S03.E08: eps3.7_dont-delete-me.ko

[shapeshifter]

Quote

Elliot tries to get ghosted; it is the day of all days.

A breather episode with a lot to like and a lot to relate to.

 

From https://stackoverflow.com/questions/10476990/difference-between-o-and-ko-file:

Quote

the .ko file is your object file linked with some kernel automatically generated data structures that are needed by the kernel.

Shama's little brother was an essential kernel? Or at least a real boy representation of his sister's message maybe? Can her final email prove her innocence? Or is it like Anita Hill's message that won't be believed for decades?

Angela was supposed to be there for Elliot when he would need someone in the future, and, ultimately she was, because giving of one's/Elliot's self is what gives the will to live.

[KaleyFirefly]

I wonder if the version of Trenton's brother who appeared on the beach just in time to stop Elliot's suicide was real or Elliot's hallucination? Either Elliot really didn't want to kill himself so he subconsciously made himself an "out", or it was Mr. Robot manipulating Elliot's mind with a vision that would help him, so he wouldn't kill himself (and Mr. Robot). I just find it hard to believe that Trenton's parents, having just lost one child, would leave a little kid alone for such a long time with no babysitter.

All the blatant references to time travel make me think that Sam Esmail is messing with us, and it will turn out that Whiterose's plan is something other than time travel. Seems too obvious at this point. I also think Angela is super depressed because she realizes that she's been duped and it was all wishful thinking, believing she can bring people back from the dead.

That scene at the beginning with young Elliot and his dad...wow. Painful. His dad's face when Elliot said he'd never forgive him...my heart just hurt in that moment. I imagine that, for a parent, that would be one of the worst things you can hear. But I was wondering if this does confirm that this dad really did push Elliot out the window?

I'm glad Trenton sent that email to Elliot, though I'm not sure how she knew that he would want to un-do the E-corp hack. As far as she knew, Elliot was the mastermind behind the hack.

I love that Elliot hacked Mobley's brother to ensure that Mobley will get a decent funeral.

Edited November 30, 2017 by KaleyFirefly
adding /clarifying

[Chaos Theory]

I am still not sure if the kid was real or Elliot’s inner child.  The story works both ways.  I actually think it works better as the kid being Elliot’s inner child teaching Elliot to live again.  Either way one of the better episodes this season.  

[shapeshifter]

I think your whole post is "spot on," @KaleyFirefly. I wonder if the little brother will become a new regular Elliot alter with Mr. Robot relegated to flashbacks.

[Neurochick]

46 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

I am still not sure if the kid was real or Elliot’s inner child.  The story works both ways.  I actually think it works better as the kid being Elliot’s inner child teaching Elliot to live again.  Either way one of the better episodes this season.  

I agree with this.  When I first saw him, I didn't realize he was Trenton's brother.  I thought he was a child version of Elliot himself.  

The last part of this episode IMO was just beautiful, seeing Angela and Elliot on opposite sides of the walls of their minds.  

Glad Trenton sent the email to Elliot, maybe she hoped the "right" Elliot would see it. 

[benteen]

I do wonder if this version of Trenton's brother was in his head or not.

It was a good episode though I'm slightly annoyed at having another set-up episode (though it's nice to see Elliot in a better place at the end).  I didn't realize Trenton was only 18...that would explain the lack of driver's license although not the shitty driving from last week.  Elliot, I love Back to the Future II but you have to show someone who hasn't seen it before the first one before you see the second one.

[green]

I don't see this as a set-up episode.  I see this as a major resolving episode as Elliot finds "himself" after he thought he was lost forever and so had no reason to live any more.

Trenton's kid brother may be in Elliot's head but I'll take him as a real person for now until I see otherwise.  I'd like to think Elliot can learn lessons from real life at times too, heh.  Having said that you guys are most likely right.

Was the guy in the ice cream truck the same guy that was the guy next door looking after his dog?  Josh Mostel was listed in the credits and I figured he was one or both of those guy(s)?  If both then it was indeed probably an "inside the head" job.  I mean we switched to movie mode complete with movie Titles and the movie height to width ratio on screen the whole episode.  Elliot and Darlene really mourned these two though.  So I just wish the kid was real is all I guess.

