GH History Lessons: Because History is Always Repeating Itself

[Rancide]

I was on a 6-year stint on the barge when baby Jake died.  (A stint prompted in significant part by my disgust with Guza's spree of senseless, violent deaths of legacy characters)  Can someone explain to me why that needed to happen?  If it was suddenly determined that Liz had too many kids, wouldn't Cameron be the more obvious candidate for retroactive abortion?

[SlovakPrincess]

That clip of Luke and Felicia is exactly the reason I have intense secondhand embarrassment while watching the Nurses Ball. Yikes, that is beyond awful.

 

Definitely.  The only time the Nurse's Ball served a purpose was that time Jason carried Robin off the stage, during the first one.   And at the time, I didn't even like Jason/Robin.   But in terms of story and dramatic impact, I have to admit it was well done and memorable.   

 

Otherwise, it just seems to be an excuse for the cast to show that they can sing.   And for Lucy to do stuff - and I can't stand Lucy.  But that clip in particular is super-embarrassing and makes no sense.  Why is Felicia wearing that terrible outfit?  While Luke is singing "Old Time Rock n Roll"?  The reaction of the actress playing Gia is hysterical ... sure, she's clapping along, but you can see in her eyes that her soul is dying ....

 

I'm also reminded that I loved Felicia in the '80s but came to loathe her by the end of the '90s and '00s.  But that might be because the Maxie-gets-BJ's-heart story was the last decent story Felicia ever had.   

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I was on a 6-year stint on the barge when baby Jake died.  (A stint prompted in significant part by my disgust with Guza's spree of senseless, violent deaths of legacy characters)  Can someone explain to me why that needed to happen?  If it was suddenly determined that Liz had too many kids, wouldn't Cameron be the more obvious candidate for retroactive abortion?

 

Depending on what you believe, Jake either died so that Sam could get her miracle baby or because it took Liz ten hours to read a paternity test.

[SlovakPrincess]

I wasn't watching at the time, either, but my theory is that Jake died because Geary is always clamoring for a "dark" story for Luke.  Wasn't that also around the time the show almost canned the Liz actress, and weren't they going to write her off as leaving town as a crazy person over Jake's death?   

[ulkis]

I was on a 6-year stint on the barge when baby Jake died.  (A stint prompted in significant part by my disgust with Guza's spree of senseless, violent deaths of legacy characters)  Can someone explain to me why that needed to happen?  If it was suddenly determined that Liz had too many kids, wouldn't Cameron be the more obvious candidate for retroactive abortion?

 

imo, it happened because they wanted Jason and Sam to have a baby, but they couldn't have Jason raising that child and not have him raise his child with Liz. But then they also couldn't have him tell Lucky and Liz he wanted to claim his rights as a father after all, four years later after the kid was born, because he would look like a giant ass.

 

Plus, bonus dramatic opportunities, of course.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Definitely. The only time the Nurse's Ball served a purpose was that time Jason carried Robin off the stage, during the first one. And at the time, I didn't even like Jason/Robin. But in terms of story and dramatic impact, I have to admit it was well done and memorable.

Jason carrying Robin off the stage wasn't the first Nurses Ball. I believe it was the third. The first one, I think, was in '94 when Robin and Stone played Romeo and Juliet--the death scene.

In '95, Stone revealed he had AIDS to the entire audience and I think that was the year Miguel sang while we saw the real people and the quilt video? So beautiful and always brings me to tears.

[SlovakPrincess]

Oh, yeah!   Now I do remember Robin and Stone playing Romeo and Juliet ....

[Tiger]

I wasn't watching at the time, either, but my theory is that Jake died because Geary is always clamoring for a "dark" story for Luke. Wasn't that also around the time the show almost canned the Liz actress, and weren't they going to write her off as leaving town as a crazy person over Jake's death?

Becky actually was fired, but her fans rallied and she was re-hired. Allegedly Liz was going to go crazy and be left in Shadybrooke. And allegedly Guza came to Tony and asked if Luke could be the one to kill Jake. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Tony vehemently denied it was his idea.

Regardless, that story (and really everything that had been going on for a while with The Balkan) sent the ratings plunging to new lows and it cost both Guza and Frons their jobs.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Tiger

[ulkis]

I think BH ultimately gave credit to Jill Phelps for saving her job, as much as it would be nice to think that fans managed to save her job.

