S02.E03: Lisbon

[Roseanna]

On ‎1‎.‎1‎.‎2018 at 0:17 AM, CousinAmy said:

Eileen was used as the anti-Elizabeth to show a modern woman of the same age, with 2 kids, who wore pants! and was not afraid to talk back to high officials, or even the Queen! She was perhaps, what Elizabeth may have turned into if she had been out in the world. But Liz remained very proper, and maintained that early 20th century version of royalty that she may have learned from Grandmama, Queen Mary.

I don't believe Elizabeth would ever become like Eileen. Their differences are not only due to the circumstances but the characters. 

From the different  POV, Elizabeth was a modern women as she had her full-time job although not of her own choosing whereas Eileen was a home mom. 

Edited January 6, 2018 by Roseanna
A sentence with italics added

[CousinAmy]

I read an excerpt in the Daily Mail from Eileen's autobiography where she talks about all the times the two couple spent together - going to movies, having dinner, etc. It sounded like they were actually friends during the years before Elizabeth became the Queen. I didn't realize that they had been so close. 

Eileen is, like Elizabeth, in her 90s now, but living in a "carer home." 

[Hanahope]

I think part of Phillip’s whining was being told what to wear by the moustaches, the way he was summoned to the royal yacht admiral’s office, just the overall being told what to do.

being a prince gives him more rank and I too was surprised it wasn’t always that way.   But he could have handled it much better.

I chuckled over the queen sitting in her car waiting for Eileen.

[dubbel zout]

3 hours ago, Hanahope said:

he way he was summoned to the royal yacht admiral’s office

As a naval officer himself, though, Philip knew better. The captain of the ship is boss and has the last word onboard. Always. He was being a super petulant baby.

[J-Man]

I guess they couldn't make Tommy shave his moustache, since he was retired. Thank goodness!

[PeterPirate]

I can imagine a conversation between Queen Elizabeth and Tommy Lascelles if he wasn't retired:

QE:  There's no pretty way of saying this.  I would prefer you shave your mustache.  
TL:  And that is your right, ma'am.  But it would be a mistake.
QE: And why is that, please?
TL:  Because people love it.  Also, it is a duplicate of Lord Kitchener's, so that people will not forget the Somme.  But, as always, it is your call.  

[Dirtybubble]

On 12/11/2017 at 6:55 PM, Ceindreadh said:

I hadn’t realized until this episode that wasn’t always ‘Prince’ Philip, but merely a Duke who would have been outranked by any Prince or Princess or (former) Queen of the realm. 

In some ways, it was a bit unfair. A female consort (Queen Mary, the Queen Mother) if crowned alongside their husband would have the title of Queen and be second only to the King in order of precedence. But Philip wasn’t given that status when Elizabeth was crowned and in the interests of equality, that’s when he should have been made a Prince. 

Such a good point!  I know I'm late to this party but I just watched this episode and I have to say I feel a bit sad for Phillip.  I don't know if it's the wonderful acting by Matt Smith but I can't help but feel a bit of pity for him.  Did he act like a jerk, yes!  Is he completely innocent, no.  BUT this idea of well he knew what he was getting into when he married Elizabeth is unfair.

Yeah he knew he was marrying the future QofE but he did not know how soon that would be in their marriage or how much would be taken away from him (see S1).  Knowing what is going to occur and actually living day in and day out without any escape is something totally different. 

And from what I've read him being treated like a foreigner/outsider is very true. 

[Iju]

lol, i haven't seen an episode of the series, and here i am watching this one of with my mother and sister and liz is so braindead. i had to crack tf up when they had that little spat in the room. good lord, liz is so freaking blind. "I am outranked by my eight year old son." "Of course, he is the heir to the throne." *huge silence as phillip waits for liz to understand, it doesn't happen so he has to tell her stupid ass*: "I am his father." 

*mind-blowing unsues on liz's part*

good lord, is this what the audience has to suffer with every single episode? her stupidity? was the queen this insufferable IRL? 

and about phillip's whining: whining is a end result, he didn't start out doing that. for every action, there is a equal reaction. whining/complaining is a result of repeatedly not getting what you want. hence, when people get what they want, you don't hear a damn word from them. and i haven't seen all this show, but i'm not denying it can get annoying. and when liz could have had a chance to help him on his being trapped, she sends him away. seriously wtf, all he wanted to do was not wear stupid outfits and say what he wants at least in his own home. i don't believe i would survive this show if it's like this all the time.

