GH History Lessons: Because History is Always Repeating Itself

[jsbt]

That whole Valentine's Day thing from 1991 cracked me up during the GH anniversary marathon on SoapNet in '13. The quietly hilarious scene with Anna and Frisco the morning after is priceless, especially when she tells him she doesn't want to discuss it again and Frisco can barely keep it together. It's a shame there was such great stuff in that episode while a lot of the rest it was setting up stuff under Monty II that, while bold, would apparently prove to be wildly unpopular and show-mangling.

[Tiger]

Kari Wuhrer (Reese) and Lesli Kay (Lois 2.0) both did some soft core, Skinimax type

Wasn't Kari Wuhrer the one who slapped or got slapped by Nancy?

[Asp Burger]

I hadn't heard that, Tiger; anyone know? She (Wuhrer) did say in an interview that Nancy Lee Grahn and Rick Hearst were two of her favorites to work with, for what that's worth. It's possible that that was before things deteriorated.  

[dubbel zout]

I miss intentional humor on GH. The show has been grim and cheerless for way too long.

[MissE]

The Truth about what happened to Zander is the story I have been waiting for for over a decade. I was incredibly shocked, I mean SHOCKED how Guza could have Courtney and Jason just let Zander just take let him the fall and there was absolutely no reveal about a basically uncoordinated conspiracy to let Zander basically die for Journey. To rub some more salt in the wounds, not only did it leave Maxie (at the time played by Robyn Richards) thinking that she was protecting someone that did in fact shot a cop, not to mention set a hotel on fire, fucking Courtney got $10 million for helping a rich old woman and not helping her dog out of the building that she indirectly help set on fire. I wouldn't be surprised if that old bat was the mother of the dumbass governor that pardon Sonny for murder for not saving his useless daughter.

 

I think it would be a great storyline for SORASed!Cam if he started getting curious about his own paternal family to finally expose Carly, Jason and Courtney for the assholes they were. Maybe Jakeson could be horrified at Jason Morgan's behavior and Cam can call out Carly for being a shitty friend to Zander (Zander attempted to teach Carly to drive during the Jason absence) when she told Courtney to keep quiet about her role in shooting the cop. And I would love an explosive fight between him and Liz about how she would do anything for Jason, but treated his own bio dad so poorly even though the argument could be made that Jason is a far worse person than Zander and how she chased away any sort of father for him and his brothers, forcing Cam to take up the slack.

 

People I have dreams about this, serious dreams!

If Cam were to ever yell at Liz about Zander, I really hope she gets to tell him that his father didn't give a shit about him, and wanted nothing to do with him, and even tried to trade him for Emily at one point, or at least gave up his rights to Cam for Emily. Zander was not some victim of Liz. 

 

Liz has also not driven away all of Cam's father figures. Lucky chose to leave all on his own because he doesn't give a shit about Cam or his brothers, and Ric fucked up, and screwed up his relationship with Liz all on his own too, so if Cam were to ever be mad that those two aren't in his life, then he needs to be pissed at Lucky and Ric, not Liz. Liz is the only parent in his life that has always been there for him.

Edited February 6, 2016 by MissE

[Lobsel Vith]

If Cam were to ever yell at Liz about Zander, I really hope she gets to tell him that his father didn't give a shit about him, and wanted nothing to do with him, and even tried to trade him for Emily at one point, or at least gave up his rights to Cam for Emily. Zander was not some victim of Liz.

Yeah, can't forget to tell Cameron how Guza threw Zander under the bus for Nikolas and Emily's "true love" romance that cured cancer.

[MissE]

No he's not. It's the fucking hacks who call themselves writers, going back to the Guza era, that have chosen to make Lucky a deadbeat father, because JJ had the utter audacity to leave after a year of a dreckfilled and craptastic year of having Lucky do nothing but cry, instead of giving Lucky and Liz the reunion he thought he was coming back for...and because the following regimes didn't give a fuck about his character to recast him, and that that douche, Carlivati knew JJ wasn't going to stay last year-that he only returned because Geary was leaving. This is all on the writers and show runners, as far as I'm concerned.  Just as the horrific writing and trashing of Liz as a character isn't Liz's fault, but the people who are writing this show and running this show.

Just like Frisco was turned into a deadbeat dad because the show didn't feel like recasting the character; for awhile, Robert was turned into a deadbeat father, because only that midgety moobster can be the bestest father evah! And I know that's not true. Mac is a great father. Lucky was a great father. Hell, even Robin was turned into a deadbeat mother because Kimberly wouldn't return to the show full-time.

