S02.E10: Mystery Man

[Athena5217]

I didn’t understand why everyone was so interested in identifying the man in the photo. Is it just because everyone else was identifiable but him? He wasn’t doing anything incriminating in the photo except be at the party.

I also find the idea that Margaret could recognize the back of Philip’s neck ridiculous. I have been marrried for 10 years, and I sometimes mistake other men  for my husband from the back in the grocery store.  Once I get within 2 feet, I can tell, but from a distance there are a lot of white men in their 40s of medium height with not much hair that all look alike.  Also, many of them wear jeans and striped shirts to the store!

[dubbel zout]

48 minutes ago, Athena5217 said:

I also find the idea that Margaret could recognize the back of Philip’s neck ridiculous.

I think Margaret was being provocative more than anything else. She seemed to be quite the shit-stirrer.

[WatchrTina]

I'm re-watching this episode and I have to say that although I consider myself to be quite well-educated, someone who reads broadly and has an extensive vocabulary, this is the first instance of my ever hearing the word apposite.

ETA:  The closing moments of this season are brilliant.  That scene between Philip and Elizabeth with so many long, meaningful moments of silence is a tour-de-force performance -- a fitting end to Claire Foy and Matt Smith's turn in these roles.  And I just loved the chaotic family photo session that follows, during which Philip brings everyone to attention through his sheer force of will, and the little smile on the face of the Queen as she takes his hand after the photo is finally taken.

I also just LOVED the scene earlier in the episode when Philip comes home to Buckingham Palace (when the press are up in arms about Elizabeth's having proposed a prime minister -- apparently in violation of protocol) and Philip just misses her (you see the royal standard being taken down).  Instead he finds Margaret -- who has also come (in vain) to lend moral support along with Lord Snowden stretched out on the carpet (and who, notably, does not get up when Philip enters the room.)  There is just something so familial about that scene and at the same time so completely other-worldly (royal-worldly) given the issue at hand and the setting.  Brilliant.

Edited December 17, 2017 by WatchrTina

[dustoffmom]

Quote

I'm re-watching this episode and I have to say that although I consider myself to be quite well-educated, someone who reads broadly and has an extensive vocabulary, this is the first instance of my ever hearing the word apposite.

1

As do I, and like you, it was my first encounter with the word.  And yes, I looked it up after my initial viewing.

[7-Zark-7]

On 12/8/2017 at 8:12 PM, PinkRibbons said:

The fight/reconciliation scene was powerful and beautifully acted, but I still want to know why the fuck Philip had that ballerina picture.

Because he was fucking around with other women and was sweet on this one in particular. One thing I really like about this series, and this season especially, is that it pulls no punches about people's disreputable behavior. They humanized Prince Philip, but they didn't shy away from his caddish ways or his bullying of Prince Charles.

 

On 12/12/2017 at 7:24 PM, Rowan said:

All I have to say to the actress succeeding Claire Foy is, "Good luck, lady."

Olivia Coleman won't need it. She's a powerhouse. Great choice.

 

Last season I liked The Crown, but this season, I loved it. I'm so sorry it's over.

[Rinaldo]

On 12/10/2017 at 9:20 AM, Roseanna said:

The court's harsh judgment was cut in between the show that mocked and showed hypocrisy of the Establishment.    

They didn't name it, but it was clearly Beyond the Fringe, one of the most famous revues ever (confirmed by the character names in the credits). It started a vogue for a new kind of irreverent humor and satire, and itself remains one of the best examples of the form -- it played internationally including a long Broadway run. It was written by its cast, all of whom went on to successful careers acting, writing, or directing: Peter Cook, Dudley Moore, Jonathan Miller, and Alan Bennett. The juxtaposition of this kind of wide-ranging irreverence with the spluttering about unthinkable immorality in court worked very effectively.

Cecil Beaton may indeed have been that hidebound as a court photographer (I have no idea). But he had other talents. Take a look at the costumes he designed for My Fair Lady.

[WatchrTina]

53 minutes ago, Rinaldo said:

They didn't name it, but it was clearly Beyond the Fringe

They did name it.  They showed a program in someone's hand that said "Beyond the Fringe."

