These Spoilers Suck: Bitter Speculation About SPN Spoilers

[ILoveReading]

1 hour ago, PAForrest said:

My only question is why the guys didn't become involved like they said they wanted to in order to insure the final season was about the brothers and that there was some justice done to the story? Did they say that before talking to Dabb and Singer, and those guys told then to go to hell? Did they decide before it all started that they really didn't give a damn after all? What happened there?

I remember a story Jensen told at a con.  He said Dabb asked them for a list of people they'd like to see back.  Jensen made a list and then said what was the point since Dabb does what he wants anyway. 

My guess is that they figured it would just be a waste of their time. 

[Myrelle]

14 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

BONUS SPOILER!: Jack is still in The Empty when Season 15 starts, and “he’s not coming back in the near future,” Dabb reveals

This is such a joke.

4 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I remember a story Jensen told at a con.  He said Dabb asked them for a list of people they'd like to see back.  Jensen made a list and then said what was the point since Dabb does what he wants anyway. 

My guess is that they figured it would just be a waste of their time. 

And I clearly remember this, too.

It's the main reason that I never felt as if they would actually be involved in the writing/storytelling at all.

This and the idea that they've never had any real power in that area at all, exceptions being in contract years, of course-which is over now, of course. 

I've pretty much accepted the thought(in my own mind, anyway)that s11 gave us the end of Supernatural-albeit with Regarding Dean of s12 being the actual good-bye episode for the show after which Dabbernatural took the timeslot.

It really is all just very sad for me at this point.

I'll watch to see what Jensen can do with the now usual dross that these writers give us, but hope for anything great in this last season diminishes more every time Dabb opens his mouth. 

Honestly? At this point, I wish it had ended last year and now I just want s15 to be done and over with ASAP and the season hasn't even started yet.

That's the most telling thing for me about the upcoming season because I can honestly say that this is a completely different and most unwelcome feeling for me concerning the show and one that I can again honestly say that I've never experienced before. 

[gonzosgirrl]

23 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

This is such a joke.

Re this:

Quote

BONUS SPOILER!: Jack is still in The Empty when Season 15 starts, and “he’s not coming back in the near future,” Dabb reveals

Is he really this stupid? Or does he think we are? Uhh, Dabb? We live in a world of social media. We've seen the photos. WTF are you even talking about?

51 minutes ago, auntvi said:

This part bothers me too. Sometimes I wish J2 weren't such good team players.

The paradox is, if they weren't, it probably a) wouldn't have lasted this long, and b) we wouldn't care about them enough to GAF.

I probably shouldn't have such visceral feelings about a person over a TV show, but I sincerely hope that Dabb never gets another job in television, at least not one in any position of power. And if he's merely Singer's and BuckLemming's puppet? All the more so.

[Jonesy]

Dabb is not saying it's all God and the boys are just puppets--as all interviewed at SDCC  said the boys and Cas come to the point even if Chuck was manipulating things it doesn't matter because when it mattered the boys were still heroic and they come to that conclusion with Cas's help after initial doubts...and Dabb's whole last season is about the the boys grabbing all the agency back...all of this is Dabb saluting the boys not saying Chuck did everything...the boys were amazing heroes despite Chuck.

[gonzosgirrl]

2 hours ago, Jakes said:

Dabb is not saying it's all God and the boys are just puppets--as all interviewed at SDCC  said the boys and Cas come to the point even if Chuck was manipulating things it doesn't matter because when it mattered the boys were still heroic and they come to that conclusion with Cas's help after initial doubts...and Dabb's whole last season is about the the boys grabbing all the agency back...all of this is Dabb saluting the boys not saying Chuck did everything...the boys were amazing heroes despite Chuck.

If this is what makes it to the screen, I will be satisfied. I will believe it when the credits roll on 15x20.

[ILoveReading]

2 hours ago, Jakes said:

Dabb is not saying it's all God and the boys are just puppets--as all interviewed at SDCC  said the boys and Cas come to the point even if Chuck was manipulating things it doesn't matter because when it mattered the boys were still heroic and they come to that conclusion with Cas's help after initial doubts...and Dabb's whole last season is about the the boys grabbing all the agency back...all of this is Dabb saluting the boys not saying Chuck did everything...the boys were amazing heroes despite Chuck.

