Call Me By Your Name (2017)

[sweetcookieface]

Just saw this movie this afternoon, and thought it lived up to all the hype. Definitely one of the best movies I've seen in a while.

The chemistry between the two leads was incredible. Armie Hammer was great, but I was really blown away by Timothee Chalamet (this is the first thing I've seen him in). In some ways, I thought he had the trickier role - his Elio was more introverted and restrained to Hammer's more extroverted, charismatic Oliver - but he was so expressive. I thought he conveyed so much even through body language - not just his eyes, but even the way he moved his gangly body. I also loved that the relationship had a sort of natural rhythm to it - it progressed in fits and starts... Elio's studied indifference in the beginning of the film, then a kiss, then a period of awkward avoidance, then a little more... The love scenes were also realistically choreographed (plenty of fumbling, not shot in an overly sexualized/titillating way, etc.). And, of course, there's the heartbreaking ending, which felt very true to life.

I really appreciated the film's avoidance of the usual tropes. I read somewhere that the filmmaker could have gotten a bigger budget if he added an antagonist to "up the stakes," but he refused. I also liked that Elio's relationship with his girlfriend wasn't played for laughs or filled with angst.

One thing I may have missed: During the scene where Elio and Oliver are circling the monument, Oliver comments on how Elio knows about everything, and Elio replies something to the effect of "Not about the things that matter." That's supposed to be what tips Oliver off about Elio's feelings towards him. I was a little surprised because Elio's comment seemed so subtle and ambiguous; if I were in Oliver's place, I'm not sure I would have interpreted that as a come on, especially given Elio's previous "rejections" (e.g., later in the film, Oliver comments on the time he tried to massage Elio's shoulders, and how Elio acted like he was molesting him).  Was there more to the confession that I missed?

ETA: There were also two things I wondered about during the father's big speech at the end:

1. Did you come away from the monologue thinking the father may have been gay or bi, and was lamenting his failure to explore that side of him, or did you take as a more general expression of regret?

2. Did you get the sense that the father knew all along - or at least for some time - that Elio and Oliver were involved, or did it only become apparent upon seeing Elio's heartbreak after Oliver left? I initially thought the latter, but Oliver wasn't surprised to hear that the father knew; he mentioned on the phone that he always treated him like a son-in-law. Maybe the parents even arranged for Elio to spend those last couple of days with Oliver out of town because they knew how precious the time was for them? (That's probably a stretch, especially since the mother was the one who suggested it, and it's not clear she knew they were involved at that point.)

Anyway, great movie. Even though I'm a 40-year old cis woman, the feelings of nostalgia and loss this movie evoked really resonated with me. I wish I had received - and taken - Michael Stuhlbarg's advice when I was a kid!

Edited November 26, 2017 by sweetcookieface

[Unusual Suspect]

I loved this movie. There was a lot to like, the lush scenery, the chemistry between the leads is off the charts, it was a joy to experience.

[Clare]

I loved this movie so much.  Glad it lived up to the hype.  Timothee Chalamet was amazing,  hope he gets nominated for all the awards.

On ‎2017‎-‎11‎-‎26 at 0:22 AM, sweetcookieface said:

One thing I may have missed: During the scene where Elio and Oliver are circling the monument, Oliver comments on how Elio knows about everything, and Elio replies something to the effect of "Not about the things that matter." That's supposed to be what tips Oliver off about Elio's feelings towards him. I was a little surprised because Elio's comment seemed so subtle and ambiguous

I think that they likely had a chemistry and attraction that they were both aware.  They were both verbalizing something that they knew was brewing between them. 

On ‎2017‎-‎11‎-‎26 at 0:22 AM, sweetcookieface said:

1. Did you come away from the monologue thinking the father may have been gay or bi, and was lamenting his failure to explore that side of him, or did you take as a more general expression of regret?

Yes I thought he was expressing regret about not exploring his relationship with another man.  

I also thought that both parents knew what was going on prior to the away trip.  There seemed to be a lot of knowing looks.  I think they suggested so they could be together, they're European and it was the 80;s, LOL.

[Irlandesa]

This movie was sooo European and I sooo loved it.  Timothee Chalamet lives up to his hype.  I loved his performance. I loved Elio. I could have watched him forever and I hope, if they do a sequel, they keep the focus on him.  Armie Hammer was very good too but for some reason I felt like I was watching Armie while with Timothee I didn't.  It's not as if the role was a transformative one with makeup...etc. but there were little things about him that were different than the way he carries himself in interviews.  I just want to hug the performance.

I want to see it again.  The whole time, I was comparing it to the book and I've been "ruined" by some of the spoilers on Tumblr.  So much of the beginning of the movie had been leaked that I was checking off the familiarity without settling into the whole narrative. I enjoyed it more once I started seeing parts of it I hadn't seen.