I really REALLY liked that Trenton and Mobley weren't just offed and forgotten like red shirts end up in other shows.  That Elliot felt compelled to pay his respects as it were before he went to the beach to kill himself.  That Trenton's kid brother, real or not, saves him from himself.  That Trenton's sending that email is probably going to be a big deal so her action will end up as a major factor going forward.  That their lives have meaning because in the end we non 1%ers are all considered red shirts by the powers that be that rule the world.  Go, Team Red Shirt!

Also loved this episode because it started out so dark and down like some Ronald Moore Battlestar Galactica in the latter seasons episode.  But it turned around and showed Esmail wasn't being dark just to be dark. 

I've seen people here say they think this series will end like some Shakespearean tragedy with everyone dead in the end.  I don't think Esmail will do that and destroy his legacy like Moore did with Galactica.  I think this is actually an uplifting show in that hope is at it's core and I don't see it fizzling out to some easy peasey and totally silly everyone dead cop out in the end.

Edited November 30, 2017 by green

[Neurochick]

I don't get why the upset at Trenton not being a good driver.  If you live somewhere like NYC or other cities, you really don't need a car.  You can walk to a grocery store, rather than jump in the car to go buy toilet tissue.  

I live in NYC and I didn't have a drivers license until I was in my 20's.  I didn't need it; I still don't need it, though I do know how to drive.  

Edited November 30, 2017 by Neurochick

[Cardie]

37 minutes ago, green said:

Josh Mostel was listed in the credits and I figured he was one or both of those guy(s)? 

No, the ice cream guy--and Hasidic Jew--was played by the great Richard Masur, also listed in the credits.

I not only wasn't sure if the little boy was real but also wondered whether any of it happened at all. Everything had such a fable-like quality. And surely Elliot wouldn't need that many pills in order to kill himself.

Trenton's solution to reversing the hack is metaphorically a back to the future move. It could undo everything that has made Elliot's world the horrible place it is. Still, Esmail has ben anvilicious in the past. I really do expect actual time travel at some point.

I was intrigued with the discussions of taking shoes on and off without losing one's balance. There was that otherwise unnecessary scene of one of the BttF cosplayers taking off her red stiletto heels after the screening, as well as all the stuff about removing shoes to pray at the mosque.

[green]

14 minutes ago, Cardie said:

No, the ice cream guy--and Hasidic Jew--was played by the great Richard Masur, also listed in the credits.

I not only wasn't sure if the little boy was real but also wondered whether any of it happened at all. Everything had such a fable-like quality. And surely Elliot wouldn't need that many pills in order to kill himself.

Trenton's solution to reversing the hack is metaphorically a back to the future move. It could undo everything that has made Elliot's world the horrible place it is. Still, Esmail has ben anvilicious in the past. I really do expect actual time travel at some point.

I was intrigued with the discussions of taking shoes on and off without losing one's balance. There was that otherwise unnecessary scene of one of the BttF cosplayers taking off her red stiletto heels after the screening, as well as all the stuff about removing shoes to pray at the mosque.

Thanks.  And yeah the shoe thing was interesting now that you mention it.

And the fable-like quality and it being in Elliot's head?  Yeah wasn't Christopher whats-his-name who played the professor sitting next to Elliot in the movie theatre.  The guy who wanted Elliot to hold his flux capacitor.

Edited November 30, 2017 by green

[possibilities]

58 minutes ago, green said:

I really REALLY liked that Trenton and Mobley weren't just offed and forgotten like red shirts end up in other shows

I was so grateful for this, too. So often tv and movies use characters as fodder, and I like when Mr. Robot actually shows people grieving. Darlene hasn't recovered from the murder of Cisco, either.

[meep.meep]

IMDb says that Josh Mostel played Bo, who I think was the guy taking care of Flipper.  He looks a lot like Richard Masur.

I couldn't read anything from Trenton's email.

[benteen]

33 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

I don't get why the upset at Trenton not being a good driver.  If you live somewhere like NYC or other cities, you really don't need a car.  You can walk to a grocery store, rather than jump in the car to go buy toilet tissue.  

I live in NYC and I didn't have a drivers license until I was in my 20's.  I didn't need it; I still don't need it, though I do know how to drive.  

I just found it ridiculous that in a wide open desert, she managed to somehow hit that hill.  It was like Esmail wa trying to make a "women can't drive" joke.

Anyway, I was glad Trenton and Mobly weren't forgotten about either.