It would be different if Lucky couldn't have been bothered to be a father to his children when he was on the show. But that's not the case. And Jason was never any kind of father to Jake when he was played by Steve Burton, either.  And the only reason he has been all of a sudden Jake's father, as if he's always been his dad is because of plot point contrivance and because, once again, the show refuses to recast Lucky, or write dialogue that has all boys visiting with Lucky, as Joss is with Jax.

Like I will never hate Robin, I will never hate Lucky.

 

Lucky is a deadbeat dad. He doesn't give a shit about those kids. He left them without even considering what his abandonment would do to them. He doesn't pay child support, he actually never has. Skyping once a week, doesn't make someone a father. He's a selfish asshole, and should be called out as such. In fact, Liz would have every right to never let him around those boys again after everything he's done, but this show will never let Liz call him out for what he is. Even Jake being found alive wasn't enough to make him stick around.

 

I will never understand why Liz is called a horrible mother over and over again, and she's held responsible for her actions, but Lucky is seen as this amazing father, even though he abandoned those kids multiple times. The behind the scenes politics doesn't change that onscreen, Lucky is a shitty father. 

 

If the other characters on this show are held responsible for what they do, they Lucky should be too. Otherwise, we should never blame the characters for anything, or hate the characters for anything, and just blame it on the shitty writing. 

[Tiger]

If Cam were to ever yell at Liz about Zander, I really hope she gets to tell him that his father didn't give a shit about him, and wanted nothing to do with him, and even tried to trade him for Emily at one point, or at least gave up his rights to Cam for Emily. Zander was not some victim of Liz.

I do remember LiRic badgering Zander to give his rights. I don't remember him ever attempting to trade his rights for Emily.

Zander was never even given the chance to be a father because he was albeit unintentionally framed for the cop shooting by SWSNBN and killed as a consequence.

At least Chad Brennon has had a nice career doing voiceover work.

[dubbel zout]

Lucky is seen as this amazing father

 

I don't think anyone has said that. It's just that actor availability made the writers choose the worst possible option for Lucky not being around. It's not like Sonny, who is actually on-screen. He blathers on about how his kids are the most important thing to him yet refuses to make any life changes in order to genuinely keep them safe. Just about every terrible thing that has happened to his children is directly linked to him being in the mob.

[MissE]

Ric "only" held Carly hostage in the panic room. And Liz does know Ric tried to smother her with a pillow. He's one of the few characters whose bad behavior is all out there, and he freely admits what he's done.

 

Liz doesn't know that Ric tried to kill her, unless she found out offscreen. She's never mentioned it though.

 

 

I don't think anyone has said that. It's just that actor availability made the writers choose the worst possible option for Lucky not being around. It's not like Sonny, who is actually on-screen. He blathers on about how his kids are the most important thing to him yet refuses to make any life changes in order to genuinely keep them safe. Just about every terrible thing that has happened to his children is directly linked to him being in the mob.

 

Sonny being a bad father doesn't absolve Lucky being one too. I get that JJ isn't available, and they refuse to recast Lucky, but onscreen Lucky isn't involved with those boys. Before the retcon of them skyping every week, Lucky hadn't even spoken to them in years. Liz certainly isn't perfect as a mother, but she's actually been the only stable parent in those boys lives. She doesn't leave them when it gets too hard, or when she just doesn't feel like being their mom anymore. Its why I have no problem with Liz not mentioning Lucky every five seconds when it comes to those boys. She should be pissed at him for leaving them. She shouldn't want anything to do with him.

[Ambrosefolly]

If Cam were to ever yell at Liz about Zander, I really hope she gets to tell him that his father didn't give a shit about him, and wanted nothing to do with him, and even tried to trade him for Emily at one point, or at least gave up his rights to Cam for Emily. Zander was not some victim of Liz. 

 

Liz has also not driven away all of Cam's father figures. Lucky chose to leave all on his own because he doesn't give a shit about Cam or his brothers, and Ric fucked up, and screwed up his relationship with Liz all on his own too, so if Cam were to ever be mad that those two aren't in his life, then he needs to be pissed at Lucky and Ric, not Liz. Liz is the only parent in his life that has always been there for him.

Believe or not I like Liz, but having an affair behind Lucky's back with his brother isn't exactly a recipe for family cohesion. I will concede that with the information that Liz had on hand, in her mind she was protecting her first born. With Zander, as soon as she told that Cam was his, Ric (who she was married to at the time) was right there, demanding that Zander sign over his rights to the child. While Zander pretty much went off the rails after Nik and Emily literally dicked him over, when Em first found out Liz was pregnant, she told that the baby might the thing he need to get his life straighten out.  While giving up a baby to get back at NUm wasn't great (considering how not worth it Emily ended up being), Zander did show he did care, like when he went to talk to RR's Maxie with her experiences with both of her dads and when he cried at the grave of his father that he wanted to name the baby after him. Zander died months before Cam was born, like with Maxie and baby Georige, he was pretty much an abstract concept at the time, maybe his mind would have changed if met little Cam.