Dabb said the Winchester realize that they were in for an existential crisis when they realize they were doing it Chucks way.  And that reclaiming agency was a big part of the season.  If the whole of last season was reclaiming agency, then it doesn't make sense that they would have to do it again this season.  

He said at comic con they werer supposed to argue over whether it was them or God.  But Dabb said a lot of stuff at comic con last year that didn't play out.  From what he said than and this interview is a complete 180.  So my guess is that the brothers argue over it it one and Chuck confirms it was all him in two.

Dabb isn't subtle.  He doesn't know how to actually tell a story without giving away everything upfront.

Edited September 5, 2019 by ILoveReading

[NougatJack]

14 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Re this:

Is he really this stupid? Or does he think we are? Uhh, Dabb? We live in a world of social media. We've seen the photos. WTF are you even talking about?

These photos with Jensen and Alex together? Could be scenes from heaven. Maybe the boys haven‘t survived the zombies, and they see Jack in Heaven. Hmm, that could also be the reason why he has his eyes burnt off. The boys see him that way cos they saw him die with those holes instead of his eyes. So Jack wouldn‘t be real in the first few episodes.

[gonzosgirrl]

8 hours ago, NougatJack said:

These photos with Jensen and Alex together? Could be scenes from heaven. Maybe the boys haven‘t survived the zombies, and they see Jack in Heaven. Hmm, that could also be the reason why he has his eyes burnt off. The boys see him that way cos they saw him die with those holes instead of his eyes. So Jack wouldn‘t be real in the first few episodes.

Except Jack is a supernatural creature and he's in The Empty, not heaven.  One more inconsistent thing about Dabbernatural - Jack going to 'heaven' when he 'died' the first time last season. I can't believe I can even type that sentence about a show I watch.

I'd say it's more likely that Dabb & Co aren't paying enough attention to anyone's writing but their own and don't even realize how little sense it makes on the whole.

[Aeryn13]

Jack is obviously back right away. Dabb is lying worse than JJ "Khan is not in Star Trek Into Darkness" Abrams. At least when the latter lied, the "I am Khan" scene wasn't playing on a giant monitor behind him. Dabb and his "spoilers" are so late, the truth has come out way before he even spouts this nonsense.

Also ironic that he bothers when it concerns Jack. Normally he spoils everything right away. Like with Michael last year, he made sure to come right out and nix any intrigue of the storyline  by revealing it would lead to nothing. Guess Jackie-poo's story is different.

[NougatJack]

34 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Except Jack is a supernatural creature and he's in The Empty, not heaven.  One more inconsistent thing about Dabbernatural - Jack going to 'heaven' when he 'died' the first time last season. I can't believe I can even type that sentence about a show I watch.

I'd say it's more likely that Dabb & Co aren't paying enough attention to anyone's writing but their own and don't even realize how little sense it makes on the whole.

I think you got me wrong. I know he is in the empty. 

The Jack in heaven wouldn't be the real Jack, just like when he was in heaven, he saw Sam and Dean, despite Sam and Dean being alive on earth. 

And Jack was in heaven the first time he died because he was more human at this time, having a soul and no grace, now he is in the empty because he has a grace counts as an angel. 

[gonzosgirrl]

28 minutes ago, NougatJack said:

I think you got me wrong. I know he is in the empty. 

The Jack in heaven wouldn't be the real Jack, just like when he was in heaven, he saw Sam and Dean, despite Sam and Dean being alive on earth. 

And Jack was in heaven the first time he died because he was more human at this time, having a soul and no grace, now he is in the empty because he has a grace counts as an angel. 

That would be convoluted, even for Dabbernatural. And I disagree that Jack belongs in heaven - even without grace, he's the spawn of Lucifer, a product of Satan raping a human female. He grew from infant to adult in a matter of hours (minutes?). He's not human.

[NougatJack]

46 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

That would be convoluted, even for Dabbernatural. And I disagree that Jack belongs in heaven - even without grace, he's the spawn of Lucifer, a product of Satan raping a human female. He grew from infant to adult in a matter of hours (minutes?). He's not human.

He‘s a special case, yes he is the son of Lucifer, but also the son of a human mom.  

