All Episodes Talk: Small World, Big Lives

[InternetToughGuy]

I think Amy felt threatened that Matt also found a new relationship; the posts mentioning how Amy doesn't want to "share" the kids with someone else seems a bit hypocritical, if Chris is still around and may start coming over to family gatherings, etc. As for the kids seeming to be fine with a lot of the stuff Matt does, I can relate - my Mom pretty much raised me herself, but even then I don't even feel anger towards my Dad about that and I also dismiss any questionable thing he does; I don't even know why I do this; perhaps it's because I'm more detached from him, whatever he does automatically affects me less. Maybe the Roloff kids feel the same.

[ZoloftBlob]

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I think Amy felt threatened that Matt also found a new relationship; the posts mentioning how Amy doesn't want to "share" the kids with someone else seems a bit hypocritical, if Chris is still around and may start coming over to family gatherings, etc.

I suspect some of the disconnect is that apparently Amy *isn't* now attending family events with Chris in tow as the new rival for the kids affection with Matt, but instead is keeping Chris away from family functions and not insisting the kids all accept Chris as their new daddy who will now be in attendance when Amy is. Amy may also be showing Matt, and the kids, some respect by not inviting her boyfriend to family functions when she's aware that Jeremy and Zach don't entirely approve, and may not want to give Matt the bitch point of "I want to come to function X and be with you kids but Amy is bringing her boyfriend and you know how SHE is" - because I can't NOT see Matt Roloff making the whine that he's not comfortable but he doesn't want to upset Amy, so instead of talking to Amy, he does things like ask Tory to check wth Amy to see if it's ok for Caryn to be invited.... I really suspect not filmed events are kept very very separate.

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Their hesitance to move back is actually kind of odd to me.  I think if they really wanted to move back they would have done so years ago, or at least after they moved back from California. But instead they moved 4(?) hours away and keep talking about when they will move back. They have nothing tying them to any other location yet they claim to be too busy to move back to the farm.

Oh I so have a guess about that :)

A couple of guesses actually.

1. I do think Audrey fell in love with Jeremy when they married. I don't think Audrey fell in love with Jeremy's family AT ALL. I think she's only on board with "moving to the farm" because of the obvious financial advantage it brings her and Jer. When she's got Jeremy by himself, she can continue to shove him into the hipster Christian husband mold. When Jeremy is around Daddy Matt, she loses control of him. Moving to LA and then Bend also nicely separated Jeremy from his pack of buddies. I've often said Jeremy married his father. Audrey is a controller just like Matt.

2. For all Jeremy has insisted he loves the show, the reality is that he's always been babied with how he's depicted on the show, and very little was ever asked of him - if he wanted to do something with friends, he was allowed to bail on family vacations, he was never required to interact with customers at pumpkin season until he was married. Living near the farm means working on the farm and Jeremy really prefers his free and easy lifestyle where he isn't Daddy's new Camerino.

3. To be fair to the Jer and Auj show, they're also trying to establish themselves as hipster Christian speakers and may have been trying to attach themselves to Dale Partridge and his crowd. It will be a little awkward running around Bend for that sort of stuff if they are living in the Portland area.

Edited May 3, 2017 by ZoloftBlob

[Honey]

4 hours ago, Whyyouneedaname said:

Amy was the one that commented that Tori invited Caryn. When Caryn came into Matt's office he said "so you got an invite to the party" she said yes, so I took it to mean she had been invited by Tori.....who knows ;) 

Okay.  I missed the first 15 minutes.  Thanks.

[Honey]

2 hours ago, InternetToughGuy said:

I stand corrected; I had assumed that Matt did the majority of the work and had the majority of the money and Amy raised the kids - had that been the case, I don't think she should be entitled to very much, but I guess that's not how it is.

Even had she "just" raised the kids, I say they still would have been 50/50.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Honey

[ZoloftBlob]

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Even had she "just" raised the kids, I say they still would have been 50/50.

Exactly. I am not a homemaker, I am a career woman myself, but I strongly dislike this notion that Amy as a housewife was "doing nothing" and "Matt was earning the money so it's all his".

I mean, by dint of birthing the children and frankly by being the able bodied one, Amy got all the shitty chores with four really active kids. Matt pretty openly and repeatedly on camera has noted that spending time with his family wasn't a good use of his time, and that he didn't want to be bothered, so a divorce where their assets are split evenly seems pretty *fair* and not "Poor Matt with the lazy bitch wife who took him to the cleaners in the divorce and left him penniless".

Matt only had the opportunity to make money because he left his kids with his wife. Its a little sad that raising the children = "should get less as that's not real work".

[AZChristian]

I'm on the road and not sure I've read every post in this thread.  One reason Caryn may have been invited to the gender reveal party - she and Matt threw a shower for Zach and Tori.  Amy threw a grandma shower for herself; not sure if she was involved in throwing a shower for the actual parents.

So maybe they invited Caryn as a way of thanking her for the shower.

[Honey]

9 hours ago, AZChristian said:

I'm on the road and not sure I've read every post in this thread.  One reason Caryn may have been invited to the gender reveal party - she and Matt threw a shower for Zach and Tori.  Amy threw a grandma shower for herself; not sure if she was involved in throwing a shower for the actual parents.

So maybe they invited Caryn as a way of thanking her for the shower.

This was helpful to know, for me.  I was thinking bad thoughts about Z and T until I read this.  I ONLY want to think bad thoughts about J and A.  Lol

10 hours ago, ZoloftBlob said:

Exactly. I am not a homemaker, I am a career woman myself, but I strongly dislike this notion that Amy as a housewife was "doing nothing" and "Matt was earning the money so it's all his".

