S14.E13: Top 6 Perform

[displayname]

1 minute ago, Tikichick said:

So the Cuban is appropriate for the style of samba they were doing?

Not sure about that. Assumed so based on the fact that DWTS pros choreographed it.

[realdancemom]

3 hours ago, Tikichick said:

I'm not going based on what I want to see.   I'm basing my suspicions on what the picture might have looked like weeks back, possibly even to the actual time of Academy, with production's guesses as to who would be in it come finale.  I think money was down for Lex and Logan, and it's likely Mia is familiar with both, or Lex at the very least.  Of course it could be a Lex/Taylor number since she is also a known commodity.  I just don't credit her being able to sell it -- I mean Robert has had his hands full this season trying to sell their routines -- and it ain't her technique holding them back!

I see where you're going.  Maybe, they did secure Mia because she wanted to choregraph a Lex and Logan routine or at least a routine with Lex.  I believe in Gaby's season, the show assumed that Jim was going to be in the finals.  So it was planned that Jim and Alex were going to do a routine together and they probably planned it for the Top 4 show.  Jim didn't make it but they did their duet in the finale anyway.  Loved both of them in it especially the ending leap sequence.  However, I would have preferred a ballet choreographer so we would have had a contemporary ballet routine instead of a Travis contemporary routine.

[Mason]

15 hours ago, spanana said:

Also while it may be crass, Nigel's critiques are often based off of his lower anatomy and what females he finds hot.  

Actually, Nigel has been pretty careful about what he's said this season.

[realdancemom]

Glad Koine is in the finals but I wished Logan took Kiki's or even Taylor's place.

The samba was a mess.  I will say that Gaby and Lex's chemistry has improved last week and this week.  At least, it looks like they're having fun while interacting with each other.  However, I can't see him doing a number like Koine/Marko's or Allison/Logan's.  I think where Logan was taking the rose from Allison or the very ending part of their dance would have made Lex uncomfortable.  The whole Koine/Marko routine would not have worked with Lex.    Loved that number although I agree that it could have been cleaner.  A lot of the dances could have been especially number like Christopher Scott's that require synchronization.  But they had so many numbers to learn in one week.

This is why I would like Koine to win.  If this was a solo competition, then I think Lex should win hands down.  His solos are amazing and he's really good in group routines.  But I don't think he a good partner or an all around performer.  By the latter, I'm talking about being able to exude different personalities/characters including sexy.  I do think he's versatile although he hasn't really proven himself in ballroom.

Koine has solid technique, versatile, great performer, and has great chemistry with Marko.  I had a feeling that she would have disco but I expected it would have been with Marko.  I think they would have been great with it.  I was afraid when it was announced that it was going to be Lex and Koine since I don't think Lex is good with lifts.  It wouldn't have been a problem if Mandy and Val choreographed it.  Then it would have been like the group routine.  A cheesy routine with a few lifts.  Doriana's disco is mostly all lifts and now Lex is injured.  I hope that he is well enough to perform next week.

The jazz really exposed Kiki.  He couldn't hide behind doing a specific character like in his hip-hop or Travis' jazz routine.  He didn't have canes to catch either. It was a very strip down version of jazz and it still wasn't good.  Now, we see Nigel also saying that Kiki should be on DWTS.  I think Jenna, Val, and his partner talked him into doing SYTYCD.  He said that he wasn't going to do it.  Jenna and Val probably said that troupe members need to be cross-trained now and he can do a crash course of it in SYTYCD.   Then you have the All-Stars picking and Jenna chooses him after a disastrous hip-hop.  Anybody else would have been instantly cut.

Taylor is a beautiful contemporary technical dancer.  She is also bland as a performer.  Logan was a better mover in their duet.  I'm not even talking about comparing technique.  I'm talking about their dance movement.  Logan was more open and grounded.  Mark seems to produce one good routine and then one WTF routine each season he choreographs two numbers.  He did that great I Am The Best routine with Jenna and then did a weird alien one with Jasmine and Amy on the same season.    

[cali1981]

3 hours ago, fan94 said:

Logan/Allison Contemporary: Allison needed someone who could've matched her every step of the way, because she made Logan seem not-so-good. Not the most interesting choreography.
 