On 11/25/2017 at 10:22 PM, sweetcookieface said:

I also liked that Elio's relationship with his girlfriend wasn't played for laughs or filled with angst.

There was some angst.  He was a little fuckboi with her but I liked her kindness when she saw him in pain.  And I loved how they played out their first time.

On 11/25/2017 at 10:22 PM, sweetcookieface said:

That's supposed to be what tips Oliver off about Elio's feelings towards him. I was a little surprised because Elio's comment seemed so subtle and ambiguous; if I were in Oliver's place, I'm not sure I would have interpreted that as a come on, especially given Elio's previous "rejections" (e.g., later in the film, Oliver comments on the time he tried to massage Elio's shoulders, and how Elio acted like he was molesting him).  Was there more to the confession that I missed?

No.  I think the book explains this more explicitly but Oliver reveals that he was aware of some of the things Elio thought he was hiding.  The movie is mostly through Elio's eyes so he sees Oliver as oblivious to his changing moods or his furtive stares or where he doesn't think Oliver realizes when he's flirting with him (at the piano) or why he's irritated/jealous of him (like when they were going on the field trip).  He thinks he's smooth in covering his attraction by pushing Chiara on him even though he wasn't.  Elio didn't do it in a teasing or male bonding kind of way.  It was almost hostile.  Just before they go into town, they have the conversation about the "is it better to speak or die" story Elio's mom had told him.  It was setting the stage.  Elio chose to speak. 

So I think that's how he knew.

On 11/25/2017 at 10:22 PM, sweetcookieface said:

1. Did you come away from the monologue thinking the father may have been gay or bi, and was lamenting his failure to explore that side of him, or did you take as a more general expression of regret?

That's the popular takeaway but I think it was more just an expression of regret. 

On 11/25/2017 at 10:22 PM, sweetcookieface said:

2. Did you get the sense that the father knew all along - or at least for some time - that Elio and Oliver were involved, or did it only become apparent upon seeing Elio's heartbreak after Oliver left?

I think they suspected.  They're tuned into their son and I think they even made overtures towards him to let him know that Elio could open up.  Again, that story about the knight who wanted to know if it was better to speak or to die was a pivotal moment in the story.  I don't think it was an accident that she chose that to read out loud.  After she finished, he came right out and said he wasn't sure if he'd have the courage to speak and his dad told him that Elio could always talk with them.  Considering he was bragging about almost sleeping with Marzia, they knew he wasn't speaking of her. Again, I'd have to go back to watch to see if they focused on some of the knowing but there were also little things like Elio started to wear his Star of David necklace like Oliver.  And for a few days, when Oliver was trying to keep his distance, Elio kept asking where he was.  Then on the day before their first time, Elio kept looking at his watch in front of everyone.  However, when Oliver got home, he did his dramatic "I am so tired" move and started to head upstairs.  Except he forgot his watch and his dad had to give it to him. 

When his mom suggested Elio go away with Oliver, she knew what was up.  I think during the dad's monologue, he was letting his son preserve a semblance of privacy about the relationship.  He referred to the relationship as a "special friendship" with only a slight reference to there possibly being "more."  And he pretended like the mother didn't know even though he knew damn well she did.  By the time the holidays come around, Elio is probably more mature and recognizes that his parents knew more than he thought they did. 

Plus, there's a cut scene that will probably end up on the DVDs but I'll put it under spoilers here--

Spoiler

It wasn't in the book but one scene that was cut for time was between the parents.  When Elio and Oliver were talking about how much time they wasted in the beginning, we see the Pearlmans in bed and they can overhear that conversation.  They get romantic too.

[starri]

7 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I think they suspected.  They're tuned into their son and I think they even made overtures towards him to let him know that Elio could open up.  Again, that story about the knight who wanted to know if it was better to speak or to die was a pivotal moment in the story.  I don't think it was an accident that she chose that to read out loud

I think at least the mom definitely knew.  I've been rereading the book, and the story features there as well, but it that case, It's Elio finding the book and reading the story himself.  Putting it in the mom's hands had to be deliberate.

Luca Guadagnino has said that he's considering turning the story into a version of Linklater's Before... trilogy.  I really hope he doesn't.

Edited December 23, 2017 by starri

[StatisticalOutlier]

Anybody else take note of Armie Hammer dancing?  He was really really good, and as I was watching it, I thought, "Wait, is this the same guy who directed the one where Ralph Fiennes did that hilariously awful dance to the Rolling Stones' Emotional Rescue?"  And it is, so he's got a real knack for directing random dance sequences.

I also thought the sound design was brilliant, and I usually don't notice things like that.

Edited January 7, 2018 by StatisticalOutlier
Did't realize there was already a thread.

[methodwriter85]

On 12/23/2017 at 6:46 AM, starri said:

Luca Guadagnino has said that he's considering turning the story into a version of Linklater's Before... trilogy.  I really hope he doesn't.