I mean, by dint of birthing the children and frankly by being the able bodied one, Amy got all the shitty chores with four really active kids. Matt pretty openly and repeatedly on camera has noted that spending time with his family wasn't a good use of his time, and that he didn't want to be bothered, so a divorce where their assets are split evenly seems pretty *fair* and not "Poor Matt with the lazy bitch wife who took him to the cleaners in the divorce and left him penniless".

Matt only had the opportunity to make money because he left his kids with his wife. Its a little sad that raising the children = "should get less as that's not real work".

I would even go so far as to say that Amy contributed more to the marriage than Matt did.  Raising 4 children as an average height person is no small feat, raising them as an LP is a huge accomplishment.  Especially since 3 of the children are average height.  You have to be a strong parent to make an average height child listen to you, when they're towering over you.

[SunnyBeBe]

I really try to focus on what the cast members of this show and yes, it may be reality, but it's still a show and a fair amount of stuff is contrived, are currently doing.   I doubt that I will change anyone's mind about fault issues during their marriage.  I try to be even handed.  There are some good qualities and bad, as well as plenty of blame to go around with this family.  What I like to see is that life is so much more pleasant, since Amy got a boyfriend.  Man......I can't fault that.  I just hope the kids get on board with it.   

I am baffled that the adult kids have been rather negative about Amy dating as well as her partying at home.  Maybe, that's contrived too.  

[pdlinda1]

It may be producer-driven; however, I was most interested in the last exchange between Amy and Chris where his words and facial expression seemed very tentative and hesitant regarding their "next 6 months."  

My concern is that Amy is going to become "over-involved" with Chris, who, because of his relationship history (or lack of same??) may be commitment-phobic.

Chris may be fine with dating Amy and getting "air-time" on the show, but, perhaps, nothing more.  

Anyhow, Amy has such a sparkle in her eye when describing her relationship with Chris, and her giggles are a sure sign she's in relationship heaven...hope she's not left heartbroken!!

[gunderda]

18 hours ago, InternetToughGuy said:

I stand corrected; I had assumed that Matt did the majority of the work and had the majority of the money and Amy raised the kids - had that been the case, I don't think she should be entitled to very much, but I guess that's not how it is.

So stay at home wives/moms deserve little to nothing....? ouch. 

 

I think Amy's feelings are very normal and at least she's being honest about how hard it is for her and she didn't expect it to be so hard.  Sure their marriage fell apart but I dont think anyone likes a divorce and especially when someone has caused you quite a bit of misery it's not fun when you see them happy with someone else. More so when it's someone who has been your employee.........

[Jellybeans]

I am not concerned about Chris- to me, Amy is doing what she wants.  Sure she may end up heartbroken but everyone has their heart broken at some point.  

I would be more worried about Jeremy and Audrey.

[Honey]

6 hours ago, Jellybeans said:

I am not concerned about Chris- to me, Amy is doing what she wants.  Sure she may end up heartbroken but everyone has their heart broken at some point.  

I would be more worried about Jeremy and Audrey.

Yeah, not seeing a lot of love there.  It was telling when he called her "Miss scheduler" and she said she only does it because he won't.  There is a coldness between them that I don't see between Z&T.  Once the sex winds down, they're done if they aren't friends.

[Raynedon]

I don't remember the details of the long term friction between Amy and Caren, but the first season they opened the farm to customers and they showed all of the chaos that ensued because they weren't prepared/were clueless, it was talked about on camera how Amy wasn't a fan of Caren and vice versa.  Apparently they have quite a history and IMO, Amy still harbors some resentment or distrust of Caren which is what we're seeing on camera now.   Caren was a close confidant of Matt's for years and her relationship with Matt caused problems in their marriage way back when.   I have a feeling that Amy wasn't surprised when it was announced that Matt and Caren were officially seeing each other.  

Edited May 5, 2017 by rayndon

[InternetToughGuy]

18 hours ago, gunderda said:

So stay at home wives/moms deserve little to nothing....? ouch.

I can see an argument for the stay at home Mom, but why would a stay at home wife be entitled to any of the man's money in a divorce settlement? I'm just asking, I'm not trying to start anything, despite what my username is.

11 hours ago, Honey said:

Yeah, not seeing a lot of love there.  It was telling when he called her "Miss scheduler" and she said she only does it because he won't.  There is a coldness between them that I don't see between Z&T.  Once the sex winds down, they're done if they aren't friends.

When the two of them are in the interview segments together, they almost seem mad at each other sometimes. I don't know if it's just the way he is, but Jeremy is always looking at the floor.

[Jellybeans]

53 minutes ago, InternetToughGuy said:

I can see an argument for the stay at home Mom, but why would a stay at home wife be entitled to any of the man's money in a divorce settlement? I'm just asking, I'm not trying to start anything, despite what my username is.

I was a stay at home mother...I gave up my career to raise children.  So when I divorced I was able to get half of "his" money which was really OUR money.  

If I had worked and he stayed home with the kids then he would have earned half of my money.  IMO it goes both ways.

[Ina123]

1 hour ago, InternetToughGuy said:

I can see an argument for the stay at home Mom, but why would a stay at home wife be entitled to any of the man's money in a divorce settlement?

Because she cleans, does the laundry, cooks, grocery shops, etc. It's a long list and it doesn't get done by itself. I'm a single, working woman living by myself. Believe me, that stuff requires time to get done. I often remind my married friends that I actually have to take off work to get an oil change and tires rotated, go to the DMV, errands, errands, errands, etc. If someone is at home (stay at home wife) they are tasked with this. Do. Not. Tell. Me. she does not contribute. Or he, in the case of the stay at home husband.

