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Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

ArctisTor

By ArctisTor
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Lady Calypso

Lady Calypso

33 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

I still don't understand why Iris and Barry need to be engaged. Barry could have simply said he made a mistake and wish she would take him back and perhaps wait on the engagement. Them getting engaged only after living together for several months is not going to end well and a real separation is on the horizon. That last break up made no sense because it was all for this specific episode.

Because they wrote the last couple of episodes for both shows with the musical in mind, I think. They've been prepping for this musical since the summer, or at least September. So instead of coming up with a more natural arc leading into this musical episode, they had the musical episode all planned out and then thought "Oh, right, we need to get to Point B....how?" and wrote around that. And in their mind, ending the episode with a song followed by a proposal is romantic, I guess. Except for the fact that we've already seen Barry propose to Iris two episodes ago. I think it would have been better if this was the first proposal. 

All I saw with this episode was them testing the waters for a second musical episode. I think they'll actually get it, too. 

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apinknightmare
apinknightmare

I mean, I don't want her in a suit so it's not the "never" in this instance that bothers me, but Marc saying that Felicity specifically would make the notion of superheroics "silly." Why? In this show

Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

And then someone tells him that what he did was okay because of reasons, or that he can't keep feeling guilty, he just has to move forward. Like, no, just...go ahead and feel really guilty for awhile?

SleepDeprived
SleepDeprived

Hey, now... Listen. The practice of proper etiquette during an impromptu wedding officiated by your best friend in a park, right after the funeral of a beloved colleague, is of the utmost importance,

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Lady Calypso

Lady Calypso

38 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

I hate this show for ruining one of my favorite female characters and reducing her to just a love interest. I hate that she no longer has any agency and is at Barry's beck and call. 

To be fair, she never had agency, not even in the beginning. None of these females really do. Except for Sara and sometimes Felicity, but also not really Felicity either. Kara used to, before it became the Mon-El Show. It's a real damn shame, too. 

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wonderwall

wonderwall

6 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Except for Sara and sometimes Felicity, but also not really Felicity either.

What I love about this season is Felicity is getting to make choices again. She chose to try to move on, she chose to use Pandora, she chose to join Helix, she will choose to do whatever she wants to in 519 even though Oliver and TA disagrees. Felicity is allowed to make mistakes this season and I love it. 

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Cleanqueen

Cleanqueen

(edited)
1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

To be fair, she never had agency, not even in the beginning. None of these females really do. Except for Sara and sometimes Felicity, but also not really Felicity either. Kara used to, before it became the Mon-El Show. It's a real damn shame, too. 

I liked Iris in season 1, she had agency IMO. And while they had Barry pinning for her, she still had work to do and actually went to work while also being in a relationship. Not that being the love interest of the protagonist is an issue, but when that is your only role then yes it is.

I dont watch SG so can't comment on that. But out of all the females in the Flarrowverse; Felicity Smoak has been given the most agency. She's been allowed to actually voice her opinions and was allowed to walk away from the hero when he did her wrong and wasn't written to forgive him so easily. She's constantly standing up to Oliver and voicing her opinion. Her voice matters almost all the time. It's why a certain fanbase can't stand her, because she has a voice. 

Edited by Cleanqueen
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ruby24

ruby24

(edited)

I can't shake the thought that they'll want to delay the WestAllen wedding until the Flash 100th episode in Season 5. It just seems like the perfect time for a big event like that where they could have the other show's characters invited and everything.

Edited by ruby24
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calliope1975

calliope1975

I quit Supergirl weeks ago because of the Mon-El focus. I don't necessarily dislike the character (much) but he's not why I liked Supergirl, and his dominance killed the show for me. So, hearing he's going to stick around isn't enticing though it doesn't surprise me. 

I approach rage blackout with the spec of fucking Barry Allen getting the 100th ep wedding that should have been Olicity's. Rage! I need to meditate more. Or at all. :p

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statsgirl

statsgirl

20 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Kara used to, before it became the Mon-El Show. It's a real damn shame, too. 

I think it's because Supergirl used to be on CBS and Berlanti kept a tighter grip on the reins.  Now he's stepped back to concentrate on his other shows and let the CW showrunners handle things.

Kreisburg has A Type.  It's a Young Man Finds His Way Mentored By One or More Older Men.  This applies to Barry but also to Cisco, Wally and Mon El. The older men are Joe, Wells/HR, Barry's Dad/Jay and Hank.  Women are love interests with no real impact on the story.  Remember Iris and her mother? That ended up being about Joe and Wally.

