Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[wingster55]

(Do we know anything about her at all other than she lost someone (male?) to the metahumans?)

 

We know her motivation, her background all in her first scene. It was actually an info dump. 

[SonofaBiscuit]

I'm now completely hung up on how much better the crossover would have been had they made Kendra a friend of Iris's rather than a forced love interest for Cisco.

 

This is a complete guess, but perhaps The Flash EPs have data that shows that Cisco is very popular with the audience, so they paired him up with Kendra in hopes that some of the goodwill for his character will rub off on her.  I'm guessing that the data on Iris isn't so favorable, with how the show has apparently drastically reduced her relevance and screentime since the first season.

Edited December 2, 2015 by SonofaBiscuit

[SmallScreenDiva]

ETA: It's a little disappointing that Laura Hurley felt this was the stronger episode, because I normally agree with her and I felt this episode (outside of a few scenes) wasn't that impressive.

 

Interesting ... the tweets (or maybe Tumblr responses?) I saw from Laura Hurley said Flash was the more fun episode and Arrow is the more emotional one, adding Arrow's is the more significant episode. I haven't come across the one where she said this is the stronger episode.

 

And speaking of media folks, Jenny Raftery is actually a recapper, not a reviewer. She labels her write-ups as such, which I really appreciate because so many sites can't seem to figure out what they are actually doing. Some are essentially recaps with a couple random snarky opinions and they call them reviews. Wrong. End rant.

 

Anyway, I felt this was a rather uneven ep. Definitely felt more Arrow than Flash. At some point, I got annoyed when they showed Wells and Caitlin, totally forgetting what show I was watching. I did love all the Olicity, Barricity, OliBarr and OliBarricity. Oliver was very handsy tonight, LOL, rubbing Felicity's shoulders, kissing her temple, sneaking another kiss just before Vandal savaged the windows, and then that long, lingering kiss before he and Barry skedaddled to Central City. I knew what they were doing, getting us ready for the heartbreak tonight :P

 

Did they ever explain why the heck Malcolm was giving info about Vandal Savage? Was he tracking him? If so, for what? His presence just seems so random. It would have made more sense if they were trying to show a different "kind" of father as a setup for Oliver's story, but he and Thea barely interacted.

Edited December 2, 2015 by SmallScreenDiva

[Chaser]

'Stronger' was my interpretation of her tweet so it could be incorrect. She said she preferred The Flash episode.

[Guest]

I forget - how did Malcolm know to be in Star City to drop info about Vandal Savage? Was that explained or are we supposed to believe he senses these things? LOL.

[NumberCruncher]

Do you think they'll send Felicity as well for an appearance on LoT at some point, or not?

I certainly hope not as I have exactly zero interest in ever watching LoT. Then again, I didn't even watch the Ray/Felicity crossover to The Flash last season in its entirety because "Yuck!" so I guess I can ignore it if she does.

[Genki]

Anyway. Despite all that dumb Hawk/LoT stuff, I did really enjoy that ep! Cisco and Barry were the right people to come over to SC--I'm glad they didn't stretch to bring people who are either needless liabilities (Iris--sorry, I love her) or just unnecessary (Caitlin). Plus, I did kind of think the Caitlin/Wells piece was interesting. I just wish Jay Garrick weren't such a dud. 

 

I enjoyed the Caitlin and Harry in CC B-Plot, but not the Jay Garrick bits. Am I noticing some chemistry there? I'm really not enjoying Jay's character at all. Probably because he is kinda useless and I like E2 Wells quite a bit, and he is just useless and Laurel-ish in the way he comes across.

 

While I like Team Flash, I think I agree that I like Barry more when he's around Team Arrow. He seems more fun and less emo which makes sense because he doesn't have to shoulder all the superheroing all alone. He can share it with his broody older brother. :D

 

Barry works so well with Team Arrow, in a way that most other Masks don't. I remember last year thinking that Barry/Oliver dynamic works so much better than Oliver/Roy (*sob* sorry I didn't appreciate you as much when you were around) probably because they do have that sibling rivalry, Big brother/Little Brother vibe. I also like the way Barry can question Oliver and Tease Oliver and relate to Oliver without it coming off putting down Oliver which tends to happen with other characters in both shows. Even the Jitters scene with the Flash coffee was less annoying in show then in the promos. 