So he‘s as much human as he‘s archangel, I think. 

[gonzosgirrl]

2 hours ago, NougatJack said:

He‘s a special case, yes he is the son of Lucifer, but also the son of a human mom.  

So he‘s as much human as he‘s archangel, I think. 

He's still a supernatural being. Vampires were human once and don't get into heaven. Even angels don't- they go to the Empty. Nothing in canon allows for Jack to go to heaven. 

[ahrtee]

55 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

He's still a supernatural being. Vampires were human once and don't get into heaven. Even angels don't- they go to the Empty. Nothing in canon allows for Jack to go to heaven. 

What actually goes to heaven (or hell) is the human soul.   Souls either go up or down; and once in hell they get twisted into something evil.  I guess we can assume that vampires or werewolves or any humans who were "turned" into supernatural creatures had their souls changed into something no longer human, and that's why they wind up in Purgatory.  (Does that mean that humans with no souls--like Amara's victims--wind up in the Empty or just cease to exist anywhere?)  

Angels have no souls so they wind up in the Empty.  I don't know if an angel's grace dies with him/her and therefore they are literally "empty" or if their grace goes with them. 

Canon seems to imply soul and grace as two separate things, not interconnected, so in theory, Jack's soul (if it still exists) should have the chance to go to heaven or hell no matter what happens to his grace (though he shouldn't automatically be destined for heaven, based on his past actions.  After all, we know where "good intentions" lead.)  But that would mean he'd be purely human in heaven; after all, he wouldn't actually "die" unless his grace was gone, too.

Edited September 6, 2019 by ahrtee
Clarifying.

[gonzosgirrl]

13 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

What actually goes to heaven (or hell) is the human soul.   Souls either go up or down; and once in hell they get twisted into something evil.  I guess we can assume that vampires or werewolves or any humans who were "turned" into supernatural creatures had their souls changed into something no longer human, and that's why they wind up in Purgatory.  (Does that mean that humans with no souls--like Amara's victims--wind up in the Empty or just cease to exist anywhere?)  

Angels have no souls so they wind up in the Empty.  I don't know if an angel's grace dies with him/her and therefore they are literally "empty" or if their grace goes with them. 

Canon seems to imply soul and grace as two separate things, not interconnected, so in theory, Jack's soul (if it still exists) should have the chance to go to heaven or hell no matter what happens to his grace (though he shouldn't automatically be destined for heaven, based on his past actions.  After all, we know where "good intentions" lead.)  But that would mean he'd be purely human in heaven; after all, he wouldn't actually "die" unless his grace was gone, too.

I'll just never accept that Jack's soul was or is human, not even partially. 

ETA for what it's worth,  I never considered Cas to be human after the fall, either. His body was a vessel presumably created by Chuck after Lucifer exploded Jimmy. IMO when Metatron drained his grace, he should've ceased to exist.

Edited September 6, 2019 by gonzosgirrl

[ahrtee]

28 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I'll just never accept that Jack's soul was or is human, not even partially. 

ETA for what it's worth,  I never considered Cas to be human after the fall, either. His body was a vessel presumably created by Chuck after Lucifer exploded Jimmy. IMO when Metatron drained his grace, he should've ceased to exist.

Moving to the WTFery thread, since we're OT from spoilers.

Edited September 6, 2019 by ahrtee

[catrox14]

17 hours ago, NougatJack said:

These photos with Jensen and Alex together? Could be scenes from heaven. Maybe the boys haven‘t survived the zombies, and they see Jack in Heaven. Hmm, that could also be the reason why he has his eyes burnt off. The boys see him that way cos they saw him die with those holes instead of his eyes. So Jack wouldn‘t be real in the first few episodes.

Why would Dean be wearing an FBI jacket in Heaven? That sure as hell wouldn't be his idea of Heaven IMO

[ILoveReading]

My speculation with Jack is one of 3 possibilities.

1. Dabb lied.

2. Dean is hallucinating him because he feels guilty(Which makes total sense because why wouldn't Dean feel guilty of over not saving the Nougat Sue Cinnamon Roll that killed his mother, and then still be mad at Cas.)  Dabb's character dynamics really make no sense.

