These Spoilers Suck: Bitter Speculation About SPN Spoilers

[NougatJack]

5 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Sam, Dean and Cas killed monsters (and the occasional monstrous human). Nougat boy is a monster.

They killed enough innocent humans who were possessed by demons instead of exorcice the demons. Sam killed innocent people when he was soulless, and Cas has been mass murdering fellow angels when he has been playing God. So they are monsters too. 

[gonzosgirrl]

22 minutes ago, NougatJack said:

They killed enough innocent humans who were possessed by demons instead of exorcice the demons. Sam killed innocent people when he was soulless, and Cas has been mass murdering fellow angels when he has been playing God. So they are monsters too. 

Taking to appropriate thread.

[Smad]

1 hour ago, NougatJack said:

Jup, and Sam, Dean and Cas have killed many more people, so Jack fits very well in their little team. 

This is not how it works. What do S/D/C's actions have to do with Jack's own actions? A person needs to be judged on their own merit, not by comparison with others. Because comparison is nothing but an excuse. Jack has done his fair share of crap that needs to be addressed and dealt with instead of swept under the rug. And the blame should not be placed on someone else or excused with age or inexperience.

[Lemuria]

52 minutes ago, Smad said:

This is not how it works. What do S/D/C's actions have to do with Jack's own actions? A person needs to be judged on their own merit, not by comparison with others. Because comparison is nothing but an excuse. Jack has done his fair share of crap that needs to be addressed and dealt with instead of swept under the rug. And the blame should not be placed on someone else or excused with age or inexperience.

Can I like this 3,000?

Jack has not learned anything since he’s been on the show nor has he really tried to. But he’s been given a free pass for everything, so there’s really been no incentive for him to learn or mature. 

Nothing Dabb has said so far about season 15 gives me any hope that the character will improve in any way either  

Edited October 3, 2019 by Lemuria

[NougatJack]

1 hour ago, Smad said:

This is not how it works. What do S/D/C's actions have to do with Jack's own actions? A person needs to be judged on their own merit, not by comparison with others. Because comparison is nothing but an excuse. Jack has done his fair share of crap that needs to be addressed and dealt with instead of swept under the rug. And the blame should not be placed on someone else or excused with age or inexperience.

I agree, everybody should be responsible for his actions, and Jack's actions got him killed in the end. 

[Lemuria]

7 minutes ago, NougatJack said:

I agree, everybody should be responsible for his actions, and Jack's actions got him killed in the end. 

How?  He wasn’t taken out by God because of anything he did; Chuck wasn’t punishing him for his sins or selfishness. Chuck seemed more interested in manipulating the brothers, especially Dean. He certainly wasn’t afraid of Jack, since he disposed of the latter very easily. 

And apparently, he’s going to be forgiven pretty quickly next year. 

[gonzosgirrl]

16 minutes ago, NougatJack said:

I agree, everybody should be responsible for his actions, and Jack's actions got him killed in the end. 

Yes, but not in any way that was related to his deeds and actions. He got killed by a spiteful God, and leading up to that they made Dean (and to a much lesser extent, Sam) look bad for wanting him dead/locked away. ETA: ha, jinx @Lemuria

Spoiler

Not to mention that he's apparently only Dabbernatural 'dead', as in not at all. And we've already been told that he's being forgiven his actions.

Edited October 3, 2019 by gonzosgirrl

[Smad]

17 minutes ago, NougatJack said:

I agree, everybody should be responsible for his actions, and Jack's actions got him killed in the end. 

I wouldn't even say his deaths are consequences of his wrong actions. God killed him but not for Jack's wrong doings. He burned off his soul stopping a bad guy and later died due to whatever was happening to his body because of it. So no, his deaths can't teach him anything about right/wrong because they weren't a consequence of his wrong doings. If his deaths were a direct result of him doing something wrong, then maybe he could learn from it. But it didn't even seem to teach him anything about the fragility of life and how precious it is, nervermind how wrong it is to take a life.

Edited October 3, 2019 by Smad

[ILoveReading]

Quote

SUPERNATURAL 15.03 “The Rupture”: Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) together with Rowena (guest star Ruth Connell) work tirelessly to keep all of hell from breaking loose. Castiel (Misha Collins) cannot forgive an arrogant betrayal. Charles Beeson directed the episode written by Robert Berens.

This could get ugly if the who Cas thing plays out like i think it will.

