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S14.E13: Top 6 Perform

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If the Nathan Lanier music hadn't already given it away, I would have know that was Christopher Scott for the opening. I really enjoy his group routines so much more than his duets. His duets tend to be variations on the "troubled couple" or "predatory woman/whimpering man." His group routines are just so much more interesting visually and thematically. Some of his group routines ("Architect of the Mind," "Velocity," "Sand") are my favorite pieces ever on this show.

This format just doesn't let me to care about this kids. I can't get invested in any of them because the season hasn't been long enough to allow it. And they've just been trembling in the shadows of the All-Stars the way this show has stroked and spotlighted them. I haven't always liked the format changes (was never big on the All-Stars), but I was OK with it as long as it meant we got another season. I don't really feel that this season. If it were cancelled, I can't say I would be sad. 

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16 hours ago, realdancemom said:

And if anybody watched World of Dance, judging was a joke IMHO.

Not only the "judging", but the camera work and lighting were actually detrimental to most numbers. 

Talk about a dance show with bad energy, I knew something was seriously wrong simply watching Jabbawockeez and Kinjaz compete.  It was obvious the Twins were set to win, and most everybody understood that going in.  I couldn't find one scrap of evidence onscreen that Nappytabs had any input in the production, couldn't feel their presence whatsoever. 

I found the show infuriating because I felt it was liable to turn off a lot of people to the idea of dance on television.

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For the life of me, I have no idea what people are seeing in Kiki. He's fine, he's okay - but getting rid of Logan before Kiki is just a hot mess. 

Koine and Marko are simply magic for me - honestly, just love the pairing so much. Then to see her with Lex...also amazing. If either Koine or Lex don't win the entire thing, I will know it's rigged. Hoping Lex is okay. I understand the SYTYCD likes showcasing disco, but I've never been overly fond of Sanchez's routines and if he was seriously hurt because she isn't capable of creating choreography that suits the dancers, then she shouldn't be on the show. 

I thought Taylor did well tonight - she's just not the standout that Koine is. 

Kiki can just be gone.

Edited by Lunula · Reason: Spelling
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20 minutes ago, Lunula said:

For the life of me, I have no idea what people are seeing in Kiki. He's fine, he's okay - but getting rid of Logan before Kiki is just a hot mess. 

Koine and Marko are simply magic for me - honestly, just love the pairing so much. Then to see her with Lex...also amazing. If either Koine or Lex don't win the entire thing, I will know it's rigged. Hoping Lex is okay. I understand the SYTYCD likes showcasing disco, but I've never been overly fond of Sanchez's routines and if he was seriously hurt because she isn't capable of creating choreography that suits the dancers, then she shouldn't be on the show. 

I thought Taylor did well tonight - she's just not the standout that Koine is. 

Kiki can just be gone.

Honestly, I don't think it's only the audience who is shortchanged by this shortened, All Star heavy season.  This week's episode revealed to me a side of Kaylee that would have been personally welcome weeks ago -- and I suspect that aspect of growth for her would have been beneficial to her staying in the competition in a normal length season.

Lex and Taylor both would likely have benefited from more time in the hothouse atmosphere of dancing for a television audience weekly as well when it comes to the aspect of giving more of themselves emotionally to performance.  For Taylor in particular it could have been life changing.  As it stands right now she is simply a generic pretty girl with tremendous contemporary technique but no personality in a sea of pretty girls with tremendous contemporary technique, many of whom can emote.

Kiki would have benefited from getting his butt kicked by a few choreographers who aren't often inclined to deal with dancers who can't or won't rise to the challenge -- Sonya Tayeh? Spencer Liff? Mia Michaels?(crossing my fingers)  If he genuinely came to the show to increase his odds of being employed by DWTS and using it as a bootcamp to build his skillset quickly he needed to be challenged by his choreographers and could have benefited immensely by some exacting critiques such as those delivered by Misty Copeland.  

This show is able to field a troupe of All Stars and returning contestant choreographers because we feel a part of their growth, invested in part of what shaped them. That's the reason the audience likes a chance to see them again.  I don't think it's a good idea to allow the AS to completely dominate such a short season in particular.