 

I don't think Guza was fired because of the Jake story. AMC and OLTL were cancelled and GH was going to be cancelled along with them, but Frons saved it, but Guza had to go because he was sucking up a ton of money, since he was being paid as head writer and a producer. The Jake story probably didn't help though.

[dubbel zout]

Otherwise, [the NB] just seems to be an excuse for the cast to show that they can sing.

 

Or not, depending on the castmember.

 

 

Can someone explain to me why that needed to happen?

 

So that Jason could add to his Box o' Pain.

Edited March 22, 2015 by dubbel zout

[cleo]

Okay I'm a brand new viewer and have a couple questions.

Was Luke and Laura's wedding Elizabeth Taylor's first ep?

And when did Stavros appear and kidnap Laura?

I'm following the Cassadine stories at the moment, I started watching bc I like NLG. There's a million eps online, but hard to figure out what happened when.

Thanks for any info!

[tessaray]

I was on a 6-year stint on the barge when baby Jake died.  (A stint prompted in significant part by my disgust with Guza's spree of senseless, violent deaths of legacy characters)  Can someone explain to me why that needed to happen?  If it was suddenly determined that Liz had too many kids, wouldn't Cameron be the more obvious candidate for retroactive abortion?

 

Didn't Carly have to beg for a kidney for Joss, too?  So they could throw shades of B.J. into the mix? 

[SlovakPrincess]

Liz Taylor had a few episodes before the Luke / Laura wedding.  She showed up as Mikkos Cassadine's widow a few weeks after the Ice Princess story wound up (at the end of which Mikkos was frozen to death in his own weather machine).  Helena met with Robert once, and then Luke once.   Then she threw a party for Port Charles and gave millions to the hospital  -- basically, she pretended to want to make up for what Mikkos had done ... but she was lurking around and cursing Luke and Laura behind the scenes.  Her last episode might actually have been the Luke / Laura wedding.

 

Laura disappears in January of 1982.  She reappears at the very end of 1983, at which point I think it must have been revealed that Stavros had kidnapped her the whole time.   I assume Stavros follows her back to Port Charles in 1983 and reveals himself then.  

[LegalParrot81]

The wedding wasn't Liz's first episode, but it wasn't her last either.  Helena mandated that she wouldn't give the hospital the money unless she met with Luke face to face.  He had to interrupt their honeymoon to go back and meet with Helena.  

 

 

I assume Stavros follows her back to Port Charles in 1983 and reveals himself then.

 

He did.  During that storyline, they filled in the blanks surrounding Laura's disappearance.  The actor who portrayed Stavros back then, John Martinuzzi, was wonderfully scary.  So completely different than the cartoon character Guza and RC named Stavros.

 

And now for some giggles.......Elizabeth Taylor outtakes.

 

Edited March 22, 2015 by LegalParrot81

[cleo]

Thanks both of you. I've seen a few of the Liz Taylor clips but I couldn't figure out what was missing or the order.

 

 

The actor who portrayed Stavros back then, John Martinuzzi, was wonderfully scary.

 

 

 

Laura disappears in January of 1982.  She reappears at the very end of 1983, at which point I think it must have been revealed that Stavros had kidnapped her the whole time.

 

Yes I saw a bit with Martinuzzi from 1983 and he was great, so I wanted to see the kidnap storyline but I gather it was backstory once Genie Francis returned rather than something that was filmed. 

 

I don't know what it says about me that I'm more interested in the bad guys. : )

[SlovakPrincess]

I could watch the Liz Taylor outtakes over and over and over again.  She had a great laugh.

 

Random trivia that I hope somebody can confirm for me .... I assume in the 80s and 90s all floors of the hospital were the same set, and they just changed the number on the elevator door?  

[LegalParrot81]

 

rather than something that was filmed.

 

They did film some  good "flashback" scenes.  Like when Laura is taken to Stavros the first time and she sees photos of Helena and Mikkos and puts things together.  So it wasn't all just dialogue explaining her time in captivity.

[Tiger]

I could watch the Liz Taylor outtakes over and over and over again.  She had a great laugh.

 

Random trivia that I hope somebody can confirm for me .... I assume in the 80s and 90s all floors of the hospital were the same set, and they just changed the number on the elevator door?

Yes, before the re-design during the toxic balls or monkey virus or some other Guza sweeps stunt in the 2006-2010 years, the elevator doors had numbers on them to signal what floor the scene was on.

