S02.E05: Phil

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Sam is forced to look at some stuff.

[Adultosaurus]

I just hate that they're going to submarine Elliot for this arc. :(

[scrb]

Who was the guy she went to at the end?  Booty call?

And why do they call this show Better Things?  The older daughters are horrible, the mother may be scheming or she may be going senile -- she couldn't remember where she parked.

Sam must see herself as a martyr, because she's shouldering the burden for the entire family including her mother.

Is it going to become easier say 5-10 years from now when the older daughters are out of the house for at least college?  Is the middle one asking Elliot those rude questions suppose to be some precocious, strong-minded girl?

Chances are, even after they leave home and possibly after college, they're still going to depend on her financially, possibly move back home, continue to make bad personal choices.

And Sam's no prize herself either.  It's not an accident that the daughters are the way they are.  Still can't forget that she allowed her 16-year old to have a sexual relationship with that douchey 30-something Spanish guy for awhile before she intervened.  

[ichbin]

Shouldn't there be some funny in a comedy, even a comedy-drama?   I can find plenty of depressing things in real life and don't feel the need to see more acted out in a medium I look to for entertainment,  I think this was the last episode I'm going to bother with.  

[QQQQ]

Sam laughing at the middle daughter's dinner table questions? Yeah... Exhibit A as to why they don't treat you with respect. Run, Elliott, run.

 

And Sam, when you call your brother to tell him your mother is in the hospital, have the decency to put aside the passive aggressive bullshit long enough to tell him WHY mom is hospitalized instead of chastising him when he tries to find out the reason. What a fucking martyr.

 

You know how some people commit acts of self-sabotage, and you're like, "No! You deserve better! Your kids deserve better! You can turn your life around!" Well, with Sam this season I just don't care if she avoids pain, self-inflicted or otherwise. 

 

This show should be called Bitter Things.

Edited October 13, 2017 by QQQQ

[possibilities]

Was it this bad last season? I remember I used to like this show. I'm hanging on by a tiny thread.

I think Phil is supposed to be genuinely developing dementia or maybe she has a brain tumor or something. I don't think she peed on the floor in the bookstore in front of that kid in a previous episode to be manipulative.

[Ottis]

1 hour ago, QQQQ said:

Sam laughing at the middle daughter's dinner table questions? Yeah... Exhibit A as to why they don't treat you with respect. Run, Elliott, run.

 

And Sam, when you call your brother to tell him your mother is in the hospital, have the decency to put aside the passive aggressive bullshit long enough to tell him WHY mom is hospitalized instead of chastising him when he tries to find out the reason. What a fucking martyr.

 

You know how some people commit acts of self-sabotage, and you're like, "No! You deserve better! Your kids deserve better! You can turn your life around!" Well, with Sam this season I just don't care if she avoids pain, self-inflicted or otherwise. 

 

This show should be called Bitter Things.

Said very well. Especially the stuff with the brother. Acting like he is a dick because he wants to know what happened is ridiculous. She seemed to get it at the end.

i love how this show will depict the gray areas with life events, and the indecision real people face. But it keeps making Sam a jerk and that's hard to take. 

[Mumbles]

QuoteIs the middle one asking Elliot those rude questions suppose to be some precocious, strong-minded girl?

Last season there were indications that she has some sort of personality quirk, maybe Aspergers, certainly filter issues...she blurted out an embarrassing story about the older sister when Lenny Kravitz's character came over for dinner. She also said the N word out loudly in public (she was quoting the John Lennon song "Woman is the... of the World", but still), and she has some sort of OCD about counting steps.  So I do think she has some sort of issue.

[QQQQ]

Probably. Which isn't to say she can't be taught what's socially appropriate - to allow those remarks to go unchecked, and show approval by laughing, is really doing the teen a disservice. The real world isn't going to treat her daughter like she's a precocious snowflake. Or, more to the point, maybe Sam needs to be taught how to help her child with special needs. 

[TheRabbi]

I really liked this show last season. This season just sucks. Was Sam this much of an unlikable prick last year and I'm just growing weary of it? Just seems like it's dialed up to 11 this year. She is such a bitch. 

