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Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

ArctisTor

By ArctisTor
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apinknightmare
apinknightmare

I mean, I don't want her in a suit so it's not the "never" in this instance that bothers me, but Marc saying that Felicity specifically would make the notion of superheroics "silly." Why? In this show

Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

And then someone tells him that what he did was okay because of reasons, or that he can't keep feeling guilty, he just has to move forward. Like, no, just...go ahead and feel really guilty for awhile?

SleepDeprived
SleepDeprived

Hey, now... Listen. The practice of proper etiquette during an impromptu wedding officiated by your best friend in a park, right after the funeral of a beloved colleague, is of the utmost importance,

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jay741982

jay741982

Dear AOS showrunners:

Can FitzSimmons finally have sex? they're all cute and all, but like Simmons said they know each other for 10 years. come on! I'm ready for them to finally consummate their feelings.

Also: Holy shit Daisy!

Lol Hell yes I'm ready for Fitzsimmons sexy times!

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nksarmi

nksarmi

Look there are probably things that Flash does better than all the other Flarrowverse shows - I'm not coming up with one at the moment, but let's not get hung up over semantics. But even LoT is about to do an episode where if someone kills their younger self - they die in present day.

 

But holy heck - somehow Flash characters manage not to die when their younger selves die!??!?!  Hell, Eobard Thawne managed not to die despite that fact that his ancestor died and he should have never been born!

 

Let me just say that really actually bugs the living shit out of me.  If Eddie is the man in the iron mask on Earth 2 - and they bring him back to Earth 1 by the end of the season then I can forgive a lot. But until the point in time comes when Eddie turns out to be alive - Flash is one really f-ed up show!!!!  Because all the speedforce in the world should not be able to explain how Eddie doesn't have said child that leads to Eobard and all of season one of Flash isn't erased. 

 

Seriously - no show does time travel worse than Flash.  At least on Legends they actually say the heroes are mucking up history - they might be bad time travelers and some of Rip's ideas might be plot holey (like if the team has issues killing a tween - jump them forward five years and let them kill him then!), but at least someone CAN be erased from the timeline on that show.  Flash? Not so much.

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Actionmage

Actionmage

(edited)

there is just no older women in the Flarrowverse in the past two seasons outside of Cat Grant.

 

There is Tina McGee (played by her 90s actress, Amanda Pays) and Martin Stein's wife, Clarissa played by Homicide:LotS's  Isabella Hoffman. Those ladies should be considered recent enough. There was also recurring Terryl Rothery ( SG1) as Moira's lawyer Jean Loring(!), but that was when we had Moira.

 

There is a good bit of -isms floating around the Flarrowverse, but the fixes seem pretty simple going forward, and it doesn't need to decimate what's come before or totally start from scratch. Just do better with inclusion. Gender, POC, sexuality, age. They have flashes (as it were) of really good characters, but do practically nothing. I hope that Curtis and his S.O. can end up being a nice, strong couple with little to no capital D drama. ( And a dinner at the Michaels-Diggle household! Couple friends!)

 

added: I almost forgot Mrs. Evil, Ruve Adams; the wife of Damien Darhk, played by the lovely Janet Kidder!

Edited by Actionmage
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kismet

kismet

There is Tina McGee (played by her 90s actress, Amanda Pays) and Martin Stein's wife, Clarissa played by Homicide:LotS's  Isabella Hoffman. Those ladies should be considered recent enough. There was also recurring Terryl Rothery ( SG1) as Moira's lawyer Jean Loring(!), but that was when we had Moira.

 

There is a good bit of -isms floating around the Flarrowverse, but the fixes seem pretty simple going forward, and it doesn't need to decimate what's come before or totally start from scratch. Just do better with inclusion. Gender, POC, sexuality, age. They have flashes (as it were) of really good characters, but do practically nothing. I hope that Curtis and his S.O. can end up being a nice, strong couple with little to no capital D drama. ( And a dinner at the Michaels-Diggle household! Couple friends!)

 

added: I almost forgot Mrs. Evil, Ruve Adams; the wife of Damien Darhk, played by the lovely Janet Kidder!

Great examples of guests stars or barely recurring guests. But my point was that Cat Grant is the only regular Flarrowverse female role in all 3 shows over the age of 35. It's been 2 yrs since there was another main female star over 35 & that was Moira. MQ's storyline according to the TPTB had reached its conclusion, when really that's just a lot of excuses because anyone on this forum could have found at least one little nugget of a storyline to keep MQ alive - she was cut out too soon. Both Flash & Arrow have bent over backwards to keep Malcolm & Wells when really if you look at their trajectories of their storylines they have also reached a realistic end. The only difference is they were male & comic characters so they get to come back despite being killed off in a way appropriate for their characters & their show's hero's journey. 

