S02.E09: Puzzle Piece

[pezgirl7]

Quote

Jesse gets a breakthrough; Tulip continues to spiral; Cassidy makes a life-changing decision for Denis.

This was probably my least favorite episode. Nothing much happened, and I really don't like the Herr Starr character at all, or his minions. About the only part I liked was Denis playing Non, Je Ne Regrette Rien super loud, and Cassidy yelling at him to turn it down, like a typical father yelling at his son.

[Lantern7]

I had fun. I knew what was going to happen to Starr because I read the comics, and it was still great to see. I mean, I know that is shit you're not supposed to joke about that, but it's Herr Starr . . . hence, it's funny.

Nice that the undead life agrees with Denis. Probably the worst thing Cassidy could have done, but it was fun this week. Also fun to see Jesse acquire cops and hole up for a week. And I totally thought the heavy dude in the mask was "Bart." Ever see the Punisher movie? Remember the Russian? That was Garth Ennis, and it was better than the movie. "BART" being a drone? Meh. But then it kills Harry Connick, Jr., and I'm laughing again . . . not because I hate the guy, but it just feels so random. Like Frankie Muniz popping up in the PSA.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

Jesse should use The Word on Denis to make sure he never goes after him or Tulip.  He could also command him to never attack any humans, except in defense of self or others.

I wonder if Jesse had to order Tulip to wake, or she would sleep forever?  Also, did the cops work for a week without stopping?  Or did they pass out, come to, and go back to guarding Jesse and friends again? How long do the instructions last?

[talktalk]

Could someone explain: what revelation came to Herr Star while he was being anally fxxked? In what puzzle is Jesse the missing piece?  

Besides, what was that weird scene at the restaurant about? Why the butter under her chin? so bizarre!

[ItCouldBeWorse]

1 hour ago, talktalk said:

Besides, what was that weird scene at the restaurant about? Why the butter under her chin? so bizarre!

I was stuck on why a governor's daughter would be on a date with him, and why she would be so compliant.

[AnimeMania]

1 hour ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I was stuck on why a governor's daughter would be on a date with him, and why she would be so compliant.

I was thinking that Herr Star might have been testing his hypothesis that a woman might do anything a man would tell her. Proving that Jesse commanding Tulip to go to sleep wasn't that big of a deal.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

4 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

5 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I was stuck on why a governor's daughter would be on a date with him, and why she would be so compliant.

I was thinking that Herr Star might have been testing his hypothesis that a woman might do anything a man would tell her. Proving that Jesse commanding Tulip to go to sleep wasn't that big of a deal.

That answers the second part, but I still don't understand how he got the much younger daughter of a Governor to go out with him.  Unless the Grail is well-known in Louisiana.

[SoSueMe]

I was glad to see Denis alive(?) and well. Probably a very bad thing, though. Damn kids and their loud music :)

I am totally confused on the Herr Starr stuff. Amusing that he is able to roll with the punches, though.

I would love to get my hands on that apartment with a $50,000. makeover budget. Great bones, as they say. (yeah, I know it's only a set, irl)

[thuganomics85]

I just assumed that Herr and his organization is powerful enough that the Governor of Louisiana was willing to set Herr up with his daughter, and likely gave her a talking to about how she had to appease him no matter what.  Maybe they have something over him or something.  Had no clue where the butter thing was going, but I'm guessing it was some kind of power trip and proving he can make women do his bidding to, after he saw Jesse use The Word to make Tulip go to sleep.

Speaking of Herr, he took the whole "rape fantasy" mix-up much better then I would have expected.  Granted, it seemed to help that he discovered something about Jesse during that moment.  Either way, Hoover might want to keep out of sight for a while, if that was his mistake.  It seems more and more obvious that Featherstone is the brains of that particular duo.

I guess it ended up being a good thing Cassidy turned Denis, since the soldier guy shot him in bed.  But I'm guessing there are going to be issues now with him controlling his urges.

RIP, Harry Connick Jr.!

Jesse and Herr finally meet!  What does he want with him?

[Latverian Diplomat]

16 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

I had fun. I knew what was going to happen to Starr because I read the comics, and it was still great to see. I mean, I know that is shit you're not supposed to joke about that, but it's Herr Starr . . . hence, it's funny.

 

I get where you are coming from, and I admit it was well set up, but well, at the end of the day it's still a rape joke, to me. YMMV.

25 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

I just assumed that Herr and his organization is powerful enough that the Governor of Louisiana was willing to set Herr up with his daughter, and likely gave her a talking to about how she had to appease him no matter what.  

...

RIP, Harry Connick Jr.!

