S03.E05: eps3.4_runtime-err0r.r00

[Princess Sparkle]

Quote

E Corp is in chaos; Elliot is on the run; Darlene tries to help.

[Cardie]

Whoa, that was intense and a technical tour de force, although the plot didn't actually advance much. On the aftershow, Esmail said there is a big twist coming as in previous seasons but no one had guessed yet. He did think some on Reddit were getting close. Any speculation? I still think it will have something to do with the parallel universes.

[morgankobi]

Looking for a flash drive has never been so tense!

Hardy laugh at the return of Hazmat-Suit-Guy, casually enjoying his sandwich like always. 

[loki567]

I don't think this quite worked for me. I usually love "oners." When they work nothing is better at putting the audience into the mindset of the characters, especially during action scenes. I'm thinking Children of Men or True Detective. Here, I never really felt it was suspenseful or exciting enough. Felt like about half the episode was Elliot or Angela staring into space. Maybe understandable considering the production challenges but killed the mood for me. 

I wonder if the episode would have worked better that if they just did two or three long takes at a few minutes apiece, allowing them more time to buff up the excitement in those segments. 

[KaleyFirefly]

I hated Angela so much in this episode, especially when she gave Irving the name of the woman who saw her in the room she wasn't supposed to be in, knowing that Irving's "I'll take care of it" was going to mean that woman's death. And Angela didn't exactly check to make sure everyone was evacuated out of that building she was going to blow up, did she? If it weren't for Elliot calling to warn them, those people would all die. And we still have no idea why Angela is doing any of this.

I'm glad Darlene finally told Elliot she was working with the FBI, and that Angela is betraying him too. I wanted more Elliot and less Angela in this episode. I think Angela almost made a facial expression when she was in the elevator, but then looked totally blank again. She'd be great in a movie where she would play a robot or android.

The filming style was really cool in this episode. Not something you usually see in a TV show. It was interesting too when they sort of removed the ceiling and showed the view from above and you could see the room Angela was in and the street outside the building.

I guess whatever Angela was doing didn't need a lot of knowledge of code? How did she know what to do? In the first season (or was it the second?), Elliot and Darlene had to teach Angela over the phone how to do some technical thing with code because Angela didn't know how to do it. If anyone could do whatever she was doing in this episode, then why did need Elliot? And if they were going to need Elliot (or Mr. Robot) then maybe Angela shouldn't have gotten him fired.

It bugs me that sometimes they pronounce Tyrell's name as "Ty-rell" and other times they say "Ter-rell." It seems really odd for a show with such attention to detail and I wonder if it means anything.

[benteen]

Really exciting episode and very well done.  Very impressed with the continuous tracking shot.  Liked how claustrophobic the episode was despite being in a multiple-story building (and how characters like Irving were only heard)  But I was annoyed at the abrupt ending and the show continuing to keep secrets, like what was in Angela's bag.  I have no doubt we will be jerked around with this for at least another 4 episodes.  The dancing around questions has gone on for too long.

Angela has definitely crossed over that line now.

Edited November 9, 2017 by benteen

[kat165]

I found it puzzling that Angela was told to give Elliot the instructions yet isn't Elliot not on their side? What made them think that Elliot would do this (what Angela ended up doing) for them? Or are they not distinguising between Elliot and Mr. Robot?

[green]

Excellent episode.  Now I understand why no commercials during the episode.  It would have ruined it.  Everything was in totally real time mode and they needed to keep that intense flow going.  Loved Elliot was talking to us, his imaginary friend, the whole time.  Hated when they broke away to follow Angela.

So I agree I wanted more Elliot and less Angela.  (Or NO Angela).  And yes even if she "believed" Irving's assurance that the other building would be evacuated (a stupid, gullible thing to do if true); she has crossed over to the dark side just by giving him that woman's name who saw her.

Glad that Darlene did fess up to the FBI thing and that her seeing Mr Robot with Angela tripped Elliot's switch into remembering the scene.  It also confirmed Darlene wasn't playing him.  He is still upset with Darlene but hopefully, for my viewing pleasure, they will start working together. 

Did Darlene say her deal with the FBI included Elliot and even her two missing f society pals?  I thought I heard that anyway.  That's new info for us if true and shows Darlene in even a better light if she was trying to look out for the other three as well.

Laughed at the frustration Elliot felt when he was trying to warn people at the other building it was going to blow up and the airhead he was talking to thought UPS was the shipping firm.  (We use FedEx here).  It is exactly these tiny details that would happen in real life to absurdly cause thousands to die that is one of the beauties of this show.

