Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[apinknightmare]

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

“We are incredibly blessed to have the most passionate fans out there. The people who tweet about Arrow and Reddit and Snapchat and all the different ways that people express their frustrations with Arrow and their love for Arrow, they are the ones who have kept us afloat.”

Just a suggestion, but maybe you should stop making fun of and antagonizing those fans and their passions then? 

[dtissagirl]

18 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Oh Guggie. Eventually hate turns into disinterest and apathy. So how does one measure viewer apathy these days? Do folks take to Twitter or Tumblr or FB just to say they don't care anymore? I doubt it. They just stop discussing things.

I track the artsy tags on Tumblr pretty closely, because I like looking at the pretties. Arrow has had two very busy fanart tags, #arrowedit and #olicityedit. I don't have real stats, but the amount of posts has declined something HUGE in both this season [O/F tag more than, obviously].

And it's when a show stops inspiring the transformative part of fandom that I know the apathy has set, because transformative fandom's superpower is ignoring canon and doing its thing regardless of how garbage fire canon is. But the lack of interest in the show is turning into a lack of interest in making gifsets and other assorted fanart. It's sad for the pretties.

[Cleanqueen]

53 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Oh Guggie. Eventually hate turns into disinterest and apathy. So how does one measure viewer apathy these days? Do folks take to Twitter or Tumblr or FB just to say they don't care anymore? I doubt it. They just stop discussing things. I suspect ratings will go up because of the crossover and curiosity about the 100th, but after that if things continue to be all about the Boobs, and not!OTA and love uninterests, apathy will become the order of the day. YMMV JMHO etc. 

oh you'd be more surprised, a lot of folks who said they hate the show spend more time talking about it then those who apparently do. Mainly on twitter. I don't check other platforms.

Edited November 28, 2016 by Cleanqueen

[statsgirl]

I think that there is an unhappiness bump during which people spend a lot of time talking about how unhappy they are and basically "troubling deaf heaven with bootless cries".  And then when they figure out that no one in the show's TPTB is listening to them, they give up  move on to other fandoms.

It rarely, in my experience, translates to a sudden ratings drop.  Many casual viewers will just keep watching because it's a habit and the viewership just slowly declines.

[calliope1975]

4 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

But the lack of interest in the show is turning into a lack of interest in making gifsets and other assorted fanart. It's sad for the pretties.

Plus, all the good fanfic has been decreasing or WIP have been abandoned. It makes me so sad. I'm reading stuff that normally I would nope out on within the first paragraph, but now I'm desperate.  

[catrox14]

49 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

oh you'd be more surprised, a lot of folks who said they hate the show spend more time talking about it then those who apparently do. Mainly on twitter. I don't check other platforms.

I'm not talking about people hate-watching and tweeting their hate-watching. I'm talking about when hate-watching becomes unsatisfying and eventually it will. At that point hate-watching turns to apathy. One can only live on hate for so long, IMO. Or they are just trolling for the sake of trolling. For me, there comes a point when I cease to care which happens after the hate-watching. Like after a long hiatus, I just stop watching unless I have a compelling reason.

[LeighAn]

How (not) heartfelt and touching Marc. 

[Lokiberry]

For me, I quit watching (again) a few episodes ago, ostensibly out of disgust over Baby Sara, but really because the straws kept piling on until the camel said, "Fuck you".  I first stopped watching when they fridged Sara, and didn't come back until the following season. My eyeballs might have returned, but my goodwill didn't. The bad writing, unnecessary relationship wangst, the newbies, and finally "upgrading" Baby Sara for a Precious Boy Child have all upset me so much and for so long that I don't care enough about the show to deal with it anymore. I'll watch the crossover because it's connected to the other shows that I am watching; after that I'm done.

It's not because I'm angry. I was angry, I rage quit when Sara died. Now I'm just tired.

[Trini]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BNXdB7Bjx8h/

I kinda actually do want to see Barry and Kara have an eating contest.  :-)

[way2interested]

So the beginning of the crossover was...pretty lacking, to say the least. I honestly thought that it would be A scene rather than the snippet. 

I did enjoy the Supergirl episode though. I think I liked last year's midseason finale more, but this one had some good moments.

[Morrigan2575]

What do you mean by snippet? 

[way2interested]

2 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

What do you mean by snippet? 

I just mean that the final scene with Kara, Barry, and Cisco at the end of Supergirl was really quick and short. I think it was said that the scene would be recapped/replayed in the Flash episode, so it might either be a snippet of the full scene "to be continued on The Flash" as the bumper said or it's just a really short scene.