Edited November 30, 2017 by benteen

[atlantaloves]

That was a great adventure for Elliott but can someone tell me where they get all their money for rent, cocktails and tons of drugs? Did Elliott and his sister steal a million dollars worth of ECoin? And Flipper better be okay, let me tell ya. 

I loved this episode, beautiful writing and acting on Rami's part.  

[green]

1 hour ago, meep.meep said:

IMDb says that Josh Mostel played Bo, who I think was the guy taking care of Flipper.  He looks a lot like Richard Masur.

I couldn't read anything from Trenton's email.

I just read the first line that said that the hack could be reversed.  Which reminded me immediately that Trenton had told Mobley last season that she thought she had figured out a way to reverse the hack.

Anyone have a screen cap of the whole thing?

[Anela]

55 minutes ago, atlantaloves said:

That was a great adventure for Elliott but can someone tell me where they get all their money for rent, cocktails and tons of drugs? Did Elliott and his sister steal a million dollars worth of ECoin? And Flipper better be okay, let me tell ya. 

I loved this episode, beautiful writing and acting on Rami's part.  

I wondered that, too. 

I didn't really want this episode to end. I'm depressed, it's a rainy afternoon, and the tone of it was just perfect. 

Who was he talking to in the theatre? Was it another personality, or did he think it was his dad? I was making tea, and heard someone else, too, but I didn't see which side he was on. 

I thought the kid was him, not trenton's brother. I really can't see his parents leaving him like that. 

I liked the part with Angela. I like that they have each other, and that they didn't just get up and get on with things. They're depressed, messed up, but that was sweet. 

So, did white rose get Elliot with that time travel/alternate universe thing, too? "Deletion isn't permanent." And those bags dropped off outside. Did he just order more parts? That was weird. 

[RICHYBOY]

my thought on everything is sloppy writing. Wellick is still the most well acted and interesting character. I am getting to the point I wish elliot would be killed so the show can move on his shit is so boring, not that I want the actor to lose his job, how many times can he fight with himself and complain about day to day annoyances. oh yeah white rose can't be the one in charge the one in charge never meet with anyone. and yes I will keep watching hoping Wellick who created the hack that blew everything up will move into the main character place elliot is a wore out pair of underwear  

[ruby24]

I don't think we've ever heard Elliot talk so much out loud before. It was kind of weird.

Shouldn't he have taken the kid to see the first Back to the Future if he'd never seen it before? Anyone would get lost in Part II, but especially if you've never seen the first one! No wonder he left.

[Zoe]

Everybody's been focusing so much on the original BttF that nobody thought the hints were really pointing to BttF2.

[Cardie]

43 minutes ago, Zoe said:

Everybody's been focusing so much on the original BttF that nobody thought the hints were really pointing to BttF2.

Because the future part of that film takes place in 2015, the same year as Mr. Robot,  we really should have

[green]

9 hours ago, Anela said:

I wondered that, too. 

I didn't really want this episode to end. I'm depressed, it's a rainy afternoon, and the tone of it was just perfect. 

Who was he talking to in the theatre? Was it another personality, or did he think it was his dad? I was making tea, and heard someone else, too, but I didn't see which side he was on. 

I thought the kid was him, not trenton's brother. I really can't see his parents leaving him like that. 

I liked the part with Angela. I like that they have each other, and that they didn't just get up and get on with things. They're depressed, messed up, but that was sweet. 

So, did white rose get Elliot with that time travel/alternate universe thing, too? "Deletion isn't permanent." And those bags dropped off outside. Did he just order more parts? That was weird. 

The guy next to him looked like the actor Christopher Lloyd who played the professor in the Back to the Future series.  He even handed him his flux capacitor to hold, heh.  Don't think it was actually him but lots of people in the audience had all dressed up as characters in the film for the anniversary showing.  So this guy looked like the professor and handed Elliot the component that was used in time travel in the movie ... hint, hint from Esmail no doubt.

The "deletion isn't permanent" line was over the trash being thrown out in front of Elliot's apt building.  When society breaks down trash pick-up is about the first thing to go and people usually dump their garbage in someone else's neighborhood.  In this case the garbage bags contained the Mr Robot jacket that Elliot had tried to give away earlier in the episode as part of his acts to perform before his death at the beach.

