GH History Lessons: Because History is Always Repeating Itself

[Oracle42]

10 minutes ago, TheMediaHo said:

And  Ric and Lucky...no goodies for BillyWarlockAJ?

They were pretty in their scenes together but they never hooked up.

I don't remember BillyWarlockAJ having a love interest other than Corky and maybe.. Rachel?

[ulkis]

I think you're thinking of Lydia, Nik's arranged wife?

[UYI]

29 minutes ago, Oracle42 said:

They were pretty in their scenes together but they never hooked up.

I don't remember BillyWarlockAJ having a love interest other than Corky and maybe.. Rachel?

There was also Hannah, albeit briefly. 

Edited April 20, 2017 by UYI

[HeatLifer]

Sam's men in order: Jax, Sonny, Jason, Ric, Lucky, Jason, McBain, Silas, Podtrick, Jason.

[dubbel zout]

3 hours ago, ulkis said:

Quote

That's right...that whole Dead Man's Hand fiasco! Did she then move on to BillyWarlockAJ or was Sonny next? I think I remember the chronology from there...

@TheMediaHo Next was Sonny, of course.

Sam slept with Jax and Sonny on the same night, I believe. With seemingly no shower in the interim.

[Oracle42]

The Hotel Fire! Which, I remember why teh sex with Jax happened but when/why Sonny? I watched their entire relationship on FF

[peachmangosteen]

1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

Sam slept with Jax and Sonny on the same night, I believe. With seemingly no shower in the interim.

Ew. I feel like I was watching during the hotel fire, but I don't remember this. Probably one of the many things from this show that I've trained myself to forget lol.

[MissL]

Yeah just one of the many reasons I can never ever like Sam. Jax and Sonny on the same day and a stupid attempt to catch the lighting in a bottle that was Jax/Brenda/Sonny just insert new tiny brunette.  Well I briefly liked drunk angry Sam. Briefly. Man I detest her. I actually can handle Carly better than Sam because at least there was SOME point where I found her compelling (damn you original Carly). Sam has never felt worth my time and definitely not worth all the time the show spends on her. God I still remember when Patrick first met her and hit on her while he was treating Jason and she kinda threatened with "don't you know who my boyfriend is?" Which I guess we were supposed to find funny and not horrifying? And that's just some random memory I have of her awfulness. I was actively wishing for her death during monkey virus. Oh that would have been lovely. 

[peachmangosteen]

I actually loved Sam when she first came on. And (for some unknown reason lol) I was super into Jason/Sam at first. But I quickly began to despise Jason and stopped watching becasue of it. I don't hate Sam now, but she is possibly in the top 3 for boring characters, which is such a shame.

Edited April 21, 2017 by peachmangosteen

[HeatLifer]

42 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I was super into Jason/Sam at first.

I couldn't ever like them partly because it was essentially the story Guza wanted for Jarly.

[UYI]

2 hours ago, HeatLifer said:

I couldn't ever like them partly because it was essentially the story Guza wanted for Jarly.

I thought the story was that Guza had wanted to put together Brazen (Brenda and Jason) for real, but then VM left in 2003 and they transferred that story to him and Sam.

[ulkis]

I forget whether he actually wanted to do Jason and Brenda, but he definitely didn't transfer whatever story he was planning for them to him and Sam. They didn't even try Sam/Jason until after Jax and Sonny.

[ulkis]

@TeeVee329 

Quote

It just astonishes me that nothing came of Nathan having shot Griffin back in the day, there was no real shakeup between Nathan and Maxie, it was all just so pointless.

I think KSt's issues probably changed the story. My guess is that RP was going to leave, so they decided to keep marry Nathan and Maxie, and then RP decided to stay and they sent off Maxie by herself.

[HeatLifer]

1 hour ago, UYI said:

I thought the story was that Guza had wanted to put together Brazen (Brenda and Jason) for real, but then VM left in 2003 and they transferred that story to him and Sam.

No, the whole raising another man's baby and then falling in love was what Guza wanted for Jarly.

