These Spoilers Suck: Bitter Speculation About SPN Spoilers

[Aeryn13]

Quote

While its true that Gen didn't get her job by her relationship with Jared.   I do remember a story that they were originally going to to have Ruby body hop and not just cast one person but that changed becasue of her developing relationship with Jared. 

I remember that because I was so annoyed. Not a fan of her acting as Ruby. 

Which actually, "normal" casting isn`t a guarantee for quality performances either. Not if the character doesn`t fit. I thought Charlie fit Felicia Day`s persona really well so I liked the character overall but I don`t consider her an impressive performer. And of course there is "CW casting" when they transplant actors from one show to another. Which worked out for me with Alex Calvert after Arrow but not so much with Elizabeth Blackmore as Lady Deadeyes. Couldn`t stand her performance on either show.

Casting Daneel, I consider a gimmick. I was fine with her on Ten Inch Hero. No idea what her character is gonna be like and what kind of range that requires. I doubt it`s a really pivotal part of the show, though, either way. If she can survive Bucklemming writing, good for her.    

[catrox14]

3 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

It struck me as a bit odd at the last convention panel when Jensen particularly remarked on Singer's wife being a fantastic writer (or whatever he said).  I wonder if rumblings have reached the set?  Because it's not just us... there are gripes about the NepDuo's writing all over online reviews.

If they're writing Danneel's episode...well, then that's worrying.  Because we'll get torture with a dash of misogyny and a zillion different plots going on at once.

TBF, Jensen has often referred to the entire writing staff as brilliant at one time or another including Buck Lemming over the years, not just recently. And was also vocal about them killing off Charlie and tried to actually get them to not do it. 

[AwesomO4000]

5 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I got my job because my best friend introduced me to my (now) boss, who was her son's FIL. Without her, he wouldn't have known about me, nor I, him. My position didn't exist until he hired me for it. Nobody else was ever considered for the job. I don't feel the least bit guilty for that. I still had to show my qualifications and prove myself. I got the opportunity to get the job through connections, but I had/have to work to be qualified for it, and to keep it (8 years now).

Most of the people I know found their jobs through connections, whether it be networking, friends, prior business contacts and yes, sometimes family. It's the way of the world.

5 hours ago, mertensia said:

Yep. I got my current job partially because my boss and I are fellow Midwesterners and both Big 10 football fans. 

Me three. I got my job because my hubby worked for the university, so I could get on the spouse benefit package with him, so they didn't have to worry about paying me benefits with the position. And I was willing to work part time, because a large salary wasn't an issue for me. So they knew I had skills they needed and I wouldn't cost much, so they made my job especially for me. If there wasn't me - and being a professor's wife with spouse benefits - the job wouldn't exist. I take care of identifications and continuing education professors don't want to have to deal with... so much so that when funding was low due to budget stuff (Universities always have budget stuff), different professors and extension people gave money out of their budgets to keep me. My job is permanent now - a couple of deans and my wonderful boss (not my hubby) made it so, because I do it well enough and made myself needed... despite my eccentricities - of which I have many. But if I was gone, the job would disappear and the professors would have to go back to taking care of the stuff I do between them.

And maybe that's why there is CW crossover with actors. I'm betting it's easier to negotiate contracts with actors and managers they've already worked with before rather than having to start over with actors and managers they've never dealt with before. It could also be that - like with me - there might be some room for negotiation of salary due to Daneel being Jensen's wife. I'm not saying that there is, or that Hollywood works the same way that a university does, but if there's a way to make things easier and less expensive by using actors they've used before and/or who are spouses of those on set and also happen to be qualified, I can certainly understand why they might do so. I'm pretty sure show production is expensive and full of enough legal and bureaucratic crap, so any way to make that less / easier... I don't blame them for.

[MysteryGuest]

I've gotten a number of jobs over my working lifetime due to someone I knew putting in a good word for me.  As others have said, I still had to do the work to keep the job.  Had I just shown up and said "hey, I'm so and so's friend", and proceeded to suck at my job, I'd have been asked to leave.

In my opinion, nepotism only has a negative connotation when it refers to hiring unqualified family/friends over someone else with the required qualifications.  I know that does happen quite a bit, and I agree that it's annoying as hell.  But having the required skill set, and using your connections to get your foot in the door is a completely different thing, IMO.

[companionenvy]

I think it is very context and job dependent. One question is whether this fits the model of ordinary employment, or something closer to artistic collaboration. Obviously, directors/writers/actors choose to work on projects with each other all the time. I don't think that there's any expectation that every Hollywood job be filled by open casting calls - nor, IMO, should it be. The fact that this role was apparently created for her makes it even less controversial, IMO. Yes, it sucks for the hypothetical actress who might have been cast had they created a different character to fulfill whatever purpose DA is going to fill, but that's how it goes. It also sucks to be interviewing for a job that another candidate has an inside track on because of connections, but as long as things are more or less equal between the candidates otherwise, I don't see it as a terrible problem.

DA seems perfectly qualified, given her background, to take on a guest starring role in an old-in-the-tooth CW show.  It isn't like they were going to get Meryl Streep through holding auditions. Otherwise, as I've never seen DA in anything,  I don't have any feelings one way or the other about her being on SPN. 

[DittyDotDot]

10 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

It struck me as a bit odd at the last convention panel when Jensen particularly remarked on Singer's wife being a fantastic writer (or whatever he said).  I wonder if rumblings have reached the set?  Because it's not just us... there are gripes about the NepDuo's writing all over online reviews.

I think Jensen--and Jared--may not spend time checking out reviews and such online. I'm guessing they get enough fandom interaction through their own social media and the cons that any more than that would be overwhelming and probably frustrating. And, I'm guessing they don't hear the same chatter on their own social media. So, they may not be aware of fandom's reaction to the Horrible Duo, but I don't think Jensen has a problem with their writing considering he's talked Eugenie up before.