 

Basically this crossover demonstrated for me that I don't really need another Comic book show but, like with Flash, I do care about how it affects Arrow characters, and ties in Arrow Canon characters 

Conner Hawke

, but not sure if I want/need to watch every episode. 

[Delphi]

I forget - how did Malcolm know to be in Star City to drop info about Vandal Savage? Was that explained or are we supposed to believe he senses these things? LOL.

I assume the league keeps tabs on Vandal as best they can and when he was spotted in Starling or Central he came to make sure Thea was safe. ..using teleportation. I give up.

[BkWurm1]

This is a complete guess, but perhaps The Flash EPs have data that shows that Cisco is very popular with the audience, so they paired him up with Kendra in hopes that some of the goodwill for his character will rub off on her.  I'm guessing that the data on Iris isn't so favorable, with how the show has apparently drastically reduced her relevance and screentime since the first season.

It think the problem though was that while I really like Cisco too, he and Kendra don't work for me AT ALL.  I was highly uncomfortable watching all their scenes because they felt really fake to me and took me out of the show.  And in the process, it never really introduced me to Kendra, just to Cisco's desire to date a pretty girl but bigger desire to ditch her when he freaked about what he saw in regards to her.  I feel like Kendra and Cisco together just don't make sense for the characters.  At least Ray and Felicity made sense on paper.

 

Iris may not be as popular as Cisco but they could have more naturally incorporated both of them into Kendra's story if they made Kendra's deeper connection one of friendship with Iris and POTENTIAL love interest with Cisco.  She's introduced with one foot out of the door already.  Why pretend that she and Cisco will ever have a deep relationship and why pretend that the bland, barely there interaction we saw with Cisco and Kendra should be anything really that big of a loss Cisco.  He couldn't sell me on him having never felt like that with anyone before. 

 

But him being mad about her and NOT yet dating her would have been something I could have believed.  I can believe he'd crush on her and I can believe she'd find him nice enough but it was never going to be a deep relationship, why pretend it was?  Crisco could have been his fun quippy self and even had a moment of seriousness when he realize she never really took him seriously.  I guess that's my issue.  I could never take Kendra with Cisco seriously so it kind of ruined her introduction for me and made me not enjoy Cisco as much as I had in the past. 

 

HIs best interaction on the crossover was with Thea, IMO, not Kendra. 

[InsertWordHere]

It's probably why I secretly ship him with Thea just so he can have more reason to be on Arrow.

I ship them just so I can refer to them as "Speedy and the Flash." Is that wrong?

[bettername2come]

I ship them just so I can refer to them as "Speedy and the Flash." Is that wrong?

No. They would make an adorable red costumed couple. That being said, I kind of ship her with Cisco based on their 10 seconds of interaction.

 

Glad I came to this thread. I was starting to feel like the only person who likes both shows.

 

ETA: I've seen some nice gifs pop up from the episode on this thread, so if anyone's got one of Cisco and Barry's simultaneous "No!" to Kendra jumping off the roof a second time, I'd like to see it.

Edited December 2, 2015 by bettername2come

[tennisgurl]

 

That being said, I kind of ship her with Cisco based on their 10 seconds of interaction.

I am totally on board that ship. Cisco is about to find himself available in the new future after all. 

 

And, just to remind everyone, Oliver calls Felicity "honey". 

[EmeraldArcher]

Rewatched Flash 208 to prepare for Arrow 408 and discovered a fabulous, mic-drop line:

Oliver: You came here because you needed our help. This is what my help looks like." [bOOM]

(So wish he'd been as assertive with TA 3.0)

[theacostov]

I'm going to give Legends a chance because Sara!, but they've really been testing my resolve with the crossover. Did not like the hawk people at all. Completely bored by their backstory 

Edited December 3, 2015 by theacostov

[EmilyBettFan]

I'm sorry but anyone who stands with their arms crossed most of the episode(s) is not someone I rank high as a good actor. Yeah sure a lot of them do that pose but not an entire episode or episodes. Plus that same annoyed look on her face.

Then they give lines to Laurel like "that's why we love you Felicity." Ah what come again? Since when are we supposed to think Laurel loves Felicity?

[tv echo]

Captain America: Civil War: Chris Evans on Cap's fight for Winter Soldier
BY ANTHONY BREZNICAN December 2 2015 — 4:58 PM EST
http://www.ew.com/article/2015/12/02/captain-america-civil-war-splash-page

Edited December 3, 2015 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Erik Kain, Forbes Contributor, loved Flash 208...