57 minutes ago, Cardie said:

Because the future part of that film takes place in 2015, the same year as Mr. Robot,  we really should have

Yeah Elliot mentioned he always wanted to see the movie on it's whatever big anniversary down to the exact day.  I looked it up and it would have been the 30th anniversary of the original (1985) and the one they saw came out in 1989 but like Cardie said above the action in the future of that film takes place in 2015 thus the "anniversary" Elliot was talking about down to the exact day in the film when the future got visited.   And all that great talk waiting in line about how the past and future interact in that film too.  Anvils be dropping at this point, yar.

They had a big banner hanging up there outside the theatre that read October 15, 2015 too to celebrate the fictional anniversary in the film.  Which also catches us up with the exact date we are at in the show's timeline.

Edited December 1, 2017 by green

[scrb]

Was Elliott considering suicide or did he get the morphine to get Mobley's brother to have the funeral?

I didn't think he went to Coney Island to kill himself.  That place must have sentimental value.  Besides being F Society headquarters, it must have been a place Elliott and his father visited.

There are obvious parallels between Elliott and the kid but I don't think he was some imagined alternate self.

Like Elliott (and Angela), the kid has suffered loss early in his life.  His father never took him to the movies as Elliott's father did.  As annoying as he was Elliott felt for the kid.

At the end of the episode, it looked like Elliott was getting back into the game but I think of this as more than a set up for the larger plot.  It illuminates some of the sadness which has always hung over these characters.

[benteen]

13 hours ago, RICHYBOY said:

my thought on everything is sloppy writing. Wellick is still the most well acted and interesting character. I am getting to the point I wish elliot would be killed so the show can move on his shit is so boring, not that I want the actor to lose his job, how many times can he fight with himself and complain about day to day annoyances. oh yeah white rose can't be the one in charge the one in charge never meet with anyone. and yes I will keep watching hoping Wellick who created the hack that blew everything up will move into the main character place elliot is a wore out pair of underwear  

I think Elliot is the most interesting character but Tyrell is great too.  Esmail made a huge mistake sidelining him for almost all of season two and they've pretty much taken any mystery or interest away from the character in Season 2.  The Joanna character was ultimately a tease that didn't go anywhere.  This episode frustrated me because it felt like another set-up, like the fourth episode this season.  Many of the characters didn't appear and I've grown tired of Esmail always holding off on giving answers.  It reminds me more of M. Night Shylaman, always holding off until revealing a big twist at the end.

[green]

9 hours ago, scrb said:

Was Elliott considering suicide or did he get the morphine to get Mobley's brother to have the funeral?

I didn't think he went to Coney Island to kill himself.  That place must have sentimental value.  Besides being F Society headquarters, it must have been a place Elliott and his father visited.

There are obvious parallels between Elliott and the kid but I don't think he was some imagined alternate self.

Like Elliott (and Angela), the kid has suffered loss early in his life.  His father never took him to the movies as Elliott's father did.  As annoying as he was Elliott felt for the kid.

At the end of the episode, it looked like Elliott was getting back into the game but I think of this as more than a set up for the larger plot.  It illuminates some of the sadness which has always hung over these characters.

Yes Elliot was definitely 100% indeed going to kill himself on Coney Island until the kid intervened in his life.  He even went through acts of contrition or whatever by throwing away the Mr Robot jacket and visiting the realities of Mobley and Trenton as part of the ritual leading up to his death. 

The morphine connection that led back to Mobley's brother was a nice coincidence I guess.  But he had no plans to return to that guy's house until after he decided not to kill himself because of the kid's intervention.  Neither did he expect the Mr Robot jacket to be in some trash thrown out into the street outside his apt building.  All signs for Elliot that he has to live now and  make things right.

[truthaboutluv]

A much needed breather after all the dramatic messiness and craziness of the last few episodes. Still not sure how Elliot can move on or try and fix things with how powerful White Rose is, even with Trenton's email but guess we'll see. As for the was the kid real or not, I think he was. Yes, his appearance was conveniently timed to stop Elliot from trying to kill himself but I do think the whole experience was real. I guess yes, it was weird that the parents would leave their young son alone after what just happened with their daughter but who knows if they did as the kid having his keys the whole time made it clear that he wasn't completely upfront with Elliot. 