3. Billy asked Jack to spy on Dean for whatever reason.  Because Jack is the A story and Dabb said  they would reveal what Billy asked of him over the course of the year.

[Casseiopeia]

28 minutes ago, PinkChicken said:

There's hardly anyone left that they really care about. Who exactly is supposed to be on the list of people "we never would have lost in the past"

Can we hope that Claire is on that list?

[ILoveReading]

Im guessing Ketch doesn't survive his episode.

[gonzosgirrl]

Didn't Dabb (or someone?) compare his vision with Game of Thrones? Makes me think everyone is dying - that's the kind of petty shit Dabb would write. As Pink Chicken said, (I believe) he's so bitter about his failed spin-off attempts that scorched earth is a real possibility. I'm sure as long as it done with feeeelings (read: cheap, manipulative death scenes) 'his' fandom will eat it up with a spoon. That's the world Dabb & Co live in on social media.

I think 'people they wouldn't have lost before' means Jody and Donna, possibly the girls. I doubt Kathryn Newton has time for SPN any more #sorrynotsorry but that still leaves Alex and Patience vulnerable.

[PAForrest]

27 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Didn't Dabb (or someone?) compare his vision with Game of Thrones? Makes me think everyone is dying - that's the kind of petty shit Dabb would write. As Pink Chicken said, (I believe) he's so bitter about his failed spin-off attempts that scorched earth is a real possibility. I'm sure as long as it done with feeeelings (read: cheap, manipulative death scenes) 'his' fandom will eat it up with a spoon. That's the world Dabb & Co live in on social media.

Well, for one that's pretty freaking delusional. And two, given the revulsion fans had for the final season of GoT, that's not even a little bit of a compliment.

[gonzosgirrl]

2 minutes ago, PAForrest said:

Well, for one that's pretty freaking delusional. And two, given the revulsion fans had for the final season of GoT, that's not even a little bit of a compliment.

I think what he (or whoever) was saying was exactly that - the reaction of SPN fans would be GOT-levels of hate. It was around the 30% comment. Definitely not something to boast about, but he's a weird guy.

[catrox14]

8 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

Billy asked Jack to spy on Dean for whatever reason.  Because Jack is the A story and Dabb said  they would reveal what Billy asked of him over the course of the year.

Which I guess means that Dean's chat with Billy about what he would need to do WRT to Michael seems to have been simply a set up for Jack killing Michael and ending up working with Billie instead.  I really have zero interest in Jack and his heaven shit unless it directly means that Sam and Dean become the A story again...and I don't see that happening at all.   

[Castiels Cat]

On 9/4/2019 at 11:33 PM, Cambion said:

Not even just this year.  I've been watching the early years again and it was so much better than the last couple years of aborted main plots and rambling no reason for them sub plots that take over the season.  My only hope is the attitude of you'll watch whatever I give you will work against those people and that in the end, they stay unemployed.  

Oh, and re this:

"Oh, I'm pretty sure the writers have no concept of subtlety.  I'm afraid it might be more like a comedy of incompetence:  the boys trying to fight and finding that they've lost their best moves, including missing easy shots and being too clumsy to fight without injuring themselves, so they have to relearn (from Jack and/or AU Bobby?)"

I will not be able to buy that whatsoever.  It's not a great predicament to put characters in who have been nearly unbeatable heroes for years (which of course means that's what will happen *eye roll*), AND it's just not believable that a marine with a bronze star trained them and they're only good cause Chuck thinks it would be funny?  Nah, my money is on Chuck, being the writer, threw them out just as he did in the supposedly countless other universes and with our version of Sam and Dean all the tumblers clicked and they stood out so Chuck took notice.  Cause if he really wanted them dead, BOOM!, lightening bolt.  No, he wants to throw as much sh*t at them as he can because they've already exceeded his expectations.  They've been the perfect product of the dice he threw when creating them and now he wants to see just how far they can go when he dumps everything on them.

But, the above will only exist in my mind, because I'm pretty sure this is not the kind of thing the writers would come up with, let alone do, cause they'd have to refrain from having the baby man save the day.  sigh

As Dean said, "how many opportunities has God [the writers] had to crack this pinata, and I don't see any candy on the floor, do you?"