 

I actually don't see Cam outright launching an attack on Liz, only if she starts defending Jason. When he calms down, I think it could lead to a deeper talk between the two of them. Nor do I think that Liz would be so cruel to tell Cam that Zander didn't care one way or another about him, when she knows that wasn't entirely true (and I believe it wasn't) and it is a messed up thing to tell to your son.

 

I just want Courtney, Jason and Carly (Sonny had no idea about Courtney framing Zander) to be exposed and  for Maxie to know that Zander didn't lie to her. It was a crime and not one of those debatable ones. Is it wrong that I want Cam to hate Jason and it be perfectly justified?

Edited February 6, 2016 by Ambrosefolly

[TeeVee329]

I would be interested in Cameron (after being SORASed, of course) exploring his paternal roots to Zander, maybe feeling some teenage-ry insecurities that his brothers are the sons of his mom's two great loves (Jason and Lucky) and he's not.

[Francie]

No, it was on GH--Nancy has said she visited the set in the 80's when she was dating Sam Behrens (Jake Meyer, Bobbie's one time husband). She said that the SB set was like a church social compared to GH.

Okay, this is more SB-related than GH-related, but it does involve GH's resident wackadoo (no, not Michelle Stafford, the other wackadoo) Nancy Lee Grahn.

 

So from what I've heard, Santa Barbara was filmed at some brand spanking new and fancy studio in LA. There were several -- I think 6? -- deluxe dressing rooms. Like studio apartment-size big. They went to the big stars, Martinez, Walker, Lane Davies, Robin Wright, and I'm forgetting who else (maybe Jed Allen?). In any event, NLG was NOT among them. Now, she wasn't the biggest star right at the start, so fine. But, then Robin Wright left after her Princess Bride fame. 

 

Nancy thought she deserved Robin's dressing room. But they instead gave it to GH alum, Robin Mattson.  Nancy was so upset that she started to hang her wardrobe in the janitor's room as some sort of public protest. Eventually enough people left, or they got sick of Nancy's craziness, that Nancy finally got her special dressing room.

[Tiger]

I would be interested in Cameron (after being SORASed, of course) exploring his paternal roots to Zander, maybe feeling some teenage-ry insecurities that his brothers are the sons of his mom's two great loves (Jason and Lucky) and he's not.

It would be even more interesting if Zander had truly been Alexis' son and thus a Cassadine.

Does anyone know why they changed that story? Because IIRC, McTavish started it but Pruza continued it for a while.

And then what happened behind the scenes with Lane Davies? Because, again IIRC, they made a big deal of him coming on, he was featured prominently, and then suddenly they killed Cameron off.

[WendyCR72]

It would be even more interesting if Zander had truly been Alexis' son and thus a Cassadine.

Does anyone know why they changed that story? Because IIRC, McTavish started it but Pruza continued it for a while.

And then what happened behind the scenes with Lane Davies? Because, again IIRC, they made a big deal of him coming on, he was featured prominently, and then suddenly they killed Cameron off.

 

 

Guza made Cam, Sr. so unlikable, and this comes from someone who loved Mason/Julia on Santa Barbara. Not to say Cam didn't start well enough. I thought his first meeting with Alexis still had a spark to it, but after the whole mess with the hot-potato Baby K and the story of his dead son Pete and Zander, Guza/Pratt totally annihilated the guy.

 

And his story with Alexis (during Dobson) would disappear for days on end. No wonder Cam was offed in the PC Hotel fire.

 

I think it would have been awesome had Zander - not Sam - been Alexis' child. And maybe then Alexis could have been still supportive during the Zem/Nem mess. Cam could have been Zander's adoptive dad, and story could have been mined there.

 

Frankly, I think Zander losing everything was to make Nik/Emily rootable, not to mention his Holiness of Hitmen, Jason, had returned. So Zander got the short straw. Which sucked.

[UYI]

Okay, this is more SB-related than GH-related, but it does involve GH's resident wackadoo (no, not Michelle Stafford, the other wackadoo) Nancy Lee Grahn.

 

So from what I've heard, Santa Barbara was filmed at some brand spanking new and fancy studio in LA. There were several -- I think 6? -- deluxe dressing rooms. Like studio apartment-size big. They went to the big stars, Martinez, Walker, Lane Davies, Robin Wright, and I'm forgetting who else (maybe Jed Allen?). In any event, NLG was NOT among them. Now, she wasn't the biggest star right at the start, so fine. But, then Robin Wright left after her Princess Bride fame. 