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

This could get ugly if the who Cas thing plays out like i think it will.

So, given the title is The Rupture, which I would bet a bottom dollar is a play on the Rapture...that Castiel will break with Dean and Sam over Jack and that will end their entire relationship.  Which is really going to piss me off in a number of ways. That's my spec.

[Myrelle]

4 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

This could get ugly if the who Cas thing plays out like i think it will.

Yeah the "arrogant betrayal" part means that someone is going to have to grovel for forgiveness at some point, and this is a Berens episode.

Oh joy.  Can't wait to see who that might be. 🙄🤮

*sigh*...One more year...

[ahrtee]

12 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

Yeah the "arrogant betrayal" part means that someone is going to have to grovel for forgiveness at some point, and this is a Berens episode.

Oh joy.  Can't wait to see who that might be. 🙄🤮

*sigh*...One more year...

Actually, 20 more weeks (spread out over 7 months).  14 hours.  840 more minutes in total.    

Edited October 4, 2019 by ahrtee
Math. It's your friend.

[Aeryn13]

39 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

Yeah the "arrogant betrayal" part means that someone is going to have to grovel for forgiveness at some point, and this is a Berens episode.

Oh joy.  Can't wait to see who that might be. 🙄🤮

*sigh*...One more year...

Tiny hope it means Chuck. But yeah...

[Lady Calypso]

It seems like some of the discussions is veering away from spoilers and veering toward past actions. Let's keep the discussion about spoilers only. Any other discussions should be taken to their appropriate topics. Thanks!

[PAForrest]

18 hours ago, catrox14 said:

So, given the title is The Rupture, which I would bet a bottom dollar is a play on the Rapture...that Castiel will break with Dean and Sam over Jack and that will end their entire relationship.  Which is really going to piss me off in a number of ways. That's my spec.

Well, they always have to come up with a scenario to send Cas away for a while, so him being all bitchy with Dean about whatever seems just the Berens/Dabb ticket. And yes, I'm sure it's supposed to be a play on The Rapture.

So I'm sure this is exactly what's going to happen. Bored already.

Edited October 4, 2019 by PAForrest

[gonzosgirrl]

Sigh. I loathe pretty much every word of this. Dabb is delusional, and IMO, remains the worst thing that ever happened to the show. With every fiber of my being, I hate that he is the one to take it out. H A T E.

And none of it more than this:

Quote

This also will allow the show to return to some of its roots in the conversation around free will, which, Dabb points out, “has been largely an illusion, so the question is, how do they reclaim it really for the first time?”

Erasing all the sacrifice, all the pain, all the good and all the bad of 11+ years (sorry, I'm already practicing pretending S12 onward didn't happen). How can Jensen and Jared even look at this guy?

[Aeryn13]

He is really trying to retcon the good Seasons of the show out of existance and say only his crap ending really matters. Don't know where he gets that big ego from. He has accomplished nothing to warrant it.

Also, at some point Chuck will be at full power? Where is he at now, half power?

Let me guess that stupid gun transferred some god power to Sam and that's how they manage to get out of the cliffhanger, kinda-God-Sam? 

[gonzosgirrl]

5 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Let me guess that stupid gun transferred some god power to Sam and that's how they manage to get out of the cliffhanger, kinda-God-Sam? 

Ugh. It would explain Jared's enthusiasm, but ugh.

[Aeryn13]

Just now, gonzosgirrl said:

Ugh. It would explain Jared's enthusiasm, but ugh.

I've been expecting something like this since the moment that stupid transference shot happened. If Dean had taken it, no, but since Sam did it? Seems plausible.

[gonzosgirrl]

36 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I've been expecting something like this since the moment that stupid transference shot happened. If Dean had taken it, no, but since Sam did it? Seems plausible.

I wonder if it will be some kind of "mark" similar to the MOC, that will be the key to the lock with which they defeat Chuck. Locking him away as he did with Amara, thus the 'balance' can be maintained (the same as it was when it was Amara locked up) and Sam will be doomed/destined to carry the mark forever. I can see Jared loving that ending, while Jensen found it to be wtf.

And it will restore the 'balance' to the Sam-has-to-do/get-everything-Dean does, too.