Also the funny scene where he thinks by picking an older woman he can get her moved away from her computer and she hardcore's him back and you hear him think that maybe he chose the wrong person.  Ya think, hah.  At least she fingers a good target for him but why did that dufuss have to be a Bernie supporter.

Great great episode.  But it went by way too quickly.  Even more quickly if Angela's junk hadn't slowed the time down for me.  If it had been totally Elliot it would have been so good that it would have seemed to be over in a handful of minutes.

Did Angela do the download of that file herself because Irving (Whiterose) doesn't know "Elliot" isn't with them and only "Mr Robot" is?  "Elliot" was with them for awhile after all early on.  Or is it a case that Dark Army doesn't know Angela got Elliot fired so he couldn't get access to the 23rd floor?  In other words last week did Angela make the call herself to get Elliot fired without telling Whiterose/Irving/Dark Army of her move?

[Cardie]

6 hours ago, KaleyFirefly said:

And we still have no idea why Angela is doing any of this.

There are many hints that she is doing this because Whiterose has promised her that if she gets everything she wants, she will undo the deaths of Angela's mother and the others who died because of the Washington Township project. During that time she held Angela captive, she must have done some demonstration that convinced her going back in time or hopping into an alternate universe is possible.

[mrspidey]

This was really well done. Even though it was obvious where they cut scenes (whenever they zoomed in on sth. and then back out again, usually the elevator tv) the cut was never visually noticable. 

[Neurochick]

3 hours ago, Cardie said:

There are many hints that she is doing this because Whiterose has promised her that if she gets everything she wants, she will undo the deaths of Angela's mother and the others who died because of the Washington Township project. During that time she held Angela captive, she must have done some demonstration that convinced her going back in time or hopping into an alternate universe is possible.

If this show is supposed to be grounded in reality, then Angela is just batshit insane, unless this show turns into Fringe or Lost.

[shapeshifter]

9 hours ago, green said:

Also the funny scene where he thinks by picking an older woman he can get her moved away from her computer and she hardcore's him back and you hear him think that maybe he chose the wrong person

I really appreciated that. She is me in more ways than one.

 

8 hours ago, Cardie said:

There are many hints that she is doing this because Whiterose has promised her that if she gets everything she wants, she will undo the deaths of Angela's mother and the others who died because of the Washington Township project. During that time she held Angela captive, she must have done some demonstration that convinced her going back in time or hopping into an alternate universe is possible.

Or it's a metaphorical promise and just means Evil Corps will suffer and die as Angela's mother and Elliot's father did.

[deewayne]

18 hours ago, KaleyFirefly said:

I hated Angela so much in this episode, especially when she gave Irving the name of the woman who saw her in the room she wasn't supposed to be in, knowing that Irving's "I'll take care of it" was going to mean that woman's death. And Angela didn't exactly check to make sure everyone was evacuated out of that building she was going to blow up, did she? If it weren't for Elliot calling to warn them, those people would all die. And we still have no idea why Angela is doing any of this.

I'm glad Darlene finally told Elliot she was working with the FBI, and that Angela is betraying him too. I wanted more Elliot and less Angela in this episode. I think Angela almost made a facial expression when she was in the elevator, but then looked totally blank again. She'd be great in a movie where she would play a robot or android.

The filming style was really cool in this episode. Not something you usually see in a TV show. It was interesting too when they sort of removed the ceiling and showed the view from above and you could see the room Angela was in and the street outside the building.

I guess whatever Angela was doing didn't need a lot of knowledge of code? How did she know what to do? In the first season (or was it the second?), Elliot and Darlene had to teach Angela over the phone how to do some technical thing with code because Angela didn't know how to do it. If anyone could do whatever she was doing in this episode, then why did need Elliot? And if they were going to need Elliot (or Mr. Robot) then maybe Angela shouldn't have gotten him fired.

It bugs me that sometimes they pronounce Tyrell's name as "Ty-rell" and other times they say "Ter-rell." It seems really odd for a show with such attention to detail and I wonder if it means anything.

They dont know about his split personality (at least Irving doesnt). As far as they know Mr Robot was the one that was supposed to do the backup, not Elliot.

[KaleyFirefly]

16 hours ago, Cardie said:

There are many hints that she is doing this because Whiterose has promised her that if she gets everything she wants, she will undo the deaths of Angela's mother and the others who died because of the Washington Township project. During that time she held Angela captive, she must have done some demonstration that convinced her going back in time or hopping into an alternate universe is possible.

Yes, but I want them to spell that out a bit more, because now Angela is willing to let other people die to achieve whatever she's trying to do, and I hope we will find out this season what that is.