 

'The Flash' Season 2, Episode 8 Review: 'Legends Of Today'
DEC 2, 2015 @ 01:30 PM
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2015/12/02/the-flash-season-2-episode-8-review-legends-of-today/

[foreverevolving]

Something else that amuses me is that Thea still keeps a room at the loft. Or at least a sort of storage for some of her stuff.

 

she does? when was it mentioned?

 

So basically complaints about Arrow and racism. Hardly hate, is it?

they also complain that Felicity is a mary-sue..

 

It think the problem though was that while I really like Cisco too, he and Kendra don't work for me AT ALL.  I was highly uncomfortable watching all their scenes because they felt really fake to me and took me out of the show.  And in the process, it never really introduced me to Kendra, just to Cisco's desire to date a pretty girl but bigger desire to ditch her when he freaked about what he saw in regards to her.  I feel like Kendra and Cisco together just don't make sense for the characters.  At least Ray and Felicity made sense on paper.

 

Iris may not be as popular as Cisco but they could have more naturally incorporated both of them into Kendra's story if they made Kendra's deeper connection one of friendship with Iris and POTENTIAL love interest with Cisco.  She's introduced with one foot out of the door already.  Why pretend that she and Cisco will ever have a deep relationship and why pretend that the bland, barely there interaction we saw with Cisco and Kendra should be anything really that big of a loss Cisco.  He couldn't sell me on him having never felt like that with anyone before. 

 

But him being mad about her and NOT yet dating her would have been something I could have believed.  I can believe he'd crush on her and I can believe she'd find him nice enough but it was never going to be a deep relationship, why pretend it was?  Crisco could have been his fun quippy self and even had a moment of seriousness when he realize she never really took him seriously.  I guess that's my issue.  I could never take Kendra with Cisco seriously so it kind of ruined her introduction for me and made me not enjoy Cisco as much as I had in the past. 

 

HIs best interaction on the crossover was with Thea, IMO, not Kendra. 

they should have introduced her in the 1st episode and began the romance then.

 

I'm sorry but anyone who stands with their arms crossed most of the episode(s) is not someone I rank high as a good actor. Yeah sure a lot of them do that pose but not an entire episode or episodes. Plus that same annoyed look on her face.

Then they give lines to Laurel like "that's why we love you Felicity." Ah what come again? Since when are we supposed to think Laurel loves Felicity?

 

The problem isn't the line, per usual the problem lays in the delivery of it by KC.

[Sakura12]

With the arm crossing, a KC fan posted a bunch of pics of Dinah Lance in the comics crossing her arms. Maybe that's the "method acting" KC took from that.  However I don't think "method acting" means what KC thinks it means. She seems to only care about the physical attributes, not bringing a character to life through their personality. Anyone can make themselves look like a character or stand like a character it's called Cosplay. Actors need to become the character all the way through. Even if they make their own version, the character still needs life. 

[Trini]

Next year's crossover needs to much simpler.  Bringing over nearly the entire casts of both shows was just a little too much. And then we had the new characters for the spin-off.

 

Fingers crossed that they can tie in Supergirl somehow.

[bijoux]

she does? when was it mentioned?

 

It wasn't mentioned, but her bow and arrows were there somewhere. So I imagine she has some sort of space.

[Starfish35]

Poster for LoT:

http://tvline.com/2015/12/04/legends-of-tomorrow-poster-cw/

[Morrigan2575]

From the poster I gather Ray, Sara and Cold areally the big 3 from the show. Surprised, I thought Rip would be a major player in the show.

[apinknightmare]

It's really strange that everyone is angled downward. 

[Starfish35]

From the poster I gather Ray, Sara and Cold areally the big 3 from the show. Surprised, I thought Rip would be a major player in the show.

Same here. Also kind of surprised with the Hawks being in the background after spending their crossover giving them a big promo push.

It's really strange that everyone is angled downward.

Yeah I don't like the angle at all.

Edited December 4, 2015 by Starfish35

[Sakura12]

I think that was the only way to fit everyone on a portrait layout poster. 

 

I'm wondering if layout is going to be the credit order too with Victor Garber getting the "and". 

 

Also is Sara not wearing the jacket anymore? She wasn't wearing it in the trailers either. 

[Delphi]

Fingers crossed, I hated that jacket in gray.

[foreverevolving]

It wasn't mentioned, but her bow and arrows were there somewhere. So I imagine she has some sort of space.