[Morrigan2575]

Ah OK, thanks. I wondered if you meant it wasn't actually in the episode but appeared as part of the "next time on" preview or something.

I don't watch Supergirl and didn't bother to watch this episode since I knew the only crossover would be a quick scene of Barry/Cisco recruiting Kara.

I wonder what the General Audience will make of this "four night crossover"? Will it turn people off thinking they got played watching a standard Supergirl episode?

I doubt we'll ever know, probably can't be measured. Mostly just a curiosity, if people felt like they got played/bait and switch

Edited November 29, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[way2interested]

Honestly, idk either. I know I thought it was really abrupt and random and not very baiting to continue on, even though I watch all of the shows and I'm going to watch anyway. I do think it's kind of a bait and switch in a way if someone came into this episode thinking it was really going to kick off the crossover when it barely did anything.

I think it wouldn't affect people who actually planned on watching all of them, but it might affect people on the edge of trying the other shows in general for the crossover bump effect. Like, I don't know if the ending would draw in the Supergirl people enough to watch the Flash or the Flash people to watch Supergirl once it comes back.

[catrox14]

Yeah, I was like okay...when is the crossover gonna start.....:/. I mean I like Supergirl and all but I did expect a lot more

[bijoux]

Here it is. So they actually let Cisco not be super okay with Barry for a while? I didn't expect that.

[Starfish35]

Yeah, calling it a four-night crossover was really misleading.  It's really three nights and a teaser.  Not that it wasn't a good episode, but....yeah.  I did feel like the advertising might have created some false expectations for tonight's episode. 

However, Kara and Barry are still adorable together. :)

Edited November 29, 2016 by Starfish35

[DeadZeus]

I knew something was off in the trailers when i noticed Barry is the one discovering the aliens and asking ppl for help, seemed odd that would start on Supergirl. But good to know i don't have to watch Supergirl to understand the crossover.

[Starfish35]

Well, Cisco's portal does appear twice earlier in the episode.  Once near the beginning while Kara and company are all at Thanksgiving dinner, and then once while Supergirl and Hank Henshaw are fighting, providing a convenient distraction for Supergirl.  But Barry and Cisco don't actually succeed in coming through until that scene at the end.  And, Kara's exclamation to Barry aside, no one seems to understand what's happening when the portals show up.  So it's not really plot relevant to the crossover at all. 

Edited November 29, 2016 by Starfish35

[Mellowyellow]

Just finished watching Supergirl. My gawd their promotion of the crossover is dodgy. I watch Supergirl anyway so it doesn't matter but the episode had nothing to do with the crossover.

And they set it up so Barry is going to ask for help from Supergirl, help to fight Aliens in an episode where they have just discovered a virus to kill all Aliens??? REALLY???

YOU COULDN'T THINK OF A BETTER PLOT????

[looptab]

[bijoux]

http://www.ew.com/gallery/cw-crossover-photos

I think there are some new photos here, or at least I don't remember seeing all of them. Also, the photo with the big flag is marked as LoT, so even if there is a wider recongition for the heroes efforts, who knows when it actually happens.

[tv echo]

‘Supergirl’-‘Flash’-‘Arrow’-‘Legends’ Crossover Review: CW’s Latest Team-Up Strongest & Most Ambitious Yet
by Dominic Patten  November 28, 2016 5:46pm
http://deadline.com/2016/11/supergirl-flash-arrow-legends-of-tomorrow-crossover-review-the-cw-melissa-benoist-grant-gustin-video-1201860826/

Quote

As things really kick into high gear tomorrow on Flash, another big part of this crossover’s success is the smooth chemistry between the Scarlet Speedster, Arrow and Supergirl leads Grant Gustin, Stephen Amell and Melissa Benoist – though I did find the Krypton native oddly under used through portions of the crossover. Add to that quips and in-jokes by the bucket full, an alien invasion with some very good visual effects and very good source material, a nod to the Hall of Justice from the Super Friends cartoon of the 1970s, a whole lot of twisted timelines and the deadpan malcontent of Legends‘ Heat Wave, played by Dominic Purcell – and you’ve got yourself something in sight of big and bold to watch – and watch you should.
*  *  *
However, I would be remiss in not spotlighting the exceptional work on the Arrow 100th episode that airs on Wednesday. A pivotal part of the crossover and also featuring a lot of familiar faces from the five seasons of the Emerald archer show, the Guggenheim & Wendy Mericle- written episode manages the surprising feat of being a solid stand-alone in the big wave of the multi-night extravaganza. The first of the DC properties to hit the CW, the Amell-led Arrow has found new gritty focus this season while expanding its own range narratively and dramatically – to which this 100th episode is a worthy tribute to a trailblazer of sorts.

