Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[Velocity23]

I mean this could serve as Sara getting her final goodbye with her sister. I just dont see them pushing this into next season. 

[Primal Slayer]

It probably will be but i just know i will be disappointed in the end.

[wonderwall]

Does anyone remember which episode Guggenheim was referring to when he was talking about bringing in a character and doing them in a way that's unexpected? I thought it was the penultimate, but maybe it's the finale.

[insomniadreams88]

Just now, wonderwall said:

Does anyone remember which episode Guggenheim was referring to when he was talking about bringing in a character and doing them in a way that's unexpected? I thought it was the penultimate, but maybe it's the finale.

I think it was the penultimate ep for the unexpected bit about a character, but I think there was also a quote about the finale in the same interview? 

[wonderwall]

Just now, insomniadreams88 said:

I think it was the penultimate ep for the unexpected bit about a character, but I think there was also a quote about the finale in the same interview? 

If they're bringing in Snart/Laurel in the finale... I wonder who Guggenheim was talking about then. I assume it can't be them. Hmmm

[insomniadreams88]

2 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

If they're bringing in Snart/Laurel in the finale... I wonder who Guggenheim was talking about then. I assume it can't be them. Hmmm

Found the interview here.

Quote

“We, just yesterday, made an offer to an actor to reprise their role from one of the other shows in the season finale of Legends,” Guggenheim teased. “Oh, and in the penultimate episode we’re gonna have — I can’t be specific about this, but it’s one of the most fun things I think we’ve ever done on the show — a character from one of the other shows on Legends in a way that you’ve never seen before, you may never see again, but will, I think, just send fans into squeals of joy.”

So I guess the "offer to an actor" was KC? Meaning it has to be someone else for the penultimate episode?

[wonderwall]

5 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Found the interview here.

So I guess the "offer to an actor" was KC? Meaning it has to be someone else for the penultimate episode?

Reprising their role means that this character either died or left... So that narrows it down.

KC, WM already got an offer so they're out... 

Who else died/left? Moira, Roy, Hawkgirl, Hawkman (is that his name? lol), Rip (again?), Tommy?

Edited February 21, 2017 by wonderwall

[insomniadreams88]

3 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

Reprising their role means that this character either died or left... So that narrows it down.

KC, WM already got an offer so they're out... 

Who else died/left? Moira, Roy, Hawkgirl, Hawkman (is that his name? lol), Rip (again?), Tommy?

That interview was from January, so I'm assuming that's why it's not until now we learned about KC returning in the finale? 

[statsgirl]

If it is KC, that might also explain that "doing them in a way that's unexpected" part.

[BkWurm1]

I'm expecting it either to be Sara having to choose to let Laurel die in order to beat the LoD or that she's faced with Black Siren joining the Doom troop.  

[Velocity23]

[BkWurm1]

I swear they shrunk her skirt in that poster.  

[Starfish35]

21 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I swear they shrunk her skirt in that poster.  

I thought it was just me!

[Primal Slayer]

I miss the days when they did actual group photos.

[bijoux]

Ahaha. Even I can see it and I've only really watched her on this year's crossover. I do like that they have two ladies in the poster and that they put non-superpowered Alex in the front. Aces.

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

I swear they shrunk her skirt in that poster.  

 

1 hour ago, Starfish35 said:

I thought it was just me!

They totally shrunk the skirt. 

[Chaser]

Wow. That poster is terrible. Alex looks great but that pose on Kara is awful. Going for the butt pose instead of emphasizing the 'S' is ouch.

[catrox14]

This is so disappointing to see what they are doing with Supergirl. :(

[jay741982]

Yep they have changed a bit of history romantic wise for Kara. Rewriting the way SHE ended it with Jimmy her saying that she keeps putting her heart out there to get stepped on ticked me off a little. Her literally saying Mon-el is a dudebro and not someone she usually likes but oh he's so making her change her ways SMH. 

5 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

This is so disappointing to see what they are doing with Supergirl. :(

[Mellowyellow]

I'm happy they put Alex on the poster!!!! Love Alex!

I'm trying to work out why I DON'T care for the Kara/Mon El romance. I like both characters, I even like both actors (I got over the fact that he was EVILKai on TVD) but I cannot give a flying fig about them as a couple! I should since I actually like them individually! Instead I find myself texting during their dodgy romantic scenes. Everytime I watch them I think "Why am I getting this but you won't give me Olicity?"