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41 minutes ago, Lunula said:

If either Koine or Lex don't win the entire thing, I will know it's rigged.

Since auditions, the show has shown that Lex is the chosen one.  So, if Lex doesn't win the entire thing, I will know it WASN'T rigged. 

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3 hours ago, crossover said:

Agree.  He's been the pick since auditions.  Didn't know about the Kinjaz connection until a poster mentioned it a couple weeks ago.  Fans of dance crews are very loyal.  With the Travis connection, his solos, group performances, judges constant overpraise or glossing over the bad, plus the Kinjaz connection, he should be a shoe-in.  But wouldn't it be something if Kiki won?  I don't think he will.  The show has already started bringing him down by showing his leap.  People think Mia's duet is for the boys.  That will be a must see.

ETA:  Forgot about the injury.  That really should motivate the fan base.

I like Kiki, although he's not my favorite, and I don't think he's got a chance of winning.  I'm pretty sure Lex will, although I want Koine to...I actually want her to win enough that it just may motivate me to vote, for the first time in years.

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3 hours ago, Tikichick said:

Not only the "judging", but the camera work and lighting were actually detrimental to most numbers. 

Talk about a dance show with bad energy, I knew something was seriously wrong simply watching Jabbawockeez and Kinjaz compete.  It was obvious the Twins were set to win, and most everybody understood that going in.  I couldn't find one scrap of evidence onscreen that Nappytabs had any input in the production, couldn't feel their presence whatsoever. 

I found the show infuriating because I felt it was liable to turn off a lot of people to the idea of dance on television.

I agree that the whole production was too much.  It was too flashy.  A lot of numbers could cause seizures.  I know Nappytabs was involved with judging the auditions.  I don't know about anything else.  I'll just say that somebody from one of the groups said that they knew that they were cast as fodder when they saw the other ones that made it.

What I didn't like about the judging in WOD is that the audience didn't have any say.  Sometimes, they don't know dance technique but they know what connects with them.  Plus, it causes suspense.  That's what I like about SYTYCD.  Also, even though a lot of the contestants in SYTYCD have professional experience, it still feels like they could use TV exposure.  The ones in WOD already made it.  The only exceptions were the kids.

Is this season really shorter than other seasons?  I know that we started with a top 10 instead of 20.  However, only one contestant left at a time instead of two except this last week.  In other seasons, both a guy and a girl left.  In the case of Street vs. Studio, one from each team left.  So I'm not sure if it's shorter.  I think the reason why we don't really know the contestants as much is because of the time spent with the All-Stars.  The Academy was the worst.  They kept showing All-Star reactions instead of the dance or how the All-Star couldn't choose, etc.

I think Lex will win.  I would like Koine to win but she will probably come in 3rd or 4th.  I just hope Kiki or Taylor don't win.

Speculation was that Mia would choreography for Lex and Logan.  Now, that Logan is not in top four, would the show really use her to choreograph Lex and Kiki?  That would be a waste.  I can see her choreographing for the other three.   I do see Kiki and Jenna doing a ballroom routine with a ballroom specialist.

Edited by realdancemom
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I\m totally smitten with Koine, beautiful dancer, really beautiful. 

So bummed Logan is not in the F4, totally unfair. He's a much better dancer than KiKi, who looked weak , as did Lex for the first time. I also hope he isnt hurt too badly . Both of them were not up to par imho

I loved the opening number with the cubes, so well done. They are all very good dancers. So kudos to them all, I just hope Koine has a slight edge on the competition. 

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34 minutes ago, realdancemom said:

I agree that the whole production was too much.  It was too flashy.  A lot of numbers could cause seizures.  I know Nappytabs was involved with judging the auditions.  I don't know about anything else.  I'll just say that somebody from one of the groups said that they knew that they were cast as fodder when they saw the other ones that made it.