I've wondered about whether there has been a perception on the part of some of the voting public that Allison has "carried" Logan to some extent even if it's not true.  Allison has been an absolute beast this season. She's dancing as well, if not better than she ever has.  Logan is such a small guy that it might be easy to not take one's eyes off of Mrs. Twitch.  If this is the situation, it's unfair but it is what it is.  Logan is a wonderful dancer who has a serious upside in terms of growth. I suspect that he'll do just fine.  

Regarding Doriana Sanchez, I've always enjoyed her work but if Lex is injured, the producers should rethink her participation.  Can you imagine what might have happened if Lex and Koine were given a number similar to Janette and Brandon's in S5?  It's a miracle that neither of them were injured even though they just crushed the routine.

Overall, once the auditions and team selections were finished, this has been a pretty good season but, unfortunately that hasn't been reflected in the ratings.  I hope that Fox gives SYTYCD another season.  in terms of quality, it's earned it.

[luvthepros]

3 hours ago, fan94 said:

Lex seems fine, here: 

Odd Lex and Gaby chose not to mention Lex's injury or injuries. I know I saw him limping off stage and saw the pained look on his face.

[luvthepros]

3 hours ago, Tikichick said:

Maybe someone who knows can tell me if I'm off base here, but was it odd for Lex not to be in a Cuban heel for the samba?  Maybe I'm just unfamiliar with the style of samba being presented last night, but the shoes really threw me off.

Don't even get me started on the costumes for that number.  They gave them a hideous look last week as well.

Men dancing Samba should wea Cuban heels so it makes it easier for them to dance on the balls of their feet. Cuban heels helps to man to be grounded in Latin style dancing. I wish Lex were in Cuban heels. That is up to the choreographer to make sure their dancers are in proper regalia.

Billy Bell wore Cuban heels for his Jive with Anya and Billy is a contemporary dancer.

Edited September 12, 2017 by luvthepros

[luvthepros]

3 hours ago, fan94 said:

Thought so, too, but then his foot was clearly injured during his solo. Maybe that had something to do with it, especially because he was wearing appropriate shoes in his AT.

I hadn't thought of that. Yes, Lex has a foot injury and it wasn't mentioned on the show (although the bandaging of his foot was quite evident). Also....I noticed Lex wearing tape on his shoulder which makes sense because he mentioned something about a rotator cuff injury when questioned by Cat about how he was. She knew something was wrong after the Disco routine and so did Nigel.

[displayname]

30 minutes ago, luvthepros said:

Odd Lex and Gaby chose not to mention Lex's injury or injuries. I know I saw him limping off stage and saw the pained look on his face.

He probably rested up and got iced before that interview. The injuries might be old ones, aggravated here by the lift-heavy discos, so he might be used to them.

[luvthepros]

19 minutes ago, fan94 said:

He probably rested up and got iced before that interview. The injuries might be old ones, aggravated here by the lift-heavy discos, so he might be used to them.

Hopefully Lex will be healthy enough to compete in the finale at peak level.

[displayname]

3 hours ago, realdancemom said:

Glad Koine is in the finals but I wished Logan took Kiki's or even Taylor's place.

The samba was a mess.  I will say that Gaby and Lex's chemistry has improved last week and this week.  At least, it looks like they're having fun while interacting with each other.  However, I can't see him doing a number like Koine/Marko's or Allison/Logan's.  I think where Logan was taking the rose from Allison or the very ending part of their dance would have made Lex uncomfortable.  The whole Koine/Marko routine would not have worked with Lex.    Loved that number although I agree that it could have been cleaner.  A lot of the dances could have been especially number like Christopher Scott's that require synchronization.  But they had so many numbers to learn in one week.

This is why I would like Koine to win.  If this was a solo competition, then I think Lex should win hands down.  His solos are amazing and he's really good in group routines.  But I don't think he a good partner or an all around performer.  By the latter, I'm talking about being able to exude different personalities/characters including sexy.  I do think he's versatile although he hasn't really proven himself in ballroom.

Koine has solid technique, versatile, great performer, and has great chemistry with Marko.  I had a feeling that she would have disco but I expected it would have been with Marko.  I think they would have been great with it.  I was afraid when it was announced that it was going to be Lex and Koine since I don't think Lex is good with lifts.  It wouldn't have been a problem if Mandy and Val choreographed it.  Then it would have been like the group routine.  A cheesy routine with a few lifts.  Doriana's disco is mostly all lifts and now Lex is injured.  I hope that he is well enough to perform next week.