[tv echo]

This is essentially the online version of the same article that's in EW's Nov. 18, 2016 print issue with the "Super Friends" cover (it's lengthy and I only quoted portions, so you may wish to read the entire thing) - btw, this writer appears to have forgotten about Sara...

Arrow, Flash, and Supergirl stars explain the magic that makes them soar
BY JEFF JENSEN Posted November 28 2016 — 11:50 AM EST
http://www.ew.com/article/2016/11/28/arrow-flash-supergirl-cw-superhero-crossover-cover-story

Quote

And more so than ever, the Arrowverse has been hitting the creative bull’s-eye this fall. The Flash, Arrow, and Legends are bouncing back after rocky seasons, and Supergirl has been soaring after launching a genuinely credible, compelling, and charismatic Superman (Tyler Hoechlin) and giving the Arrowverse its first lesbian series regular when Kara’s stepsister, Alex (Chyler Leigh), came out last week. Each show has a singular identity, but they all share winning values that are shaping the tenor of new-century superheroes. Those qualities, Berlanti says, begin here:

1. THEY HAVE A SILVER-AGE SOUL
.  .  .
Arrow was a savvy cornerstone upon which to build a shared universe. The saga of a vengeful vigilante fitfully transforming into a more virtuous superhero, Arrow belonged to the Dark Knight moment but represented a slow pivot away from it, too. In 2014, Berlanti used Arrow to launch The Flash and broaden the possibilities of his storytelling. His interest in the character reveals a lot about his geek sensibilities. He fell for the Scarlet Speedster via Crisis on Infinite Earths, a comic crossover extravaganza first published in 1985 involving hundreds of characters, a mysterious big bad, and a cosmic plot with world-shattering stakes. Most fanboys remember Crisis as the mother of all reboots. Berlanti loved it as a thing unto itself, a crazy, sprawling, life-or-death melodrama. When it comes to managing the Arrowverse, “that’s my touchstone,” he says.
*  *  *
2. THEY AREN’T AFRAID OF SOAP OPERA

The Arrowverse is steeped in genuine relationship drama, something that has distinguished all of Berlanti’s work since his days as a writer on Dawson’s Creek. But this, too, is very comic-compatible. While other Hollywood geeks take the antihero masterpieces of Alan Moore (Watchmen) and Frank Miller (Sin City) as influences, Guggenheim and Kreisberg pull from sources before the medium’s adult-skewing age: the team comics of the early ’80s — Fantastic Four, The Uncanny X-Men, and The New Teen Titans — tales of makeshift families fraught with dysfunction and romance. “Those were my soaps,” says Kreisberg, adding he still tears up recalling The New Teen Titans #50, when Dick Grayson confronts Bruce Wayne at Donna Troy’s wedding about why he never adopted him back in the Batman and Robin days.

The emphasis on team dynamics — an idea inspired by Buffy the Vampire Slayer, says Berlanti — does more than generate sudsy feels. It leads to a nuanced, humane kind of superhero fantasy that subverts its queasiest aspect, the all-about-me wish fulfillment. The current season of The Flash began with Barry abusing his speed to change his tragic history, only to create a timeline that leads to loss for his friends and disenfranchised countless others. How does he respond? How does his community respond? This kind of story — a timely, woke allegory about power, privilege, guilt, atonement, and reconciliation — illuminates the third rail that charges Berlanti’s shows…
*  *  *
3. THEY’RE ABOUT SOMETHING
.  .  .
As resonant as the Arrowverse has been, the immense imagination and spectacular ambitions of Berlanti’s shows will always be frustrated by limited time and resources. The clock could be ticking on the series that started it all: Stephen Amell thinks Arrow is at a crossroads following a tonally turbulent season 4. “We’re either going to do what we do and do it well, or it’s the last year,” he says. “If we find that magic formula — which is not magic, it’s just hard work and playing to your strengths — then the show could go on for a really long time.” Meanwhile, Berlanti continues to plot bold moves. Coming later this season: a Supergirl-Flash musical crossover. “We’ve always gone with our gut, and if we’ve liked it, we’ve been a little fearless about it,” he says. “We certainly made errors along the way. But that’s been part of the fun, too.”