Except Dean is on record as having been the only one to change Chuck's story. . .

He changed it as Chuck had written it in season 5 twice by Chuck's own admission in (MatEotB and SS). It is strongly intimated that Dean changed the ending of Chuck's story with Amara in season 11. Chuck shows up only when Dean calls him out and Dean himself chooses how it ends. In season 14 Dean again changes how Chuck's story will end by refusing to shoot Jack. These are 4 instances in which Dean exercises his free will over the wishes of the omnipotent God the Writer. 

Per Cas' backstory he has also refused to play bu the anglic rules however there is no record of him changing Chuck's story.

On 7/31/2019 at 10:29 AM, Aeryn13 said:

Thanks. That's just... I don't even know what to say. Even if God "possessed" Desn and they were going for some weird version of 5.22, just with thr brothers this time, it makes zero sense. At least it would include both brothers then.

And why does Jared say it in the context of "peace" for Sam? Does he permanently give up his body to Amara? And Dean to Chuck? Sure, if Sam and Dean were mind-wiped, they would have "peace". 

At least the placement of Michael/Lucifer as older/younger brother had some logic behind it. Chuck/Amara are not a sibling pair that really parallels the Winchesters.

If Dabb can't even mske the final episode equal among the bothers, like wow. The one episode of the show where that should be a given. The 11 Finale was obviously known to not be the Series Finale.

Could mean Sam dies.

[ILoveReading]

Quote

“God’s been pulling the strings behind the scenes, and now Sam and Dean are really trying to break free for the first time in their lives,” says co-showrunner Andrew Dabb..

So we haven't been watching Sam and Dean's stories for the last 15 years. 

We've been watching Chuck's because everything, from Dean's love of cheeseburgers to Sam saying yes to Lucifer has been Chuck's choice.

I loath Dabb more and more every day.

https://ew.com/tv/2019/09/11/supernatural-final-season-first-look-photo-jensen-ackles-jared-padalecki/?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_content=link&utm_term=5EC962CE-D4E6-11E9-8EAA-76B24744363C&utm_campaign=entertainmentweekly_ew

Quote

Could half-angel Jack... be resurrected and take him on?  (Refering to Chuck

So whoever said the Winchesters are going to  be sent off an busy work seems to be right on as this last season will revolve around Jack.

Also the car in the photo in from the Pilot ep, so it seems like Dabb really is going to kill off all the people they saved. 

Jared and Jensen went one season too long as Dabb has now undermined and made pointless the entire foundation of the show.

[catrox14]

5 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

So we haven't been watching Sam and Dean's stories for the last 15 years. 

We've been watching Chuck's because everything, from Dean's love of cheeseburgers to Sam saying yes to Lucifer has been Chuck's choice.

I loath Dabb more and more every day.

https://ew.com/tv/2019/09/11/supernatural-final-season-first-look-photo-jensen-ackles-jared-padalecki/?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_content=link&utm_term=5EC962CE-D4E6-11E9-8EAA-76B24744363C&utm_campaign=entertainmentweekly_ew

So whoever said the Winchesters are going to  be sent off an busy work seems to be right on as this last season will revolve around Jack.

Also the car in the photo in from the Pilot ep, so it seems like Dabb really is going to kill off all the people they saved. 

Jared and Jensen went one season too long as Dabb has now undermined and made pointless the entire foundation of the show.

I said a couple of seasons back that if Dabb Singer  et al didnt get WS that he would reengineer the mother ship to be the soinoff essentially and it would be about Jack and Lucifer (still think that asshole will be back).  It looks like he studied at the Sleepy Hollow school of how to destroy a show.

[Bobcatkitten]

Jensen killed it. Lots of talk about the fact that Jared pulled out of the same game a few days ago and instead showed up at a UFC fight right next door. I guess UFC won out of charity after people bought tickets to see them both. 

[Casseiopeia]

24 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

Jensen killed it. Lots of talk about the fact that Jared pulled out of the same game a few days ago and instead showed up at a UFC fight right next door. I guess UFC won out of charity after people bought tickets to see them both. 

From what I understand the UFC fight was some sort of CW event. Maybe that is why Jared went there and Jensen went to the soccer game. They were out with fans last night.