The jazz really exposed Kiki.  He couldn't hide behind doing a specific character like in his hip-hop or Travis' jazz routine.  He didn't have canes to catch either. It was a very strip down version of jazz and it still wasn't good.  Now, we see Nigel also saying that Kiki should be on DWTS.  I think Jenna, Val, and his partner talked him into doing SYTYCD.  He said that he wasn't going to do it.  Jenna and Val probably said that troupe members need to be cross-trained now and he can do a crash course of it in SYTYCD.   Then you have the All-Stars picking and Jenna chooses him after a disastrous hip-hop.  Anybody else would have been instantly cut.

Taylor is a beautiful contemporary technical dancer.  She is also bland as a performer.  Logan was a better mover in their duet.  I'm not even talking about comparing technique.  I'm talking about their dance movement.  Logan was more open and grounded.  Mark seems to produce one good routine and then one WTF routine each season he choreographs two numbers.  He did that great I Am The Best routine with Jenna and then did a weird alien one with Jasmine and Amy on the same season.    

Quoted you to say that I agree with all of this. 

 

(Well except that Koine should win, but that's just preference.)

[realdancemom]

5 minutes ago, fan94 said:

Quoted you to say that I agree with all of this. 

 

(Well except that Koine should win, but that's just preference.)

If not Koine, then Lex.  And as I mentioned above, I picked Koine for a SYTYCD competition.  If it was a solo competition, it would be Lex.  I just hope Lex can perform to his full potential.

[displayname]

For me Lex, then Koine (though I completely acknowledge that she's better at the SYTYCD game). Then Taylor, if I like her non-Robert dances. I like Kiki, but he's outclassed at this point, so he should be fourth.

 

If Mia's really there to prop up Lex and bus Kiki, then this is probably what's going to happen. 

Edited September 12, 2017 by fan94

[Mason]

5 hours ago, realdancemom said:

He didn't have canes to catch either.

Anyone else wonder how Kiki managed to catch all those canes without wearing his glasses??!!

[Rahul]

Fuck you, show. I'm so sick and tired of the judges uttering heaps upon heaps of praise upon Kiki when his dancing does nothing to warrant it. Observant viewers will notice he does very little dancing in his numbers...it's mainly posturing, strutting, some lifting and this week he was literally *hiding* behind Jenna for much of the sequence. What gives?! Why is this dilettante in the top 10, let alone the top 3? Both Lex and Logan could dance circles around him--Kiki cannot do even a fraction of what they can. The only explanation I can think of is some clandestine handshake deal between FOX and ABC to cross-promote DWTS if they pick Kiki up next year. (Thankfully I don't watch DWTS.)

I'm furious this fool took Logan's spot in the final. Logan's numbers were the only ones I truly enjoyed tonight. I thought he was fantastic in the contemporary piece will Allison--the music, the choreography, the lighting, the costuming--everything just worked for me. I didn't want that number to end. I disagree with Nigel--I felt both Allison and Logan were highly evocative in it, although I suspect Nigel was just trying to deliver Logan a blow so he could justify supporting his unabashed favorite, Lex. Logan was also quite good in Mark Kanumera's choreography.

I'm thrilled Koine made the finals, but I knew she had the spot clinched when they had already decided upon two other males for the final four. This show will do almost anything to avoid same sex pairings--especially male-male.

Wishing Lex a speedy recovery. He limped off-stage--that was a hell of a lot more than just a "rotator cuff" injury.

[displayname]

 

Maybe Mia can choreograph something balletic for him. Like how Danny moved in his duet with Neil.

[Andie1]

On 9/12/2017 at 0:15 AM, crossover said:

I've always liked the 1st bollywood--S4 Josh/Katee.  There will never be a disco as good as S5 Brandon/Janette.  I even liked Ade/Melissa's.  S1 and S3 had good disco routines but I don't think they were Doriana??  At least, S1 and S3 didn't have all the lifts.

Even Janette had a near miss on that Disco, and she's a salsa specialist right at home with uber daring lifts and tricks

5 hours ago, realdancemom said:

If not Koine, then Lex.  And as I mentioned above, I picked Koine for a SYTYCD competition.  If it was a solo competition, it would be Lex.  I just hope Lex can perform to his full potential.

