S08.E08: How It's Gotta Be

[spiderpig]

Who'd a thunk we'd actually be nostalgic for the days of the Governor and Woodbury?

[heisenberg]

4 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

Is that what he was doing? I kept zoning out. He expected to find a gas station in the woods?

 

 

Nope, he was looking to siphon gas from cars, this is mostly what he has done this season,  he also had a hose to do so.

Quote

 

I already did one Benny Hill vid (of Dumb and Dumber chasing Ninja Jesus all over the place) for this show. Don't tempt me to do another.

 

 

I would really like to see that!

Edited December 20, 2017 by heisenberg

[Lady Iris]

13 hours ago, Smad said:

I think I prefer S2 Daryl. The Sophia arc dragged but it was great character development for him during that arc and after. It's another thing I blame Gimple for, he didn't seem to have any idea who Daryl was and what worked about his character.

Him too! Anything before the hair grew out and became darker and moppier and he mopier.

[KirkB]

7 hours ago, heisenberg said:

Nope, he was looking to siphon gas from cars, this is mostly what he has done this season,  he also had a hose to do so.

I had to read this twice, because I swear the first time I thought you said Carl was trying to get gas from a horse. Which, I suppose you can, but it's not going to help your cars very much.  :)

[AngelaHunter]

8 hours ago, heisenberg said:

Nope, he was looking to siphon gas from cars, this is mostly what he has done this season,  he also had a hose to do so.

Thank you. Also thanks for the illustration. That might be the way to go when doing recaps, since no one can see or hear what's happening in the show. Pictorial recaps!

That picture also makes me again ask the question: Rick, with all your running around, speecifying, playing with the GPK, could you not have taken one little side trip to get your kid a patch to cover that gaping crater in his face? Oh, well. Guess it doesn't matter now.

 

25 minutes ago, KirkB said:

I swear the first time I thought you said Carl was trying to get gas from a horse.

Horse gas might work better than 2 - 3 year old gasoline sitting around in wrecked cars.

8 hours ago, heisenberg said:

I would really like to see that!

Do you mean Dumb&Dumber?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftO6PQ3tK6U&feature=youtu.be

[Raven1707]

The Cable Live +7 ratings are in for Episode 808, "How It's Gotta Be":

The fall finale of “The Walking Dead,” per usual, got the week’s biggest boost. It jumped from 3.4 to 5.4 in adults 18-49 and from 7.9 million to 12.13 million viewers. [12.126 million]

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/dvr-ratings/cable-live-7-ratings-for-dec-4-10-2017/

Here are the Live + Same Day, Live +3, and Live +7 ratings for the first half of Season 8:

10-22-17 “Mercy” 11.439 million; 15.047 million; 15.736 million
10-29-17 “The Damned” 8.923 million; 12.247 million; 13.096 million
11-05-17 “Monsters” 8.519 million; 12.086 million; 13.007 million
11-12-17 “Some Guy” 8.688 million; 12.361 million; not reported
11-19-17 “The Big Scary U” 7.845 million; not reported; not reported
11-26-17 “The King, The Widow, & Rick” 8.282 million; 11.878 million; 12.727 million
12-03-17 “Time For After” 7.468 million; 10.737 million; 11.627 million
12-10-17 “How It’s Gotta Be” 7.885 million; 11.510 million; 12.126 million

And this is what the ratings looked like for the first half of Season 7:

10-23-16 “The Day Will Come When You Won’t Be” 17.029 million; 20.793 million; 21.528 million
10-30-16 “The Well” 12.455 million; 16.849 million; 17.947 million
11-06-16 “The Cell” 11.721 million; 16.225 million; 17.208 million
11-13-16 “Service” 11.402 million; 15.718 million; not reported
11-20-16 “Go Getters” 10.996 million; 15.267 million; 16.308 million
11-27-16 “Swear” 10.403 million; 14.275 million; 15.096 million
12-04-16 “Sing Me a Song” 10.481 million; 14.940 million; 15.776 million
12-11-16 “Hearts Still Beating” 10.583 million; 15.198 million; 16.020 million

I'm thinking there just might be lumps of coal in a few Christmas stockings this year...

[heisenberg]

On 20/12/2017 at 9:41 AM, AngelaHunter said:

Do you mean Dumb&Dumber?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftO6PQ3tK6U&feature=youtu.be

I never saw it, it is pretty good, thanks! :-)

[AngelaHunter]

53 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

IMO, it is a writing problem/showrunner problem.  Not a casting problem.

I agree. it's a showrunner problem when the least talented actors are given entire episodes that they cannot possibly carry. It's a writing problem when characters are given ridiculous lines and act in ways that defy any kind of logic, which brings it back to the showrunner.

[shanndee]

On 12/21/2017 at 1:59 PM, icemiser69 said:

IMO, it is a writing problem/showrunner problem.  Not a casting problem.   I just hope if any changes are made, they are from behind the camera, and not in front of the camera.  I would hate to see actors and actresses lose their jobs due to low ratings caused by horrible writing.  It is bad enough that I already lost my pixel pal, Shiva.