What I didn't like about the judging in WOD is that the audience didn't have any say.  Sometimes, they don't know dance technique but they know what connects with them.  Plus, it causes suspense.  That's what I like about SYTYCD.  Also, even though a lot of the contestants in SYTYCD have professional experience, it still feels like they could use TV exposure.  The ones in WOD already made it.  The only exceptions were the kids.

Is this season really shorter than other seasons?  I know that we started with a top 10 instead of 20.  However, only one contestant left at a time instead of two except this last week.  In other seasons, both a guy and a girl left.  In the case of Street vs. Studio, one from each team left.  So I'm not sure if it's shorter.  I think the reason why we don't really know the contestants as much is because of the time spent with the All-Stars.  The Academy was the worst.  They kept showing All-Star reactions instead of the dance or how the All-Star couldn't choose, etc.

I think Lex will win.  I would like Koine to win but she will probably come in 3rd or 4th.  I just hope Kiki or Taylor don't win.

Speculation was that Mia would choreography for Lex and Logan.  Now, that Logan is not in top four, would the show really use her to choreograph Lex and Kiki?  That would be a waste.  I can see her choreographing for the other three.   I do see Kiki and Jenna doing a ballroom routine with a ballroom specialist.

I heard the very same words about being cast as fodder from someone in a group on WOD.  I would not be one bit surprised if it was from the same group.  The group had somewhat of a tangential tie with SYTYCD, including this season if you catch my drift.   I would have thought a producer credit would have meant more involvement than judging auditions, but that certainly explains why the show had tons of dancers with strong connections to Nappytabs but no sign that they were a part of the creative process in putting the show on the screen.

I also have my hopes up for Koine and fully expect it will be Lex.   It's okay, she doesn't have to have the title to walk away from the show with people ready to hire her.

I was the one who speculated Mia was lured back with the potential of choreographing Lex and Logan.  IMO whatever she is coming back for is not something she's doing on the fly, rather pieces she has been working for a while.  What I would bet $$ on is Lex and Taylor not being unknown quantities to Mia -- that may apply to Logan as well, but seems moot at this point.  Could be a Lex and Taylor number or a final two girls number, I don't know.  My gut tells me her other number will be a large group number, either show opener, AS or Top 10.  I'm leaning to AS or show opener as those options leave her ample room to feature who she wants and hide those she doesn't. 

ETA Just got curious and looked up Koine.  Interestingly enough she hails from Pembroke Pines in south FL.  Interesting.

Edited by Tikichick · Reason: Added factoid

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Miscellaneous thoughts on this episode:

 

Out of all the contestants this season, Koine has impressed me the most. She has the right blend of technique, performance, personality, and versatility.

 

Lex executed all of the samba choreography, but IMO he fell short on the technique and styling, whereas Gaby was actually not bad. I wish we could have seen Gaby do ballroom on her season.

 

Mark K's routine seemed like it would have been better suited for Kaylee/Kiki than Taylor/Logan. But even then, the dance could have used more technical content.

 

Logan is a great contemporary dancer, but I feel he's been the least challenged of the entire Top 10. The two times he got out of his wheelhouse were for a lyrical, happy hip-hop and a jive (a dance which even the stiff, non-dancer male celebs on DWTS can do a decent job).

 

Obviously, there have been much stronger and much more versatile ballroom contestants over the years than Kiki. But after being constantly told for so long that contemporary technique is the superior technique, that contemporary dancers are the ones who are "trained," and seeing contemporary specialists who get watered-down hip-hop and ballroom choreography, I take some gratification in seeing Kiki in the Top 4.

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48 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

I heard the very same words about being cast as fodder from someone in a group on WOD.  I would not be one bit surprised if it was from the same group.  The group had somewhat of a tangential tie with SYTYCD, including this season if you catch my drift.   I would have thought a producer credit would have meant more involvement than judging auditions, but that certainly explains why the show had tons of dancers with strong connections to Nappytabs but no sign that they were a part of the creative process in putting the show on the screen.

I also have my hopes up for Koine and fully expect it will be Lex.   It's okay, she doesn't have to have the title to walk away from the show with people ready to hire her.