[ZoloftBlob]

Its also, forgive me, often a false argument that the wife *chooses* to be a stay at home wife. I have dated at least one guy who told me it would offend him greatly if I worked because he's the man and should support me. If I buy into this sort of thinking (and frankly Matt Roloff has this sort of thinking, if you watch the early episodes he was clearly offended when Amy went back to work) and don't work because my husband prefers I don't... then I am due nothing from the marriage that I sacrificed my career for? Because I did what my husband wanted?

But it's still a false point because the original argument was not Amy is a stay at home *wife* and due nothing as Matt earned the money, it was that Amy was a stay at home *mother* and was due nothing as Matt earned the money. Since we pointedly saw Matt dump all the parenting chores off on Amy - his precious "dreaming" was more important than attending family events, he *even said that repeatedly* - and since Amy did work outside the home while Matt was unemployed and since Amy did agree to participate in a reality show that she wasn't originally enthralled with (and without her consent it wouldn't have happened) then yes, Amy as the stay at home *mother* was due some of Matt's money since he wouldn't have had that money if she wasn't doing all the shitty chores that Matt didn't want to be bothered with.

[Ina123]

2 minutes ago, ZoloftBlob said:

... his precious "dreaming" was more important than attending family events, he *even said that repeatedly* ...

He actually couldn't be bothered to attend a graduation ceremony until he was shamed into it (but arrived very late). I know we don't have much respect for the secondary schooling they got, but what kind of parent just blows off a his kid's high school graduation?

[gunderda]

2 hours ago, InternetToughGuy said:

I can see an argument for the stay at home Mom, but why would a stay at home wife be entitled to any of the man's money in a divorce settlement? I'm just asking, I'm not trying to start anything, despite what my username is.

When the two of them are in the interview segments together, they almost seem mad at each other sometimes. I don't know if it's just the way he is, but Jeremy is always looking at the floor.

Because the husband most likely decides the women should stay home instead of work? 

I'm sure it doesn't happen that often that a woman is a stay at home wife and not a mom but that exact situation was just on a show called American Crime and a divorce situation did come up.

[Absolom]

3 hours ago, InternetToughGuy said:

I can see an argument for the stay at home Mom, but why would a stay at home wife be entitled to any of the man's money in a divorce settlement? I'm just asking, I'm not trying to start anything, despite what my username is.

Short answer, when you get married it no longer is his money and her money, it is their money.  Community property is a concept that no longer allows one party in a marriage to treat the other as chattel.  Said as the main wage earner in our marriage.  It acknowledges that both contribute even if it isn't always by income. 

[Literata]

3 hours ago, InternetToughGuy said:

I can see an argument for the stay at home Mom, but why would a stay at home wife be entitled to any of the man's money in a divorce settlement? I'm just asking, I'm not trying to start anything, despite what my username is.

I'm confused as to why this confuses you.

Say your mother had been a stay-at-home mom, raising you and your siblings and running the household, but earning no income. Say your dad left the family. How would you have expected your mother to survive financially? 

[PradaKitty]

Regarding the matter of money - Amy was always careful with the money and didn't go overboard with spending like Matt did.  I'm pretty sure Amy was the one paying the bills at first. I remember in the first season Matt's mother was making something with Nutella  spread and Zach said, "We used to have that before we got poor" (or something to that effect. 

Once the money from the show started rolling in Matt was constantly spending like a drunken sailor, to the pioint where he bought twin Mercedes for himself and Amy. Amy wanted a van, I believe, which suited her lifestyle as a mom with four kids (and the area they live in) much better than a high end Mercedes.

[mamapajama]

15 hours ago, rayndon said:

Apparently they have quite a history and IMO, Amy still harbors some resentment or distrust of Caren which is what we're seeing on camera now.   Caren was a close confidant of Matt's for years and her relationship with Matt caused problems in their marriage way back when.   I have a feeling that Amy wasn't surprised when it was announced that Matt and Caren were officially seeing each other.  

That is the way I remember it, too.  Way back when, Matt and Caryn seemed closer than farm owner / farm manager.  I recall times when the two of them sided against Amy, Amy stormed out of the office, while Caryn stayed behind, doing all she could to fight the urge to roll her eyes, etc.  I think there is a long history of attraction between Matt and Caryn.  In defense of Tori's invite:  Tori met the family as an employee during pumpkin season, so Tori also had a relationship with Caryn.  I think that Amy should have introduced Chris to her children before now.  Six months seems like a long time.  

[Mindthinkr]

4 minutes ago, mamapajama said:

think that Amy should have introduced Chris to her children before now.  Six months seems like a long time.

It might be just as well she didn't if we are to believe the editing on that 'where are we heading' chat. I'd like for both of them to be able to find love and happiness again. Whether or not they can do it in such close proximity remains to be seen. 

[Awfarmington]

14 hours ago, InternetToughGuy said:

I can see an argument for the stay at home Mom, but why would a stay at home wife be entitled to any of the man's money in a divorce settlement? I'm just asking, I'm not trying to start anything, despite what my username is.

When the two of them are in the interview segments together, they almost seem mad at each other sometimes. I don't know if it's just the way he is, but Jeremy is always looking at the floor.

When you get married, most assets after that point become community property, as mentioned. But if that were not the case, the money should still be divided. When I was a stay at home mom for many years, I did all the cooking, cleaning, 90% of the yard work, all the diaper changing, taking kids to doctors, talked to teachers, helped them with their homework, took care of the pets, etc, etc. My husband worked a lot of OT, so he came home, ate dinner and went to bed. He took out the trash once a week and would help with things out in the yard that I couldn't do by myself. Otherwise his only responsibility was his job. He worked all week and often weekends so I didn't want his days off to be filled with chores at home. 

I loved my job of being the CEO of the house and would do it again. But in order for him to work and bring home a paycheck, he needed me to take care of all the domestic jobs. If we were not married, he would have to pay $$$ for a housekeeper, cook, nanny, tutor, landscaper, and who knows what else. Unless the spouse is cutting a check to the other spouse weekly for services rendered, they are due for a nice settlement when divorced. 