 

On 12/21/2017 at 2:54 PM, AngelaHunter said:

I agree. it's a showrunner problem when the least talented actors are given entire episodes that they cannot possibly carry. It's a writing problem when characters are given ridiculous lines and act in ways that defy any kind of logic, which brings it back to the showrunner.

 

Exactly. And I can't even begin to describe the feeling of dread and deja vu that I have right now. I am completely floored to see The Walking Dead turn into Sleepy Hollow. I *should* want to bail out now rather than go through that again...but I have so much time invested in this series that I can't...quite...yet.

Show runners. I'm really starting to hate them...

[DearEvette]

On 12/19/2017 at 10:10 PM, spiderpig said:

Who'd a thunk we'd actually be nostalgic for the days of the Governor and Woodbury?

I actually liked the Governor and Woodbury.  He was an interesting villain with some layers and Woodbury was a good concept and it was a great reintroduction and final character arc for Merle.  I did hate they didn't quite stick the landing on that arc, making  the Gov another energizer bunny villain, the leader who against all laws of physics stayed alive while his minions all died around him only to pop up a season later and kill Herschel.  And yeah, yet another person Rick wouldn't inexplicably kill when he had the clear chance.  But the I loved the Woodbury arc.

[Persnickety1]

On 12/19/2017 at 11:11 AM, AngelaHunter said:

I know! He used to be the person you'd want to CYA in an apocalypse. Now he's a mopey, dumbass jinx with no impulse control and who can't do anything right.

IMO, they did the same to Glenn - took away his quirky, interesting personality and turned him into such a dreary, sanctimonious bore that I didn't even care when he got killed.

 

Oy, when the episode where Glenn and Maggie were reunited in that tunnel, I remember somebody (from either here or TWOP) posted that the cave should have collapsed and buried them.  I laughed my ass off when I read that post.  

I've come to the conclusion that these writers simply have no idea how to handle "couples" material without changing the very core of the individuals involved.   

The only romantic entanglement I've found interesting on this show was the Rick/Shane/Lori clusterfuck.  

I wonder why that particular arc was so well written, whilst the rest of the couplings have been so crappy.

Oh, wait, now I remember the problem.  G-I-M-P-L-E.  

[AngelaHunter]

2 hours ago, DearEvette said:

I actually liked the Governor and Woodbury.  He was an interesting villain with some layers and Woodbury was a good concept and it was a great reintroduction and final character arc for Merle.

Me too! He was interesting and human and never once did he brag about his dick or his balls. So yeah, I'm nostalgic for that.

[Persnickety1]

On 12/21/2017 at 10:15 AM, Raven1707 said:

The Cable Live +7 ratings are in for Episode 808, "How It's Gotta Be":

The fall finale of “The Walking Dead,” per usual, got the week’s biggest boost. It jumped from 3.4 to 5.4 in adults 18-49 and from 7.9 million to 12.13 million viewers. [12.126 million]

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/dvr-ratings/cable-live-7-ratings-for-dec-4-10-2017/

Here are the Live + Same Day, Live +3, and Live +7 ratings for the first half of Season 8:

10-22-17 “Mercy” 11.439 million; 15.047 million; 15.736 million
10-29-17 “The Damned” 8.923 million; 12.247 million; 13.096 million
11-05-17 “Monsters” 8.519 million; 12.086 million; 13.007 million
11-12-17 “Some Guy” 8.688 million; 12.361 million; not reported
11-19-17 “The Big Scary U” 7.845 million; not reported; not reported
11-26-17 “The King, The Widow, & Rick” 8.282 million; 11.878 million; 12.727 million
12-03-17 “Time For After” 7.468 million; 10.737 million; 11.627 million
12-10-17 “How It’s Gotta Be” 7.885 million; 11.510 million; 12.126 million

And this is what the ratings looked like for the first half of Season 7:

10-23-16 “The Day Will Come When You Won’t Be” 17.029 million; 20.793 million; 21.528 million
10-30-16 “The Well” 12.455 million; 16.849 million; 17.947 million
11-06-16 “The Cell” 11.721 million; 16.225 million; 17.208 million
11-13-16 “Service” 11.402 million; 15.718 million; not reported
11-20-16 “Go Getters” 10.996 million; 15.267 million; 16.308 million
11-27-16 “Swear” 10.403 million; 14.275 million; 15.096 million
12-04-16 “Sing Me a Song” 10.481 million; 14.940 million; 15.776 million
12-11-16 “Hearts Still Beating” 10.583 million; 15.198 million; 16.020 million

I'm thinking there just might be lumps of coal in a few Christmas stockings this year...

Down about 4 million viewers pretty consistently just since last season.

While it's still a (the?) top-rated show on cable, that's a significant drop in viewership.  

