GH History Lessons: Because History is Always Repeating Itself

[Tiger]

I wish there was somewhere to watch Scrubs from beginning to end. And by "end", I mean late Feb/Early Mar 2014. I've twittered everything after that out of existence!

[HeatLifer]

This will always be their last scene in my eyes.

[cmahorror]

WendyCR72 - it's at the end of this clip - literally the last 10 seconds.

 

[WendyCR72]

WendyCR72 - it's at the end of this clip - literally the last 10 seconds.

 

 

Thanks! I remember the sweater Robin wears here because I own it myself. But I really got a kick out of that scene!

[Oracle42]

I keep wondering whether RC's super shitty storylines would be better with the old script writers and it's scenes like this that make me believe it. 

Have we had a a scene like this since RC started? Hell, have we had a scene like the ten seconds at the end? The whole clip just shows what a joke Patrick/Sam are and Patrick/Sabrina were. Patrick liked being challenged by Robin, he enjoyed the exchange of ideas and he loved that she was capable of that. In that one scene they talked about their histories, medicine, their beliefs - you got a real sense of who these people are (and are to each other) in less than 10 minutes.

I know Guza engaged in a lot of dumb mob fuckery but he and JFP assembled an excellent team of writers and letting them go was one of the worst things RC/FV did to this show 

Edited September 25, 2015 by Oracle42

[ulkis]

I keep wondering whether RC's super shitty storylines would be better with the old script writers and it's scenes like this that make me believe it.

I know Guza engaged in a lot of dumb mob fuckery but he and JFP assembled an excellent team of writers and letting them go was one of the worst things RC/FV did to this show

I really think Ron's GH could have been great if they kept the old writers.

[HeatLifer]

I don't know how we got to a point on this show where no writers want to actually develop a relationship. The Sam/Patrick scene in the bedroom yesterday is a prime example. They just sat there saying, "We're madly in love!" "Our family!" "Our connection!" When was any of this EVER shown? When did they bond? Did they ever talk about their likes and dislikes? Their families? Their jobs?

And I feel like that applies to a lot of couples. I also don't think Maxie/Nathan, Michael/Sabrina, Kiki/Anyone, Jakeson/Liz, were ever properly developed. And the excuse of, "It's 2015! You can't slow-build a relationship anymore!" doesn't fly with me.

[UYI]

Actually, Maxie/Nathan did have a little more development, compared to most of the couples on the show in the last year or so (of course, KSt being on her maternity leave early last year probably had something to do with that).

[GHScorpiosRule]

WendyCR72 - it's at the end of this clip - literally the last 10 seconds.

 

*Sniff* And I totally watched the next one, with RobertFucking!Scorpio! Sure, sure, his initial appearance was that of PodRobert, but that accent! That sparkle in his eyes!  RobertandRobin=LOVE.  Now when I gets a chance, I will watch Robin finding poor Robert, all bloody...Oh my heart...

 

And the downside of these clips are seeing Lucky Larry be such a judgmental douche of the first order. No one will convince me that if JJ were still in the role at the time and Lulu got the abortion, that he'd be condemning her for it. Or that Lulu wouldn't still have gotten one if Laura was aware and not in a catatonic state.  And proof that this drug was not fucking temporary. Just experimental and that if it worked, Laura would be back for good, and normal and cured. But nooooo, had to quickly retcon that because they wouldn't keep Genie on past the renewal of Luke and Laura's 25th and even that was fake. BAH!  I see I'm still very bitter over that bit of bullshit, fuckery what was the point nonsense.

[SlovakPrincess]

I really think Ron's GH could have been great if they kept the old writers.

They might have kept the characters sounding more like real humans. But Ron's plots and pet wacky characters were often just very bad ideas. Why is Franco? Why is Nina and her whole wretched family? The Legion of Doom bullshit. Everything that happened to AJ and Robin. Just ... no.

[JaneDigby]

I'm rewatching Classic GH because, why not, and I need some history help. 

 

Has Jeff Webber ever come back since, oh, 1980? Is he dead?

 

Who killed Katherine Bell? (yes, I shipped Katherine and Stefan. Kinda liked Stefan and Laura, too. The real ship was Luke & Stefan, tho. Anyhoo...) Did Stefan ever find out that Alexis and Luke were responsible for Katherine's first trip over the parapet?