[LeftPhalange]

Depending on what you believe, Jake either died so that Sam could get her miracle baby or because it took Liz ten hours to read a paternity test.

 

Liz struggles to read sometimes. I'm not sure how she managed to become a nurse.

[Jazzy24]

I was on a 6-year stint on the barge when baby Jake died. (A stint prompted in significant part by my disgust with Guza's spree of senseless, violent deaths of legacy characters) Can someone explain to me why that needed to happen? If it was suddenly determined that Liz had too many kids, wouldn't Cameron be the more obvious candidate for retroactive abortion?

They did it to make me happy lol!!

[Turtle]

Okay I'm a brand new viewer and have a couple questions.

Was Luke and Laura's wedding Elizabeth Taylor's first ep?

And when did Stavros appear and kidnap Laura?

I'm following the Cassadine stories at the moment, I started watching bc I like NLG. There's a million eps online, but hard to figure out what happened when.

Thanks for any info!

 

 

Liz Taylor had a few episodes before the Luke / Laura wedding.  She showed up as Mikkos Cassadine's widow a few weeks after the Ice Princess story wound up (at the end of which Mikkos was frozen to death in his own weather machine).  Helena met with Robert once, and then Luke once.   Then she threw a party for Port Charles and gave millions to the hospital  -- basically, she pretended to want to make up for what Mikkos had done ... but she was lurking around and cursing Luke and Laura behind the scenes.  Her last episode might actually have been the Luke / Laura wedding.

 

Laura disappears in January of 1982.  She reappears at the very end of 1983, at which point I think it must have been revealed that Stavros had kidnapped her the whole time.   I assume Stavros follows her back to Port Charles in 1983 and reveals himself then.  

 

 

First, cleo, you're really starting to watch from way back!  Are you watching current episodes too, or working to catch up from the 80s?  Either way , WELCOME!

 

Second, SlovakPrincess and others, how in the world do you remember all these details from so long ago?  I'm super impressed.  As I mentioned the other day, I can't even keep track of who is related to whom on the current cast!  

 

ETA: I also always figured the dead baby Jake story was because TG wanted a dark storyline for Luke, and having Jake die was a good choice because of the Jason / Sam baby storyline.  But I really think TG was the force behind them coming up with that kind of story.  And lord, the aftermath of his "intervention" and denial was only about 10% better than the split personality shit we've been subjected to for the last indeterminable amount of time (that feels like 73 years). 

Edited March 23, 2015 by Turtle

[SlovakPrincess]

Don't be too impressed with me, Turtle, LOL.  I'm actually "watching" the early 80s stuff now online, to see what happened before I started watching as a kid in the late 80s.  So my recall of Liz Taylor's episodes is from a few months ago, not decades.  ;)

[Turtle]

This board has now deleted two of my posts even though I've been doing everything the same way I always do.  So annoying.

 

Slovak, that's good to hear - I was feeling very inferior!  I used to watch the last 15 minutes because when we got home from school, mom wouldn't do anything until GH was over.  So I know some stuff about mid to late 80s, but not everything.  I didn't start watching regularly until around '93, so I missed a lot of it, and never cared enough about Luke to re-watch or read about it.  I do remember Anna and Robin coming on screen, Lucky making his way back to Port Charles on his own, a little of the Ice Princes stuff, Sean Donnelly - but I have no idea when that stuff happened in relation to each other.  

[TeeVee329]

Have we seen Felicia and/or Mac with baby Georgie?  I know Felicia was baby sitting her last week and was at the hospital, but we never saw her with her granddaughter, right?

[Box305]

Have we seen Felicia and/or Mac with baby Georgie?  I know Felicia was baby sitting her last week and was at the hospital, but we never saw her with her granddaughter, right?

 

Not sure how the block taping would effect everything but KW was working on another show for a month or so. That probably has a lot to do with her not... or who am I kidding? Mac and Felicia are soon going to be replaced by horns a la Audrey Hardy 2007/2008.

[UYI]

 

 

 

He did.  During that storyline, they filled in the blanks surrounding Laura's disappearance.  The actor who portrayed Stavros back then, John Martinuzzi, was wonderfully scary.  So completely different than the cartoon character Guza and RC named Stavros.