Here's hoping AMC/Gimple have something up their proverbial sleeves to pull out for the second half of the season, otherwise I'm pretty sure those numbers are going to drop even further.  

[catrox14]

IMO, I think Negan is character that suits the comic form vs live action. The only time I found Negan at all interesting was the moment he had with Coral when it seemed like he was taken aback that Coral was willing and maybe even wanted to die. 

[Raven1707]

3 hours ago, Persnickety1 said:

Down about 4 million viewers pretty consistently just since last season.

While it's still a (the?) top-rated show on cable, that's a significant drop in viewership.  

Here's hoping AMC/Gimple have something up their proverbial sleeves to pull out for the second half of the season, otherwise I'm pretty sure those numbers are going to drop even further.  

Here are the Live + Same Day, Live +3, and Live +7 ratings for Season 7 of Game of Thrones:

07-16-17 “Dragonstone” 10.105 million; 12.201 million; 12.743 million
07-23-17 “Stormborn” GOT 9.270 million; not reported; 12.367 miliion
07-30-17 “The Queen’s Justice” 9.245 million; 11.973 million; not reported
08-06-17 “The Spoils of War”  10.167 million; not reported; 13.940 million
08-13-17 “Eastwatch” 10.718 million; 13.643 million; 14.411 million
08-20-17 “Beyond the Wall” 10.236 million; not reported; 13.985 million
08-27-17 “The Dragon and the Wolf” 12.072 million; not reported; 15.442 million

*There is a discrepancy between the initial Live + Same Day ratings and subsequent references to those numbers in the Live +3 and/or Live +7 reports. This does NOT occur with ratings for The Walking Dead, and may be attributable to some quirk in HBO’s data.

Since the TV season has traditionally started in the fall and ends in the spring/summer, the proper comparison would be with ratings for The Walking Dead Season 7 episodes from last spring:

02-12-17 “Rock in the Road” 11.996 million; 15.932 million; 16.837 million
02-19-17 “New Best Friends” 11.075 million; 15.243 million; 16.171 million
02-26-17 “Hostiles and Calamities” 10.423 million; 14.740 million; 15.756 million
03-05-17 “Say Yes” 10.163 million; 13.669 million; not reported
03-12-17 “Bury Me Here” 10.676 million; 13.682 million; 14.430 million
03-19-17 “The Other Side” 10.318 million; 13.880 million; 14.776 million
03-26-17 “Something They Need” 10.543 million; 14.014 million; 14.771 million
04-02-17 “The First Day of the Rest of Your Life” 11.314 million; 15.637 million; 16.427 million

Arguably, then, The Walking Dead will remain the #1 cable show of the 2016-2017 season. My understanding is that Game of Thrones will not air in the summer of 2018, which would leave the path clear for Gimple et al to squeak out another #1 for 2017-2018. But yeah...they were saved from losing the crown by a technicality, and going forward, the bloody writing is on the wall.

Edited December 23, 2017 by Raven1707
I like editing!

[AngelaHunter]

Finally had some down time on a snowy Saturday, so decided to check my DVR. Came upon "Walker World" and watched a bit, because I do enjoy behind the scenes stuff - how things are done and all that.

Greg Nicotero is raving about how great this show is "because of Scott Gimple and the writers" (etc). Is he being paid to say that? Threatened? Or does he really believe it?

I had to stop watching there.

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

The only time I found Negan at all interesting was the moment he had with Coral

The only time I sat up and thought, "Well, wait a minute. Maybe he's not a total joke. Maybe we're going to find out he has human inclinations" was when Coral was revealing his massive facial crater while  in Negan's quarters. That lasted for about 8 seconds, then it was back to ToonTown.

Edited December 23, 2017 by AngelaHunter

[Smad]

42 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

Greg Nicotero is raving about how great this show is "because of Scott Gimple and the writers" (etc). Is he being paid to say that? Threatened? Or does he really believe it?

He's Executive Producer on the show. That should tell you everything.

[kelslamu]

Is it bad that I'm not looking forward to the first episode when it comes back?  It will just be a bummer, imo, to watch Carl die and everyone be sad for the hour.  Nothing will move forward once again.  I can't believe the show off'd the kid.  I couldn't stand him back in the "No ones where Carl is" days, but that changed.  

Also, I don't see how the hell Carl dying would make Rick not want to kill Negan.  I don't look forward to a "let's have peace" moment or a "Hey, he will kill any of ours if we step out of line" moment.

Edited December 24, 2017 by kelslamu

[kelslamu]

On 12/11/2017 at 3:10 PM, ghoulina said:

 

Yesssss. WTF was that??? I kept looking around to see who Judith's next babysitter would be. No one was in sight! Maybe Judith is so Shane she can babysit herself at this age?

 

That made me LOL! ty.

[kelslamu]

What if it was a moldy walker who bit him?  Perhaps the toxic mold didn't allow the bite to have much "bite"? LMAO  Just screwing around like the writers seem to be doing.