[UYI]

I don't think Jeff has ever returned. How can he be a deadbeat dad to Liz that way? ;)

 

Seriously, though, no I don't think so. RDA is too big for this show, and I guess TPTB never gave two craps about recasting him.

[ulkis]

I'm rewatching Classic GH because, why not, and I need some history help. 

 

Has Jeff Webber ever come back since, oh, 1980? Is he dead?

 

Who killed Katherine Bell? (yes, I shipped Katherine and Stefan. Kinda liked Stefan and Laura, too. The real ship was Luke & Stefan, tho. Anyhoo...) Did Stefan ever find out that Alexis and Luke were responsible for Katherine's first trip over the parapet?

 

Helena took one for the team with Katherine, it was her.

 

Yeah, Stefan definitely found out it was Alexis and Luke the first time, I'm not sure if it was after the trial or a little later. They made up pretty quickly though.

[Harmony233]

Yeah I never understood why they never recast Jeff but silly me that would be building an legacy family ad since none of GH exited before sonny came to town in the networks minds.

[cheyz]

I don't think Jeff has ever returned. How can he be a deadbeat dad to Liz that way? ;)

 

Seriously, though, no I don't think so. RDA is too big for this show, and I guess TPTB never gave two craps about recasting him.

 

Not only has he never been back, but he married a woman who has no name ;-) We know absolutely nothing about Liz and Sarah's mother, although she might be a doctor? Or she just travels with Jeff.

[UYI]

Not only has he never been back, but he married a woman who has no name ;-) We know absolutely nothing about Liz and Sarah's mother, although she might be a doctor? Or she just travels with Jeff.

 

Someone on Wikipedia long ago decided to name their mom Andrea Trent Webber because...HELENA. ;)

 

She and Jeff went to Bosnia to treat patients or something in 1997 or something; that's how Sarah and Liz ended up in PC in the first place. Did they end up in CA at some point offscreen, or was that just Sarah?

 

Does anyone remember how Sarah was written off in 1998? Did she just disappear? 

[JaneDigby]

Does anyone remember how Sarah was written off in 1998? Did she just disappear? 

 

I don't remember how Sarah was written off in 98, which is fitting for such a dull character. I vaguely recall her coming back in 2002 (?) and getting physical with Lucky. Then she took her inept self off again.

 

Helena took one for the team with Katherine, it was her.

 

Yeah, Stefan definitely found out it was Alexis and Luke the first time, I'm not sure if it was after the trial or a little later. They made up pretty quickly though.

 

Katherine was a mess of a character but I was/am a sucker for the SN/MBE chemistry. I've bad my dues in crappy dialogue.

 

The parapet mess is when I started to dislike Alexis. The "Katherine is really your sister" crap was, well, crap but I blamed that on the writers. And the banishment scene was a just a powerhouse performance by SN. Alexis going on and on about how guilty she felt about Katherine's death blah blah blah and Stefan being blamed for it blah blah blah got on my last nerve. More than once I grumbled, Bitch, just tell the police and you can stop feeling guilty. At least Luke sucked it up and didn't whine. Then they brought Katherine back and - miracle of miracles - made her even more of an annoying mess. That whole s/l is why I hate Guza in a nutshell - he kept saying it was like Rebecca but he clearly never bothered to read the book or watch the movie. 

[Tiger]

Was Kat/Nik all with Fish Taco, or did it start with TCh?

Usually I can remember which actor did which stories in a recast, but I saw a clip or an episode or something from some point in '99 after Lucky died, and Fish Taco was playing Nik.

For someone reason I thought TCh was on until JY took over as Lucky. The first time it registered for me that it was a NuNik was when he and NuLucky were playing shirtless basketball, both were visivly aroused, and acted as if they wanted to jump each other's bones.

Edited September 26, 2015 by Tiger

[ulkis]

Then they brought Katherine back and - miracle of miracles - made her even more of an annoying mess. That whole s/l is why I hate Guza in a nutshell - he kept saying it was like Rebecca but he clearly never bothered to read the book or watch the movie. 

 

Her hair did (imo) improve vastly though. In retrospect I wonder what the hell was the point of Katherine and Nikolas sleeping together. Just to put the final nail in Katherine/Stefan? Establish she was no good now? Working for Helena trying to get her hooks into Nik? Nik expressing adolescent rebellion?

 

I don't remember how Sarah was written off in 98, which is fitting for such a dull character. I vaguely recall her coming back in 2002 (?) and getting physical with Lucky. Then she took her inept self off again.