[Rinaldo]

Thanks (genuinely) for the correction. That's what happens when you glance away for a second. Anyway, Beyond the Fringe really was that big a deal. The NY company (which was the original 4) actually made a second original-cast album a year into its run, to preserve sketches and songs that didn't fit on the first LP. It was also discovered relatively recently that a performance was filmed, so we can now see the whole thing on DVD.

[Booger666]

On 12/8/2017 at 10:12 PM, PinkRibbons said:

The fight/reconciliation scene was powerful and beautifully acted, but I still want to know why the fuck Philip had that ballerina picture.

I think the writers used it to imply that while all of the rumors about Phillip weren’t true some likely were.  Phillip denies, denies, denies about the Ward parties but when confronted with the photo is uncharacteristically silent.  I thought this was believable and allowed the writers to convey that while there isn’t any hard evidence so they can’t confirm an affair they are pretty darn confident there was some infidelity on Phillip’s part.

[Rinaldo]

And using that particular non-fictional ballerina gives them deniability -- they can say if challenged "Yes of course, there's no way he was really involved with Ulanova," while without saying so, they've established the idea that there may have been someone at some point.

[chitowngirl]

14 hours ago, Rinaldo said:

 

Cecil Beaton may indeed have been that hidebound as a court photographer (I have no idea). But he had other talents. Take a look at the costumes he designed for My Fair Lady.

THAT'S why his name is familiar to me! Thank you!!

[Kerfuffler]

Philip is so full of shit at the end of this episode. He's implying that he's always been there for her and always will be, but in reality he's there for her when he feels like it/when his guilt catches up to him. The only sincerity in that scene is his naked desire that she believe she can trust him and lean on him, but even he knows he doesn't deserve that trust. He can't even look her in the eye when he says he loves her. 

[WatchrTina]

I find it interesting that Philip was depicted playing squash while Andrew was being born AND that Andrew was born via the "twilight sleep and forceps" method.  Contrast that with the birth of Edward where we are shown Philip in the room during the delivery and Elizabeth is shown awake.  I presume that is just poetic license -- an attempt to depict visually that Philip worked hard to be supportive of the Queen through that pregnancy as a demonstration of his re-commitment to the marriage.  I don't find it credible that the manner of Edward's delivery would vary so dramatically from that of Andrew.  And based on what I've learned from the BBC TV-show "Call the Midwife" and Claire's unhappy experience giving birth in the late 1940's in England on the TV show "Outlander" -- having mothers deliver while unconscious was standard operating procedure in that time for the well-to-do.  Only the the poor practiced "natural" childbirth with the mothers laboring while awake (later with the help of "gas" when that eventually became available via the national health service).

Edited December 20, 2017 by WatchrTina

[biakbiak]

24 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

And based on what I've learned from the BBC TV-show "Call the Midwife" and Claire's unhappy experience giving birth in the late 1940's in England on the TV show "Outlander" -- having mothers deliver while unconscious was standard operating procedure in that time for the well-to-do.  Only the the poor practiced "natural" childbirth with the mothers laboring while awake (later with the help of "gas" when that eventually became available via the national health service).

I have no idea about the specifics of about Edward's birth but he was born in 1964 when many of the issues of "twilight sleep" were known and was on its way out.

[txhorns79]

Quote

And using that particular non-fictional ballerina gives them deniability -- they can say if challenged "Yes of course, there's no way he was really involved with Ulanova," while without saying so, they've established the idea that there may have been someone at some point.

I don't get the impression they care about deniability, and that explanation would be too cute by half. 

I liked the final QE2 and Phillip argument and make up.  Overall though, I was kind of meh on this season.  I'm happy to see Phillip might finally be growing up, but was disappointed this season spent so much time dealing with him and his issues. 

[rubyred]

The thing about Philip (IRL as well as on the show), is that Elizabeth has always seemed more into him than he is into her. Yeah, he likes her, but he doesn't appreciate her. When their engagement was announced she was practically incandescent, and he looked quietly pleased. Yeah, British reserve and all that, but while I do believe over the years their relationship has deepened, I think his desire to marry her was more pragmatic than overwhelmingly passionate. He basically married into having a home for the rest of his life. That's not really a knock, actually. It just bugs that he couldn't "settle," since he knew full well what he was getting in to and actively encouraged a relationship with Elizabeth since she was 13. Get over yourself, dude. 