[Threnners]

To be honest, I feel like Tyreese's death was the last good episode of the show.    Right from the story to the cinematography, it was brilliant and it's all been downhill since.

[AngelaHunter]

22 hours ago, Threnners said:

To be honest, I feel like Tyreese's death was the last good episode of the show. 

Oddly enough, I saw that as the beginning of the downfall. The dollar store Fellinis decided that they wouldn't just tell the story, but turn it into an artistic statement. As usual whenever they do that, it was a miserable fail, IMO. The visions of the Departed giving pithy words of wisdom, Beth playing a guitar and singing with a hole in her head., the radio thing(?), Tyreese bleeding more blood than anyone has in their whole body yet not passing out from blood loss, etc. all had me scratching my head and rolling my eyes. The only part I liked was the Gov morphing into a walker. That gave me a genuine scare.

[Smad]

4 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

Oddly enough, I saw that as the beginning of the downfall. The dollar store Fellinis decided that they wouldn't just tell the story, but turn it into an artistic statement. As usual whenever they do that, it was a miserable fail, IMO. The visions of the Departed giving pithy words of wisdom, Beth playing a guitar and singing with a hole in her head., the radio thing(?), Tyreese bleeding more blood than anyone has in their whole body yet not passing out from blood loss, etc. all had me scratching my head and rolling my eyes. The only part I liked was the Gov morphing into a walker. That gave me a genuine scare.

For me it was even earlier, the whole Grady Memorial nonsense. Slabtown just didn't fit tonally with the previous 3 episodes or the episodes after it. The hospital was also full of bad actors and Gimple & Co. just wouldn't stop trying to make EK a thing. Girl can't act so please stop. And the whole Grady arc was pointless.

Though if I'm completely honest it already went to crap for me in S4. Freaking Gimple. From Carol getting a personality transplant so they could do the 'core member gets banished' storyline to Woodbury 2.0 following a stranger to massacre people they don't even know and still going through with it when said stranger beheads an old man in front of them. And then the plot of a whole episode can be summed up with 'teenage girl needs a drink'. This is also the Season Daryl becomes completely uninteresting and nothing but a 'Marty Sue' who sometimes mumbles things. On and on it goes...

[AngelaHunter]

1 hour ago, Smad said:

For me it was even earlier, the whole Grady Memorial nonsense. Slabtown just didn't fit tonally with the previous 3 episodes or the episodes after it. The hospital was also full of bad actors and Gimple & Co. just wouldn't stop trying to make EK a thing. Girl can't act so please stop. And the whole Grady arc was pointless.

Oh dear. I had forgotten that came before Tyreese's psychedelic demise. Pointless, indeed. I watched in puzzlement, thinking this whole, long ordeal with the strawberries and the sneaky doctor and the rapey cops had to have some salient point, right? Wrong. It had zero point. If they wanted to kill Beth, there were all kinds of expedient ways to do it - have her die from alcohol poisoning, ffs (scratch that. EK was unable to act even the least bit drunk after chugging straight moonshine)or let a "mud snake" bite her, etc. - without putting us through that ridiculous and endless saga with a bunch of stereotypically evil yet boring smirkers we never see or hear from again.

 

1 hour ago, Smad said:

This is also the Season Daryl becomes completely uninteresting and nothing but a 'Marty Sue' who sometimes mumbles things

  That's when I started thinking of him as "Rick's lap dog."

[Smad]

8 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

Oh dear. I had forgotten that came before Tyreese's psychedelic demise. Pointless, indeed. I watched in puzzlement, thinking this whole, long ordeal with the strawberries and the sneaky doctor and the rapey cops had to have some salient point, right? Wrong. It had zero point. If they wanted to kill Beth, there were all kinds of expedient ways to do it - have her die from alcohol poisoning, ffs (scratch that. EK was unable to act even the least bit drunk after chugging straight moonshine)or let a "mud snake" bite her, etc. - without putting us through that ridiculous and endless saga with a bunch of stereotypically evil yet boring smirkers we never see or hear from again.

I know a lot of people argue that without that arc, they never would have gotten to ASZ. But really, why not use the voice on the radio that Daryl/Michonne/Bob/Tyreese heard in the car? Let them pick that up again and let it be the Saviors. Nothing concrete (like the Savior name) but they pick up a transmission again and hear someone mention a general location. Boom Team Rick are on their way there. It would have spared us that stupid Grady arc which brought 5A to a grinding halt every time we got there. It might have been worth it if Noah stuck around and then became a major character. So you could sort of justify the arc then but they killed him off a few episodes later.

 

8 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

  That's when I started thinking of him as "Rick's lap dog."

I already thought that in S3. When Rick let Merle stay at the prison despite everyone being against it, that's when Daryl fully became Rick's 'lap dog'. I remember all the anticipation people had for Daryl's reaction to Rick banishing Carol. I had to laugh at that because really, have you people not been paying attention? Daryl is Rick's faithful lap dog, nothing will come of this confrontation. And nothing did. Daryl was nothing more than a video game character who cheats by activating God mode. S1-3 Daryl was at least an interesting character and not just a tool.