We are on the same page. I would have liked Logan in there,  Kiki stole his spot

[Andie1]

8 hours ago, luvthepros said:

Men dancing Samba should wea Cuban heels so it makes it easier for them to dance on the balls of their feet. Cuban heels helps to man to be grounded in Latin style dancing. I wish Lex were in Cuban heels. That is up to the choreographer to make sure their dancers are in proper regalia.

Billy Bell wore Cuban heels for his Jive with Anya and Billy is a contemporary dancer.

Cuban heels are normally right but this dance choreography was a hybird of Ballroom Samba, we saw botofogo a Samba run, a few Voltas...but also some tricks and leaps not Samba- but very Sasha Farber who was in Burn the Floor, and for me, whenever Lex is in character shoes he seems to slide around, so Sasha was probably right in giving him low heeled shoes.  Still shoes however, so that he could get some momentum doing some work like a bachacata, but ballroom guys doing this type of Samba would have been barefoot, because having accomplished the technique, barefoot is a creative choice that would have looked better.   Here's Henry Byalikov (ballroom) and Vanessa (contemporary dancer) from SYTYCD Austraila doing the Jason Gilkison choreo (artistic director of Burn the floor) and they are both barefoot.  It is interesting to see this because the choreographer adapts to the strengths of the dancers.  I think Jason has done really outstanding fusion choreography so that it looks right on all types of dance.  For example the gorgeous lines and developee from Vanessa could only be done by someone who has classical or contemp training. 

Then when Henry repeats the dance with a Ballroom specialist, Giselle Peacock, for another competition she wears latin heels but Henry decides to stay barefoot. Giselle has that very crisp clean snap of a latin dancer, very different from Vanessa and yet I liked both dancers for different reasons. Vanessa for a steath tiger character development and Giselle for just balls out latin 

Edited September 13, 2017 by Andie1

[Andie1]

On 9/11/2017 at 11:42 PM, spanana said:

don't mind if they keep disco as a style.  Just get somebody other than Doriana to choreograph.

Agree Lacey and Cameron's Hustle from Season 3 was incredibly well choreographed by Maria Torres.  This is likable disco. 

[Zuleikha]

Why is this dilettante in the top 10, let alone the top 3? Both Lex and Logan could dance circles around him--Kiki cannot do even a fraction of what they can.

And they can't do what Kiki can do. They do different dance styles. I do think Logan's done well and I wish he was in the top 4, but Lex is in a partner dance competition and he can't partner. I love his solo work, but if there is anyone who is wrongly in the top 4, IMHO it's Lex. 

[Andie1]

Lex is probably one of the most interesting and accomplished soloists the show has seen.  Kiki by contrast is not even on my radar as a top 10  dancer on this show.  Pasha, Artem, Ryan, Paul, Allan, even Serge were better ballroom technicians, and they didn't suck so hard at other styles.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

13 hours ago, CleverUserName975 said:

Ah, well, I guess I should have gotten myself in gear and created the macro for "Kiki could take a big stinky poop on the stage and still be praised to high heaven" to save some typing time. I don't dislike him I just don't see the level of dance talent I see in the others and most importantly, I don't get the impression he's enjoying himself--even in his own style.

Doriana, I'm old and I was there for disco. Yes, some folks did lots of lifts and tricks but for the most part it was us in all our glitter-wedged, platform-shoe, qiana-fabriced dress (sprayed with Aquanet so our clothes didn't stick to our pantyhose), frosted lipstick glory enjoying dancing with a partner and TOUCHING each other after years of dancing being gyrating in each other's general vicinity. We had silly, happy fast-dancing fun and for the most part the injuries were minor. That's the disco I'd like to see.

My adorable 82 year old mom watches the show and this is the call I got last night:

Mom: Jenna is Drusilla.

Me: What? No that's not her last name.

Mom: Drusilla, from Buffy, she looks like her. I keep expecting her to say "Spoik, oiy want to dance wif dolly."

And now I can't not see Jenna/Drusilla. Don't get me wrong, I think Jenna and Juliet Landau are both very pretty but it's in my head and I kinda want to see her in a Buffy-themed dance.

Yes to all of this! Kiki could sit on a bench and do nothing for 90 seconds while Jenna dances around him and the judges would still praise him.

I don't mind lifts, but I hate that the show has become so focused on lifts and that kind of partner dancing. If you aren't experienced at doing lifts, it can be really difficult to master on its own, but it's even worse when there's such a major time constraint and your body is already fatigued from weeks of being on this show. I always felt bad for Ade back in S5 because as good as he was at dancing, he was often relegated to the role of forklift doing lift after lift in dance after dance.