I just try to remember that their experience of the show is just so different from mine. Most of their memories of an episode is of them shooting it, not watching the final product. And, an episode can go through so many changes before it's finished that it's hard to know if what we see is what they imagined when they were making it. 

Edited December 7, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[ahrtee]

2 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:

I've gotten a number of jobs over my working lifetime due to someone I knew putting in a good word for me.  As others have said, I still had to do the work to keep the job.  Had I just shown up and said "hey, I'm so and so's friend", and proceeded to suck at my job, I'd have been asked to leave.

In my opinion, nepotism only has a negative connotation when it refers to hiring unqualified family/friends over someone else with the required qualifications.  I know that does happen quite a bit, and I agree that it's annoying as hell.  But having the required skill set, and using your connections to get your foot in the door is a completely different thing, IMO.

It seems to me that if they had held open auditions and Danneel had gotten the part that way, there would be an even bigger assumption of nepotism and her qualifications questioned, even if she had won the role legitimately, which probably wouldn't do her career any favors.  People are going to assume she has the insider's edge either way, so at least this is being upfront about it and not hurting anyone else (including the time, energy and cost involved in holding auditions.)  AFAIK, "preferred" actors are offered roles all the time without auditioning if TPTB want them, usually because they think it'll help gain a larger audience for whatever reason.  

[MysteryGuest]

I'm honestly not convinced that Danneel is using this as any sort of stepping stone to jump start her career again. She seems to me to be perfectly content, at least for now, being a stay at home mother.  But that doesn't mean that she wouldn't simply enjoy the opportunity to be on this little show with the devoted fanbase that her husband has been a part of for 13 years.  Again, she knows all of these people, and she's already basically part of their family, and she's an actress.  I would be completely surprised to learn that any of the other cast members are wringing their hands and crying nepotism.  I think it would be different if they were adding her to the cast as a regular, but they're not.  She's just getting a shot to join the fun for a few episodes while the show is still running.  

I'm honestly not trying to change the mind of anyone who has a problem with her being on the show, but I don't really understand why it would be so upsetting to some.  Destiel fans I get, and wife haters I get.  I even understand those people who simply don't care either way.  But run of the mill fans having such a visceral reaction to this surprises me, I guess.

Edited December 7, 2017 by MysteryGuest

[DeeDee79]

10 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

Destiel fans I get, and wife haters I get.

I don't get these groups hating the idea either, tbh. Destiel is a fandom ship & why do fans hate the wives of actors that you know nothing about save what we're shown through online footage? I know about the tinhatters & frankly I think that they're ridiculous. I've never watched One Tree Hill & I haven't seen anything that Danneel has been in so I have a pretty open mind regarding what's to come. I'm baffled by the negativity just from the announcement of her being on the show. I can't imagine the way fandom will rip her to shreds after her first episode just for the sake of doing so.

[MysteryGuest]

1 minute ago, DeeDee79 said:

I don't get these groups hating the idea either, tbh. Destiel is a fandom ship & why do fans hate the wives of actors that you know nothing about save what we're shown through online footage?

I don't really understand those fans any more than you do, but having read enough at some social media sites, I know these fans are out there, and I've seen their comments even before this was announced.  So their reaction to the news isn't at all surprising to me.  That's what I meant.  

The good news is that I think the truly negative stuff will be just the usual suspects spewing forth their normal crap, which I sincerely hope none of the cast ever pays attention to.  What I do wonder about is just how long this has been in the works for this season.  Jensen said at the con that it was in the works for a while, so I'm hoping that means they've spent some time working her storyline into the overall theme of the season, and that it's not just a last minute addition that isn't going to make any sense.  

[DeeDee79]

2 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

I don't really understand those fans any more than you do, but having read enough at some social media sites, I know these fans are out there, and I've seen their comments even before this was announced.  So their reaction to the news isn't at all surprising to me.  That's what I meant.  

I know what you meant; I've seen these groups from skimming through Tumblr.  I'm just saying that  I don't get how they can be so ridiculous to the point of disliking Jensen's wife because of their fandom ships.

[catrox14]

21 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

I don't get these groups hating the idea either, tbh. Destiel is a fandom ship & why do fans hate the wives of actors that you know nothing about save what we're shown through online footage? I know about the tinhatters & frankly I think that they're ridiculous. I've never watched One Tree Hill & I haven't seen anything that Danneel has been in so I have a pretty open mind regarding what's to come. I'm baffled by the negativity just from the announcement of her being on the show. I can't imagine the way fandom will rip her to shreds after her first episode just for the sake of doing so.

Honestly, I think it's anti-Destiel people claiming Destiel shippers don't want her on the show. I have only seen one OBVIOUS troll account on Twitter claiming that she'll disrupt the ship. Most Misha fans seem to like Danneel and are actively encouraging them to pick at J2 lol.

I ship Destiel but her being around won't change that LOL. Polyamory FTW (I kid...mostly ) I have my reasons and I also don't expect it to be canon text. I'll eat my hat if that comes to pass. 

Bronlies don't want either brother to have an endgame relationship IMO. Bi-Bros I think just want them to either die together or each get a happy ending or have it be ambiguous. Dean fans I think expect Dean to die for Sam and the shipping faction if Destiel is ever a thing will be in the last episode and likely Cas dies in Dean's arms.

I legit don't know what Sam fans want for Sam for himself TBH.

Cas fans I think just want Cas to get a win before he dies. LOL

And I can't see Sister Jo being a serious love interest for anyone.

22 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

 Jensen said at the con that it was in the works for a while, so I'm hoping that means they've spent some time working her storyline into the overall theme of the season, and that it's not just a last minute addition that isn't going to make any sense.  

She's aligned with Lucifer if the spoilers are correct. She's a faith healer but is she human? Maybe she's some kind of sketchy reaper.