[MegD]

On 5/4/2017 at 10:08 AM, SunnyBeBe said:

I am baffled that the adult kids have been rather negative about Amy dating as well as her partying at home.  Maybe, that's contrived too.  

I have seen it before though. I know one situation where Dad was the fun parent from the get go and was a serial adulterer. Dad frequently gave the kids all kinds of cash and things but wasn't ever really around. It was just accepted that he'd have a woman on the side. Meanwhile, Mom was holding the family together as a stay at home mom but had to be the one to tell kids no to things or make them do their homework. Now that their very unhappy marriage has ended, it is a regular complaint about anything Mom does or says because the kids have accepted the narrative that they'd be getting more things from Dad if Mom wasn't taking all of the money and wasting it on Mom's boyfriends (ignoring entirely that Dad's spending sprees and drug habit are what emptied the family coffers).

From the outside, it makes little sense, but I think there's a lot of misplaced blame in some of these divorces. I think also that the kids are used to not having Dad's attention and when Mom finds someone who takes even one tiny iota of attention away, the kids are bound to loathe that person. I think that may be the reason we're seeing the negative attitude towards Chris and the acceptance of Caryn.

[Awfarmington]

7 minutes ago, MegD said:

I have seen it before though. I know one situation where Dad was the fun parent from the get go and was a serial adulterer. Dad frequently gave the kids all kinds of cash and things but wasn't ever really around. It was just accepted that he'd have a woman on the side. Meanwhile, Mom was holding the family together as a stay at home mom but had to be the one to tell kids no to things or make them do their homework. Now that their very unhappy marriage has ended, it is a regular complaint about anything Mom does or says because the kids have accepted the narrative that they'd be getting more things from Dad if Mom wasn't taking all of the money and wasting it on Mom's boyfriends (ignoring entirely that Dad's spending sprees and drug habit are what emptied the family coffers).

From the outside, it makes little sense, but I think there's a lot of misplaced blame in some of these divorces. I think also that the kids are used to not having Dad's attention and when Mom finds someone who takes even one tiny iota of attention away, the kids are bound to loathe that person. I think that may be the reason we're seeing the negative attitude towards Chris and the acceptance of Caryn.

I think you're correct. When we kids, my dad dated and remarried. We didn't care in the least. My mom dated  very little after the divorce, and shortly after stopped dating altogether. But the little she dated, us kids did NOT like it. She was always our primary caregiver and our dad wasn't involved, except occasionally take us camping or other outings. If asked our middle names or birthdate, I doubt he would have known. 

[InternetToughGuy]

Rather than multiquote everyone who quoted me, I'll just leave another post.

My post separated "stay at home mothers" from "stay at home wives" because obviously the two consist of different workloads. For example, I knew one stay at home wife who would sweep the floor once in a while and unload the dishwasher; she didn't cook or do laundry - after her 20 or so minutes of chores, she would play video games or watch TV the whole day and spend the husband's money on fast food and various forms of entertainment; when I asked about it, she thought the contribution was equal. Obviously my example isn't the norm, but taking care of a house for 2 people doesn't require a day job's equivalent of work everyday.

Anyways, a stay at home Mother gets everything paid for in exchange for taking care of the house/kids during the day - that's equal, though when the kids are old enough to go to school, it's not equal anymore. How is expecting the ex-husband to keep paying for someone he is not with or getting anything out of anymore fair in any way? It's not, but anyone who is receiving or likely to receive alimony, even in a hypothetical divorce scenario would not care to examine how it isn't fair, because they're benefiting from it.

In case anyone thinks I am biased, my Mom stayed at home to take care of me and my brother until we were old enough for school and then she got a job (a better paying one than my Dad) and she also made meals, cleaned the house, etc. I'm not saying the woman should be doing more than the man either, I'm just saying that my posts aren't coming from seeing my poor old Father coming home from slave labor and seeing my Mom sipping on a Long Island Iced Tea while Oprah was on, because it was never like that.

 

6 hours ago, Awfarmington said:

When you get married, most assets after that point become community property, as mentioned. But if that were not the case, the money should still be divided. When I was a stay at home mom for many years, I did all the cooking, cleaning, 90% of the yard work, all the diaper changing, taking kids to doctors, talked to teachers, helped them with their homework, took care of the pets, etc, etc. My husband worked a lot of OT, so he came home, ate dinner and went to bed. He took out the trash once a week and would help with things out in the yard that I couldn't do by myself. Otherwise his only responsibility was his job. He worked all week and often weekends so I didn't want his days off to be filled with chores at home. 

I loved my job of being the CEO of the house and would do it again. But in order for him to work and bring home a paycheck, he needed me to take care of all the domestic jobs. If we were not married, he would have to pay $$$ for a housekeeper, cook, nanny, tutor, landscaper, and who knows what else. Unless the spouse is cutting a check to the other spouse weekly for services rendered, they are due for a nice settlement when divorced. 

Unless you sleep outside and eat out of the garbage, the free room and board you receive is "payment for service"; what kind of narrative do you tell yourself?

[Mindthinkr]

3 hours ago, InternetToughGuy said:

that's equal, though when the kids are old enough to go to school, it's not equal anymore

I politely disagree. The planning of meals and cooking, laundry, cleaning the house, fixing of lunch boxes, driving or getting them to the school bus on time, chauffeuring to after school activities (sports, scouting, and play dates), going over their homework, school projects, teacher's meetings, (optional) PTA or parent teacher meetings, school projects (remember the silly volcanoes that erupted with vinegar added to baking soda?), shopping for clothes, policing the internet use etc....you do not think all of this is a continuation of the job of being a mother? Sure the children at some point will go to school. This doesn't mean a slack period for the mother. It just frees her hands, so to speak, so she can get her jobs done without "help" or interruption. 