[Zella]

On 12/11/2017 at 6:48 PM, SeanC said:

Sometimes when watching this show I wonder what a version of The Crown that was more in the style of British period dramas about more remote eras would be like.  In that version of the show, Lascelles and Adeane probably murder Eileen to keep a lid on things.

Just catching up with season 2. I have been missing Tommy and squealed with delight when his mustache appeared.

So, this what if scenario made me laugh for a really long time. I'd watch this spinoff. 

[oakville]

On 12/10/2017 at 4:17 PM, andromeda331 said:

I felt bad for the guy having to try and tell his queen about the possible infidelity of her husband. That would be really hard to do not to mention awkward. I liked that he did it badly. I'm impressed that he didn't pass the buck to Tommy to do it.

True, but I am glad that Tommy came to help him out when he had to tell the Queen about the newspaper reports from the Baltimore Sun. The Queen's mother did not know where Baltimore was.

[oakville]

Why was everyone so quiet after Philip became a Prince ?. They were just staring at each other. Philip was almost smirking at them  like an evil villain.

The Queen gets her Private Secretary Michael to shave his mustache to appease Prince Philip.

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, oakville said:

True, but I am glad that Tommy came to help him out when he had to tell the Queen about the newspaper reports from the Baltimore Sun. The Queen's mother did not know where Baltimore was.

This made me laugh really, really hard. Do you know who grew up in Baltimore? Wallis Simpson. I expected the Queen Mother to make some sort of comment about the city or Wallis. 

[kieyra]

Tudor girl here, know almost nothing about the modern monarchy, except the top-tier tabloid stuff circa Charles and Diana. Love Claire Foy, but this show didn’t click for me the first time I tried. Summer TV dead zone, tried again.

Philip aggravates the living shit out of me, and kudos to Matt Smith for making him so annoying. I’ve read some of this thread and I understand the counterpoints. I also know the historical precedents for whiny king consorts, including Philip of Spain and Lady Jane Gray’s husband who went crying to his mother when Jane said she wouldn’t/couldn’t make him king. Oh, and good old Lord Darnley. I’m less versed in Victorian history, but didn’t Albert even bitch a bit about his wife taking precedence?

In fact, maybe I was already fatigued by this concept, so seeing Philip with his permanent bitchface was ... intense. Don’t care if it’s the fifties, don’t care if you’re an “alpha” male, show some goddamned dignity.

It doesn’t help that he can’t seem to muster even a scrap of feigned affection (that we are shown) towards Elizabeth. Just an overgrown sulky teenager. 

[andromeda331]

6 hours ago, kieyra said:

Tudor girl here, know almost nothing about the modern monarchy, except the top-tier tabloid stuff circa Charles and Diana. Love Claire Foy, but this show didn’t click for me the first time I tried. Summer TV dead zone, tried again.

Philip aggravates the living shit out of me, and kudos to Matt Smith for making him so annoying. I’ve read some of this thread and I understand the counterpoints. I also know the historical precedents for whiny king consorts, including Philip of Spain and Lady Jane Gray’s husband who went crying to his mother when Jane said she wouldn’t/couldn’t make him king. Oh, and good old Lord Darnley. I’m less versed in Victorian history, but didn’t Albert even bitch a bit about his wife taking precedence?

In fact, maybe I was already fatigued by this concept, so seeing Philip with his permanent bitchface was ... intense. Don’t care if it’s the fifties, don’t care if you’re an “alpha” male, show some goddamned dignity.

It doesn’t help that he can’t seem to muster even a scrap of feigned affection (that we are shown) towards Elizabeth. Just an overgrown sulky teenager. 

Same here. I've tried to take in account the 50s and stuff but I really can't stand Philip. He whines all the time. He never stops whining, acting like a child or being an asshole. He always seems to blame Elizabeth even though she didn't want the job either and being an ass to her. Its also really hard for me to feel sorry for him when he knew from the beginning Elizabeth would be Queen. Yeah it ended up happening a lot sooner then either expected but he won't suck it up and act like adult. We don't see him doing anything to really help his wife just complain and blame her for everything. Its like the end scene with that stupid ceremony.  He won't do anything to earn respect working hard, doing his duties, supporting and helping his wife. Nope, not at all. But he thinks a stupid ceremony is totally going to make everyone respect him. 

[Umbelina]

I kind of "get" Philip's dissatisfaction.  

I wonder if it would have helped to see more of their early marriage, which was reportedly happy.  The "traditional" roles of husband and wife back then were pretty defined, in many ways Philip fit right into that mold easily (and why not?  It was heavily slanted to benefit men.)