[DeeDee79]

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

Honestly, I think it's anti-Destiel people claiming Destiel shippers don't want her on the show. I have only seen one OBVIOUS troll account on Twitter claiming that she'll disrupt the ship. Most Misha fans seem to like Danneel and are actively encouraging them to pick at J2 lol.

I ship Destiel but her being around won't change that LOL. Polyamory FTW (I kid...mostly ) I have my reasons and I also don't expect it to be canon text. I'll eat my hat if that comes to pass. 

Bronlies don't want either brother to have an endgame relationship IMO. Bi-Bros I think just want them to either die together or each get a happy ending or have it be ambiguous. Dean fans I think expect Dean to die for Sam and the shipping faction if Destiel is ever a thing will be in the last episode and likely Cas dies in Dean's arms.

I legit don't know what Sam fans want for Sam for himself TBH.

Cas fans I think just want Cas to get a win before he dies. LOL

And I can't see Sister Jo being a serious love interest for anyone.

Honestly I think that ship has sailed for either brother to have a long term love interest. I either want them to have their happy ending with the future being ambiguous but peaceful or for them to go out as heroes.

[DittyDotDot]

On 12/5/2017 at 5:34 PM, ahrtee said:

My question to is...why should it bother people so much?  You're accusing them (one/all) of "nepotism" (as if it's taking a role away from someone else who you might consider more "deserving.")  But if the role was written specifically for her and wouldn't exist otherwise, who is it/she harming?  

I've mostly stayed out of this debate because I don't have a problem with Daneel being on the show and I don't think she was given the job only because she's Jensen's wife. It's not like this is first job and/or she couldn't have won the job through the traditional auditioning process. She's a qualified for the job even if she didn't have to go through the application process to get it, so I'm fine with her getting the job.

However, I kinda have an issue that they created a part just for her from a storytelling perspective. It seems to imply that the character would not exist otherwise and I'm a firm believer that every character should exist for story reasons and story reasons alone. IMO, there's a difference between writing a character with a mental image of a particular actor, but the character would exist if they couldn't get that casting--because that character is necessary to the story they're telling--and creating a character that would not exist otherwise because you have an actor you need or want to use. For a one off bit part, it really doesn't matter to me, but a part that spans a few episodes is not that, IMO.

For instance, I believe Garth was written with DJ Qualls in mind, but they never really expected to get that casting. In fact, he was an off-screen character they just envisioned being played by DJ and then later decided to revisit the character on-screen and were pleasantly surprised they got DJ. But, the character of Garth would've existed if they hadn't gotten DJ. And, I believe Charlie was a similar thing. Robbie wrote this character with Felicia Day as his mental picture and was really pleased when they got Felicia to play the part, but Charlie would've existed if Felicia had said no.

I know of a few parts that went to actors who had expressed an interest in the show, but I really don't know of any character that was created specifically because they had an actor they needed to use, off the top of my head. Getting Pellegrino back as Lucifer in S12 seems very close to this ball of wax, though. What I mean is, it seems they just wanted Mark Pellegrino back on the show, but didn't have a part for him to play anymore. So, they forced Lucifer back into the story in order to get the actor back and now the whole thing is just a mess with Lucifer, IMO. 

So, in the case of Sister Jo, it remains to be seen if they actually created the character for Daneel or if they had planned for the character anyway and decided this was something that would fit Daneel knowing that she was interested in doing something this season. I'm willing to wait and see how it all plays out, but my only concern about this is that she may become another Lucifer for me. Which would be a shame.

Edited December 7, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[catrox14]

39 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

So, in the case of Sister Jo, it remains to be seen if they actually created the character for Daneel or if they had planned for the character anyway and decided this was something that would fit Daneel knowing that she was interested in doing something this season. I'm willing to wait and see how it all plays out, but my only concern about this is that she may become another Lucifer for me. Which would be a shame.

She's aligned with Lucifer. So I think maybe it's a character they had thought about in a different form but reworked the character for Danneel so it may not change anything storywise that much

[RulerofallIsurvey]

On 12/5/2017 at 6:46 PM, MysteryGuest said:

I'm not sure what the issue here is either. 

On 12/6/2017 at 10:12 AM, ILoveReading said:

So I don't see what the big deal is by Danneel having a small part in a couple of episodes. 

12 hours ago, DeeDee79 said:

I don't get these groups hating the idea either, tbh.

And I don't see what the problem is if I don't want either of the main actor's wives on the show?  I thought we were all entitled to our opinions here?

11 hours ago, DeeDee79 said:

Honestly I think that ship has sailed for either brother to have a long term love interest. I either want them to have their happy ending with the future being ambiguous but peaceful or for them to go out as heroes.

You're probably right about the long term love interest (and in the context of the show, it would probably be for the best) but a tiny part of my mostly cold, dead heart would still like to see a hint of it - maybe at the very end.  :)

Edited December 7, 2017 by RulerofallIsurvey

[DittyDotDot]

7 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

She's aligned with Lucifer. So I think maybe it's a character they had thought about in a different form but reworked the character for Danneel so it may not change anything storywise that much

Which is why I said it remains to be seen... .

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

And I don't see what the problem is if I don't want either of the main actor's wives on the show?  I thought we were all entitled to our opinions here without any arguing about it?

I'm not seeing any arguing. But then again I don't consider lively discussion about strong, if diametrically opposed  opinions as arguing. But that's just me.

1 minute ago, DittyDotDot said:

Which is why I said it remains to be seen... .

?  I was expanding my own thoughts on how it might work..musing right along with everyone else..

[catrox14]

I was thinking about Cas' powers and angels doing no smiting this season. They kill via angel blade which yes makes for cool fight but it seems like something has changed. I mean Castiel was in hand to hand combat and he didn't smite or even finger boop the forehead thing. He couldnt heal the bank guard unless that was because  he was too dead already. Jack has not been shown to even try to heal someone which is just stupid writing unless it's for a reason. I Eman come on show.

