GH History Lessons: Because History is Always Repeating Itself

[Lobsel Vith]

Lorenzo suffered because TK got extremely popular and had amazing chemistry with TB's Carly. I think Diego was a misfire from the get-go, and it certainly didn't help that he was Courtney's foster kid and there was like four years between the character ages. They didn't really know what to do with him. See: Zombie!Diego.

Yeah, I read about the "jacket incident" with TK.

I don't disagree that the writers mishandled the story of giving Lorenzo a son (although I think they would have given more of an effort if they cared - like they did with Sonny and Dante), but I think the general idea of Alcazar having a son could have been handled well (in theory).

I read that, originally, it was supposed to be Sam instead of Courtney, although I think there would have been the same age issue. Honestly, I think it could have been handled differently; there are so many good fan fic stories here alone that I have trouble imagining that paid writers couldn't have come up with a more compelling narrative.

There were bits I liked, though - Lorenzo being respectful of Maria despite her perceived involvement in the hit against him, offering to buy her a house, honoring the decision Maria and Diego made about whether or not they wanted Lorenzo in their life. Or maybe just the general depiction of Lorenzo having a heart and fully understanding that Maria might not want her son anywhere near his lifestyle. However, I agree that, overall, it was a misfire. It seemed like the writers didn't really care all that much about the storyline or the character. Diego basically became a walking plot device, as I think the PC Stalker storyline and TMK narrative demonstrate.

I do wonder if the character would have gotten the same treatment if he had become popular with fans (and perhaps played by a stronger and more charismatic actor).

[UYI]

Just saw this for the first time: Jason & SJB!Carly's last scene in 2000 when SBu left the first time. Here, he clearly states that they can never be together romantically, and Carly is clearly heartbroken to hear him say that.

 

[GHScorpiosRule]

UYI, this isn't the first time he's told her that.  He's told her over and over again, but she's always ignored it. She tried to get him to sleep with her shortly after Michael was born. She'd crept into his bedroom where he was already asleep, and started caressing him, etc., (blech) and he woke up and told her no.

 

But shebeast isn't one to take refusal lightly. It must be rammed into her head, over and over again. It didn't help that he preferred Robin over her, but worse, Liz! to her heinous ass.  Too bad Jason wasn't around when she told Liz "I got rid of one angel, and I can get rid of you" or something like that, around the time Liz was helping Jason out after he got shot. I think it was after he saw moobity moobster and the shebeast having sex.  Of course, at that time, Liz and Jason were just friends, but shebeast couldn't fathom such a thing. I wanted him to hear it, just so he'd choke on some guilt for the way he came down on Robin for telling AJ about Michael.

 

Who am I kidding. This was during his I am Judge and Executioner about who can lie (me, by omission) and how everyone else who does, is cut out of my life! period.

[KerleyQ]

Carly was just a fuckbuddy to Jason.  Then she was Michael's mother.  He's never, truly, been romantically into her.  I think there was a point where he might have considered it, when Robin was gone and he knew how much Carly was into him, but then he saw her screwing Sonny, and that option shut down for good in his mind.  

[UYI]

I love Maxie and Lulu's friendship (or at least I did with KSt and JMB), but how on earth did Maxie ever become friends with Lulu after everything Lulu did to deliberately hurt Georgie by going after Dillon? Was there ever any discussion about this before they really became friends? 

[WendyCR72]

but how on earth did Maxie ever become friends with Lulu after everything Lulu did to deliberately hurt Georgie by going after Dillon?

 

The same concise explanation used by every hack regime: Reasons. And no, I don't ever recall it being discussed. Georgie the First should have haunted Maxie's ass way back when.

[magnolia11]

I love Maxie and Lulu's friendship (or at least I did with KSt and JMB), but how on earth did Maxie ever become friends with Lulu after everything Lulu did to deliberately hurt Georgie by going after Dillon? Was there ever any discussion about this before they really became friends? 

 

I don't remember all the specifics myself, but I remember that Maxie did sleep with Lulu's boyfriend Logan (Scotty's son) back when she and Lulu hated each other, so maybe they considered that there was some playing field-leveling somewhere in there?

[Ambrosefolly]

I love Maxie and Lulu's friendship (or at least I did with KSt and JMB), but how on earth did Maxie ever become friends with Lulu after everything Lulu did to deliberately hurt Georgie by going after Dillon? Was there ever any discussion about this before they really became friends? 