One of the reasons I find Herr Starr tedious, is that he can in fact, abuse his position to ridiculous degrees without consequence. This is of a piece with what we saw this is in his tryouts (which was a well executed bit, but wildly illogical), where he could be sure his "rule-breaking" would be taken as "initiative" or whatever and it was. So, that deal in the restaurant probably needed a little more setup, but I guess the writers feel that "Herr Starr can do whatever he wants, and no one questions it" has been sufficiently established.

I find his minions a little more interesting because they are trying to navigate the capriciousness of the organization (and Starr) in two very different ways.

I don't know much about Harry Connick, Jr. or his work, but I have a vague impression that he's a decent person. So that joke didn't land for me either. Of course, for all I know, he was just happy for a mention.

[tennisgurl]

The Harry Connick Jr reference was so super random. I guess he was the only celebrity they could think of who lives in New Orleans? I think that the joke about HCJ being bombed, much like the scene of Herr Star getting it in the ass is another one of those "...ok" moments that this show likes to have. You know, when the show throws in a scene of line that is Weird, Fucked Up, or Weird AND Fucked up, and yet it usually has nothing to do with the actual plot. You just watch and say "...ok".

I know the Grail is a an evil super corporation bent on world domination and all that, but I have to say, those color coordinated outfits all their people wear are pretty snazzy. Herr Star is still interesting enough to keep my attention, and I like seeing his two underlings try to survive (both literally and corporately) the Grail organization. Are they true believers, or is this just their job? They both seemed ready to accept death, but was Featherstone REALLY ready to die, or was she quickly trying to prove her and her partners worth? A bit of both?

I still really love the story with Cassidy and his recently vamped son Dennis. Things might be all Father and son happiness right now, but I don't see this ending well.

[ganesh]

I feel like more went on this week because it was related to the main plot. I don't think Starr knew god is missing, so if he's actually teaming up with Jesse, it should be interesting. I like the way that Starr is so put upon. He just rolled his eyes when the dudes showed up.

I don't think Jesse should have bothered with the work on Tulip. Just go out for a few drinks. If she hadn't slept in so long that would probably knock her out.

I've been wondering why no one has asked Jesse if it even matters? It's not like people aren't dying or people are more immoral or evil. He's talking about a structure and all that, but is it really? 

[Snookums]

Quote

Also, did the cops work for a week without stopping?  Or did they pass out, come to, and go back to guarding Jesse and friends again? How long do the instructions last?

No, the raid took place, Jesse called the cops (so he could make them his minions/lookouts) because he knew they were coming back that night, and by the next morning, when nothing happened (that they knew about) he gave up and sent them home. Which doesn't explain why the hell their COs or station houses didn't notice multiple officers missing/AWOL, but hey, it's New Orleans and whatever. 

Nice misdirect with BRAD! and Featherstone is great in her obsessive, misguided devotion; I love how she's just "very well sir, prostitutes and we'll blow up Harry Conick Jr." without a blink. (And how Hoover managed to have one job and mess it up--did anyone else notice that the "corporate" card is a Discover, by the way?)

Denis as the World's Oldest Sulky Adolescent was another nice touch; the best bit was him clearly speaking English all along and just being snotty. And I think he's going to love being a vamp, which is going to be hard on Cass. Cassidy hates being a vampire; as he says, drugs barely work, you can't really taste anything, or even get drunk. At the bottom of it you're an abomination. He sees this as a curse. Denis romping around tearing into necks isn't going to sit well with him.

I assume the show wants Tulip and Jesse to be semi-estranged here, but honestly it is BORING TO WATCH. The best bits they've had together all season were the "don't repeat what I'm saying" thing and Jesse's note of Cassidy's hangdog love jones for his girl.  These two don't seem like lovers in a difficult patch, they come across much more as co workers stuck on the same project who don't really like each other at all.

[ghoulina]

I know he's a horrible bastard, but I can't help loving Herr Starr. "What kind of world is it where a woman obeying a man is seen as a super power?" and "I have a date, kill them all". He just makes me laugh. 

Featherstone was quite impressive, with her ability to redirect him and figure out what he wants....well, sorta. *winkwink*

I love the tender moments between Jesse and Tulip. Jesse can become so singular minded that he starts to piss me off. So it's nice to see him caring about others for half a minute. And I'm glad she got some sleep! But here's what I don't get....would she really have woken up on her own? It seems like when Jesse uses the voice, people keep doing what he has commanded them to do until he releases them. 

The quirkiness of the younger Cassidy as old Dennis's father is the best thing about this show. They're trying to prepare for all out war with some blood-thirsty assassins and that damn Dennis just won't turn his music down! I love watching Cass teach him HOW to be a vampire - "slow down when you're drinking your blood. Don't gulp it. There's a good lad." "Thank you, Papa". I could seriously watch an entire episode of those two. 

Bye, Harry Connick Jr. Not really sorry to see you go. 