 

Nancy thought she deserved Robin's dressing room. But they instead gave it to GH alum, Robin Mattson.  Nancy was so upset that she started to hang her wardrobe in the janitor's room as some sort of public protest. Eventually enough people left, or they got sick of Nancy's craziness, that Nancy finally got her special dressing room.

 

Okay, see, I didn't know about that. Of course, she could have just meant that compared to GH, SB was drug free. Maybe not quite DRAMA free, but drug free. 

Edited February 6, 2016 by UYI

[WendyCR72]

Okay, this is more SB-related than GH-related, but it does involve GH's resident wackadoo (no, not Michelle Stafford, the other wackadoo) Nancy Lee Grahn.

 

So from what I've heard, Santa Barbara was filmed at some brand spanking new and fancy studio in LA. There were several -- I think 6? -- deluxe dressing rooms. Like studio apartment-size big. They went to the big stars, Martinez, Walker, Lane Davies, Robin Wright, and I'm forgetting who else (maybe Jed Allen?). In any event, NLG was NOT among them. Now, she wasn't the biggest star right at the start, so fine. But, then Robin Wright left after her Princess Bride fame. 

 

Nancy thought she deserved Robin's dressing room. But they instead gave it to GH alum, Robin Mattson.  Nancy was so upset that she started to hang her wardrobe in the janitor's room as some sort of public protest. Eventually enough people left, or they got sick of Nancy's craziness, that Nancy finally got her special dressing room.

 

I had heard the story of the clothes on the soda vending machine, but IIRC, that was not NLG, but Louise Sorel, who played Julia's sister, Augusta. (And an original cast member.)  I think (not 100% sure here!) SOD even mentioned her being involved at some point. (I do recall when this was first reported as a blind item, SOD actually had a photo of said machine with the clothes on it!)

 

I liked Ms. Sorel, too, but have also heard she could be outspoken, etc., too. And if she was an "original" who did not get such a dressing room, I could see this, as well.

[TeeVee329]

I had actually totally forgotten that Cameron's name came from Zander's father, that seems to indicate Liz was fine acknowledging that paternal tie.

 

I just tried looking for it on YouTube and was unsuccessful, but I remember a nice scene when Liz came back with Cam (I think RH took leave, right, and the character went to stay with Sarah?) and Ric met him.

 

Did Ems have a problem with her bestie hooking up with Zander?

[WendyCR72]

Did Ems have a problem with her bestie hooking up with Zander?

 

She didn't seem to give a rat's ass and was all about Nik's dick by then. I prefer to think of NL's Emily and AT's Emily as two separate people.

[MissE]

Believe or not I like Liz, but having an affair behind Lucky's back with his brother isn't exactly a recipe for family cohesion. I will concede that with the information that Liz had on hand, in her mind she was protecting her first born. With Zander, as soon as she told that Cam was his, Ric (who she was married to at the time) was right there, demanding that Zander sign over his rights to the child. While Zander pretty much went off the rails after Nik and Emily literally dicked him over, when Em first found out Liz was pregnant, she told that the baby might the thing he need to get his life straighten out.  While giving up a baby to get back at NUm wasn't great (considering how not worth it Emily ended up being), Zander did show he did care, like when he went to talk to RR's Maxie with her experiences with both of her dads and when he cried at the grave of his father that he wanted to name the baby after him. Zander died months before Cam was born, like with Maxie and baby Georige, he was pretty much an abstract concept at the time, maybe his mind would have changed if met little Cam.

 

Liz having an affair with Nik, doesn't absolve Lucky from the fact that he abandoned his children, nor is it a good excuse. Lucky and Liz don't have to be together to coparent. The only person responsible for Lucky leaving, is Lucky.

[HeatLifer]

The most aggravating thing about Lucky is the show doesn't even acknowledge him in terms of the kids. So they've chosen to have him leave his loved ones because of "darkness" but Liz doesn't care and it's not affecting the kids at all on-screen. So what's the point? Wouldn't it just be easier to have him co-parent off-screen (the kids are barely on, anyway) and leave it at that?

It's the same issue I had with Robin's second imprisonment. If none of the characters care, what's the point of that specific story choice?

If certain characters are going to be off-screen for the foreseeable future there's no reason to give them complicated and convuluted exits that no one is even going to mention.

Edited February 6, 2016 by HeatLifer

[Ambrosefolly]

Liz having an affair with Nik, doesn't absolve Lucky from the fact that he abandoned his children, nor is it a good excuse. Lucky and Liz don't have to be together to coparent. The only person responsible for Lucky leaving, is Lucky.