The angels didn t seem to notice that Lucifer didn't have all his grace which I thought was a thing all other angels could recognize in each other like they did with Cas I  S10. Unless I'm misremembering.

 

All of which leads me to wonder if Jack's birth affected the other angel powers. Or is the show just being stupid and  inconsistent?

Edited December 7, 2017 by catrox14

[gonzosgirrl]

20 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I was thinking about Cas' powers and angels doing no smiting this season. They kill via angel blade which yes makes for cool fight but it seems like something has changed. I mean Castiel was in hand to hand combat and he didn't smite or even finger boop the forehead thing. He couldnt heal the bank guard unless that was because  he was too dead already. Jack has not been shown to even try to heal someone which is just stupid writing unless it's for a reason. I Eman come on show.

The angels didn t seem to notice that Lucifer didn't have all his grace which I thought was a thing all other angels could recognize in each other like they did with Cas I  S10. Unless I'm misremembering.

 

All of which leads me to wonder if Jack's birth affected the other angel powers. Or is the show just being stupid and  inconsistent?

Probably your last sentence :/ Funny that the demon recognized Luci's diminished power right away though, because the plot needed him to. 

Continuity really doesn't seem to be a priority with them. They don't seem to mind lifting iconic lines wholesale and giving them to other characters though. Dean's wailed "Somebody help me" seems to be the latest casualty, with Mary yelling it from her cage prison. Bleh. 

Edited December 7, 2017 by gonzosgirrl

[catrox14]

16 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

ontinuity really doesn't seem to be a priority with them. They don't seem to mind lifting iconic lines wholesale and giving them to other characters though. Dean's wailed "Somebody help me" seems to be the latest casualty, with Mary yelling it from her cage prison. Bleh. 

Oh it gets better. Jody is going to say the following per Jensen in this TV Addict interview, Jody will say the following in either 13.09 or 13.10

http://www.thetvaddict.com/2017/11/30/supernatural-jared-padalecki-jensen-ackles-preview-the-midseason-finale/

Quote

"I also love the fact that it’s a direct homage to the beginning of Supernatural in how it’s coming together,” Ackles added. “Because Jody calls Claire and says ‘the boys have been on a hunting trip and haven’t been home in a few days’. Which is the exact same thing that Dean said to Sam in episode 1, that Dad has been [on a hunting trip]. I love that aspect of it, that….the genesis of both of them are very similar in that aspect. Obviously the stories will be a little different, but it is this gathering of characters to go and save their friends. Or their family. So right then and there that’s a great foundation to build stories on.”

I guess at least it's Jody saying it about the boys so the call back is not AS annoying. Dean's uttered arguably the two most iconic lines in the shows history which served to establish the shows raison d'etre 1) "Dad's on a hunting trip and hasn't been hope in a few days" and 2) Saving People, Hunting Things, the Family Business"  have been repackaged by other characters. Maybe the trade off is that Jensen is like you can give that line to someone else but I'm using MY repackaging for my business in exchange LOL (I'm not being serious about that before anyone yells at me).

Also that line ended with John dead 23 eps later right?

If my conspiratorial little mind which already sees omens of Dean's impending real most sincere death by the end of the series is at all correct then Dean is being set up to die 26 episodes after Jody says the line.

The number 13 seems interesting.

S13 is 23 episodes putting them at 287.  If they call it a day at 300, that means 13 eps for s14.

13.10 is ep 274 that puts them at 26 eps to 300.

Danneel's first ep is 13.13. 

13+13=26

I predict that Danneel's character will be the omen of Dean's death in some way. No I am not being snarky about that either. I'm not saying Danneel will be the death of the show.  If Jody says that in 13.09, then Dean dies in 299 and 300 will be Sam figuring out life without Dean.

I'm not sure how much of that I actually believe LOL....

[MysteryGuest]

5 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I predict that Danneel's character will be the omen of Dean's death in some way. No I am not being snarky about that either. I'm not saying Danneel will be the death of the show.  If Jody says that in 13.09, then Dean dies in 299 and 300 will be Sam figuring out life without Dean.

I'm not sure how much of that I actually believe LOL....

I know you worked hard at that calculation, but I'm hoping it's not correct for a few reasons.  I don't want Dean to die, first of all.  And Jensen just mentioned at the last con that they were having way too much fun to give up cons, so I'm hoping that correlates to the show, as well.  I would think that, publicity wise, this has been one of the best years for them, if not the best.  That might be hard to walk away from.

9 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

And I don't see what the problem is if I don't want either of the main actor's wives on the show?  I thought we were all entitled to our opinions here?

There is absolutely no problem, which is why I said that I wasn't trying to change anyone's mind.  I just personally don't understand why it's such an issue for some.  But that's on me, not you.  I don't have to understand it, and no one is obligated to explain or defend their position.  If I came across as bitchy, it wasn't my intention.

[nightwing877]

I don't see why they don't consider shorter seasons after season 13 or 14 as a way to keep the show going but giving the boys time off. WS could be paired as the replacement show for the timeslot. But I have a hunch they want both airing at the same time. 

[DeeDee79]

13 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

And I don't see what the problem is if I don't want either of the main actor's wives on the show?  I thought we were all entitled to our opinions here?

Since my post is one of the ones that you quoted I'll just say that I personally don't care if you or anyone has a problem with Danneel being on the show. My post was regarding the fact that I don't get why Destiel fans or wife haters would be so passionate about their ships ( Destielers, Tinhatters ) when they are fandom ships only that they would be angry with the actor's actual wife appearing on the show. Personally I don't see a problem with her being on the show. She's an actress and & far from the only one in showbiz history that's appeared beside her husband on the small screen. But as always YMMV & this is IMO.