[Aeryn13]

13 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I wonder if it will be some kind of "mark" similar to the MOC, that will be the key to the lock with which they defeat Chuck. Locking him away as he did with Amara, thus the 'balance' can be maintained (the same as it was when it was Amara locked up) and Sam will be doomed/destined to carry the mark forever. I can see Jared loving that ending, while Jensen found it to be wtf.

And it will restore the 'balance' to the Sam-has-to-do/get-everything-Dean does, too.

Sounds plausible and dreadful. Though I wonder how it squares away with "they have peace at the end" from Jared. 

[Maren]

9 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

This also will allow the show to return to some of its roots in the conversation around free will, which, Dabb points out, “has been largely an illusion, so the question is, how do they reclaim it really for the first time?”

I just don't get it. Dabb is basically erasing what is arguably the first (or second) biggest theme of this show "free will" and undoing the entire show during it's FINAL SEASON and they're just letting him?!?!?!? Why isn't anyone putting their foot down about this? Ugh. It's just infuriating. And I totally agree, it's so disheartening that THIS is the person in charge of the show in it's final season. 

[ILoveReading]

Quote

: "The energy gun, crafted by God, visits upon the shooter the same injuries suffered by the target...Later, Sam's wound will bring him both anguish and mysterious revelations."

From someone who read the tv guide article. 

So yup.  Sam gets powers. 

This season sounds worse and worse.

[Aeryn13]

2 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

From someone who read the tv guide article. 

So yup.  Sam gets powers. 

This season sounds worse and worse.

Wow, I knew it. Sam gets God-powers and thus be the primary figure of the entire God arc. 

[gonzosgirrl]

15 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

From someone who read the tv guide article. 

So yup.  Sam gets powers. 

This season sounds worse and worse.

There had to be some reason Jared was so excited by the new season. Blech.

Willing to bet real money that resolution won't be handed off to a "B" character (nor have multiple other actors playing the part).

I loathe Dabb.

Edited October 8, 2019 by gonzosgirrl

[PAForrest]

21 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

From someone who read the tv guide article. 

So yup.  Sam gets powers. 

This season sounds worse and worse.

🤮

So Samantha has powers, Jackie Sue has powers, Cas has powers, and Dean ... is stuck holding three capes because being human with no powers is once again a lowly useless role in this 'verse.

Be honest, Jensen, when you said not everyone will be happy, you meant your fans, right?

Edited October 8, 2019 by PAForrest

[Aeryn13]

I bet the TV Guide article had zero mention of something for Dean.

[gonzosgirrl]

10 minutes ago, PAForrest said:

🤮

So Samantha has powers, Jackie Sue has powers, Cas has powers, and Dean ... is stuck holding three capes because being human with no powers is once again a lowly useless role in this 'verse.

Be honest, Jensen, when you said not everyone will be happy, you meant your fans, right?

Uhhuh. And he'll be holding Cas's cape whilst on his knees begging forgiveness for daring to be pissed off over his mother's murder.

[ILoveReading]

15 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I bet the TV Guide article had zero mention of something for Dean.

Just that its a good thing he didn't fire the gun because he'd be dead. 

That would be preferable at this point.

[Aeryn13]

3 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Just that its a good thing he didn't fire the gun because he'd be dead. 

That would be preferable at this point.

Why would he be dead? Sam isn't dead.

Though, yes, preferable than a slow, drawn-out death.

[NougatJack]

55 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Why would he be dead? Sam isn't dead.

Though, yes, preferable than a slow, drawn-out death.

Because Jack would‘nt survive a shot of this gun, so the shooter (Dean) would die too. Sam shot Chuck, and Chuck survived because well, he‘s god. So the shooter survived as well.

[Bobcatkitten]

They can have powers. One of the reasons I love Dean is that he is human and still the most badass hunter, loyal brother and friend. 

Edited October 8, 2019 by Bobcatkitten

[Aeryn13]

8 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

They can have powers. One of the reasons I love Dean is that he is human and still the most badass hunter, loyal brother and friend. 

He couldn`t hang onto a story last Season when he had a supernatural tie, if he is the only one without powers and more importantly Sam is specifically tied to their Seasonal Big Bad God, then Dean will get some background fluff and comedy relief at the expense of the character. 

How can he be a badass hunter if Sam, Jack (or even Cas though that rarely happens) just waves their hands and deals with it? And I don`t give a fuck about the "loyal brother and friend" one-way-street.   

[ILoveReading]

On my phone so I can't post a link, but I saw some more snippets.