While I understood Darlene's concern for Elliot, I hated how she was almost judging him for not going to see Angela because she was falling apart. Sure, we the viewers know that White Rose did a hell of a mind fuck job on Angela and that explained her batshit crazy behavior, but Elliot doesn't. To Elliot, all he knows is that Angela essentially used his mental condition against him and manipulated him, right down to injecting him with drugs to keep him from waking up when Mr. Robot took over. His anger towards her was more than justified in my opinion. 

 

6 hours ago, benteen said:

I've grown tired of Esmail always holding off on giving answers.

I think this is one thing he's actually been a lot better at this season, especially after the very divisive Season 2. Naturally there are still questions to be answered, since the season's not over yet. That's to be expected but this season has actually explained a lot of what's going on with all the characters, IMO. 

 

6 hours ago, benteen said:

I think Elliot is the most interesting character

Agreed. IMO, Rami is absolute perfection in the role and makes a character that could be annoying because there's so much silence and so much not said with him, anything but, because he's so expressive and intense with just his facial expressions. And those eyes man. YMMV I actually find Tyrell as a character a little love/hate, just because I still think he's the one character that truly doesn't make sense. I still don't understand why so much screen time was spent on his weird marriage in Season 1 and showing him hooking up with men and then murdering the guy's wife. The character's whole existence is still just odd to me in many ways though the actor does an amazing job, I will admit. 

 

Quote

Was Elliott considering suicide or did he get the morphine to get Mobley's brother to have the funeral?

It does seem rather convenient that he got the drugs from someone Mobley's brother was dealing with, making it easy for him to later blackmail the guy but it definitely looked like he was planning on killing himself. 

[green]

On 12/1/2017 at 3:40 PM, truthaboutluv said:

It does seem rather convenient that he got the drugs from someone Mobley's brother was dealing with, making it easy for him to later blackmail the guy but it definitely looked like he was planning on killing himself. 

Loved your post.  Aabout this part of it my theory is that it was a coincident he discovered after the fact just like it was a coincident that the Mr Robot jacket literally got thrown back to him with that trash dump outside his building.  That these were confirming "signs" to Elliot that the kid's influence on him to live was right.

Whether he knew the connection before his first visit to Mobley's brother or not I don't know.  But if he did he could have just threatened him with the connection and pocketed enough of the morphine to kill himself before he threw the rest of the bag at the guy.  But he didn't.  And he wanted Mobley to have that funeral the first visit too.  So his life being "saved" by his interaction with the kid seemed to get him back into the game of "hacker threatening sleazeball" mode.

Edited December 6, 2017 by green

[scrb]

I don't think he would have hacked Mobley's brother without intending to blackmail him to do the funeral.

He could have found other ways to commit suicide and he certainly didn't need that whole bag to OD.

That's why I doubt his original intent was to kill himself.

I get that he feels guilty about the 71 (or whatever they're calling that event) and the death of Trenton and Mobley but if he was really settling his affairs before killing himself, he'd have seen Darlene and Angela and others BEFORE he went to Coney Island.

[green]

3 hours ago, scrb said:

I don't think he would have hacked Mobley's brother without intending to blackmail him to do the funeral.

He could have found other ways to commit suicide and he certainly didn't need that whole bag to OD.

That's why I doubt his original intent was to kill himself.

I get that he feels guilty about the 71 (or whatever they're calling that event) and the death of Trenton and Mobley but if he was really settling his affairs before killing himself, he'd have seen Darlene and Angela and others BEFORE he went to Coney Island.

He did see Darelene.  Why would he want to see Angela though since she betrayed him?  He doesn't feel like he owes her anything when he makes his decision to kill himself.  But he feels he owes Mobley and Trenton.  It isn't a grand farewell tour.  It is about who he feel he owes.

We saw him reaching into the morphine bag ready to swallow the stuff down like crazy at Coney Island right before the kid came and sat down beside him.  And he kept trying to shake the kid as the episode went along saying he had something important to do back at Coney Island.  Also the episode is "do not delete" which only happened at the end after he tried to delete himself and the kid saved him.  Otherwise what is the point of the kid showing up at all?  So I guess will have have to agree to disagree.

Edited December 2, 2017 by green

[maisenza13]

On 30/11/2017 at 9:34 AM, KaleyFirefly said:

I wonder if the version of Trenton's brother who appeared on the beach just in time to stop Elliot's suicide was real or Elliot's hallucination? Either Elliot really didn't want to kill himself so he subconsciously made himself an "out", or it was Mr. Robot manipulating Elliot's mind with a vision that would help him, so he wouldn't kill himself (and Mr. Robot). I just find it hard to believe that Trenton's parents, having just lost one child, would leave a little kid alone for such a long time with no babysitter.