[Asp Burger]

God I still remember when Patrick first met her and hit on her while he was treating Jason and she kinda threatened with "don't you know who my boyfriend is?" Which I guess we were supposed to find funny and not horrifying? And that's just some random memory I have of her awfulness.

Oh, and there have been so many.

[MissL]

"Life is tough sometimes and so is payback". Seriously?!!!! I totally forgot that! Sure let's kill a father of two you hold INDIRECTLY responsible for someone else's death. This is one of the women they put at the center of my soap?  

 

I miss my soap...when the badish guys (Luke maybe even Duke although I was always a Robert/Anna fan)seek to become good guys for the love of a good woman or due to the influence of their friends (Sean). I miss when couples were equal and took turns fighting for each other's love.  At what point in this show did it become the women ALWAYS seem to be the one begging for forgiveness or chasing the men? Ok maybe I'm over exaggerating a little but that's what it feels like!

[HeatLifer]

I love how Sam was always seen as superior to all women because she was OK with Jason killing people. It makes me laugh to this day.

[Jazzy24]

23 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

I love how Sam was always seen as superior to all women because she was OK with Jason killing people. It makes me laugh to this day.

I never thought that she was superior just really messed up in the head. 

But I did appreciate that it was different for a Jason relationship. Since I never cared that Jason and Sonny was in the mob I was okay with Sam being all about that life. 

[Ambrosefolly]

1 hour ago, MissL said:

"Life is tough sometimes and so is payback". Seriously?!!!! I totally forgot that! Sure let's kill a father of two you hold INDIRECTLY responsible for someone else's death. This is one of the women they put at the center of my soap?  

 

I miss my soap...when the badish guys (Luke maybe even Duke although I was always a Robert/Anna fan)seek to become good guys for the love of a good woman or due to the influence of their friends (Sean). I miss when couples were equal and took turns fighting for each other's love.  At what point in this show did it become the women ALWAYS seem to be the one begging for forgiveness or chasing the men? Ok maybe I'm over exaggerating a little but that's what it feels like!

 

 

Guza and  the rise of Jason Morgan,  Holy Hitman.

Quote

BJ died on 5/18/1994.  Carly arrived in Port Charles on 4/8/1996. Big difference from Nelle doubling down on her revenge plan 7 weeks after Morgan's death on 10/7/2016 by drugging Sonny on 11/28/2016 and taping his admission on 11/29/2016. Plus Carly did not befriend Bobbie, did not work for her nor have Bobbie rely on her for virtually everything especially at the time of Morgan's death/leading up to and at time of his funeral and the very hard time she had fir the holudays, she babysat Lucas a few times but did nothing to him, and did fall in love with Tony tho his life fell apart because of his affair with Carly and never was redeemed before his death. 

 

Death is death and two years is still pretty fresh, especially as BJ was a young, adorable child and not an adult like Morgan. If Bobbie was the one that befriended Carly instead of the other way around, then it makes it look worse, as Bobbie was opening herself up to Carly like that. Besides using Morgan's death, which Nelle isn't personally responsible for, Nelle hasn't endangered any children and directly saved Carly's youngest mealticket, Joss, from dying. While Carly was hiding her true identity from Bobbie, she started an affair with Tony (and gleefully smiled when Bobbie caught her with him), having a one night stand with AJ after a fight with Tony, drugging AJ to get him out of town before he could figure out he fathered her baby, and she carried this all out for a longer time period than Nelle. Besides, Carly is Bobbie's daughter, not some fucking servant of Bobbie's, it should mean more.  

Edited April 22, 2017 by Ambrosefolly

[Bringonthedrama]

5 hours ago, HeatLifer said:

I love how Sam was always seen as superior to all women because she was OK with Jason killing people. It makes me laugh to this day.

Carly, too. I could swear either Carly had a line to Sam (or the other way around) that they are the only ones who are superior enough/strong enough to accept Sonny and Jason as they are. It's been used to insult Elizabeth as basically not being woman enough to handle Jason's life. Sam even said recently to Carly (right after Scout was born) that she is the only woman strong enough to handle Sonny. I was thinking, ' if you mean pathetic enough to go back to him over and over and over again despite trauma and abuse to her and her sons, then absolutely you are correct Sam.'