 

I think its good the Flarrowverse has quality guest & recurring female stars, but they need to do better with making women over 35 part of the regular cast. I think Ruve was in like 2-3 episodes, whereas DD was in just about every episode this season, even if it was just for a one-liner. Until they increase their female regulars, I'm going to attribute some of the media's reporting to be more a fault on the writers & TPTB than on the journalists trying to overlook more seasoned female actors.

 

I really hope the Flarrowverse gets better with inclusion when it comes to gender, race & age ~ however, I'm not holding my breath when it comes to permanent or significant roles. I think they will continue to have great guest parts, but the core dynamics will likely not change especially when it comes to gender.

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FurryFury

FurryFury

Finally got around to watching the Flash and holy moly, this was the stupidest thing I've seen in a while, and I'm watching Supergirl and LoT (I actually like these shows, but they are really bad at plotting). It made zero sense and didn't have anything to distract the viewers, even. Epic fail.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

When did Sheldon Cooper of TBBT start wearing a Green Arrow t-shirt? I don't watch TBBT much but I always thought he wore Flash so the promo I saw surprised me.

A couple of times he rotates, I've seen Flash, Green Lantern, GA, Batman, Superman Shirts. I don't recall any Marvel shirts
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wonderwall

wonderwall

(edited)

So Chris Hayner posed a potentially fun question... Who'd win in a fight: Team Arrow or Team Flash for next season's crossover? And since LoT was spun off from both they can join in... 

 

Team Flash: Barry, Cisco, Iris, Caitlin, Snart, Wally, Wells, Stein, Kendra

Team Arrow: Oliver, Diggle, Felicity, Thea, Curtis (as Mr. Terrific), Sara, Ray

Edited by wonderwall
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wonderwall

wonderwall

Sadly, I think Team Flash could win because Cisco could just send Team Arrow to an alternate universe.

Or... Thea/Felicity could distract Cisco by flirting with him, and then take him out :p Cisco's weakness is beautiful women lol

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Menrva

Menrva

When did Sheldon Cooper of TBBT start wearing a Green Arrow t-shirt? I don't watch TBBT much but I always thought he wore Flash so the promo I saw surprised me.

Is it wrong of me to be annoyed that Sheldon's Green Arrow shirt is blue? Shouldn't it be green? Or maybe it should say Blue Arrow? Why does this bother me? It's so dumb and yet I keep thinking about it...so pathetic...
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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

So Chris Hayner posed a potentially fun question... Who'd win in a fight: Team Arrow or Team Flash for next season's crossover? And since LoT was spun off from both they can join in... 

 

Team Flash: Barry, Cisco, Iris, Caitlin, Snart, Wally, Wells, Stein, Kendra

Team Arrow: Oliver, Diggle, Felicity, Thea, Curtis (as Mr. Terrific), Sara, Ray

I'm going with Team Arrow cause I can't help it, but Sara has been training Kendra so she's getting better, but lets be honest, Snart and Mick (who is missing from the list) would come play with Sara if she asked them.  We'd probably lose Ray to Team Flash since Kendra is there but is that such a loss? 

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Sakura12

Sakura12

Yeah, I think Snart and Mick would go where Sara goes. Even if people think Snart respects Barry. He and Mick have bonded much more with Sara than him. Ray would go with Kendra. Team Arrow would gain Captain Cold and Heatwave and lose Ray, Team Arrow wins. 

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wonderwall

wonderwall

LOL Okay so the teams are

 

Team Flash: Barry, Cisco (Vibe), Caitlin (Killer Frost), Wally, Wells, Stein, Kendra, Ray

Team Arrow: Oliver, Diggle, Felicity, Thea, Curtis (Mr. Terrific), Sara, Snart, Mick

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way2interested

way2interested

LOL Okay so the teams are

 

Team Flash: Barry, Cisco (Vibe), Caitlin (Killer Frost), Wally, Wells, Stein, Kendra, Ray

Team Arrow: Oliver, Diggle, Felicity, Thea, Curtis (Mr. Terrific), Sara, Snart, Mick

 

I'm assuming if Team Arrow and Team Flash can get people who were never on their teams to begin with (Kendra, Snart, Mick), that Team Arrow can also get Vixen and Constantine, right? They were only acknowledged on Arrow, so they're up for grabs for Team Arrow rather than Flash, I would think. Not to mention if Team Flash can get Wally, who has done nothing but is destined to be a speedster, Team Arrow can get Roy back, right?