[ghoulina]

6 hours ago, Snookums said:

No, the raid took place, Jesse called the cops (so he could make them his minions/lookouts) because he knew they were coming back that night, and by the next morning, when nothing happened (that they knew about) he gave up and sent them home.

There was a flash on the screen that said "One Week Later" and THAT'S when Jesse sent the cops packing. So they were working for him for more than one night. 

[Snookums]

Oh, okay, I thought that meant that the raid, then Jesse's Army, BOTH took place a week later.

[festivus]

11 hours ago, ghoulina said:

The quirkiness of the younger Cassidy as old Dennis's father is the best thing about this show. They're trying to prepare for all out war with some blood-thirsty assassins and that damn Dennis just won't turn his music down! I love watching Cass teach him HOW to be a vampire - "slow down when you're drinking your blood. Don't gulp it. There's a good lad." "Thank you, Papa". I could seriously watch an entire episode of those two. 

Agreed. The Cass/Dennis stuff is the best part of the show for me. I'm sure it's going to end horribly.

[rmontro]

On 8/15/2017 at 3:58 PM, thuganomics85 said:

Speaking of Herr, he took the whole "rape fantasy" mix-up much better then I would have expected. 

I interpreted that whole bit as him getting exactly what he asked for.  "No means yes". 

We've seen that Starr is a very dangerous man, I'm not convinced that those "professionals" could have overpowered him against his will.  I wasn't expecting the twist, but I think he got exactly what he was wanting.

I'd have to rewatch the scene where he set it up to see if he specifically asked for a woman, but right now I don't have the patience.  All I remember was him saying something like "I'm having a rape fantasy".

[ganesh]

He didn't specifically ask for women, but when the guys showed up he kind of rolled his eyes, so I don't think he was expecting men. Maybe he figured at that point, eh, why not?

[Spaceman Spiff]

On ‎8‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 10:48 PM, pezgirl7 said:

This was probably my least favorite episode. Nothing much happened, and I really don't like the Herr Starr character at all, or his minions.

Agreed

 

On ‎8‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 3:35 PM, Latverian Diplomat said:

at the end of the day it's still a rape joke, to me.

Yea the constant words of rape and no means yes made my stomach churn.

 

On ‎8‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 4:02 AM, talktalk said:

Besides, what was that weird scene at the restaurant about? Why the butter under her chin? so bizarre!

This was just so weird. I had no clue what it was all about.

And who didn't see that Dennis would be a shit vampire?

Also did anyone else notice that when Tulip went to get the gun from the neighbor, she was handed a black gun, but then she is in the apartment toting around a silver plated gun? Talk about continuity error.

[pezgirl7]

On 8/16/2017 at 0:39 AM, Snookums said:

Denis as the World's Oldest Sulky Adolescent was another nice touch; the best bit was him clearly speaking English all along and just being snotty.

I don't think it was established that he can speak English. He seems to know a few words, like 'Thank you', but that would make sense since he lives in the US and watches a lot of TV. He can probably understand more than he can actually speak. Not that it really matters. I just have a bad feeling that he's going to be uncontrollable, and that Cassidy is going to have to fix his mistake and put him down. :(

[rmontro]

On 8/17/2017 at 11:15 AM, ganesh said:

He didn't specifically ask for women, but when the guys showed up he kind of rolled his eyes, so I don't think he was expecting men. Maybe he figured at that point, eh, why not?

I took that to mean he was role playing.  But it's interesting that it can be interpreted both ways. 

Maybe we'll find out next week, if he takes his underlings to task or not.

[johntfs]

22 hours ago, rmontro said:

I took that to mean he was role playing.  But it's interesting that it can be interpreted both ways. 

Maybe we'll find out next week, if he takes his underlings to task or not.

I have to admit that I'm really hoping we get some version of (spoiler for comics)

Spoiler

"You turned me into a homosexual, you unbelievable prick!"

[rmontro]

Unfortunately, I haven't read the comics, so I have no idea what you are talking about.

I get the impression this "rape fantasy" incident happened in the comics though?  And maybe it was clearer that it wasn't what he planned?  Or was that open to interpretation also?

[johntfs]

6 hours ago, rmontro said:

Unfortunately, I haven't read the comics, so I have no idea what you are talking about.

I get the impression this "rape fantasy" incident happened in the comics though?  And maybe it was clearer that it wasn't what he planned?  Or was that open to interpretation also?

If you really want to know, here goes (spoilers for and from the comic, obviously):

Spoiler

In the comic Starr sends Hoover, the somewhat naive black guy, to get him a hooker, something more than a little outside Hoover's depth.  But he tries, "Excuse me, um, are you ladies... prostitutes?"  The women, who are a touch mean-spirited, give Hoover the contact info of a couple of other people, specifically Bob Glover of "Bob Glover and Freddie Allen, Sexual Investigators" who come to mistakenly understand that Hoover "wants somebody done."  This results in Starr getting raped in an alley by Bob.  While chewing Hoover out, Starr says "You've turned me into a homosexual, you unbelievable prick!"  Though Featherstone that she's "pretty sure it doesn't work that way" and talks Starr out of killing Hoover.