[movingtargetgal]

Carly and Sam a strong women who don't let the fact they are married to murderers bother them.  When I grow up I want to be them.  Maybe some day I will be woman enough to embrace the mobster/murderer lifestyle.

[UYI]

21 hours ago, Asp Burger said:

 

Oh, and there have been so many.

 

I actually like Sam overall, but Skye's slap here is AWESOME. 

[Cheyanne11]

On 4/22/2017 at 8:59 AM, HeatLifer said:

I love how Sam was always seen as superior to all women because she was OK with Jason killing people. It makes me laugh to this day.

But when it's about other people killing someone she hoists herself up on some moral high ground she has no business being on. 

[ulkis]

Does anyone remember why Tracy left town in 2003? JE brought it up in her interview that she didn't remember and neither do I.

[TeeVee329]

Isn't that when she outed Skye as not being a biological Q?

Speaking of Skye, the mention of her today sent me looking for clips of her and Tracy's scrapes over the years.  I chose this one for two reasons:

1) Jane Elliot's open-mouthed horror when she turns around and sees Skye is amazing.

2) I love Love LOVE the little sequence of Edward asking why Skye's really back in town, Skye badly demurring, and Edward chuckling all, "Save it, bitch".  So great.

Edited April 28, 2017 by TeeVee329

[ulkis]

So this is backstage history, I hope that's okay. I keep reading that Liason was failing so Burton went to Guza and asked him to put him back in Jasam. 

Is this true? That Liason was tanking so badly, I mean.I just have a hard time believing Liason was outright failing, they had a large fanbase. Also, I don't really buy Guza was ever too serious about Liz and Jason, Steve B. asking to get out of it or not.

[Melgaypet]

Did they have a large fanbase? Or just a vocal and devoted one? That's a genuine question, because I don't know how exactly that kind of thing is measured.

I also don't know if Liason really tanked. I mean, they sure as fuck tanked with me, but you know how I feel about Jason. I agree that Guza was never really committed to that couple; if he had been, he wouldn't have cared if they tanked with the audience or not. Though he was generally indulgent of Burton...

So I have no idea. I'm helpful!

[Asp Burger]

Truthfully, this sounds like spin to me. At least, I've never heard that Burton was the catalyst for the switch. I think they did Liason for a while because Monaco's future plans were up in the air, and then Monaco stayed, so Jasam became the endgame couple again. If Monaco had gone, he would have stayed with Liz for a while and then they probably would have brought on some female mob assassin with a mission to assassinate Sonny before Jason's magical blue eyes caused her to switch sides, and she would have gotten Jason, long term. ("Liz worries about Jason's connection to Nikita." "Liz sees Jason with Nikita." "Jason swears he isn't attracted to Nikita." "Liz's jealousy drives Jason into Nikita's arms." "Carly taunts Liz about Jason and Nikita." Et cetera.) 

Sam is more the kind of character Guza would want to write as a Jason love interest; she "understands the danger" and all that. Guza could write Liz that way, or keep mining material out of her inability to get there, but he found it more appealing to have his favorite male character with a quasi-bad girl. And he never had any great love for Liz. He would park her with low-priority guys and leave the perceived blue chips for other women (Carly, Sam, Courtney, Brenda when she was on).   

Not even counting the three times in 2000-01 the Liason pairing stalled because Burton was either leaving the show or just passing through, Guza (and Pratt) had backed off on Liason at least twice before Sam was even in the picture. To wit:  

Edited May 6, 2017 by Asp Burger

[UYI]

I've always wondered what Guza thought about Lucky & Liz. I know he loves JJ (supposedly), but given how much of the rape story was really written/cared for by Michele Val Jean (also the one writer who ever really liked and understood LIz*), I wouldn't be surprised if she was the one writer who cared about LL2 as well. I suppose it's possible Guza backed off of Liason because of feeling LL2 were still the stronger couple/his JJ preference, but somehow I doubt it.