[gonzosgirrl]

30 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

From what I understand the UFC fight was some sort of CW event. Maybe that is why Jared went there and Jensen went to the soccer game. They were out with fans last night.

Going to Public Appearances thread.

Edited September 15, 2019 by gonzosgirrl
Wrong thread

[Wynne88]

Moved to Personal Appearances thread.

Edited September 15, 2019 by Wynne88
Posted in wrong thread.  Sorry!

[ILoveReading]

Moving to social media thread.  Sorry,  wrong thread.

Edited September 15, 2019 by ILoveReading
wrong thread

[Castiels Cat]

On 9/12/2019 at 11:04 AM, catrox14 said:

I said a couple of seasons back that if Dabb Singer  et al didnt get WS that he would reengineer the mother ship to be the soinoff essentially and it would be about Jack and Lucifer (still think that asshole will be back).  It looks like he studied at the Sleepy Hollow school of how to destroy a show.

The first season of Sleepy Hollow was so good. New show runner ruined it. Had a hard-on for Katrina and marginalized Abby and got rid of the mytharc that was supposed to last ch or seasons. Replaced it with family drama. 

Third season reboot still not right and then they kill her. I did not watch the ruth season.

Abby and Ichabod were magic. Like Skukky and Mulder. That kind of chemistry is so rare. And it was a fantastic genre show.

They destroyed it.

The new show runner had a hard-on for the witch. Completely changed the entire show. 

Inexplicable.

This was different. Ms. Singer never watched the show. Is not a genre writer and apparently is incapable of keeping track of the plotlines. It's a big problem. Her episodes were always tone deaf at best and rarely made any sense in terms of the season, especially with character development.

It became a bigger problem as she rose up in the ranks. Especially because she is Ms. Singer and no one can tell her anything like... um... reapers aren't Angel's. I imagine she gets her show information from Mr. Singer whose character knowledge has never progressed from the season 1 bullets.

Last season was unforgivable. They don't care. It's one thing not to care about rogue reapers or reapers being Angels or that it makes no sense that Cas was human after having his grace removed. It's as if they never think they just have cool ideas...

Summarily dropping Dean's one storyline that was his and about his character development... the only one he has had that has not beento save Sam or punish himself or ultimately to push Sam to do something. Yes Dean said yes to Michael to save Sam and Jack; that was his fatal flaw and fall. Therefore he needed to work through the arc himself and find his own redemption. There needed to be tragic consequences, remorse, growth, atonement.

Sam went through this after releasing the Darkness. Dean was robbed because despite connectimg the dots brilliantly from "Advanced Thanatology",in which they lay out the thesis that Dean makes reckless decisions to save Sam, to "Nihilism". In AT Death cryptically warns Dean that actions have consequences and in the latter episode she tells him exactly what those consequences are. 

What happened I'm "Ouroboros" defies logic and is the definition of insanity. They should be Ashamed. I hope Jensen pulled the plug as soon as he  saw that script. It is horrifically bad writing.

What happened to Sleepy Hollow was a new show runner without a clue. What happened to Supernatural is worse. Why was Singer allowed to hire his wife. Why are writers allowed to remain on the show if they do not watch it or understand the show's history or basic canon. A gente show which is typically mytharc driven. Eugenie was used to writing for a show which was just episodic drivel. If she could not be bothered fo adapt then she should not have been gired and she should not have been promoted.

[Cambion]

Eugenie was used to writing for a show which was just episodic drivel. If she could not be bothered fo adapt then she should not have been gired and she should not have been promoted.

Which, if you look in the dictionary, is the definition of nepotism.

[gonzosgirrl]

6 minutes ago, PAForrest said:

<snip>

Seeing as this is the second fan fav actor Jensen has helped to get on the show, I certainly hope it's a much better script for Dean than the 300th was.

Jensen seems pretty enthusiastic about all the returns and 'special guests' this season. My spec is he knows how bad Dabb & Co are going to butcher the story, and since they clearly weren't given the voice they'd hoped for in it,  has just resigned himself to enjoying working with his friends and past co-workers one last time. Something good might as well come of it.