I don't really see how that could work. You're only 17 once. You're only in love for the first time once. The love story between these guys is preserved in amber. Let it stay that way.

Timothee captured being 17 just so well. It was incredible- he was such a ball of adolescent energy and yearning and sadness and joy and it just made me smile to remember what it was like when I was that age. And I loved that he kissed like a horny young boy who wants to french immediately, rather than doing some pretty movie screen kiss.

I get that people are bugged that they toned down the sex scenes, but I knew that going in so I didn't mind as much. They still managed to give off that intimate feel with the guys, in any event. I am glad that we at least saw dedicated make out sessions- I still rage a bit when I think of the chaste little 1-second kiss at the end of Red Dirt, Walt Goggin's gay film from 2000. It seriously pissed me off because he and his co-star from the film actually had pretty decent chemistry and I wanted to see at least one sustained kiss.

On 1/6/2018 at 6:12 PM, StatisticalOutlier said:

Anybody else take note of Armie Hammer dancing?  He was really really good, and as I was watching it, I thought, "Wait, is this the same guy who directed the one where Ralph Fiennes did that hilariously awful dance to the Rolling Stones' Emotional Rescue?"  And it is, so he's got a real knack for directing random dance sequences.

It was pretty funny, but I felt like "Love My Way" wasn't the right tune for the scene. It had a softer kind of feel and they were dancing like they were listening to a real banger. I do really like that song but yeah.

I kept wanting to hear "La Dolce Vita" at some point, but this was a pretty budget production so maybe they couldn't afford it.

I teared up with the dad's speech, especially about how you can't shut yourself down to not feel anything, or you won't have anything to give by the time you're 30. I really related to that. I think having an open heart is one of the best things about being a teenager, but of course the downside is that it's easy to get crushed. I think that's why most people tend to shut that down a bit by the time they get to their 30's.

The end credits was pretty brilliant. That kid has a bright future.

[NUguy514]

This is a gay movie made for straight people.

However, Timothée Chalamet is beyond exceptional; I voted for him for the SAG award.

[StatisticalOutlier]

12 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

It was pretty funny, but I felt like "Love My Way" wasn't the right tune for the scene. It had a softer kind of feel and they were dancing like they were listening to a real banger. I do really like that song but yeah.

I thought his dancing was smooth, and matched the song (which I never have been all that fond of, but it worked here for me). 

 

Quote

This is a gay movie made for straight people.

I didn't know this was a gay movie.  And I'm straight, so you'd think I'd realize it since it was made for me.  

Oh well.  I liked it a lot, regardless.

[NUguy514]

10 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

I didn't know this was a gay movie.  And I'm straight, so you'd think I'd realize it since it was made for me.  

Oh well.  I liked it a lot, regardless.

Yes, I suppose straight privilege has its benefits in that way.  I wouldn't know.  I did like a lot of things about the movie very much, though.

Edited January 19, 2018 by NUguy514

[methodwriter85]

Bummer that Armie Hammer or Micheal Stuhlbarg didn't make the cut for Best Supporting, but I'm thrilled for Tim.

[Bruinsfan]

It didn't blow me away as I'd been hoping it would, partially because the too-much-left-unsaid buildup of the romance didn't convince me that Elio and Oliver had deeper feelings for one another than youthful horniness until their scene on the balcony together, which was what? 2/3 of the way through the movie? Also, outside of the house and that one garden dining area the cinematography struck me as rather pedestrian, which I did NOT expect to feel about a movie shot on location in northern Italy in the summer. But I did appreciate that there wasn't some big tragedy of parental discovery/freak-outs, torch-bearing mobs of bigoted locals, or one of the characters discovering they had AIDs with mere moments left to live. Just a fairly real-feeling summer fling whose main enemy was time.

While I thought Hammer did a generally good job and I appreciate that he sold me on the intimacy and mutual yearning with Chalamet, I thought he was the weakest link in the cast. Also, between him looking like he's in his mid-30s rather than the 24 the character was supposed to be and playing him even older (whose idea was it to have Oliver fitting in with a poker circle of retirees five minutes into his exploration of Lombardy?), it made their difference in age and maturity a lot skeevier than it should have been.

[snickers]

Ok, so this movie came to my  area on Jan 19...I've seen it twice LOL

I LOVED LOVED LOVED this movie...omg it is so so so good......i get why it was so hyped up when it came out, was it Sundance Jan 2017?

Unfortunately though, i think it has lost major steam because it came out so long ago....I think it's a travesty the director didn't get an oscar nom for best director nor did it get a cinematography nom.....what gives?

At this point i think it MIGHT get best adapted screenplay.