No it doesn't, and considering that JJ took the job until he could land a pilot, it probably would have ended the same way. God forbid that Lucky lives in NYC or Washington DC and has the kids visit him. Fuck you Guza, JFP, FV and RC. However, maybe Cam can have it built up in his head that if Liz had stayed faithful in LnL2's last go a round, they would be living all together in the house that Lucky wanted to build.

[Francie]

Okay, see, I didn't know about that. Of course, she could have just meant that compared to GH, SB was drug free. Maybe not quite DRAMA free, but drug free. 

Oh, I wasn't trying to contradict what you were saying -- I agree, from what I know.  GH was crazy. Kin had women coming and going. Lots of cast member hook ups. And the amount of cocaine use is now well-known.

 

NLG talking about the dressing room antics, though, reminded me of the story. I can't confirm whether it was her or Louise Sorel, though. I had heard it was NLG. But it's all rumor and second, third, fourth hand.

[MissE]

No it doesn't, and considering that JJ took the job until he could land a pilot, it probably would have ended the same way. God forbid that Lucky lives in NYC or Washington DC and has the kids visit him. Fuck you Guza, JFP, FV and RC. However, maybe Cam can have it built up in his head that if Liz had stayed faithful in LnL2's last go a round, they would be living all together in the house that Lucky wanted to build.

It would bother me so much if they had Cam be mad at the one parent who has always been there for him, instead of the father who abandoned him. That would be such a slap in the face to Liz.

 

 

Back to the GH history, I keep seeing Sean and Tiffany's wedding clip posted here. Why are they so mad at each other?

[SlovakPrincess]

Back to the GH history, I keep seeing Sean and Tiffany's wedding clip posted here. Why are they so mad at each other?

Tiffany Hill was actually a stage name she used as an actress - she found out the day of her wedding she would have to use her legal name in the ceremony and marriage license. Also, her tacky bumpkin family showed up (Tiff had cultivated a glamorous reputation) and Tiff was embarrassed by the whole thing and nearly refused to go through with the wedding.

Sean got fed up and practically dragged her down the aisle ... at which point he (and everyone) learned her real name was ... Elsie Mae Krumholtz. Sean could not stop laughing, which is why she stomps on his foot in the middle of the ceremony.

I think there was also some back story of Tiff wanting a proposal out of confirmed bachelor Sean ... so that when he finally agrees to marriage and SHE is the one who nearly calls it off the day of - well, he gets super frustrated.

Sharon Wyatt deserves a special award just for keeping a straight face while the entire cast laughed their butts off at Tiffany's real name.

Edited February 7, 2016 by SlovakPrincess

[MissE]

Tiffany Hill was actually a stage name she used as an actress - she found out the day of her wedding she would have to use her legal name in the ceremony and marriage license. Also, her tacky bumpkin family showed up (Tiff had cultivated a glamorous reputation) and Tiff was embarrassed by the whole thing and nearly refused to go through with the wedding.

Sean got fed up and practically dragged her down the aisle ... at which point he (and everyone) learned her real name was ... Elsie Mae Krumholtz. Sean could not stop laughing, which is why she stomps on his foot in the middle of the ceremony.

I think there was also some back story of Tiff wanting a proposal out of confirmed bachelor Sean ... so that when he finally agrees to marriage and SHE is the one who nearly calls it off the day of - well, he gets super frustrated.

Sharon Wyatt deserves a special award just for keeping a straight face while the entire cast laughed their butts off at Tiffany's real name.

Thank you! I'm still catching up on GH during that time, but I loved what I saw of Tiffany and Sean, so that clip was amazing. I loved that they kept saying her real name over and over again. You could tell FH was really crying from laughing so much.

 

I really loved Sean in general. His affair with Monica is one of my favorite stories that I've watched along with the Asian Quarter story. Robin, Anna and Robert together are just magic. 

 

I will say though, and this might be unpopular, but I have hated what I've seen of Duke. He's just so whiny. Maybe he got better as the years went on though.

[KerleyQ]

It would bother me so much if they had Cam be mad at the one parent who has always been there for him, instead of the father who abandoned him. That would be such a slap in the face to Liz.

 

It would suck, but it would be realistic.  I've seen it happen more than once that kids who are hurt that one parent isn't around (for whatever reasons) take it out on the parent who has always been around.  I remember, specifically, one of my cousins.  Her father was a deadbeat - never bothered to spend any time with his kids.  She took it out on her mother, and would blame her for "keeping him away" and talk about how he really wanted to be with her, but her mother was just such a bitch, it could never happen.  None of that was remotely true, but I think kids sometimes find it easier to take all that anger, sadness, and disappointment out on the parent they know won't abandon them.  They're hurting and don't know what to do with that hurt, and the absent parent isn't around for them to take it out on.  