Georgie very graciously forgave Lulu, which I think fueled Maxie animosity towards her in the beginning because she is decidedly less forgiving. Lulu disliked Maxie because she contributed to Lucky's drug addiction. They were at each others throats, even when Lulu started working as Kate's other assistant. Maxie did sleep with Logan and told Lulu about it, which lead to Lulu meeting and later dating Johnny, and Maxie started to make a play for him as well. When Lulu killed Logan after Logan attacked Maxie, Maxie in her way tried to help Lulu by covering it up. Her concern for Lulu, coupled with almost being raped by Logan and it inadvertently being stop by Lulu , allowed her to let go of some of anger towards to Lulu and let them get well enough to live together.  The friendship between Maxie and Lulu took a lot more time to develop, more than all of Ron's romantic love stories combined.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Ambrosefolly

[ulkis]

I love Maxie and Lulu's friendship (or at least I did with KSt and JMB), but how on earth did Maxie ever become friends with Lulu after everything Lulu did to deliberately hurt Georgie by going after Dillon? Was there ever any discussion about this before they really became friends? 

 

And after Maxie drugged her brother and faked having his baby.

 

These two have gotten past some hurdles, heh.

[dubbel zout]

These two have gotten past some hurdles, heh.

 

That's one reason I really like their friendship. It's been hard earned, to put it mildly.

Edited July 14, 2015 by dubbel zout

[ulkis]

To this day I don't know which version of this old Michele ValJean story is the truth: That she wanted to put Liz with Sonny, or make them somehow related(????? !!!!!).

After the Emily shit I've always lived in fear of Sonny and Robin.

 

I think she wanted Liz/Sonny. I remember there were some on on one scenes that came off as chemistry testing.

 

I don't think the show would have ever gone for Robin/Sonny, just cause Guza was that indifferent to her. Ron . . . maaaaaybe.

[jsbt]

I think she wanted Liz/Sonny. I remember there were some on on one scenes that came off as chemistry testing.

 

I know she was/is a huge Liz fan, but that is just gross. Especially back then, when she was very young and a recent victim of sexual violence.

 

I don't think Ron would ever do Sonny and Robin. The only person I can think of that would dare go there is, I dunno, Chuck Pratt.

Edited July 14, 2015 by jsbt

[TeeVee329]

That's one reason I really like their friendship. It's been hard earned, to put it mildly.

 

But now - after everything with the surrogacy and the nasty custody battle being swiftly pushed under the rug when Ron got bored - it rings much falser to me.

[magnolia11]

I think she wanted Liz/Sonny. I remember there were some on on one scenes that came off as chemistry testing.

 

By definition, a Liz/Sonny pairing could only result in an Octomom-type storyline. ::shudder::

[WendyCR72]

By definition, a Liz/Sonny pairing could only result in an Octomom-type storyline. ::shudder::

 

Liz and Sonny would populate their own nation.

[Box305]

Years ago, like early 1988, they definitely were chem testing Robert and Felicia. This was before they killed off Frisco but he had been offscreen a while (he was only "dead" a year) and before they paired Robert with Cheryl Stansbury (Tiffany's sister). I didn't realize that they were doing it at the time. I was 13, and not too swift. but I saw some old scenes on YouTube recently and thought, "Oh they were definitely chem testing them." 

Edited July 14, 2015 by Box305

[Tiger]

I think she wanted Liz/Sonny. I remember there were some on on one scenes that came off as chemistry testing.

 

I don't think the show would have ever gone for Robin/Sonny, just cause Guza was that indifferent to her. Ron . . . maaaaaybe.

I'm pretty sure whoever was writing in 1998/99 was going to make Liz into Sonny's half sister, and then when Guza came back in 2000 he was planning to make Gia his half sister. And then he was fired, replaced my MaTavish and she made it Courtney instead.

If I'm remembering this correctly, they put the actress, Lynn Moody/Mooney (?) playing Gia and Taggart's mom on contract and were heavily playing Mike at the time too. I swear there was one point where it seemed the reveal was imminent and then suddenly Gia's mom vanished from screen and the whole thing was dropped.

And this definitely wasn't the only time it felt like Guza was literally days away from revealing something and then it got dropped. During the Rebecca story it seemed like he was an episode or two away from revealing Rebecca actually was Emily.

[jsbt]

He probably was. It's still the angle I'd use for Emily.

 

I was very upset that they never pulled the trigger on Gia and Sonny. I loved Lynne Moody. That said, Guza only left in late 2000. That was when MVJ and Liz Korte (or was it Karen Harris?) had the big chair for a few months before Hurricane JFP.

Edited July 14, 2015 by jsbt

[UYI]

That's one reason I really like their friendship. It's been hard earned, to put it mildly.

 

I do wonder if it would have happened had Georgie never been murdered, though. It is kind of a shame it only happened after that. 

[SlovakPrincess]

Years ago, like early 1988, they definitely were chem testing Robert and Felicia. This was before they killed off Frisco but he had been offscreen a while (he was only "dead" a year) and before they paired Robert with Cheryl Stansbury (Tiffany's sister). I didn't realize that they were doing it at the time. I was 13, and not too swift. but I saw some old scenes on YouTube recently and thought, "Oh they were definitely chem testing them."