If T.Chalamet got best actor it be the biggest upset, but, it be so deserving if he did....he was excellent in this.....I saw him in Lady Bird and thought he was just ok....it's like he's a completely different actor in this....guess it just shows you give someone excellent material and their wings can really fly.....to me he carried Armie Hammer....who is so wooden and stiff....i mean, this is the probably the best performance by Hammer, but i still see him as one dimensional...not surprised by the lack of the oscar nom

On 1/25/2018 at 3:13 PM, Bruinsfan said:

It didn't blow me away as I'd been hoping it would, partially because the too-much-left-unsaid buildup of the romance didn't convince me that Elio and Oliver had deeper feelings for one another than youthful horniness until their scene on the balcony together, which was what? 2/3 of the way through the movie?

see, i thought that's what made the movie so great....so much was unsaid, but it was all there from the beginning....the look on T.Chalamet's face....to me he owned this movie....that's why i was so impressed with him....the flirting at the piano with the bach sence, the constant pushing him away/pulling him back....he was acting like a typical teen......jealousy in high gear......his emotions were all over the place because he had those crazy feelings for him...to me words weren't needed.....

 

On 1/25/2018 at 3:13 PM, Bruinsfan said:

Also, between him looking like he's in his mid-30s rather than the 24 the character was supposed to be and playing him even older (whose idea was it to have Oliver fitting in with a poker circle of retirees five minutes into his exploration of Lombardy?), it made their difference in age and maturity a lot skeevier than it should have been.

yeah, hammer didn't look 24 but to me he also looks older than 31 so......but i have seen some complaints about the creepiness factor of the story....totally disagree.....the character of elio overall i thought was very mature....but still a teen.....i didn't see anything creepy about what was going on....unfortunately I think teens today overall might be slightly more immature? I don't know.....I don't know if one would see this kind of thing happen as much today....but back then.....totally could see it......

[Runningwild]

I thought it was quite creepy and skeevy. Elio is just a teenage boy. Hammer’s character was a grown man. Here in the US, it’s statutory rape. Imagine if Elio was a she. 

[Irlandesa]

On 1/30/2018 at 9:39 PM, Runningwild said:

I thought it was quite creepy and skeevy. Elio is just a teenage boy. Hammer’s character was a grown man. Here in the US, it’s statutory rape. Imagine if Elio was a she. 

You mean like Dirty Dancing?

And I bring this up not to change people's minds.  People experience it how they experience it.  For many reasons, I wasn't bothered.  But we don't have to imagine if it were between an opposite sex couple. 

[snickers]

Armie Hammer said in an interview that Elio was not a child and looked at him as an adult. I’m not totally in agreement with that, Elio at times acted very much the teenager, but, Elio I thought was definitely more mature than most kids his age, I think being in such an intense relationship like that not all teens could handle, obviously his parents believed not only he could handle it, but that it was good for him. So to me by no means was this satutory rape, Elio was the one who was the aggressor, he’s the one who kept going in for more, grabbing Oliver’s privates, he knew what he wanted.  

 

And the the age difference is supposed to be 17 and 24.....I think people just can’t get past hammers older looks?

[NUguy514]

1 hour ago, Runningwild said:

Here in the US, it’s statutory rape. Imagine if Elio was a she. 

Well, the issue with that is that the movie takes place in Italy, where the age of consent is 14, so it really doesn't matter what it would be considered in the US because it's not statutory rape in Italy.  Also, it would only be considered statutory rape in eleven states in the US; thirty-nine states have the age of consent set at 17 or 18, so it likely wouldn't be considered statutory rape in the US either.

Hammer, frankly, looks much too old to play a 24-year-old, and I think that is a legitimate problem in the film.  A good friend called me after she saw it on Sunday (she thought it was beautiful) and was shocked to learn Oliver is supposed to be 24.

Also, if Elio were a she, the sex between them would've been shown much more explicitly (as in the 2015 film The Diary of a Teenage Girl, for example), rather than mostly alluded to; that is a hypocritical, systemic problem in the film industry as a whole.

[Bruinsfan]

Yeah, even if Oliver were the thirtysomething grown-ass man Hammer looks like rather than the 24-year-old grad student he's supposed to be, nothing criminal was going on since it involved a young man past the age of consent. It was at worst skeevy, but I think a double standard isn't entirely uncalled for in borderline cases like this because compared to straight teenagers, LGBT teens have vastly fewer opportunities to meet someone who might return their interest and vastly fewer venues in which they can explore dating and romance safely.

I'll also note that I've heard a lot of straight people cheering for May-December liasons when they involve young teen boys and middle school teachers (which I definitely think should be treated as criminal molestation!), so long as the teachers are hot women they might fantasize about themselves. Apparently it only becomes an outrage if gayness is involved.

Edited January 31, 2018 by Bruinsfan

[Runningwild]

17 hours ago, NUguy514 said:

Well, the issue with that is that the movie takes place in Italy, where the age of consent is 14, so it really doesn't matter what it would be considered in the US because it's not statutory rape in Italy.  Also, it would only be considered statutory rape in eleven states in the US; thirty-nine states have the age of consent set at 17 or 18, so it likely wouldn't be considered statutory rape in the US either.