Edited December 26, 2017 by Smad

[AngelaHunter]

On ‎12‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 11:24 PM, Smad said:

S1-3 Daryl was at least an interesting character and not just a tool.

He's a tool - in both senses of the word - and he and Rick have been turned into irresponsible children who get into silly fights and act on impulse with no concept of consequences. It's actually bizarre to watch.

As to Coral, I'm thinking part of the decision to bump him off might be due to the fact that's he noticeably becoming a man and to have him continue to behave like a 12-year old (the childish threats to Negan at the Sanctuary, the crying and singing - yes if he were 11 then as he was in the comic, all that would be acceptable and Negan's fascination with him understandable) he's just going to look mentally delayed. By next season, he'd be taller than Rick and for sure is already growing a beard, probably a much better one than Glenn ever came up with. Nope, he just can't pass as a pre-pubescent anymore. It's the WAY they chose to get rid of him that's beyond dumb and insulting to everyone.

[CletusMusashi]

On 12/12/2017 at 7:42 PM, KirkB said:

I think the difference is, Carl was just about ready to be a leader now. Judith won't be in any state to do that for a good sixteen or seventeen years. At least.

Just lock her in a boxcar overnight. Instant puberty!

[nodorothyparker]

On 12/25/2017 at 11:24 PM, Smad said:

I remember all the anticipation people had for Daryl's reaction to Rick banishing Carol. I had to laugh at that because really, have you people not been paying attention? Daryl is Rick's faithful lap dog, nothing will come of this confrontation. And nothing did. Daryl was nothing more than a video game character who cheats by activating God mode. S1-3 Daryl was at least an interesting character and not just a tool.

Oh hell, I remember this.  That should have been a tipoff to which way the wind was blowing for the screwing with the timelines and undercutting things that should have been a big deal on this show.  (In Gimple's inaugural season as showrunner, no less.)  The Rick and Carol episode, which I liked, was the fourth episode of season 4.  Then they got all distracted with sickness and chasing around for medicine and a two-part ode to the The Guv/Brian/Phillip and didn't get around to Rick mentioning it until four episodes later in the midseason finale, where despite the buildup it got all of about 30 seconds before The Guv rolled in with a tank and Herschel lost his head and all was forgotten.  Daryl's episodes in the back half of that season were all about moping over how he'd lost his clubhouse.

[rmontro]

Really, Gimple may as well go ahead and kill Daryl, and piss off the rest of the viewers.  Then he can focus the rest of the series on that lady who leads the trash people.

[AngelaHunter]

7 minutes ago, rmontro said:

Then he can focus the rest of the series on that lady who leads the trash people.

Maybe they can make a spinoff comedy where Tara, Aaron and baby Grace live together. All kinds of whacky hijinks could ensue, especially when Uncle Daryl comes for dinner.

[Gobi]

8 minutes ago, rmontro said:

Really, Gimple may as well go ahead and kill Daryl, and piss off the rest of the viewers.  Then he can focus the rest of the series on that lady who leads the trash people.

More likely, he'll turn it into a sitcom featuring Negan and Garbage Pail Lady as newlyweds in "The Walking Dead Honeymooners." With Negan's new catchphrase, "One day, Jadis, POW! Lucille right to the head!"

[rmontro]

31 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

Maybe they can make a spinoff comedy where Tara, Aaron and baby Grace live together. All kinds of whacky hijinks could ensue, especially when Uncle Daryl comes for dinner.

 

29 minutes ago, Gobi said:

More likely, he'll turn it into a sitcom featuring Negan and Garbage Pail Lady as newlyweds in "The Walking Dead Honeymooners." With Negan's new catchphrase, "One day, Jadis, POW! Lucille right to the head!"

I would rather watch either of these shows than Fear the Walking Dead.

[AngelaHunter]

52 minutes ago, Gobi said:

More likely, he'll turn it into a sitcom featuring Negan and Garbage Pail Lady as newlyweds in "The Walking Dead Honeymooners." With Negan's new catchphrase, "One day, Jadis, POW! Lucille right to the head!"

Hahahahaha! roflmfao!  Love it. "To the moon, Jadis! To the moon!" They can have a kind of Felix and Oscar thing going on.

[AngelaHunter]

Come on, you guys! I've got a houseful of guests tomorrow. Got stuff to do. Thangs! And you make me sit and do this instead of my chores?

 

1 hour ago, Gobi said:

"The Walking Dead Honeymooners."

[nodorothyparker]

Funny except that we know Negan would manage to get at least two full paragraphs in there with probably three references to his dick and Jadis would only use about half as many words.

Edit to add that I seriously can't believe this is what this show has come to.

[AngelaHunter]

On ‎12‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 3:11 PM, nodorothyparker said:

Negan would manage to get at least two full paragraphs in there with probably three references to his dick and Jadis would only use about half as many words.