[Primetimer]

And we finally get a real, emotional conversation between Philip and Elizabeth.

View the full article

[Roseanna]

32 minutes ago, PreviouslyTV said:

And we finally get a real, emotional conversation between Philip and Elizabeth.

View the full article

Quote

It's actually quite romantic, but it's also a bit out of left field; we haven't seen a single moment where Philip seems to be transitioning from chafing at the requirements of his role to realizing the depth of his love for his wife. If that was his journey this season, it's actually a very potentially swoony one, but we skipped....all the steps in the middle, and so while this scene is very effective in a vacuum, I'm not sure if it feels emotionally earned. I don't get the impression that Philip is lying here -- Matt Smith plays it very sincerely -- but, like, since when? You can't have your jerkface male protagonist just announce that he loves your heroine after several hours of him being selfish and jerking her around. Honestly, I think that Peter Morgan might just be really bad at writing romance.

I mainly agree with this analysis but in addition I suspect that the reason was that because the season has ten episodes, the confrontation had to become in the end of ep10 when it would have been more natural that Elizabeth would have confronted her husband about the photo already in Lisbo after which their relationshop would have gradually come better (there were some signs of it, especially the end of "Vergangenheit" where Philip admired his wife). 

Also, on the basis of what we saw (he was interested about Ward's offer) and how Philip behaved (the trip to St Moritz which he didn't tell his wife beforehand), it's very hard to believe that he told the truth - although he actually did not give the straight answer about his sexual fidelity.         

[txhorns79]

Quote

A confederacy of elected quitters," Elizabeth spits at him. That was quite the icy burn, and with it, she storms out. How thrilling, twenty episodes in, to finally see her find her spine and use it to beat someone about the head. Long may this Elizabeth reign.

I did think she used her spine last season when she found out Churchill hid his health problems from her, and she essentially reduced him to a quivery mass of near tears during their weekly meeting. 

[PeterPirate]

1 minute ago, txhorns79 said:

I did think she used her spine last season when she found out Churchill hid his health problems from her, and she essentially reduced him to a quivery mass of near tears during their weekly meeting. 

Indeed.  Imo the point of this episode was not that Philip had changed, but that Elizabeth finally found her spine in her personal life, and confronted her man about his infidelity.  

It's not possible to know how sincere Philip was being at the end.  For all we know, he could have been pulling a Jimmy Swaggart moment after being found out.  In some ways it doesn't matter.  She's the monarch, he isn't.  She's not going to look the other way anymore as he goes galavanting around, nor is she going to offer another another fancy title or other bribe.   

Yasssssssss, Queen.

[dubbel zout]

There's no excuse, however, for Margaret's snobbishly telling Elizabeth that Marina would do well to "remember her place" as a "low-ranking member of [Philip's] refugee family," who is "lucky to be there at all."

This always cracks me up, because Marina was more royal than Elizabeth and Margaret if you go through the family trees. 

"I know exactly what my job is," he continues. "Your father made it perfectly clear. You are my job. You are the essence of my duty. So here I am. Liege man of life and limb. In, not out. "

I wish Elizabeth had said, "Yeah, my father told you all this more than ten years ago. What took you so long to understand and accept it?" But I liked that whole sequence; it was beautifully blocked.

[txhorns79]

Quote

It's not possible to know how sincere Philip was being at the end. 

And that's really the problem of this season.  They've shown Philip being an unmitigated jerk to his wife all season, and a horrible parent to his eldest son.  It's interesting to get some insight into why Phillip is such a jerk, but ultimately, while it might explain why he acts that way, it doesn't excuse how awful he is.  He's done nothing to earn the resolution of the fight he had with QE2 in this episode.  Rather, the show wanted them to resolve their issues for the finale, so they did.  

Mind you, the QM clearly having an awesome time on the conga line in Margaret's wedding episode nearly made the season all worth it.          

[dubbel zout]

7 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

Mind you, the QM clearly having an awesome time on the conga line in Margaret's wedding episode nearly made the season all worth it.   

That, and the return of the Hammer with his magnificent dogs.

[teddysmom]

Men were never around for the birth of their children back then, so it's not on Phillip that he wasn't there until the last child. We can't keep comparing Phillip to what men do now. It's 60-70 years ago.