 

Yeah, she just went to school or something. If it had been 10 years later she probably would have been taken out in gunfire. I'm a little surprised she wasn't even then. The show was still good at the time but it still had all the Guza trademarks that he wear out later on.

 

Was Kat/Nik all with Fish Taco, or did it start with TCh?

 

It definitely started with TC.

 

I still can't believe they had Nikolas bleat about how Stefan never let him learn the saxophone. Talk about inserting the actor into the character.

[katie9918]

Was Kat/Nik all with Fish Taco, or did it start with TCh?

Usually I can remember which actor did which stories in a recast, but I saw a clip or an episode or something from some point in '99 after Lucky died, and Fish Taco was playing Nik.

For someone reason I thought TCh was on until JY took over as Lucky. The first time it registered for me that it was a NuNik was when he and NuLucky were playing shirtless basketball, both were visivly aroused, and acted as if they wanted to jump each other's bones.

Ah, yes. The Ambiguously Gay Duo. I face palmed and giggled a LOT, but I'd rather go back there than to Guza's all mob all the time. We saw Mac and Felicia fairly regularly, Maxie wasn't completely worthless, and the females around Sonny were allowed to be about stuff other than him.

Yeah, there was Melissa, but McTavish was the last time I was invested in the entire show rather just Scrubs (which, to be fair, didn't exist at that point).

[UYI]

I don't remember how Sarah was written off in 98, which is fitting for such a dull character. I vaguely recall her coming back in 2002 (?) and getting physical with Lucky. Then she took her inept self off again.

 

 

She did come back in 2002, in the form of a different actress, and took Lucky from Liz. I guess aside from that last part, McTavish deserves some credit for at least acknowledging that Liz actually does have a family outside of Audrey or her kids.

[katie9918]

She did come back in 2002, in the form of a different actress, and took Lucky from Liz. I guess aside from that last part, McTavish deserves some credit for at least acknowledging that Liz actually does have a family outside of Audrey or her kids.

Lucky would have been better off had he never looked back, other than with regrets for not telling the truth when he should have, considering the bus that ran him over in the name of Jiz.

[Ambrosefolly]

I will give McTavish this prop, she managed to write a love interest for AJ! Introduced for AJ and he and Courtney (yes that Courtney) not only had decent chemistry but had the making of a decent love story. Of course the every wise Guza decided to change the one thing no one was complaining about, paired her with Jason because what woman would want to be with AJ when they can be kept by Jason. 

[KerleyQ]

Yeah, she just went to school or something. If it had been 10 years later she probably would have been taken out in gunfire. I'm a little surprised she wasn't even then. The show was still good at the time but it still had all the Guza trademarks that he wear out later on.

 

 

Ah, yes, that lovely era where no one left town without being in a body bag.  Because who ever heard of people just moving away?  That's crazy talk! 

[UYI]

It's strange to think that Liz wouldn't even exist had Becky never auditioned for Sarah. They didn't cast her because she wasn't blonde (she was the only brunette among the final 5 or so girls at the final audition, including Jennifer Sky, the original Sarah, or as I call her, Tara Lipinski's long lost sister), but they liked her so much they created Liz just for her. If not for that, Sarah might have been just a footnote character who was gone once Guza came back (I mean, she was anyway, but she at least led to Liz's creation). 

[katie9918]

I will give McTavish this prop, she managed to write a love interest for AJ! Introduced for AJ and he and Courtney (yes that Courtney) not only had decent chemistry but had the making of a decent love story. Of course the every wise Guza decided to change the one thing no one was complaining about, paired her with Jason because what woman would want to be with AJ when they can be kept by Jason.

I knew I was forgetting a reason I liked McTavish! She had a passing respect for AJ and yet was enough of a soap writer to fall him in love with Courtney (before she was SWMNBN) just as she got wise to his shenanigans. AND gave them a second chance that was going beautifully before that jerk Guza brought that Borg bastard Jason back and destroyed AJ a second time.

[cmahorror]

From when Emma was born - actual drama in a hospital and someone in danger from something other than a bullet wound. Shocking!

 

 

 

 

I miss this GH.

[UYI]

In 1995 during the AIDS storyline, there was an ABC Afterschool Special called Positive: A Journey Into AIDS, that followed Michael Sutton and Kimberly McCullough as they worked on the story and did research for it. The first two parts are up, but the third part was muted for a music copyright issue, and part four was missing. But part five is up.