Dean will face a personal crises about whether they are pawns and it will be up to Sam to get him out of his funk.  So Sam gets to be the wind beneath Deans' wings too.  So Dabb lied about Dean being the one to not believe God.

Plus, there is also a quote that Sam kills a witch with magic. 

Ugh.

[Aeryn13]

16 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

On my phone so I can't post a link, but I saw some more snippets.

Dean will face a personal crises about whether they are pawns and it will be up to Sam to get him out of his funk.  So Sam gets to be the wind beneath Deans' wings too.  So Dabb lied about Dean being the one to not believe God.

Plus, there is also a quote that Sam kills a witch with magic. 

Ugh.

Oh, great. Now Sam is a God-witch? 

That first one doesn`t even make sense. Both Jared and Jensen said the opposite at the Comic Con roundtable interviews. WTF?

Read it, too, now.  They completely switched that around. 

And apparently a spell flings useless human Dean into the floor and Sam summons "all the strength and magic and vanquishes the witch in one impressive take". 

THAT is how the scenes will look like with a human among super-folks. 

Edited October 8, 2019 by Aeryn13

[gonzosgirrl]

42 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Oh, great. Now Sam is a God-witch? 

That first one doesn`t even make sense. Both Jared and Jensen said the opposite at the Comic Con roundtable interviews. WTF?

Read it, too, now.  They completely switched that around. 

And apparently a spell flings useless human Dean into the floor and Sam summons "all the strength and magic and vanquishes the witch in one impressive take". 

THAT is how the scenes will look like with a human among super-folks. 

Shades of Red Meat Super-Sam.

Have I mentioned how very  much I hate Dabb? 

43 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

That first one doesn`t even make sense. Both Jared and Jensen said the opposite at the Comic Con roundtable interviews. WTF?

Wouldn't be the first time Dabb & Co lied to Jensen about a storyline. Thank God it will be the last. 

[Aeryn13]

2 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Shades of Red Meat Super-Sam.

Have I mentioned how very  much I hate Dabb? 

Wouldn't be the first time Dabb & Co lied to Jensen about a storyline. Thank God it will be the last. 

I agree. But I specifically remember Jared going on and on at Comic Con how Sam felt down in the dumps about them being God`s playthings. And him, Dabb wouldn`t lie to. 

Now it`s the complete opposite.

Also, I seriously can`t believe they didn`t come out with their new super-power-Sam at Comic Con. After dreading it from the Finale, I expected it at Comic Con so had a little bit of hope they didn`t spoil it all over the place. Well, hope dashed. 

Oh, and in terms of tiny, tiny favours, that "arrogant betrayal" Cas can`t get over is apparently Chuck. 

[PAForrest]

25 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Oh, and in terms of tiny, tiny favours, that "arrogant betrayal" Cas can`t get over is apparently Chuck. 

Yeah, that's the one bright spot so far - that Berens and Dabb aren't blatantly throwing Dean under the bus for the umpteenth time as the catalyst for Cas bolting again. Small mercies.

I like that Dean is human too - that's why he's the most relatable character. Unfortunately with this show humans aren't applauded or held up as that which to aspire to. It's what the show should be about, but that narrative was thrown out in the eleventh hour at the end of season five and pretty much stayed gone ever since.

And Dabb is worse because for him it's all about good monsters (Bloodlines) and angels and nephilims, oh my. Remember his bad guy is God, and apparently God has been pulling the strings all along - therefore, no free will, the puny humans have accomplished zip, zero, nada on their own this whole time anyway.

Dabb has no interest whatsoever in the human story.

Edited October 8, 2019 by PAForrest

[Aeryn13]

Has anyone read the quote of the day for episode 8 of Season 5 on twitter? Can't link right now but 100 bucks say it refers to super-Sam.

Now if Chuck gets full powers back, at some point hopefully Sam will lose godhood. But I guess only at halfway point. And then the story will shift to something that still makes him a primary character for God. Wonder now how that Darkness possession comes in. That was clearly a slip of the tongue.

Oh, and it looks like ep 8 will be the one where Adam returns. Probably a big guilt-fest for Dean.

[Smad]

53 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Now if Chuck gets full powers back, at some point hopefully Sam will lose godhood. But I guess only at halfway point. And then the story will shift to something that still makes him a primary character for God. Wonder now how that Darkness possession comes in. That was clearly a slip of the tongue.