Remember when Mountbatten tells her "we've both married untameable people". (paraphrasing). Phillip wasn't brought up in the Royal Family, so it's an adjustment to be subservient to your wife in the 1950s.

As far as Elizabeth not saying she loves him, or holding onto the photo, she never says much about anything, that's her. Remember when he brings Charles home and she doesn't even go down to greet him? That's not exactly Mother of the Year behavior. I think the photo was dramatic license as "I have this, I know what you've been doing all these years, and I've looked the other way". Yes, that takes a woman of very strong will. And now they've confronted their issues, and resolved to move on. He'll be better, as everyone said he was and sixty years later she'll break protocol and allow the fiance of her grandson to attend her Christmas luncheon. Progress!!

[Roseanna]

7 hours ago, teddysmom said:

As far as Elizabeth not saying she loves him 

There is no need for her to say it for he knows it (and we know it). She isn't an American who says it all the time.

Generally, "I love you" does not necessarily mean "I love you". And even if does, it doesn't necessarily mean good things.   

10 hours ago, PreviouslyTV said:

And we finally get a real, emotional conversation between Philip and Elizabeth.

View the full article

Quote

Honestly, I think that Peter Morgan might just be really bad at writing romance.

A long marriage can't be described as a romance (although it can include romantic and passionate moments).  I think that Peter Morgan failed because, although he hinted at Philip's straying, didn't dare to deal the issue,, perhaps due to the respect towards the Sovereign. 

Or he simply didn't understand that at that time the morality was different: in the upper class couple's traditional marriage other things were more important than sexual fidelity. As Elizabeth said, what hurt her most was that she wasn't told the truth.

Also, in ep3 Elizabeth asked Philip to be "in, not out". But he wasn't (except in Vergangenheit). 

We have also seen Macmillan's marriage: her wife wasn't only unfaithful but didn't show any respect nor empathy towards him.  

[txhorns79]

Quote

Or he simply didn't understand that at that time the morality was different: in the upper class couple's traditional marriage other things were more important than sexual fidelity. As Elizabeth said, what hurt her most was that she wasn't told the truth.

Obviously, every married couple has their own rules for the relationship, but I thought QE2s point wasn't that straying was fine so long as Phillip was honest, but that regardless of the infidelity, Phillip's deceit was more toxic to the relationship than had he just been unfaithful.   I think that would still be true today, no matter what class you exist within.  

[dubbel zout]

26 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I thought QE2s point wasn't that straying was fine so long as Phillip was honest, but that regardless of the infidelity, Phillip's deceit was more toxic to the relationship than had he just been unfaithful.

That's how I saw it, too: Elizabeth could overlook the affairs but not the lying (about anything, really).

[Cara]

8 hours ago, PreviouslyTV said:

And we finally get a real, emotional conversation between Philip and Elizabeth.

View the full article

Quote

and I never have a seen a television program where FOUR children have been conceived without a single scene in which their parents even once passionately kissed.

This! We saw lots about their problems. But there also must have had some moments where they got along! LOL It would have been nice to see a bit more of those!

Edited December 22, 2017 by Cara

[Crs97]

The past three episodes really declined in quality for me.  How she included Churchill in her “confederacy of quitters” remark I will never know.  He was too old because he had already served your father and saved your country during the war, lady!  When he hid his illness so that he wouldn’t have to quit, you got pissed at him!  As you can tell, I might have gotten a little upset at that line.

This season ended on quite a whimper for me,  When Philip told her she was his job and the essence of his duty, my husband said, “Yeah.  That’ll sweep her off her feet.”  So we were laughing rather than moved at the end.

[Roseanna]

10 hours ago, Cara said:

This! We saw lots about their problems. But there also must have had some moments where they got along! LOL It would have been nice to see a bit more of those!

• Quote

  and I never have a seen a television program where FOUR children have been conceived without a single scene in which their parents even once passionately kissed.

  ???  Kissing isn't needed to conceive children. Actually, Hollywood began to use a kiss as a substitute when even married couple couldn't show in bed. Which was shown in this show as well other moments when they desired each other when out of bed (f.ex. in Africa in S1).  