 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2015 by UYI

[UYI]

I just watched the infamous "NO SERVICE!" scene and I'm really happy because it's even better than you guys said it was (at 0:59!):

 

[UYI]

Nik says at the end here that he would be a really bad person without Emily. I think it's safe to say he was right:

 

[tvgoddess]

 

I just watched the infamous "NO SERVICE!" scene

 

I was so happy the day that I watched that way after it aired. Thanks to TWoP for making me aware it existed.

[cmahorror]

Remember when Patrick hated Sonny:

 

 

 

 

Good times

[cheyz]

When did Sarah come back after her husband was killed. Was that 2002 or later? I don't even remember what she did while she was on, I think she was a doctor by then.

[UYI]

When did Sarah come back after her husband was killed. Was that 2002 or later? I don't even remember what she did while she was on, I think she was a doctor by then.

 

She came back briefly in 2002 in the form of Sarah Laine (as opposed to original actress Jennifer Sky), but I didn't know she had been married. 

[Ambrosefolly]

Yes, Anna was referencing that Paul was reluctantly doing Faison's bidding back in 1991 during the cartel storyline.  

 

Paul's daughter, Susan, was inflicted with this poison -- she'd die unless she got the antidote every month.  Faison inflicted Tiffany with the same poison, which Robin almost drank. 

 

And a permanent antidote was developed ..... wait for it .... at General Hospital by Tony Jones. Damn, back in the day when the hospital meant something!!

 

Susan's screen time ended when Susan's purpose as a pawn in the cartel ended. Jenny, Paul, Susan, and Jenny's nephew Sly just faded away in late 1993, early 1994.  Sly would come over and visit his cousin Lucky, but then he just stopped coming around.

So Tony Jones, before Carly, was a good, caring intelligent doctor. Tony Jones, after Carly, was  a good, caring, intelligent doctor. Him being the town asshole was in response to being in a relationship with Carly. I know everyone cheered on Carly as she verbally eviscerated him, but it hurt my heart how fall Tony fell (and how much further Guza was willing to push him further) and no one after all these years, after Tony, AJ, Jason, Jax and even Sonny and her own sons, are going to say, maybe it isn't the men, maybe it is Carly.

[Harmony233]

I loved Tony it hurts to watch old eps and see how they destroyed him.I really thought they would have eventually redeemed him and him and Bobbie would hve reunited.

[Ambrosefolly]

Talking about Nik and Hayden on the GH News thread, and how ever since Luke raped Laura TPTB have couples can be complete shit to each other and call it true love, why couldn't Courtney forgive AJ for using her to get Michael back or even stalking her (which, by the way was a complete shit thing to do to Billy Warlock when he went to film the Baywatch movie for a month)? I mean her fucking brother stole her husband's child and as someone that grew up without a father, couldn't she appreciate AJ singlemindness in having his son back? As for the stalking, yes not great (you know what else not great, making out with your husband's brother while he is out of town) but hey, it isn't rape or attempted murder. The minute she switched alliances is the minute she became a hateful, self righteous little bitch. Kind of feel sorry for Alicia Leigh Willis because she was signed on to play a scrappy, salt of the earth woman that was in a love story with an actor that could emote to SWMNBN and the switch was done for no other reason than Courtney and Jason are both blonde and Guza hates AJ.

[UYI]

Didn't Brian Frons mandate Journey, though? Everything I've heard about Guza says that he basically wrote for Journey with a gun to his head, he hated them so much.

Edited September 30, 2015 by UYI

[Oracle42]

Guza killed off their babeh in the icy waters off the coast of Bolivia and invalidated their marriage. Good times

[ulkis]

Plus killed her off in monkey virus and then she was pretty much never mentioned again until Nicholas Bechtel started playing Spencer.

[UYI]

Yeah, you would think she would visit her BFF Carly in ghost form at least once to knock some sense into her from the afterlife, or have Carly mention her once or twice.

Somehow I think if TB were still playing Carly that would happen.

 

I'm still curious if the rumors that TB and ALW were lovers at one point are actually true. It wouldn't surprise me if they were.

Edited September 30, 2015 by UYI

[GHScorpiosRule]

At the risk of pissing off Scrubs fans, isn't it somewhat fair to say that Patrick never really had much of a chance to develop as a fully individual character, even at the beginning and with Robin?