Edited November 29, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

WHY SUPERGIRL'S FALL FINALE WASN'T MORE CONNECTED TO THE ARROWVERSE CROSSOVER
Terri Schwartz  Nov. 28, 2016
http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/11/29/why-supergirls-fall-finale-wasnt-more-connected-to-the-arrowverse-crossover

Quote

During a Q&A after a "Heroes v Aliens" screening event, executive producer Andrew Kreisberg explained to members of the press why Supergirl (the show, not the character) is significantly less involved in the crossover than the other three CW DC series.
*  *  *
"Part of what made it a little bit difficult was all the other shows – Flash, Arrow and Legends -- all have a subsequent episode to the crossovers, but with Supergirl, it was our midseason finale," he said. "We wanted to make sure that episode 8 of Supergirl spoke to what had been happening on the first seven episodes of Supergirl and not just as a tie in."

Kreisberg also said the CW shows weren't able to pull off expanding from last year's two-show crossover ("with a sprinkling of Legends") to a full four-show crossover, and instead did a three-show crossover with a tease in the fourth: "The idea of going to four full shows, I'm not sure we could have pulled off logistically speaking." It's also worth noting that, unlike the other three shows, Supergirl takes place in a different corner of the multiverse than the other three series in the crossover.
*  *  *
Freeing up time for Melissa Benoist to film her crossover scenes set up its own share of complications as well, Kreisberg explained. "Hopefully people didn't realize it, but Kara was not in a lot of episode 7 of Supergirl where she was captured by Cadmus, specifically to free her up for five days so that she could appear in all these other episodes," he said.

Invasion! Crossover Won't Have Huge Impact on Supergirl Going Forward
Russ Burlingame   Nov. 28, 2016
http://comicbook.com/dc/2016/11/29/invasion-crossover-wont-have-huge-impact-on-supergirl-going-forw/

Quote

"It doesn't really have that big an impact" on Supergirl, Kreisberg said during a screening of the crossover in Los Angeles today. "She's the one who brought the light. It was really Barry and Oliver who had to go on the journey and she brought the charm and the fun and the kick-ass-ness."

The Dominators Will Show Up Again On Supergirl After Invasion Crossover
Russ Burlingame   Nov. 28, 2016
http://comicbook.com/2016/11/29/the-dominators-will-show-up-again-on-supergirl-after-invasion-cr/

Quote

While the events of this week's Invasion! crossover between Supergirl, The Flash, Arrow, and DC's Legends of Tomorrow take place primarily on Earth-1 and will not have a significant long-term impact on Supergirl, the story's principal antagonists will have a role to play in future episodes, according to executive producer Andrew Kreisberg.

“This is not the last you see of the Dominators," Kreisberg told reporters during a screening of the crossover today in Los Angeles. "The Dominators will return on Supergirl later this season.”

Edited November 29, 2016 by tv echo

[looptab]

I love this. 'It's a 4 shows crosssover!!!1! It never happened on television!!!!!!'

...Well, actually..

[tv echo]

Lyla will be in tonight's Flash crossover ep...
https://twitter.com/aud_anderson/status/803335065518292992

Edited November 29, 2016 by tv echo

[SonofaBiscuit]

Preliminary Supergirl Ratings:

[Starfish35]

If that holds, that's an improvement of 0.2 and 900K viewers over last week.

[apinknightmare]

Marketing it as a 4 part crossover seems to be a success, then. 

[Starfish35]

I'm going to guess a 1.2, maybe 1.3, for tonight's episode.  The past Flash crossover episodes have gotten a 1.6 (2014) and a 1.4 (2015), but their overall ratings were higher then.

For Arrow...that's harder to say.  Maybe 0.9-1.0?  They've gotten 1.4 for each of the previous crossovers, but their ratings were in the 0.9-1.1 range then. 

LoT is the lowest rated of the four, usually getting a 0.6, but it's also the final night of the crossover.  So.....0.9?

One thing is that I'm not sure how much the Arrow episode is going to slow down the momentum.  

[way2interested]

25 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

One thing is that I'm not sure how much the Arrow episode is going to slow down the momentum.  

Well, some of the critics have said it was the more interesting part of the crossover, but that was because of the fact it was the 100th episode more than anything. I guess if it's someone who never watches Arrow or doesn't plan on watching Arrow it might be a real waste of time or de-motivator to continue on Thursday.

[Starfish35]

Yeah, I'm thinking of non-Arrow viewers.  I suspect the episode (and I apologize if I've missed spoilers out there already contradicting this) is going to open with Oliver (and friends) dropped into the alternate/dream reality, and it won't be explained how it ties into everything until later in the episode.  That's what I mean by slowing down the momentum.  Basically I'm envisioning this like we're taking a break from fighting aliens for an extended dream sequence that is not going to mean much to most of the non-Arrow viewers.  I can imagine them going "what the hell is this? What happened to the alien story I was watching last night?"