• Instead, we saw Margaret kiss passionately Townsend, but that rather showed her dependency on him than lasting love. 

[FirstBootFodder]

6 hours ago, Crs97 said:

How she included Churchill in her “confederacy of quitters” remark I will never know.  He was too old because he had already served your father and saved your country during the war, lady!  When he hid his illness so that he wouldn’t have to quit, you got pissed at him!  As you can tell, I might have gotten a little upset at that line.

I'm glad someone else feels this way!  I just rewatched this episode and I still got my dander up when she lumped an elderly, chronically ill Churchill into the loser pile.  Churchill was no Eden or MacMillan!

[Clanstarling]

On 12/17/2017 at 9:00 AM, Athena5217 said:

I didn’t understand why everyone was so interested in identifying the man in the photo. Is it just because everyone else was identifiable but him? He wasn’t doing anything incriminating in the photo except be at the party.

I also find the idea that Margaret could recognize the back of Philip’s neck ridiculous. I have been marrried for 10 years, and I sometimes mistake other men  for my husband from the back in the grocery store.  Once I get within 2 feet, I can tell, but from a distance there are a lot of white men in their 40s of medium height with not much hair that all look alike.  Also, many of them wear jeans and striped shirts to the store!

Whereas I've recognized people I don't know well from the backs of their heads. I think it's more about stance and body language. Maybe I saw them from the back of the head more often than my husband, because like yours, there are a fair number of men his age who somewhat resemble him. 

 

22 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

And that's really the problem of this season.  They've shown Philip being an unmitigated jerk to his wife all season, and a horrible parent to his eldest son.  It's interesting to get some insight into why Phillip is such a jerk, but ultimately, while it might explain why he acts that way, it doesn't excuse how awful he is.  He's done nothing to earn the resolution of the fight he had with QE2 in this episode.  Rather, the show wanted them to resolve their issues for the finale, so they did.     

For me, this is such a television cliche. You have (usually) a man act like a jerk for most of the episode (or in this case, season) and in the end he says something nice and we're supposed to swoon at how wonderful and sensitive he is (granted, this doesn't go as far as that - but it is a peeve of mine). 

Though I loved Elizabeth's highly unusual direct slams at MacMillan, I also thought it was unfair to include Churchill in that list. That man was never a quitter. On the other hand, Elizabeth was clearly emotional in that scene, and was probably not filtering out the feelings of betrayal we all know are not fair, but feel them anyway.

I can't remember the moment now, but I think it was in the confrontation with Phillip, Claire Foy was so brilliant. Not a word, and her face fell, broke, and tightened up again. So many emotions. Matt Smith did a great job as well, and I've rarely thought of him as a subtle actor. 

I enjoy this show, but it is so hard not to conflate the fictionalized characters with the real ones. To believe we know them based on the on the show, when we don't. The show routinely ignores historical truth for a good story line. I guess the upside of that is it sends those of us not so familiar with the royal family off to the internet to research. The acting is brilliant, though like others, I wish they'd spend a bit more time on the female characters, their relationships - present and past.

Edited December 23, 2017 by Clanstarling

[WatchrTina]

On 12/22/2017 at 11:24 AM, teddysmom said:

I think the photo was dramatic license as "I have this, I know what you've been doing all these years, and I've looked the other way".

That, to me, was a glaring plot-hole because HOW does she have that?  When last we saw it she spotted it in Philips carry-on as he was preparing to leave for that extended tour YEARs earlier.  She put it back in the case, as I recall.  I guess we're supposed to imagine that she went rifling through his possessions at some point in the last few years and took it and then, for reasons surpassing all understanding, has it with her when she goes into seclusion in the guest house.  Yeah, that one's a stretch.

But the reason I put the episode on pause and got up to come comment was this:  did I just see Margaret day-drinking scotch literally moments after telling her sister she was pregnant?  That has bugged me every time I watch ( think I'm on round 3).  I know that attitudes about drinking while pregnant keep changing (some now say the occasional glass of wine is fine) but if someone is drinking the hard stuff in the middle of the day then that's NOT the only alcohol she'll be consuming that day.  This is the 60's.  Was the link between fetal abnormalities and drinking not yet known?

2nd random observation from the episode:  Anthony Eden's wife was a bitch.