I love your mom and now I really want to see a BtVS dance!

15 hours ago, Tikichick said:

Actually I think Doriana has been the disco choreographer since season one.  I remember being stunned that the very slight Nick Lazzarini could manage the lifts so well and wondered if it was possible because he and Melody were so used to working together.

Yes, Doriana has been the disco choreographer since S1. She choreographed the Nick/Kamilah, Melody/Blake, and Nick/Melody disco routines way back then and although they had lifts, the routines weren't quite the nonstop liftapaloozas that disco has become on this show.

Nick/Kamilah:

Melody/Blake:

Nick/Melody (this one has the signature Doriana franticness):

[Snow Fairy]

8 hours ago, realdancemom said:

If not Koine, then Lex.  And as I mentioned above, I picked Koine for a SYTYCD competition.  If it was a solo competition, it would be Lex.  I just hope Lex can perform to his full potential.

I agree. I want one of them to win. Koine seems so nice and likable, and I liked her routines.

They probably went with Kiki instead of Logan so we don't have all contemporaray dancers in the finale. Like that would be so problematic... For me, Kiki's best routine was last week's with canes. This week something was so off with that jazz, can't tell why

 

Did anyone else notice that in the group routines they often have a big focus on Jenna? Or is it just the camera work?

[luvthepros]

10 hours ago, Mason said:

Anyone else wonder how Kiki managed to catch all those canes without wearing his glasses??!!

Contact lenses maybe. He may wear them when he dances.

[WhineandCheez]

Quote

Did anyone else notice that in the group routines they often have a big focus on Jenna? Or is it just the camera work?

I always thought this also.  Gabby is probably 2nd in focus.  I hardly even see Jasmine, it's a shame.  To be fair, my eye always lands on Jenna, featured or not.  She has a wonderful magnetivity to her (is this a word?)

[crossover]

23 hours ago, Percysowner said:

I was thinking that of all the "street" dancers that have been on the show, Joshua would have made the best partner. However, I'm pretty sure he will never be brought back.

Russell S6 would've been good

[crossover]

21 hours ago, fan94 said:

Logan/Allison Contemporary: Allison needed someone who could've matched her every step of the way, because she made Logan seem not-so-good. Not the most interesting choreography.

 

I'm always amazed how people can see the same thing but come away with different perspectives.  I thought this was the best performance.  Allison was great but Logan was very good as well.  I was surprised how well he related to her.  I don't think there's another contestant who could've done better, including Lex.

[crossover]

21 hours ago, Tikichick said:

I found it preposterous that a dancer could make top ten, go through the cycle of the show and make finale and not be able to perform a leap.  Even back in the days of the pedaling the "street/untrained" dancer stories that has never been the case.  Such an unearned placement for me.

That's why I can't wait to see what they are trying to do with Kiki?  I know the other male contestants can't do ballroom like him.  But they did have to try to do the movements.  The show or someone had the technical movements for contemporary/jazz removed or disguised.  And let's not go to hip hop.

[Drogo]

I like all the remaining dancers, so I'm hoping next week they just eliminate three judges and let four dancers stay/win. 

[displayname]

17 minutes ago, crossover said:

Allison was great but Logan was very good as well.

Well, you said it yourself. Allison was great, but Logan was just very good. It makes sense when you consider that Allison has 20 years of training at this point -- older than Logan himself.

4 minutes ago, Drogo said:

I like all the remaining dancers, so I'm hoping next week they just eliminate three judges and let four dancers stay/win. 

This can work!

[crossover]

1 hour ago, WhineandCheez said:

I always thought this also.  Gabby is probably 2nd in focus.  I hardly even see Jasmine, it's a shame.  To be fair, my eye always lands on Jenna, featured or not.  She has a wonderful magnetivity to her (is this a word?)

I had thought, in the beginning, that Nigel'em were trying to help Jenna get a dwts pro position again (out of the troupe).  He would talk about how good her choreography was, of course her performing skills, kept rewarding Kiki, etc.  So I thought they were trying to feature Jenna on purpose.  But all this does her no good for this season because she'll still be with sytycd when dwts begins.  But there's gotta be a catch somewhere.

[crossover]

11 minutes ago, fan94 said:

Well, you said it yourself. Allison was great, but Logan was just very good. It makes sense when you consider that Allison has 20 years of training at this point -- older than Logan himself.