[Carrie Ann]

I think the dream scenes could be interspersed with scenes of Felicity and others trying to rescue Oliver, Sara, etc., from the pod-things, so that the momentum wouldn't be completely lost, but who knows?

Edited November 29, 2016 by Carrie Ann

[Starfish35]

I'm sure that will happen.  What I'm not sure of is how long they'll let the dream sequence play out before the "shocking reveal" that none of this is real.  Because once they cut to Felicity and company the illusion is broken.  So how long are they going to try to play that out? *shrug*  I don't know.  It could be early on and it could be halfway through the episode.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Starfish35

[Chaser]

My guess is it's going to be happen sooner rather than later. I'd almost bet that the important crossover stuff happens in the B Story with Felicity and Friends.

[statsgirl]

3 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

One thing is that I'm not sure how much the Arrow episode is going to slow down the momentum.  

If it's well done, it shouldn't be a problem.  In fact, it may be a good thing because it's very hard to maintain momentum and quality over three full episodes.

[Starfish35]

It does depend on how it's done.  But my concern is not so much about maintaining non-stop action as it is taking time out for a nostalgia break that probably isn't going to mean anything to non-Arrow viewers.  That's what I mean by breaking the momentum. 

I could be completely wrong and it could all flow seamlessly.  *shrug* Guess we'll see. 

[looptab]

Poor Dig, haha. And someone spat in OLLIE's (stop it, Barry) coffee again.

Edited November 29, 2016 by looptab

[Chaser]

That is how they get Thea to suit up? Lol

Oliver's life in danger is a struggle but Aliens are cool.

[Starfish35]

Lol.  I love it. :) Poor Dig.  

You know, I actually don't mind "Ollie" from Barry.  I don't know why.  

[Mellowyellow]

6 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Lol.  I love it. :) Poor Dig.  

You know, I actually don't mind "Ollie" from Barry.  I don't know why.  

Cuz he's Barry and adorable and if we can forgive him for Flashpoint, we can forgive him for anything!

Well I don't know about you but I still watch and enjoy the Flash.

[Starfish35]

I don't watch Flash anymore (except for the crossover), mainly because I knew that if I kept watching it I would start hating Barry and I didn't want to hate him.  This way I can just enjoy him when he pops up on the other shows.  And I'm doing my best to just ignore that Flashpoint was a thing. :/

Edited November 29, 2016 by Starfish35

[ruby24]

I hate it when he calls him Ollie. Hate it. I wish Oliver would snap at him not to say that.

[LeighAn]

16 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Ah OK, thanks. I wondered if you meant it wasn't actually in the episode but appeared as part of the "next time on" preview or something.

I don't watch Supergirl and didn't bother to watch this episode since I knew the only crossover would be a quick scene of Barry/Cisco recruiting Kara.

I wonder what the General Audience will make of this "four night crossover"? Will it turn people off thinking they got played watching a standard Supergirl episode?

I doubt we'll ever know, probably can't be measured. Mostly just a curiosity, if people felt like they got played/bait and switch

Im guessing judging by this the general audience Twitter reaction was they felt played:

https://mobile.twitter.com/MattMitovich/status/803621928418164736

[Chaser]

8 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

I don't watch Flash anymore (except for the crossover), mainly because I knew that if I kept watching it I would start hating Barry and I didn't want to hate him.  This way I can just enjoy him when he pops up on the other shows.  And I'm doing my best to just ignore that Flashpoint was a thing. :/

I love Felicity and Barry's friendship so I'm ignoring Flash so I can appreciate any moments I can get between them. Speaking of, I wonder what Barry is doing in the Arrow episode.

[apinknightmare]

7 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

Im guessing judging by this the general audience Twitter reaction was they felt played:

https://mobile.twitter.com/MattMitovich/status/803621928418164736

What an a-hole comment.

ETA: his not yours!

Edited November 29, 2016 by apinknightmare

[catrox14]

Yeah those constant 4 episode ginormous never before done crossover promos and ads didn't oversell it all, Mr. Mitovich.  Whatever, dude.

16 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

I hate it when he calls him Ollie. Hate it. I wish Oliver would snap at him not to say that.

This. I find it really obnoxious. When did he start doing that because I remember him calling him Oliver most of the time.

[LeighAn]

5 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

What an a-hole comment.

ETA: his not yours!

Haha I understood and yeah I felt something similar. 

[ruby24]

He said it randomly for the first time in the crossover last season. He always said Oliver in Season 1. Irritating as hell.