[Awfarmington]

5 hours ago, InternetToughGuy said:

Rather than multiquote everyone who quoted me, I'll just leave another post.

My post separated "stay at home mothers" from "stay at home wives" because obviously the two consist of different workloads. For example, I knew one stay at home wife who would sweep the floor once in a while and unload the dishwasher; she didn't cook or do laundry - after her 20 or so minutes of chores, she would play video games or watch TV the whole day and spend the husband's money on fast food and various forms of entertainment; when I asked about it, she thought the contribution was equal. Obviously my example isn't the norm, but taking care of a house for 2 people doesn't require a day job's equivalent of work everyday.

Anyways, a stay at home Mother gets everything paid for in exchange for taking care of the house/kids during the day - that's equal, though when the kids are old enough to go to school, it's not equal anymore. How is expecting the ex-husband to keep paying for someone he is not with or getting anything out of anymore fair in any way? It's not, but anyone who is receiving or likely to receive alimony, even in a hypothetical divorce scenario would not care to examine how it isn't fair, because they're benefiting from it.

In case anyone thinks I am biased, my Mom stayed at home to take care of me and my brother until we were old enough for school and then she got a job (a better paying one than my Dad) and she also made meals, cleaned the house, etc. I'm not saying the woman should be doing more than the man either, I'm just saying that my posts aren't coming from seeing my poor old Father coming home from slave labor and seeing my Mom sipping on a Long Island Iced Tea while Oprah was on, because it was never like that.

 

Unless you sleep outside and eat out of the garbage, the free room and board you receive is "payment for service"; what kind of narrative do you tell yourself?

If a stay at home parent were to be working in a career rather than holding down the fort, they would certainly be making more than 'room and board'. He/she would also have the income for a vehicle, retirement, and a house of his/her own for a long term investment.

 

Even a nanny (in charge of 1 child) makes room and board PLUS a wage. That's what I was doing in my former life. I worked for a professional couple. 25 years years ago, it was room and board, a car to use, lots of extras (I was treated like family) and $5 an hour. I can tell you my job then was much less work than being in charge of a household. And I made more than food to eat and a place to lay my head at night. 

I don't want to give the impression that I felt like a martyr in any way. Yes it was a lot of work with 5 kids, but it was a labor of love. Also my husband recognized that we were equal partners in the contribution to the household and always used the phrase 'our money'. Now that my kids are older, I'll be going back to school for a profession that will be making more than my husband. But it will still remain our money as long as we are married.   

[ZoloftBlob]

I also disagree in that you're discounting the reality that a mother who returns to work after staying home to raise the children rarely ever makes up for the lost time at her career - a sacrifice the husband didn't have to make. The mother returning to the work force is also usually the one who has to sacrifice job time for kid related issues as she makes less money so it hurts less for her to leave work early because of a sick kid.

As it relates to the show, your views on stay at home wives with no children (a rarity these days) doesn't matter in the slightest as it is NOT the situation in the Roloff family and you did not differentiate between the two. Amy was raising not one but four children and at times was working multiple jobs and you deemed her as some sort of grasping bitch for wanting more than nothing from "Matt's money" because being a mother was "doing nothing".

As for stay at home wives who don't cook and clean to a man's pleasure, that's a rare circumstance and frankly an argument that perhaps people should get to know and talk to their potential spouses about their marriage expectations before they tie the knot. If that's not a situation a man wants to be in, then maybe he should ask questions before he marries. Because trust me, I see Judge Judy screaming "well, you picked him!" at women every day over their cases with their loser exes who don't pay child support or work. If its ok to shame a woman over a bad choice, then men need to remember when they divorce and that slattern bitch who never worked and never cleaned the house gets 50 percent that he's the one who picked her..

Because trust me - no one ever hesitates to tell a woman its her fault for picking badly.

Edited May 6, 2017 by ZoloftBlob

[Literata]

I had the most recent episode on again in the background while I did some other stuff, and I stopped when I heard Amy talking  about Chris. She sounded, and looked, absolutely giddy. She deserves that, and it got me thinking.

In long-ago episodes, she talked about having been hired for an internship only to be told, when her employer saw her, that there was suddenly no internship. She recalled having been afraid, when she gave birth to the twins, that "someone would come and take them away" because she was little.

And then there's the fact that Matt wasn't exactly a self-esteem-affirming kind of spouse, and I imagine this is the first time she's felt attractive and desirable and not "less than" in a long time. Chris clearly doesn't see her stature as a liability, nor should he. 

And it all makes me want to slap the shit out of Jeremy for being small-minded and judgmental, and it makes me want to look Chris in the eye and say, "Please don't fuck with her."

No, her self-esteem shouldn't be dependent on the approval of any man, or any other person, period. But she's clearly needed external validation. She's human, and we all get that.

In my TV fantasies, Jeremy meets Chris and gets crossways with him, and Chris puts him in his place, telling him he owes his mother his support and respect, especially given that Matt's dating as well -- and dating an employee, no less, and probably has been "dating" her for a very long time. 

I'm ready for Amy to get her happy ending, whatever she decides that looks like to her.

[ZoloftBlob]

Quote

In my TV fantasies, Jeremy meets Chris and gets crossways with him, and Chris puts him in his place, telling him he owes his mother his support and respect, especially given that Matt's dating as well -- and dating an employee, no less, and probably has been "dating" her for a very long time. 