[SlovakPrincess]

Thank you! I'm still catching up on GH during that time, but I loved what I saw of Tiffany and Sean, so that clip was amazing. I loved that they kept saying her real name over and over again. You could tell FH was really crying from laughing so much.

I really loved Sean in general. His affair with Monica is one of my favorite stories that I've watched along with the Asian Quarter story. Robin, Anna and Robert together are just magic.

I will say though, and this might be unpopular, but I have hated what I've seen of Duke. He's just so whiny. Maybe he got better as the years went on though.

The Sean / Monica stuff I cannot wait to see!! (still haven't gotten to that story in all my online searching for / watching of 80s GH stories).

I also love, love, love the scenes (Aztec Treasure story) where Sean and Robert fight on the tram, and Sean thinks he's killed Robert, and then he's so horrified and remorseful that he actually cries about it.

Duke's genuine love for Anna and Robin was his saving grace. And actor Ian Buchanan's looks and charisma. Because otherwise, yeah, he was whiny and dumb.

[MissE]

The Sean / Monica stuff I cannot wait to see!! (still haven't gotten to that story in all my online searching for / watching of 80s GH stories).

I also love, love, love the scenes (Aztec Treasure story) where Sean and Robert fight on the tram, and Sean thinks he's killed Robert, and then he's so horrified and remorseful that he actually cries about it.

Duke's genuine love for Anna and Robin was his saving grace. And actor Ian Buchanan's looks and charisma. Because otherwise, yeah, he was whiny and dumb.

Here's the first clip of the Sean/Monica story: 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDQAUWcXZOg&list=PL53311D969AE97547

 

 

I haven't watched a lot of the Aztec story yet. My favorites are the Asian Quarter story, and the Grant Putnam story. I haven't finished that one yet, but that was where my dislike for Duke really started. He was more worried about beating Robert then he was about saving Anna. Although I do agree that his relationship with Robin was wonderful.

 

I have a hard time watching all these stories sometimes though because it makes me so sad at how wonderful the writing for this show used to be. The romances were wonderful, the writing showed how genuine the love between families were, the friendships were so believable and real. I miss that so much.

Edited February 7, 2016 by MissE

[SlovakPrincess]

Oh I know! They just put way more care into the show and the emotions of the characters back then.

Yesterday I watched the flashback scenes of Robert / Anna's first mission together, wedding in Italy, and their breakup when he realizes she's a double agent. The whole thing is just flashbacks that are edited in to match whatever memory or emotion the character was having in a scene ... but it was like a little movie in and of itself.

And at the same time, you had Sean hanging around, scheming and being bad ... but there was a whole subtext where he was conflicted because he genuinely liked Robert and missed the good old WSB days with him.

Meanwhile, poor Robert is cringing and having a sad flashback while Sean wants to chat about the past. And poor Holly is wondering what's up with Robert. Just a lot of detail and different relationships happening at the same time.

Edited February 7, 2016 by SlovakPrincess

[jsbt]

Yeah, there is some good cutting work when they jump to the flashbacks. I've seen bits and pieces of this over the years but I will have to sit down with it.

[Francie]

They did an amazing job with that, interweaving the flashback storyline with the current one. 

 

There were about 20 flashbacks in total, airing on M-W-F over three weeks. Whoever was in charge of the breakdowns did an amazing job.

 

The location shoots were among my favorite. Santa Barbara passed well for a French hotel, the French and Italian Riviera, and an Italian village. The courtyard where Robert and Anna were first married is one of my favorite all-time locations.

 

Here's the portion of a playlist with the 1985 scenes and the flashbacks:

 

https://youtu.be/rZUb9IijIS0?list=PLCD089F8EF5C3A333

[Asp Burger]

I would never want to find the episode on YouTube and watch it in whole, but early during the Laura Wright Carly period, wasn't there an episode in which the men and women separately were having a night out at the bars and talking about how wonderful Carly was...and this was literally the whole hour? The men fantasized about her, the women wanted to be her? Among the women who wanted to be her were her archenemies Robin and Liz. Among the men fantasizing about her, her cousin Lucky.

 

This is a distant, bad memory, so please tell me I am overstating it. 

[SlovakPrincess]

It was slightly less awful than that ... the men were all fantasizing about Carly, but the women were fantasizing about Patrick.

I don't remember the women's group saying they wanted to be Carly, but there probably was some line about how Carly just went for what she wanted, said in a begrudgingly admiring way.