 

 

Not to defend Guza or anything, but he didn't bring back Stavros at all. That was Megan McTavish.

Edited March 23, 2015 by UYI

[UYI]

I think BH ultimately gave credit to Jill Phelps for saving her job, as much as it would be nice to think that fans managed to save her job.

 

 

 

It's still a pretty big deal that she was able to get rehired, though. Very rarely on a soap these days--especially GH--do you see someone where there's enough backlash to bring an actor back onto a show after they've been fired. And in the case of Liz, it was a character who isn't directly related to the mob. Anyone else un mob-related would have been toast. 

[bannana]

Why did Genie Francis leave the show back then (82/3)?  Her choice or was she written out?

[ulkis]

Her choice.

[LegalParrot81]

 

Not to defend Guza or anything, but he didn't bring back Stavros at all. That was Megan McTavish.

 

You're right.  I think I try to block out the McTavish time.  LOL   

[cleo]

 

First, cleo, you're really starting to watch from way back!  Are you watching current episodes too, or working to catch up from the 80s?  Either way , WELCOME!

 

Thanks! I started just watching some of the NLG clips I could find, mostly her and Sonny. Then I got curious about the Cassadines so I've gone back but I won't watch everything, I'm kind of picking and choosing. I'd like to see the Ice Princess story, but for now I'm starting around the time Luke killed Mikkos and jumping around, 82 and 83, then jumping to the 90s. Any good stories I should look out for? I don't really like Luke and Laura, find them boring. I'm neutral on the Quartermaines, don't know anything about them really. I like family drama though. 

 

The show now 2015- I haven't been watching current, but I kind of figure the quality isn't as good? Not sure I can do the old ones and the new ones simultaneously unless I quit my job. I will probably check it out sooner or later though.

 

Weird to come into it late I suppose, I was never a big soap watcher but have started the last couple yrs watching Santa Barbara and now GH.

Edited March 23, 2015 by cleo

[ulkis]

Thanks! I started just watching some of the NLG clips I could find, mostly her and Sonny. Then I got curious about the Cassadines so I've gone back but I won't watch everything, I'm kind of picking and choosing. I'd like to see the Ice Princess story, but for now I'm starting around the time Luke killed Mikkos and jumping around, 82 and 83, then jumping to the 90s. Any good stories I should look out for? I don't really like Luke and Laura, find them boring. I'm neutral on the Quartermaines, don't know anything about them really. I like family drama though. 

 

The show now 2015- I haven't been watching current, but I kind of figure the quality isn't as good? Not sure I can do the old ones and the new ones simultaneously unless I quit my job. I will probably check it out sooner or later though.

 

Weird to come into it late I suppose, I was never a big soap watcher but have started the last couple yrs watching Santa Barbara and now GH.

 

their story starting in 1996, which is the story in which Alexis debuted. The Cassadines became different in 1996, in that they were actual long-term characters instead of foils for an adventure story. I mean, they were foils still in a sense, but more complicated ones.

 

 

if L&L bore you you might just want to skip ahead to Stefan's first scenes

 

 

It's crazy how they used to dress Genie so dumpy, she was only 34 at the time for goodness' sake. You'd never catch them dressing even Liz/Becky Herbst that way, and this show treats her like she is the ultimate hausefrau.

[Harmony233]

Why did Genie Francis leave the show back then (82/3)?  Her choice or was she written out?

Her choice apperantely she overhesrd GM telling someone that TG was the star or some drivel like that.

[ulkis]

Her choice apperantely she overhesrd GM telling someone that TG was the star or some drivel like that.

 

No. That was something entirely different. She was having trouble with drugs and Monty told her to get it together because Geary was the real star of the show. Whether she quit because of specifically that, who knows, but there were probably other factors, one of which she was young and wanted to try other things.

[Ambrosefolly]

I think when Laura woke up the final time in 2008, the best I think they dressed her was in those jeans and a sweater, the wardrobe was that bad in the 90s. 

[LegalParrot81]

 

Whether she quit because of specifically that, who knows,

 

In an interview she did several years ago, that, along with her realization that she had to kick her drug dependency did play a factor in her decision not to renew her contract. 

[dubbel zout]

ABCD (and in fairness, lots of other corporations at the time) didn't give her much to any support when her snorting got out of hand. The only way to get it under control was to quit and do it herself.