Edited December 8, 2017 by DeeDee79

[catrox14]

2 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:

I know you worked hard at that calculation, but I'm hoping it's not correct for a few reasons.  I don't want Dean to die, first of all.  And Jensen just mentioned at the last con that they were having way too much fun to give up cons, so I'm hoping that correlates to the show, as well.  I would think that, publicity wise, this has been one of the best years for them, if not the best.  That might be hard to walk away from.

They can still do the cons. And I didn't really work that hard at it LOL I pulled it out of my ass in about 5 minutes LOL

Edited December 8, 2017 by catrox14

[MysteryGuest]

52 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

They can still do the cons. And I didn't really work that hard at it LOL I pulled it out of my ass in about 5 minutes LOL

I know they can still do the cons.  Hell, they're still doing Star Trek cons.  Not sure I'm prepared for Jared and Jensen to be doing those jumps on stage when they're in their 80's...  But as much as I complain about the writing on this show, I'm still not ready to say goodbye to these characters.  Plus, I keep holding out hope that the writing will somehow miraculously improve and we'll get that well-written season I've been hoping for.

[Res]

9 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Oh it gets better. Jody is going to say the following per Jensen in this TV Addict interview, Jody will say the following in either 13.09 or 13.10

http://www.thetvaddict.com/2017/11/30/supernatural-jared-padalecki-jensen-ackles-preview-the-midseason-finale/

I guess at least it's Jody saying it about the boys so the call back is not AS annoying. Dean's uttered arguably the two most iconic lines in the shows history which served to establish the shows raison d'etre 1) "Dad's on a hunting trip and hasn't been hope in a few days" and 2) Saving People, Hunting Things, the Family Business"  have been repackaged by other characters. Maybe the trade off is that Jensen is like you can give that line to someone else but I'm using MY repackaging for my business in exchange LOL (I'm not being serious about that before anyone yells at me).

Also that line ended with John dead 23 eps later right?

If my conspiratorial little mind which already sees omens of Dean's impending real most sincere death by the end of the series is at all correct then Dean is being set up to die 26 episodes after Jody says the line.

The number 13 seems interesting.

S13 is 23 episodes putting them at 287.  If they call it a day at 300, that means 13 eps for s14.

13.10 is ep 274 that puts them at 26 eps to 300.

Danneel's first ep is 13.13. 

13+13=26

I predict that Danneel's character will be the omen of Dean's death in some way. No I am not being snarky about that either. I'm not saying Danneel will be the death of the show.  If Jody says that in 13.09, then Dean dies in 299 and 300 will be Sam figuring out life without Dean.

I'm not sure how much of that I actually believe LOL....

I don't know if it's true but I LOVE this predication! It would be awesome if it panned out.

[catrox14]

http://tvline.com/2017/12/07/supernatural-recap-season-13-episode-9-dean-sam-the-bad-place-new-world/

Quote

rescuer.

TVLINE | What kind of world have Dean and Sam found themselves in? The imagery would suggest prehistoric.
ANDREW DABB | I think the imagery is about right. We’ve seen an alternate world once already this year in apocalypse world, which is pretty much like our world, but an apocalypse happened to it. The world Sam and Dean go into at the end of Episode 9 is something much different, something much more alien. We’ve seen in Episode 9, and we will continue to see in Episode 10, the things that are there are bigger and badder and weirder and grosser than anything we’ve seen on Supernatural proper. It’s essentially an alien planet. That’s how we’re kind of treating it, and the big footprint is just the tip of the iceberg.

TVLINE | The Bad Place got name-checked a lot in this episode, and we saw a lot of disturbing imagery. Was that hooded figure also part of The Bad Place?
ROBERT BERENS | Yes. The world of Supernatural this season is very engaged in the apocalypse world of the archangel Michael. The Bad Place, [which is] the place that Sam and Dean are at the end of Episode 9, is the kind of proprietary nightmare world of Wayward and the spinoff [backdoor pilot] in Episode 10. We’ll be exploring that hooded figure, the giant monster we heard in the background of the last scene, as well as all those other critters.

TVLINE | Can you clarify: Did Kaia end up in our world, just in a different location?
BERENS | Yes. When Jack and the boys enlisted Kaia at the end, I think Jack was riding high off of some of his successes and his acceptance by the boys… It was a desperate move to get out of there, but he thought it could have a good outcome. But the truth is there’s a lot Sam and Dean and Jack don’t understand about Kaia’s relationship to this place, about The Bad Place, and that cosmic accident at the end of Episode 9 is a consequence of all that stuff they don’t know and understand. So in a way, Kaia was recoiling from this place that has this nightmarish grip on her and her dreamwalking, and she was slingshot back out of this event as it occurred. Sam and Dean were flung into The Bad Place, [while] she was being pulled back, and Jack was flung to apocalypse world.

TVLINE | Speaking of Jack, he’s in the apocalypse world with Mary — but will she be happy to see him considering she doesn’t have the best history with his father, Lucifer?
DABB | I don’t think much is going to make Mary happy at the moment. She’s not in a real happy place. As much as Mary has a bad history with Lucifer, Mary has a good history and a nice bond with Kelly. I think Mary — after she realizes who she’s dealing with and some suspicion — is willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. But certainly, she’s not going into this with her eyes closed. She’s not going into this automatically an ally, let’s put it that way. And obviously, the Lucifer angle will continue to be a real question mark [with] Jack, because as he’s said on the show and we’ve kind of intimated, there’s a part of him that’s closer to Lucifer than I think he, Sam and Dean, or anybody else wants to admit right now.