 
As a fan, this question didn't piss me off, but I have to also disagree. Patrick was a fully individual character--based on who is father was, and he wasn't a podperson. He had flaws; he could be kind; he was an ass; Felt like he was God's Gift to whatever...at the same time, he was taught humility and though we (and I mean the viewers) pretty much knew he was brought in to be Robin's love interest, he was allowed to become friends with Liz, and had a flirtation with Cujo...and well, I'm not explaining this right, but he was not a blank canvas, is what I'm trying to say.  They brought in Matt, a brother; but then they got rid of him. So much potential that could have expanded the character after Kimberly left.
 
Or what ulkis(!) said:

 

See, I think Patrick developed as an individual just fine during his Robin years. I don't think just because a character is with someone they don't have their own personality. I was actually pretty excited to see how he would function without Robin when Kim McC left. BUT. Then they effed it up when they made Robin a prisoner. I can't route for him with anyone when Robin is a prisoner. I do agree overall that there probably wasn't much chance for him to be popular with another woman post-Robin, but the way they did it, they pretty much ruined all chances.

[Tiger]

Yeah, you would think she would visit her BFF Carly in ghost form at least once to knock some sense into her from the afterlife, or have Carly mention her once or twice.

Somehow I think if TB were still playing Carly that would happen.

 

I'm still curious if the rumors that TB and ALW were lovers at one point are actually true. It wouldn't surprise me if they were.

 

Wait, I thought Tamara was hooking up with Ted?!?

[ulkis]

Tamara Braun apparently really got around! ;)

[SlovakPrincess]

You make a good point.  It's something I felt but couldn't articulate when Ron would get on his high horse about people not accepting some plot twist or storyline when they had accepted something seemingly similar in the past. I'd want to say, "When it works, it works.  But you, Ron Carlivati, don't get to say whether it works. That's for the audience to decide."

 

Still, I don't really know that Alan and Monica were a "root-for" couple.  What I mean by that is that people were entertained by them, and they enjoyed Stuart's and Leslie's interactions. But I don't see the audience believing that what they were experiencing was "true love."  People seemed to root for them to bicker and quip with each other. And they were happy again when the one would have the other's back, in a very "hey, you don't get to say that to my wife/husband, only I get to say that!" kind of way.  It wasn't until Labine came along and gave Monica breast cancer that Alan and Monica were portrayed as a "should be together" kind of couple.

 

Having said that, I would also acknowledge that there wasn't a significant faction of the audience that felt like Alan had to be jailed for his overt attempts at murdering Monica.  But I would argue that the 70s social morals came into play there. Alan was a jilted husband, and that was supposed to make his madmen inclinations less egregious.  It was very "what happens in a marriage, stays in a marriage" kind of philosophy going on.  If Alan had done that to a girlfriend, especially one who wasn't as capable of standing up to Alan as Monica was, I don't think the audience would have had the same dismissive response.

 

Gloria Monty also made sure to "punish" Alan by injuring his hand and making him unable to operate any longer. And unlike Sonny's various "punishments," Alan's punishment stuck.

 

Between Tracy never being punished for letting her father die or Lila never going to jail for that ages ago murder she committed and Alan never going to jail for trying to kill Rick and Monica, I wonder -- if we had social media back in the 1970s, would there be a bunch of us online bemoaning the Quartermaines never having to pay for anything.

 

"Why'd they get away with that?"

"Because ... Quartermaines."

 

 

While it's true that GH characters have gotten away with crazy shit since forever ... HOW it is done matters.  

 

1.    Is the character or this story even interesting?     

 

 With good, careful writing, you can redeem characters from a lot of crazy shit.   But you've got to give the audience something to latch onto.  The Quartermaines (Alan, Edward, Tracy, Monica) were a very toxic bunch back in the day.  But they were very distinct, complex characters.  You wouldn't want to live with these people, because they'd eat you alive -- but they were witty and fun and fascinating to watch.  Monica and Alan weren't supposed to be an "aw, how sweet!" couple, but they were interesting.    

 

As opposed to Sonny, who is mind-numbing and does the same loathsome shit over and over, and Franco and Nina, who are cartoons.  Or the rest of the characters right now, who are out of character or just boring and flat.