[Starfish35]

3 hours ago, Chaser said:

Wow. That poster is terrible. Alex looks great but that pose on Kara is awful. Going for the butt pose instead of emphasizing the 'S' is ouch.

Well, and that orange lens flare across the top of her thigh makes it almost look like she's wearing some sort of garter? Sort of at first look? Just me?  Ok then.

[Chaser]

I didn't notice at first but now I see it. Also, I thought SG was wearing a crop top because of the color on the belt. 

This poster sucks.

[Sakura12]

Did they really need the ass shot on a poster of two women? Women do not and have never stood like that in real life. If she's Supergirl shouldn't we see her crest? I'm sure all the EP's think this is an empowering poster for us womenfolk. 

I think Supergirl really lost their empowering women traits when they moved the CW. All Alex and Kara talk about now is their love lives and they make Kara fall for an arrogant, bland guy with a caveman mentality who said he liked it better when he objectified women because he's cute. 

[jay741982]

Sadly that's how it's in a lot of shows I've seen. Guy can be unforgivable dicks but if they are cute they can still get the girl. 

[kismet]

Saw Lego-Batman today, Holy Batman that movie is AMAZING!!!!! SERIOUSLY HANDS DOWN the BEST DC movie in years. Probably up there as one of the best superhero movies in recent years. Ironman is my fav cinematic superhero but even I loved the password. 

The movie was just pure fun with good messages. Even the character development was on point. It was so good that I think if you hated legos &/or superheroes, you would still enjoy the movie. 

Highly recommend it :)

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, Starfish35 said:

Well, and that orange lens flare across the top of her thigh makes it almost look like she's wearing some sort of garter? Sort of at first look? Just me?  Ok then.

I suspect the lens flare is there to hide the photoshopping done to shrink the skirt.  

[kismet]

Haven't seen LoT yet, so have no clue about KC.

But I do wonder if they will undo Havenrock or find a way to stop it. Cuz if DDs trajectory changes perhaps not all those people have to die. I don't think it would change Arrow too much, now that Rory is gone. 

And OQ can be mayor with or without DDs s4 plot. He was headed that way anyway, they could probably just make it about a tribute to his Mom or something. 

[statsgirl]

4 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

I'm happy they put Alex on the poster!!!! Love Alex!

I'm trying to work out why I DON'T care for the Kara/Mon El romance. I like both characters, I even like both actors (I got over the fact that he was EVILKai on TVD) but I cannot give a flying fig about them as a couple! I should since I actually like them individually! Instead I find myself texting during their dodgy romantic scenes. Everytime I watch them I think "Why am I getting this but you won't give me Olicity?"

I'm hoping it's because he'll be gone at the end of the season, deciding to go back and help his people or whatever, so they can go all in now on Kara/Mon El now while they're pacing Olicity.  But with my luck, he'll stay her True Love till the show ends.

[BkWurm1]

14 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I'm hoping it's because he'll be gone at the end of the season, deciding to go back and help his people or whatever, so they can go all in now on Kara/Mon El now while they're pacing Olicity.  But with my luck, he'll stay her True Love till the show ends.

Yeah, I expect him to leave as well, but that doesn't mean he won't keep coming back, lol.  

[Mellowyellow]

Who is the leading lady on Flash? Iris is the sole LI but Caitlin gets to go to Gorilla City and crossovers!

[manbearpig]

9 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I think Supergirl really lost their empowering women traits when they moved the CW. All Alex and Kara talk about now is their love lives and they make Kara fall for an arrogant, bland guy with a caveman mentality who said he liked it better when he objectified women because

I agree with this, but at the same time, for me there's as many interesting women on Supergirl as there are on the other three shows combined at the minute, especially now that Thea is basically no where to be seen. The Luthor women, Maggie and M'gann have been nice additions to the Supergirl cast even if I still miss Cat Grant (I feel like they wrote a lot of the more empowering/feminist moments with that character or just talks that discussed those issues, and now they don't seem to go there as often in quite the same way). Alex's focus on her love life doesn't bother me at all though, especially since she was all business all the time for so long. 

I mean, on the other shows I love Felicity and Sara, think Emaya's been fun so far, and...there are women on The Flash, too? I really like Iris, but I think that is mostly because of CP's acting. 

[wonderwall]

5 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Who is the leading lady on Flash? Iris is the sole LI but Caitlin gets to go to Gorilla City and crossovers!

Flash has no leading lady because it manages to treat all of them like utter crap. 

While Iris is the love interest, she gets shafted in every other sense. She pretty much has no function outside of her relationships with men.