Edited December 23, 2017 by WatchrTina

[biakbiak]

6 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

That, to me, was a glaring plot-hole because HOW does she have that?  When last we saw it she spotted it in Philips carry-on as he was preparing to leave for that extended tour YEARs earlier.  She put it back in the case, as I recall.  I guess we're supposed to imagine that she went rifling through his possessions at some point in the last few and took it and then, for reasons surpassing all understanding, has it with her when she goes into seclusion in the guest house.  Yeah, that one's a stretch.

As noted in the recap she didn't put it back.

[WatchrTina]

1 minute ago, biakbiak said:

As noted in the recap she didn't put it back.

Welp, I guess I have to watch that episode a THIRD time.

[dubbel zout]

10 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

This is the 60's.  Was the link between fetal abnormalities and drinking not yet known?

According to Prof. Wiki, fetal alcohol syndrome wasn't named and recognized until around 1973, though studies had been conducted as early as 1968. Margaret's son was born in 1961, her daughter in 1964. A definitive link was still in the future.

[WatchrTina]

1 hour ago, biakbiak said:

As noted in the recap she didn't put it back.

I have to disagree.  I just re-watched the episode where Elizabeth finds the photo of the ballerina and while her hands (and her purse and the briefcase) cannot be seen due to the close-up shot, my interpretation was that she put the photo back in the briefcase where she found it -- not in her purse.  The recap for that episode agrees.  It says:

Quote

Claire Foy's performance in this moment is great. She's very, very good by now at arranging her face into a mask, and then letting it slip and fall in bits and pieces. Her smile fades, her eyes are heartbreaking, and her chest visibly tightens. She is trying to keep a pleasant expression on her face, attempting not to react or cry, presumably because while she might technically be alone she is never truly by herself. Not there; not in a working palace. She puts the photo back and turns on her heel.

So my question posted earlier still stands.  I have to wonder how that photo came to be in that drawer in that place (a Balmoral guest-house) at that climactic moment.  I'll hand-wave it away for the sake of good drama but you have to get into some willful suspension of disbelief to credit its being there.

[biakbiak]

7 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

just re-watched the episode where Elizabeth finds the photo of the ballerina and while her hands (and her purse and the briefcase) cannot be seen due to the close-up shot, my interpretation was that she put the photo back in the briefcase where she found it -- not in her purse.  The recap for that episode agrees.  It says:

I was referring to the part where Philip opens the briefcase and finds the camera and the note but not the photo:

Quote

Philip does then dig into his briefcase, and there is the camera with Elizabeth's note. He doesn't find the photograph, though. If I were Elizabeth, I would have gotten very petty and placed the photo RIGHT next to all the other stuff, so that he'd see them together and have to spend the next five months wondering about a whole variety of things.

[WatchrTina]

Ah, I didn't read that far and I don't recall seeing it happen.  And as noted in the recap for THIS episode, it seems odd that that would have happened -- Elizabeth taking the photo, Philip finding the gift & note and seeing that the photo is missing and then the two of them never addressing the issue for two years.  I'm with the recapper when she says:

Quote

I'm not totally sure if I buy the idea that Elizabeth has been stewing about this specific ballerina in silence for SO VERY LONG. I'll take it -- I've been longing for this fight! -- but I'm not sure it makes sense that this would fester through anniversary parties and two other children without bursting before now.

And now, having finally read the recap for this episode I have to express my gratitude and admiration for the recappers in making them both fun (see quote below) and informative (they confirmed a lot of items where I had mental questions about whether or not things really happened as depicted).  

Quote

"If only," is Elizabeth's cutting response and I have to say that I love Bitchy Elizabeth and can only hope that Olivia Colman goes Full Bitch Ahead next season. Philip is sort of like, "Why, whatever do you mean," and I swear I feel like I'm front row at a boxing match and just waiting for the bell to ring. GET HIM, GIRL. "If only," Elizabeth repeats, coldly, and keeps sorting photos. Philip tells her not to "punish [him] with silence," and to have out with it. "Be a grownup," he tells her. Oh, he did not. GET. HIM. GIRL.

What a fun ride this has been and I'm with the recapper in looking forward to seeing what Olivia Colman (of whom I am a BIG fan) will do with the role next.