Also, what was in that bag that Sandwich Guy handed her? She looked at it like it was a poisoned sandwich.

[green]

18 hours ago, Neurochick said:

If this show is supposed to be grounded in reality, then Angela is just batshit insane, unless this show turns into Fringe or Lost.

Well theoretical physicists will tell you this is reality and the Cern collider is out to prove it to the science believers.  So will Hindu and Buddhist and Sikh and Taoist sages and seerers not that the arrogant leaders of the world would ever listen to them.  Which is probably for the best given the current leaders of the world at any given time and especially right now.

Unfortunately in this show's world one of these movers and shakers, Whiterose, is well aware of the possibilities.  And another, the Evil Corp CEO who is "leasing" the NJ place to Whiterose, is in on it too.  Though Whiterose seems to see him as a temporary needed annoyance at this point with emphasis on the temporary part.

Speaking of this show's world, how the hell does one country "annex" another?  There are strong economic spheres of influence in our world and in our world China has bought up tons of farming land in Africa -- not the Congo but in east African countries -- as well as a lot of mines.  But "politically" annex it is basically new-speak colonialism.  Why would the UN approve?  Even if Whiterose has the US government manipulated why would Russia approve?  Why would the Congo allow itself to be "annexed" without people rioting and the army fighting back?

Yes the Congo has approached failed state status at times but even in this show's world this to me is far less "real" than parallel universes.  Economic imperialism goes on but crossing the line to overt political colonialism for the whole world to take note of just doesn't seem a necessary step for any mega-country already having a puppet ruler in place.  And costly.  Chinese troops will have to be sent in to keep the peace etc.  A quagmire in the making.  You can get all of that mineral you want with economic pressure + old fashioned bribery instead.

At the very least call it a peace keeping mission requested by your Congolese puppet to help out in his civil war.  Even make the Congo a "protectorate".  But "annex" is such a weird and obnoxious term to use.

Edited November 10, 2017 by green

[Hanahope]

I lol'd at Angela's look of panic, "oh crap, did I fully follow the instructions or not?  I'm not sure" when asked by Irving if she in fact did do everything on the list.

Love the little details, like the hazmat suit guy eating a red wheelbarrow sandwich.  I wonder whats in the bag?  another sandwich?  something else?

What did Angela copy of the flashdrive?

So at least some of the rioters were 'hired' by the Dark Army and told to ignore the young woman with long blonde hair and big eyelashes.

Were the badges that different?  since the security guy seemed to figure out immediately that Angela didn't have the access the other badge provided and thus shouldn't have had it.  And same with the woman that saw Angela in the server room

How did Elliot manage to get back up to the 44th floor?

I loved how he tried to avoid the security sent to kick him out.  thinking the older woman would be easy to fool with computer-ese.  his walking into the conference room with another meeting going on.

Great camera work for the entire episode!

[OoogleEyes]

On 11/9/2017 at 5:40 AM, KaleyFirefly said:

 I think Angela almost made a facial expression when she was in the elevator, but then looked totally blank again. She'd be great in a movie where she would play a robot 

Maybe that's the twist! Angela is really a robot!

Edited November 10, 2017 by OoogleEyes

[possibilities]

The reason Elliot chose that particular woman, I thought, was because she was sniffing glue (or toner or some other fumes). I guess it could also have been a stereotype about "older women" -- and that actually makes a better narrative, so I like that theory, and the show subverting the assumption-- but I also thought it was clear that she was getting high when he sussed her out. Am I the only person who saw that? I'm starting to doubt my reality after watching this show!

[Milaxx]

On 11/9/2017 at 5:40 AM, KaleyFirefly said:

I hated Angela so much in this episode, especially when she gave Irving the name of the woman who saw her in the room she wasn't supposed to be in, knowing that Irving's "I'll take care of it" was going to mean that woman's death. And Angela didn't exactly check to make sure everyone was evacuated out of that building she was going to blow up, did she? If it weren't for Elliot calling to warn them, those people would all die. And we still have no idea why Angela is doing any of this.

I'm glad Darlene finally told Elliot she was working with the FBI, and that Angela is betraying him too. I wanted more Elliot and less Angela in this episode. I think Angela almost made a facial expression when she was in the elevator, but then looked totally blank again. She'd be great in a movie where she would play a robot or android.

The filming style was really cool in this episode. Not something you usually see in a TV show. It was interesting too when they sort of removed the ceiling and showed the view from above and you could see the room Angela was in and the street outside the building.