I was the one who speculated Mia was lured back with the potential of choreographing Lex and Logan.  IMO whatever she is coming back for is not something she's doing on the fly, rather pieces she has been working for a while.  What I would bet $$ on is Lex and Taylor not being unknown quantities to Mia -- that may apply to Logan as well, but seems moot at this point.  Could be a Lex and Taylor number or a final two girls number, I don't know.  My gut tells me her other number will be a large group number, either show opener, AS or Top 10.  I'm leaning to AS or show opener as those options leave her ample room to feature who she wants and hide those she doesn't. 

ETA Just got curious and looked up Koine.  Interestingly enough she hails from Pembroke Pines in south FL.  Interesting.

I'm not sure if we're talking about the same person but I'm sure that we're talking about the same group.  Another hint is that I live in Utah.  Imagine if you walked in and saw Les Twins, Jabbawockeez, and Kinjaz.

Yes, the dancers don't need to win to be successful.  Allison didn't make Top 4 either.  I'm also guessing that Mia will choreograph for Taylor and Lex.  Also agree that she will either do the opener or AS group.  So we're on the same page.

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1 hour ago, realdancemom said:

I agree that the whole production was too much.  It was too flashy.  A lot of numbers could cause seizures.  I know Nappytabs was involved with judging the auditions.  I don't know about anything else.  I'll just say that somebody from one of the groups said that they knew that they were cast as fodder when they saw the other ones that made it.

This amuses the heck out of me. I watched a couple of episodes of WOD and saw one of the judges go on and on about how they never knew you could tell a story with hip hop and several people said that she must not have ever encountered Nappy Tabs.

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46 minutes ago, realdancemom said:

I'm not sure if we're talking about the same person but I'm sure that we're talking about the same group.  Another hint is that I live in Utah.  Imagine if you walked in and saw Les Twins, Jabbawockeez, and Kinjaz.

Yes, the dancers don't need to win to be successful.  Allison didn't make Top 4 either.  I'm also guessing that Mia will choreograph for Taylor and Lex.  Also agree that she will either do the opener or AS group.  So we're on the same page.

I didn't think we were talking about the same person, but now I don't even think we're talking about the same group.  I'm actually referring to a group involving someone who has choreographed for SYTYCD, including this season.  Interesting that the words I heard quoted from the dancer in the group I know was precisely the same as you heard.  No doubt it was discussed backstage quite a bit.

I really understood what the show was when I watched Jabbawockeez and Kinjaz.  Their performances also telegraphed for me that Nappytabs did not have input regarding camera and lighting direction.

I will be furious if WOD continues and SYTYCD does not.

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6 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

I didn't think we were talking about the same person, but now I don't even think we're talking about the same group.  I'm actually referring to a group involving someone who has choreographed for SYTYCD, including this season.  Interesting that the words I heard quoted from the dancer in the group I know was precisely the same as you heard.  No doubt it was discussed backstage quite a bit.

I really understood what the show was when I watched Jabbawockeez and Kinjaz.  Their performances also telegraphed for me that Nappytabs did not have input regarding camera and lighting direction.

I will be furious if WOD continues and SYTYCD does not.

OK.  We're not talking about the same group.  I thought you mentioned SYTYCD because of a contestant.  The choreographer for that group is more known in DWTS.  If you're talking about a SYTYCD choreographer, then I can guess which group it is.  I like her choreography if it's the one that I'm thinking of.    It is interesting that both groups thought the same thing.  I'm sure others did too.  That's why Fik-Shun didn't seem his happy self either.  He knew what was up.

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23 minutes ago, realdancemom said:

OK.  We're not talking about the same group.  I thought you mentioned SYTYCD because of a contestant.  The choreographer for that group is more known in DWTS.  If you're talking about a SYTYCD choreographer, then I can guess which group it is.  I like her choreography if it's the one that I'm thinking of.    It is interesting that both groups thought the same thing.  I'm sure others did too.  That's why Fik-Shun didn't seem his happy self either.  He knew what was up.

I'm sure you know the group I am talking about -- and I'm sure you looked at their battle and knew who was going through before they danced as well.  She is a good choreographer. 