[Jazzy24]

I would never want to find the episode on YouTube and watch it in whole, but early during the Laura Wright Carly period, wasn't there an episode in which the men and women separately were having a night out at the bars and talking about how wonderful Carly was...and this was literally the whole hour? The men fantasized about her, the women wanted to be her? Among the women who wanted to be her were her archenemies Robin and Liz. Among the men fantasizing about her, her cousin Lucky.

This is a distant, bad memory, so please tell me I am overstating it.

I remember that once Liz was suppose to have said that she wished she was like Carly(ewww) I don't remember when that was because I haven't watch a Liz scene in years but I remember some fans laughing about that scene.

And I'm glad Sam never said no gross crap like that.

[cmahorror]

Ask and ye shall receive...

 

This was right before they went to the Markham Islands with Lulu and Dillon:

 

 

 

The boys night out with Carly came later, after Patrick and Robin's first break up:

 

[HeatLifer]

!!BABY SCRUBS!! <3 Lawd, they were everything. And Drunk!Robin! was freaking hilarious. "There will be no banging tonight." "Whaaaaaaaat?"

[cmahorror]

Have to post the follow up scene:

 

 

 

After Robin machetes the snake.

Patrick: How did you do that?

Robin: I have no idea.

[HeatLifer]

The OG Adventure Girl! BYE. And that attitude she gives him, my goodness. She didn't let him get away with anything. THEYSOPERFECT.

Ok, I can't fall down this hole.

[UYI]

Ambrosefolly mentioned in the main thread that no one else was really set up as the patriarch of GH after Steve's death. Alan could have been easily slotted in there, especially since he became COS after Steve died. He had done many more questionable things in his past than Steve did, but I think it would have been acceptable.

 

And if they had bothered to remember him, Lee Baldwin would have been a good successor, too. 

[Ambrosefolly]

There is also Mac, and there was Tony Jones before the show decided to go balls deep and make him the bad guy to Carly and Jason. I would argue that Lily Q became that person until she died on the show. Alan could make a decent enough bedrock, at least he and Monica were good Chief of Staffs for General Hospital .

 

The problem is that the show, especially in the Guza, confused being "troubled" with being a "sociopath". Lee was troubled because he had a raging alcohol addiction, but he dealt with it even if he relapsed every once in a while, yet JFP/Guza, and FV think  the pesky need to kill your enemies or shoot your son in the chest are the same type of lapses in judgement .

Edited February 9, 2016 by Ambrosefolly

[SlovakPrincess]

Robert was Mr. Law and Order once he became Commissioner and until he left in the early 90s. He was the moral center of the non-hospital set, although he still got to be fun and unconventional at times. Sean and then Mac filled that slot later, although poor Mac never got to be interesting again.

After Steve Hardy's death, Alan and Monica really should have moved into the head of hospital slot. But their story mostly became about their dysfunctional kids, and by that point Show was just so nauseatingly in love with Sonny and his mob code.

I will never accept Dr. O as head of hospital or really anything. Never.

I miss when people behaved like functional adults on this show. You'd never see a Lee Baldwin on this show now ...

[Cattitude]

I've never felt guilt from Sonny over shooting AJ. He said he would do it again. He's sorry he got caught, and that he lost Michael for a too-brief time.

 

I can never be too upset at Sonny over killing AJ. And though I know little of GH history this is one history I have taken the time to go back and watch. AJ and Sonny hated each other. They were enemies and many times AJ did things to Sonny too, it is just that EVERYONE piled on AJ. The main reason I can't get too up in arms about Sonny killing AJ is AJ OWN FAMILY was totally horrible to him. I dislike the Qs more for their treatment of AJ than I can ever get upset at Sonny over his hate of AJ. AJ hated Sonny too. AJ hated Sonny for robing him of Michael when AJ's own alcoholism that many times was driven by his own family's treatment of him leading to low self esteem that caused AJ to lose Michael just as much as Sonny did. Sonny hated AJ for being Michael's father and causing Carly to fall down the stairs losing their baby. Carly falling was an accident but I can see where Sonny would blame AJ.

 

Sonny is a mob boss. He sometimes kills people he doesn't like. It was wrong and terrible but it isn't Sonny's fault 1/2 the town disliked AJ. It was his own actions and his own family that drove AJ to be disliked by the town as much as it is any kind of Sonny worship the town has.

 

I can buy Sonny has no guilt over shoot AJ b/c he hated him and I'm okay with that as in character for Sonny.(not that I'm okay in general with someone murdering someone.)

That is my opinion and two cents on why Sonny killed AJ so he his evil just never makes an impact on me. I still like Sonny.

Edited February 9, 2016 by Cattitude

[TeeVee329]

The main reason I can't get too up in arms about Sonny killing AJ is AJ OWN FAMILY was totally horrible to him..