 

I guess you could hypothetically get Cisco to bring Supergirl onto Team Flash if they were desperate and Barry remembered his multidimensional trip.

 

 

Speaking of LoT, surprisingly good episode this week.  Sincerely lacking in stupidity or plot holes. 

I was surprised at how I liked it as well. There were still some timey-wimey plot holes that I had (not to mention the random introduction of amnesia pills), but at least they mentioned a ticking clock for those changes in the time line to take affect, so hypothetically they won't make a difference in general.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

Let's throw Donna and Quentin on that list too.  Quentin can always add a bit of fire power and you know that Donna would totally distract Stein, make Barry blush and probably scare Wells.  Actually Donna might just be the secret weapon since she's pinch the cheeks of Cisco, Wally and Jax and then take Iris, Caitlin and Kendra shopping once she sees Kendra's engagement ring.  Who needs a Canary Cry when you have the mother of all squeals?

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wonderwall

wonderwall

I'm assuming if Team Arrow and Team Flash can get people who were never on their teams to begin with (Kendra, Snart, Mick), that Team Arrow can also get Vixen and Constantine, right? They were only acknowledged on Arrow, so they're up for grabs for Team Arrow rather than Flash, I would think. Not to mention if Team Flash can get Wally, who has done nothing but is destined to be a speedster, Team Arrow can get Roy back, right?

 

No, it's strictly LoT, Flash, Arrow. :)

 

And to be fair, Vixen knows Barry too, they sorta kinda met in her mini-series. 

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

No, it's strictly LoT, Flash, Arrow. :)

 

And to be fair, Vixen knows Barry too, they sorta kinda met in her mini-series. 

But Vixen has only worked with Team Arrow.  Constantine isn't available.  He's in hell.  Lol. 

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

I think all of Team Legends would just follow Sara. It's what I'd do. 

That's true.  Sara and Kendra are bonding and with Kendra and Ray a couple, Cisco fawning over her would be awkward and if everyone else from the Waverider was on Team Arrow (soon to be renamed Team Sara) then Stein and Jax would come over as well.  Yeah, I think this is a slam dunk. 

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quarks

quarks

Since Barry has shown us that he's perfectly willing to give his superpowers away, Team Arrow can kidnap Cisco, threaten to kill him, and have Caitlin transfer over his powers to Oliver and Thea. Team Arrow wins. Or so they think, since back at the Arrow Cave, Sara has taken over and she, Captain Cold and Heatwave have transformed it into a disco, Ray and Curtis have gone off to play robot wars while Paul (Curtis' husband) and Kendra bond over drinks and the hell that their lives have become.

 

Meanwhile, Donna, Iris and Linda go shopping and win, because have you SEEN their boots? Victory.

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Lady Calypso

Lady Calypso

Ok, since I kind of enjoy thinking about these types of questions, I'm going to provide a fairly serious answer.

 

Team Flash: Barry, Wells, Joe, Cisco, Caitlin, Iris (and if we want to add potential LoT members), Kendra, Stein, Jax, Snart, Mick

Team Arrow: Oliver, Diggle, Felicity, Thea, Quentin, possibly Malcolm, Curtis, Sara, Ray

 

Ok, so just by me adding in all the regulars, this is the list. This is only factoring in the LoT members choosing the sides based on which show they are more associated with. 

 

So, if we go by numbers, Team Flash has it. That team has superpowers galore with Barry, Cisco, Kendra, Jax, and Stein. Then Snart and Mick have their guns, Wells has his knowledge of weapons with metahumans, and Joe, Iris and Caitlin have been shown to be able to defend themselves. So they have the numbers and the powers, so that should give them the advantage. Plus, Team Arrow might have Malcolm. 

 

But taking a look at Team Arrow, they have the smarts. Team Flash may have Cisco, Barry and Caitlin as scientists, but Team Arrow has been shown to be more successful when coming up with plans. Oliver managed to hold up against a super angry Barry, after all. Diggle and Thea have their own weapons, Quentin would be on a similar level with Joe in terms of skills, and we've seen Felicity win fights before. Then, of course, we have Curtis, who is an engineer and a pretty smart guy. And we have Sara and Ray. Team Arrow has the intelligence advantage. If Barry actually put his smarts to good use and stopped thinking with his heart, then Team Flash would be a strong contender. But Team Arrow? They'd probably win, even with Malcolm on their team. One threat toward Thea and Malcolm would have Team Flash put down pretty quickly. 

 

Even if we got rid of LoT members, Team Arrow would still have an advantage (and a stronger one!) and they'd win, no questions asked. Just get Curtis and Felicity to design a weapon to take down The Flash, take away Cisco's sunglasses of transporation and they'd have a clear victory. 