For Fikshun I took it that he went in knowing the score, but was looking to use the platform to show some range -- which they paid lip service to welcoming, and turned around and gave critique that basically said "but that's not what we expect from you."  

I felt they were using Fikshun, Kinjaz, Jabbawockeez, Super Crew and others I've forgotten right now to bring their fans to the show and expected them to accept the stacked deck right from the start -- and yet bring the ultimate in performance at the same time.  The entire Twins story arc on the show left a very bad taste in my mouth.

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28 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

I'm sure you know the group I am talking about -- and I'm sure you looked at their battle and knew who was going through before they danced as well.  She is a good choreographer. 

For Fikshun I took it that he went in knowing the score, but was looking to use the platform to show some range -- which they paid lip service to welcoming, and turned around and gave critique that basically said "but that's not what we expect from you."  

I felt they were using Fikshun, Kinjaz, Jabbawockeez, Super Crew and others I've forgotten right now to bring their fans to the show and expected them to accept the stacked deck right from the start -- and yet bring the ultimate in performance at the same time.  The entire Twins story arc on the show left a very bad taste in my mouth.

That was a good battle and they did great.   They were both athletic teams with difficult tricks.  Yes, I did know who was going to win even before the battle.  The group that I was talking about never made it past the first round.  They were also montaged.  I wouldn't have minded if Les Twins won if they performed to the best of their abilities.  But when one of them was injured and K & M produced a beautiful piece, then it wasn't right.  It also seemed strange when the popular groups decided to do something different on the battle that they lost.  Just makes you go HMMM!!

I guess we are not on topic but I brought up WOD to show that the judging/scoring on that show is a lot worse than SYTYCD.

Edited by realdancemom
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I agree that I think Koine was the best of the season when you take into account a blend of technique, performance and versatility across genre.  While the disco itself was a mess, I think that was more on Lex than on her.  Koine performed the crap out of just about everything she was given and never once did she fade into the background no matter who she was dancing with on that stage.  Mind you I think Marko is a fabulous partner dancer as well so she had the benefit of a strong partner, but she was one of the few who never really got shown up by her all star.  They were mostly in perfect sync the whole way through.

As for not getting to know the new dancers as well, that is IMO just due to the over focus on the all-stars, particularly those first several weeks.  We spent several weeks where the all-stars were sucking up all the air in the room, so it's not exactly a surprise.

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The expectation that Mia will choreograph for Lex and Taylor is interesting, as they have been the top 2 vote getters, so I get it. but.... Is it me and wishful thinking? Or does anyone feel there's a shift in momentum out there and Koine is riding the crest?  Her last contemporary with Marko while not perfect certainly was moving, beautiful and well executed. I just think Koine by having such a good night while her competitors had a mediocre to poor night might help her for the final flight. She is peaking at just the right time, she is dancing well while others are starting to break down. She really is the pro out there.  I agree with you Spanna, Koine danced the hell out of that disco and in my mind saved it from being a disaster.  Her solo was perhaps a little more conventional, but my gosh it gave me goosebumps, it reminded me of Michelle Kwan skating with such joy and emotion on her signature spiral.  There is something very special in Koine's interpretation and her musicality that is so lovely that I don't want it to end.  Wrong to gush over a contestant, but while I admire Lex's technique and wow moments, I love how Koine fills the spaces.

Edited by Andie1
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Last week Kiki looked like he expected to be going home. And he really should have. The jazz this week should have provided more fire. I suspect that even now Tina Turner could make them look lethargic. I have to wonder if part of the problem is the floor. Kiki hasn't been the only one looking like they were spending too much of their attention on making sure they didn't slip.

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1 hour ago, Terrafamilia said:

I have to wonder if part of the problem is the floor.

Doubtful, when you see Koine killing it in Latin heels.

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1 hour ago, Andie1 said:

  Her solo was perhaps a little more conventional, but my gosh it gave me goosebumps, it reminded me of Michelle Kwan skating with such joy and emotion on her signature spiral.