[pasdetrois]

Quote

Sam must see herself as a martyr, because she's shouldering the burden for the entire family including her mother.

Lots of women play this role in their families; it's very hard not to feel like a martyr. I know this personally after caring for a couple of family members, including with dementia. It's shockingly rare for other family members, friends, social services, etc. to provide the ongoing, meaningful support a caregiver needs. It really is. Sam's agent said something when they were in the bar that was one of the truest things I've ever heard. Something like: "You know how something is really hard, and you have to work really hard to fix it, but you do? But this [caretaking] is different - no matter how hard you work you can't fix it."

Phil's soliloquy on Sam during the card game was a master class in narcissism.

I get that Sam's persona is painted with black humor, and she's unique in TV land. I don't watch sitcoms or the big networks, so maybe there are other characters like her.  But I like that she's giving us something different. However it's a good thing the episodes are short, as I couldn't watch an hour of misery each week. And as a viewer I like having the relief of seeing her have some happy moments with the new boyfriend. I don't want non-stop Les Miserables. Nor too much of those dreadful children.

[Deanie87]

A Billy Bragg song!!  That was my favorite part of the episode. Unfortunately, they played it at the lowest volume possible, unlike nearly every other song in the show which usually overpowers everything.

[butterbody]

I stopped this one about 10 minutes in, and deleted it from the schedule. I sincerely hate the way I feel when I watch this. 

[Irlandesa]

5 hours ago, TheRabbi said:

I really liked this show last season. This season just sucks. Was Sam this much of an unlikable prick last year and I'm just growing weary of it? Just seems like it's dialed up to 11 this year. She is such a bitch. 

I liked this show last season.  I think it balanced some silly with some serious much better.  There was bitterness but the overall tone didn't feel bitter. 

On 10/13/2017 at 8:58 AM, scrb said:

Who was the guy she went to at the end?  Booty call?

I think he was the guy she was sleeping with in the first or second episode of the series. I forget any details about him but IMDb says he's simply "Sam's ex."

[jennylauren123]

What this show is missing is a character who is flawed, like all of us, but whom we still root for. Otherwise, why watch? Sam has to having something redeemable about her for us to want to watch her life. I'm having the same problem with other current shows. Give us someone to care about, or we won't care. It's pretty simple!

Edited October 15, 2017 by jennylauren123

[justmehere]

Celia Imrie was fantastic in portraying Phil's sense of losing control and the inner fear that created. After being in control of your life all your life, to then lose it, and then have to rely on others is devastating. Her cry for help said a lot too: disaster was the only way she could get Sam's attention. It's not because Sam is such a monster. She doesn't have a great relationship with her mother, and the transition into understanding that your parent needs care is also a difficult one.

The friend's speech in the bar was really on point -- and yet -- maybe her experience was years ago, but I would expect greater weariness from someone who provided that level of care for a significant period of time, even after the fact. 

As to the martyr mentality... caring for a parent creates a complex mix of emotions. The parent wants to stay home and feel as normal as possible, and it's your mother or father. It's not a simple thing to just put them somewhere. Phil saying thank you to Sam for caring for her was poignant and telling. At the same time, caring for a parent is in some ways harder than being a parent. Or maybe it's because you're older when it happens - or both. And yeah, it only gets harder as needs increase. Sam's not even starting from a good place.

As for her declining any help from her brother: that's complex too. Accept the financial help, absolutely. But when a sibling who has unresolved issues and lives far away, and hasn't participated in any meaningful way in a very long time, there's maybe some resentment there and a feeling of: just leave it. I'll do it. It is a little martyr-ish, but not without some background. Sam's brother wasn't bad - though a little snippy at first about the money. Sam actually was really understanding about him having unresolved issues and letting him off the hook. Give her time. She'll want help. But if he starts coming in and saying how things should be done, watch out. I'm curious to see if they'll continue to address the situation with Phil. I thought they handled the whole matter really well so far.