TVLINE | Jack said that Lucifer isn’t anybody to him, that Winchesters and Cas are his family, which I can’t imagine Lucifer will be too happy about if he ever finds out. Can you talk about what’s ahead for that dysfunctional fatherly rivalry, so to speak, between Lucifer and Cas?
DABB | What Jack said, he believes in this moment. He’s never met Lucifer, although I think there are some parts of Jack that maybe are a little bit closer to Lucifer than he’s let on at this point. … When Lucifer and Jack are reunited — and that’s something we’ve been building toward and continue to build toward for a big part of our season — it represents a real sea change in terms of Lucifer’s character, in terms of Jack’s character and in terms of Jack’s dynamics with Sam, Dean and Cas. That’s something on the horizon.

So prehistoric - OMG this is stupid. It is dinosaurs. And Jensen is a little shit LOL

Mary doesn't have a history with either Lucifer or Kelly? WTF is Dabb smoking? She beat up Lucifer once and then he saved her. There are experiences she had with Lucifer...does not a history make.

As for Kelly and Mary ..WTF Mary helped her give birth and that's it. Literally like a couple of hours. STFU Dabb

Edited December 8, 2017 by catrox14

[catrox14]

'Supernatural': Why the Time Is Right for Spinoff 'Wayward Sisters'

 

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/supernatural-wayward-sisters-spinoff-andrew-dab-bob-berens-1065310

Quote

For such a historically male-driven show, how does an all-female cast change things up creatively?

BERENS: The whole show is changing in order to open up the focus to include other characters, so it's almost not even about gender in that sense. It's about what happens when Sam and Dean are off the board. Basically, they don't exist in our reality anymore, so the cameras, the POV of the show, finds these other characters, a group of women who have, to varying degrees, been saved by Sam and Dean, have been touched by the supernatural, who are working as hunters in their own right. It's not just a chance to put a light on these female characters, it's also a chance to broaden out the POV of the show … as well as an opportunity for these women to actually save the show from itself.*** Sam and Dean are gone, so they're restoring Supernatural to Supernatural. So the focus will return to Sam and Dean in a very firm way by episode 11, and in a way, it's these women who are making that possible. That's how we conceptualized it.

DABB: The hope is that while these actresses and characters have been injecting a non- Sam and Dean, non-male perspective into the world, these characters all really matter. If we were populating it with four random female characters who no one had met before and expecting people to tune in just because they should support female-driven genre shows, I don't know if the audience would respond to that; I don't think that would be a good thing for us. We've spent, in some cases eight or nine years, building up these characters and hopefully making people care about them. Our hope is that people respond to these characters as characters. I would never say it's not about gender but the gender is something that would permeate the DNA of this show from the beginning, but at the end of the day, I don't think we expect people to tune in only because of the gender mix of the show. They're going to tune in because they're fascinated by these characters and our hope is that we did our jobs and created characters that are fascinating.

But while it's not solely just based on gender, it is so exciting to finally see a piece of the Supernatural world populated with so many strong female characters. Given the climate of the industry today, why was it the right time to do this? 

BERENS: Giving the spotlight to women and getting them to be centered in that [Sam and Dean] way is exciting because it's new. A lot of what we're seeing is Supergirl-like characters, and something that's special about Supernatural that becomes even more special when it's about women is that these are human beings. They're mortal fighters. They get beat up, they get bloodied, they get emotionally devastated. There's something very grounded about the central characters of Supernatural and having female heroes who are women doing extraordinary things, that's a very special and exciting thing that I don't think we've seen that much of yet.

DABB: None of these characters are the chosen one, you know what I mean? When you do a show like this you think of Buffy and people who are, like, anointed. What's great about these characters and Supernatural just generally is there is no one who is anointed. You have to go and search and strive and work hard and sacrifice. That's what we want these characters to do. They're real humans fighting these battles. That's a good thing to see that we should see more of on TV. We should see more women out there kicking ass and taking names and occupying powerful roles in a genre or space where sometimes they get a little buried. Genre television has been very male-focused and it's been very hero-focused in the masculine sense and that is broadening now. Obviously Buffy did that a few years ago, and you've got shows like Wynonna Earp that are doing that now, so the chance to be a part of that is really fun for us and allows us to tell different kinds of stories that are in the Supernatural world that shift the focus enough in a very exciting way.

*** What the heck does this mean? "Women will save the show from itself?"

Um...okay....

[catrox14]

I swear if I hear the term 'strong female character" one more time, I'm gonna slap Dabb upside his head. 

[Wayward Son]

LMAO

 

Dabb, if you want to broaden the shows viewpoint then make one of the many females who have starred a regular. Don’t use the “they need to save the show from itself” as justification for your spinoff. 

 

That is such weird logic. Why not just say “we feel there is much more to tell of these women’s stories and we feel the best way to do it is through a spin off where they’re front and centre”. That’s reasonable to me. They want to expand on their POV and couldn’t do so enough on the mother show where they’d always have to be secondary to Sam and Dean. 

Edited December 8, 2017 by Wayward Son

[Lady Calypso]

5 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I swear if I hear the term 'strong female character" one more time, I'm gonna slap Dabb upside his head. 

I have my own prediction here: with (probably) mostly men writing the spinoff, they're probably not going to be all strong female characters.

Just my gut feeling here. 

[catrox14]

2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I have my own prediction here: with (probably) mostly men writing the spinoff, they're probably not going to be all strong female characters.

Just my gut feeling here. 

I don't think so. Berens has said that he loves writing women. I don't think they will have the problem that the women have on the The Flash. I think they will go too far in the direction of being like Mary...Mostly I'm just tired of that buzz phrase because it means nothing LOL

I thought s1 through s5, most of the recurring female characters both villains and allies were actually pretty well constructed. They felt like whole people to me. No one had to convince me they were "strong female characters". I think since s7, Rowena is probably the most complicated and no one had to tell me "strong female character" they just showed me what she was. I hated her but that was a love to hate.