Hammer, frankly, looks much too old to play a 24-year-old, and I think that is a legitimate problem in the film.  A good friend called me after she saw it on Sunday (she thought it was beautiful) and was shocked to learn Oliver is supposed to be 24.

Also, if Elio were a she, the sex between them would've been shown much more explicitly (as in the 2015 film The Diary of a Teenage Girl, for example), rather than mostly alluded to; that is a hypocritical, systemic problem in the film industry as a whole.

The problem is the parents encouraging a relationship between their teenage boy and the grown man. Just because there’s explicit sex in a film doesn’t make it right. My point wasn’t about the sex wasn’t explicit enough or was too explicit  my point was and remains the age differences. I stand by my opinion. It’s skeevy for a 24 year old to be with a 17 year old. No matter the second either participant.  It has nothing to do with gayness. The only May-December romances I cheer for is if both participants are adults. Preferably over 24. 

Edited January 31, 2018 by Runningwild

[snickers]

Fair enough-and I don’t mean to sound like a jerk when i ask this but, you did know before seeing the movie what it was about right? Because most of the criticism I heard was from people who formed opinions without actually seeing the movie. To me the trailer pretty much laid out what this movie was about.

[NUguy514]

3 hours ago, Runningwild said:

The problem is the parents encouraging a relationship between their teenage boy and the grown man. Just because there’s explicit sex in a film doesn’t make it right. My point wasn’t about the sex wasn’t explicit enough or was too explicit  my point was and remains the age differences. I stand by my opinion. It’s skeevy for a 24 year old to be with a 17 year old. No matter the second either participant.  It has nothing to do with gayness. The only May-December romances I cheer for is if both participants are adults. Preferably over 24. 

It's still not a crime for 17-year-old and a 24-year-old to be in a relationship in Italy, and that's really what I took issue with in your original post.  You may find it skeevy, which is obviously a valid point-of-view, but it's not a crime and shouldn't be equated with one.

[Runningwild]

28 minutes ago, NUguy514 said:

It's still not a crime for 17-year-old and a 24-year-old to be in a relationship in Italy, and that's really what I took issue with in your original post.  You may find it skeevy, which is obviously a valid point-of-view, but it's not a crime and shouldn't be equated with one.

It’s a crime where I live. And I deal with criminal cases all day long and read about plenty of perverts doing things to kids they shouldn’t. I think 14 is way too young to be considered an age of consent. YMMV

[snickers]

Runningwild, can you please explain what Oliver did to Elio that was perverted? I’m seriously trying to understand your logic here. I think we’ve all heard about legitimate abuse cases involving minors, but this fictional story by no means can seriously be compared to that.

[tongueincheek]

Michael Stuhlbarg's monologue is one of the most visceral and breathtaking moments on screen I've seen in the past 12 years or so. 

[NUguy514]

3 hours ago, Runningwild said:

It’s a crime where I live. And I deal with criminal cases all day long and read about plenty of perverts doing things to kids they shouldn’t. I think 14 is way too young to be considered an age of consent. YMMV

Yeah, I didn't say I personally think 14 should be the age of consent anywhere, so there's no need to "YMMV" me.  I was simply clarifying Italy's age of consent and pointing out that it's not right to conflate this particular relationship with statutory rape because it isn't where the film is set, regardless of whether it is where you live; there is no mileage to vary here because that's the actual law in Italy.

I'd echo @snickers and ask if you knew what this film was about when you saw it.

[Dejana]

I watch a show based on a book series and in one season just last year, three hetero sexual situations had a character aged up 1-3 years from the source material to appease modern sensibilities. So I don't look at that decision as some sort of concession to homophobia, but it seems like others do and that was never a consideration for adapting CMBYN. I feel like the age difference and fear of the reaction to it, has held the movie back in a way and caused it to be promoted somewhat more hesitantly, if that makes sense. So, you get a situation where the stars go on talk shows and stay away from mentioning Elio's age, as not to stir up controversy. People who don't really look up movies before going to see them go to this and get outraged, because they view 18 as the gold standard age of consent throughout all time and space even though scientists now say adolescence should be extended to 24, so in a hundred years, who knows, people might view 18 as a barbarically low age for sexual activity.

You do get selective outrage about this movie (James Woods) but I don't think all the negative reaction the age difference can be dismissed as homophobia. Dirty Dancing was huge but it was 30 years ago; I can't see a major studio greenlighting that script as is, now or it not being more controversial than it was at the time. The Diary of a Teenage Girl flopped (less than $1.5 million at the box office) despite Sundance buzz and critical acclaim, likely because of the graphic sexuality with such a young character. An Education made it through Oscar season without this much controversy but it was also PG-13 and presented the central relationship as A Bad Thing. A much dicier dynamic there than here in CMBYN, granted.