Well Barry ran to the lair and back to bring Oliver his quiver and bow when they were fighting Vandal, I think he may have done the same for Thea..

Edited December 4, 2015 by foreverevolving

[Delphi]

Oh I just assumed that they brought their bows along with them, because they knew that Kendra was already in danger. I assumed Barry just grabbed them from the other room.

[Starfish35]

Supergirl: Italia Ricci Joins Cast as DC Villainess Silver Banshee

http://tvline.com/2015/12/04/supergirl-italia-ricci-season-1-cast-silver-banshee/

[foreverevolving]

Oh I just assumed that they brought their bows along with them, because they knew that Kendra was already in danger. I assumed Barry just grabbed them from the other room.

Maybe, I was super exhausted (been up since 5am) watching the episode so I could be remembering that detail wrong... actually the entire two episodes are a big fuzz (except the Oliver lying to Felicity part, that will forever be engraved in my memory as Arrow finally jumping shark and, based on next week, the reason I may chose to stop watching.

[bettername2come]

I was greatly amused at the idea of Barry putting the quiver on. No wonder he said he could hug Oliver without him knowing. He practically had already.

[kismet]

I feel like BA should have saved his hug for FS, after contributing to the time reset Baby Mama Drama Debacle.

[bijoux]

You know, it just hit me. Malcolm Merlyn plays a crucial part in the destruction of the world. He must be so proud of himself.

[kismet]

MMs master manipulation is going to be interesting to watch. I wonder what plan he has cooking. He's playing OQ with his whole I love my daughter act so much you have to do what I propose or find some means to achieve what I ask. He knows love is OQ weakness and he plays him like a fine tuned instrument. I think he does love TQ but she is a game piece for him first and foremost. And then his whole negotiation is the only way out of this. Love it.

His reveal to be either working with VS or getting him to owe him a favor is perhaps the best surprise & thing to come out of the crossover. It makes sense now why they gave him so many lines in the Flash portion, there are bigger games at play. Now I wonder what/how MM will be part of LoT. It's exciting because I think they can work out a good story arc for MM if they keep this master manipulation going where he is playing all sides. And nothing is out of bounds to achieve his goals.

[tv echo]

Well, we know the LP was destroyed so MM can no longer enjoy its longevity benefits.  And we know TPTB love having JB on the show.  So I'm guessing that MM wants VS in his debt in order to somehow gain immortality for himself.  Then he'll continue on in S5 of Arrow (as well as Flash and LoT) as another Big Bad.

Edited December 5, 2015 by tv echo

[Starfish35]

Bringing conversation over from the Ratings thread:

IMO any trade for Caitlin would be a loss for Arrow...worst (and most subtly problematic) actress in the Flarrow-verse.

We're bashing Flash actors in the Arrow forum these days? Interesting.

Um... No? I'm looking back at the conversation and they seem to be talking about Flash Characters and their opinions of them?

I believe Xander was referring to wingster55's comment about Danielle Panabaker.

We're all going to have different opinions about this. *shrug* I personally do not think Danielle is that bad. I would agree that she's probably the weakest of the Flash cast, because that cast is amazingly talented. (Although I haven't been impressed with Teddy Sears, but I don't know if he's regular cast or recurring.)

I do not personally think she's the weakest in the Flarrowverse. This will shock everyone, I know, but I think Katie Cassidy is way worse than Danielle. Danielle is watchable to me - Katie is not. But everyone is going to have their own opinions about who's strongest and weakest.

I personally like Caitlin. I've not been thrilled with the Caitlin/Jay romance at all, and it felt like she kind of got lost during the second half of last season. But I like the character, and I like her friendship with Felicity, and I'd like to see more of that.

Edited December 6, 2015 by Starfish35

[wonderwall]

I believe Xander was referring to wingster55's comment about Danielle Panabaker.

 

Ahhh. IMO one's acting is fair game. If they think an actor/actress is the weakest link, it's not 'bashing'. Everyone is judged for their performance at work, this is nothing different. 