All the blatant references to time travel make me think that Sam Esmail is messing with us, and it will turn out that Whiterose's plan is something other than time travel. Seems too obvious at this point. I also think Angela is super depressed because she realizes that she's been duped and it was all wishful thinking, believing she can bring people back from the dead.

That scene at the beginning with young Elliot and his dad...wow. Painful. His dad's face when Elliot said he'd never forgive him...my heart just hurt in that moment. I imagine that, for a parent, that would be one of the worst things you can hear. But I was wondering if this does confirm that this dad really did push Elliot out the window?

I'm glad Trenton sent that email to Elliot, though I'm not sure how she knew that he would want to un-do the E-corp hack. As far as she knew, Elliot was the mastermind behind the hack.

I love that Elliot hacked Mobley's brother to ensure that Mobley will get a decent funeral.

I think real, salesperson at the cinema said he saw him.

[possibilities]

I was certain the kid was a newly formed personality, until the cinema concessions staff confirmed his existence. Multiplicity is about survival, and that moment on the beach was the exact kind of moment where it would "kick in" and a new person would form. But I think the movie theater guy's reaction was put there to tell us otherwise.

[Cyranetta]

It wasn't until several days later that I realized something about this episode - there was an intriguing parallel between the visuals and Elliot's psychology.

The scenes alternated between narrow "tunnels" and wide vistas. Elliot started out with "tunnel vision" of being able to see only suicide as the way forward, but at the end his scope had widened to be able to see other actions. When I stop to think about it, there's an additional parallel with the limited scope of the backup CDs and the wider "spaces" of the Internet.

[Ottis]

This ep may have been beautiful but it was also boring. So Elliot wants to live and undo the hack. That took a long time to get to. The scene with Angela was pretty but pointless. 

[Mumbles]

There were some interesting elements of homage/spoofing of the 1980s....”Back to the Future”, the 1980s power ballad playing at the end, Eliot talking to Angela through the door (I think that’s what happened in Saint Elmo's Fire.) 

I usually don’t like the cliched smart-ass “wise child” cliche but whatever, it served its purpose.

[AngelKitty]

21 hours ago, maisenza13 said:

salesperson at the cinema said he saw him.

Ah, thank you. That does clear that up.

 

13 hours ago, Ottis said:

This ep may have been beautiful but it was also boring.

Indeed it was. Mr. AngelKitty was getting restless. It just seemed to go on and on and on. Usually I am surprised when the show has ended but for this episode I thought it would never end.

[green]

On the contrary the episode seemed to fly by for me and left me wanting more.  I didn't find it boring but downright fascinating.  And it filled in an important element of Elliot's psyche with the fact that he didn't forgive his father and took the death coldly at the time and how much guilt that must have slowly built up in him over the years so that Mr Robot grew from these seeds.

Well except for the last big scene with Angela where it came to a grinding halt.  I cannot say at this point how much I detest this character and this is very atypical of me.  I usually find something to like or something that grabs me at least with villains in almost every character I've ever seen in any show ever.  But there is something about this character that just drives me crazy.

I've never got into all these zombie shows and don't understand the fascination about dead people walking around so maybe that is why I don't "get" Angela because she seems just that.  A shuffling, souless body with nothing inside it.

Edited December 4, 2017 by green

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, green said:

On the contrary the episode seemed to fly by for me

This episode held my interest more than most. But then I was also a fan of the polarizing Breaking Bad episode, "The Fly," which many also found slow or boring.

[Milaxx]

On 11/30/2017 at 3:34 AM, KaleyFirefly said:

I wonder if the version of Trenton's brother who appeared on the beach just in time to stop Elliot's suicide was real or Elliot's hallucination? Either Elliot really didn't want to kill himself so he subconsciously made himself an "out", or it was Mr. Robot manipulating Elliot's mind with a vision that would help him, so he wouldn't kill himself (and Mr. Robot). I just find it hard to believe that Trenton's parents, having just lost one child, would leave a little kid alone for such a long time with no babysitter.

All the blatant references to time travel make me think that Sam Esmail is messing with us, and it will turn out that Whiterose's plan is something other than time travel. Seems too obvious at this point. I also think Angela is super depressed because she realizes that she's been duped and it was all wishful thinking, believing she can bring people back from the dead.