I guess whatever Angela was doing didn't need a lot of knowledge of code? How did she know what to do? In the first season (or was it the second?), Elliot and Darlene had to teach Angela over the phone how to do some technical thing with code because Angela didn't know how to do it. If anyone could do whatever she was doing in this episode, then why did need Elliot? And if they were going to need Elliot (or Mr. Robot) then maybe Angela shouldn't have gotten him fired.

It bugs me that sometimes they pronounce Tyrell's name as "Ty-rell" and other times they say "Ter-rell." It seems really odd for a show with such attention to detail and I wonder if it means anything.

Angela bought into everything WhiteRose told her because she wants so desperately to avenge the death of her mother. To be given the opportunity for it to not have happened at all? She'd pretty much sell her soul to the devil.

On 11/9/2017 at 10:30 AM, kat165 said:

I found it puzzling that Angela was told to give Elliot the instructions yet isn't Elliot not on their side? What made them think that Elliot would do this (what Angela ended up doing) for them? Or are they not distinguising between Elliot and Mr. Robot?

I believe they were hoping Mr. Robot would take over. It's Angela's job to mange him which is why she had him at her apartment that while weekend. Whenever Elliot takes over, she knocks him out. It appears to make Elliot weak and vulnerable enough for Mr Robot to take over.

On 11/9/2017 at 0:02 PM, Cardie said:

There are many hints that she is doing this because Whiterose has promised her that if she gets everything she wants, she will undo the deaths of Angela's mother and the others who died because of the Washington Township project. During that time she held Angela captive, she must have done some demonstration that convinced her going back in time or hopping into an alternate universe is possible.

Angela wants to believe to believe so badly she;s willing to go along with everything. I think she was honestly shook when she realize Irving was going to kill that woman and WR had no intention of evacuating that building

23 hours ago, deewayne said:

They dont know about his split personality (at least Irving doesnt). As far as they know Mr Robot was the one that was supposed to do the backup, not Elliot.

Irving does know kinda. When Angela bought him her apartment I think it was she was talking to Irving and told him he saw them just for a second. Irving just hasn't had enough exposure to Elliot to fully understand.

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

The reason Elliot chose that particular woman, I thought, was because she was sniffing glue (or toner or some other fumes). I guess it could also have been a stereotype about "older women" -- and that actually makes a better narrative, so I like that theory, and the show subverting the assumption-- but I also thought it was clear that she was getting high when he sussed her out. Am I the only person who saw that? I'm starting to doubt my reality after watching this show!

That's exactly what happened. I love that she was quick to jump up and narc out someone who was a loser. 

What a fantastic episode!

[Anela]

I liked it, and actually managed to pay attention this episode. I'm glad I waited until I was awake enough/nit as stressed out, to watch it. 

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, possibilities said:

she was sniffing glue (or toner or some other fumes)

White-out. I guess they included that to explain why she worked for Evil Corps.

[Milaxx]

Interesting what he German guy says at he beginning of the episode. "Aller anfang ist schwer. Anfang ist anfang" , "All beginning is difficult. The beginning is the beginning". I wonder are we supposed to believe he said that out loud or was that in Elliot's head as another way that his mind was telling him stage 2 was happening.

[possibilities]

Does Angela believe they can reverse all her evil behavior and reset everything to before the events that led to her mother's death? Is that why she's acting so horribly-- because she thinks it will all be erased? Or does she only think she is saving her mom, and everything else is immaterial?

Edited November 11, 2017 by possibilities

[Luckylondon]

On 11/10/2017 at 9:11 AM, green said:

Well theoretical physicists will tell you this is reality and the Cern collider is out to prove it to the science believers.  So will Hindu and Buddhist and Sikh and Taoist sages and seerers not that the arrogant leaders of the world would ever listen to them.  Which is probably for the best given the current leaders of the world at any given time and especially right now.

Unfortunately in this show's world one of these movers and shakers, Whiterose, is well aware of the possibilities.  And another, the Evil Corp CEO who is "leasing" the NJ place to Whiterose, is in on it too.  Though Whiterose seems to see him as a temporary needed annoyance at this point with emphasis on the temporary part.

Speaking of this show's world, how the hell does one country "annex" another?  There are strong economic spheres of influence in our world and in our world China has bought up tons of farming land in Africa -- not the Congo but in east African countries -- as well as a lot of mines.  But "politically" annex it is basically new-speak colonialism.  Why would the UN approve?  Even if Whiterose has the US government manipulated why would Russia approve?  Why would the Congo allow itself to be "annexed" without people rioting and the army fighting back?