[kismet]

It's funny because the potential of a Caitlin/Jay/E2 Wells triangle is the only thing that can make me interested in watching Catlin. I do like that she is written as a smart female character. I do enjoy her relationship with FS. So I do think she has potential, but the writing for her is a snoozefest. As for the acting, she isn't given much to test her range. I liked her acting when Ronnie was around. The one thing I think the actress is really good about is making character connections. I believe from her acting that her character is invested in her relationships (platonic & romantic). So when they give her relationship moments, I think the actress shines. When they ask her to do plotty stuff, exposition or anything science/medical related, I just find myself zoning out. The problem is that the FLASH writers don't seem to want to write relationships between characters. Especially if they are not connected to Joe. Joe gets all the relationships. Even BA gets very few relationship moments outside of his two Dads that are not plot related.

 

The weakest actor in the Flarrowverse is just a hard call because I think there are a few contenders for that title. But everyone's mileage will vary. I personally think the guy who plays Cisco is one of the weaker actors when he is not delivering one-liners. Most the crossover for me was painful because I had to watch him actually act. KC is always going to be on that list, because I think she was originally miscast and now because I think the writers are too scared to right to her strengths as an actor which is mega b*tch or at least mean girl. But they keep on insisting she is heart of gold girl-next-door, which she is not. DP is also one note as mentioned above. For me its not that one actor is worse than the other, its just that so many of the other actors are more versatile and offer a lot more than the one-noters. So the one-noters appear weak, but perhaps if the writing was to their strengths it would be better for everyone.

Edited December 6, 2015 by kismet

[Starfish35]

It's funny because the potential of a Caitlin/Jay/E2 Wells triangle is the only thing that can make me interested in watching Catlin.

Different strokes, as they say. :) I can't with either one, personally. Caitlin/Jay was far too fast for me to accept. It may have been six months for Caitlin, but it was literally one episode for the viewers, and this viewer does not switch gears that fast. Especially in a season where we can barely have Barry and Iris interacting because apparently Iris is still supposed to be mourning Eddie (not that they ever bother to show that). Not to mention that I think Jay has been acting like an ass. So yeah.

Caitlin/E2 Wells bugs me (although I don't think it's going to be canon) because of the age difference (his daughter's only a few years younger than her) and because the old "Wells" was her boss and mentor. E2 Wells isn't the same guy, but I'm not sure Caitlin has fully differentiated them in her mind. She was the one who had the hardest time accepting what "Wells"/Thawne was last season, and I think it'd be all too easy for her to substitute this Wells for what she believed that one to be in her mind.

Edited December 6, 2015 by Starfish35

[wingster55]

I would put Cisco/Carlos on the worst actor if I hadn't seen the scene where Wells/Thawne kills him. 

Caity Lotz is someone who hasn't been tested all that much on Arrow...but I did see her on Mad Men (a show that has one of the greatest acting casts I've seen, granted that's a bit limited) and her final scene on that show imo completely exposed her limitations as an actress. 

 

Danielle never impressed..and really is the only person I've laughed out loud at in a scene I don't think was meant to invoke that reaction. 

[statsgirl]

I like Danielle Panabaker too, and the character of Caitlin.  I wish they would spend more time on her friendship with Felicity because that is a friendship that makes sense (two smart, kind  women in science).  When they give her more interesting stuff to do (e.g. karaoke with Barry), it makes her a more interesting character.

 

I also like Teddy Sears so I can't figure out why Caitlin/Jay is like wet newspaper for me.  While Caitlin/Harry is icky, there is a lot more there, probably because Tom Cavanaugh is an actor who can make others look good.

 

The problem is that the writing for all the female characters on The Flash sucks.  The men at least get connections, especially Barry and My Three Dads.  The women are defined either by their jobs (team doctor, reporter, Joe's partner) or the men in their lives.

[Starfish35]

The Flash does have issues with its female characters. I like all of them....in fact, I would say Laurel is the only female character in the entire Flarrowverse I dislike (although I'm iffy on the Huntress). But the writing is so bad for them. Patty is the only one this season who's been written halfway decently, and it should not be so hard to write for more than one female character at a time. :(

[statsgirl]

From my reading of the Flash board, they attribute Iris getting shafted to being a woman of color (they badly need a bitterness thread).  I disagree, I think the problem is that like Laurel, she's an iconic character from the comics who doesn't really fit into the show that they are writing.

 

Any thoughts?

Edited December 6, 2015 by statsgirl

[Genki]

Iris is poorly written but well acted I think CP does a great job bringing a warmth and relate-ability to Iris, but I think she has many of the writing issues that Laurel has. Like everyone has been saying there is an issue for the writing of the women in Flash (I think Laurel is the exception rather than the rule for female characters on Arrow).