Supergirl had strong female relationships in s1 so the women are still around except for Cat but Alex has been reduced to her relationship with Maggie and giving Kara pep talks.  I wonder if one of the reasons James has so little to do is because he's already grown up and Kreisburg isn't interested in adult men except as mentors.

Sara has a lot of agency and so does Amaya, maybe that's Klemmer.  Felicity has some agency because they know she's important to what Arrow is. But from the time they made Iris a reporter, she never had any role other than Love Interest.  Maybe if they had made her a psychology grad student instead of a reporter as they originally planned but then, they gave Caitlin a job that was necessary to Team Flash and for the past two seasons she's mostly been a LI.

4 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

I approach rage blackout with the spec of fucking Barry Allen getting the 100th ep wedding that should have been Olicity's. Rage! I need to meditate more. Or at all. :p

Yep, me too. And they'll get it because The Flash is their special snowflake.

4 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

A 0.9 for a much-hyped "special" episode? Yikes!

So no soda for them now?

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

31 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

I can't shake the thought that they'll want to delay the WestAllen wedding until the Flash 100th episode in Season 5. It just seems like the perfect time for a big event like that where they could have the other show's characters invited and everything.

Hey why not just have it for the big four part crossover and really rub our noses in it, lol.

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Cleanqueen

Cleanqueen

52 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

I can't shake the thought that they'll want to delay the WestAllen wedding until the Flash 100th episode in Season 5. It just seems like the perfect time for a big event like that where they could have the other show's characters invited and everything.

LOL that's what Olicity fans said and their couple got engaged in season 4. I don't think it'll happen and as a fan of a couple I'd definitely not want the wedding during a crossover event where it wouldn't get focused. They already shared that proposal with another couple getting screen time, the wedding should be theirs only.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Darkness Will Return to The Flash & Supergirl After That Musical Extravaganza
by LAUREN PIESTER | Tue, Mar 21, 2017 9:00 PM
http://www.eonline.com/news/837757/darkness-will-return-to-the-flash-supergirl-after-that-musical-extravaganza

Quote

"WestAllen is safe until the end of the season as far as their relationship turmoil," [Candice Patton] says, but can't promise that wedding is in the near future. "I don't think we'll be seeing wedding bells any time soon just because we've got to deal with Iris' impending death and those other two prophecies. Central City's a mess right now. They've got other things to focus on, but it's nice to know that they are back on track, and hopefully can stay that way for a long time." 
*  *  *
On the Supergirl front, Kara and Mon-El (Chris Wood) are back together, but they're not quite as solid as WestAllen. In last night's episode of Supergirl, Kara discovered that Mon-El had been lying about his identity, and is actually Daxam royalty, meaning he and Kara have a kind of forbidden love. 

"Their timing is not the greatest," [Melissa] Benoist says. "Another wrench is going to be thrown into their relationship, an obstacle that they'll have to face. She's finally forgiven him, but now of course, Daxamites come and they shake things up." 
*  *  *
"Something tragic is going to happen at the end of the season. It has to," Patton tells us. "Whether that's my own life, Iris' own life, or someone else's is yet to be determined, but we're not going to get out of the season without someone losing their life or being badly injured or something." 

"It will be major," agrees executive producer Aaron Helbing. "I mean, I think the thing is that in the rest of the season, you'll see Iris be badass, and you'll see Barry do whatever it takes, and he'll make mistakes, and he'll question who he is as a person. It's going to impact you, regardless of what happens, you will feel it deeply. I'll put it that way." 
*  *  *
Helbing also tells us that "the goal is save Iris no matter what it costs, and everybody's on board." Hopefully, that means that the tragedy coming at the end of the season is not Iris' death, but we don't particularly want anyone else to die either. We just might never be happy. 

Along with this tragedy comes the true identity of Savitar, which Patton describes as "quite a shocker." Helbing says that the show is about to really get into what has caused Savitar to be so angry at Barry. 

"We'll see Savitar pretty soon, and that's kind of when we pump on the gas and you're going to figure out why he hates Barry so much," he tells us. "I mean, it's really going to hit Barry. He's a bad dude. I think he's the worst villain that we've had, and that Barry's faced, so it's going to be tremendously impactful." 

Edited by tv echo
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kismet

kismet

2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Because they wrote the last couple of episodes for both shows with the musical in mind, I think. They've been prepping for this musical since the summer, or at least September. So instead of coming up with a more natural arc leading into this musical episode, they had the musical episode all planned out and then thought "Oh, right, we need to get to Point B....how?" and wrote around that. And in their mind, ending the episode with a song followed by a proposal is romantic, I guess. Except for the fact that we've already seen Barry propose to Iris two episodes ago. I think it would have been better if this was the first proposal. 