That scene at the beginning with young Elliot and his dad...wow. Painful. His dad's face when Elliot said he'd never forgive him...my heart just hurt in that moment. I imagine that, for a parent, that would be one of the worst things you can hear. But I was wondering if this does confirm that this dad really did push Elliot out the window?

I'm glad Trenton sent that email to Elliot, though I'm not sure how she knew that he would want to un-do the E-corp hack. As far as she knew, Elliot was the mastermind behind the hack.

I love that Elliot hacked Mobley's brother to ensure that Mobley will get a decent funeral.

 

On 11/30/2017 at 8:30 AM, Chaos Theory said:

I am still not sure if the kid was real or Elliot’s inner child.  The story works both ways.  I actually think it works better as the kid being Elliot’s inner child teaching Elliot to live again.  Either way one of the better episodes this season.  

 

On 11/30/2017 at 8:36 AM, shapeshifter said:

I think your whole post is "spot on," @KaleyFirefly. I wonder if the little brother will become a new regular Elliot alter with Mr. Robot relegated to flashbacks.

I am of the mind that the child was both real and imagined. We've seen Elliot create fantasies to mask things when real life is difficult for him. There was the sitcom episode when Elliot was being beaten by those guys in the prison and the illusion Elliot created to hide the fact that he was in the prison to begin with. I think he was depressed and seriously planning to kill himself but first when through the saying goodbye stage. He gave Flipper away, then went to pay respects to Trenton & Mobley's families. Something about Trenton's little brother reminded him if his 10 year old self. After that the little brother we see exist only in Elliot's head. whle Elliot creates many illusions I think Mr Robot is the only true, alternate personality.

On 11/30/2017 at 2:26 PM, atlantaloves said:

That was a great adventure for Elliott but can someone tell me where they get all their money for rent, cocktails and tons of drugs? Did Elliott and his sister steal a million dollars worth of ECoin? And Flipper better be okay, let me tell ya. 

I loved this episode, beautiful writing and acting on Rami's part.  

I think a combination of things. Elliot has always had a job except for when he was in prison.  High level tech jobs that pay decent money. Elliot's apartment certainly isn't breaking the bank. He has or had credit cards. They asked him about it when giving back his possessions when he was released from prison.  Once he was released from prison Angela got him a job at Ecorp. Other than computer equipment Elliot's not spending a lot of cash. 

On 11/30/2017 at 3:17 PM, green said:

I just read the first line that said that the hack could be reversed.  Which reminded me immediately that Trenton had told Mobley last season that she thought she had figured out a way to reverse the hack.

Anyone have a screen cap of the whole thing?

I'm rewatching now but IIRC it was pretty much what Trenton told Elliot. She had figured out a way to reverse the hack.  Also if you are signed up for the Ecoin site, the perk for this week was a sneak preview of tomorrow's episode.  I added a screenshot of the email. 

Spoiler

Basically Romero has key logging info of the hack on his computer. The one Dom confiscated when they investigated his death. They can recreate the hack from that and possibly undo it. This leads me to suspect that Dom may eventually join forces with Elliot to undo this. 

On 12/1/2017 at 6:04 AM, scrb said:

Was Elliott considering suicide or did he get the morphine to get Mobley's brother to have the funeral?

I didn't think he went to Coney Island to kill himself.  That place must have sentimental value.  Besides being F Society headquarters, it must have been a place Elliott and his father visited.

There are obvious parallels between Elliott and the kid but I don't think he was some imagined alternate self.

Like Elliott (and Angela), the kid has suffered loss early in his life.  His father never took him to the movies as Elliott's father did.  As annoying as he was Elliott felt for the kid.

At the end of the episode, it looked like Elliott was getting back into the game but I think of this as more than a set up for the larger plot.  It illuminates some of the sadness which has always hung over these characters.

Elliot was seriously considering suicide. That's what made the episode so touching. It was his psyche trying to prevent him from killing himself. To see him rally back at the end, demand justice for Trenton & Mobley and then reach out to Angela was really sweet.

Edited December 6, 2017 by Milaxx
screenshot of Trenton's email

[Milaxx]

Quote

On 12/2/2017 at 10:03 AM, maisenza13 said:

 

 I think real, salesperson at the cinema said he saw him.