I wouldn't mind seeing this either, but the producers (Matt) aren't going to allow Jer to be depicted badly. The story TLC is selling is that this is still a happy family despite the divorce. And I am utterly certain Matt won't be ok with the show suggesting he was anything but a good decent Christian man who found love *after* the divorce. I'm actually a bit surprised he agreed to the depiction of Caryn at all - there's no way people aren't side eying this. Frankly if the kids aren't side eying Matt about this, then they are way way dumber than I ever thought.

Frankly, my tv fantasy would be Jeremy in the confessional being poked and prodded on what he genuinely thinks of Matt's new relationship and how he feels that impacts his own stated marital advice business - and why Jeremy tells people on his marital blog to be open and honest with a spouse especially about money but Jer Bear never stands up to Daddy Matt when Matt cheerfully tells him to lie to his mother about Matt's recent purchases that Matt wants kept secret? I mean, it's hard to take Jeremy's advice seriously when he won't stand for it, or even make an effort to apply it to his parents.

[UsernameFatigue]

Now the scenes last year when Matt was drawing up plans for the new home he wanted to build on the property makes sense. Like some others here, I would be surprised if Matt waited until he and Amy were separated to start a relationship with Caryn. And I would imagine there was an emotional one long before a physical one, which is as much, if not more, hurtful. Seems to me that Matt was looking down the line and not wanting to move Caryn into the DW. 

I love Tori and Zack (they are my fav people on the show) but I don't think they should have invited Caryn to the reveal. Even if she and Matt threw a shower for Tori and Zack, the reveal was at Amy's house. Hardly neutral territory. A rare mistep by those two, IMO. 

[Awfarmington]

On 5/4/2017 at 8:54 PM, rayndon said:

I don't remember the details of the long term friction between Amy and Caren, but the first season they opened the farm to customers and they showed all of the chaos that ensued because they weren't prepared/were clueless, it was talked about on camera how Amy wasn't a fan of Caren and vice versa.  Apparently they have quite a history and IMO, Amy still harbors some resentment or distrust of Caren which is what we're seeing on camera now.   Caren was a close confidant of Matt's for years and her relationship with Matt caused problems in their marriage way back when.   I have a feeling that Amy wasn't surprised when it was announced that Matt and Caren were officially seeing each other.  

Do you recall which season of LPBW this was on? I want to go watch some of the older ones because I really don't recall her. I especially would like to see the episode where she has the keys to the office and Amy doesn't. 

[ZoloftBlob]

The keys to the office thing wasn't on the show. It was something that came out in the court case over Noah's Ark. In a deposition Matt was asked about the barn office (essentially they were trying to establish just how private Matt considered that area of the farm) and Matt said that only he, Caryn, and Molly, had keys to the barn office.

Another interesting tidbit not seen on the show was that when Matt showed up in the Noah's ark episode after Amy had driven off the inspector, he was driven by Caryn. In the episode you'd never know she was on the scene. Which makes me wonder how often she's on the scene but not filmed.

[Mindthinkr]

25 minutes ago, ZoloftBlob said:

The keys to the office thing wasn't on the show. It was something that came out in the court case over Noah's Ark. In a deposition Matt was asked about the barn office (essentially they were trying to establish just how private Matt considered that area of the farm) and Matt said that only he, Caryn, and Molly, had keys to the barn office.

Another interesting tidbit not seen on the show was that when Matt showed up in the Noah's ark episode after Amy had driven off the inspector, he was driven by Caryn. In the episode you'd never know she was on the scene. Which makes me wonder how often she's on the scene but not filmed.

And people wonder why Amy seems cranky a lot of the time? I'd be too if Caryn was always behind the scenes to support Matt. 

[Awfarmington]

1 hour ago, ZoloftBlob said:

The keys to the office thing wasn't on the show. It was something that came out in the court case over Noah's Ark. In a deposition Matt was asked about the barn office (essentially they were trying to establish just how private Matt considered that area of the farm) and Matt said that only he, Caryn, and Molly, had keys to the barn office.

Another interesting tidbit not seen on the show was that when Matt showed up in the Noah's ark episode after Amy had driven off the inspector, he was driven by Caryn. In the episode you'd never know she was on the scene. Which makes me wonder how often she's on the scene but not filmed.

Thanks for the clarification! Matt is such a shady little guy. 

[Awfarmington]

I just found this...would love to see video of Amy chasing some county guy down ?

http://spiritswander.blogspot.com/2010/10/guest-episode-roloff-review-by_25.html?m=1

[ginger90]

1 hour ago, Awfarmington said:

I just found this...would love to see video of Amy chasing some county guy down ?

http://spiritswander.blogspot.com/2010/10/guest-episode-roloff-review-by_25.html?m=1

Response

The following was the response from the Washington County Department of Land Use and Transportation.

 

October 29th, 2010

 

Washington County’s Department of Land Use and Transportation apologizes for the action of our Building Inspector on the Little People, Big World segment aired October 25, 2010. We have also apologized to the Roloff family.

 

Many people are aware that the County and the Roloffs have had numerous interactions related to the land use and building codes enforced by the County. Our highest priority is the safety of our residents. We respond to complaints, particularly regarding potentially unsafe structures. 

 

The Department received calls from nearby residents that a large "Ark like" wooden boat was being placed on site. They expressed concerns about it possibly toppling over and hurting someone. It was in this context that the inspector visited the property. He should have been more cautious about entering the property and he should have identified himself to Mrs. Roloff.

 

Appropriate corrective personnel action was taken. The department is providing additional training and taking other steps to ensure that we live up to a high standard of public service.

 

We would like to note that the program is an edited T.V. show, so some of the facts associated with it may have been omitted for entertainment value.

 

Washington County Department of Land Use and Transportation

LUT is REACHing for excellence in customer service

Reliability Efficiency Assistance Courtesy Honesty

[jumper sage]

On 5/5/2017 at 8:45 AM, ZoloftBlob said:

 

 I have dated at least one guy who told me it would offend him greatly if I worked because he's the man and should support me.