Whaaaaat?

I just don't see that ever working, much as I loved both characters back in the day.

Although, on a semi-related note, my sister used to 'ship Anna and Frisco. Hee!

[Box305]

Whaaaaat?

I just don't see that ever working, much as I loved both characters back in the day.

Although, on a semi-related note, my sister used to 'ship Anna and Frisco. Hee!

 

I loved Anna and Frisco as friends and believe me, when Felicia was being a jackass to him when he first came back, I was hoping someone else would catch his eye but not Anna. Haha. 

[UYI]

Frisco's face when Anna asked him to untie Robert after the Valentine's Day Massacre of 1991 was PRICELESS. 

[WendyCR72]

He probably was. It's still the angle I'd use for Emily.

 

I was very upset that they never pulled the trigger on Gia and Sonny. I loved Lynne Moody. That said, Guza only left in late 2000. That was when MVJ and Liz Korte (or was it Karen Harris?) had the big chair for a few months before Hurricane JFP.

 

It was MVJ and Korte. The Liz fangirl versus the Carly fanatic, and from which sprang the horrible Face of Deception crap with Carly backing Gia and Laura backing Liz. I wanted all of them to self combust and get the hell off my screen.

[jsbt]

I actually liked the Face of Deception stuff. But yeah, I remember that tug of war now.

[UYI]

That storyline had a cute scene with Gia dancing to Destiny's Child and imagining her first photo shoot. I just love this scene, I don't think anything like this would happen on the show today. Or if it did, it would be with Spencer. Ack.

 

[Box305]

Frisco's face when Anna asked him to untie Robert after the Valentine's Day Massacre of 1991 was PRICELESS. 

 

 

One of my other favorite Frisco/Anna moments was during the Alien storyline when Sean was over at Anna's and Frisco was standing in the background of the scene. After Sean leaves, Anna turns to Frisco who's holding a porcelain duck or goose and stroking it. Finola starts laughing as the scene fades to black.

 

JW also mooned FH one time while she was doing a scene at Duke's old club back in the day. I think he was offstage by the elevator on the set. Hahaha. 

Edited July 15, 2015 by Box305

[Harmony233]

I'm one that perferred lulu and maxie as enemies.Too bad they made Logan so dang crazy I actually thought logan and maxie had a scotty/Lucy vibe to them orginally.

[TeeVee329]

I stumbled onto this interesting scene from 1993, right after Luke and Laura come out of hiding.  Big group scene at the brownstone - they meet Mac and Robin for the first time and then Scotty shows up for some reason and punches Luke:

 

[dubbel zout]

The part where Laura and Scott see each other uses some of my favorite music from the show. Kin's hair hasn't changed much, has it? Hee.

 

Did Mac still have his terrible Australian accent or was he in the process of losing it by then?

Edited July 19, 2015 by dubbel zout

[Harmony233]

I think that was my fav music or the paino music when something sad you used to happen lol.THeir used to be a lot of hair jokes about scottys hair during the early 90s lol.

[TeeVee329]

I thought Kin/Scotty looked pretty good there.  And the reaction that spread across his face when he saw Lucky, I liked that.

 

Had Serena been born yet at this point?

[UYI]

Nope, she was born in December.

[Harmony233]

No serena was born December 8th.

[Oracle42]

Awww Little Lucky! 

[UYI]

Because I hate myself, I recently looked up the Hate!Sex scene that was the birth of Scum (Sonny & Carly's hater name, for those who don't know--it's their equivalent to Jiz), and I can't stop listening to the background music. It's so good! Is it a real song or was it written for the show? Anyone know?

 

If you want to hear it but don't want to vomit, just have it on in the background while you look at something else. Works for me. :P

 

Edited July 21, 2015 by UYI

[jsbt]

No, that was a Billy Corgan (of the Smashing Pumpkins) instrumental piece that he wrote for the Stigmata soundtrack. It's a great track and it was back when GH (and all the ABC soaps) had money to use for commercial music, and creativity with their musical choices.

 

[ulkis]

Because I hate myself, I recently looked up the Hate!Sex scene that was the birth of Scum (Sonny & Carly's hater name, for those who don't know--it's their equivalent to Jiz), and I can't stop listening to the background music. It's so good! Is it a real song or was it written for the show? Anyone know?

If you want to hear it but don't want to vomit, just have it on in the background while you look at something else. Works for me. :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7z6MNnx0BM

I actually watched that storyline and got sucked in despite myself, and then there was this scene where Carly talked about how maybe they could be better people and Sonny was like don't delude yourself that you aren't trash and then I remembered why they suck. The worst part was that it wasn't even in a mean way, he just said it like a statement of fact. I know, I know, Carly is a beast but at the time she still could have reformed.