Yes the Congo has approached failed state status at times but even in this show's world this to me is far less "real" than parallel universes.  Economic imperialism goes on but crossing the line to overt political colonialism for the whole world to take note of just doesn't seem a necessary step for any mega-country already having a puppet ruler in place.  And costly.  Chinese troops will have to be sent in to keep the peace etc.  A quagmire in the making.  You can get all of that mineral you want with economic pressure + old fashioned bribery instead.

At the very least call it a peace keeping mission requested by your Congolese puppet to help out in his civil war.  Even make the Congo a "protectorate".  But "annex" is such a weird and obnoxious term to use.

Yes. This is definitely about control of the Large Hadron Collider that is run by CERN, funded with gazillions of dollars by the G20 countries. They showed the LHC again this episode. So the allusion here is that time travel is possible through use of the LHC. It was more clear when Price gave the talk at the G20 summit is another nod to it as Price talks about a one world global economy in front of the sponsor posters saying G20 with a logo of a leaf looking like healthy new beginnings. I want to copy my post from the first episode because I posted so late that I don't think many saw it. I hope that is ok.

Here it is: 

Ok, I have been thinking how to put this and hoping someone else would bring it up, but I haven't seen it in the threads yet, so I will try.

The opening sequence for this episode this season, when it says Mr. Robot in red type, is on-screen over video inside the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) that is under the mountains in Switzerland and is called C.E.R.N.  The G20 countries contribute zillions of dollars to this project where they are attempting to "re-create the Big Bang" study dark matter or create black holes. It is all very strange and there is a statue of the Hindu Goddess of Destruction outside the above ground building. There are a lot of theories on what they say they are doing and what they really are attempting to do there. Stephen Hawking said it is very dangerous and can "destroy time." I don't even begin to know what that means but it sounds scary and it is even scarier because he then reversed his statement the next day and gave a very official PR type platitude statement about it which made me fear for his life and mine for even thinking about it. I'm joking. Kind of. They are said by some (I don't know who and what sources, there is tons of information on the internet and YouTube about it) to have accomplished time travel pretty easily; and this LHC, once used at full capacity, can create a hole in the space time continuum-- I don't know enough physics to understand it. I do know that they get it running to a certain percentage and then a magnet is not working and the schedule is delayed. There is some info from employees about having it scheduled to be at full power to work on certain dates that have power in mystical or occult practices and this is constantly alluded to with the show and the use of 5/9 (as an example), which, if you believe in theories about a Global Cabal making decisions and using puppets and manipulating geography, economic, social and political climate to create a one world global economy, then you can be interested in why some people say C.E.R.N. is being used to manipulate time for nefarious purposes. Or it could be used to punch a hole through our time dimension into another time dimension and have it serve as a portal or "stargate" to usher (human and other) beings between dimensions. None of this is new, this practice of attempting to accomplish this goes back to ancient civilizations including Mayans, Egyptians and others and is all based on advanced multi-dimensional math. I have NO IDEA how they could/would do it. Just wanted to tell you that the opening scene is definitely the LHC and they are talking about manipulating time. You can google CERN and Dance of Destruction and see some weird things. You don't have to believe they have achieved time travel (personally, I agree with Irving), you just have to know that they ARE showing us THE LHC and that is the means by which what the show is likely getting at with the time travel stuff and why different people (governments, global economic conglomerates like E-corp, or White Rose and The Dark Army) want this power to potentially manipulate time. They know it exists but not how to control it... yet... or they do know how to control it and this show is all an allegory with tons of foreshadowing. Out of chaos breeds economic opportunity. In real life, the LHC has not yet run at full power.

***ETA after this episode: At 25-50%, they have created dark matter and black holes within this sub atomic particle collider. China is also the country that is not easily going along with joining this effort towards a world economy in real life, as well; and considering they have about 1/7th of the population and are invested EVERYWHERE, there are whole seperate plans to deal with China. That is the only reason I can actually see the global economic Cabal agreeing to "give" China the Democratic Republic of Congo... simply because they can. There is a long history of giving away land in political negotiations. Yes, it seems incredulous and like Imperialism of centuries past; however, they fact that they can pass a UN resolution and give away a free country to be raped and pillaged for its resources AGAIN is exactly the kind of global greed and lack of concern for any person/people when achieving economic means that this show is about. 

 

Second post from Season 3 Premiere:

ON 10/12/2017 AT 8:17 AM,  AVALEIGHSAID: 

I think it's possible. My only question is, if Whiterose has built some sort of time machine then why does he behave as though he doesn't have a minute to spare when on some level he would have more time than most people? Maybe he's tapped into something but doesn't have full control over it? 