However, the two older girls at dinner - wow. Really need some attitude adjustments - but then, Sam isn't the nicest person herself. Even there, I think she's already incredibly tired, raising 3 kids alone. She's empty, burned out, and has no way to truly renew herself because it's nonstop -- not to mention, teenagers. Robin does help her feel better; I hope they continue together. He helps just with his presence and in caring about Sam. Very sorry to see Sam go back to her ex for a hookup. She'll probably self-sabotage -- it was hard enough for her to accept some genuine emotion in herself and from Robin.

--I thought Duke was cute, resting her head on Robin's shoulder.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 10/14/2017 at 0:31 AM, Mumbles said:

She also said the N word out loudly in public (she was quoting the John Lennon song "Woman is the... of the World", but still)

It was worse than that. She was describing a certain color of stockings. (I wasn't paying close attention and thought you were talking about Phil.)

On 10/14/2017 at 1:28 AM, QQQQ said:

Probably. Which isn't to say she can't be taught what's socially appropriate - to allow those remarks to go unchecked, and show approval by laughing, is really doing the teen a disservice. The real world isn't going to treat her daughter like she's a precocious snowflake. Or, more to the point, maybe Sam needs to be taught how to help her child with special needs. 

Mumbles was talking about Phil, not Frankie!  (Same correction as above.)

We all agree that Phil fell in the hole on purpose to get out of a bad situation and gain sympathy, correct?  That's an extreme form of self-absorption.

On 10/15/2017 at 1:26 PM, justmehere said:

Phil saying thank you to Sam for caring for her was poignant and telling.

Her telling Sam how proud she was of her, and thanking her for taking care of her, and "keeping her" seemed like an act to me.

 

I don't understand why Sam would tell her brother that she wouldn't need his financial help with her mother.  She can barely afford her two mortgages; where would she get the money to put her mother in a home?  And, with Phil's broken bones, there's no way that she would be a candidate for assisted living for a long while-she would need skilled nursing and rehab.  I assume Phil doesn't have any money, and there's been no mention of her qualifying for Medicaid. Selling the second house would take time, and Sam said she had "some equity," which would be spent very quickly.  The money part made no sense.

On 10/15/2017 at 1:26 PM, justmehere said:

I thought Duke was cute, resting her head on Robin's shoulder.

I think she's desperate for male affection.

I know that Sam needs a break, but I can't help but think that when she's drinking in a bar at night with her agent/friend is probably when she most needs to be at home with her girls.  I think that Max needs to know she is there, even if she declines to talk to her. It's called "potted Plant Parenting": https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/14/well/family/what-do-teenagers-want-potted-plant-parents.html

Edited October 17, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[ItCouldBeWorse]

3 hours ago, 17wheatthins said:

I think @Mumbles was talking about the middle daughter, Frankie, not Phil. The question they quoted was asking if Frankie was supposed to be precocious because of how she acted with Robin. 

QQQQ and you are correct.

[luna1122]

Yeah, I think Sam is just a terrible, self sabotaging bitch this season. I don't have a clue why Robin/Elliott sees anything in her, and her going for a random hookup with that guy who always seems to play a douchebag is just....boring.  She's just too old to be this effed up and it seem anything but pathetic.

I love the cast of this show; they're all so good, but pretty much every character, even the kids (sometimes especially the kids) is unlikable and abrasive. I'm still interested in watching, but sometimes it feels like hate watching.

[ruffy666]

I guess I'm in the minority but I still like this show a lot.  Yes, everyone is hugely flawed and yes, sometimes I wonder why Sam has to be so aggressively bitchy but it still feels like real people in a real family making real mistakes (and sharing nice moments, too... I got a little choked up just watching her hold Phil's hand in the hospital, even though the circumstances were a little bizarre.)  I really appreciate the pacing of this show, all the small moments have room to breathe and it's on the opposite end of the spectrum from most of the laff track garbage on network TV.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

But do we agree that Phil fell in the hole on purpose? If so, and if Phil's personality has always been the same, Sam's kids are being raised by an angel compared to how she and her brother were likely raised.

Edited October 18, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[SoMuchTV]

Had to laugh that Sam, Phil, and the daughters all have “men’s” names, but her brother is Marion. (Yes I know Marian is usually the female version but still...)

And I’ve been trying to figure out from the beginning whether her mom has dementia or is just a narcissist. Currently I’m thinking it’s both.