[ILoveReading]

Quote

"Question: On Supernatural, Jack killed Sam and Dean’s mother, so every time they see him it will be a trigger. How does the show plan to deal with the tension that should exist between Sam, Dean and Jack? —Adder Ausiello: Since Jack won’t be coming back from The Empty in the near future, all those complicated feelings are something Sam and Dean will “deal with down the road,” co-showrunner Andrew Dabb previews. But when they do eventually confront them, “I think Dean understands that Jack was manipulated [by God],” Dabb muses. “Very clearly what God wanted to happen was Jack kills Mary, [and] the guys get so mad they kill Jack. So whose fault is it really? Is it Jack’s fault? Is it God’s fault? I’m not saying they’re going to excuse Jack from that, but it raises a lot of questions about free will.”"

 This is such BS.  So Dabb erased the entire history of the show to keep Jack pure and innocent. 

[Casseiopeia]

39 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

 This is such BS.  So Dabb erased the entire history of the show to keep Jack pure and innocent. 

Dabb just makes me sad. We can't stop him from writing his own "version" of the show. And the more I hear the worse it sounds. This is his go to when his previous season sucks. Erase it all and write new rules..no one will notice.

Edited October 2, 2019 by Casseiopeia

[ILoveReading]

http://www.ksitetv.com/supernatural/supernatural-season-premiere-photos-back-and-to-the-future-description/196183/

Promo pics for ep 2.

I wonder why Sam and Dean have chains.

I remember Jared at comic con making a comment that a possible ending might be Sam being possessed by Amara and how some of us thought that was too specific a comment for it to be random.  Now it looks like the soul bomb is back, and Rowena is holding it.

So my guess is that is how they are going to deal with all the souls released and how they will end up dealing with God and Amara.   There will be a repeat of the speeches in Trial and Error, and Sam will sacrifice himself.  Then we'll see Dean in a Rocky's bar, not hunting and Lisa will walk in and smile at the cute bartender. 

That would fit with Jensen being leary of the ending.

Edited October 3, 2019 by ILoveReading

[gonzosgirrl]

2 hours ago, Casseiopeia said:

Dabb just makes me sad. We can't stop him from writing his own "version" of the show. And the more I hear the worse it sounds. This is his go to when his previous season sucks. Erase it all and write new rules..no one will notice.

There really are no words for how much I detest this guy, and all those around him.

12 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

So my guess is that is how they are going to deal with all the souls released and how they will end up dealing with God and Amara.   There will be a repeat of the speeches in Trial and Error, and Sam will sacrifice himself.  Then we'll see Dean in a Rocky's bar, not hunting and Lisa will walk in and smile at the cute bartender. 

That would fit with Jensen being leary of the ending.

There is a reason that Jared loved it and Jensen didn't. This is as good a speculation as any.

Edited October 3, 2019 by gonzosgirrl

[Castiels Cat]

Talk about bitter. I saw a post on FB that it's only days.  NOT only was I gobsmacked because I  have not been counting the days. I completely blew off any press this summer. I don't even care. Meh.

I speculate bitterly that I will be disappointed.

[Castiels Cat]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

There really are no words for how much I detest this guy, and all those around him.

There is a reason that Jared loved it and Jensen didn't. This is as good a speculation as any.

Yes. I am sure Sam dies and Dean lives. That flies well with the spoilers. They just do the Kripke 2.0.

Please do not discount the tragic and fatal consequences that the nepotism dup have had on the show. As Singer's wife she ran amuck cranking out her special vision devoid of seasonal, character, mytharc or canonical logic. 

Edited October 3, 2019 by Castiels Cat

[NougatJack]

10 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

 This is such BS.  So Dabb erased the entire history of the show to keep Jack pure and innocent. 

For me, it has been absolutely clear that Chuck is responsible for Marys death. At least since Moriah I knew it. So Dabb hasn‘t changed anything here, because Jack has always been more or less innocent.

[Aeryn13]

The character desperately needed some edge, instead they are putting on another diaper and continue coddling him. He is a Cousin Oliver Mary Sue and so insanely baby-boring because of it.

As for the soul bomb, I think it will be a quick fix for the current episode.

Till the finale every episode will be random guest stars and quick fixes. Then they will pull the Finale out of their ass. As Dabb, Singer and the Nep Duo do.