Regarding the kid being real; I don't think the concession guy saying the kid left is any indication. In fact I think it's an Esmail fake out. We never see the kid interact with anyone but Elliot. Elliot gives the concession guy the vaguest of descriptions, "kid this high wearing a blue hoodie". That could have described half a dozen kids in and out of that theater. The Mohammed Elliot met on the beach was a figment of Elliot's imagination. 

Edited December 6, 2017 by Milaxx

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Milaxx said:

Regarding the kid being real; I don't think the concession guy saying the kid left is any indication. In fact I think it's an Esmail fake out. We never see the kid interact with anyone but Elliot. Elliot gives the concession guy the vaguest of descriptions, "kid this high wearing a blue hoodie". That could have described half a dozen kids in and out of that theater. The Mohammed Elliot met on the beach was a figment of Elliot's imagination. 

I think this is entirely plausible, but I'm not quite sure yet. There's the argument upthread that supports this theory that Mohammed's parents would not have left him home alone after the death of his sister, which makes sense, but I'm still waiting to get a definitive declaration onscreen regarding whether the Mohammed we saw spending time alone with Elliot in this episode was real or imagined.

[Milaxx]

I read that but lost the post to quote it. I completely agree that his parents would not have left him alone. Especially given the circumstances of the world they now live in. If you look in the background you notice the presence of armed guards in most public places. When the boy first appears Elliot questions how he got there. It's a bit of a walk and ride on the subway. What 10 year old would be safe making that journey by himself? Remember his family had to move because of the fallout from Trenton being labeled a terrorist, blamed for the 5/9 hack and the bombing of the 71 E-corp buildings. We've also seen evidence of Elliot's subconscious creating fantasy to work things out; the sitcom episode to mask the beatings he was taking in prison, pretending the prison was his mother's house, even this season where he imagined people with emoji faces when he depression was returning. CoupIed with the fact that this lone child doesn't interact with anyone else leads me to believe child was a figment of Elliot's imagination.  I don't know if we'll get a definitive declaration or if Esmail expects us to figure it out by now. 

[green]

Another anomaly from reality is the ice cream truck driver out after dark that volunteers to take Elliot to the mosque.  What kind of ice cream truck is on the roads that late at night let alone one driven by a Hasidic Jew?

Add in the Christopher Lloyd cosplay (is that the term? a term?) guy who hands Elliot the key to time travel in the form of the flux capacitor at the movie theatre.  We don't even know if he really went to a movie theatre for that matter.  Hopefully he did so that the hallucinations don't go all wild Season 2 on us again and have a more anchored reality to them.  If indeed it was an hallucination.  The fact that we are even discussing Elliot's reality on here just shows how sneaky good Esmail is at this stuff. 

[Cardie]

2 hours ago, green said:

Add in the Christopher Lloyd cosplay (is that the term? a term?)

In fan-speak that is the term. People who dress up as their favorite fictional characters, often at conventions, are said to be cosplaying. There was even a SyFy reality show where fans competed to construct the best costumes, Heroes of Cosplay.

[AudienceofOne]

This episode had such a beautiful surreal feel to it that was nonetheless so sparse and precise in its imagery. it was just beautiful. 

While I usually hate religious metaphors, this was probably the best Jesus walks in the desert and meets himself episodes I've ever seen. I too think most of it didn't happen at all. He met the families but then everything with the boy was simply him coming to terms with himself.

The movie theatre was such a dense barrage of symbolism - time travel, wanting to change the world, reconciling with your past self, nostalgia and revisiting the scene of the "crime" - him taking his father's jacket. 

I particularly liked the contrast of Back to the Future with the Martian. One is about somebody who fucked everything up, the other is about somebody who built something from almost-nothing. And Elliot wanted to dive into the nostalgia of his biggest failures while the child-like part of him wanting him to fight back and rebuild. 

And then adding in the War of the Worlds, where humans prevailed - not through conflict or violence - through simple resilience. The aliens defeated themselves, we just had to stay alive long enough of it to happen. 

In fact, this was such an extraordinary episode I feel like watching it again.

PS - Time travel is impossible at least based on what we know about physics currently. So while it's not out of the realms of possibility that we could be talking about parallel universes, I strongly believe that time travel remains a red herring. This episode just re-enforced that.

[TVbitch]

When Elliot burst out crying at the kid's door, I did too. This show!