 

2.    Does the character deserve redemption?    

 

If the character does something reprehensible, you have to put the work - a lot of work - into explaining to the audience why they should care about this character ever being happy.   So you had Sean Donnelly and Anna feeling terrible for all of the shit they pulled,  trying to fix what they'd done, and then actively working on the side of law enforcement afterwards. You had Luke hating himself for the rape (not nearly enough, in my view, but still) and working to be a better person.  You had Holly feeling awful about her con artist ways and changing them.  You had (real)Duke trying to get out of the mob and dying tragically as he tried.

 

Now, people do horrific crap and they mostly feel bad that they might get in trouble or be inconvenienced.

 

3.   Are the bad acts out of characters?   

 

It helps if the character does their craziest shit early in their tenure -- the audience hadn't known Alan or Luke that long when Alan plotted to kill Monica and Rick, or when Luke raped Laura.   At that point, the audience didn't have history to say "oh, he'd never do that!"   Alan was ruthless (and at the time, temporary insanity leading to "crimes of passion" was probably still considered a semi-legit defense ... in fiction, if not in real life).   Luke was not a completely known entity at that point.  

 

Years later, these characters should have learned and shouldn't be doing this shit anymore.   This is why the recent years of Luke-the-grumpy-alcoholic and Fluke weren't well-received.       

 

And we've known Nik for years, and ordering a hit and the current bullshit he's doing is definitely out of character.  Screwing someone out of a business deal?  Sleeping with someone else's wife?   Acting like a pouty, whiny little jerk?  Yeah, he'd do that.   What's happening with him now?  No.     (See also: Liz).

 

4.  Have you gone too far or did you give the character an escape hatch?

 

This show is way too enamored with murder now.  I have no idea why they think having people killing each other on the regular is a good idea.  It's not even dramatic anymore, it's just like "ok, well it's the third Tuesday of the month, so probably time for another killing!"  

 

Stopping the characters short of cold blooded murder, or at least making them fail at their endeavor and later be totally relieved that they failed and horrified that they ever went that far -- well, that would help!  Ava would work a million times better as a character if she had accidentally killed Connie while wrestling over a gun, and if she hadn't been a-ok with getting AJ killed to cover up her own crime.  

[UYI]

Not to nitpick, but I'm fairly certain Alan's hand injury dated back to his first day in 1977. He had been a surgeon, injured his hand before he started at GH, and so was a general practitioner until he later became chief-of-staff. I'm pretty sure that was always part of his back story. Because wasn't a root of contention in his marriage to Monica, in part, that she was a heart surgeon, but he would never again be able to perform surgery?

Edited October 1, 2015 by UYI

[Francie]

UYI, I was so young when I watched back then, and so much of it went over my head, that I may be conflating events. I don't even remember Monica and Alan meeting -- I think that happened before I started paying attention to the show.  So, I defer to the memories of others, and especially to those who've watched episodes online more recently.

[linsav]

UYIToday. 6:28 am

Not to nitpick, but I'm fairly certain Alan's hand injury dated back to his first day in 1977. He had been a surgeon, injured his hand before he started at GH, and so was a general practitioner until he later became chief-of-staff. I'm pretty sure that was always part of his back story. Because wasn't a root of contention in his marriage to Monica, in part, that she was a heart surgeon, but he would never again be able to perform surgery?

 

 

Alan injured his left hand after being caught in an explosion the injury forced him to end his surgical career [late 1970s}.  In the mid 1990s he was operated on in hopes of performing surgery again and became addicted to the painkillers.  

[dubbel zout]

Didn't he also put his fist through a wall, and that ended his surgeon days for good? Or is that almost every other surgeon on TV?

[UYI]

UYI, I was so young when I watched back then, and so much of it went over my head, that I may be conflating events. I don't even remember Monica and Alan meeting -- I think that happened before I started paying attention to the show.  So, I defer to the memories of others, and especially to those who've watched episodes online more recently.

 

Oh, I wasn't even born until 1989, and it was years even after that I even knew anything about the show's history, and even before I actively began watching, so I really have little to no right to say much about certain aspects of the show's history, even if it's something I love watching on YT/reading about, but I seem to remember something about that--either something in an old clip, or maybe even something a fan said long ago. I wish I could remember. 

 

Alan & Monica;s first scene together, AFAIK, is not on YouTube, nor is their first wedding. A shame. These scenes here with the original Rick are among the oldest A&M scenes on YT:

 

Edited October 2, 2015 by UYI