*I think Claire Labine would have done a great job with developing LIz more, too, had she ever returned. 

[dubbel zout]

7 hours ago, Asp Burger said:

And [Guza] never had any great love for Liz

I think this more than anything was the reason Elizabeth/Jason never truly got off the ground.

6 hours ago, UYI said:

I've always wondered what Guza thought about Lucky & Liz.

I think whenever JJ wasn't in the role, Guza did his best to destroy them. Even when JJ came back, Lucky had been turned into a pill-popping, cheating sobber, and there wasn't much Guza did to really salvage that. So while I think Guza appreciated JJ's talent and his chemistry with BH (and TG and GF), I don't think Lucky was much of a priority for him. 

Edited May 6, 2017 by dubbel zout
autocorrect

[Oracle42]

Quote

So while I think Guza appreciated JJ's talent and his chemistry with BH (and TG and GF), I don't think Lucky was much of a priority for him. 

I don't think LL2 was much of a priority for Guza but I think he loved JJ!Lucky. I saw more of Lucky being competent and smart and interacting with other popular characters - or at least other vcharacters that Guza liked- than I had in yeeears.

[Darklazr]

14 hours ago, ulkis said:

So this is backstage history, I hope that's okay. I keep reading that Liason was failing so Burton went to Guza and asked him to put him back in Jasam. 

Is this true? That Liason was tanking so badly, I mean.I just have a hard time believing Liason was outright failing, they had a large fanbase. Also, I don't really buy Guza was ever too serious about Liz and Jason, Steve B. asking to get out of it or not.

BS.  Liason is very popular.   It wasn't until Frons got his greasy hands on GH is when Guza had to stop his Liason 2002 story and pushed Elizabeth out for Courtney and finally Sam.

[Darklazr]

10 hours ago, Asp Burger said:

Truthfully, this sounds like spin to me. At least, I've never heard that Burton was the catalyst for the switch. I think they did Liason for a while because Monaco's future plans were up in the air, and then Monaco stayed, so Jasam became the endgame couple again. If Monaco had gone, he would have stayed with Liz for a while and then they probably would have brought on some female mob assassin with a mission to assassinate Sonny before Jason's magical blue eyes caused her to switch sides, and she would have gotten Jason, long term. ("Liz worries about Jason's connection to Nikita." "Liz sees Jason with Nikita." "Jason swears he isn't attracted to Nikita." "Liz's jealousy drives Jason into Nikita's arms." "Carly taunts Liz about Jason and Nikita." Et cetera.) 

Sam is more the kind of character Guza would want to write as a Jason love interest; she "understands the danger" and all that. Guza could write Liz that way, or keep mining material out of her inability to get there, but he found it more appealing to have his favorite male character with a quasi-bad girl. And he never had any great love for Liz. He would park her with low-priority guys and leave the perceived blue chips for other women (Carly, Sam, Courtney, Brenda when she was on).   

Not even counting the three times in 2000-01 the Liason pairing stalled because Burton was either leaving the show or just passing through, Guza (and Pratt) had backed off on Liason at least twice before Sam was even in the picture. To wit:  

 

Liason was yanked because Frons' wife liked Courtney in 2002 and Frons/KeMo wanted another round of JaSam after her contract issues in 2007/08.

[Jazzy24]

18 minutes ago, Darklazr said:

Liason was yanked because Frons' wife liked Courtney in 2002 and Frons/KeMo wanted another round of JaSam after her contract issues in 2007/08.

I don't remember Kelly wanting Jason/Sam back, from what I heard Lucky/Sam were received more with the audience than the writers thought they would be and Kelly and Greg were happy with the pairing. 

I don't know about the backstage politics and power play but Kelly was really happy with the Lucky pairing and after the hit her character took for Jiz and the hate she received back in 2007 I don't think she wanted to go right back to SBu/Jason(who would)

Kelly seemed like she liked that Sam wasn't all about Jason. 