 

But if we had Team Arrow, Team Flash and Team Legends as their own team, then I think Team Legends would be good competition. I mean, they have Sara, for crying out loud. Mick/Snart could work together, then there's Firestorm, Kendra, and hell, even Rip this past episode did something useful. Team Legends would win against Team Flash, no problem. The only question I would have is if they could beat Team Arrow. It would be pretty darn close, that's for sure. 

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

(edited)

Ok, Team Arrow vs Team Sara (Legends).  We've seen Oliver take down Ray so I'll cross him off the list.  I'll bet on Diggle over Rip.  I think Felicity and Curtis could come up with containment for Stein and Jax.  That leaves Snart, Rory, Sara and Kendra.  We can distract Kendra if Ray looks hurt or in danger.  Maybe Oliver could do an EMP Arrow and knock Ray from the sky so Kendra would have to leave the fight and save him.  There's a good chance that with something shiny and expensive, they could get Snart off their scent.  Rory might go with him out of habit and if Oliver, Thea and Curtis triple teamed Sara, they might be able to take her. Maybe use the voice modulator and make is sound like Laurel is calling her name.  Yes, that would be fighting dirty.   :)

Edited by BkWurm1
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Sakura12

Sakura12

(edited)

Well if Team Arrow's going to fight dirty, then Sara, Snart and Mick would just take Felicity and baby Sara and drop them off at the hidden Time Nursery to distract Oliver and Diggle. Leaving only Curtis and Thea, who would be easily defeated against the rest of the Legends. 

Edited by Sakura12
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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

I think you are still counting out what Donna would do if anyone dared mess with her baby.  Somehow I see her commandeering the Waverider and recruiting Rip's mom and basically the Time Mom would put everyone in time out. 

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FurryFury

FurryFury

Theoretically, Flash and Vibe are so powerful nobody can do anything against them... but then, they can be so, so unbelievably stupid (especially Barry), so it's hard to predict what could happen.

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Trini

Trini

Supergirl should be part of Team Flash. But we can allow Constantine on Team Arrow to even things out. How does that change up things? (Extra credit if we can work in the DEO and ARGUS.)

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FurryFury

FurryFury

(edited)

Do we know what Sara wanted to become before Gambit? Was she going to become a lawyer like her sister? Because I'd never buy it.

 

That Sara/Quentin scene was so heartwarming and cute. Gave me all the feels. I know many Arrow watchers don't like him after seasons 3-4, but I haven't seen most of them, so I still do, and it was great seeing him happy for a bit. 

 

I really want to see their reunion after Laurel's death, either on LoT or Arrow, I don't care.

Edited by FurryFury
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

(edited)

Is it wrong of me to be annoyed that Sheldon's Green Arrow shirt is blue? Shouldn't it be green? Or maybe it should say Blue Arrow? Why does this bother me? It's so dumb and yet I keep thinking about it...so pathetic...

I didn't watch so i have no idea what it looked like. Is it possible that it was a Hawkeye shirt (he wears purple in the comics) and people mistook it for GA?

Edited by Morrigan2575
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bijoux

bijoux

I found the scene in which TerminatorLite comes for Sara and I'd like to know how much the timeline was affected. Does Lance remember her? Do the younger versions of the legends remember her? And were they specific as to when exactly this took place, while Sara was in college or still in high school?

Also, is there a good chanel with these clips so I don't have to bother you guys with questions?

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Sakura12

Sakura12

(edited)

They have amnesia pills that Sara gave to Quentin and probably will to her self so they won't remember anything.

They never said what Sara was studying in college. She mentioned chemistry to Quentin when she was on the Gambit and Sara's mom said Sara always played the a doctor while Laurel played a cop when they were kids.

I always fanwanked that she was majoring in something science related and that's what helped her when Ivo took her.

Edited by Sakura12
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Menrva

Menrva

I didn't watch so i have no idea what it looked like. Is it possible that it was a Hawkeye shirt (he wears purple in the comics) and people mistook it for GA?

I actually paid attention to BBT so I could make sure. Yes, it definitely said Green Arrow. My husband likes the show but I've grown increasingly indifferent/disenchanted with it.
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Team Arrow for the win.  Same reason that Batman

beat Superman in BvS.  Batman has the killer instinct, was motivated to the point of obsession, and didn't stop until he found a way (via kryptonite) to defeat Superman.

 

Barry is still kinda easygoing and doesn't have a killer instinct.  However, Oliver can be ruthless and, if it meant protecting his loved ones and team, he wouldn't stop until he found a way to take down Team Flash.

Edited by tv echo
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