 

I feel that the father had a relationship with a man in the past and isn't unhappy in his marriage but maybe has regrets about not pursuing it?

Edited February 2, 2018 by Dejana

[luna1122]

I loved this film, and my pick for best actor is definitely Timothee C, (but he's likely going to lose to Gary Oldman). His was a really visceral performance, he used his face and body so eloquently. He deserves awards just for that final scene was the credits roll and the whole love affair and its end plays across his expressive face.

I get some finding the whole scenario creepy, in this age of Roy Moores and Kevin Spacey. I did not. The age difference is supposed to be a mere 7 years, and the age of consent, whether we agree with it or not, being what it is in Italy--it's not criminal. not to mention that Elio is the passionate, adventure-hungry one who truly pushes the relationship forward. Armie, despite being ridiculously gorgeous, does look older even that his actual age, so I do think that is partly what gives some pause. but the Dirty Dancing comparison is pretty apt...maybe that wouldn't get greenlit now but I've not personally ever seen anyone object to THAT one being about a teenager and a 30 year old man.

I definitely believe the parents knew. They were almost too good to be true...they're like manic pixie dream parents. His dad...yeah, I took that last scene to mean that he'd had a relationship with a man when he was younger that he wish he'd pursued...whether that means he's gay or bi, I don't know...I also wasn't sure if he was telling Elio he'd been living a lie in his marriage, that he'd never really loved his mom...I hope that's not the case, but it was ambiguous.

I did feel bad for all the women in the movie...all wound up being fairly incidental to the men, who preferred the company, at least in this case, of other men.

I did find it all very languid and lovely and literate and beautiful...true travel porn. I yearn for that house.

[Ohwell]

I saw Armie Hammer and Timothy C. in a tv interview and it skeeved me out just watching them because Armie looked so much older than Timothy.

[Runningwild]

9 hours ago, NUguy514 said:

Yeah, I didn't say I personally think 14 should be the age of consent anywhere, so there's no need to "YMMV" me.  I was simply clarifying Italy's age of consent and pointing out that it's not right to conflate this particular relationship with statutory rape because it isn't where the film is set, regardless of whether it is where you live; there is no mileage to vary here because that's the actual law in Italy.

I'd echo @snickers and ask if you knew what this film was about when you saw it.

You said I might find it skeevy. You don’t. Again YMMV. 

 

I never said perverted. And yes I knew what it was about. Does that somehow mean I can’t still find it skeevy?  At the end, Elio still seems affected, while the man has moved on. To ME (and maybe not anyone else), Elio was used by this older man and tossed aside.  I also feel like Armie’s character manipulated the boy to pursue him.  And since the man was there to work in a scholarly setting, it gave me more of a teacher/student feeling to the relationship which adds to the skeeviness.  Those are my feelings. 

Edited February 1, 2018 by Runningwild

[Athena]

OFFICIAL MOD NOTE:

Please be civil to one another. You can all have different opinions about a movie without becoming personal about those opinions. Agree to disagree and move on. Thank you.

[Clare]

I guess YMMV is true.  I thought it was a beautiful story,  I could suspend my disbelief a little about Armie Hammer's real age.  I think the age difference was fine for these two characters, there was no power imbalance between them and Elio parents were comfortable.   I love a good love story, this and The Big Sick were probably my two favourite movies last year.  I know it's a longshot but I really want Timothee Chalamet to win the best actor award.

[NUguy514]

7 hours ago, Runningwild said:

You said I might find it skeevy. You don’t. Again YMMV. 

I never said I didn't find it skeevy, and I also never said you said it was perverted; please don't put words in my mouth.

[Bruinsfan]

10 hours ago, Dejana said:

I feel that the father had a relationship with a man in the past and isn't unhappy in his marriage but maybe has regrets about not pursuing it?

That was my impression as well. Something about his conversation with Oliver during the statue slideshow, and then that scene where he encouraged everyone to strip down and go wading in the sea, kind of made me feel like he might have had some vague intentions of putting the moves on Oliver himself (or at least feeling out how open he might be to such) until it became clear to him that Elio was smitten and having his affections returned.

[Irlandesa]

23 hours ago, NUguy514 said:

It's still not a crime for 17-year-old and a 24-year-old to be in a relationship in Italy, and that's really what I took issue with in your original post. 

And it's not just Italy; most of Europe has the age of consent younger than 18.  As @Dejana points out, that might be seen as incredibly young in years to come but somehow I doubt it.  The brain not be fully formed until a person turns 24 (I've seen 26 as well) but sexuality and sexual urges manifest themselves at a much younger age.  Hormones will win. 

13 hours ago, Dejana said:

Dirty Dancing was huge but it was 30 years ago; I can't see a major studio greenlighting that script as is, now or it not being more controversial than it was at the time.