So Sam gets a plot with both God powers (which is so nonsensical only Dabb can come up with it) and Darkness possession? F this crap. Why is Jensen even in this Season? First they resurrect Mary FOR Dean and he gets nothing from that. Then they bring Charlie back in AU form and throw her onto Sam when the entire connection was between Charlie and Dean. And now the Darkness, the one thing that should so be Dean's, also gets transferred to Sam? What with the what?

Oh well, at least Jensen gets to hang out with CK for a few days. Guess that's all he gets this Season. Dean gets even less it seems.

Edited October 8, 2019 by Smad

[DeeDee79]

On 10/3/2019 at 9:49 PM, catrox14 said:

So, given the title is The Rupture, which I would bet a bottom dollar is a play on the Rapture...that Castiel will break with Dean and Sam over Jack and that will end their entire relationship.  Which is really going to piss me off in a number of ways. That's my spec.

Thankfully from what I've been reading ( mostly on Tumblr ) Cas is angry with Chuck and angsty that his relationship with the Winchesters ( mostly Dean from what I've read ) is strained after Mary's death. It sounds like it won't be a blame Dean situation ( for once ) and more sad sack Cas instead. 

[Myrelle]

These spoilers just sound like we're going to get a redux of s4/5 only condensed into one season because it's the last one.

My worst fear come to life for the last season of this show.

 Oh joy. 

Can't wait.  🙄

[Myrelle]

They're not even allowing Dean to hold on to his belief in their "free will"-and yes, IA that that appears to be something that was completely changed/reversed as regards the brothers from the comic con interviews.

[juppschmitz]

11 hours ago, DeeDee79 said:

Thankfully from what I've been reading ( mostly on Tumblr ) Cas is angry with Chuck and angsty that his relationship with the Winchesters ( mostly Dean from what I've read ) is strained after Mary's death. It sounds like it won't be a blame Dean situation ( for once ) and more sad sack Cas instead. 

So is he going to do "regrettable things" in an attempt to atone? 🤔

[juppschmitz]

Sam couldn't even handle the responsibility of managing a bunch of hunters a while back, and now they give him "godlike" powers? Oh, well...

[PAForrest]

9 hours ago, Myrelle said:

They're not even allowing Dean to hold on to his belief in their "free will"-and yes, IA that that appears to be something that was completely changed/reversed as regards the brothers from the comic con interviews.

I've completely forgotten, I admit, but was it originally stated that Dean was supposed to be the one to hold onto the concept of free will? If that's really true, what the hell happened? Did Dabb come back from Comic Con and think to himself, 'Oh dear, I've accidentally allowed Dean to have a little agency this last season - REWRITE!!!!! No story for you, Dean!'

I mean, all Dabb's disinterest-hatred of Dean is going to do is make me leave the show despising the other characters, especially Sam. I'd like to remember the show if for nothing else - aside from Jensen's relentless straw into gold portrayal of Dean - thinking fondly of the Winchester brother team. But that's not going to happen if Dabb is going to spend this last season crapping all over the lead he doesn't like.

Edited October 9, 2019 by PAForrest
addition

[DeeDee79]

12 minutes ago, juppschmitz said:

So is he going to do "regrettable things" in an attempt to atone? 🤔

Probably. That's usually what Cas does.

[PAForrest]

4 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

Probably. That's usually what Cas does.

It certainly doesn't sound like Cas fares any better than Dean. How much mopier can Cas really get? Isn't that his default now? Then again, I didn't think Cas would go any other way, so it's not a surprise.

I was going to try and snag a copy of the pretty-pretty Jensen cover of this mag because, well, pretty. But once again the article turns me off so much that the pretty isn't worth it. Sad. OTOH, happy wallet.

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, PAForrest said:

It certainly doesn't sound like Cas fares any better than Dean. How much mopier can Cas really get? Isn't that his default now? Then again, I didn't think Cas would go any other way, so it's not a surprise.

The funny part is, they've written it into canon that if Cas does get happy, he dies. Doesn't get much more bottom line than that.

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

The funny part is, they've written it into canon that if Cas does get happy, he dies. Doesn't get much more bottom line than that.

It seems to me that Billie could intervene here because she is there with Jack and the Empty Keeper. And Jack knew about his deal. Seems to me Jack could tell Billie to handle that matter. Heck couldnt she just kill the empty keeper which would nullify the deal anyway?