 

I guess I don't look at it as a "but".  He had more routines to learn and like you said Allison has the years on him.  I was really trying to say how well he and Allison performed this routine.  But I wasn't watching the routine to compare him to Allison.  Come to think of it, I think this was Allison's best performance this season.  Love Dee's choreography.

[displayname]

I didn't care for his movement quality in the routine, and I didn't think it was the most interesting choreography.

[crossover]

5 minutes ago, fan94 said:

I didn't care for his movement quality in the routine, and I didn't think it was the most interesting choreography.

I know.  That's why I said "I'm always amazed how people can see the same thing but come away with different perspectives. "

[spanana]

9 hours ago, Zuleikha said:

And they can't do what Kiki can do. They do different dance styles. I do think Logan's done well and I wish he was in the top 4, but Lex is in a partner dance competition and he can't partner. I love his solo work, but if there is anyone who is wrongly in the top 4, IMHO it's Lex. 

I have to disagree. I agree with the part that neither Logan nor Lex can do what Kiki can do in ballroom.  That is obvious.  But there is some expectation that people coming into this competition should be able to do basic dance moves that cross a number of genres and Kiki hasn't been shown to be able to do even that.  Instead he gets choreographers who continually dumb down "jazz" pieces to make them look like ballroom lite or hide him behind Jenna while she does the heavy lifting.  Or they give him something so character specific so he can be in character and act and hopefully nobody will notice his lack of dancing (hip hop, pop art jazz, etc).  He was finally exposed fully in his jazz this past week since Ray Leper didn't give him a character or props to hide behind. I also think it's expected that Kiki is okay at partnering.  When your prime genre is ballroom, you better be good at partnering the ladies or you would be one sucky ballroom dancer.

Also on an unrelated note, I think Logan did just fine with Allison.  Allison is incredible, that is a given, but I don't think she outdanced Logan to the point that it was a detriment to their dances.  Their biggest detriment was just how young Logan appeared next to her, which often didn't make the romantic storylines particularly believable.  But I wasn't staring at Allison noticeably seeing a Logan that couldn't keep up with her.  I saw that with some other pairings.  Many times Taylor.  Almost always Kiki.  I saw new contestants often outdance their AS- Always Kaylee, Often Lex, etc.  But I didn't particularly notice it with Allison/Logan.

What is funny to me is that Allison is the dancer that used to get fawned over all the time by Nigel and co. and there has been some sort of sudden transference on Jenna where everyone needs to gush over every thing she does as if she is the best dancer in the history of the show.  Which Jenna is a technical and skilled dancer so I'm not begrudging it entirely, but I don't see her as any more special than Allison or Jasmine or Comfort.  Gaby, fine. I don't particularly care for Gaby.  Gaby is that dancer who seems kind of okay at everything and not fabulous at anything.  But I'd watch Allison, Jasmine or Comfort any day over Jenna--unless we are talking ballroom of course.  However I also think some of the over focus on Jenna is coming from Mandy Moore.  She's basically Mandy's assistant and protege so anything Mandy is in charge of will include Jenna front and center.

Edited September 13, 2017 by spanana

[displayname]

12 minutes ago, spanana said:

Also on an unrelated note, I think Logan did just fine with Allison.  Allison is incredible, that is a given, but I don't think she outdanced Logan to the point that it was a detriment to their dances.  Their biggest detriment was just how young Logan appeared next to her, which often didn't make the romantic storylines particularly believable.  But I wasn't staring at Allison noticeably seeing a Logan that couldn't keep up with her.  I saw that with some other pairings.  Many times Taylor.  Almost always Kiki.  I saw new contestants often outdance their AS- Always Kaylee, Often Lex, etc.  But I didn't particularly notice it with Allison/Logan.

True. My comments were for this week in particular.

12 minutes ago, spanana said:

9 hours ago, Zuleikha said:

And they can't do what Kiki can do. They do different dance styles. I do think Logan's done well and I wish he was in the top 4, but Lex is in a partner dance competition and he can't partner. I love his solo work, but if there is anyone who is wrongly in the top 4, IMHO it's Lex. 