[HeatLifer]

14 hours ago, ulkis said:

So this is backstage history, I hope that's okay. I keep reading that Liason was failing so Burton went to Guza and asked him to put him back in Jasam. 

Is this true? That Liason was tanking so badly, I mean.I just have a hard time believing Liason was outright failing, they had a large fanbase. Also, I don't really buy Guza was ever too serious about Liz and Jason, Steve B. asking to get out of it or not.

KeMo stayed. KeMo >>>>>>>>> BH. The end.

[ulkis]

1 hour ago, HeatLifer said:

KeMo stayed. KeMo >>>>>>>>> BH. The end.

When did KeMo actually re-sign though? 2007? Liason got engaged for a hot minute at the in 2008, right?

[coffee drinker]

7 hours ago, Jazzy24 said:

I don't remember Kelly wanting Jason/Sam back, from what I heard Lucky/Sam were received more with the audience than the writers thought they would be and Kelly and Greg were happy with the pairing. 

I don't know about the backstage politics and power play but Kelly was really happy with the Lucky pairing and after the hit her character took for Jiz and the hate she received back in 2007 I don't think she wanted to go right back to SBu/Jason(who would)

Kelly seemed like she liked that Sam wasn't all about Jason. 

Eh, there were stories of the joint appearances that GV and KMo did together that turned into J/S events with KMo and her stans taking over.  Rumors that Gv wasn't happy with it.  

[coffee drinker]

8 hours ago, Jazzy24 said:

I don't remember Kelly wanting Jason/Sam back, from what I heard Lucky/Sam were received more with the audience than the writers thought they would be and Kelly and Greg were happy with the pairing. 

I don't know about the backstage politics and power play but Kelly was really happy with the Lucky pairing and after the hit her character took for Jiz and the hate she received back in 2007 I don't think she wanted to go right back to SBu/Jason(who would)

Kelly seemed like she liked that Sam wasn't all about Jason. 

Kelly said lots of things.  She has openly stated that J/S saved her role on the show.  

[ulkis]

15 minutes ago, coffee drinker said:

Kelly said lots of things.  She has openly stated that J/S saved her role on the show.  

She meant when she first started. By the time Lusam happened Sam was popular on the show.

[stlbf]

11 hours ago, Darklazr said:

BS.  Liason is very popular.   It wasn't until Frons got his greasy hands on GH is when Guza had to stop his Liason 2002 story and pushed Elizabeth out for Courtney and finally Sam.

Yup. Frons got involved in 2002 and they damn near literally destroyed Liason one day to pair SkipperBitch with St. Jasus the next. I remember actually saying, what the fuck is happening here? God, I hate SkipperBitch. To this day. I wish that somehow anyone else in the world was Spencer's biological mother. I am willing to go Helena lengths on strains of belief for that to happen. Emily. Liz. Sarah Webber. Lydia. Robin. Any woman. Not kidding.

BH is useful for her chemistry with her co-stars. But not useful enough for the show actually write for. And it is maddening to me. The girl tries her damnedest to make what little they give her to work. And they try to dump her time and time again. The woman has shown herself to be a good company girl, but TIIC keep on treating her like a dayplayer.

I just don't get it.

[coffee drinker]

5 hours ago, stlbf said:

Yup. Frons got involved in 2002 and they damn near literally destroyed Liason one day to pair SkipperBitch with St. Jasus the next. I remember actually saying, what the fuck is happening here? God, I hate SkipperBitch. To this day. I wish that somehow anyone else in the world was Spencer's biological mother. I am willing to go Helena lengths on strains of belief for that to happen. Emily. Liz. Sarah Webber. Lydia. Robin. Any woman. Not kidding.

BH is useful for her chemistry with her co-stars. But not useful enough for the show actually write for. And it is maddening to me. The girl tries her damnedest to make what little they give her to work. And they try to dump her time and time again. The woman has shown herself to be a good company girl, but TIIC keep on treating her like a dayplayer.

I just don't get it.

Guza apparently said in an interview he was always going to do Jason/DockHo (regardless of Frons thoughts) because it provided "angst" for Sason.  Don't know how accurate that information is .  