I could see them flipping her age to 18 just to appease those who might have a reaction due to "18=legal" is so ingrained but I am not convinced they'd bother. The original was 30 years ago but they just redid it for TV this summer with actors who are the same ages as Timothee and Armie.  The movie got a lot of criticism because it was bad but I don't recall much of anyone talking about the ages. 

On 1/30/2018 at 11:54 PM, NUguy514 said:

Also, if Elio were a she, the sex between them would've been shown much more explicitly (as in the 2015 film The Diary of a Teenage Girl, for example), rather than mostly alluded to; that is a hypocritical, systemic problem in the film industry as a whole.

There is. But I found the sex between Elio and Marzia and Elio and Oliver to be equally "explicit" or "not explicit" in equal ways. 

[Silver Raven]

I can see why this movie got the nominations.  And the final scene with the credits rolling was enough, for me, to give Timothee Chalamet the nomination.  The movie is tender, even as uncomfortable as it is to watch, and sad, and lovely.

And damn, the Sufjan Stevens songs are golden.

Can somebody explain the significance of the nose bleeds?  Does Elio have leukemia?

Edited February 4, 2018 by Silver Raven

[Silver Raven]

On 2/1/2018 at 5:31 AM, Dejana said:

I watch a show based on a book series and in one season just last year, three hetero sexual situations had a character aged up 1-3 years from the source material to appease modern sensibilities.

Yeah, let's talk about Tuck Everlasting, where in the book the girl is ten and yet the immortal kid who looks 17 is about 100.  They at least aged her up in the move to something like 15. Not to mention Twilight ...

[Bruinsfan]

I'd like to see some material dealing with that kind of plot acknowledge how arrested the development of the immortal character would have to be to be that into someone the age of their physical appearance rather than finding more in common with a partner with the decades of extra life experience to have more in common with them. If you're 100+ years old and recoiling from the old hags in their late 20s to chase after teenagers, you need to get your ass into therapy stat!

[Brn2bwild]

I feel like I need to watch this movie a second time because I wasn't moved by it the first time.  The two leads seemed to have no chemistry, though Timothee Chalamet was good.  I'm probably the only viewer who thought the visuals weren't that great, either.  They seemed to be filmed in a very flat way.

[methodwriter85]

On 2/1/2018 at 10:44 PM, Irlandesa said:

 

 But I found the sex between Elio and Marzia and Elio and Oliver to be equally "explicit" or "not explicit" in equal ways. 

Yeah. I think the hetero sex and gay sex in this were relatively balanced.

[snickers]

21 hours ago, Silver Raven said:

I can see why this movie got the nominations.  And the final scene with the credits rolling was enough, for me, to give Timothee Chalamet the nomination.  The movie is tender, even as uncomfortable as it is to watch, and sad, and lovely.

And damn, the Sufjan Stevens songs are golden.

Can somebody explain the significance of the nose bleeds?  Does Elio have leukemia?

In the movie Elio’s mom made a comment during that scene that it happened all the time, but in the book, during that scene Elio and Oliver were playing footsies under the table then he got the nosebleed, I actually think it was supposed to be the same scene...I wonder if it got edited out. Because in the book Oliver says the same line after asking if the nosebleed happened because of him.  

 

7 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

I feel like I need to watch this movie a second time because I wasn't moved by it the first time.  The two leads seemed to have no chemistry, though Timothee Chalamet was good.  I'm probably the only viewer who thought the visuals weren't that great, either.  They seemed to be filmed in a very flat way.

While I do think the two leads have good chemistry I can see some would think otherwise, like I said upthread I really feel Timothee Chalamet carried Armie Hammer at times during the movie. 

 

I may may have to watch this Diary of a teenage girl....sounds interesting.....but while on the subject of stories about older men/younger girls in movies, the movie the Lover was not mentioned....would love to hear people’s opinion on that one if they remember that movie and the controversy of it in the states....personally I love the movie, one of my all time favs like this one now is

[Irlandesa]

21 hours ago, Silver Raven said:

Can somebody explain the significance of the nose bleeds?  Does Elio have leukemia?

No.  He just has a tendency to have nosebleeds.  Especially in tenser/heightened situations.  In the book

Spoiler

Elio and Oliver were basically playing footsie under the table when he got his nosebleed.

 

8 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

 They seemed to be filmed in a very flat way.

I do think it was impressive they got it to look sunny when it actually rained most of the shoot. 

[Bruinsfan]

That might explain the lack of golden Italian sunlight that left me wanting.

I guess Elio is an anime character if he gets nosebleeds simultaneously with being turned on...

[Jan Spears]

I saw it on Sunday.

I went into it not knowing how I would feel about the 24/17 issue but honestly, after seeing the film, it didn't bother me at all. Elio could be, in turns, quite adult and quite adolescent. But there were times when Oliver acted less mature than Elio. But for Armie Hammer looking much older than 24, the two characters actually seemed much closer in age.