Donna has always felt like a whole person. Jody not so much. But I just never connected with Jody to a great extent. I mean I like her. And I don't want her killed off for many reasons but I'm just not in love with Jody. Donna I am in love with LOL.  Claire has never appealed to me. I liked Alex and she seemed much more complex than Claire despite all the attention to Claire being troubled. Maybe it's just the acting that I like more with Brianna and Alex vs Jody and Claire?

Just so me the characters and let the viewers decide who they are. It's just meaningless buzzwords. LOL

[ILoveReading]

I really don't like sounding like a bro-only because I'm really as far from that as you can get, but I want to know what's coming up on the 2nd half for the brothers.  (Dean in particular).  When was the last time we had a Winchester spoiler that didn't revolve around Jack or Wayward.

I also want to know about Cas.  I miss him when he's gone several eps in a row,

[Myrelle]

39 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I really don't like sounding like a bro-only because I'm really as far from that as you can get, but I want to know what's coming up on the 2nd half for the brothers.  (Dean in particular).  When was the last time we had a Winchester spoiler that didn't revolve around Jack or Wayward.

So, SO! with you on this. The season hinges on what they're going to do with Dean for me and we've heard nothing except that cryptic "Michael is not interested in Dean, at first" mention weeks ago, and that, coming from Dabb and going by his interview history(WinchesterS as GeneralS), could be as much about any other character on the show as it could be about Dean, for Pete's sake.

[AwesomO4000]

On 12/7/2017 at 1:12 PM, catrox14 said:

Dean's uttered arguably the two most iconic lines in the shows history which served to establish the shows raison d'etre 1) "Dad's on a hunting trip and hasn't been hope in a few days" and 2) Saving People, Hunting Things, the Family Business"  have been repackaged by other characters.

Well, there was also Sam's "we've got work to do." which was later also given to Dean. Twice. So Dean isn't the only one whose iconic lines get co-opted.

[DeeDee79]

5 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Well, there was also Sam's "we've got work to do." which was later also given to Dean. Twice. So Dean isn't the only one whose iconic lines get co-opted.

To be fair to @catrox14's statement it's somewhat different to have the lines recycled between the brothers as opposed to giving them to new characters.

[ILoveReading]

From the regular spoiler thread.

Quote

Question: I’ll take anything you have on Supernatural. —Karen
Ausiello: Remember how earlier this season Billie the reaper-turned-Death resurrected Dean, telling him that he and his brother Sam are too important to perish? Well, that little nugget “will come back into play this season,” executive producer Andrew Dabb teases.

0

The WinchesterS will be generals- The S stood for Sam. 

The WinchesterS will be dad to Jack- The S stood for Sam.

I'll believe Dean is important when it plays out on screen and not in a Dean is important becasue he drove Sam to his destiny kind of way

[MysteryGuest]

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

The WinchesterS will be dad to Jack- The S stood for Sam.

I have to say that I'm pleasantly surprised at the amount of interaction both Sam and Dean have with Jack.  I was expecting far more "Sam as parent" based on some of the very early snippets we learned.  I actually like how their relationships have developed.  

I also think both brothers have had a pretty equal share of the action this season, so I have no complaints there, either.  I do agree that I'm hoping there's more drama to come that involves our main characters.  I have no issue with the spin off, but it's getting I believe 4 episodes this season, which is more than enough.  The only good thing is that it involves characters we enjoy, like Jody and Donna.  But still, I don't want them to forget that they still have a pretty healthy show in Supernatural and it should be used for more than just a launching platform for a spin off.  

I'm going to assume that the 2nd half of the season will focus on the AU, Michael, Lucifer and Mary.  We'll see what Jack's role is there.  I wonder if when they initially thought about Jack's character, it was supposed to be just a one-season role?  I have to think that with Alex's popularity, they'd be stupid to do away with him.  Of course, this show's been stupid before.  I'm sure a lot hinges on just what the future of the show is.  Are the boys in for a few more seasons, or are they really looking to hang it up at 300?  I'd like to know the answer to that so I can prepare myself!

[RulerofallIsurvey]

I am not looking forward to Daneel being on the show.  For the first time ever, I might have to skip an episode, or only watch parts of it (even the horrible ones on rewatch, I watch in entirety.)  And I sure as shooting don't want Gen back on the show either.  IMHO, all this talk about the wife (wives) on the show takes away from talk about the show proper, especially Sam, Dean, and Cas.

[gonzosgirrl]

11 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

I am not looking forward to Daneel being on the show.  For the first time ever, I might have to skip an episode, or only watch parts of it (even the horrible ones on rewatch, I watch in entirety.)  And I sure as shooting don't want Gen back on the show either.  IMHO, all this talk about the wife (wives) on the show takes away from talk about the show proper, especially Sam, Dean, and Cas.

The writers have been doing a fine job thus far, turning it into the Jack the Cinnamon Roll/Wayward Whatevers show. I'm 100% certain having Danneel (two 'n's :)) as a character won't make a difference.

[ILoveReading]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

The writers have been doing a fine job thus far, turning it into the Jack the Cinnamon Roll/Wayward Whatevers show. I'm 100% certain having Danneel (two 'n's :)) as a character won't make a difference.

Exactly.  If no one is talking about Sam, Dean or Cas its because there have been no spoilers for them.  I can't remember the last time the writers talked about Sam and Dean or we had an interview that didn't focus on Wayward or Jack.  They've taken over the show and Sam and Dean are now there to facilitate their stories.

[catrox14]

ETA: And I'm really wondering what kind of shenanigans are going to take place with Dean, Sam and Cas that are not being spoiled thus far.  Is the lack of spoilers because everyone in the show is all about the spinoff and it's that TFW is being used to prop that spinoff more than anything or something HUGE is coming for TFW that they are worried will be upsetting? It's definitely weird.

14 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Exactly.  If no one is talking about Sam, Dean or Cas its because there have been no spoilers for them.  I can't remember the last time the writers talked about Sam and Dean or we had an interview that didn't focus on Wayward or Jack.  They've taken over the show and Sam and Dean are now there to facilitate their stories.

