergirl.

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Starfish35

Starfish35

Quote

we've been talking about a musical episode of Arrow since before The Flash was created and it just feels like another kick at Arrow when it's down.

Well SA's been pretty strongly opposed to doing a musical episode.  So that might have had something to do with it.

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statsgirl

statsgirl

The Grey's Anatomy one was awful but didn't Chyler Leigh do okay on it?

As a show, I seem to remember that Buffy was pretty dark but it set the bar for musical episodes because it was so well done.

I don't know why SA is so opposed to it because he's not shy about singing in public, especially when liquored up.  I wonder if he was opposed to it because he knew it was never going to happen on Arrow and it was a "well, I don't want to be in your stupid club anyway" preemptive move.

Although right now, with all the audio enhancements, really anyone can sing well enough to carry off an episode.

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

For me is I DO NOT WANT to watch this version of Oliver Queen singing. Holy crap, forever NOPE on that. It's not Steve. It's Oliver. The thought of him bursting into song makes me wanna bleach my brain with acid.

I have zero trouble imagining the folks on Flash and Supergirl bursting into song. I mean.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

(edited)
Quote

As a show, I seem to remember that Buffy was pretty dark but it set the bar for musical episodes because it was so well done.

Sorry but noooooooo ☺

Xena set the bar, not only was it done first it was done better, IMO. Buffy's musical episode was trash compared to Xena (IMO)...ok well not trash but The Bitter Suite was a beautiful episode in a near perfect season. 

Edited by Morrigan2575
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catrox14

catrox14

I didn't think SPN could do a musical episode but damn if they didn't pull it off and it worked for most viewers. It did for me as far how the music was worked in but it didn't work for me because well, reasons related to plot and character arcs. I didn't think a musical episode was necessary and the boys do sing in the car from time to time. But the music was clever and original. I'd be curious whose going to write the numbers for The Flash and Supergirl.

I think Stephen knows that Oliver on the earth he's on now would not be a singing kind of guy. And I think that is smart.  If they had Oliver Queen on Earth 85million then maybe Oliver grew up differently and maybe did some musical theatre in high school to meet girls and finds out he's actually really good at it.

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statsgirl

statsgirl

(edited)

 I'm an opera fan.  By which I mean, yes, music can be part of a dark story but no, I do not want Stephen Amell attempting Oliver's version of "No, pagliaccio non son" or "Vesti La Giubba" (Put On The Costume).

Edited by statsgirl
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Carrie Ann

Carrie Ann

(edited)

Stephen has been against the idea from the very first, so I don't think it was a case of him preemptively rejecting it because he knew TPTB would give that idea to the other shows instead, or something.  Based on his comments, I think he agrees with some of us here that it would be a bad fit for Arrow, and however much he may enjoy karaoke, that doesn't mean he thinks Oliver should break into (in all likelihood) some crappy on-the-nose alt-rock covers that would make me cringe my face off. My personal feeling is gratitude that The Flash and Supergirl exist to take this on instead, because they have the right tone to do it in a hopefully less cringe-y way, and the people involved seem enthusiastic about it.

ETA: Despite how relieved I am, I know some people have really wanted this for Arrow for a long time--so just wanted to say sorry for those of you who feel disappointed.

Edited by Carrie Ann
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

(edited)
9 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I didn't think SPN could do a musical episode but damn if they didn't pull it off and it worked for most viewers. It did for me as far how the music was worked in but it didn't work for me because well, reasons related to plot and character arcs. I didn't think a musical episode was necessary and the boys do sing in the car from time to time. But the music was clever and original. I'd be curious whose going to write the numbers for The Flash and Supergirl.

In theory it wouldn't but, music has been as big a part of the SPN story as the Impala so it just worked.  I remember when i first learned SPN was soing a Musical episode it just felt right. I also loved the way they did it, quite brilliant and a perfect fit for the show. 

Edited by Morrigan2575
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Guest

Guest

I'm already hiding in secondhand embarrassment for the musical episode, even though it's definitely better suited to The Flash and Supergirl. But I'm cringing already. LOL.

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ohjoy

ohjoy

1 hour ago, Starfish35 said:

I forgot to comment - Lance Henrickson as Obsidian on LoT.  Awesome! :)  I've loved him ever since Fringe.

EDIT: I'm a complete idiot - I just realized I was thinking of Lance Reddick, not Henriksen.

If it makes you feel better @Starfish35, I made the same mistake you did, but didn't realize it until I saw your comment.