All I saw with this episode was them testing the waters for a second musical episode. I think they'll actually get it, too. 

I totally agree. I really think they should have kept this musical proposal as the first & original proposal. I think it also would have made the break-up last episode seem more realistic, since ending an engagement is a big thing. But people on the precipice of engagement realizing that despite there being a deep love might have different expectation and realities, and can they really meld together. They could have had the conversations and moments they had earlier this season without a proposal. To go full steam into a proposal you only intend to reverse for plot, is really kind of dumb. especially if your break-up is only going to last a very short time.

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kismet

kismet

2 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I think it's more upsetting that Mon-El gets all this screentime and POV and Iris still hasn't. That shows how much of a boys club these shows really are. 

It really is interesting for me, I have basically watched a few episodes of Flash & SG this season, and yet I feel like I understand more about Mon-El in the 1 or 2 episodes I have seen than Iris in the 2 seasons I've watched her. That's just a shame. But it is an interesting outsider perspective to notice how the show handles characters when you don't watch them on a weekly basis. Sometimes it helps to step outside and see that POVs are not objectively or even subjectively similar in weight or depth.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Another media writer making the Felicity comparison...

The Flash Has Added A House Actor In An Intriguing Role
BY MICK JOEST  Mar. 21, 2017
http://www.cinemablend.com/television/1638190/the-flash-has-added-a-house-actor-in-an-intriguing-role

Quote

It sounds like The Flash is getting its own Felicity Smoak, and while many of you will undoubtedly have different opinions about how that would work, there are more important questions to ask. Whoever Anne Dudek's Tracy is, there's a good chance that she's going to be a key factor for the action of Season 4. With her role recurring and her introduction coming just 3 episodes before the finale, you have to think we're getting introduced to her this close to Season 4 for a reason. Considering every finale of The Flash so far has led into the next season premise, it only makes sense that Tracy Brand is a big part of what's in store for next year.

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

This was retweeted by Blake Neely - I just downloaded free sheet music for Runnin' Home to You and Super Friend (you get them as PDF files)...

Edited by tv echo
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way2interested

way2interested

Just now, Velocity23 said:
Things are gonna get interesting ship wise on Supergirl. 

With both Mon-El and Lena sticking around? Most definitely.

1 minute ago, lemotomato said:
Looks like they're starting to announce cast promotions for next season. I wonder when Arrow is going to make theirs?

 I wonder if they're still finalizing who to keep/who they can afford to keep for next year.

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tv echo

tv echo

Arrow portion was posted in the Spoilers Only thread...

Ask Ausiello: Spoilers on Grey's, Bones, Arrow, Grimm, Once, Bates Motel, Hawaii Five-0, Walking Dead and More
By Michael Ausiello / March 22 2017, 10:34 AM PDT
http://tvline.com/2017/03/22/bones-series-finale-447-mystery-spoilers-season-12/

Quote

Question: Is the only story for Supergirl‘s James this year the Guardian one? Is there a chance he gets a new love interest? —Daschell
Ausiello: Though he was guarded with details, showrunner Andrew Kreisberg told us at PaleyFest, “There’s a big James episode coming up that we’re starting to shoot this week. It’s, like, the biggest James story we’ve ever done. We’re excited, Mehcad [Brooks] is excited…. It’s going to be great.”

Question: Now that Supergirl‘s Kara has been fired, is there a chance we will get to see her doing freelance journalism? —Natasha
Ausiello: The human job sitch “is a struggle, for sure,” Melissa Benoist acknowledges, “but that’s her calling. So it would not be her story without more journalism.That’s what she wants to do the most with her life, so you’ll see more of that, for sure.” As EP Kreisberg shares, “Kara might not be out of a job as long as people think. You can’t keep a good writer down.”

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TwistedandBored

TwistedandBored

10 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

Iris' big part of the musical ep was to be a love interest. Wow so different from her usual role. Except not that's her entire purpose on that show. She's treated the worst out all the female characters in the Arrowverse. Everything is about the men in her life. She never gets a POV. 

Iris does occasionally get her own POV but it is a limited one.

Anyways, as much as I love her and Barry together, I hope we get to see more of her POV before they do whatever they have plans for this season. I have a feeling something will happen to Iris. They are not gonna kill her but a different Iris or some BS like that. 

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kismet

kismet

I'm sensing a coma for Iris. It's something bad for her coming. I would not even be surprised if they fake kill her, send her away for her own good. Or maybe actually kill her, and have resurrect her back to life next season, only altered. Or this is the perfect scenario for amnesia.