And even though Caitlin gets to participate in the crossovers and other stuff like that, the writers can only write her to be a love interest to secondary characters and manage to make her the only one whose powers make her evil... Don't see that with all the men with powers. 

These writers are super misogynistic. 

Edited February 22, 2017 by wonderwall

[BkWurm1]

And really the only reason Caitlin got to go to E2 and Gorilla City was as Grod's former love interest  AND Julian's potential one, lol.  Double duty.  She's lucky she has a handy profession on the show or she'd probably be written even worse.

[Sakura12]

The women on the Flash are there to be rewards for men. Wally never once thought of moving to Earth 2 for Jessie it was only about what he wanted. Julian won Caitlin after being an asshole to everyone. And Iris is only around to tell Barry how amazing he is. 

[BkWurm1]

21 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

The women on the Flash are there to be rewards for men. Wally never once thought of moving to Earth 2 for Jessie it was only about what he wanted. Julian won Caitlin after being an asshole to everyone. And Iris is only around to tell Barry how amazing he is. 

Yeah, I kept waiting for them to at least suggest Wally move to E2 but nope, never even comes up.  

In regards to Julian, he may have been an ass to everyone, but Caitlin did kidnap, beat him up and nearly kill him.  So I'll give them a pass on that one, lol.  Though honestly, I'd give them a pass on the accent alone!

Edited February 22, 2017 by BkWurm1

[tv echo]

This article also discusses Arrow, Flash and LoT...

Supergirl season 2 and the love interest problem
Caroline Preece   Feb 22, 2017
http://www.denofgeek.com/uk/tv/supergirl/47460/supergirl-season-2-and-the-love-interest-problem

Quote

“Things were a lot easier on Daxam when I objectified women and didn’t care about anything.” That’s a real line from a real episode of Supergirl - TV’s most female-friendly genre series - during which season two’s romantic lead complains about his ongoing affection for the show’s heroine.
*  *  *
Most superhero series feature a main, over-arching love interest for their protagonist - Lana on Smallville; Iris on The Flash; Felicity on Arrow - and this tends to remain more or less static for the duration.

But then something the DC/CW universe has always been good at is reacting quickly to fan pressure. When it became clear that Laurel wasn’t working as the One True Pairing for Oliver in Arrow’s first season, she was quickly repurposed and Felicity promoted, canon be damned. Whether that’s a good or a bad thing depends entirely on who you ask, but back in season two it was definitely a sensible move.

Then there was Iris, who was unpopular in the first season mainly due to her treatment by The Flash writers. Kept in the dark and basically written into an inferior Lois Lane-esque story arc of not being able to work out that her adopted brother and pet superhero were the same person despite journalistic cred, she’s better now but still criminally underused.
*  *  *
The bottom line is that sometimes an initial conception isn’t the best way to go. Good television shows have a clear idea about where they’re heading from one season to the next, but great television shows aren’t afraid to change the plan if something isn’t working.

Legends Of Tomorrow is a great example of this, ditching Hawkman and Hawkgirl after a half-hearted attempt at a love triangle with Ray, and pairing (albeit briefly) Sara and Snart following fan support.
*  *  *
These things are hard to get right, and I certainly wouldn’t say anything against Chris Wood’s performance as Mon-El. The trouble is that, unlike with James, the show is doubling down on a pairing that doesn’t make much sense to a large portion of the audience and is overshadowing other, potentially better, stories.

Edited February 22, 2017 by tv echo

[Velocity23]

Tuesday ratings

[BkWurm1]

How does that compare to their last new episodes?

[Morrigan2575]

It does seem as though LoT is dependent upon The Flash but, not by that much. 

Huh, this week's rating trifecta will be interesting. 

2 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

How does that compare to their last new episodes?

Down by a tenth for each, same as Supergirl.

2/7 Finals

Flash: 1.1/2.91

LoT: 0.7/1.77

Edited February 22, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[Velocity23]

I wonder if the CW expected more from the Flash with their Grodd episodes. 

[BkWurm1]

The actual episode was kind of a let down but people tuning in wouldn't have known it.  Still, they have to know any kind of a break in the schedule hurts ratings.

[ruby24]

I think James will be written off after this season. He's been absent from too many episodes, it's obvious they don't have any real use for him. Personally I think he AND Mon-El should go and they should just keep Kara single for the duration, unless/until they come across a really great guest star at some point who happens to have amazing chemistry with Benoist, and then they can work that in somehow.