Well, hell. I guess I'll need a re-do. Pissin' my pants here!

 

Okay. Better?

Edited December 30, 2017 by AngelaHunter
because title wasn't showing and I'm OCD that way.

[AllyS]

On 12/23/2017 at 2:34 PM, catrox14 said:

IMO, I think Negan is character that suits the comic form vs live action. The only time I found Negan at all interesting was the moment he had with Coral when it seemed like he was taken aback that Coral was willing and maybe even wanted to die. 

And that is why the demise of Carl is SO wrong. Clearly Negan is sticking around for a very long time and there goes so many lost opportunities. Negan seems to have an odd respect for Carl, and Carl seems to be able to humanize Negan. I found the scenes the two shared together to be believable. I do believe Carl's death will "effect" Negan in some particular way.

[Smad]

8 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

Oh hell, I remember this.  That should have been a tipoff to which way the wind was blowing for the screwing with the timelines and undercutting things that should have been a big deal on this show.  (In Gimple's inaugural season as showrunner, no less.)  The Rick and Carol episode, which I liked, was the fourth episode of season 4.  Then they got all distracted with sickness and chasing around for medicine and a two-part ode to the The Guv/Brian/Phillip and didn't get around to Rick mentioning it until four episodes later in the midseason finale, where despite the buildup it got all of about 30 seconds before The Guv rolled in with a tank and Herschel lost his head and all was forgotten.  Daryl's episodes in the back half of that season were all about moping over how he'd lost his clubhouse.

Those poor actors really. They try with their characters and then Gimple comes along and gives them a personality transplant for some poorly conceived plot. But that whole sickness storyline, while a neat idea, was piss poor planning. People where dying left and right yet there was no urgency. Rick would rather wait around for some fruit hippies so he can get his watch back, Tyreese needss to wash his shirt or mope in a car. Even the foursome leaving the prison to get to the vet clinic, they took forever packing up the car and leaving. Every minute counted with the sickness yet no one acted like it. It's ironic to me that Hershel's sentimentality and humanity got more people killed than Carol, yet he is the hero and she is the villain. Where did all the medical supplies come from that he used in 4x05 and why didn't anyone bother using them on Karen&David? K&D were dead because they were red shirt so of course none of the medical personal in the prison bothered with them, just left them in isolation to die. Funny that when it was Glenn and Sasha on the line, suddenly there is tea to make and medical supplies to use. And lets have Rick chicken out of telling Daryl by having him go eat some beans with his son, then have 2 Gov episodes interrupt the whole sickness storyline to delay Rick/Daryl even further until we finally get the confrontation that in the end amounted to nothing. That is stupid. The only reason to delay something is because in the end there is a big payoff. If Daryl had gone off on Rick and then said he was going to leave to look for her only to be interrupted by the Gov attacking, then the delaying would have been worth it. Instead it was a big bunch of nothing.

8 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

Maybe they can make a spinoff comedy where Tara, Aaron and baby Grace live together. All kinds of whacky hijinks could ensue, especially when Uncle Daryl comes for dinner.

Nah, just have them put a bowl of water and another bowl of fish or squirrel or something on the porch of their little house. You don't invite the filthy alley cat into your home.

[AngelaHunter]

10 minutes ago, Smad said:

K&D were dead because they were red shirt so of course none of the medical personal in the prison bothered with them, just left them in isolation to die.

But we got 5 minutes of Karen sitting on Tyreese's lap and then he goes and picks a nosegay of flowers for her, so that we know they had a Big Major Love Connection and we would care when we found out Carol bumped her off and torched the corpse. Then we got Tyreese carrying on more than did Carol, who had lost her child. It didn't work for me, not the romance nor the tragic demise nor the tedious aftermath. Frankly, I didn't give a shit about Karen or David.

I did love the fruit hippies though and was more upset at their demise than I was at almost anyone else's (except for the two little girls) and certainly more than at Karen's or Neil's.

14 minutes ago, Smad said:

Nah, just have them put a bowl of water and another bowl of fish or squirrel or something on the porch of their little house.

Or a dead possum. Or a worm. That worm, btw, grossed me out more than anything else I've seen on this show. I still have never watched Daryl scarf it up.

14 minutes ago, Smad said:

You don't invite the filthy alley cat into your home.

I've had filthy alley cats in my home, but Daryl? Yeah, you're right. I remember when he entered Deanna's house and all I could think was, "Is she going to let him sit on her sofa with those disgusting pants?"

[Smad]

4 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

But we got 5 minutes of Karen sitting on Tyreese's lap and then he goes and picks a nosegay of flowers for her, so that we know they had a Big Major Love Connection and we would care when we found out Carol bumped her off and torched the corpse. Then we got Tyreese carrying on more than did Carol, who had lost her child. It didn't work for me, not the romance nor the tragic demise nor the tedious aftermath. Frankly, I didn't give a shit about Karen or David.