[Roseanna]

13 hours ago, Crs97 said:

How she included Churchill in her “confederacy of quitters” remark I will never know.  He was too old because he had already served your father and saved your country during the war, lady!  When he hid his illness so that he wouldn’t have to quit, you got pissed at him!  As you can tell, I might have gotten a little upset at that line.

I think Elizabeth meant it literally: neither Churchill, Eden or Macmillan served their full term but resigned in the middle of it. 

Of course Churchill's chief sin was just the opposite: that he refused to resign although he was too old and ill for the job.  

[dubbel zout]

11 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

I think Elizabeth meant it literally: neither Churchill, Eden or Macmillan served their full term but resigned in the middle of it.

I also like to think Elizabeth was saying-without-really-saying, "Hey, Harold! I can't quit—the last time a monarch did, there was practically a constitutional crisis. For realsies. I'm in this for life, remember? The least you can do is bloody serve out your elected term." (I paraphrase.)

Edited December 23, 2017 by dubbel zout

[biakbiak]

My great aunt held on to letters from her husband's mistress (also a family member) for like 20 years and then when she was dying she called the whole family together and put him and his mistress on blast, so I guess I had no problem with her holding on to it for two years.

[dubbel zout]

Your great aunt sounds awesome!

[txhorns79]

Quote

My great aunt held on to letters from her husband's mistress (also a family member) for like 20 years and then when she was dying she called the whole family together and put him and his mistress on blast, so I guess I had no problem with her holding on to it for two years.

I appreciate the kind of grudge that behavior requires. 

I'm looking forward to the next season.  I'm sure they'll get into the 70s, so I guess we'll see QE2 develop a taste for fondue, Buckingham Palace redecorated in shades of avocado green and harvest gold and presumably Princess Margaret's sex island. 

[dubbel zout]

We'll also get

 

Roddy Llewellyn.

It should be interesting to see how that is depicted.

Edited December 23, 2017 by dubbel zout
adding punctuation to the spoiler

[yb125]

2 hours ago, Roseanna said:

I think Elizabeth meant it literally: neither Churchill, Eden or Macmillan served their full term but resigned in the middle of it. 

Of course Churchill's chief sin was just the opposite: that he refused to resign although he was too old and ill for the job.  

I think the real problem was that he ran again, he was already quite old and could've considered his ability to finish his term when running. It was commented that he should step aside then. So yeah he kind of fits although not quite in the same way of the others.

[Bec]

On 12/22/2017 at 11:20 PM, Crs97 said:

This season ended on quite a whimper for me,  When Philip told her she was his job and the essence of his duty, my husband said, “Yeah.  That’ll sweep her off her feet.”  So we were laughing rather than moved at the end.

Haha, yeah, I was like "way to make her feel like a chore!" Though he finished strong with telling her he loves her. "Okay, that's better! Nice save."

[Roseanna]

Still about Philip going to St Moriz without telling it Elizabeth beforehand: that could happen in ordinary families where the spouses' relations are bad.  But I guess that a royal couple, even when they don't speak to one other, has a staff who keeps a diary of the happenings they have promised to be present and therefore also about their journeys during which time they aren't available for happenings. 

If Philip really had gone to Switzerland for an organization to protect wildlife, that would hardly been no secret in the Palace beforehand - and afterwards Court Circular would have told about it and the papers wold even have made a news about it. So this wasn't a very good idea from the writer.

Before all, Philip's behavior could have be more understandable if we had seen that his relationship with Elizabeth before the journey had been especially bad  - but we were shown no hint about this, on the contrary. Elizabeth has seldom seen so pleased as she learned aboit her pregnancy and she clearly waited for Philip to be delighted too.  

[tatianalarina]

This is a speech from Richard no. 2, not 3. It always amuses me how everybody seems to thinks it's some kind of hymn to England's greatness, while in fact the dying John of Gaunt, who delivers it, means to say "this could be a great country, but we're all going to hell in a handbasket".

[secnarf]

35 minutes ago, tatianalarina said:

This is a speech from Richard no. 2, not 3. It always amuses me how everybody seems to thinks it's some kind of hymn to England's greatness, while in fact the dying John of Gaunt, who delivers it, means to say "this could be a great country, but we're all going to hell in a handbasket".

What speech are you referring to?