[gonzosgirrl]

12 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

ETA: And I'm really wondering what kind of shenanigans are going to take place with Dean, Sam and Cas that are not being spoiled thus far.  Is the lack of spoilers because everyone in the show is all about the spinoff and it's that TFW is being used to prop that spinoff more than anything or something HUGE is coming for TFW that they are worried will be upsetting? It's definitely weird.

IMO Dabb has been writing to, for and about his precious spin-off for a long time. IMO, he cares about his legacy, not Supernatural's, not the characters of Dean and Sam Winchester and most certainly not Jensen and Jared's. I'll eat my hat if there are any big revelations or arcs coming for either of the brothers, and put an old shoe on top of it if there is anything for Dean (apart from using him as an archtype for his power-girls to shine against). They haven't quite been the set-decoration that they were in S12, but the lack of any spoilers or even mentions of them without Wayward or Jack in the same breath are glaring (IMO). But they are going to be cartoon characters soon, so I guess there's that?

[bozodegama]

IMO, they are definitely teasing a big bad for the boys this year I think.  Billy said they're important, that they have work to do.  I really doubt it's Asmodeus.  I think it's more like a lot of bad angels from au apocalypse with Michael come to earth.  But I agree that the lack of really Big things for Sam and Dean to do so far are lacking.  

[bozodegama]

They’ve got to kill off this Asmodeus guy. He’s the least scary bad guy I’ve ever seen with no sense of humor.  If your going to replace Crowley, who was hysterically funny, you really need a better bad guy foil than Asmodeus.  Even the Michael au guy is pretty wimpy.  I do love Ketch even with the bogus way he came back.. I just think he’s hysterical, the accent, the psychopath behavior.  He’s just a funny character.  They need more of that this year.  I do think Lucifer is pretty funny.

[MysteryGuest]

I thought Michael was the intended "big bad" for this season?  Of course, we haven't see all that much of him yet. I will be glad when the spin off episodes are over and we can get back to our story.  I obviously haven't paid much attention, but are the WD episodes going to be consecutive or just scattered over the last half of the season?

Asmodeus isn't even on my radar, but I suppose he'll have to play a role later on.  And I honestly almost forgot about Ketch.  We have over half a season to go yet, so I have to believe there will be plenty for Sam and Dean to do.  There are a lot of people that have to be eliminated.  Plus they need to find Mary so we can see how her story ends up.  Then there's Lucifer.  

I'm actually looking forward to Danneel's episodes.  Does anyone know just how many will be in her "arc"?  I know there was some misinformation out on IMDB saying she'd be in every episode, going forward, but that's not correct.  I personally don't feel that she's taken away any of the focus from the show.  I've been enjoying some of the behind-the-scenes stuff she's been sharing with us.  

All things considered, the boys have quite the mess to clean up this season.  I'm going to assume that some will carry over to next year. 

[bozodegama]

I don’t think Michael is the big bad this season.  I think it will end up being the Shadim escaping in the last episode.  Then they will clean up all the monsters in like 2 or 3 episodes next season.   Just my guess.

[Pondlass1]

I'm wondering what they're planning for Jack?  He's proved popular so they may not take him full on evil and upset fans.  In fact he might become Teen Castiel.  My speculation is that he'll save Dean and Sam from some dire predicament and kill Dad Luci in the process. Luci needs to go.

Visiting the Arc worlds could be interesting now that they've shown us different ones... both peaceful and hateful. We could meet up with old adversaries and friends - actors always need gigs.  I don't read spoilers much, but it seems like the Waywards might be more involved with the rift worlds which would make their series a bit more original than a bunch of teen girls battling monsters.

Michael is a bit ho-hum and ordinary.  It would be SO great if Dean could be Michael - I'd take just a few scenes if Dean gets to swing a big heavy sword and wear armour and it's serious and not a joke.

Unfortunately in an effort to turn Mother Mary into super hunter extraordinaire they've ruined her for most fans.  I don't want to see Dean in pain again, so maybe she could float back up to heaven waving a fond farewell at the end of this season. 

I actually enjoy Ketch too.  But the writing tends to take him (and his pal Amadeus) to pantomime mustache twirling arenas and it gets silly not scary. 

Dean and Sam have been told they're important.  And I will admit I'm enjoying this season way more than last and looking forward to new episodes next year.  But - sadly - the Winchesters are no longer the central focus.  Stories tend to swirl around them, rather than them provoking the plot.  It's really noticeable as I re-watch earlier seasons (1-3).

I'm still crossing fingers that the bunker blows up.  If they're going to keep it, then address the open door policy and provide characters such as Cas and Jack their own rooms or suites.  We don't have to see them every episode, just a mention.  And have the boys utilize the wealth of info - Abaddon spent a season trying to get the key.  But Dean and Sam just continue tapping on their laptop while sitting on a treasure trove of supernatural knowledge (supposedly).

*these speculations are not bitter I guess - except that I want the spotlight put back on Dean and Sam to drive the story not just the car. :-)

[DittyDotDot]

12 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

I'm wondering what they're planning for Jack?  He's proved popular so they may not take him full on evil and upset fans.  In fact he might become Teen Castiel.  My speculation is that he'll save Dean and Sam from some dire predicament and kill Dad Luci in the process. Luci needs to go.

I don't think they ever planned Jack to be evil. I still suspect he'll "fix" the alternate universe and create that paradise he showed to Cass last season.

14 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:

I thought Michael was the intended "big bad" for this season?  Of course, we haven't see all that much of him yet.

That seems to be Dabb's MO. Last season we saw hardly anything of the Brits until the back half of the season. So, going by that "pattern" I'm guessing Micheal will become more relevant after the hiatus. I don't think that he'll be the only big bad, but I'm guessing he'll be a baddie of some sort for them to contend with.