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ruby24

ruby24

Oh god, please not amnesia. I think someone else will be sacrificed. Like HR. They made a point of saying he DIDN'T die, which probably means he will volunteer to be a hero and go out for good.

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Trini

Trini

18 hours ago, wonderwall said:

So yes, I'd love to see a list of bullet points here when you wake up.
 

Posted my thoughts in the Flash forum. Sorry, no bullets!

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Trini

Trini

9 hours ago, Cleanqueen said:

I hate this show for ruining one of my favorite female characters and reducing her to just a love interest. I hate that she no longer has any agency and is at Barry's beck and call. 

They still need to do waaaaay better, but I think this exaggeration is untrue. Iris is definitely the emotional heart of the show, but they have shown her journalism and agency more this season. But it's like baby steps. ::SIIIIIIIIIIGH::

Since you mentioned "beck and call", it made me realize that pretty much ALL the supporting characters fill this role for Barry/the Flash. (He is the lead/central character.) So I don't know if Iris is any worse off than anyone else in that regard.

 

8 hours ago, calliope1975 said:

I approach rage blackout with the spec of fucking Barry Allen getting the 100th ep wedding that should have been Olicity's. Rage! I need to meditate more. Or at all. :p

I guess I don't agree that things happening on a show take away from another different show - even in a shared universe. Unless a character switches shows.

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statsgirl

statsgirl

(edited)

It shouldn't, but it's about viewer expectations.  We really, really wanted Oliver and Felicity to get married on the 100th episode and instead they were miles and miles apart for stupid plot reasons and Laurel was the one getting ready to marry Oliver.  If Barry and Iris get it when Arrow didn't, it will be salt in the wound.

Edited by statsgirl
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kismet

kismet

(edited)

I think I was more annoyed when I found out that 100th episode was written and planned around the Comics part of Arrow, than the actual show. I know as Arrow fan, that episode was not written for me. I felt it then, and it was confirmed later. And that was the whopping dose of salt in the wound. The Olicity wedding was just a pipe dream, and although it disappointed me to not have it. I was more hurt by other aspects of the show that seemed to forget a lot of its own 5 years.

I won't begrudge WestAllen their wedding hopes and dreams, but I definitely won't be waiting around for those Save the Date magnets anytime soon. And I don't recommend it for their fans either. I think they will tinker and manipulate the WestAllen fans for as long as it is profitable to them.

Edited by kismet
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Trini

Trini

47 minutes ago, kismet said:

I won't begrudge WestAllen their wedding hopes and dreams, but I definitely won't be waiting around for those Save the Date magnets anytime soon. And I don't recommend it for their fans either. I think they will tinker and manipulate the WestAllen fans for as long as it is profitable to them.

I wasn't even expecting them to be engaged this early at all. So now I don't even know when they'd do the wedding. But the show has generally had Barry + Iris reach relationship milestones at a relatively fast pace. One thing that is hopeful is that the producers are also fans of the relationship, so that may cut down on tinkering. (And that "network mandated break-up" is now out of the way.)

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LeighAn

LeighAn

24 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I would love a WestAllen cross over wedding with a scene of Olicity babies fussing and Barry giving Oliver judgey looks! Would be adorable!!!!!

I'm curious if Arrow will still even be on air once Flash gets to their 100th cause that would mean it would have to reach a season 7 while Stephens only contracted for 6 isn't he? And I go back and forth on if he will renew his contract or do a Nina or Blake and say adios. 

My gut says that while his wife and daughter live in another country and her approaching school age I'm leaning on he won't renew but other days I think he'll try pushing the show out as long as Smallville. 

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Mellowyellow

Mellowyellow

2 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

I'm curious if Arrow will still even be on air once Flash gets to their 100th cause that would mean it would have to reach a season 7 while Stephens only contracted for 6 isn't he? And I go back and forth on if he will renew his contract or do a Nina or Blake and say adios. 

My gut says that while his wife and daughter live in another country and her approaching school age I'm leaning on he won't renew but other days I think he'll try pushing the show out as long as Smallville. 

They can guest star!!!! Less likely for bad sh#t to happen to them if the show is off air as well (if they do end on a happy Olicity note)! 

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

34 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

I'm curious if Arrow will still even be on air once Flash gets to their 100th cause that would mean it would have to reach a season 7 while Stephens only contracted for 6 isn't he? And I go back and forth on if he will renew his contract or do a Nina or Blake and say adios. 

My gut says that while his wife and daughter live in another country and her approaching school age I'm leaning on he won't renew but other days I think he'll try pushing the show out as long as Smallville. 

I thought he's there thru season 7 with his contract.

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