If anything bothered me, it was Marzia being shown frontally nude when the two guys weren't.

I thought the father's speech was a general expression of regret which each audience member can read whatever they want to into it.

I also thought the parents definitely knew what was happening at a certain point and that it would be good for Elio to have this experience with Oliver, who they trusted with their son.

I didn't find the ending to be tragic for Elio. Oliver was Elio's first love but not necessarily his true love. In contrast, Oliver's ending seemed more tragic to me based on the comment he made about his father not being accepting of a gay son. (I forget the exact words Oliver said.) To me, Oliver compromises at the end whereas I envisioned Elio remaining true to himself.

[snickers]

1 hour ago, Jan Spears said:

I saw it on Sunday.

I went into it not knowing how I would feel about the 24/17 issue but honestly, after seeing the film, it didn't bother me at all. Elio could be, in turns, quite adult and quite adolescent. But there were times when Oliver acted less mature than Elio. But for Armie Hammer looking much older than 24, the two characters actually seemed much closer in age.

If anything bothered me, it was Marzia being shown frontally nude when the two guys weren't.

I thought the father's speech was a general expression of regret which each audience member can read whatever they want to into it.

I also thought the parents definitely knew what was happening at a certain point and that it would be good for Elio to have this experience with Oliver, who they trusted with their son.

I didn't find the ending to be tragic for Elio. Oliver was Elio's first love but not necessarily his true love. In contrast, Oliver's ending seemed more tragic to me based on the comment he made about his father not being accepting of a gay son. (I forget the exact words Oliver said.) To me, Oliver compromises at the end whereas I envisioned Elio remaining true to himself.

Not his true love? I know some might not be interested in reading the novel of this movie, but it’s a short read and one definitely knows elio’s feelings towards Oliver more than this movie since the entire thing is from elio’s point of view. 

I agree about Oliver though, but typical especially during that time period.

[rwlevin]

1 hour ago, snickers said:

If anything bothered me, it was Marzia being shown frontally nude when the two guys weren't.

Both actors signed non frontal nudity clauses so the director’s hands were tied on that aspect.

[Jan Spears]

2 hours ago, snickers said:

Not his true love? I know some might not be interested in reading the novel of this movie, but it’s a short read and one definitely knows elio’s feelings towards Oliver more than this movie since the entire thing is from elio’s point of view. 

I thought the movie ending (compared to the book ending, which I've only read summaries of) gave more room for interpretation regarding Elio and Oliver. Yes, Elio was heartbroken that Oliver wouldn't be coming back to him. But I envisioned Elio being too dynamic of a person to become forever mired in heartbreak. I walked out of the theater thinking that Elio would move on to find someone else while always retaining the fondest of memories of what happened that summer. The person I felt sorry for was Oliver, who buckled under social pressure in a way that I don't Elio ever would or could. But that's the beauty of the ending and the movie. It leaves enough unanswered that each viewer can write the final fates of Elio and Oliver.

Edited February 7, 2018 by Jan Spears

[Jan Spears]

4 minutes ago, rwlevin said:

Both actors signed non frontal nudity clauses so the director’s hands were tied on that aspect.

I read about that but my feeling is, once the two male leads declined to do frontal nudity, the director should have exempted the young actress as well. I just found it jarring and it took me out of the story momentarily.

[Irlandesa]

I've heard conflicting reports on the full frontal question.  The only one definitively saying that is James Ivory but he's neither a producer or was on set during filming.

51 minutes ago, Jan Spears said:

I read about that but my feeling is, once the two male leads declined to do frontal nudity, the director should have exempted the young actress as well.

She's French.  I don't know if they're as concerned with nudity as American actresses/actors because there is a bit more equality in nudity.  That said, it's pretty typical that breasts are somehow seen as equal to male butts on screen.  I don't know that I agree but she wasn't full frontal either.

1 hour ago, Jan Spears said:

But I envisioned Elio being too dynamic of a person to become forever mired in heartbreak.

That sort of aligns with the book.

Spoiler

Elio has other lovers and generally sees Oliver in the past.  It isn't until they run into one another again so many years later that Oliver's place in his life is really put into perspective--and actually increases in importance.

[JustaPerson]

To be fair to Armie Hammer, he looked mid-30s when he was in The Social Network when he actually was 24. It's just his face. 

This movie was beautiful. I'll echo what others have said about his dad's speech and everything else. I thought for sure the "call by your name" thing was a reference to literature but it doesn't seem to be. It's a bit of a strange thing to do when I really thought about it, but it was very poignant in the context of the film. When Elio (great name) said his name into the phone in their last conversation, I thought for sure Oliver wouldn't reciprocate or hang up and I was relieved he did. I don't know if I could have taken that. 

[Unusual Suspect]

Just finished the novel, it was interesting. Especially their meet ups after the events of the summer, it made me understand Oliver a bit more.