But bringing in a male character with the express purpose of being her "love interest" (as Mon-El clearly was), just isn't working. The writing for it is bad, and they more or less followed similar steps as they did with James last year (without the even worse lack of chemistry those two had). If she's going to have a long-term relationship it needs to be with someone who's written first off as their own character and not just a stock love interest. I think that's the main problem.

As for The Flash ratings, again, any kind of break in the schedule always puts a halt on any ratings momentum. They need to figure out a way to deal with that, somehow. You'd think they would have learned by now.

Edited February 22, 2017 by ruby24

[Velocity23]

I mean people tuned into the Earth 2 episodes 2 parter. It had higher ratings than the flarrow crossover at the time.

They set up a similar thing this season but with Grodd. But i don't think Grodd ever had such a pull with people

[BkWurm1]

Yeah, agreed, neither James nor Mon-el really work.  But I'm less certain James is going away.  I'm more inclined that making him Gaurdian was the show's way to rehab him as a future love interest by building up his character while he is no longer a love interest.  But now I think they intend to pivot back to him as a love interest next season once they feel he's more of an equal.  I don't think it's going to work but that's never stopped them from trying.

3 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

I mean people tuned into the Earth 2 episodes 2 parter. It had higher ratings than the flarrow crossover at the time.

They set up a similar thing this season but with Grodd. But i don't think Grodd ever had such a pull with people

I was looking forward to Grodd and next week looks much better than what we got this week.  So maybe they will still see a numbers bump.

Edited February 22, 2017 by BkWurm1

[ruby24]

I don't know about that- I think the total lack of chemistry between him and Melissa makes that pretty difficult to revisit. But they seem pretty opposed to the idea of her being a single career woman, so maybe you're right and they'll try again.

[statsgirl]

I thought that there was a lot of chemistry between James and Kara for about 3 episodes and then the writing pushed them apart for bad trope reasons.  The actors followed the writing cues and the out-of-nowhere break-up at the start of the season happened.

31 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

 I'm more inclined that making him Guardian was the show's way to rehab him as a future love interest by building up his character while he is no longer a love interest.  But now I think they intend to pivot back to him as a love interest next season once they feel he's more of an equal.  I don't think it's going to work but that's never stopped them from trying.

Yeah, they're doing stuff like having him watch her as she walks away, which is TV/movie code for "I like you romantically".

But I don't think Kara will ever have a length-of-the-show love interest for sexist reasons.  It was okay for Clark to be stronger and super in comparison to Lois because men can be stronger and better than their female partners but a lot of people wouldn't accept the reverse.  Kara even said it in the show this season explaining why Mon El is the only guy she could contemplate being with.

[Starfish35]

I don't know what they're doing with James.  It does feel like he's on the Laurel track though, being rushed into a superhero role, being missing from entire episodes.  I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually just sent him back to Metropolis.  

But I am also not sure Mon-El is going to be around past this season either.  Not because of any kind of comic canon, but because I keep thinking about that interview Chris Wood did early on where he talked about being asked to "come over and play with us for awhile."  It just sounded short-term.  

The problem I had with Kara/James in season one was that she always just felt a little too young/immature for him.  Between her giddy crush and him with his Superman crush that I wasn't sure just transferred to Kara....it wasn't a NOTP like Lauriver but it always felt awkward to say the least.  

Edited February 22, 2017 by Starfish35

[kismet]

11 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

The problem I had with Kara/James in season one was that she always just felt a little too young/immature for him.  Between her giddy crush and him with his Superman crush that I wasn't sure just transferred to Kara....it wasn't a NOTP like Lauriver but it always felt awkward to say the least.  

I had a similar feeling. No opinion on s2 since I havent really watched It this season.

[Velocity23]

[yellowfred]

Personally, I think the direction they're going with James this season is kind of symptomatic of the shift towards making it more purely a crime-fighting show, rather than about balancing crime-fighting with a civilian identity.  That's actually been sort of a general trend of the Arrow-verse for a while.  Like, it's probably most notable on Supergirl, since it was such an abrupt change, but both Arrow and The Flash have been heading that way for a while. 

That's not necessarily a complaint.  Legends is probably my favorite of the DCTV shows at the moment, and none of them have civilian identities to balance.  Plus, I'm familiar with enough superhero stories to know how repetitive those plotlines can get.  At the same time, though, it doesn't leave a lot of room to give narrative weight to characters who don't fall on the crime-fighting side of the story, which I think is unfortunate.