The part in the episode that really made me curious was the speech from the executive at the power plant.

"I love a great mystery. And I'm fascinated by the greatest unsolved mystery. Do we see reality as it is? If I close my eyes and imagine...if I close my eyes I can imagine that everything we experience, everything we see, think and do is unfolding simultaneously in a parallel universe. So, how many copies of ourselves exist? And might our mental states be conjoined for better or worse?"

This seems like an important quote and more and more I'm getting the impression that Elliot isn't the only character with an alter ego. 

Luckylondon wrote: Yes! When we see the engineers on this tour in the hallway and the leader makes this statement, White Rose and the other man walk past and in to a room. The plaque in the hall says ECorp Power Plant. The two men have a discussion in the room about why White Rose INSISTS that Elliot is a key piece to Stage 2 due to work tied to something his father started. Then as the shot opens, we see they are viewing the inside of the Large Hadron Collider which smashes subatomic particles and is underground in Switzerland run by C.E.R.N. It is said that scientists and engineers there are doing many things with dark matter and trying to create black holes, recreate the Big Bang, open portals to other space time dimensions, and, yes, time travel. This is more than a conspiracy theory. The LHC exists, you can google all about C.E.R.N. and the LHC and watch YouTube videos about it. This is not a subtle hint at all that time travel is possible. The show is showing WR at the facility (pretending it is run by ECorp), and it is what is the imposing image when MR. ROBOT episode title appears on screen. They are hinting they have time travel using this machine (see post above for more about the LHC). That is tremendous power to move through space and time and CAN affect EVERYTHING. Which is why Elliot is key over WR's assistant, as he may need to go back to interact with someone who knows him, like his father. I have no idea what WR wants to do with it specifically, that is only a guess relating to Elliot. However, it is obvious why ECorp would want this. Everyone would want this "God-like" power to move through time. 

This is what they are officially doing. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Hadron_Collider

There is a lot of information available about what else they could do with this creating dark holes for time travel and has been discussed in books and movies.

*end of previous posts*

In this episode when they talked about if WR can really do "it"? They again showed the LHC, so this is the how of the time travel. Depending on which astrophysicists you talk to or other people, this is either extremely possible or is already easily done and has been done. It makes my brain hurt and explode to think of the implications. I think it is cool that this show is including this in the geoeconomicpolitical battles because the LHC is real and is a factor. Especially for someone like WR who understands the extreme value of time and long term strategy and the "meta" level of the game of power.

ETA: I have no idea why this whole thing is bold and I don't know how to undo that. Apologies :/

Edited November 11, 2017 by Luckylondon

[green]

4 hours ago, Milaxx said:

Interesting what he German guy says at he beginning of the episode. "Aller anfang ist schwer. Anfang ist anfang" , "All beginning is difficult. The beginning is the beginning". I wonder are we supposed to believe he said that out loud or was that in Elliot's head as another way that his mind was telling him stage 2 was happening.

Wow Milaxx, you catch so much stuff on the show.  Why in German though?  Maybe that is a quote from someone in our own world?  Like maybe a scientist involved at CERN so we can tie this all together somehow?

Because Luckylondon, that post above I did read and glad you re-posted it in this episode for more to see.  Really excellent post and great food for thought.  They really are pushing CERN on this show for all to see.  Also liked your ETA about the rape of the Congo too.

[Milaxx]

I have no idea why the poem was in German or if the guy said that out loud. I do agree it sounds like WR is dong something with the CERN. I think she is obsessed with time because she feels that precision timing is needed to access it maybe. I'm not really certain.

[Neurochick]

Angela, though I don't like her, is interesting to me because her character shows just how easily a person can be talked into anything, a cult, a radical group, etc.  Whiterose appealed to Angela's feelings about her mother's death.  She believes Whiterose can change what happened in the past.  However, at the end of the episode, when Angela was on the elevator, she had a look on her face that said, "maybe what I'm doing isn't the right thing."

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, Neurochick said:

Angela, though I don't like her, is interesting to me because her character shows just how easily a person can be talked into anything, a cult, a radical group, etc.  Whiterose appealed to Angela's feelings about her mother's death.  She believes Whiterose can change what happened in the past.  However, at the end of the episode, when Angela was on the elevator, she had a look on her face that said, "maybe what I'm doing isn't the right thing."

Yes. And at last the actress was given the opportunity to do some emoting. To me, the years of blank stares finally paid off in contrast to the hidden crumpling of her face and stoicism.