I wish someone had gotten Tyreese a copy of 'She's just not that into you'. I don't know how long their relationship was going at that point but take a hint big fella. The woman didn't even want to spend the night with him in a non-sexual way. Yet he acted as if they had been married for 10 years when she got killed. Delusion is no one's friend. And was I supposed to feel anything for a woman who lived in a town that spend their evenings gladiator fighting with zombies, put 2 people in a ring to fight to the death, recruited child soldiers and then went on an assault on the prison to kill every man, woman and CHILD in there? As for David...were we ever even shown a face attached to the name?

 

4 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

I've had filthy alley cats in my home, but Daryl? Yeah, you're right. I remember when he entered Deanna's house and all I could think was, "Is she going to let him sit on her sofa with those disgusting pants?"

Yeah but an alley cat at least has an excuse for being filthy. Daryl has non for why he doesn't wash himself or his hair. Or that his table manners resemble that of a cave man. It's one thing to be 'white trash', it's another thing altogether for acting as if you don't know how to eat in a civilized manner. Although that's also something Gimple gave him, the inability to shower/wash and the table manners. Back on the farm he was capable of using a fork when they ate breakfast.

Edited December 29, 2017 by Smad

[rmontro]

13 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

Funny except that we know Negan would manage to get at least two full paragraphs in there with probably three references to his dick and Jadis would only use about half as many words.

Ralph used to make those long monologues at the end of many Honeymooners episodes about how he screwed up, didn't deserve Alice, and what a mope he was.  I could definitely see Negan delivering these, leaning back all the while.

But who could play Norton?  Jerry?  Daryl?  Dwight?

[AngelaHunter]

8 hours ago, Smad said:

And was I supposed to feel anything for a woman who lived in a town that spend their evenings gladiator fighting with zombies, put 2 people in a ring to fight to the death, recruited child soldiers and then went on an assault on the prison to kill every man, woman and CHILD in there?

But did they know there were kids at the prison? We never heard Andrea mention them to the Gov,  Rick never mentioned them during the confrontation and I remember thinking, "Trot out all those kids there,(at a safe distance of course) FFS!" I'm pretty sure the majority of the Gov's' army would have refused to gun down little children. But no - instead of doing something that might ward off the attack, Rick monologues.

 

8 hours ago, Smad said:

As for David...were we ever even shown a face attached to the name?

I just looked him up. The face is familiar (actually, the ears are) but I don't know if he ever had any lines. I don't think anyone gave a shit about Karen or David or Tyreese Great Love Lost. Rick was just worried that Carol might start torching anyone who had a sniffle.

 

8 hours ago, Smad said:

I wish someone had gotten Tyreese a copy of 'She's just not that into you'.

Bwahaha!

 

8 hours ago, Smad said:

Although that's also something Gimple gave him, the inability to shower/wash and the table manners.

I dunno about that. Even at the prison after eating he'd suck each of his fingers down to the second knuckle. Fangirls loved it. *shrug*

[Smad]

21 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

But did they know there were kids at the prison? We never heard Andrea mention them to the Gov,  Rick never mentioned them during the confrontation and I remember thinking, "Trot out all those kids there,(at a safe distance of course) FFS!" I'm pretty sure the majority of the Gov's' army would have refused to gun down little children. But no - instead of doing something that might ward off the attack, Rick monologues.

There were kids at WB, were there not? If you are going to assault a stronghold of people in the ZA,, the natural assumption is that there are people of all ages. And that included kids. Didn't Tyreese mention children? Although that might have been to the Gov and his henchmen only so no one else heard it. Rick monologues instead of someone shooting the enemy...mmm that sounds very familiar. Were there any windows nearby?

21 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

I just looked him up. The face is familiar (actually, the ears are) but I don't know if he ever had any lines. I don't think anyone gave a shit about Karen or David or Tyreese Great Love Lost. Rick was just worried that Carol might start torching anyone who had a sniffle.

I seriously don't remember ever seeing David on screen. Carol doesn't kill people just because, no matter that character assassinating plot. She didn't even kill Ryan (Lizzie and Mica's father) before he died. I hate that storyline. I chose to believe K&D were at the 'drowning in their blood' stage when Carol visited and she just didn't have the time to clean up the mess left behind. Either way they were dead since no one bothered to bring them tea or use tubes and what not to help them. They just put them somewhere and left them to die.

 

21 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

I dunno about that. Even at the prison after eating he'd suck each of his fingers down to the second knuckle. Fangirls loved it. *shrug*

Well that's the S4 Premiere, aka Gimple. So my point stands.

Edited December 29, 2017 by Smad

[Raven1707]

Wrapping up the ratings year:

Top 100 primetime telecasts (including ties) among adults 18-49 in 2017

All ratings below are live + same-day, and the list includes only primetime programs. Sports pre- and post-game shows aren’t included in the list.