I have to disagree. I agree with the part that neither Logan nor Lex can do what Kiki can do in ballroom.  That is obvious.  But there is some expectation that people coming into this competition should be able to do basic dance moves that cross a number of genres and Kiki hasn't been shown to be able to do even that.  Instead he gets choreographers who continually dumb down "jazz" pieces to make them look like ballroom lite or hide him behind Jenna while she does the heavy lifting.  Or they give him something so character specific so he can be in character and act and hopefully nobody will notice his lack of dancing (hip hop, pop art jazz, etc).  He was finally exposed fully in his jazz this past week since Ray Leper didn't give him a character or props to hide behind. I also think it's expected that Kiki is okay at partnering.  When your prime genre is ballroom, you better be good at partnering the ladies or you would be one sucky ballroom dancer.

Also, Lex is excellent at Hip-Hop and Contemporary (and Jazz). Kiki is good at Ballroom (Latin -- no idea about standard) and character work. It's a competition with duets and solos and group dances. Partnering is a part of a few duets, but not all.

Edited September 13, 2017 by fan94

[Tikichick]

23 hours ago, realdancemom said:

I see where you're going.  Maybe, they did secure Mia because she wanted to choregraph a Lex and Logan routine or at least a routine with Lex.  I believe in Gaby's season, the show assumed that Jim was going to be in the finals.  So it was planned that Jim and Alex were going to do a routine together and they probably planned it for the Top 4 show.  Jim didn't make it but they did their duet in the finale anyway.  Loved both of them in it especially the ending leap sequence.  However, I would have preferred a ballet choreographer so we would have had a contemporary ballet routine instead of a Travis contemporary routine.

I so agree.  I was crushingly disappointed because I had been salivating for a Jim/Alex number early on.

[realdancemom]

3 hours ago, spanana said:

I have to disagree. I agree with the part that neither Logan nor Lex can do what Kiki can do in ballroom.  That is obvious.  But there is some expectation that people coming into this competition should be able to do basic dance moves that cross a number of genres and Kiki hasn't been shown to be able to do even that.  Instead he gets choreographers who continually dumb down "jazz" pieces to make them look like ballroom lite or hide him behind Jenna while she does the heavy lifting.  Or they give him something so character specific so he can be in character and act and hopefully nobody will notice his lack of dancing (hip hop, pop art jazz, etc).  He was finally exposed fully in his jazz this past week since Ray Leper didn't give him a character or props to hide behind. I also think it's expected that Kiki is okay at partnering.  When your prime genre is ballroom, you better be good at partnering the ladies or you would be one sucky ballroom dancer.

Also on an unrelated note, I think Logan did just fine with Allison.  Allison is incredible, that is a given, but I don't think she outdanced Logan to the point that it was a detriment to their dances.  Their biggest detriment was just how young Logan appeared next to her, which often didn't make the romantic storylines particularly believable.  But I wasn't staring at Allison noticeably seeing a Logan that couldn't keep up with her.  I saw that with some other pairings.  Many times Taylor.  Almost always Kiki.  I saw new contestants often outdance their AS- Always Kaylee, Often Lex, etc.  But I didn't particularly notice it with Allison/Logan.

I think this show was made for dancers that come from dance studios where the contestant can learn contemporary, jazz, and hip-hop.  Even better, if you go to a studio that also has ballroom like some of the Utah or Miami contestants.  That's why pure ballroom dancers or street trained hip-hop dancers don't do so well.  Even if a contestant has to do something like Broadway, the jazz dancer will do better than a ballroom or hip-hop dancer.  This is especially true since SYTYCD doesn't do Standard anymore. 

I agree with your assessment of Logan and Allison.  Logan pleasantly surprised me.  He's always been good technically but I wondered if he could produce a mature performance.  When they did their Chris Scott hip-hop, they acted like a newlywed couple.  But I still wasn't sure if he could play a more sexual role.  He did just that Monday night.  What Nigel said was BS and I'm glad Mary & Vanessa disagreed.  Kiki couldn't do this dance technically.  Lex could technically do it but no way would he have felt comfortable playing the part.  The part where Logan took the rose from Allison and the ending portion were so intimate.  Allison was sublime in it so I will agree that her movement was better.  But as others have mentioned, she has years of professional experience over Logan.  I would also argue that Allison's dancing to this piece would have been better than most if not all of the other female All-Stars.

I also agree with what you said about the other pairings.  The one exception is that Lex is better than Gaby in genres except ballroom.  Gaby was better in both the AT and Samba.