 

The only reason I am quoting this is because all this time I have been picturing you @ZoloftBlob as Zoloftbob.  

Now must rearrange my thoughts.

[Celia Rubenstein]

10 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

  

I love Tori and Zack (they are my fav people on the show) but I don't think they should have invited Caryn to the reveal. Even if she and Matt threw a shower for Tori and Zack, the reveal was at Amy's house. Hardly neutral territory. A rare mistep by those two, IMO. 

 I agree it was a misstep.  And the fact that Tori and/or Zach asked Amy if she minded Caryn attending does not change that.  I mean really what was Amy supposed to say?  If she says she does mind then she looks petty. And if she says it's okay then she is stuck dealing with her ex-husband's side piece in her own house at a family gathering. It was a lose-lose proposition for Amy and Zack and Tori should have realized that. Asking for Amy's permission was really an empty gesture. 

Really, if you think someone has such a big problem with somebody else that you have to ask if they can stand to be in the same room with the person, you should probably just not even bother asking at all. Especially when the room in question happens to be in the first person's own house!

[ginger90]

Since my divorce I have had my ex in my home with his second wife, who he is now divorcing, and his current girlfriend. To some that makes me strange.

[Mindthinkr]

Sometimes divorced parents push aside their feelings and meet at the common ground of doing what is best for the child/children. When my child graduated from HS my ex and his 2nd wife came into my place and cooked said child her favorite dinner in my kitchen. All petty differences were put aside as it was the childs day and we were determined to show her by example of how much she loved, and that adults could get along putting her needs and happiness first. (OT: Then he divorced the second wife...took on #3 and our poor daughter has never heard from him again). This could have been what Amy was doing. Putting ZnT's happiness first and keeping them out of those awkward moments that ex's are sure to have. 

[zenme]

I think it's awesome when divorced  parents put aside differences for the sake of the kids. I'm 46 and my parents divorced when I was 11. They still continue to despise each other and it makes family occasions like graduations, birthdays, and holidays so uncomfortable that I'd rather not have them attend. I still feel like an 11 yr old torn between 2 parents I love. IMHO, Amy just needs to keep her mouth shut and be the bigger (oops!) person and think about what's best for the kids.  Amy is such a nag.

Also, Chris is a lifelong bachelor. Amy shouldn't be surprised when he says he just wants to keep the relationship semi-casual.

[ZoloftBlob]

Quote

And the fact that Tori and/or Zach asked Amy if she minded Caryn attending does not change that.  I mean really what was Amy supposed to say?  If she says she does mind then she looks petty. And if she says it's okay then she is stuck dealing with her ex-husband's side piece in her own house at a family gathering. It was a lose-lose proposition for Amy and Zack and Tori should have realized that. Asking for Amy's permission was really an empty gesture. 

Exactly. If Amy says no, she's the bad guy, and if she says yes, she is put in an awkward situation she didn't want.

The bit of grace I grant Tory and Zach on this is that this request probably came from Matt/TLC production.

I think it's great when divorced people ,make an effort to put the kids happiness above their own. I just really don't think this was something Amy had a choice on and watching Matt taunt and push her in the kitchen, in her home, knowing he was pressing her buttons and smiling a big old shit eating grin on what a fucking little ass he was being tells me this wasn't a good idea

[Celia Rubenstein]

I realized when I made my post people would rush to say parents should put their feelings aside and "think of the children!!!" Ideally, they should ... in most cases 

This is not most cases. 

First of all, it seems the situation is a little fresh. Amy and Matt are not "over" much of anything and still tend to bicker and make others uncomfortable. That's bad enough. Add this Caryn person into the mix and it's even more awkward.

It's my suspicion that she and Matt had an inappropriate relationship before the divorce and Amy has hinted as much, too.  Caryn and Matt seem to have only just gone public with their relationship and I would think it would be obvious to anyone that it was an especially sore subject for Amy at the moment. Do her feelings not merit any consideration at all?

I realize she is an adult, but you know what? So are Zach and Tori. They can read the writing on the wall about what went on between Matt and Caryn and Amy. Yet they want to invite this woman who appears to have been their Dad's side piece right under their mother's nose into their mother's house before the ink is barely dry on the divorce. The same chick who worked for (against?) Amy all those years on the farm, gettin' all cozy with in the barn with the ex ... the same ex who is now moaning about how he shouldn't have let Amy keep the house and who is now trying to push her out of it.  Let's ask Mom if she minds if Dad brings her to the party Mom is throwing for us there! 

I think that's tone deaf as hell.

Caryn is only Matt's (newish) girlfriend anyway. She is not a member of the family or been with him for many years (at least not openly, snort).  And in the kitchen scene with Amy, Matt showed what a little asshole he is by needling her about it.  These are not two people who deserve any kind of consideration in my book. 

Zach and Tori do deserve some consideration, though. I get that. But the fact of the matter is, it's not Zach's fifth birthday party. It's not a super special childhood occasion for a kid so young he shouldn't have to contend with grown up issues. It's not his wedding which is his own event, or his high school graduation which is a public affair.  It's party number three? four? that's being thrown for them before the kid is even born and it is being thrown for them by Amy in her home.  You can speak in ideals and ought to's about parental behavior post-divorce all day long, but I think the ideal thing Tori and Zach ought to have done as post-divorce adult children is not put their mother/MIL in such an awkward and uncomfortable position when she was being gracious enough to host a party for them. Not at this stage, anyway.

There are many decades ahead and there will be plenty of other parties which will provide opportunities for everyone to pull on their big girl panties and deal (Matt and Jeremy included) and show the world how mature and sophisticated they are about dealing with divorces and ex's and their new partners. I just think this particular occasion was a bit too soon (and too family-oriented) to expect Amy to host Matt's longtime mistress new girlfriend in her home.