Still, it's obviously the issue that female spouses ARE traditionally crowned as well, if the monarch is male, his wife becomes Queen.  The problem is, giving Philip power, or even the title of King, and he would take over, so he was a second class royal.  The "battle of the sexes" cut both ways in his case.

I get that he was a typical "manly male" of the times, and having his wife hold all the power was uncomfortable and kind of devoid of  guidance for him.  The was a reason Elizabeth I never married.

Yes, he was an ass a lot of the time, but I found it pretty realistic, especially as they filled in his background story.  I wonder if Elizabeth II would have divorced him if divorce was no big deal?  Probably not, in spite of everything, she seemed to really love him.  She was aware enough, and smart enough though, to ensure he wasn't crowned.

[dubbel zout]

31 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

She was aware enough, and smart enough though, to ensure he wasn't crowned.

She was helped a lot by the turmoil of Edward VIII's abdication there. The British public remained in no mood for monarch shenanigans.

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

She was helped a lot by the turmoil of Edward VIII's abdication there. The British public remained in no mood for monarch shenanigans.

There's a bit of a difference which is why Queens don't crown their husbands king. If their husband is crowned King he's the power not her which is why they are usually princes or prince consorts. Not just in England but elsewhere because naming their husband king does usurp their authority and position. A King naming his wife Queen, doesn't do that. Also, they don't want to get into the habit of making and unmaking kings. Edward VIII was so bad that their scared to even make the smallest change in their traditional stuff for fear it might lead to that.

But when you think about the letter Queen Mary wrote to Elizabeth after her father died about unable to separate personal stuff from duty. Her warning to Elizabeth how it brought down 3 monarchies. We never see Philip do that. Elizabeth of course. But he doesn't get what he wants he whines, yells and throws a tantrum. Margaret's easy of course she won't do it either. But Philip doesn't either. His father-in-law tried to talk to him before he died and of course Philip doesn't listen. He doesn't do anything to support her. He's happy to complain, whine and complain to Margaret about his wife.   

I do wish we got to see more of their early years and happy moments. That would have helped a lot. Its really hard to see why Elizabeth puts up with him or loves him so much when we didn't see any of that and don't see him doing anything to loving or supportive.  

[dubbel zout]

Oh, I know that. Elizabeth had an excellent built-in reason with the abdication to keep Philip in line, as it were.

[Gregg247]

When Phillip suggested a competition to grow a beard, I was convinced he'd lose for sure since he can barely seem to grow a pair of eyebrows!

During his "princehood ceremony", I felt kind of bad for him.  The entire ceremony was obviously just a way to appease him, and the audience that attended didn't hide the fact that they were jus there for 'show".  Also, Phillip, dressed in his royal garments", looked like the Birthday Boy at a Chuckie Cheese.  I actually yelled at the TV screen, "Let's all clap for Phillip!  Yay for big-boy Phillip!" LOL

[Lonesome Rhodes]

I thought Elizabeth's deep understanding as expressed to Eden about the rise and fall of governments in history belied the earlier portrayals of her ignorance and naivete - a central theme.  I also thought she went easy on Eden.  That could have been much sharper.

Did Tommy time his arrival so as to steal those moments with Elizabeth in the portico?  I say yes.  I am undecided whether Elizabeth knew/remembered the specifics of the gifts she conveyed to Tommy.  Whichever, I loved this scene.

I took Mike's insistence on calling Philip, "Sir." was a final reminder to both of them that they were never more than schoolboys playing out games.  Mike was not actually a friend, nor family.  Philip has none.  To me, that was a clean slice by Mike.

There were some Michael Corleone moments from Elizabeth in this ep.  Whoa.

ETA:   Perhaps the most gorgeous and meaningful shot of the series this far was when Eden emerged from the plane when he arrived home from Jamaica.  A bright orange sun was setting and the light dimming.  It was beautiful and it was an obvious metaphor signifying the end of the Commonwealth as known.  Indeed, the sun now does set on it.

 

 

Edited January 30, 2022 by Lonesome Rhodes

[Quickbeam]

I’m watching this for the first time now, having caved into the global whining of all my friends. I watch now knowing that the 2 key players have passed on in extreme old age. I don’t know many people who could walk behind their spouse for 70 years. I thought Philip’s desire for more respect was legitimate. 
 

While the actor is killing it, I do think that the real Philip (and for that matter the real David/Edward) were far more handsome than the men portraying them.