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/more-tv-news/the-100-highest-rated-tv-programs-of-2017-60-sports-40-everything-else/

All sixteen episodes of The Walking Dead that aired in 2017 landed in the Top 100:

30     The Walking Dead             AMC     Feb. 12     5.7     7.34
35     The Walking Dead             AMC     April 2     5.4     6.95
37     The Walking Dead             AMC     Feb. 19     5.3     6.77
42     The Walking Dead             AMC     Oct. 22     5.0     6.49
44     The Walking Dead             AMC     Feb. 26     4.9     6.35
    The Walking Dead             AMC     March 12     4.9     6.27
    The Walking Dead             AMC     March 26     4.9     6.27
50     The Walking Dead             AMC     March 19     4.7     6.06
    The Walking Dead             AMC     March 5     4.7     6.04
69     The Walking Dead             AMC     Oct. 29     4.0     5.15
71     The Walking Dead             AMC     Nov. 12     3.9     4.95*
77     The Walking Dead             AMC     Nov. 5         3.8     4.88
82     The Walking Dead             AMC     Nov. 26     3.6     4.57*
91     The Walking Dead             AMC     Nov. 19     3.4     4.38*
    The Walking Dead             AMC     Dec. 10     3.4     4.30*
96     The Walking Dead             AMC     Dec. 3         3.3     4.20*

The highest rated scripted show (Hey, there’s Heath!)  in the Top 100 aired after The Super Bowl:

24     24: Legacy                 FOX     Feb. 5         6.1     7.84

Edited December 29, 2017 by Raven1707
Typo

[kelslamu]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krQHQvtIr6w

I think Heisenberg beat rick here.

Edited January 1, 2018 by kelslamu

[talktalk]

This show has become garbage.  Not sure if I am going to continue to watch any more. 

[AngelaHunter]

The truth hurts:

 

[rab01]

This half-season kept building up unwatched on my DVR until I binged it over the holidays.  that meant I wasn't so annoyed by the fractured story telling because I didn't have to wait for resolution of the interesting bits  But, I ended up not enjoying any of it much except King Ezekiel's optimistic phase, the garbage lady saying Rick talks too much and Rick telling Negan the same thing.  In a good war movie (or TV show), you have to either focus on the powerless grunts and emphasize the tragedy, horror and confusion, or visually explain to the viewer exactly what the objectives are and give us a way to tell whether our protagonists are succeeding or failing.  This show wanted to be the latter type but never let us know how many troops each side has, how much ammo, or how many guns.  We knew that Rick's group had to take all the satellites or they might free Negan but the show never told us how many satellites there were. So, every episode had another group of heavily armed saviors of just the necessary size to pose a possibly surmountable obstacle.

Most importantly, they never showed us (1) how Eugene broke them out, (2) how they took out the snipers watching the Savior compound; (3) why Rick felt that he needed the trash people; (4) whether Rick had an actual plan for the trash people or just a stupid bluff; (5) why Rick's people had a communication system for the first part of the assault but no runners in and out of ASZ to keep Michonne in the loop; (6) why Rick and Darryl had to have a fight that wasted valuable explosives; and so many other things necessary to give us a real feeling of dread or triumph at any point in the season.  Here's a prediction -- they are going to show us the Savior breakout from their camp early next season as a flashback and none of us will give a shit because they don't understand the basics of story structure.*   

As for Carl's death, that was too stupid. Not that he got bit senselessly because that's part of what the show should be about.  But that he died to a threat that wasn't all that threatening.  That character would never have been surprised by walkers or been bit in a fight with so few of them at any point in the last four years. So just block the fight better for god's sake.  Also, Gimple's reason for it is infuriating and I won't quote it here because, even though it's published, it sounds like a disappointing spoiler for the next couple seasons.  

I think I'm done with the show.

* One more thing on structure, they showed us many scenes of the Saviors discussing tactics, options and plot choices but all of their consequential acts occurred off-screen while our "heroes" talked about feelings, philosophy, and heartbreak with their consequential acts being shown but unexplained.  That is just so fucking stupid and would have been so easily fixed

[AngelaHunter]

57 minutes ago, rab01 said:

because I didn't have to wait for resolution of the interesting bits 

I must have blinked and missed those bits.

58 minutes ago, rab01 said:

That is just so fucking stupid and would have been so easily fixed

Amen, but it couldn't be easily fixed by TPTB. In order to do that, they needed to have grasped obscure and complicated concepts, like continuity, common sense and the actions and behaviors of real human beings. No way that was happening.

[heisenberg]

On 03/01/2018 at 0:12 PM, rab01 said:

  Here's a prediction -- they are going to show us the Savior breakout from their camp early next season as a flashback and none of us will give a shit because they don't understand the basics of story structure.*   
 

* One more thing on structure, they showed us many scenes of the Saviors discussing tactics, options and plot choices but all of their consequential acts occurred off-screen while our "heroes" talked about feelings, philosophy, and heartbreak with their consequential acts being shown but unexplained.  That is just so fucking stupid and would have been so easily fixed

Yep.