Edited September 13, 2017 by realdancemom

[spanana]

6 minutes ago, realdancemom said:

I also agree with what you said about the other pairings.  The one exception is that Lex is better than Gaby in genres except ballroom.  Gaby was better in both the AT and Samba.

Yes, I 100% agree that Gaby was better than Lex in the ballroom numbers.  Those are the only numbers where I think she's been better.  In the others I usually find myself sitting there wondering how in the heck she won the show for being so painfully mediocre. To be fair I also think that every time I see her front and center in a group dance too.

[Tikichick]

20 minutes ago, spanana said:

Yes, I 100% agree that Gaby was better than Lex in the ballroom numbers.  Those are the only numbers where I think she's been better.  In the others I usually find myself sitting there wondering how in the heck she won the show for being so painfully mediocre. To be fair I also think that every time I see her front and center in a group dance too.

The dance world is frequently about connections, and even if this isn't World of Dance, this show has operated under that same system.  She does come out of the same Miami pipeline that has produced so many who have done so well on the show, including previous winners.

[displayname]

1 hour ago, realdancemom said:

I would also argue that Allison's dancing to this piece would have been better than most if not all of the other female All-Stars.

Yep.

[khyber]

This season has left me flat and cold. The judges manipulation is so much more blatant than before. 

[helpmerhonda]

Just stopping by to express my weekly disdain for Kiki.

If he wins, I'll...I'll...I'll...I don't know what I'll do, but I'll be super pissed.

[crossover]

55 minutes ago, khyber said:

This season has left me flat and cold. The judges manipulation is so much more blatant than before. 

It's bad this season but nothing like S8.

[realdancemom]

10 minutes ago, crossover said:

It's bad this season but nothing like S8.

And if anybody watched World of Dance, judging was a joke IMHO.

[displayname]

15 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I don't mind lifts, but I hate that the show has become so focused on lifts and that kind of partner dancing. If you aren't experienced at doing lifts, it can be really difficult to master on its own, but it's even worse when there's such a major time constraint and your body is already fatigued from weeks of being on this show.

It's why I wish old choreographers would come back. Wade was always good at showcasing the dancers' technique and movement, and demanded different characters or emotions. Mia, at her best, also did the same, sometimes without a single lift. The new choreographers, like Travis, simply can't seem to resist adding at least three lifts per routine.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

8 hours ago, spanana said:

What is funny to me is that Allison is the dancer that used to get fawned over all the time by Nigel and co. and there has been some sort of sudden transference on Jenna where everyone needs to gush over every thing she does as if she is the best dancer in the history of the show. 

What's even funnier is that the judges didn't really fawn all over Allison until she became an All Star. During her season, the critique she regularly got was, "Allison, you were great as always, but I want to talk anout Ivan." 

[WhineandCheez]

Quote

Just stopping by to express my weekly disdain for Kiki.

HEE!  The only thing  I like about him is his name (a nickname I assume?)  It's cute.

Quote

If he wins, I'll...I'll...I'll...I don't know what I'll do, but I'll be super pissed.

I see it as Lex 90% having it, despite his subpar partnering abilities.  I think Kiki will come in 4th

[crossover]

41 minutes ago, WhineandCheez said:

I see it as Lex 90% having it, despite his subpar partnering abilities.  I think Kiki will come in 4th

Agree.  He's been the pick since auditions.  Didn't know about the Kinjaz connection until a poster mentioned it a couple weeks ago.  Fans of dance crews are very loyal.  With the Travis connection, his solos, group performances, judges constant overpraise or glossing over the bad, plus the Kinjaz connection, he should be a shoe-in.  But wouldn't it be something if Kiki won?  I don't think he will.  The show has already started bringing him down by showing his leap.  People think Mia's duet is for the boys.  That will be a must see.

ETA:  Forgot about the injury.  That really should motivate the fan base.

Edited September 14, 2017 by crossover

[Toaster Strudel]

On 9/11/2017 at 10:40 PM, jcmm said:

Her routines are usually risky and rarely entertaining.

Yes! I never enjoyed any of her routines.

The Mandy Moore disco for the whole group that opened a show to the tune of 'Stayin' Alive', now, THAT was real disco.

What Sanchez does is trash and boring. Just a sequence of meaningless spinning lifts and nondescript fillers in between. She takes pride from the danger of her routines, not their artistry or meaning, and it really shows in the final product.

Edited September 14, 2017 by Toaster Strudel