And while I have no doubt the Finale will suck and, since Jares loves it, be a Sam-trip, if they will die or live or whatever, I do think they will do so together. One won't live and one won't die.

[PAForrest]

2 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

The character desperately needed some edge, instead they are putting on another diaper and continue coddling him. He is a Cousin Oliver Mary Sue and so insanely baby-boring because of it.

As for the soul bomb, I think it will be a quick fix for the current episode.

Till the finale every episode will be random guest stars and quick fixes. Then they will pull the Finale out of their ass. As Dabb, Singer and the Nep Duo do.

And while I have no doubt the Finale will suck and, since Jares loves it, be a Sam-trip, if they will die or live or whatever, I do think they will do so together. One won't live and one won't die.

Well, he's Dabb's frustrated baby hero-wannabe stand-in, and that's as Mary Sue as they come. It's textbook. And suckage always ensues.

I wish Kripke cared more about the fact that Dabb and Singer are  completely trashing his most notable endeavor, because whatever they poop out for the finale is what will be remembered, and that's highly unlikely to be good or have anything to do with Kripke's original On the Road homage.

And suckage ensues.

[ILoveReading]

3 hours ago, NougatJack said:

For me, it has been absolutely clear that Chuck is responsible for Marys death. At least since Moriah I knew it. So Dabb hasn‘t changed anything here, because Jack has always been more or less innocent.

The writer's wrote themselves into a corner.  They had Jack commit an unforgivable act and they needed a convenient way to shove Jack back into the Impala so Dabb could keep writing his "my three dads" soap opera.

He torpedoed the whole show and its history and legacy to excuse his self insert Mary Sue.  This robbed every single character of agency, made every important moment null and void.   This show was built on free will.   This is why Dabb is a horrible writer and Jack is the worst thing to ever happen to the show.

Yes, I'm bitter as heck.

[ahrtee]

5 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

As for the soul bomb, I think it will be a quick fix for the current episode.

IA.  Remember, it wasn't a bomb until it was put in Dean (when Rowena made it one).  First, they had to collect enough souls into Rowena's little trap.  And where are there a whole buttload of souls  ready to be collected?  Oh, right.  

So Rowena's collecting thing will gather all the loose souls and then someone (I'd guess Billie?*) will dispose of them (again) and no more danger.  Except there will be those who got away (like the demons who managed to get out of the devil's gate before it was closed in AHBL) to give the boys something to hunt again.  (And I'm guessing--surprise!--that there'll be many of the ones they hunted before who managed to escape so they get to hunt them again.  *sigh*)  

*Conversely, since the spoiler says Ketch helps, maybe he comes up with a BMoL way of disposing of the souls, since Billie is busy with Jack.  

*double sigh*

[BabySpinach]

Characters who are never held responsible for their actions are boring at best and unbearably obnoxious at worst. There are no stakes and no reason for us to genuinely care about them or their journeys.

Edited October 3, 2019 by BabySpinach

[Smad]

6 hours ago, NougatJack said:

For me, it has been absolutely clear that Chuck is responsible for Marys death. At least since Moriah I knew it. So Dabb hasn‘t changed anything here, because Jack has always been more or less innocent.

It's not like Mary is the only person Jack has hurt or KILLED. There is plenty damage to go around. And that damage he did on his own, nothing to do with God forcing his hand. Since Chuck only writes himself into the story when something happens that threatens his narrative. So even if God pushed him with Mary, that excuse won't work for all the other human collateral damage Jack has done.

[NougatJack]

1 hour ago, Smad said:

It's not like Mary is the only person Jack has hurt or KILLED. There is plenty damage to go around. And that damage he did on his own, nothing to do with God forcing his hand. Since Chuck only writes himself into the story when something happens that threatens his narrative. So even if God pushed him with Mary, that excuse won't work for all the other human collateral damage Jack has done.

Jup, and Sam, Dean and Cas have killed many more people, so Jack fits very well in their little team. 

[gonzosgirrl]

17 minutes ago, NougatJack said:

Jup, and Sam, Dean and Cas have killed many more people, so Jack fits very well in their little team. 

Sam, Dean and Cas killed monsters (and the occasional monstrous human). Nougat boy is a monster.