[Bama]

On 11/10/2017 at 2:14 PM, Hanahope said:

Were the badges that different?  since the security guy seemed to figure out immediately that Angela didn't have the access the other badge provided and thus shouldn't have had it.  And same with the woman that saw Angela in the server room

I thought they realized Angela was up to something because the badge she was using had Elliott's picture on it.  Irving intended for Elliott to be the one to access the server room so he had the badge forged with Elliott's information/picture.

He picks up the badge and says "What the heck is this?"

Angela says "It belongs to me direct report.  He left it behind and I'm taking it back to him."

Security guard - "Interesting that your direct report has special access and you don't."

The fact that it was a special access badge with a man's picture on it threw up the red flag for him.

Here's a screenshot - it's 100% a man's picture.  It looks like Elliott but I'm not 100% on that.

 

[hnygrl]

Oh man what a show. What. A. Show. Remember guys, everything means something on this show. Everything. Mr. Esmail is the MASTER at subtlety. What really jarred me, and won't get out of my head, is the fact that Irving fully expected ELLIOT to be there WITH Angela and to need to do the HSM Dump. But dudes and dudettes? Elliot KNOWS HOW to do an HSM Dump, could do it in his sleep (ha ha). Then why were there step by step instructions on how to do an HSM Dump in the envelope? That's what was on the card. That's what Angela was following, step by step instructions. Tell me good people: WHY WOULD ELLIOT NEED step by step instructions when he could do it blindfolded? And why the emphasis on ELLIOT doing it when he already knew that she'd gotten him fired? That sticks with me. That and did anybody else notice that Irving told her to use the BLACK FLASH DRIVE IN THE ENVELOPE but she had to go looking for one? Did I miss a scene where it fell out of the envelop? Why'd she have to go searching for one and in most places, those things are encrypted. Are we 100% certain she did it right? Cause I'm not.

Esmail saying on the after show that certain Redditors were "close" to the truth made me think. It's not the parallel universe thing. It's just not. That's what EVERYONE, EVERYWHERE thinks so that's not it (never thought it was, too damned obvious to be true), I think it has something to do with Angela and Multiple personality disorder. Is Elliot a figment of Angela's imagination, or is Angela a figment of Elliot's imagination?

What's real? What's fake? Goodness what a show. I gotta watch it again...

[green]

If it turned out that Elliot was a figment of Angela's imagination or vice versa that is too much into playing the audience.  It would be worse than that old Dallas series where the brother that was killed is suddenly taking a shower and the whole season was a dream.  It would make Mr Robot a total bust if they did that kind of stuff and ruin it's legacy forever. 

The beginning episodes in Season 2 were more than a misstep for this show.  No more of playing the audience for chumps for no real reason.  The show has to mean something in the end and not somebody's mental problems.  It is enough we have Mr Robot running around loose.  That is enough mental lunacy going on and is interesting because that is it for the lunatic part. 

Even more stuff takes it from an extremely interesting twist to jump the shark mode.  If everyone is crazy there is no point in even watching the show because there are no rules, no ground of being and it becomes a silly cartoon at that point.

Edited November 13, 2017 by green

[Luckylondon]

On 11/11/2017 at 3:03 PM, green said:

Because Luckylondon, that post above I did read and glad you re-posted it in this episode for more to see.  Really excellent post and great food for thought.  They really are pushing CERN on this show for all to see.  Also liked your ETA about the rape of the Congo too.

Thanks @green! I did see that you saw the post in episode 1 and I am glad to hear that you don't mind me re-posting it here as it applies here too. I am loving reading your knowledgeable and insightful posts on the show and that of all the others posting as well! 

I am enjoying the writing, plot, and characters of this show at what seems like the perfect appropriate current zeitgeist for this show. It all seems crazy because Elliot clearly deals with psychosis and now with integrating his alter dissociated identities; yet, the content is actually quite relevant which is its own mindfuck in many ways. It makes the characters motivations for their behavior fascinating given the context in which they operate and it makes it a challenge in who to root for because they all have their reasons. At times, I want them all to succeed just to see what will happen, even when they are working against each other because I understand where each is coming from. To me, THAT inclination to empathasize and understand each character (when each is deeply flawed and pathological in their actions) is a tribute to the excellent writing of this show and makes watching it a super adrenaline filled rush. 