[Bringonthedrama]

I actually liked the Face of Deception stuff. But yeah, I remember that tug of war now.

I wonder if the behind-the-scenes people remember it too; I noticed Liz had the exact same type of dress and hairdo for the Nurse's Ball this year as she did when she was in the FOD storyline that included Jason removing her makeup/the buildup of tension between them.

[UYI]

I had no idea! Thanks, jsbt! 

[nilyank]

The music really made that scene better. I will admit that I always wanted Sonny and Carly together and that hasn't changed for me over the years.

 

Watching that clip, I am reminded once again of how stupid the criminals are in Port Charles. Jason goes to meet Moreno with only one guy as backup and is easily ambushed. Then on the other side, Moreno's men don't bother with the kill shot in the head for Jason.

[HeatLifer]

Does anyone know the answer to this question?

Wait...y'all...correct me if I'm wrong...Patrick said today that Helena "only had Robin for a year." What time period was he referring to?

I'm having a serious brain freeze. It was Dr. O/Faison/Jerry who had Robin for nearly 2 years. Wasn't Helena doing other shit during that time and then Luke "killed her" or whatever? And then Victor had her this last time until Helena took her. I'm going cray.

[ulkis]

Does anyone know the answer to this question?

I'm having a serious brain freeze. It was Dr. O/Faison/Jerry who had Robin for nearly 2 years. Wasn't Helena doing other shit during that time and then Luke "killed her" or whatever? And then Victor had her this last time until Helena took her. I'm going cray.

 

People assume that time and the story behind Robin's kidnapping is a strict progression of cause to effect, but *actually* from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff.

 

Okay, sorry for not answering seriously (or, at least, not answering clearly, cause that quote captures how I feel about the background to this stuff at this point) but I couldn't resist using that quote.

 

To attempt to answer, yeah I think you're right. Although there were lots of rumors at the time that it was all going to be interconnected, so probably Helena was supposed to be helping out Stavros AND knew about Robin as well. Cause, Helena. There must be a bit of crack cocaine in her Nivea to give her so much energy at eightysomething.

[HeatLifer]

Thanks for attempting to answer. ;) It's just...the more I think about it, the more I think it was a fuck up on the writers end. Because, first, Helena herself never had Robin. Even if she knew about it, she was not a part of it at all. That was all Dr. O, Jerry, Faison. And, second, it was not "only for a year."

Either Ron is rewriting history or he made a mistake. Could go either way.

[dubbel zout]

Why not both?

[HeatLifer]

I guess, for me, there's a difference between intentionally changing X to Y and straight up not remembering the story. The latter is so much more egregious, especially in this case. To not have Patrick know who had Robin and for how long she was gone? Like, that's crazy.

[WendyCR72]

Well, Ron isn't about organic story but plot points, so it's no surprise to me he is changing shit on the fly, pulling it out of his ass. Even if it negates everything we had seen before.

 

Hence why GH is in the toilet.

[jsbt]

They fudged the date to make Jake's absence seem more pronounced in the script. In reality, Robin was imprisoned for a year and substantial change. Both times they fudged it, so it's really all the same to me.

[HeatLifer]

They fudged the date to make Jake's absence seem more pronounced in the script. In reality, Robin was imprisoned for a year and substantial change. Both times they fudged it, so it's really all the same to me.

Robin and multiple characters have already said that she was gone for "2 years" at various times. I mean, the show can say whatever they want now, but the fact is it was not "only a year" and it was not Helena who had her. That's a HUGE fuck up.

Edited July 21, 2015 by HeatLifer

[SlovakPrincess]

Everything about the Robin story shows such monumentally poor judgment that it scarcely matters if they can no longer get the details right.

Geez, retcon it to Robin actually being brainwashed but free, chomping on croissants in Paris and forgetting she has a family. I won't complain. If you're going to fuck up this already fucked up story, at least do it in a way that makes it less sadistic.

Here's how you DON'T deal with an actress' unavailability - leave the character in limbo and peril for years so the audience and other characters can't move on.

Edited July 21, 2015 by SlovakPrincess

[jsbt]

Sure, but it wasn't two years then and it's not two years now. We deal with this kind of shifting soap time in much worse ways than this on a regular basis, on many shows - and Helena's cabal did have Robin, we saw her involved well before her 'death.' I can't get that worked up on them using brief shorthand dialogue about Robin when I've already dealt with 200-year-old Frank Smith and Todd Manning's time-traveling daughters, not to mention when how they're actively handling Robin is a much bigger problem.

Edited July 21, 2015 by jsbt