 

32 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

For me is I DO NOT WANT to watch this version of Oliver Queen singing. Holy crap, forever NOPE on that. It's not Steve. It's Oliver. The thought of him bursting into song makes me wanna bleach my brain with acid.

That was totally my thinking as well, until I saw this

27 minutes ago, manbearpig said:

An Arrow musical would be depressing as hell. I'm imagining an hour of sad montages set to Coldplay songs.

and this,

24 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Oliver moping on his cot in the Arrow Bunker, singing REM's "Everybody Hurts"

and now I'm cackling internally about how bad it would be. The idea of Oliver's musical Sad Panda face -- or better yet, rage-singing! -- for an hour should not amuse me as much as it does.

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quarks

quarks

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

 I'm an opera fan.  By which I mean, yes, music can be part of a dark story but no, I do not want Stephen Amell attempting Oliver's version of "No, pagliaccio non son" or "Vesti La Giubba" (Put On The Costume).

Ok. Now I need a moment where Malcolm is happily singing "NESSUN DORMA" and just as he reaches the final "VINCERROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO" Oliver shoots him straight through the heart - or the neck - with an arrow.

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calliope1975

calliope1975

I feel weird about the character that's going to be gay. OK, that's sounds terrible. I mean that I kind of don't like that they're teasing this. I suppose I understand they don't want to undermine the character's arc, if it is, in fact, a current character and not a new one. But you wouldn't say...someone this year's going to be a woman. Someone's going to be Asian. Am I overthinking this? I guess we're not there yet where it's part of the norm like it is where I live/work/etc.

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Carrie Ann

Carrie Ann

(edited)

Based on Berlanti's comments--something about not wanting viewers to be ahead of the character's journey--I think maybe the character is just figuring out for themselves that they are gay or at least just now deciding that they want to come out, which makes it logical to me that it would be a plot point and therefore teased. Coming out is something that separates LGBT experience from that of other minorities'/oppressed groups' experience (intersection aside).

Edited by Carrie Ann
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Just now, NumberCruncher said:

Don't most people know from an early age that they are gay though?  I find it strange that they would portray an adult character suddenly making that determination.

Sometimes it takes people a long time to come to terms with their sexuality. Perhaps the character is just now getting ready to come out. 

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NumberCruncher

NumberCruncher

3 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Sometimes it takes people a long time to come to terms with their sexuality. Perhaps the character is just now getting ready to come out. 

I understand that but what I meant is it doesn't seem coherent to make a character who hasn't previously exhibited any leanings at all that way to suddenly make the realization.  From a storytelling perspective I'm just scratching my head, but clearly I'm just overthinking this.  Moving on... 

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Carrie Ann

Carrie Ann

6 minutes ago, NumberCruncher said:

Don't most people know from an early age that they are gay though?  I find it strange that they would portray an adult character suddenly making that determination.

I was editing my post while you were posting, adding that the character may be just deciding to come out now, but yeah, I do think there are a lot of people who don't fully realize or understand their sexuality until later in life, or aren't willing to admit it to themselves or others. 

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Trini

Trini

6 minutes ago, NumberCruncher said:

I understand that but what I meant is it doesn't seem coherent to make a character who hasn't previously exhibited any leanings at all that way to suddenly make the realization.  From a storytelling perspective I'm just scratching my head, but clearly I'm just overthinking this.  Moving on... 

Hmmm. From a storytelling perspective, this makes Alex a more probable candidate; she hasn't really been paired up with anyone (she has flirted with Max Lord, though). Or it's Jax. I think every other "significant" character (who's not already gay) on the 4 shows has been shown in at least one relationship.

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Sakura12

Sakura12

Jax has been shown to like women, he wanted to ask Kendra out and he had a sort of love interest with a girl in the 50's. 

I'm thinking it's going to be Alex. She flirted with Max Lord for her job. 

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Starfish35

Starfish35

The more I think about it, the more I think it's going to be Alex.  I think personally I'd prefer it to be Winn, but....I think it will be Alex.  Supergirl generally speaking focuses more on their female characters, so the odds are, if it's a Supergirl character, it's going to be Alex rather than Winn.  *shrug*  I could be wrong though.

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calliope1975

calliope1975

1 hour ago, Carrie Ann said:

Based on Berlanti's comments--something about not wanting viewers to be ahead of the character's journey--I think maybe the character is just figuring out for themselves that they are gay or at least just now deciding that they want to come out, which makes it logical to me that it would be a plot point and therefore teased. Coming out is something that separates LGBT experience from that of other minorities'/oppressed groups' experience (intersection aside).

That's fair. I kinda thought I was being overly sensitive. 

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