[pasdetrois]

After a bang-up couple of early episodes, this season lost its steam. I feel like we're seeing the same gimmicks over and over, with a few genius moments thrown in (the lady-in-white thug smoothly saving her lover's life while kowtowing smartly to the head bad guy). And can someone please take a Brillo pad to that grimy apartment? Gag.

Edited August 20, 2017 by pasdetrois

[rmontro]

16 hours ago, johntfs said:

If you really want to know, here goes (spoilers for and from the comic, obviously):

Okay, thanks.

14 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

After a bang-up couple of early episodes, this season lost its steam.

I agree.  It started out really strong, but it's gone downhill since they've gotten rid of the Cowboy, and Tulip lost her mind getting preoccupied with death.

[Mr. Sparkle]

21 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

After a bang-up couple of early episodes, this season lost its steam. I feel like we're seeing the same gimmicks over and over, with a few genius moments thrown in (the lady-in-white thug smoothly saving her lover's life while kowtowing smartly to the head bad guy). And can someone please take a Brillo pad to that grimy apartment? Gag.

Yeah, it's more entertaining when they're on the road then when they stop somewhere. The New Orleans arc hasn't done it for me. "Mumbai Sky Tower" was the show at its peak, IMO. 

[johntfs]

7 hours ago, rmontro said:

Tulip lost her mind getting preoccupied with death.

I really don't think it's completely about death for Tulip.  Tulip is a strong, independent woman used to taking care of herself and having agency over her life and choices.  The SoK took all that away from her.  She couldn't fight him, get away from him or even persuade him.  He grabbed her by the throat, lifted her up and showed her she was utterly helpless.  She ultimately had to be saved by two men (Jesse and Cassidy).  I think that sense of powerlessness rather than death, is what's screwing with her.  What Tulip is trying and so far failing to do is to reclaim her sense of power and agency.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

3 hours ago, Superclam said:

  On 8/20/2017 at 9:53 AM, pasdetrois said:

After a bang-up couple of early episodes, this season lost its steam. I feel like we're seeing the same gimmicks over and over, with a few genius moments thrown in (the lady-in-white thug smoothly saving her lover's life while kowtowing smartly to the head bad guy). And can someone please take a Brillo pad to that grimy apartment? Gag.

Would-be lover; she's not interested in him.

[rmontro]

8 hours ago, Superclam said:

Yeah, it's more entertaining when they're on the road then when they stop somewhere. The New Orleans arc hasn't done it for me. "Mumbai Sky Tower" was the show at its peak, IMO. 

Agreed, the New Orleans arc has been disappointing.  I think the best part of it has been the Denis story.

7 hours ago, johntfs said:

I think that sense of powerlessness rather than death, is what's screwing with her.  

Good point.  It's about control.

[Portia]

So it's 2017 and we're still using male rape as a punchline?  Real evolved of you,  Show.  

[johntfs]

8 hours ago, Portia said:

So it's 2017 and we're still using male rape as a punchline?  Real evolved of you,  Show.  

We are when it's a near-iconic bit straight from the original comic.  Basically Herr Starr is a Bad Person.  The show/comic pretty much wants us to be okay with the idea that Bad Things will happen to this Bad Person.  And that it's funny when it does.

[Portia]

14 hours ago, johntfs said:

We are when it's a near-iconic bit straight from the original comic.  Basically Herr Starr is a Bad Person.  The show/comic pretty much wants us to be okay with the idea that Bad Things will happen to this Bad Person.  And that it's funny when it does.

I have to admit, when I realized what was happening to Herr Starr, I giggled for a half-second because yes, he's a Bad Person who was getting his comeuppance. But then I realized I wouldn't have giggled if the sexes had been reversed, and that made me feel less giggle-y about the whole thing.   

[johntfs]

On 8/22/2017 at 3:20 PM, Portia said:

But then I realized I wouldn't have giggled if the sexes had been reversed, and that made me feel less giggle-y about the whole thing.  

What if all the sexes had been reversed?  Nah, probably still not funny.  Also, it was probably funnier in the 90s when it was written.  No specific spoilers, but if the show sticks closely to the comic, this isn't even close to the worst thing that happens to Herr Starr in this story.

Edited August 23, 2017 by johntfs

[Bruinsfan]

On 8/21/2017 at 4:03 PM, Portia said:

So it's 2017 and we're still using male rape as a punchline?  Real evolved of you,  Show.  

The show is based on Garth Ennis' writing. If you cut out all the references to male rape and the effects thereof on someone's masculinity, there's not that much material left.