8 hours ago, ulkis said:

She meant when she first started. By the time Lusam happened Sam was popular on the show.

And?  She knew which side her bread was buttered on.  It wasn't with GV.  

*shrug*

[UYI]

Yeah, I'm not sure I believe the idea that Jason/SWSNBN were something Guza really wanted--Megan McTavish created her, and everything I heard was that Frons all but forced Guza to write for her/Journey with a gun to his head (despite whatever power Guza gradually gained over JFP once he came back). In fact, didn't ALW leave in part because she and Guza (and I think her mother/manager got dragged into this, too) had some particularly bad disagreements with each other over story? Or is that just a fever dream in my head? 

[Jazzy24]

On 5/5/2017 at 11:09 PM, ulkis said:

So this is backstage history, I hope that's okay. I keep reading that Liason was failing so Burton went to Guza and asked him to put him back in Jasam. 

Is this true? That Liason was tanking so badly, I mean.I just have a hard time believing Liason was outright failing, they had a large fanbase. Also, I don't really buy Guza was ever too serious about Liz and Jason, Steve B. asking to get out of it or not.

I don't think Jiz tanked that bad but I do think the pairing received more backlash than anyone thought they would. 

By all accounts Jason and Liz should have worked, they had everything going for them like history, a good soapy story, okay actors and people saw chemistry(I didn't but people did)I just think the way the writers got to Jiz pissed many off and that's why there was backlash. GH fans were loud years ago and I think the haters were louder than the fans. 

[jsbt]

Jason/Courtney was a Frons directive. Guza sidelined then wasted her first chance he got.

Edited May 8, 2017 by jsbt

[WendyCR72]

There is a RUMOR (can't stress that enough) that one of the old blind items in the now-defunct Soap Opera Weekly talked about focus groups about a front-burner pairing that was surprisingly not going over well with focus groups. At the time, it was insinuated to be Liz and Jason.

Now, being a BI makes it sort of iffy, but considering the state of the show even then. Well, I guess we'll never know either way.

[Melgaypet]

Ah, the infamous "focus groups." I always suspected that was code for Frons.

[WendyCR72]

And to be fair, when Liz and Jason finally did the deed and got together and conceived Jake, I can believe they had backlash that time because three other pairings - all also popular at the time - (Liz/Lucky, Ric/Alexis, Jason/Sam) seemed to be destroyed to make Liz and Jason feasible. So IF they did fail that time, well...it's easy when you have three other vocal fan bases pissed off, too.

[TeeVee329]

On ‎5‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 1:44 AM, stlbf said:

Yup. Frons got involved in 2002 and they damn near literally destroyed Liason one day to pair SkipperBitch with St. Jasus the next.

I don't remember the Liz part, but if anyone got destroyed to make that pairing happen, it was AJ, again, some more.

[ulkis]

Quote

(Warning UO: JaSam never should have had kids).

@HeatLifer

It's not that I felt Jasam should have never had kids (although, yeah, ideally, the hitman/ex-hitman should probably not have kids), it's just that I always felt cynical about Sam's wanting a kid. It felt very much like Guza's mindset was probably like, "okay, well, now I gotta give Kelly Monaco something to do while Jason does cool mob stuff, I guess her wanting a baby and not being able to get one will be her story." It was baby rabies at its core, even though Guza was better at making it deeper.

[HeatLifer]

21 minutes ago, ulkis said:

@HeatLifer

It's not that I felt Jasam should have never had kids (although, yeah, ideally, the hitman/ex-hitman should probably not have kids), it's just that I always felt cynical about Sam's wanting a kid. It felt very much like Guza's mindset was probably like, "okay, well, now I gotta give Kelly Monaco something to do while Jason does cool mob stuff, I guess her wanting a baby and not being able to get one will be her story." It was baby rabies at its core, even though Guza was better at making it deeper.

I also think the natural progression of Jason, as long as he was involved with the mob, should have been to recognize his mistakes and to not repeat them.