This is actually a surprisingly accurate comparison for Koine's joy. 

 

It's funny because there were a lot of comparisons last week between Lex's triple tour and doing a triple Lutz/Axel on ice.

Edited by fan94
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1 hour ago, kechara said:

Years ago, on Sytycd. Canada, -a former Canadian champion figure skater, Emmanuel Sandhu competed and did triples a number of times

Yes, we were discussing that on last week's forum.  Emmanuel's triple jump was pretty impressive,  it was a triple axle on ground using a skater technique, swinging the free leg to step up into the rotations.  A tour en L'air is from a standing 5th position, so the technique is different.   

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14 hours ago, Andie1 said:

The expectation that Mia will choreograph for Lex and Taylor is interesting, as they have been the top 2 vote getters, so I get it. but.... Is it me and wishful thinking? Or does anyone feel there's a shift in momentum out there and Koine is riding the crest?  Her last contemporary with Marko while not perfect certainly was moving, beautiful and well executed. I just think Koine by having such a good night while her competitors had a mediocre to poor night might help her for the final flight. She is peaking at just the right time, she is dancing well while others are starting to break down. She really is the pro out there.  I agree with you Spanna, Koine danced the hell out of that disco and in my mind saved it from being a disaster.  Her solo was perhaps a little more conventional, but my gosh it gave me goosebumps, it reminded me of Michelle Kwan skating with such joy and emotion on her signature spiral.  There is something very special in Koine's interpretation and her musicality that is so lovely that I don't want it to end.  Wrong to gush over a contestant, but while I admire Lex's technique and wow moments, I love how Koine fills the spaces.

I have to say, now that I've realized Koine is from south FL I am actually considering a final two girls routine from Mia a possibility.  It has the potential to be interesting in an entirely different way that a final two guys routine with Lex and Kiki would.  Taylor would absolutely be able to tackle it flawlessly and use her long limbs to their full extension.  Koine's technique may not be as clean and she would not be able to bring the long limbs, but she will fully extend and bring purpose and emotion to the movements.  

Especially understanding Kiki cannot execute a leap worthy of most six year old ballet students I've seen I just can't see how Mia could account for his deficiencies with her choreography, nor do I think she would take kindly to the need to do so.    If she's returning to the show in a finale episode, for what may be the series finale episode, I fully expect she will bring A-list routines and expect to have the proper dancers to place the routines on.

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IMO, it's going to Lex/Koine or Lex/Taylor. I'd rather it were Lex/Koine than any other pairing. They're not going to not prop up Lex, and I do think Koine is more favourable to the judges now than Taylor.

 

It just so happens that this is the best pairing left.

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On 9/14/2017 at 10:09 PM, fan94 said:

This is actually a surprisingly accurate comparison for Koine's joy. 

 

It's funny because there were a lot of comparisons last week between Lex's triple tour and doing a triple Lutz/Axel on ice.

And also, Koine's brother was a figure skater.

 

It keeps popping up.

 

...Ice Dance with Mia?

Edited by fan94

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I love their solos. They really are impressive dancers, and I think they relish the chance to dance freely. I think Logan does some incredibly creative moves I haven't seen before, with beauty and control... and then Lex does this THING that makes me say WTF and rewind to watch it again. Not every time, but most of the time. And as a former dancer, I should know what said THING was, but it blows me away when I think I've seen it all, and yet I obviously haven't.

But if Kiki can't even do a single LEAP - are his legs too short for his body? - then he does not deserve to be in the Top 4 over Logan.

PS I love Koine so so much. Verstality, beauty, and  hard work wrapped in a strong little package. I love it when girls don't care what they look like during rehearsal and just throw themselves into anything and willing to do it, no questions. That closet piece was gorgeous.

Edited by marriedaniac · Reason: keyboard sucks (and sticks)
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Forgot to mention (because this is the episode I noticed it on) that when the wavy wall panels are lit up a burnt orange color, and the neon streaks down the middle are bright pink, they look like an homage to bacon.  And wouldn't that make a great dance theme?  Though I still prefer pizza like they did in the next episode!

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