 

The soaps in the '70s and '80s must have been pretty wild sets. NLG talks about everyone grabbing quickies in dressing rooms. 

[UYI]

Genie was also basically steamrolled to return to GH in 1993. She was ultimately happy to come back, but she was specifically fired from AMC/Loving, where she was playing a role she absolutely loved (whether or not the audience was as crazy about Ceara as she was is kind of a moot point here), because ABC Daytime felt she had more value being on GH if she was going to remain at the network. I remember her saying in her Lifetime Intimate Portrait episode that after she said yes to returning to GH, she literally cried the entire night afterwards. She did wind up feeling like she came home, but the way she was brought back colored the situation a bit for her. 

Edited March 23, 2015 by UYI

[dubbel zout]

ABCD really screwed her six ways from Sunday. 

[ulkis]

I suppose, but despite the 576, 000 times we heard the word 'embryo', Britt was still the one who gave birth to Ben. Whatever Maxie did or didn't do, Ben isn't entirely Dante and Lulu's, the court's order be damned.

 

 

And even if I took the view that Britt had a right to Rocco, neither is he totally Britt's. She wouldn't have been able to give birth to him if Lulu and Dante hadn't supplied the DNA. And nor did they need Britt to give birth to him actually, since there are a bunch of other women who would have done it if Dante and Lulu had gotten a chance to ask them. But they never got the chance, because Obrecht and Britt stole their genetic material and never told them. And Britt didn't let them have shared custody any more than they let her have it afterwards. The only reason she started bringing round Rocco to Dante and Lulu's is because Liz exposed he was the father.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

 The only reason [britt] started bringing round Rocco to Dante and Lulu's is because Liz exposed he was the father.

 

Which was the pot calling up the kettle to tell it that it's black if I ever saw it.

 

Less snarkily, I kind of think any baby would have been sufficient for Lulu. Her own, Britt's,, Maxie's, anyone's, just as long as she could get a baby she'd have been satisfied. Gollum!Lulu is my least favorite Lulu of them all.

[TeeVee329]

Gollum!Lulu is my least favorite Lulu of them all.

 

Word.  I know it was all about anvil-ing that Ben was really Lulu's and not Britt's, but it made me uncomfortable how Lulu would snatch Ben out of Britt or NIkolas' hands any time she got close to the baby.

[ulkis]

Which was the pot calling up the kettle to tell it that it's black if I ever saw it.

 

Less snarkily, I kind of think any baby would have been sufficient for Lulu. Her own, Britt's,, Maxie's, anyone's, just as long as she could get a baby she'd have been satisfied. Gollum!Lulu is my least favorite Lulu of them all.

 

Maybe, but it's a theory that can never really be tested out. She sure didn't seem too thrilled at the idea of being forcibly impregnated by Stavros though, even though she was eager to already start getting implanted with her other embryo at the time, so there are some limits she'll draw.

[SlovakPrincess]

Laura had some good moments in the 90s when she first came back. Like giving Luke hell over Lucky accidentally getting shot, and this one cool scene where she carried 12 yr old injured Lucky on her back down the hospital stairs to get away from whoever was after them.

But eventually they did just park her in mom/wife mode while Luke tried to be "cool" hanging out with stupid Sonny. Luke's friendship with Sonny soured me on him ages ago. He actually HAD a cool friend in the 80s (hello, Scorpio). Palling around with Sonny after that is just pathetic.

[UYI]

If anything should have blown up Sonny and Luke's friendship permanently, it should have been Lucky's "death" in the fire at Jason's garage.

 

"I mean, what's a dead son between friends?" (to Sonny, at 6:23)

 

"When you count up your business losses, don't forget to put my son on the list." (to Jason, at 8:00)

 

 

In fact, was their friendship ever really the same after this?

[ulkis]

no, not really. I was going to say, before your last line, the friendship never really got back track on that after that.

[bannana]

Thanks, all, for the answers and insights re GF departure in the early 80s.

[Chairperson Meow]

I have vague memories of Original ClinkBoom! What happened right after Lily blew up? I remember hearing the actress came back and played another character to mess with Sonny. Was that a Sonny off his meds thing or some weird lookalike thing?

[Tiger]

In 2003-4ish, Lorenzo hired an actress, gave her plastic surgery to look like Lily, and gaslighted Sonny.

[dubbel zout]

The bipolar story for Sonny wasn't until 2006.