[Milaxx]

On 11/12/2017 at 11:10 PM, hnygrl said:

Oh man what a show. What. A. Show. Remember guys, everything means something on this show. Everything. Mr. Esmail is the MASTER at subtlety. What really jarred me, and won't get out of my head, is the fact that Irving fully expected ELLIOT to be there WITH Angela and to need to do the HSM Dump. But dudes and dudettes? Elliot KNOWS HOW to do an HSM Dump, could do it in his sleep (ha ha). Then why were there step by step instructions on how to do an HSM Dump in the envelope? That's what was on the card. That's what Angela was following, step by step instructions. Tell me good people: WHY WOULD ELLIOT NEED step by step instructions when he could do it blindfolded? And why the emphasis on ELLIOT doing it when he already knew that she'd gotten him fired? That sticks with me. That and did anybody else notice that Irving told her to use the BLACK FLASH DRIVE IN THE ENVELOPE but she had to go looking for one? Did I miss a scene where it fell out of the envelop? Why'd she have to go searching for one and in most places, those things are encrypted. Are we 100% certain she did it right? Cause I'm not.

Esmail saying on the after show that certain Redditors were "close" to the truth made me think. It's not the parallel universe thing. It's just not. That's what EVERYONE, EVERYWHERE thinks so that's not it (never thought it was, too damned obvious to be true), I think it has something to do with Angela and Multiple personality disorder. Is Elliot a figment of Angela's imagination, or is Angela a figment of Elliot's imagination?

What's real? What's fake? Goodness what a show. I gotta watch it again...

Some good points here but I don't think Angela is another personality. I also don't think it's a coincidence that the same actress who plays Angela in the episode 5, flashback also played the little girl who was Angela's doppelganger in episode 2x11.

[Ottis]

I ... Fast forwarded through a lot of this, the fake suspense stuff. I haven't cared about Phase II all season. The only interesting part is whatever Angela meant by seeing their parents again.

[Scaeva]

Did anyone else notice that toward the end when Angela had to meat the hazmat suit guy (forget if it was before or immediately after), behind her on the wall is the slogan "We're on your side," except one of the rioters had spray-painted an X over it?

Maybe I'm reading too much into things but it made me wonder if that was a foreshadowing of the Dark Army sending Irving to take care of Angela at some point, the same way he's likely going to take care of the woman who saw Angela. Angela did just perform something Elliot was supposed to do, and Whiterose had stated in an earlier episode that once Elliot was done with Stage 2 he could die for them. Did Angela just take Elliot's place as a loose end to be tied up?

[ganesh]

On 11/9/2017 at 6:55 PM, shapeshifter said:

Or it's a metaphorical promise and just means Evil Corps will suffer and die as Angela's mother and Elliot's father did.

I'm way behind, but this is what I always thought. It's the simplest answer for now. I'd rather it just be like that because it's a study in the human condition and what a thirst for revenge can make a person do. Someone in another thread for another episode mentioned that this is probably going to end like shakespeare with everyone dead, and this would fit into that.  

This is the type of episode you can only pull off once, and I think they all did a good job. 

[AudienceofOne]

On 12/11/2017 at 12:46 PM, Neurochick said:

Angela, though I don't like her, is interesting to me because her character shows just how easily a person can be talked into anything, a cult, a radical group, etc.  Whiterose appealed to Angela's feelings about her mother's death.  She believes Whiterose can change what happened in the past.  However, at the end of the episode, when Angela was on the elevator, she had a look on her face that said, "maybe what I'm doing isn't the right thing."

I think the most interesting part of these characters is that they're all so incredibly smart and yet they're all blinded by something that allows them to be manipulated. It reminds me of that quote about The Smartest Men in the Room. If you think you're the smartest person in the room, you're more likely to be make big, catastrophic mistakes because you think variables can be controlled that can't. So Angela may be one of the smartest people in the room but that also kind of makes her the dumbest. 

I particularly liked in this episode where Elliot was talking about everybody in Evil Corp being blank-faced automatons and asking if that's how they cope. And I'm thinking, at least they're smart enough to know that you can't "fix" the world. And the more you try the more you fuck it up. 

On 13/11/2017 at 3:10 PM, hnygrl said:

What really jarred me, and won't get out of my head, is the fact that Irving fully expected ELLIOT to be there WITH Angela and to need to do the HSM Dump. But dudes and dudettes? Elliot KNOWS HOW to do an HSM Dump, could do it in his sleep (ha ha). Then why were there step by step instructions on how to do an HSM Dump in the envelope? That's what was on the card. That's what Angela was following, step by step instructions. Tell me good people: WHY WOULD ELLIOT NEED step by step instructions when he could do it blindfolded? And why the emphasis on ELLIOT doing it when he already knew that she'd gotten him fired? That sticks with me.

I found that conversation surreal, downright bizarre. We already know Angela is being played to some extent but to what extent we don't know. That conversation suggests that's what is happening is completely outside of her knowledge.