Edited May 7, 2017 by Celia Rubenstein

[ginger90]

8 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

I realized when I made my post people would rush to say parents should put their feelings aside and "think of the children!!!" Ideally, they should ... in most cases 

This is not most cases. 

First of all, it seems the situation is a little fresh. Amy and Matt are not "over" much of anything and still tend to bicker and make others uncomfortable. That's bad enough. Add this Caryn person into the mix and it's even more awkward.

It's my suspicion that she and Matt had an inappropriate relationship before the divorce and Amy has hinted as much, too.  Caryn and Matt seem to have only just gone public with their relationship and I would think it would be obvious to anyone that it was an especially sore subject for Amy at the moment. Do her feelings not merit any consideration at all?

I realize she is an adult, but you know what? So are Zach and Tori. They can read the writing on the wall about what went on between Matt and Caryn and Amy. Yet they want to invite this woman who appears to have been their Dad's side piece right under their mother's nose into their mother's house before the ink is barely dry on the divorce. The same chick who worked for (against?) Amy all those years on the farm, gettin' all cozy with in the barn with the ex ... the same ex who is now moaning about how he shouldn't have let Amy keep the house and who is now trying to push her out of it.  Let's ask Mom if she minds if Dad brings her to the party Mom is throwing for us there! 

I think that's tone deaf as hell.

Caryn is only Matt's (newish) girlfriend anyway. She is not a member of the family or been with him for many years (at least not openly, snort).  And in the kitchen scene with Amy, Matt showed what a little asshole he is by needling her about it.  These are not two people who deserve any kind of consideration in my book. 

Zach and Tori do deserve some consideration, though. I get that. But the fact of the matter is, it's not Zach's fifth birthday party. It's not a super special childhood occasion for a kid is so young he shouldn't have to contend with grown up issues. It's not his wedding which is his own event, or his high school graduation which is a public affair.  It's party number three? four? that's being thrown for them before the kid is even born and it is being thrown for them by Amy in her home.  You can speak in ideals and ought to's about parental behavior post-divorce all day long, but I think the ideal thing Tori and Zach ought to have done as post-divorce adult children is not put their mother/MIL in such an awkward and uncomfortable position when she was being gracious enough to host a party for them. Not at this stage, anyway.

There are many decades ahead and there will be plenty of other parties which will provide opportunities for everyone to pull on their big girl panties and deal (Matt and Jeremy included) and show the world how mature and sophisticated they are about dealing with divorces and ex's and their new partners. I just think this particular occasion was a bit too soon (and too family-oriented) to expect Amy to host Matt's longtime mistress new girlfriend in her home.

Yup, there's a bunch of ways to look at it. I personally didn't have a tv show to play for, Amy does! I thjink probably at least 75% of what she says, her reactions and such , are in the invisible script, tHough.

Edited May 7, 2017 by ginger90

[Celia Rubenstein]

2 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

Yup, there's a bunch of ways to look at it. I personally didn't have a tv show to play for, Amy does! I thjink probably at least 75% of what she says, her reactions and such , are in the invisible script.

True, and Zoloft made a good point about how production probably put Tori and Zach up to inviting Caryn.  The real conversation was probably more along the lines of ...

Tori:  "hey Amy, the producers think it would create an awesome scene filled with dramatic tension if we had Caryn at the party.  Are you willing to put yourself through it for the good of the show?"

Amy: " hell yeah, show me the money!" 

Tori: "I hope people don't really believe I would actually be insensitive enough to invite her into your home  ..."

Amy: "don't worry, they know this show is fake as hell. And if they forget, Zoloftblob will remind them!"

Tori: "I love Zoloftblob!"

Amy: "you know, for the longest time I thought it was Zoloft BOB" 

Tori: " me too!"  

Then they collapsed laughing and spent the rest of the day trash talking Jer and Audrey. 

[ZoloftBlob]

Well, I think the tv forces some of these invites. Without the cameras? I'm sure Amy would have said no to that request that theoretically came from Zach and Tory. Likewise on the incident last year where the kids were "we're having game night at Dad's SHOULD WE INVITE MOM????" - no, that wouldn't have happened, and neither would the awkward, uncomfortable Hawaiian vacation where Matt kept insisting HE WAS OK WITH DOING STUFF AS A FAMILY BECAUSE HES SO MUCH BETTER THAN OTHER DIVORCEES!

Without the cameras, I think these two would genuinely avoid each other. I mean really, the very idea that Amy is wandering around the farm to tell Matt she's having friends over? It's her house, and they're divorced. Who does that? In real life? Now I do know some divorced couples who vacation together still... but I am gonna be honest and say a) that's still rare and b) the couple in my life that does this had a really amicable parting where we didn't even know they were considering divorce.

Quote

I just think this particular occasion was a bit too soon (and too family-oriented) to expect Amy to host Matt's longtime mistress new girlfriend in her home

This. And add in the fact that Amy pointedly isn't shoving Chris in Matt's face and didn't invite Chris because she felt the event was too family oriented and didn't want to detract from Zach and Tory - Matt hauling Caryn in was the equivalent of Amy bringing poor Mike Detjen as her date (and I admit I wondered about them having an emotional affair at the time)

Quote

Tori: "I hope people don't really believe I would actually be insensitive enough to invite her into your home  ..."

Amy: "don't worry, they know this show is fake as hell. And if they forget, Zoloftblob will remind them!"

Tori: "I love Zoloftblob!"

Amy: "you know, for the longest time I thought it was Zoloft BOB" 

Tori: " me too!"  

I'm literally LOL! :D

Edited May 7, 2017 by ZoloftBlob
LOL!