 

...I don't understand this rationale.  I agree that the Quatermaines' treatment of AJ over the years wasn't the greatest.  But I don't understand how you can equate that with Sonny shooting him in the chest, leaving him to bleed out, snarling at his bedside for him to die.

Edited February 9, 2016 by TeeVee329

[IWantCandy71]

Well, I disagree about a lot of that. I don't think it matters one whit who liked or hated AJ, or even what AJ had done to Sonny in the past. Or even, who had done the most to whom. Nor does it matter how the Qs treated AJ.

What matters is, Sonny murdered him in cold blood. I was simply commenting in the other thread that I believe Sonny had some remorse over it at first. Remorse that he then seemed to retract as he said he'd do it again.

In comparing Sonny to Ava,  they are pretty much one and the same. I was simply pointing out in the other thread, that I have seen Sonny have some remorse over his actions from time to time(brief as it is), but thus far, haven't been convinced Ava has any.

Edited February 9, 2016 by IWantCandy71

[TeeVee329]

I do think it makes sense Sonny doesn't feel guilty about it.  Murdering people is part of his livelihood, he's not gonna lose sleep over murdering someone he hated.

[Cattitude]

...I don't understand this rationale.  I agree that the Quatermaines' treatment of AJ over the years wasn't the greatest.  But I don't understand what that has to do with or why that would temper Sonny shooting him in the chest, leaving him to bleed out, snarling at his bedside for him to die.

It doesn't but I understand AJ and Sonny's mutual dislike as something bad on BOTH sides and AJ happened to lose in the end. I just find it weird that Sonny killing AJ is toted over and over as why Sonny is so evil and find the Qs treatment of their own child/family way more offensive. Sonny killed AJ but he is a bad person, a mob boss and I expect something like this of him. I don't expect a messed up alcoholic's own family to so completely berating and horrible to him. I never hear anyone complain about how AJ's own family's treatment of him lead him to be the town pariah. No it's ALL Sonny's fault.

Edited February 9, 2016 by Cattitude

[TeeVee329]

Sonny killed AJ but he is a bad person, a mob boss and I expect something like this of him.

 

But in the show's view, Sonny isn't a bad person.  He's a good man, a doting father, a wonderful husband, etc.  That's the disconnect.

[IWantCandy71]

It doesn't but I understand AJ and Sonny's mutual dislike as something bad on BOTH sides and AJ happened to lose in the end. I just find it weird that Sonny killing AJ is toted over and over as why Sonny is so evil and find the Qs treatment of their own child/family way more offensive. Sonny killed AJ but he is a bad person, a mob boss and I expect something like this of him. I don't expect a messed up alcoholic's own family to so completely berating and horrible to him. I never hear anyone complain about how AJ's own family's treatment of him lead him to be the town pariah. No it's ALL Sonny's fault.

 

 

Unpopular opinion possibly, but a lot of AJ being the town pariah was AJ's fault himself. I have never seen anyone say it's all Sonny's fault. Sonny didn't force AJ to drink, or to make any of his bad decisions. Sonny was awful to AJ, AJ was awful to Sonny in return. But that's just it. AJ was awful IN RETURN. Sonny isn't responsible for all of AJ's choices, but he is responsible for his own, like the meathook. Like taking Carly's word and just deciding AJ was unfit because he wanted it that way.

As far as the Qs-yes they were awful to AJ. But they've been awful to each other over the years, and none of the rest of them were ever as self pitying as AJ. And I loved AJ, but he did bring some of it on himself. Stealing millions of dollars from his family and then running away was probably the final straw for some of them. Yes, the Qs backstab each other all the time, and secretly, Edward might have been a little proud of AJ's thievery. Underneath it all though, the Qs do love each other in their own dysfunctional way.

One other thing they do, is pull themselves up and not whine about their situation. AJ was different in that respect, and much like some are saying in the main thread, AJ blamed others/made excuses for his actions. It was never AJ's fault. He never took responsibility for a lot of it-up to and including shooting his father in the back.

I can't really blame the rest of the surviving Qs for having some contempt for him, even though I loved him. He was a  messed up dude.

Still doesn't excuse Sonny in any way, shape or form, nor is their contempt and treatment of AJ worse than what Sonny did.

Edited February 9, 2016 by IWantCandy71

[ulkis]

Regardless of who likes who, I think having Sonny kill AJ was a bad move for all the characters all around. A lot of Sonny fans didn't like it, and obviously AJ fans didn't like it. It took Sonny too far, it was just mean to kill a character that was brought back only a year and a half before that, and it made the rest of the town look like chumps because once again Sonny would be getting away with flat out murder, of a major character no less.