 

The burden of Cannon is is pretty heavy especially IMO for long-running comic books, who may have been written long ago, but need to be updated to to gel with a modern and savvy audience. There is so much source material but a lot of what is special to someone may not be special to another. Also people can react stronger and more negatively if they perceive a threat to their nostalgia, (*cough*StarWarsEpisodesI-III*cough*). The comic fandom does tend to give off the perception of being the most nit-picky and hardest to please.

 

With DP acting, I did expect better from her after seeing her in Justified. At first I was wondering if this was a situation where the Actress is holding back of producing certain characteristics because they know they will eventually need to play an alternate version of themselves but now I'm not so sure....maybe it is like @Kismet stated

 

I do like that she is written as a smart female character. I do enjoy her relationship with FS. So I do think she has potential, but the writing for her is a snoozefest. As for the acting, she isn't given much to test her range. I liked her acting when Ronnie was around. The one thing I think the actress is really good about is making character connections. I believe from her acting that her character is invested in her relationships (platonic & romantic). So when they give her relationship moments, I think the actress shines. When they ask her to do plotty stuff, exposition or anything science/medical related, I just find myself zoning out.

 

I am intrigued by Caitlin's relationship with E2 Harry, there was just something there in 2.08. (Jay does nothing for me). 

[Trini]

From my reading of the Flash board, they attribute Iris getting shafted to being a woman of color (they badly need a bitterness thread).  I disagree, I think the problem is that like Laurel, she's an iconic character from the comics who doesn't really fit into the show that they are writing.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Iris being a woman of color may be part of the reason, how big a part I wouldn't know. I think the biggest reason is that the Flash writers just aren't interested in including her in a significant way -- especially now that Patty has taken over the Love Interest role. (Or another way, every other role/character takes priority over her.) They seem to have very limited ideas about Iris' role and what she can do.

 

Even without the Love Interest role, Iris being the lead's best friend would still be a way for her to fit into the show. Some of the many heart-to-hearts with Barry had with Joe could have been with Iris. (But they love the father/son and mentor/mentee relationships more.) I assume they will pair up Iris with Barry eventually, so they could show why he falls in love with her. Now that she's officially part of Team Flash, she could be a resource for them, and they a resource for her. Iris was hired to write about the Flash, so she has an excuse to hang around them. And with the Flash being a public celebrity in Central City, I think it be a good idea to have Iris as his official PR rep. Those are just a few ideas about how how to involve her.

[Ceylon5]

I think their problem of not integrating Iris as well as everyone else boils down to one simple reason:  Iris is the only member of the cast who doesn't work with Barry in one of his two main places of "work" - the precinct (official work) and Star Labs (unofficial work).   As a result she doesn't get the same easy "simply in a scene because she's got nowhere else to be" screen-time that the rest of the cast gets.  Cisco, Wells and Caitlyn are always just there in Star Labs.  Do they live there?  Who knows, but if there's a scene there, they're bound to be there too, doing plotty stuff in either the foreground or the background.  So they're easy to include because they're permanently in the place where half the story takes place, doing their thing.  They belong there.  Likewise, a fair amount of plot happens at the precinct/crime scenes, so the cops can be easily incorporated into those plotty bits too.  Reasons don't have to be manufactured for them to be there; they're just doing their jobs alongside Barry.  For Iris to be included, they either have to move away from Barry's work bases to Iris's work, which means excluding most of the rest of the cast and focussing on her (highlighting that she's separate from the main story), or she has to leave her work and go someplace where she doesn't work or really have any specific role and kind of hang about (the precinct/Star Labs).

 

They had the same problem with Laurel before she became the Black Canary, except that with her they gave her a lot of storyline of her own, separate from Oliver and the main plot.  On the other hand Felicity in S1 & S2 had the same problem that Caitlyn and, to a lesser degree, Cisco have - they're super useful to the protagonist and the plot, but don't get much story that's just theirs, separate from the hero and his stuff.  When the shows try to give the supporting cast personal development independent of the main story, though, they don't generally do it especially well, so maybe that's to their advantage?

[Sakura12]

I don't know why they changed Iris from being a psychologist to a barista/reporter. As a psychologist she could've worked at the police station and Team Flash could've brought her in to help with the metas. They don't seem to know how to utilize Iris as a reporter. 

[Morrigan2575]

I think they changed it because comics.

[Sakura12]

Why? Black Canary was never a lawyer in the comics.